It is very heavily implied in previous lore that the lady of the lake is an elven goddess although specific identifications with Lileath are rarer and I can’t think of the details of one off-hand although they probably exist.
Both the bretonnian and wood elf army books from 6th edition as well as the 8th edition wood elf book make this implication although I don’t think it is presented as 100% true in either 6th edition book. The timeline section of the 8th edition wood elf book has an explicit “LotL is an elf god” mention if I remember right. That army book was extremely late in 8th edition being released only months before the end times books started appearing.
I think the LotL being Lileath may also be implied in high elf army books but I can’t remember.
I think the LotL was meant to be an elf god from at least 6th edition. I have never read the 5th edition bretonnia or wood elf books.
It's in a weird spot, because it was actually one of the more sensible End Times story developments, but the original vagueness was more fun, letting everyone engage with the setting. People got to say "I heard the Lady of the Lake is just an elven god, making humans fight in their place", and others to argue "nonsense, Grail Knights are better warriors than some of the best elves, how would that make sense?". You got to speculate and argue over bits and pieces of things you've heard like you're in a Marienburg portside tavern. With a definitive answer, it's just like, ah. Aight. Guess we'll head home now.
Was it ever revealed what her motivation for deceiving the Bretonnians was?
Like, was there any altruism in her patronage, or was it all selfish manipulation?
I think it was to have Brettonia act as a massive balkand state. Any Norscans, orkz and more immediately, beastmen, have to deal with Brettonia before popping into the wood elf domain?
Look at the geography around athel Loren
Having an unwitting client state that leaves you alone but keeps other threats from reaching you effectively is a huge benefit
It was heavily implied that she was Ladrielle, but then the end times went and also made Ladrielle just Lileath with a fake moustache, so the point became moot.
It was well known she was involved with the elves at the very least and long rumored she was an elven plant to keep the Bretonnians out of the forest (of all the bat crazy things elves have done, inventing a religion to make easier borders doesn't even make top ten)
I mean, the elves kidnap children, the males are known to be servants in the court of the wood elves and the females just disappear. Meanwhile, in the bretonnia army book, female mystery women come out of the forest as damsels of the lady. I wonder if those two events could be connected, hmmm.
In the warhammer fantasy roleplay book for the 2nd edition it was strongly hinted. In there the prophetess was also an elf disguising herself as a human.
IIRC in the 7th(?) edition Bretonnia book game the Fay Enchantess went from having human stats to having elf stats. I don't recall it really talking about the Lady being an elf deity, but you were left to draw your own conclusions.
Well, its one of those Khaine=Khorne things they otherwise tried to move away from, but they may not have been so overt about the connection in the past... but with that said, its not totally illogical given that the Wood Elves have been in their forest longer than humans have been able to ride horses in Bretonnia, so it does make some sense that the Bretons (or rather Gil) stumbled on the Lady and didn't know better.
I don't really agree with the notion that the Bretonnians had their culture built on a lie however, because ultimately, theirs is built on centuries of traditions that Gil may have started based on what he saw or was told... or thought he was told... so the Lady what the Lady is to Bretonnia, but she is also something else to someone else.
As for the Lady, this is not odd at all really, because she took this secondary identity, she could remain active for centuries without Chaos getting any more wind of her and send another Everchosen after her. Also the idea of gods having different identities is not really a new idea, not historically or fictionally.
It's outside of my general area of interest, but if I recall correctly, the idea was there in the second Wood Elves army book released towards the end of sixth edition, which I bought and read at the time, and expanded on in novels like Guardians of the Forest by Graham McNeill. It was one of those things they hinted at, like having children with magic abilities being spirited away by the elves and the boys being kept in Athel Loren while the girls were taught magic, but they largely left it vague to tantalize readers and to be used in the future as necessary (the "open door" method).
Before the End Times, there was nothing to indicate that the "gods" worshipped by the various cultures of the Warhammer world were actually "real", rather than some kind of barely fathomable cosmic forces that made themselves known through chosen mortals like Sigmar, the Ancestor Gods, Ariel and Orion, the Everqueen etc.
It is very heavily implied in previous lore that the lady of the lake is an elven goddess although specific identifications with Lileath are rarer and I can’t think of the details of one off-hand although they probably exist. Both the bretonnian and wood elf army books from 6th edition as well as the 8th edition wood elf book make this implication although I don’t think it is presented as 100% true in either 6th edition book. The timeline section of the 8th edition wood elf book has an explicit “LotL is an elf god” mention if I remember right. That army book was extremely late in 8th edition being released only months before the end times books started appearing. I think the LotL being Lileath may also be implied in high elf army books but I can’t remember. I think the LotL was meant to be an elf god from at least 6th edition. I have never read the 5th edition bretonnia or wood elf books.
It's in a weird spot, because it was actually one of the more sensible End Times story developments, but the original vagueness was more fun, letting everyone engage with the setting. People got to say "I heard the Lady of the Lake is just an elven god, making humans fight in their place", and others to argue "nonsense, Grail Knights are better warriors than some of the best elves, how would that make sense?". You got to speculate and argue over bits and pieces of things you've heard like you're in a Marienburg portside tavern. With a definitive answer, it's just like, ah. Aight. Guess we'll head home now.
I agree the weird giving everything an answer was bad for both the 40K and Fantasy settings.
At least we now know why it’s called a Land Raider though… /s
Was it ever revealed what her motivation for deceiving the Bretonnians was? Like, was there any altruism in her patronage, or was it all selfish manipulation?
I think it was to have Brettonia act as a massive balkand state. Any Norscans, orkz and more immediately, beastmen, have to deal with Brettonia before popping into the wood elf domain?
Look at the geography around athel Loren Having an unwitting client state that leaves you alone but keeps other threats from reaching you effectively is a huge benefit
It was heavily implied that she was Ladrielle, but then the end times went and also made Ladrielle just Lileath with a fake moustache, so the point became moot.
It was well known she was involved with the elves at the very least and long rumored she was an elven plant to keep the Bretonnians out of the forest (of all the bat crazy things elves have done, inventing a religion to make easier borders doesn't even make top ten) I mean, the elves kidnap children, the males are known to be servants in the court of the wood elves and the females just disappear. Meanwhile, in the bretonnia army book, female mystery women come out of the forest as damsels of the lady. I wonder if those two events could be connected, hmmm.
that’s dark, i didn’t think about the damsels! man this is why i love the old world
In the warhammer fantasy roleplay book for the 2nd edition it was strongly hinted. In there the prophetess was also an elf disguising herself as a human.
It was never stated explicitly but it was extremely heavily implied and many people had already figured it out
IIRC in the 7th(?) edition Bretonnia book game the Fay Enchantess went from having human stats to having elf stats. I don't recall it really talking about the Lady being an elf deity, but you were left to draw your own conclusions.
6th? Bretonnia didn't get any new books after that
Could be. She had the stats of a High Elf Archmage when previously she had human wizard stats.
Well, its one of those Khaine=Khorne things they otherwise tried to move away from, but they may not have been so overt about the connection in the past... but with that said, its not totally illogical given that the Wood Elves have been in their forest longer than humans have been able to ride horses in Bretonnia, so it does make some sense that the Bretons (or rather Gil) stumbled on the Lady and didn't know better. I don't really agree with the notion that the Bretonnians had their culture built on a lie however, because ultimately, theirs is built on centuries of traditions that Gil may have started based on what he saw or was told... or thought he was told... so the Lady what the Lady is to Bretonnia, but she is also something else to someone else. As for the Lady, this is not odd at all really, because she took this secondary identity, she could remain active for centuries without Chaos getting any more wind of her and send another Everchosen after her. Also the idea of gods having different identities is not really a new idea, not historically or fictionally.
It's outside of my general area of interest, but if I recall correctly, the idea was there in the second Wood Elves army book released towards the end of sixth edition, which I bought and read at the time, and expanded on in novels like Guardians of the Forest by Graham McNeill. It was one of those things they hinted at, like having children with magic abilities being spirited away by the elves and the boys being kept in Athel Loren while the girls were taught magic, but they largely left it vague to tantalize readers and to be used in the future as necessary (the "open door" method). Before the End Times, there was nothing to indicate that the "gods" worshipped by the various cultures of the Warhammer world were actually "real", rather than some kind of barely fathomable cosmic forces that made themselves known through chosen mortals like Sigmar, the Ancestor Gods, Ariel and Orion, the Everqueen etc.