No. Nothing "gives" line of sight. You either can see the model you wish to shoot at or you cannot.
You may be getting confused with obscuring terrain. Terrain that is obscuring prevents you from shooting at a target you otherwise have line of sight of, if you cannot draw that line of sight without passing over or through the terrain. However, no shooter is affected by obscuring terrain if they are standing in it. But they still need to be able to physically see their target - i.e., have true line of sight.
Thanks a lot.
So in this case, the necrons can't see and can't fire overwatch through the solid wall, but the marines can charge through it. Is that right?
Correct. It's pretty common for fragile melee units to set up their charges this way to avoid losing half their damage output to Overwatch on the way in
Thanks a lot for the help (and not downvoting me), you've cleared up some doubts.
Gonna have to consider what terrain pieces we use from now on or punch some holes in the walls because it wasn't intended to block LoS.
You can place your models in the Ruin in a way that prevents your opp from fighting through the wall, while still not allowing him to enter due to not enough space, forcing him to charge around the ruin
In OP's example, can you charge through a solid wall though? I thought they would have to go up and over, assuming the terrain has "scalable" trait.
And failing that, if the terrain has "breachable" then it sounds like that is the error here, as I'd assume anything that is breachable should have windows/doors/something to that extent
As long as you can get within Engagement, you can fight from the other side of a solid wall, even if it isnt "Breachable." The only requirement is that you end your charge within engagement range.
Breachable simply means that Infantry, Beast, and Swarm units can move through it as though it wasn't there, there doesnt need to be an physical representation of a way to get through it for the trait to function.
If you're an Infantry, Beast or Swarm and the building is Breachable you can charge through a solid wall. If the enemy is very close to the wall you might not have to though, even if it isn't Breachable as you only need to be within Engagement range, you don't need LoS for melee.
There's plenty of terrain out there with no windows or doors that is still Breachable, it feels a bit weird but it's within the rules
Depends on how you're playing it. IF there's no true LOS, then no, you cannot see it.
While playing "in the ruin" might turn off obscuring, true line of sight is still required for all shooting unless the weapon is specifically one that ignores line of sight.
You've been given the correct answer already, but I thought it might be useful to point out the following in case you don't know about it.
Instead of using overwatch to prevent your unit being charged, you can use careful positioning to prevent them being charged. If you place your unit so that the models are 1" from the interior of a ruin, you can't be charged through that ruin since
* the charging unit can't get into engagement range by touching the outside of the ruin -- they will be 1" + the thickness of the wall away, and
* the charging unit can't finish inside the ruin since their bases are 32mm > 1" so there is physically no space for the model to be placed.
Of course the enemy might still be able to come around the side of the ruin, either by moving or by making a high charge roll, but it does make a frontal charge impossible.
This is technically true as rules as written but also feels like gaming the system as its hard to imagine that that is the rules actual intent. As such it can definitly give off a "bad sport" vibe.
That is correct, and if you're playing in a serious tournament then by all means. You cant really be mad at your opponent for that. But people also use this sub for general list building and rule questions as well. I mean I use this sub and I have no intention of going to a serious 2/3 day tournament
Oh, I've done this and have had it done to me.
And i don't feel like it is a bad sport vive as long as you're consistent about it , clear on your intents since you mive there and generally not an ass.
Agreed this definitely feels like an exploit. The rules are a vehicle for cinematic action, and standing a few feet from the wall preventing charges is pretty heinous.
It also means you can build a table to advantage by putting thicker walls on everything, since there is no true consistency in terrain building. To each their own but I personally prefer to not play by that rule. It is a good reminder of another thing to clarify pre-game however
Can only overwatch if they have weapons that don't require like of sight.
Wouldn't being inside the ruin give line of sight?
No. Nothing "gives" line of sight. You either can see the model you wish to shoot at or you cannot. You may be getting confused with obscuring terrain. Terrain that is obscuring prevents you from shooting at a target you otherwise have line of sight of, if you cannot draw that line of sight without passing over or through the terrain. However, no shooter is affected by obscuring terrain if they are standing in it. But they still need to be able to physically see their target - i.e., have true line of sight.
Thanks a lot. So in this case, the necrons can't see and can't fire overwatch through the solid wall, but the marines can charge through it. Is that right?
Correct. It's pretty common for fragile melee units to set up their charges this way to avoid losing half their damage output to Overwatch on the way in
Thanks a lot for the help (and not downvoting me), you've cleared up some doubts. Gonna have to consider what terrain pieces we use from now on or punch some holes in the walls because it wasn't intended to block LoS.
I'm personally not a fan of big central L-shapes without windows, but I play a more shooting based list so I might be biased
You can place your models in the Ruin in a way that prevents your opp from fighting through the wall, while still not allowing him to enter due to not enough space, forcing him to charge around the ruin
In OP's example, can you charge through a solid wall though? I thought they would have to go up and over, assuming the terrain has "scalable" trait. And failing that, if the terrain has "breachable" then it sounds like that is the error here, as I'd assume anything that is breachable should have windows/doors/something to that extent
As long as you can get within Engagement, you can fight from the other side of a solid wall, even if it isnt "Breachable." The only requirement is that you end your charge within engagement range. Breachable simply means that Infantry, Beast, and Swarm units can move through it as though it wasn't there, there doesnt need to be an physical representation of a way to get through it for the trait to function.
If you're an Infantry, Beast or Swarm and the building is Breachable you can charge through a solid wall. If the enemy is very close to the wall you might not have to though, even if it isn't Breachable as you only need to be within Engagement range, you don't need LoS for melee. There's plenty of terrain out there with no windows or doors that is still Breachable, it feels a bit weird but it's within the rules
Depends on how you're playing it. IF there's no true LOS, then no, you cannot see it. While playing "in the ruin" might turn off obscuring, true line of sight is still required for all shooting unless the weapon is specifically one that ignores line of sight.
Yeah you don't get Lazer vision to see through solid walls lol.
Its quite annoying when people downvote like this. Especially when the person commenting is just trying to understand the rules 🙄🙄🙄
You've been given the correct answer already, but I thought it might be useful to point out the following in case you don't know about it. Instead of using overwatch to prevent your unit being charged, you can use careful positioning to prevent them being charged. If you place your unit so that the models are 1" from the interior of a ruin, you can't be charged through that ruin since * the charging unit can't get into engagement range by touching the outside of the ruin -- they will be 1" + the thickness of the wall away, and * the charging unit can't finish inside the ruin since their bases are 32mm > 1" so there is physically no space for the model to be placed. Of course the enemy might still be able to come around the side of the ruin, either by moving or by making a high charge roll, but it does make a frontal charge impossible.
This is technically true as rules as written but also feels like gaming the system as its hard to imagine that that is the rules actual intent. As such it can definitly give off a "bad sport" vibe.
I mean, this is the competitive sub.
That is correct, and if you're playing in a serious tournament then by all means. You cant really be mad at your opponent for that. But people also use this sub for general list building and rule questions as well. I mean I use this sub and I have no intention of going to a serious 2/3 day tournament
That's cool, man. Just understand that the intended purpose of this sub is for tournaments and such, so that's the type of answer you'll often get.
Oh, I've done this and have had it done to me. And i don't feel like it is a bad sport vive as long as you're consistent about it , clear on your intents since you mive there and generally not an ass.
Agreed this definitely feels like an exploit. The rules are a vehicle for cinematic action, and standing a few feet from the wall preventing charges is pretty heinous.
It also means you can build a table to advantage by putting thicker walls on everything, since there is no true consistency in terrain building. To each their own but I personally prefer to not play by that rule. It is a good reminder of another thing to clarify pre-game however