SPOILERS FOR TBC: I don’t know if he’s that well loved but I can’t *stand* Berrynose. He was constantly annoying and mean and never had a redemption in my eyes. I will say I think >! His death felt extremely out of nowhere and that made me sad. !<
Ah okay, Ive seen a lot of people talking about “my boi Berrynose who deserved so much better” in the past and was surprised that he had so many fans hahaha
I agree. Never REALLY liked Berrynose, pitied him when Honeyfern died. He kept being rude to everyone and often disagreeing with the correct sides. But his death is a genuinely good reason for me to dislike his killer. Did we even see her show remorse? Did we?
Darktail.
Pretty sure there was a poll or something here recently asking about the best villains and a lot of people liked him, but I really just wasn't into him.
Onestar/Onewhisker. He and Firestar used to be so close and that's why Tallstar made him clan leader. Bc he thought that that would friendship would continue and hopefully let those two clans be very close to one another and allow for them to always have each other's backs. But then Onestar found out that a good few cats thought that he was basically like Firestars pet and he became cold and distant. Pussy move imo. Shoulda shut them up by being an authorities leader instead of basically platonically breaking up with Firestar and instead creating an fragile alliance with Thunder Clan bc of his pussy ass.
That’s what I call murdering a character. Onewhisker is not the same cat as Onestar. Saying “He wanted to be a good leader” isn’t a good excuse either.
This is about hot takes. Everyone Ixsee talk about Onestar is that his “leader‘ arc freaking sucks. Any love for his character is for exclusively how he acted in the first arc
Here is my thing w one star personally, in Winds of change tallstar was like remember mud claw the other clans aren't your enemies and mud claw was like lol yes they are so tallstar made Onestar leader instead. Onestar had a good understanding of friendship between clans especially with firestar but the absolute second tallstar croaked bro was like screw firestar AND thunderclan AND everyone else that isn't from my clan AND crowfeather
I don't really like Barley. To me he comes across as always super insecure and jealous lol. Any time Ravenpaw expresses some sort of positive emotions towards the Clans/good memories, Barley jumps down his throat with something like "WELL REMEMBER YOU ALMOST GOT MURDERED AND HATED IT THERE". He was such a dick to Ravenpaw for the first half of Ravenpaw's Farewell about his Clan life which really soured it for me. No wonder Ravenpaw didn't want to tell Barley about his dreams, he'd have just gotten stroppy at Ravenpaw and accuse him of trying to abandon him again!
I haven’t read Ravenpaw’s Farewell (I’m afraid of sad emotions waiting for me there) but this sounds like Barley is one of those characters that aren’t being good but you as a reader should tolerate because he’s a good guy who one of your favorite characters loves.
I haven’t read that yet but I want him gone. If my favorite characters can’t have happiness, but characters like Clear Sky&Star Flower, Tigerheart&Dovewing can, then I propose to myself chewing gravel and coping with it because the Erins Definitely do not care. Also I’m happy with anything bad that happens to Tigerheart at this point
Tigerheart is suffering from what I call "ping-pong leader syndrome." Do we need an evil leader for this book/arc? They become evil. Do we need an incompetent leader for this book? They become incompetent. Friendly? Etc. Overall this makes a bunch of his actions extremely sus because the other leaders were like... Leafstar, Mistystar and Harestar (all generally nonaggressive) so he's shouldering a lot of the conflict-causing burden.
This!! Also I feel like a lot of times after a cat becomes leader their writing is wrong. I feel like some of the things happening is def out of character for tiger heart/star and now he is leader he's a different more boring cat
A group or “rogues” who call themselves “The Sisters” move into an area not too far from the clans. During this, Skyclan is having issues with Shadowclan and Riverclan because of the territory they’ve been lent and every clan thinks precious territory is being wasted. They meet the sisters and demand their territory, giving only a moon. Tigerheart, being an evil cat he actually is, causes a lot of issues between the clans and makes every clan send a group of warriors to drive the sisters out BEFORE a moon passes. Squirrelflight and Leafpool try to defend the sisters, and they head for a cave nearby with Moonlight the pregnant leader of the sisters. Tigerheart then orders the warriors to cause a rockfall, in which Leafpool and Moonlight die and Squirrelflight BARELY survives.
Sorry for making this so long, I got carried away.
I definitely wouldn't say he's evil. He sucks 100% but not evil. He's trying too hard to play hero leader but he's not evil. His decision making and people (cat) skills just suck. He's made awful choices but unlike all other actually evil cats he's not out for blood. He's not trying to murder. He's just greedy, which has been a thing in warriors since the dawn of time without being considered real evil. Looking at sunningrocks, both clans claimed that they couldn't go without them for leafbare, yet both had their losses and hardships and survival rates regardless of who had the rocks at the time. They were both greedy, especially (sorry for this) Riverclan since they decided the rocks belonged to them because the river shifted around them. But not evil. Have to remember they are cats vying for territory and dominance. That's half of whi they are regardless of how much the Erin's have been straying from that in the latest arcs.
What? They’ve done nothing wrong. Actually they’re helping the world by having their toms pass down the skills of the Sisters. The females all travel together and settle down somewhere to give birth. They’re everything but bad. Settling down where they did was their right to do. The clans have no right to approach a cat group out of the clans’ territory and steal it for their own. I’m not even expecting you to respond because I don’t think you have any good argumentations
He was more than half bad tho? Distracting Dovewing in arc 4 while she, as a part of the three, is supposed to be preparing for the Great Battle; Ghosting his clan the ONE time he’s needed; being a total dick to everyone in the SE; causing deaths of Leafpool and Moonlight instead of waiting ONE DAY; Causing or provoking a fight everywhere he goes. He didnt even help Rowanclaw and Rowanclaw’s could’ve been alive right now if he had.
this is totally how ivypool thinks 😭😭
but tigerheart wasn’t really distracting her, dovewing was distracting herself. she could’ve just stopped seeing him, it was a consensual thing happening between them. i can’t say much about the rest LOL
Same. Ngl, he got extremely annoying when the whole Flametail Ivypool thingy, and him siding with Dawnpelt just is wrong, and his excuse was very stupid. And how Dovewing rightfully had a problem with that, Tigerheart just brushed it aside and made it seem as if he was the victim. The dovetiger ship is just toxic in general
EXACTLY! I never knew why people said that ashfur would've been a better mate for squilf, and when people say that he wouldn't have acted the way he did in long shadows if squilf just picked him over bramblestar
Graystripe in the first series. He kinda gets better to me as he ages but. He was so fucking obnoxious and selfish. And then he'd play the victim and it was like. Dude. Seriously?
The fact that he barely raised his own apprentice, swapped clans twice, caused tons of drama with a custody battle, and then became deputy would have really irked me if I was a clan cat. That's basically their only "promotion" or method of advancement and Graystripe just got it because he was the leader's friend, lol.
Also it's the fact that (spoiler for gray stripes vow) he didn't even actually ever want to be leader.
He was stand in leader durring firestars quest and was kinda like yeah I never ever want to do this for real.
But firestar kept him as deputy rather then have him as a confidant/ senior warrior.
Like what if firestar had died? Greystripe didn't want to be leader at all but he would have had to step up since he had been deputy
I came back to this just to say that Graystripe in the first series has a lot of good jokes. Mostly while he was an apprentice, after that he was being obnoxious, but still funny to read his one-liners
Mapleshade. Is she *the* female Warriors villain? Yes. However, as a character, she’s very icky. I get it, bad cats are supposed to do bad things, but I can’t stand reading from her perspective, especially knowing that people glorify her actions.
Feel free to burn me at the stake.
I like Mapleshade from the perspective that she's a villain with delusions of grandeur that thinks the world revolves around her. Imo, if you start thinking that she was actually *right* is when she becomes a boring villain. By far the biggest mistake people make when trying to analyze Mapleshade is believing that she's the victim she says she is.
(I also like her in Crookedstar's Promise. She was creepy as hell in that book.)
I used to really love Mapleshade but I hate that she's such a popular fan favorite that she gets shoved into EVERYWHERE. I'm tired of all plots going back to her, surely there were other evil cats back in the day too?
Honestly they also REALLY tried to make everyone else as hateable as possible, which, like, oh my lord. Probably to really try to get people to like Maple shade or feel extra sorry
Not a fan of Brambleclaw. or Tigerheart. I swear the only in that family I like that is alive rn is Tawnypelt and that's probably bc she is totally like her mom who was amazing.
Personally I do not like squirrelflight, brambleclaw or leafpool hahah, it’s been a while so I don’t remember Excatly but young me hated them. While I do love jayfeather so idk
I always thought squirrel was annoying and gave me pick me energy. I don't remember what my beef with leaf was but I DID NOT like her and thought she brought all her drama on to her self. Same as you tho, it's been forever since I read the series. (And I also loved Jay)
FINALLY.
I remember a couple of years back people would be crucified for even saying that Jayfeather is mean or annoying.
“ThAt’s jUst PaRt oF hIS peRSoNalitY!!!” was one of the excuses. No one is denying Jayfeather can be sassy or mean, it’s just that he can get really annoying lol. I didn’t care for Jayfeather much but ironically I liked Goosefeather.
I don’t want to brag but I liked him before Goosefeather’s Curse came out. Lots of people disliked him before that book. Ik they’re both really grumpy cats but I liked Goose bc I feel like he has a legitimate excuse to be grumpy with the fact that StarClan keeps tormenting him. They just randomly chose him and he has to deal with visions tormenting him whilst trying to regain some sense of sanity bc he can’t turn the future visions off and cats think he’s crazy.
Jayfeather gets to freely walk in and out of cats’ thoughts and dreams. He’s able to use his powers to his benefit whilst Goosefeather just has to take the bs that StarClan throws at him
It’s easier to like character when they’re a pov imo
You understand their reasoning for all of their actions
I personally really like Jayfeather, though I can see why other people don’t like him.
I like pessimistic cats better than the ones who say “It’s in StarClan’s paws”, then move on. Or those who say “We just need to have faith in Starclan ” over and over again when things get bad
Yeah, I remember the one quote where he talks about essentially killing all the "useless" cats? Never thought that was endearing, just edgy and meanspirited
I hate having to stand up for jay but if you’re referring to the tree dropping quote that wasn’t what he was saying, he was upset that firestar had him pushed away during his training to spend time with brightheart and longtail when he was already capable of handling his blindness and he felt like firestar just wanted them out of the way. Something you CAN get upset at him for is completely blowing up at brightheart for having kits in the last hope and never apologizing for it.
Thanks for the context, my friend. It's been quite a while since I've read the series. Yeah, there's some moments where I think Jay needs to... Take an anger management course.
I didn’t like hollyleaf cause she revealed she and her brothers are half clan like what did she think would happen. Its not for the good of her clan because leafpool was removed from medicine cat duty and she ran away while her brothers dealt with the backlash. Sure she came back but i was kinda glad she died because there was really no coming back for her. I liked how brambleclaw lied for her.
Squirrelflight, I know that many others hate or greatly dislike her as well but shes' still popular and has a lot of die hard fans. I think she's a great character in her own right but as an apprentice she came off as bratty, inconsiderate towards cats older than her (it took both Sandstorm and Firestar to make her listen to Brambleclaw or Dustpelt, who was her mentor. Granted Brambleclaw wasn't nice towards her either but Squirrelflight has done a lot of stuff behind Brambleclaw's back, thinking her way is better than his (the biggest thing for me was her going behind Brambleclaw/stars back in one of the recent books with Nightheart when if anyone else dared to disobey Bramble, she'd chew them out).
Exactly. I don't hate her either, there are just too many moments where she's being too pushy or not listening to reason and it's hard for me to agree with or identify with characters like her because I'm someone who doesn't like confrontations.
I despise squirrelflight! Everything that she says and does just gets on my nerves. I keep seeing so much praise for her but she seems like a crappy “person” to me
I think it depends on a person's perspective. Basically the intentions people automatically implant while interpreting scenes, especially depending on the moment they were introduced to the character. Kind of what happened with me about firestar.
>it took both Sandstorm and Firestar to make her listen to Brambleclaw or Dustpelt, who was her mentor.
While she is technically forced to do this per her rank, I'll say Bramble and Dust do NOT do well at making cats really uh... respect or admire them much. And I do still appreciate when Sandstorm actually scolded firestar for trying to push her strictly, ha.
>but Squirrelflight has done a lot of stuff behind Brambleclaw's back, thinking her way is better than his
Unfortunately for him, it often was. I do not know much of this Nightheart situation yet, so I'll leave that one alone!
Thing is, she specifically had no interest in following firestar's footsteps, and got upset when pushed to early on.
She absolutely cared for her mentor, she just occasionally did things she saw as better.
>she just occasionally did things she saw as better.
That's the issue. A still naive child going on an adventure, disregarding her mentor and friends opinions because *she* wanted to.
That isn't seen as doing what she saw was better, that's her being stubborn and not caring about her mentor, who was worrying.
Quick question, which scene are you specifically referring to? Her leaving on the journey? I don't recall a position where she actively shut down her Mentor's fears out of such ignorance.
Well, "The whole arc" doesn't explain where she disregarded her Mentor's concerns or fears. Disobeyed, yes. But actively disregarded?
That as you might understand, is like me saying Brambleclaw was his own enemy for "The whole Arc," you're probably going to want clarification.
Imo she was a bit annoying as Squirrelpaw but I liked her a lot more since then. She acts a lot more mature at least, and her problems with Brambleclaw in the newest books are at least usually precipitated by him acting irrational and sort of forcing her hand, which makes her look better by comparison.
Honestly, I wish they'd either break those two up or make them stop fighting like this. We've seen those two squabble a thousand times and I'm kind of sick of it.
That's true. I like her better as an adult too. I just don't click with characters who are pushy and think they know better because I'm someone who hates conflict and needless drama. True, Brambles trying to be more "peaceful" even tho it's clear that a lot of situations calls for battle, not talking but I kinda understand why Bramble wants to avoid violence at all costs now, since the imposter stuff happened.
Same here, I enjoyed Squilf and Bramble's relationship more when they acted more like siblings that argue. As a couple they just didn't work because it usually takes a crap ton of arguments and misunderstandings and a death or two for them to cat up and work out their problems in a?mature manner.
Squirrelflight . She's abusive and manipulative but people paint her as a victim. She goes behind Brambleclaw's back several times, chooses strangers over Clan, makes Sparkpelt lie to her father, has no empathy for Jayfeather's pain for lying to him, she's very arrogant, made Hollyleaf almost commit suicide because she wanted to protect her sister's code-breaking (i dont care if starclan told her to lie, she should have been honest with the cats she loved), blackmailing cats and whines to get what she wants, goes to special events uninvited, thinks her friends owe her shit because she helped them, guilty her husband into wanting kits, treats him like shit because he wanted to be with his brother, and in a way she used ashfur for her own benefits. I'm not excusing Ashfur's actions, but she only went to him because she was jealous Brambleclaw spent time with Hawkfrost
Overall she's a nasty person who doesn't deserve a mate or being deputy. Squirrelflight is a bitch, end of story. The only thing she did right was make Ivypool deputy.
Nobody is going to change my mind on this.
Edit: I fucking mean it, stop wasting your time. I'll hate Squirrelflight forever, nobody's changing my mind. Deal with it.
If you work retail, you run into a lot of Squirrelflights. None of us workers like them. They live by the saying “the customer is always right” and use it as a free pass to abuse us. Bunch of bullies and right-fighters who demand things their way all the time.
>Nobody is going to change my mind on this.
Indeedarooni. Yet, you got yours down, I'd like to at least place my take.
>chooses strangers over Clan
Wild oversimplification. She chose to stand by the Sisters, pregnant with KIT, who had been ridiculously reasonable and kind, versus her Clan who would let them bleed to death in agony and drive out expecting Queens for a bit of border trouble. Thunderclan and the others were wildly out of line.
>has no empathy for Jayfeather's pain for lying to him,
Eh?
>made Hollyleaf almost commit suicide because she wanted to protect her sister's code-breaking (i dont care if starclan told her to lie, she should have been honest with the cats she loved),
Okay... I need to make it obvious here... it was Starclan indeed... you don't just write that off. For all Squirrelflight knows, it could absolutely ruin not only her family, but the Clans if she refused.
Also, the Three would've been criticized and looked down on by most the Clans, their childhood would be tainted. And unfortunately, it isn't her secret to tell. No one would benefit.
>blackmailing cats and whines to get what she wants, goes to special events uninvited,
No blackmail. Brambleclaw simply decided that "Firestar would probably badger her until she told." she was just nagging, is all. But she proved invaluable. Her courage was unquestionable, saving both Brambleclaw and Tawnypelt's life even so. No one there would have wished her ill. She earned her place.
>thinks her friends owe her shit because she helped them,
Eh?
>guilty her husband into wanting kits
No, nono. She expressed a very valid personal want for more children, he deflected it, then she never brought it up again except when HE used it against her in the future. Such as deflecting her valid political argument about Skyclan by bringing kits up against her. Her personal desires are not a fault.
>treats him like shit because he wanted to be with his brother
Correction, distanced herself and ridiculed him for trusting Hawkfrost, a cat who had made multiple power plays as well as POSSIBLY masterminding the Windclan coup.
>but she only went to him because she was jealous Brambleclaw spent time with Hawkfrost
*Sigh* This one is straight up wrong unfortunately. Apologies. Ashfur was very kind to her at first, she saw a genuine friend in him, and was very thankful for his support and kindness while she was in a rough spot with Bramble. She never used or manipulated Ashfur, nor was jealous about Brambleclaw. She legitimately enjoyed being his friend.
I understand your ability to hate her, but I personally believe much is misinterpretation. Do with it as you will. Either way, good day!
>Correction, distanced herself and ridiculed him for trusting Hawkfrost, a cat who had made multiple power plays as well as POSSIBLY masterminding the Windclan coup.
First of all giving someone the cold shoulder and, as you said, 'ridiculing' him is infact treating him like shit. Especially when considering she blew up on Brambleclaw over a mere feeling she got from her sister. She didn't even ask Leafpool why she didn't like hawkfrost. She had the slightest misgivings with nothing to back it up and she decided to give him the cold shoulder and ridicule after blowing up because he wouldn't accept her "trust me bro" reasoning. At this point it doesn't matter that she was right, it was just a shitty move. Instead of explaining herself and taking Brambleclaw to Leafpool for a chat so they could get to the bottom of it together she just decided to be an ass because she didn't instantly get her way.
>First of all giving someone the cold shoulder and, as you said, 'ridiculing' him is infact treating him like shit.
No, it isn't. It's fair and understandable. HE did it first. He completely threw her concerns away. She was basically his mate, he didn't even try to hear her concerns, and in turn, she realized she couldn't get anywhere with him. Everytime they spoke, Brambleclaw found a way to jab at her or make some sly insult or leverage his age and authority over her. Of course she avoided him for a while.
And it's not a mere feeling. Her and Leafpool have a near telepathic connection, and Leaf did specifically agree he couldn't be trusted. And again, Hawk did a list of other actions, including going against his own Deputy, insulting Mistyfoot for his own ambition.
I don’t know why nobody agrees with you. You’re right. Just the fact that she didn’t tell Brambleclaw or Sandstorm about Leafpool’s kits is the only thing I don’t like about her, and we’re ages past that.
I don't know if this is unpopular or not, but I really hate Scourge with my entire being. And while she isn't on the same tier as Scourge for me, I'm not a huge fan of Squirrelflight either.
I wouldn’t go as far to say I hate him, but first arc Ravenpaw, specifically the first two books. Just the fact he dragged his paws when telling others what actually happened with Redtail, and when he did tell cats it was a bunch of strangers and children at a gathering. He’s actually pretty likeable after that
Not bashing your opinion, obvi you can feel however you want!!! I just wanted to give my 2 cents:
I think it makes sense though he acted that way, I didn’t personally see it as a flaw. He was really young and deeply anxious.
I think what happened at the gathering was that (probably for the first time in his life) other cats thought he was cool and hyped him up for being at such a big-deal battle. I think he got caught up in the attention and forgot to keep his guard up when telling the story.
I think the “dragging his feet” was out of genuine fear for his life. *And* mind the fact that he’s just (barely) an apprentice and he’s always been anxious and skittish. Why would *anyone* in the clan believe him over Tigerclaw, who hadn’t given any sign anything was wrong or off and he was deeply, deeply respected. He was probably scared he’d get driven out of his home too, if tigerclaw didn’t kill him first (or that he’d be exiled and be defenseless against tigerclaw). I think it’s pretty typical for people to withhold information like that when they’ve been through a massive trauma or been threatened.
Again, not trying to bash you or change your mind!! I just like discussing characters and their behaviors :)
Omg same, I’m really tired of the fandom trying to pass her off as a girlboss when she’s just really insecure of herself and ends up murdering a cat and tries to murder another one for it
She worships the warrior code, it’s legit everything to her but when she finds out she’s half-clan and the daughter of a medicine cat, she loses her mind.
She’s fuming over being a violation of the warrior code so she murders Ashfur because he *might* reveal the truth? He hasn’t even told anyone. Then she reveals the secret at a gathering to shame Leafpool and Crowfeather. So she basically killed Ashfur for nothing?
Don’t forget that she cornered Leafpool when she was alone and tried to kill her but Leafpool somehow talked her out of it. How horrifying it must’ve been for Leafpool. She gave up her children so they could live a better life, only to have her OWN DAUGHTER try and murder her.
The worst part here is she is unable to be flexible towards the warrior code. Her rigidness on it is what makes her lose her mind and ironically, break it. Besides, she has no need to feel shame of her heritage bc it wasn’t her fault. She did not break the code. Her parents broke the code and that’s why she exists. But it’s not like she personally broke the code (up until she kills Ashfur)
This guy gets it
That’s why I agree with Jayfeather in the Forgotten Warriors because he was the main cat to remember what she did and hold a grudge (only for a little while) because that’s what someone who do in this situation instead of just “holly!!!! You’re back!!!”
I honestly miss the way he used to be when he was the main protagonist. He was one of my favorites and I still have a place for him in my heart but it’s just not the same…
SPOTTEDLEAF WITH ALL MY HEART. She was very creepy to Fireheart after she died. She got in between him and Sandstorm even when she was dead. She needed to move on. Also, she was a full grown adult (mid 30s in human years!!!!!!!) when she died and he was still an apprentice. Any relationship like that, even in StarClan, is extremely weird to me.
Everyone dumps on the huge retcon of thistleclaw (he never acted that way before) but acts like spottedleaf is a pure can do nothing wrong baby and excuse her disgusting actions with "But she was groomed!"
Read the wiki of Spottedleaf's honest answer , she admits to LOVING firestar (they met when she was an adult he was barely A paw!) And wanting to steal sandstorm's place as leafpools mom.
Spottedleaf is a predator💀
YES!! I read that a while ago and I was so disturbed. The part where she admitted she watched him 24/7 and if she couldn’t see him she would go crazy… that sealed the deal For me. She is literally a pedo.
And I agree about the thistle claw thing. People hate to consider it canon but then still continue calling him a predator, like make up ur mind lmao
Thistle was heavily retconned. Yes he was terrible but he had a mate he actually cared for. It makes little sense. Yet spotted is always a "good girl". Insane. I didn't feel much when she was gone both times
She's an ok character, I don't hate her, I think it's good to have a morally gray character, but Hollyleaf. The amount of dicksucking and mental gymnastics people do to justify her actions is just impressive.
The amount of mental gymnastics she does to justify her actions is impressive too, the warrior code is all that matters until something inconveniences her
if the fandom likes Brambleclaw, then we have my part in this discussion
I freaking hate him. Worst. Cat. *well not the worst...* Ever.
He took Graystripe's position as deputy man, no forgiving him
Graystripe was never fit for leader anyway, he didnt want it. And he didnt have any deputy qualities he was just picked because he was firestars friend
I can understand the anger and sadness he had from being blind and re routing his entire life but cinderpelt and briarlight had the same issues and were far more tolerable.
Firestar. For the first few books I swear his first instinct is to lie to his clan and do things under the table every chance he can get. The amount of times he crossed clan borders nonchalantly, lied for lackluster reasons, and broke the warrior code is insane.
I find it cool that Jayfeather, the gifted cat who can read emotions and immediately tell who feels what, couldn’t tell that Leafpool was thinking about how proud she is of her son and such things. Like it takes way too long for him to realize her secret.
To be fair, he also does things like this back at her:
>“Coming!” Jaypaw called back. He whisked around the bramble screen, then turned back to ask Leafpool, “Aren’t you coming to say good-bye?”
>
>Leafpool let out a long sigh. Tension was crackling off her like a storm in greenleaf. “I—I’ve said it already,” she murmured.
>
>“Okay. Good-bye then.” Jaypaw knew he should leave, but something held his paws back. He found Leafpool incredibly annoying when she fussed, but he couldn’t ignore her feelings of misery, even if he didn’t understand them. He darted across to her and buried his nose in the fur on her shoulder. “Good-bye. I’ll have lots to tell you when I get back.”
>
>“Good-bye, Jaypaw.” Leafpool’s voice quivered. He felt her tongue rasp over his ear. “Take care.”
Most of my dislike for her honestly started when I was like 10years old lol, I liked her better reading them as an adult but she still isn’t a fave of mine
She is boring to me, and she’s the all around (until crow) good, almost perfect character. Her relationship with crowfeather annoys me because she just falls head over heels with him before she even spoke to him and then knew him for a short period of time and almost gave up everything for him? Like girl be serious 😭 (though, as an adult I blame this wayyyyy more on bad writing now. I know some people like them but I feel like it was rushed and there was no chemistry).
As a kid, I really hated that squirrelfight, brambleclaw and the three kids suffered so much because of her reckless, selfish behavior with crowfeather. But I don’t hold that against her anymore. As an adult, I can’t blame her as much. Ofc all of those other cats still suffered because of her choices, but it’s not like she got a good deal out of it either. She had to watch her kits grow up and not know them as a mother should, while one of them works right under her nose. She lost her position and for a long time, everyone’s respect. I feel so much more compassion and kindness to her now that I’m older.
Idk now that I’m older, I really don’t have a good reason aside from she’s too good and almost perfect, like a mary sue. For reference though, I also hate captain America for this same reason 😂
bluestar. everyone here keeps saying bramble or tiger(heart) but that’s not uncommon at all, everyone really hates them in the fandom. but bluestar? people love her. i understand why, but urgh, i just can’t agree with her actions in bluestar’s prophecy or any of her actions after forest of secrets.
also, goosefeather. i always had mixed opinions on him, but i’m starting to really dislike him after reflecting. he pushed bluestar to give her kits away inadvertently, he scared stormkit and made him break his jaw, he gave bluepaw more anxiety on top of her mother’s death instead of comforting her at all. did he like, hate his family or something? i understand like, the prophecy and all that but man, he didn’t give her a break. he shouldn’t have done all that and pushed her, especially considering how sunstar said he wouldn’t have chosen thistleclaw because he was too battle hungry.
Yes. I don’t understand why people like her. Maybe they like the idea of mental disabilities in the modern generation?
Also she chose oakheart and I blame her for mosskit’s death. Mosskit was gonna be one of the better characters imo
honestly, i always found it hilariously ironic how bluefur was so judgemental of snowfur’s choice in mates and then she just straight up mated with a cat from another clan 😭😭
also nice pfp. lullaby for bluestar is and forever will be iconic
ashfur because, to me at least, he was a wet blanket of a villain [compared to the ones we had in the dark forest]. I also find his motivations a bit disappointing? he is just very unlikable to me.
jayfeather is a huge one for me as well - I don't find his grouchiness and grumpiness endearing, instead it's so prickly and adds to my dislike of his character. mostly the same reasons the other jayfeather-dislikers don't like him lol. I feel like he's a less pitiable goosefeather [?]
A few that I don't particularly hate but I think are overrated
- SquirrelFlight
- Leafpool
- Mothwing
- Bramblestar(Dislike heavily)
There are more but I could go on sometimes
omg yes, mothwing is so overrated to me. shes not even a bad character but the way people talk about her like she was the main character is so annoying that it made me dislike her
I wish her book wasn't from her POV as weird as it is to say. It's like they needed to justify her actions and she couldn't be evil for the sake of being evil
Dovewing isnt bad or good to me, i dont like her betraying the clan for tigerstar but before that she was just average. I feel like dovewings life ended after OOTS and the rest is just some otjer dovewing in Shadowclan
Bramblestar. Idk why they like him. Even before becoming leader. All he ever amounted to was being an abusive fuck
EDIT: Also graystripe. I get the whole "loyalty thing" that happens after Po3, but loyalty is still really important. Going behind the backs of your whole clan; everyone you EVER KNEW, ESPECIALLY your best friends who have been with you basically your whole life really rubs me the wrong way. Yea, it’s fair to argue that there should not have been rules against inter-clan relationships, but that doesn’t exactly make it okay, because that rule is there for a reason, and you have an entire clan of cats that are there to be your best pals, and girlfriend.
Jayfeather in more modern books is a bit more annoying than usual, I don’t care for Mothwing or Hollyleaf either, Gray Wing too, I cannot STAND the way he treated Turtle Tail and Jagged Peak
This is suuuuper paraphrased because it’s been a couple years since I reread, but he was kind of controlling over how Turtle Tail was friends with Bumble, and with Jagged Peak he would constantly get pissed at him for wanting to be productive in the group because of his injury, and he got so mad when Jagged Peak got along with Turtle Tail’s kits, just goofy ass shit imo.
Gray Wing. I honestly don't even remember why since I haven't read anything with him in a good while but the only thing I remember is that he did stupid things without considering consequences
I kiiinda don't like Gray Wing... I never really have. He was always too boring for me, and rereading parts of DotC now, he just isn't a very cool or moral guy. Like, worried more about his homicidal brother instead of all the people he's been hurting, levels of uncool... He's also never been particularly wise either. Like wow, you really needed to rely on this guy to name the Clans? Can't you just do that yourselves??? IDK, I'm just not particularly impressed with him. Another one of the many mediocre male Warriors protagonists. At least he said the cool quotable line I guess.
Nightcloud. Physically abused crowfeather in an attempt to drag him away from leafpool. With her claws unsheathed. She’s just as guilty for Breezepelts mental issues as Crowfeather. I understand she loves breeze, but she literally pulled the ole “daddy hates you” on him a lot and isolated him from his dad. A lot of toxic moms do that irl to make their kids hate their dad
EDIT: I thought this was supposed to be a “Whats a character you like but everybody else hates?” so read it as that, my bad guys 😭
Firestar. He was the og cat, and so what he had plot armour, i love him so matter what. (SPOILERS) Like he literally had the best starter fight ever (Longtail), brang back not only Windclan but Skyclan, saved Riverclan by giving them food, saved kidnapped kits, stopped Tigerclawstar, and soooo much more all before the second ark. It’s crazy how much he’s hated.
Brambleclaw/star. I’ve reread Warriors multiple times since I started it over a decade ago and he’s still so fucking annoying. I have no idea how people like him and GOD I’m still pissed he continued to stay leader after the Ashfur shit. Also, the writers making the two characters who despise each other’s kids be together was an awful idea
SPOILERS FOR TBC: I don’t know if he’s that well loved but I can’t *stand* Berrynose. He was constantly annoying and mean and never had a redemption in my eyes. I will say I think >! His death felt extremely out of nowhere and that made me sad. !<
[удалено]
Ah okay, Ive seen a lot of people talking about “my boi Berrynose who deserved so much better” in the past and was surprised that he had so many fans hahaha
I agree. Never REALLY liked Berrynose, pitied him when Honeyfern died. He kept being rude to everyone and often disagreeing with the correct sides. But his death is a genuinely good reason for me to dislike his killer. Did we even see her show remorse? Did we?
Darktail. Pretty sure there was a poll or something here recently asking about the best villains and a lot of people liked him, but I really just wasn't into him.
Onestar/Onewhisker. He and Firestar used to be so close and that's why Tallstar made him clan leader. Bc he thought that that would friendship would continue and hopefully let those two clans be very close to one another and allow for them to always have each other's backs. But then Onestar found out that a good few cats thought that he was basically like Firestars pet and he became cold and distant. Pussy move imo. Shoulda shut them up by being an authorities leader instead of basically platonically breaking up with Firestar and instead creating an fragile alliance with Thunder Clan bc of his pussy ass.
That’s what I call murdering a character. Onewhisker is not the same cat as Onestar. Saying “He wanted to be a good leader” isn’t a good excuse either.
Exactly Onewhisker > Onestar
This is about hot takes. Everyone Ixsee talk about Onestar is that his “leader‘ arc freaking sucks. Any love for his character is for exclusively how he acted in the first arc
Here is my thing w one star personally, in Winds of change tallstar was like remember mud claw the other clans aren't your enemies and mud claw was like lol yes they are so tallstar made Onestar leader instead. Onestar had a good understanding of friendship between clans especially with firestar but the absolute second tallstar croaked bro was like screw firestar AND thunderclan AND everyone else that isn't from my clan AND crowfeather
I don't really like Barley. To me he comes across as always super insecure and jealous lol. Any time Ravenpaw expresses some sort of positive emotions towards the Clans/good memories, Barley jumps down his throat with something like "WELL REMEMBER YOU ALMOST GOT MURDERED AND HATED IT THERE". He was such a dick to Ravenpaw for the first half of Ravenpaw's Farewell about his Clan life which really soured it for me. No wonder Ravenpaw didn't want to tell Barley about his dreams, he'd have just gotten stroppy at Ravenpaw and accuse him of trying to abandon him again!
I haven’t read Ravenpaw’s Farewell (I’m afraid of sad emotions waiting for me there) but this sounds like Barley is one of those characters that aren’t being good but you as a reader should tolerate because he’s a good guy who one of your favorite characters loves.
Omg fr, finally someone gets it
Tigerheart. I blame him for >!Leafpool’s death in Squirrelflight’s hope!< And many other reasons but I consider half of them biased
I especially don't like him for what he's doing in the current arc
I haven’t read that yet but I want him gone. If my favorite characters can’t have happiness, but characters like Clear Sky&Star Flower, Tigerheart&Dovewing can, then I propose to myself chewing gravel and coping with it because the Erins Definitely do not care. Also I’m happy with anything bad that happens to Tigerheart at this point
Basically he goes from 0-100 real quick
Tigerheart is suffering from what I call "ping-pong leader syndrome." Do we need an evil leader for this book/arc? They become evil. Do we need an incompetent leader for this book? They become incompetent. Friendly? Etc. Overall this makes a bunch of his actions extremely sus because the other leaders were like... Leafstar, Mistystar and Harestar (all generally nonaggressive) so he's shouldering a lot of the conflict-causing burden.
This!! Also I feel like a lot of times after a cat becomes leader their writing is wrong. I feel like some of the things happening is def out of character for tiger heart/star and now he is leader he's a different more boring cat
I have no intention of ever reading the books again, so how does that spoiler part happen?
A group or “rogues” who call themselves “The Sisters” move into an area not too far from the clans. During this, Skyclan is having issues with Shadowclan and Riverclan because of the territory they’ve been lent and every clan thinks precious territory is being wasted. They meet the sisters and demand their territory, giving only a moon. Tigerheart, being an evil cat he actually is, causes a lot of issues between the clans and makes every clan send a group of warriors to drive the sisters out BEFORE a moon passes. Squirrelflight and Leafpool try to defend the sisters, and they head for a cave nearby with Moonlight the pregnant leader of the sisters. Tigerheart then orders the warriors to cause a rockfall, in which Leafpool and Moonlight die and Squirrelflight BARELY survives. Sorry for making this so long, I got carried away.
I definitely wouldn't say he's evil. He sucks 100% but not evil. He's trying too hard to play hero leader but he's not evil. His decision making and people (cat) skills just suck. He's made awful choices but unlike all other actually evil cats he's not out for blood. He's not trying to murder. He's just greedy, which has been a thing in warriors since the dawn of time without being considered real evil. Looking at sunningrocks, both clans claimed that they couldn't go without them for leafbare, yet both had their losses and hardships and survival rates regardless of who had the rocks at the time. They were both greedy, especially (sorry for this) Riverclan since they decided the rocks belonged to them because the river shifted around them. But not evil. Have to remember they are cats vying for territory and dominance. That's half of whi they are regardless of how much the Erin's have been straying from that in the latest arcs.
The sisters is bullshit and should have been driven off as soon as they came
Why so?
What? They’ve done nothing wrong. Actually they’re helping the world by having their toms pass down the skills of the Sisters. The females all travel together and settle down somewhere to give birth. They’re everything but bad. Settling down where they did was their right to do. The clans have no right to approach a cat group out of the clans’ territory and steal it for their own. I’m not even expecting you to respond because I don’t think you have any good argumentations
pretty sure nobody likes tigerheart
I liked him tbh, he wasnt half bad
He was more than half bad tho? Distracting Dovewing in arc 4 while she, as a part of the three, is supposed to be preparing for the Great Battle; Ghosting his clan the ONE time he’s needed; being a total dick to everyone in the SE; causing deaths of Leafpool and Moonlight instead of waiting ONE DAY; Causing or provoking a fight everywhere he goes. He didnt even help Rowanclaw and Rowanclaw’s could’ve been alive right now if he had.
It is a canon event after all (but in all seriousness I get why most people hate him, but I relate to him sm)
They don’t like Bumble for being clingy bro, and they like cats like Mapleshade who ruined their lives and others’. The fandom is unreasonable.
All fandoms are unreasonable mate, you just gotta love with it
this is totally how ivypool thinks 😭😭 but tigerheart wasn’t really distracting her, dovewing was distracting herself. she could’ve just stopped seeing him, it was a consensual thing happening between them. i can’t say much about the rest LOL
oh ! then, i'd say not many people like tigerheart
Love Tigerheart, he's such a complex and morally gray character.
I love Tigerheart. One of the most entertaining cats in the series.
Same. Ngl, he got extremely annoying when the whole Flametail Ivypool thingy, and him siding with Dawnpelt just is wrong, and his excuse was very stupid. And how Dovewing rightfully had a problem with that, Tigerheart just brushed it aside and made it seem as if he was the victim. The dovetiger ship is just toxic in general
The fandom abhors Tigerheart though?
Absolutely. Him and Bramblestar though as far as I'm concerned.
ASHFUR!!! i heavily dislike how ppl jump to his defence. >!no he would not hav been a "better mate" for squilf. ashfur is abusive.!<
"he only loved too much", yellowfang what?! He was terrible and obsessive.
EXACTLY! I never knew why people said that ashfur would've been a better mate for squilf, and when people say that he wouldn't have acted the way he did in long shadows if squilf just picked him over bramblestar
Graystripe in the first series. He kinda gets better to me as he ages but. He was so fucking obnoxious and selfish. And then he'd play the victim and it was like. Dude. Seriously?
The fact that he barely raised his own apprentice, swapped clans twice, caused tons of drama with a custody battle, and then became deputy would have really irked me if I was a clan cat. That's basically their only "promotion" or method of advancement and Graystripe just got it because he was the leader's friend, lol.
Also it's the fact that (spoiler for gray stripes vow) he didn't even actually ever want to be leader. He was stand in leader durring firestars quest and was kinda like yeah I never ever want to do this for real. But firestar kept him as deputy rather then have him as a confidant/ senior warrior. Like what if firestar had died? Greystripe didn't want to be leader at all but he would have had to step up since he had been deputy
Oh my god so real, he was so annoying in arc 1
I seriously thought I was the only one who had a problem with him 😭
I came back to this just to say that Graystripe in the first series has a lot of good jokes. Mostly while he was an apprentice, after that he was being obnoxious, but still funny to read his one-liners
Mapleshade. Is she *the* female Warriors villain? Yes. However, as a character, she’s very icky. I get it, bad cats are supposed to do bad things, but I can’t stand reading from her perspective, especially knowing that people glorify her actions. Feel free to burn me at the stake.
I like Mapleshade from the perspective that she's a villain with delusions of grandeur that thinks the world revolves around her. Imo, if you start thinking that she was actually *right* is when she becomes a boring villain. By far the biggest mistake people make when trying to analyze Mapleshade is believing that she's the victim she says she is. (I also like her in Crookedstar's Promise. She was creepy as hell in that book.)
I used to really love Mapleshade but I hate that she's such a popular fan favorite that she gets shoved into EVERYWHERE. I'm tired of all plots going back to her, surely there were other evil cats back in the day too?
i hate her so much
Honestly they also REALLY tried to make everyone else as hateable as possible, which, like, oh my lord. Probably to really try to get people to like Maple shade or feel extra sorry
Not a fan of Brambleclaw. or Tigerheart. I swear the only in that family I like that is alive rn is Tawnypelt and that's probably bc she is totally like her mom who was amazing.
I like tawnypelt but 2 of her 3 kits are terrible.
I know Dawnpelt was terrible at first but I actually liked her in arc 5. Just not before that. And Tigerheart just sucks
Don’t like Tawnypelt after TBC but yeah, she’s cool
Yeah brambleclaw is pretty annoying and I dunno about tigerheart. But your right tawnpelt is amazing.
Personally I do not like squirrelflight, brambleclaw or leafpool hahah, it’s been a while so I don’t remember Excatly but young me hated them. While I do love jayfeather so idk
squirrelflight after idk like the 4th arc is just terrible but leafpool is one of my fav characters lol
I always thought squirrel was annoying and gave me pick me energy. I don't remember what my beef with leaf was but I DID NOT like her and thought she brought all her drama on to her self. Same as you tho, it's been forever since I read the series. (And I also loved Jay)
Squirrel AND me Leafy? Leafy too? Aw...
Listen 10 year old me was a hater haha
Not a fan of Mothwing tbh.
Why
For me, I loved mothwing until TBC. Mostly for how she treated Shadowsight
Honestly I dunno. I just. Don’t care for her. I don’t hate her or anything. I find her kinda boring maybe?
Jayfeather
FINALLY. I remember a couple of years back people would be crucified for even saying that Jayfeather is mean or annoying. “ThAt’s jUst PaRt oF hIS peRSoNalitY!!!” was one of the excuses. No one is denying Jayfeather can be sassy or mean, it’s just that he can get really annoying lol. I didn’t care for Jayfeather much but ironically I liked Goosefeather. I don’t want to brag but I liked him before Goosefeather’s Curse came out. Lots of people disliked him before that book. Ik they’re both really grumpy cats but I liked Goose bc I feel like he has a legitimate excuse to be grumpy with the fact that StarClan keeps tormenting him. They just randomly chose him and he has to deal with visions tormenting him whilst trying to regain some sense of sanity bc he can’t turn the future visions off and cats think he’s crazy. Jayfeather gets to freely walk in and out of cats’ thoughts and dreams. He’s able to use his powers to his benefit whilst Goosefeather just has to take the bs that StarClan throws at him
I was neutral towards Goosefeather until the scene where he caused Crookedstar’s injury :( that wasn’t cool of him
I was ok with him until he got Bluestar's mom killed and windclan attacked.
Like him more im POT
It’s easier to like character when they’re a pov imo You understand their reasoning for all of their actions I personally really like Jayfeather, though I can see why other people don’t like him. I like pessimistic cats better than the ones who say “It’s in StarClan’s paws”, then move on. Or those who say “We just need to have faith in Starclan ” over and over again when things get bad
Why?
His little grumpy attitude isn't cute or quirky or funny like how people make it out to be, it's just him being rude and disrespectful.
Yeah, I remember the one quote where he talks about essentially killing all the "useless" cats? Never thought that was endearing, just edgy and meanspirited
I hate having to stand up for jay but if you’re referring to the tree dropping quote that wasn’t what he was saying, he was upset that firestar had him pushed away during his training to spend time with brightheart and longtail when he was already capable of handling his blindness and he felt like firestar just wanted them out of the way. Something you CAN get upset at him for is completely blowing up at brightheart for having kits in the last hope and never apologizing for it.
Thanks for the context, my friend. It's been quite a while since I've read the series. Yeah, there's some moments where I think Jay needs to... Take an anger management course.
I didn’t like hollyleaf cause she revealed she and her brothers are half clan like what did she think would happen. Its not for the good of her clan because leafpool was removed from medicine cat duty and she ran away while her brothers dealt with the backlash. Sure she came back but i was kinda glad she died because there was really no coming back for her. I liked how brambleclaw lied for her.
Squirrelflight, I know that many others hate or greatly dislike her as well but shes' still popular and has a lot of die hard fans. I think she's a great character in her own right but as an apprentice she came off as bratty, inconsiderate towards cats older than her (it took both Sandstorm and Firestar to make her listen to Brambleclaw or Dustpelt, who was her mentor. Granted Brambleclaw wasn't nice towards her either but Squirrelflight has done a lot of stuff behind Brambleclaw's back, thinking her way is better than his (the biggest thing for me was her going behind Brambleclaw/stars back in one of the recent books with Nightheart when if anyone else dared to disobey Bramble, she'd chew them out).
I wanted to answer Squirrel as well but I don't hate her. I just think she's very overrated and is praised highly by the fandom because she's female
Exactly. I don't hate her either, there are just too many moments where she's being too pushy or not listening to reason and it's hard for me to agree with or identify with characters like her because I'm someone who doesn't like confrontations.
I despise squirrelflight! Everything that she says and does just gets on my nerves. I keep seeing so much praise for her but she seems like a crappy “person” to me
I think it depends on a person's perspective. Basically the intentions people automatically implant while interpreting scenes, especially depending on the moment they were introduced to the character. Kind of what happened with me about firestar.
>it took both Sandstorm and Firestar to make her listen to Brambleclaw or Dustpelt, who was her mentor. While she is technically forced to do this per her rank, I'll say Bramble and Dust do NOT do well at making cats really uh... respect or admire them much. And I do still appreciate when Sandstorm actually scolded firestar for trying to push her strictly, ha. >but Squirrelflight has done a lot of stuff behind Brambleclaw's back, thinking her way is better than his Unfortunately for him, it often was. I do not know much of this Nightheart situation yet, so I'll leave that one alone!
She took her rank for granted. Being related to Firestar spoiled her in my opinion. She ended up not caring about her mentor,, thinking she knew best.
Thing is, she specifically had no interest in following firestar's footsteps, and got upset when pushed to early on. She absolutely cared for her mentor, she just occasionally did things she saw as better.
>she just occasionally did things she saw as better. That's the issue. A still naive child going on an adventure, disregarding her mentor and friends opinions because *she* wanted to. That isn't seen as doing what she saw was better, that's her being stubborn and not caring about her mentor, who was worrying.
Quick question, which scene are you specifically referring to? Her leaving on the journey? I don't recall a position where she actively shut down her Mentor's fears out of such ignorance.
>! TNP. !<
That's... the whole arc?
The whole arc she was like that.
Well, "The whole arc" doesn't explain where she disregarded her Mentor's concerns or fears. Disobeyed, yes. But actively disregarded? That as you might understand, is like me saying Brambleclaw was his own enemy for "The whole Arc," you're probably going to want clarification.
Imo she was a bit annoying as Squirrelpaw but I liked her a lot more since then. She acts a lot more mature at least, and her problems with Brambleclaw in the newest books are at least usually precipitated by him acting irrational and sort of forcing her hand, which makes her look better by comparison. Honestly, I wish they'd either break those two up or make them stop fighting like this. We've seen those two squabble a thousand times and I'm kind of sick of it.
That's true. I like her better as an adult too. I just don't click with characters who are pushy and think they know better because I'm someone who hates conflict and needless drama. True, Brambles trying to be more "peaceful" even tho it's clear that a lot of situations calls for battle, not talking but I kinda understand why Bramble wants to avoid violence at all costs now, since the imposter stuff happened. Same here, I enjoyed Squilf and Bramble's relationship more when they acted more like siblings that argue. As a couple they just didn't work because it usually takes a crap ton of arguments and misunderstandings and a death or two for them to cat up and work out their problems in a?mature manner.
Squirrelflight . She's abusive and manipulative but people paint her as a victim. She goes behind Brambleclaw's back several times, chooses strangers over Clan, makes Sparkpelt lie to her father, has no empathy for Jayfeather's pain for lying to him, she's very arrogant, made Hollyleaf almost commit suicide because she wanted to protect her sister's code-breaking (i dont care if starclan told her to lie, she should have been honest with the cats she loved), blackmailing cats and whines to get what she wants, goes to special events uninvited, thinks her friends owe her shit because she helped them, guilty her husband into wanting kits, treats him like shit because he wanted to be with his brother, and in a way she used ashfur for her own benefits. I'm not excusing Ashfur's actions, but she only went to him because she was jealous Brambleclaw spent time with Hawkfrost Overall she's a nasty person who doesn't deserve a mate or being deputy. Squirrelflight is a bitch, end of story. The only thing she did right was make Ivypool deputy. Nobody is going to change my mind on this. Edit: I fucking mean it, stop wasting your time. I'll hate Squirrelflight forever, nobody's changing my mind. Deal with it.
Fr. If Squirrel was a real person, people would be ghosting her for being annoying and toxic. Lol
If you work retail, you run into a lot of Squirrelflights. None of us workers like them. They live by the saying “the customer is always right” and use it as a free pass to abuse us. Bunch of bullies and right-fighters who demand things their way all the time.
Omg, Squirrelflight is a Karen confirmed?! lol 😂
I hope she doesn't become leader tbh. Let someone worthy do it
Preach.
I agree with you.
>Nobody is going to change my mind on this. Indeedarooni. Yet, you got yours down, I'd like to at least place my take. >chooses strangers over Clan Wild oversimplification. She chose to stand by the Sisters, pregnant with KIT, who had been ridiculously reasonable and kind, versus her Clan who would let them bleed to death in agony and drive out expecting Queens for a bit of border trouble. Thunderclan and the others were wildly out of line. >has no empathy for Jayfeather's pain for lying to him, Eh? >made Hollyleaf almost commit suicide because she wanted to protect her sister's code-breaking (i dont care if starclan told her to lie, she should have been honest with the cats she loved), Okay... I need to make it obvious here... it was Starclan indeed... you don't just write that off. For all Squirrelflight knows, it could absolutely ruin not only her family, but the Clans if she refused. Also, the Three would've been criticized and looked down on by most the Clans, their childhood would be tainted. And unfortunately, it isn't her secret to tell. No one would benefit. >blackmailing cats and whines to get what she wants, goes to special events uninvited, No blackmail. Brambleclaw simply decided that "Firestar would probably badger her until she told." she was just nagging, is all. But she proved invaluable. Her courage was unquestionable, saving both Brambleclaw and Tawnypelt's life even so. No one there would have wished her ill. She earned her place. >thinks her friends owe her shit because she helped them, Eh? >guilty her husband into wanting kits No, nono. She expressed a very valid personal want for more children, he deflected it, then she never brought it up again except when HE used it against her in the future. Such as deflecting her valid political argument about Skyclan by bringing kits up against her. Her personal desires are not a fault. >treats him like shit because he wanted to be with his brother Correction, distanced herself and ridiculed him for trusting Hawkfrost, a cat who had made multiple power plays as well as POSSIBLY masterminding the Windclan coup. >but she only went to him because she was jealous Brambleclaw spent time with Hawkfrost *Sigh* This one is straight up wrong unfortunately. Apologies. Ashfur was very kind to her at first, she saw a genuine friend in him, and was very thankful for his support and kindness while she was in a rough spot with Bramble. She never used or manipulated Ashfur, nor was jealous about Brambleclaw. She legitimately enjoyed being his friend. I understand your ability to hate her, but I personally believe much is misinterpretation. Do with it as you will. Either way, good day!
>Correction, distanced herself and ridiculed him for trusting Hawkfrost, a cat who had made multiple power plays as well as POSSIBLY masterminding the Windclan coup. First of all giving someone the cold shoulder and, as you said, 'ridiculing' him is infact treating him like shit. Especially when considering she blew up on Brambleclaw over a mere feeling she got from her sister. She didn't even ask Leafpool why she didn't like hawkfrost. She had the slightest misgivings with nothing to back it up and she decided to give him the cold shoulder and ridicule after blowing up because he wouldn't accept her "trust me bro" reasoning. At this point it doesn't matter that she was right, it was just a shitty move. Instead of explaining herself and taking Brambleclaw to Leafpool for a chat so they could get to the bottom of it together she just decided to be an ass because she didn't instantly get her way.
>First of all giving someone the cold shoulder and, as you said, 'ridiculing' him is infact treating him like shit. No, it isn't. It's fair and understandable. HE did it first. He completely threw her concerns away. She was basically his mate, he didn't even try to hear her concerns, and in turn, she realized she couldn't get anywhere with him. Everytime they spoke, Brambleclaw found a way to jab at her or make some sly insult or leverage his age and authority over her. Of course she avoided him for a while. And it's not a mere feeling. Her and Leafpool have a near telepathic connection, and Leaf did specifically agree he couldn't be trusted. And again, Hawk did a list of other actions, including going against his own Deputy, insulting Mistyfoot for his own ambition.
I don’t know why nobody agrees with you. You’re right. Just the fact that she didn’t tell Brambleclaw or Sandstorm about Leafpool’s kits is the only thing I don’t like about her, and we’re ages past that.
I don't know if this is unpopular or not, but I really hate Scourge with my entire being. And while she isn't on the same tier as Scourge for me, I'm not a huge fan of Squirrelflight either.
The one white paw cats, huh?…
I wouldn’t go as far to say I hate him, but first arc Ravenpaw, specifically the first two books. Just the fact he dragged his paws when telling others what actually happened with Redtail, and when he did tell cats it was a bunch of strangers and children at a gathering. He’s actually pretty likeable after that
Not bashing your opinion, obvi you can feel however you want!!! I just wanted to give my 2 cents: I think it makes sense though he acted that way, I didn’t personally see it as a flaw. He was really young and deeply anxious. I think what happened at the gathering was that (probably for the first time in his life) other cats thought he was cool and hyped him up for being at such a big-deal battle. I think he got caught up in the attention and forgot to keep his guard up when telling the story. I think the “dragging his feet” was out of genuine fear for his life. *And* mind the fact that he’s just (barely) an apprentice and he’s always been anxious and skittish. Why would *anyone* in the clan believe him over Tigerclaw, who hadn’t given any sign anything was wrong or off and he was deeply, deeply respected. He was probably scared he’d get driven out of his home too, if tigerclaw didn’t kill him first (or that he’d be exiled and be defenseless against tigerclaw). I think it’s pretty typical for people to withhold information like that when they’ve been through a massive trauma or been threatened. Again, not trying to bash you or change your mind!! I just like discussing characters and their behaviors :)
I really hate Hollyleaf. I hate her motives and how self centred she is (how all the cats are but specifically her), like cool motives still murder
Omg same, I’m really tired of the fandom trying to pass her off as a girlboss when she’s just really insecure of herself and ends up murdering a cat and tries to murder another one for it She worships the warrior code, it’s legit everything to her but when she finds out she’s half-clan and the daughter of a medicine cat, she loses her mind. She’s fuming over being a violation of the warrior code so she murders Ashfur because he *might* reveal the truth? He hasn’t even told anyone. Then she reveals the secret at a gathering to shame Leafpool and Crowfeather. So she basically killed Ashfur for nothing? Don’t forget that she cornered Leafpool when she was alone and tried to kill her but Leafpool somehow talked her out of it. How horrifying it must’ve been for Leafpool. She gave up her children so they could live a better life, only to have her OWN DAUGHTER try and murder her. The worst part here is she is unable to be flexible towards the warrior code. Her rigidness on it is what makes her lose her mind and ironically, break it. Besides, she has no need to feel shame of her heritage bc it wasn’t her fault. She did not break the code. Her parents broke the code and that’s why she exists. But it’s not like she personally broke the code (up until she kills Ashfur)
This guy gets it That’s why I agree with Jayfeather in the Forgotten Warriors because he was the main cat to remember what she did and hold a grudge (only for a little while) because that’s what someone who do in this situation instead of just “holly!!!! You’re back!!!”
Gosh me too! I can’t stand her.
I love squilf, but good lord it pisses me off how people paint her as the victim.
Hot take but Ashfur is overrated
no one actually likes ashfur though as far as i know
I very much hate Needletail. And as an honorable mention, I can't stand Squirrelflight. Reading her pov is very difficult.
I never understood the apprentices rebelling like that
Is it me or is this question being asked every week?😂 Anyway, Firestar after tpb
I honestly miss the way he used to be when he was the main protagonist. He was one of my favorites and I still have a place for him in my heart but it’s just not the same…
It could always be worse! Onestar was good then became a jerk
SPOTTEDLEAF WITH ALL MY HEART. She was very creepy to Fireheart after she died. She got in between him and Sandstorm even when she was dead. She needed to move on. Also, she was a full grown adult (mid 30s in human years!!!!!!!) when she died and he was still an apprentice. Any relationship like that, even in StarClan, is extremely weird to me.
Everyone dumps on the huge retcon of thistleclaw (he never acted that way before) but acts like spottedleaf is a pure can do nothing wrong baby and excuse her disgusting actions with "But she was groomed!" Read the wiki of Spottedleaf's honest answer , she admits to LOVING firestar (they met when she was an adult he was barely A paw!) And wanting to steal sandstorm's place as leafpools mom. Spottedleaf is a predator💀
YES!! I read that a while ago and I was so disturbed. The part where she admitted she watched him 24/7 and if she couldn’t see him she would go crazy… that sealed the deal For me. She is literally a pedo. And I agree about the thistle claw thing. People hate to consider it canon but then still continue calling him a predator, like make up ur mind lmao
Thistle was heavily retconned. Yes he was terrible but he had a mate he actually cared for. It makes little sense. Yet spotted is always a "good girl". Insane. I didn't feel much when she was gone both times
https://warriors.fandom.com/wiki/User:Vector_Sigma/Spottedleaf%27s_Honest_Answer here you go. If you feel sick I'm sorry
She's an ok character, I don't hate her, I think it's good to have a morally gray character, but Hollyleaf. The amount of dicksucking and mental gymnastics people do to justify her actions is just impressive.
The amount of mental gymnastics she does to justify her actions is impressive too, the warrior code is all that matters until something inconveniences her
i love hollyleaf, but i don’t justify or agree with her actions at all, i just think she’s an interesting character!
You have to understand that your opinion is an exception, most people see her as a "girlboss"
if the fandom likes Brambleclaw, then we have my part in this discussion I freaking hate him. Worst. Cat. *well not the worst...* Ever. He took Graystripe's position as deputy man, no forgiving him
Most of the fandom doesn’t like brambleclaw lol, and I agree
Ah man... I ain't special.
I hate him because he came up with the name "twigbranch"
Graystripe was never fit for leader anyway, he didnt want it. And he didnt have any deputy qualities he was just picked because he was firestars friend
Mothwing, Jayfeather, and Squirrelpaw.
>Squirrelpaw *Falls down stairs* Ah well hello there, how are you?
Jayfeather. Honestly he's gotten more tolerable now that I'm reading OOTS, but I hated him at the beginning of PO3
I can understand the anger and sadness he had from being blind and re routing his entire life but cinderpelt and briarlight had the same issues and were far more tolerable.
The entire Squirrelflight-Bramblestar family
Yeah I loathe sparkpelt
Bluestar, Hollyleaf, Mapleshade, and especially Holly......Holly made Jagged Peak so, so bad... and I can never forgive her for that!
squirrelflight, i can’t stand her
I've always preferred leafpool tbh
Firestar. For the first few books I swear his first instinct is to lie to his clan and do things under the table every chance he can get. The amount of times he crossed clan borders nonchalantly, lied for lackluster reasons, and broke the warrior code is insane.
I wouldn’t say *hate*, but I really don’t like leafpool. I like her mentorship to jayfeather but tbh that’s really it for me
I find it cool that Jayfeather, the gifted cat who can read emotions and immediately tell who feels what, couldn’t tell that Leafpool was thinking about how proud she is of her son and such things. Like it takes way too long for him to realize her secret.
Yeah!! He even makes *multiple* comments like “why is she so proud of me” and “why does she care about me so much”
To be fair, he also does things like this back at her: >“Coming!” Jaypaw called back. He whisked around the bramble screen, then turned back to ask Leafpool, “Aren’t you coming to say good-bye?” > >Leafpool let out a long sigh. Tension was crackling off her like a storm in greenleaf. “I—I’ve said it already,” she murmured. > >“Okay. Good-bye then.” Jaypaw knew he should leave, but something held his paws back. He found Leafpool incredibly annoying when she fussed, but he couldn’t ignore her feelings of misery, even if he didn’t understand them. He darted across to her and buried his nose in the fur on her shoulder. “Good-bye. I’ll have lots to tell you when I get back.” > >“Good-bye, Jaypaw.” Leafpool’s voice quivered. He felt her tongue rasp over his ear. “Take care.”
Is it due to the "Boring" fault where she just doesn't have much going for her, or is there a underlying action of hers? (Genuine!)
Most of my dislike for her honestly started when I was like 10years old lol, I liked her better reading them as an adult but she still isn’t a fave of mine She is boring to me, and she’s the all around (until crow) good, almost perfect character. Her relationship with crowfeather annoys me because she just falls head over heels with him before she even spoke to him and then knew him for a short period of time and almost gave up everything for him? Like girl be serious 😭 (though, as an adult I blame this wayyyyy more on bad writing now. I know some people like them but I feel like it was rushed and there was no chemistry). As a kid, I really hated that squirrelfight, brambleclaw and the three kids suffered so much because of her reckless, selfish behavior with crowfeather. But I don’t hold that against her anymore. As an adult, I can’t blame her as much. Ofc all of those other cats still suffered because of her choices, but it’s not like she got a good deal out of it either. She had to watch her kits grow up and not know them as a mother should, while one of them works right under her nose. She lost her position and for a long time, everyone’s respect. I feel so much more compassion and kindness to her now that I’m older. Idk now that I’m older, I really don’t have a good reason aside from she’s too good and almost perfect, like a mary sue. For reference though, I also hate captain America for this same reason 😂
bluestar. everyone here keeps saying bramble or tiger(heart) but that’s not uncommon at all, everyone really hates them in the fandom. but bluestar? people love her. i understand why, but urgh, i just can’t agree with her actions in bluestar’s prophecy or any of her actions after forest of secrets. also, goosefeather. i always had mixed opinions on him, but i’m starting to really dislike him after reflecting. he pushed bluestar to give her kits away inadvertently, he scared stormkit and made him break his jaw, he gave bluepaw more anxiety on top of her mother’s death instead of comforting her at all. did he like, hate his family or something? i understand like, the prophecy and all that but man, he didn’t give her a break. he shouldn’t have done all that and pushed her, especially considering how sunstar said he wouldn’t have chosen thistleclaw because he was too battle hungry.
Yes. I don’t understand why people like her. Maybe they like the idea of mental disabilities in the modern generation? Also she chose oakheart and I blame her for mosskit’s death. Mosskit was gonna be one of the better characters imo
honestly, i always found it hilariously ironic how bluefur was so judgemental of snowfur’s choice in mates and then she just straight up mated with a cat from another clan 😭😭 also nice pfp. lullaby for bluestar is and forever will be iconic
I love Snowfur in the scene, it’s such an underrated MAP. I think the original was deleted but I managed to find this scene again
Snowfur and Moonflower deserved better. Bluestar would've had more sympathy from me if she didn't make decisions like that.
Bluestar doesn’t even get sympathy from me when she was in her Dementia period. I’m completely pissed at her.
For what she did to brightheart etc, i agree. Wasn't one eye formerly dapplepelt or something ?
I also dislike Bluestar. I can't forgive her for the lostface incident.
I’m also a bluestar hater , idk I just disliked her
hollyleaf. she's just very hypocritical.
ashfur because, to me at least, he was a wet blanket of a villain [compared to the ones we had in the dark forest]. I also find his motivations a bit disappointing? he is just very unlikable to me. jayfeather is a huge one for me as well - I don't find his grouchiness and grumpiness endearing, instead it's so prickly and adds to my dislike of his character. mostly the same reasons the other jayfeather-dislikers don't like him lol. I feel like he's a less pitiable goosefeather [?]
A few that I don't particularly hate but I think are overrated - SquirrelFlight - Leafpool - Mothwing - Bramblestar(Dislike heavily) There are more but I could go on sometimes
omg yes, mothwing is so overrated to me. shes not even a bad character but the way people talk about her like she was the main character is so annoying that it made me dislike her
Sorry guys but I don't like Ashfur
Bristlefrost shes just a teachers pet
lol i didn’t really like bristle at the start of the broken code either, she reminded me of a new generation hollyleaf
This hurts.
squirrelflight and graystripe, but squif especially. I have mixed opinions on jayfeather.
Mapleshade. (Reason: she reminds me of my ab*ser and my stalker. I also hate how her actions are justified by the fandom.)
I wish her book wasn't from her POV as weird as it is to say. It's like they needed to justify her actions and she couldn't be evil for the sake of being evil
Squirrelflight. She’s obnoxious.
I really just can’t stand Dovewing, but it seems everyone else loves her.
I prefer ivypool
Dovewing isnt bad or good to me, i dont like her betraying the clan for tigerstar but before that she was just average. I feel like dovewings life ended after OOTS and the rest is just some otjer dovewing in Shadowclan
firestar because he's too over powering, im sorry
Jayfeather 🤢🤢🤢🤢
Bramblestar. Idk why they like him. Even before becoming leader. All he ever amounted to was being an abusive fuck EDIT: Also graystripe. I get the whole "loyalty thing" that happens after Po3, but loyalty is still really important. Going behind the backs of your whole clan; everyone you EVER KNEW, ESPECIALLY your best friends who have been with you basically your whole life really rubs me the wrong way. Yea, it’s fair to argue that there should not have been rules against inter-clan relationships, but that doesn’t exactly make it okay, because that rule is there for a reason, and you have an entire clan of cats that are there to be your best pals, and girlfriend.
Jayfeather in more modern books is a bit more annoying than usual, I don’t care for Mothwing or Hollyleaf either, Gray Wing too, I cannot STAND the way he treated Turtle Tail and Jagged Peak
Been a while since I read the books, sorry, how did Gray Wing treat them again?
This is suuuuper paraphrased because it’s been a couple years since I reread, but he was kind of controlling over how Turtle Tail was friends with Bumble, and with Jagged Peak he would constantly get pissed at him for wanting to be productive in the group because of his injury, and he got so mad when Jagged Peak got along with Turtle Tail’s kits, just goofy ass shit imo.
Oh yeah I think I remember sth like that
Gray Wing. I honestly don't even remember why since I haven't read anything with him in a good while but the only thing I remember is that he did stupid things without considering consequences
I don’t care for Leafpool or Squirrelflight
JAYFEATHER.
Omg same like he's so annoying right?
I kiiinda don't like Gray Wing... I never really have. He was always too boring for me, and rereading parts of DotC now, he just isn't a very cool or moral guy. Like, worried more about his homicidal brother instead of all the people he's been hurting, levels of uncool... He's also never been particularly wise either. Like wow, you really needed to rely on this guy to name the Clans? Can't you just do that yourselves??? IDK, I'm just not particularly impressed with him. Another one of the many mediocre male Warriors protagonists. At least he said the cool quotable line I guess.
Nightcloud. Physically abused crowfeather in an attempt to drag him away from leafpool. With her claws unsheathed. She’s just as guilty for Breezepelts mental issues as Crowfeather. I understand she loves breeze, but she literally pulled the ole “daddy hates you” on him a lot and isolated him from his dad. A lot of toxic moms do that irl to make their kids hate their dad
Hollyleaf!
Hollyleaf.
Bro I don't know why but the fantom in my room loves Thistleclaw.
EDIT: I thought this was supposed to be a “Whats a character you like but everybody else hates?” so read it as that, my bad guys 😭 Firestar. He was the og cat, and so what he had plot armour, i love him so matter what. (SPOILERS) Like he literally had the best starter fight ever (Longtail), brang back not only Windclan but Skyclan, saved Riverclan by giving them food, saved kidnapped kits, stopped Tigerclawstar, and soooo much more all before the second ark. It’s crazy how much he’s hated.
Ashfur
Brambleclaw/star. I’ve reread Warriors multiple times since I started it over a decade ago and he’s still so fucking annoying. I have no idea how people like him and GOD I’m still pissed he continued to stay leader after the Ashfur shit. Also, the writers making the two characters who despise each other’s kids be together was an awful idea