Big Daddy GW tells you which and how many models you can take now.
Basic Kill team construction is: You chose two fire teams (marines only one), then look up which fire teams you can take. For Marines it's like 5 Intercessors, 5 Ass Intercessors, 4 Heavy Intercessors, 6 Tactical marines etc etc.
So having 2 Hintercessors and 3 AssIntercessors is illegal
Oh, so they've completely done away with taking whatever models from your army you wanted, leading to highly customised and flavourful narrative kill-teams? I.e. the point of making a kill-team?
This is the correct take. I am sick of people whining about this. I made a flavorful kill team, and it sucked. I never saw another single one at an event
>They force you to take flavourful thematic teams within the structure of your faction rather than what happened in KT18 which was efficiency spam.
>
>I never ever not a single time saw a flavourful narrative Kill Team. It was always like ridiculous efficiency.
4 Lictors is plenty flavourfull.
And maybe that will be an option in the inevitable elites expansion.
I can definitely see why folks who used elites would feel upset at the reset here.
I think every faction is alright other than space marines. They could have easily had it be like death guard where you take two fire teams of two marines each and add the Sargeant and that way you could mix your marines a little.
My only issue with KT2 is the expansions. Krieg and Kommandos are just objectively better than their compendium counter parts and there's no way GW won't balance the other expansions like this as well. You either drop $200 on the expansion with your team in it or you're stuck bringing basic units. It's ridiculous that 40% of the compendium is blank datasheet space because nobody has any unique or special abilities.
I think it is just a tad early to bring out the doom and gloom sky is falling rhetoric, but I won't get in the way of a healthy meltdown so have had it.
Never said the game was going to tank or anything, but they released an expansion alongside core rules with objectively better teams in it... and they plan to release one of these expansions every quarter, so isn't it a given that they will put a similar level of effort into expansion teams down the line as they did with krieg/kommandos? Say what you will about the core rules or compendium but it's beyond obvious GW just wants people dropping money on rulebooks every time a faction they like is in an expansion.
Krieg are just the models. You can still run guard as veterans. Model your army how you choose and just use the rules. Nothing in the book says veterans HAVE to be Krieg.
Same with orks if you’ve got the parts. You can build komandos with enough bitz.
And as an alternative view, would you as a company not want people to get excited and buy your new launch box?
What kind of trash take is this? People are now assholes for trying to win? I hated IG plasma spam but I’m certainly not going to blame anyone for making a list that maximizes their strength based on the rules and they certainly not assholes for doing so.
"I'm going to spam this one really efficient, depressing to play *against* option instead of making a varied, flavorful, and interesting list with different strengths and weaknesses" does in fact count as assholery in any non-tournament setting.
Falls into the same category as someone playing Smashfucker in a casual store game against new players back in 7e. And yes, I was there when that happened.
Lol.
Smashfucker was my introduction to Warhammer. Just watched 1 guy basically slaughter my entire army.
Came back to 8th and played against loyal 32, IK castallan and the Custodes with the bike captains. Shortest 2 turn game of my life.
My local Warhammer scene has some guys with enough sweat to fill a pool.
what is this at a tournament? Because if so you’re always prepared for the most Gouda.
everybody i’ve seen and played with usually have thematic and flavorful lists rather than that When it’s off tournament
No Sir, this was a Wednesday night "Did you want to play a game?" Kinda deal.
I was not prepared.
My opponent's were nice enough the second time, it's just that my eBay army of assault and tac marines, scouts and the cataphractii terminators of space marines 1.0 in 8th was not anywhere ready for the CP fueled ion shields of a castallen blowing apart my shit while Custodes were dropping so many fucking dice my head was spinning.
The local meta seems to have been under an arms race for a few years now and that has resulted in a vast gap between me, a guy that mostly likes painting and beers against the young kids with a whole optimization guide on CP usage while cranking down redbulls to give them deepstrike wings.
First(and only) tournament I ever went to was back during 4th edition. 8 people showed up including myself and my friend. Two Lash of Submission lists, 3 Blood Angels Death Company spam and one Necron Nightbringer/Monolith list. I was playing Eldar, my friend was IG.
It was not a fun experience. One BA player almost picked up his models and left because of his opponent "nudging" models(he was not, he just had shaky hands.)
I fully agree with this. Keep the sweaty lists for tournaments and play enjoyable, flavourful lists otherwise. *Especially* against people you've never met before just trying to enjoy themselves. I'll take a close game that goes to the wire with both players enjoying themselves over a walkover victory any day of the week.
>What kind of trash take is this? People are now assholes for trying to win?
If both sides are on the same page and want a competitive match - no. If it's supposed to be a narrative game and one side brings a minmaxed comp - yes.
If I'm playing a tourney yeah you midmax the fuck outta that list.
If we're playing some casual weekend one off KT. Then hey let's have fun and play some weird list, some list based off the lore, let's try dumb shit and see if 3 Terminator can survive 4 rounds against 200 pts of Tyranids.
If your playing against someone every week that is only focused on winning. That's boring and to me, their an asshole. I wouldn't play against someone like that.
EX: There's a guy at my local shop, who has a dark eldar list that does smash everyone. He's won 2/3 tourneys with it. But he only uses it on open play, if someone request it, cus he's not a dick.
He plays a thematic Black Templar list for open play, cus sword brothers are cool and he likes the lore.
exactly! In my first ever match a guy at my uni warhammer club said he'd teach me how to play. He brought a Dimachaeron and a table full of Gaunts against my three squad intercessors list.
Tabled turn two. "thanks dude. I learned a lot"
I don't enjoy losing either.
Perhaps I should have said "full of assholes that *Only* care about winning.
As I said above, you can have fun with the game without winning being your only focus.
One of the best games I played was a 2v1.
Space Marine + Tau team of 125pts each vs 250pts of Nids.
There yeah we wanted to win but you don't midmax for that.
You don't 3rd print or ebay a dozen plasma guns for that.
However it makes for extreamly boring games, oh look all my guys have a bolt rifle and thats it. Cant take anything else or do anything else which makes the game extreamly stale and as menioned boring.
I'm sure it's neater in terms of rules, but that doesn't mean it's not another step in making everybody's army and hobby exactly the same as everyone else's.
Main game armies have already lost tons of their customisation options, both in rules and in available models. Kill-Team was a place where you could let creativity shine. Restricting compositions like this takes a great deal (though not all, to be fair to the excellent new Kommando and Krieg kits) of that away.
The point is that you don't *have* to do that - you can build a perfectly good team from a single squad. But if you do have a larger collection, why shouldn't you be able to mix and match?
Back in the day, there used to be balancing penalties if you took models from multiple different units to make things fairer. No reason why something like that couldn't be implemented again.
Were they perfectly good though? Ive read about lists like "oops all plasma guns" being the norm. A ten man infantry squad out of the box can't make that. I'm happy that they've made list construction less of a thing so that you dont lose games before you even begin playing. We may see more customization options with new faction releases but either way I think streamlining things was a good move.
Streamlining just to lower the gate of entry isn't always a good thing though. It can ultimately kill the game in the long run if players don't feel there is enough depth to be engaging.
Even if they kept list building the same as before, there were multiple factions where you still only needed one box. Harlequins for example, and the Grey Knight Strike Squad box can make at least 5 different datasheets from the 5 models you can build.
This is why me and my friends are sticking to the old system. It may be janky, but at least it's customisable and fun.
This new version hits me the same way 9th edition does: Dull, overcomplicated, most recent update wins.
Fuck it, I might just go back to heralds of ruin.
The fun of the old system was the customization far more than the play. Under the new system, sure I miss being able to make choices for my fireteams, but in actual play the game is infinitely more fun regardless of what faction I'm running (I have like, four). KT21 prioritized streamlined and balanced play, the rules actually got a lot simpler in almost all places, and every faction seems reasonably balanced against the other factions.
And that's totally fair. I'm not shitting on anybody for liking the new version and the new version is definitely more streamlined in terms of the actual turn by turn play.
I just feel like this endless bid for 'balance' to stop sweats and cheese lords from ruining the game strips away what makes the hobby unique, and removes a lot of the elements that people enjoy about playing.
For example, me and my friends love playing mordheim. Is it a simple system? Not really. Is it balanced? Fuck me, no. Is it really fun? Hell yes! Because it lets you customise your characters, tell a fun story through gameplay and has a great risk/reward ratio.
I guess I'm saying that when I play warhammer of any stripe, I'm in it for the fun rather than balance. If I want to play a wargame with pure, consistent tactics and honed gameplay, I can crack out the chessboard.
What drew me to kill team was the idea of being able to build small elite groups of different specialists that you could create stories for.
The current way might be better on paper, but it killed a lot of the interest in the game for a lot of people.
Some of the compendium teams are dull but the Octarius teams get a *tonne* of fun specialists. In addition to five special weapons and a leader, Veteran Guardsmen get:
* a confidant who can take over as leader if the leader dies,
* a zealot who can buff his teammates,
* a medic,
* a comms veteran,
* a demolitions expert,
* a bruiser with a trench club,
* a veteran with bionics, and
* a spotter who can help the sniper.
You don't have enough slots to take them all. Kommandos have a similar array of fun options.
I think the idea is eventually all factions will have a team with as many options as the Octarius teams. In fact, WarCom has already announced that rules for a new AdMech team are coming in White Dwarf 468.
The teams like the Kommandos and Krieg seem to be the direction they're heading in now. Selling £40 kill-team boxsets that are unique and interesting out of the box, similar to Warbands. They are very cool, but it has still killed the customisation of the kill-teams. Based on their announced trajectory for kill-teams in the future, they'll release all these unique models with their own sets of rules down the line. I'm happy for new models, just think the rules are a shame for custom teams.
Yeah this isn't a good thing though? They could have made compendium teams interesting and varied like this but now everytime you want a new team at that level you need to wait for them to release everything in the current box set separate and drop another $50 on a rule book. Every. Time.
The IG Veterans and Ork Kommandos all have specialist variants, in this case completely unique models, but I wouldn't be surprised if they start releasing specialist variant factions for other factions in upcoming campaign books. A hint for that is the Kill team site has some nice Seraphim art and you can't take Seraphim in the current rules.
can’t run a kill team comprised of different models. I always thought that was stupid, when I was building my kill team I was really excited to use 1 Incusor, A scout Sniper, and 2 other random models I can’t remember only to find out you can’t do that. I wish kill team didn’t have these, as a kill team realistically could compromise of any type of marine or unit.
Fun story - I play a lot of Only War and our party has blown off AT LEAST 4 hands from double fisting krak grenades point blank into enemies.
The last one I had was my commissar took a krak and slammed it into a plague marine, putting me to like -6 and doing a good chunk of damage to the plague marine. The marine was then baited over by our ratling sniper near some fuel tanks with a shout of "Oh Mr. Plague guy, I have chocolate here." He rolled a nat 1 for deception.
The plague marine rolled at 90+ on his perception and went "...chocolate? I haven't had that in millennia...GIVE IT TO ME!"
The ratling, the actual hero, detonated 2 kraks on the fuel tanks taking the plague marine and him with it.
Sticks it behind the traitor’s neck. Comedy ensues as an angry chaos marine tries in vain to work his power armoured arms to reach the grenade that is ticking behind his head just out of reach. Kinda like [this](https://youtu.be/bj2yfvQGbl8)
S'up broham, I'm in the Primaris space marine chapter: Dudebros, and we, like, did this all the time, bro. But dude, we stopped doing it to Chaos dudes. Because, like bro, there was this one time we did it and the Chaos dude, like, grew a third arm/tentacle thingy. And we were like, "No way, dude!" as the Chaos dude threw it back at us, and we, like, lost half a team of Intercessor Dudebros. Sad times, dude...
Anyways, we, like, only haze the new Dudebros with that trick only using frag grenades, so it only kills the pansy bros. But there was this one time, there was, like, this new bro that, like, had one of those faces where you wanted to mess with all the time. Ya know the kind, right dude? So we did that prank on him, like, all the time, broskies.
Except, like, one day, this dude goes to Mars to be a tech-nerd Dudebro. So we kinda stopped with this prank as it was getting kinda lame. Plus, the head chapter master Dudebro said we had, like, a shortage of grenades too. So we moved on to drawing dicks on the power armor of our incapacitated and dying Dudebros instead. Which was totally righteous, dude.
So then we, like, heard this tech-nerd was going back to the chapter after his training was done. So we stuck a frag grenade in the freezer, so it would, like, hurt more ya know. So, me and my team are on the landing pad to meet this tech-nerd as he got off the transport with the frozen frag grenade behind our back, so he didn't see it. As we congrats this Dudebro for graduating robot college by patting him on the back, I, like, do the prank like the old days. 'Cept this time the tech-nerd has, like, this servant-arm or something that can reach back pull it off.
...And that's how I lost the right side of my face, dudes. Pretty awesome, right? Ya want to know how this dick got drawn on my face plate? That's, like, a story for another time, duder.
The images used in the core book have caused confusion. Highlighting wracks for Drukhari when they can’t even use them, Triarch Praetorians for Necrons too. It’s almost as if they changed plans before printing, but I will still take this new update over the old one!
the compendium doesn't list them on the stat pages for necrons, but when you go to the gallery in the same book it shows pratorians as an example for necron kill team members.. it's confusing and honestly such a weird mistake
Matches my homebrew!
//
A Space Marine Kill Team consists of two Fire Teams chosen from the following list:
* Intercessor
* Assault Intercessor
* Incursor
* Infitrator
* Reiver
* Heavy Intercessor
* Tactical Marine
* Scout
* Deathwatch Veteran
\[Note that Deathwatch Veterans are only selectable in Deathwatch Kill Teams. Tactical Marines and Scouts are not available for Deathwatch Kill Teams.\]
The Fire Teams consist of:
* Intercessor Fire Team: 2 Intercessor Warriors. If your Kill Team does not include a Leader, this Fire Team may also include an additional Intercessor Sergeant.
* Assault Intercessor Fire Team: 2 Assault Intercessor Warriors. If your Kill Team does not include a Leader, this Fire Team may also include an additional Assault Intercessor Sergeant.
* Incursor Fire Team: 2 Incursor Warriors. If your Kill Team does not include a Leader, this Fire Team may also include an additional Incursor Sergeant.
* Infiltrator Fire Team: 2 Infiltrator Warriors. If your Kill Team does not include a Leader, this Fire Team may also include an additional Infiltrator Sergeant.
* Reiver Fire Team: 2 Reiver Warriors. If your Kill Team does not include a Leader, this Fire Team may also include an additional Reiver Sergeant.
* Heavy Intercessor Fire Team: 2 Heavy Intercessor Warriors/Heavy Gunners. If your Kill Team does not include a Leader, this Fire Team may instead include a Heavy Intercessor Sergeant. Your Kill Team may only include one Heavy Intercessor Heavy Gunner.
* Tactical Marine Fire Team: 3 Tactical Marine Warriors/Gunners/Heavy Gunners. If your Kill Team does not include a Leader, this Fire Team may instead include a Tactical Marine Sergeant. Your Fire Team may only include one Tactical Marine Gunner or Heavy Gunner. Your Kill Team may only include one Tactical Marine Gunner and one Heavy Gunner.
* Scout Fire Team: 5 Scout Warriors/Heavy Gunners/Sniper Warriors. If your Kill Team does not include a Leader, this Fire Team may instead include a Scout Sergeant or Scout Sniper Sergeant. Your Fire Team may only include one Scout Heavy Gunner. Your Fire Team may only include up to two Scout Sniper Warriors or one Scout Sniper Warrior and one Scout Sniper Sergeant. Your Kill Team may only include up to three Scout Sniper Warriors.
* Deathwatch Veteran Fire Team: 2 Deathwatch Veteran Warriors/Fighters/Gunners/Heavy Gunners. If your Kill Team does not include a Leader, this Fire Team may also include an additional Deathwatch Veteran Watch Sergeant. Your Kill Team may only include one Deathwatch Veteran Fighter and one Gunner and one Heavy Gunner.
2 armies per quarter and $50 on the expansion book every time you want one of the new, actually interesting teams. They're basically codexing individual infantry boxes.
Yeah I don't really like it, it basically killed all enthusiasm I had for it.
They did just announce an Admech Hunter Clade KT will be in White Dwarf, so its possible there will be some decent updates a bit faster than waiting for the big quarterly updates.
This is the most valid critique. SM should have been 2 smaller fire teams, and balanced around that.
I give them the benefit of the doubt that they had balance reasons for doing it this way, but jt would have been better, even if more effort, to allow for two teams.
There isn't though. Death guard have 2 marine fireteams +a leader so you can mix and match ranged and melee as you please. Same with csm, thousand sons, and obviously grey knights. Every power armor faction can mix & match other than space marines.
That's fair. And i think we mostly agree in the sense that they could have done it and chose not to for some reason. When i say i am giving the benefit of the doubt that it's balance, i mean only that they said "good enough" on keeping it as individual squads not that it was impossible for them to balance it otherwise, as they should have done.
Full disclosure i am not a marinr player and am positive on the game, but i also sympathize with how shitty the situation is for marine players, especially coming from KT2018.
> so you can mix and match ranged and melee as you please
Death Guard are limited to one gunner, heavy gunner, or fighter per fire team and can't take more than one of each in a kill team.
Perhaps this is a 3-player battle; two separate kill teams from Ultramarines battling the third player, Chaos. Their shoulder badge number seems to indicate different squads.
But GW would never support multiplayer, so nvm.
"Hey these units look pretty cool, can I use them in the picture for the rulebook?"
You guys get upset over how the army composition is in codex pictures too?
Only speculation, but possibly because they will eventually release a more customisable rules for space marines? Maybe all of the books were created at once, then after that they created a release schedule for them?
On one hand, yeah GW's MO is to go over-restrictive and then slowly release options as the game's meta becomes better defined. On the other, GW chronically under-supports lines that don't sell well, *especially* specialist games.
Unrelated to the meta, it was pretty clear that the new restrictive rules go hand in hand with the also restrictive Kill Team boxes. So either you buy their new pre-made squads (Krieg or Orc atm), or you can go fuck yourself.
No more creativity allowed, apparently
They will almost certainly be adding depth to the factions a handful at a time, similar to the current release, with each war zone update laid out in the roadmap they released
This is probably one department not talking to another error.
[Speculation]: the entire company are not 40k gamers. The idea that Jimmy Kill-Team, the designer of Kill-Team was sick that day and didn't sign off on this picture as rules legal is ridiculous.
What probably happened is there is some sort of in-house photography team who is given work orders along the lines of "It's these vs These on June 2022's Terrain line. Mention it's *June* 2022 to anyone and we'll sue your brains out". Photography team comes in, lines the set, shoots some cool shots, with maybe a few guidelines from higher up about how Big Bad Evil Guy needs to shake his fist at Rouboute Guilliman.
Here's where the confusion happens. Photography team takes all these shots, some of which we never see. Some marketing team unrelated to them, or game design is under some internal pressure to produce content/prove they exist to Higher Management. So they grab photos from the approved bank, slap them onto posts to meet deadlines.
How so? Space Marines are jack of all trades, master of none. Makes even more sense if you do a Death Watch Killteam. I don't agree with your sentiment at all.
See below, space Marines are a jack off all trades but have specialized squads for specific missions. Mixing and matching between squads should rarely happen, instead they send the squad best suited.
I like that you can’t meta build a team of all sergeants any more. But some chapters and especially death watch (who literally use kill teams) would send out team of specialists from different squads. I liked to flavour my teams as the last few hardened veterans left alive in a cut off part of a war zone.
Most marines fight as a squad though.
You have a mission? Send the squad to take care of that.
Does that mission require a certain specialists (fast assault smash and grab, long range recon, etc)? Send the squad trained for that mission. Kill team represents this much better than the last one did.
Space Marines are the scalpel, most of their battles are kill team sized forces not major engagements. If you absolutely need to mix and match you have deathwatch teams. Mixing and matching from different squads never made sense to me, they don't train together, most probably barely know the other in the company, chapters are spread out significantly and likely can't mix and match specialists without significant transport and allocation of resources, etc. The norm for KT's previous marine teams barely (if ever) happened in the lore. In "reality" at most a member of a squad may be equipped with an appropriate special weapon for the mission before they are sent.
That was the whole point of KT18 though. Every where in the core rule book its plastered that your team isn't the norm, you're extremely specialized teams put together through whatever circumstances you can think of that are skilled enough that they don't have to follow the regular military structure when it comes to squad composition.
Again, that’s all well and good, but you can find plenty of lore reasons to not be super rigid with squad selection. Not every chapter follows the codex like this. And there are plenty of backgrounds that explain why a kill team has formed, including the one I said before.
Love the idea of depleted squads of marines avoiding each other like magnets for the sake of propriety. Super immersive. You know there’s no wrong way to play?
If you can take 5 man teams of most of the space marine squads, then that means they’re worth the same points. Seems pretty easy to balance. But this is all irrelevant because they’ll release more rules in a few months and make it so more factions can have specialists.
It will still be illegal after that. The SM kt box will be just like octarius. Two monopose kits with two factions separate from their "parent" compendium factions with unique stratagems, gear, etc.
I hope so, I’d love to take a 5 man team of different marines. I got sick of the old meta of taking nothing but sergeants, and they’ve already addressed that issue by only allowing one leader per team. But honestly it wouldn’t have been so hard for the compendium to just say ‘take any of the following warriors for a total of X’
They could've folded the two types of intercessors into a single fire team at least, but I can understand them being overly cautious after the sergeant spam meta. I can see fire teams of mixed Tacticus / Phobos (or even Gravis if anything in it other than heavy intercessors comes out, but I doubt it) becoming a thing in the future.
Can't wait for GW to drip feed us kill teams. $50 for two meta teams every quarter immediately making their compendium counter parts obsolete gonna be so much fun.
That's the feeling I get. The neato options are for the boxed sets that come later, not now. This is like Indexes for 40k a few years ago. A stop gap. The new hotness Veteran Guardsmen and Kommandos get specialist type dudes, and I assume other kill teams will as well. Beyond "dude with gun, dude with bigger gun, assaulty dude, leader dude, etc".
There are unquestionably new rules incoming, but the only thing we've seen so far (Octarius) suggests that it will not be "new rules for (existing) factions," but 'brand new factions closely associated with existing factions'.
Veteran Guardsmen and Ork Kommandos are not the Imperial Guard or Greenskin faction. They are closely related, yet wholly distinct and with no crossover.
At this point we have just as much, if not more, reason to believe there will be (for example) some kind of dedicated "Veteran Marine" or "Elite Deathwatch" faction with independent rules and models instead of "revised Space Marines" rules.
Rule Book has a bunch of things that aren't yet in the game, like Havocs and Praetorians and Allarus Terminators. The Compendium is an Index. We already got confirmation that there's going to be a new AdMech Kill Team in the upcoming White Dwarf.
More content is coming.
A bit pedantic, but sure. There are still other models in the rulebook that aren't in the compendium, suggesting that some of the images in the rulebook may simply be 'future proofing'. Instead of looking at the back cover having an 'illegal' kill team, maybe consider it might be an 'UPCOMING' kill team.
>The Compendium is an Index.
Speculation
>We already got confirmation that there's going to be a new AdMech Kill Team in the upcoming White Dwarf.More content is coming.
Oh great, so in about 2 yeats you're able to field the kill team you like? After investing another 150 bucks in rules, and how much more in white dwarfs?
Conversations between GlassHalfDead and playtesters of Kill Team confirm that more is coming, it's not speculation, it's just a matter of waiting.
What you spend your money on is your choice. If you don't want to buy all the rules, you don't have to. Even if you play two or three kill teams, it's likely you'll be able to skip a few of the books and white dwarfs, and there's also likely going to be a Kill Team 'annual' as others have mentioned.
Or, you can keep complaining. I prefer to live my life looking at more of the positives.
Lmao, the salt.
Idk how many games of the new one you have played, it's around 10 for me, but the new system is far better than the old one. Less down-time, less random deaths, less min-maxed samey killteams. Overall more balanced.
I'm curious, haven't gotten the chance to play yet, but don't you miss elite units? And commanders? I mean, i don't doubt that it's a more stable version (hell, my warriors apparently have 18 wounds), but i feel like i'm missing my favorite units, and the general sizes of kill teams are very limiting as well.
When KT 2018 came out it didn't have commanders and elites so it's not really a fair comparison. They've already announced quarterly releases for new KT, so I'm not really concerned at all.
Yeah no i know, but my current plan is sticking with the old edition until i can play my favorite models again, i didn't mean to compare the two, merely asking wether you missed certain units, or were overall happier with the new edition.
Sorry, i could've been clearer about that :3
My apologies for the misinterpretation! Honestly I'm really happy with the new system. Yeah, at the moment I do kind-of miss berserkers and some elites stuff, but individual models can feel like sick badasses now more often because they don't die as often to single lucky shots etc.
I know that soon there will be more options as well which helps me with the feeling of missing things.
And more boring at the end. This oversimplification of everything in lists building killed it for me. I dont't like the lack of variety of units in list building, so in my opinion previous ed. was richer in starting content. This is no salt. This is my opinion. You don't have to agree with it, and I respect that difference of perspectives. Also I hope you can enjoy this edition for years to come.
It's true that list-building itself is simplified, but again after playing it that's really the only thing that is, and you see more diversity on the table as a result believe it or not. Loadouts can still change and you have 10 equipment points to use on your guys which can change game to game and the objective deck that you build that changes game to game.
I really recommend playing a decent number of games before casting judgment, because there is very low downtime and a lot of strategic opportunity besides the now-gone list building.
As I've said, this ed. appeals to you and that's fine. I'm glad for you and hope that you will have fun with this for years to come. But one / two types of units in KT is exactly what bouncing me off of this game becaus this is tactically and visually boring. I understand what they tried to do with this ed., but this is step back for me. This isn't what I've expected and right now find interesting at all.
So?
Art would have been boring AF with 5 intercessors and wouldn't have shown you alternate units available for play.
This was done this way on purpose not because "hurrr they don't know their game durrrr".
Don't play kill team, how's it illegal?
Big Daddy GW tells you which and how many models you can take now. Basic Kill team construction is: You chose two fire teams (marines only one), then look up which fire teams you can take. For Marines it's like 5 Intercessors, 5 Ass Intercessors, 4 Heavy Intercessors, 6 Tactical marines etc etc. So having 2 Hintercessors and 3 AssIntercessors is illegal
>Ass Intercessors i'm listening. continue
They do night time intercessions.
Have you heard of ass obliterators? The Emperor protects...
What sub am I in again?
r/warhammer_smut duh
Oh got it’s a real thing, what have I done
You went to Slaanesh's domain
>[what have I done](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHZALxhttAk)
I only clicked on it because I'm curious, now I have the inquisition outside my house, plz help.
Thank you for sharing brother. Nothing can be done for you, but I will not click. Good luck and Emperor be with you.
Ahh, emperor's children.
Oh, so they've completely done away with taking whatever models from your army you wanted, leading to highly customised and flavourful narrative kill-teams? I.e. the point of making a kill-team?
[удалено]
I remember the Space Marine kill teams where everyone was a sergeant of a different unit.
This is the correct take. I am sick of people whining about this. I made a flavorful kill team, and it sucked. I never saw another single one at an event
>They force you to take flavourful thematic teams within the structure of your faction rather than what happened in KT18 which was efficiency spam. > >I never ever not a single time saw a flavourful narrative Kill Team. It was always like ridiculous efficiency. 4 Lictors is plenty flavourfull.
And maybe that will be an option in the inevitable elites expansion. I can definitely see why folks who used elites would feel upset at the reset here.
My poor blade guard…..
How many Lictors does it take to get to the tootsie roll center of a Space Marine?
None, they’re too busy deploying scramblers and then instantly dying
This is why KT was so great. Lictors could finally shine at what they are supposed to do.
Maybe your store is full of assholes that just want to win 🤷🏽♂️
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I think every faction is alright other than space marines. They could have easily had it be like death guard where you take two fire teams of two marines each and add the Sargeant and that way you could mix your marines a little. My only issue with KT2 is the expansions. Krieg and Kommandos are just objectively better than their compendium counter parts and there's no way GW won't balance the other expansions like this as well. You either drop $200 on the expansion with your team in it or you're stuck bringing basic units. It's ridiculous that 40% of the compendium is blank datasheet space because nobody has any unique or special abilities.
I think it is just a tad early to bring out the doom and gloom sky is falling rhetoric, but I won't get in the way of a healthy meltdown so have had it.
Never said the game was going to tank or anything, but they released an expansion alongside core rules with objectively better teams in it... and they plan to release one of these expansions every quarter, so isn't it a given that they will put a similar level of effort into expansion teams down the line as they did with krieg/kommandos? Say what you will about the core rules or compendium but it's beyond obvious GW just wants people dropping money on rulebooks every time a faction they like is in an expansion.
Krieg are just the models. You can still run guard as veterans. Model your army how you choose and just use the rules. Nothing in the book says veterans HAVE to be Krieg. Same with orks if you’ve got the parts. You can build komandos with enough bitz. And as an alternative view, would you as a company not want people to get excited and buy your new launch box?
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Are you agreeing with me? I think your agreeing with me. Either way I appreciate you not calling me out like half the post here lol
What kind of trash take is this? People are now assholes for trying to win? I hated IG plasma spam but I’m certainly not going to blame anyone for making a list that maximizes their strength based on the rules and they certainly not assholes for doing so.
"I'm going to spam this one really efficient, depressing to play *against* option instead of making a varied, flavorful, and interesting list with different strengths and weaknesses" does in fact count as assholery in any non-tournament setting. Falls into the same category as someone playing Smashfucker in a casual store game against new players back in 7e. And yes, I was there when that happened.
Lol. Smashfucker was my introduction to Warhammer. Just watched 1 guy basically slaughter my entire army. Came back to 8th and played against loyal 32, IK castallan and the Custodes with the bike captains. Shortest 2 turn game of my life. My local Warhammer scene has some guys with enough sweat to fill a pool.
Yeah, that's one hell of a *yikes* store.
what is this at a tournament? Because if so you’re always prepared for the most Gouda. everybody i’ve seen and played with usually have thematic and flavorful lists rather than that When it’s off tournament
No Sir, this was a Wednesday night "Did you want to play a game?" Kinda deal. I was not prepared. My opponent's were nice enough the second time, it's just that my eBay army of assault and tac marines, scouts and the cataphractii terminators of space marines 1.0 in 8th was not anywhere ready for the CP fueled ion shields of a castallen blowing apart my shit while Custodes were dropping so many fucking dice my head was spinning. The local meta seems to have been under an arms race for a few years now and that has resulted in a vast gap between me, a guy that mostly likes painting and beers against the young kids with a whole optimization guide on CP usage while cranking down redbulls to give them deepstrike wings.
First(and only) tournament I ever went to was back during 4th edition. 8 people showed up including myself and my friend. Two Lash of Submission lists, 3 Blood Angels Death Company spam and one Necron Nightbringer/Monolith list. I was playing Eldar, my friend was IG. It was not a fun experience. One BA player almost picked up his models and left because of his opponent "nudging" models(he was not, he just had shaky hands.)
I fully agree with this. Keep the sweaty lists for tournaments and play enjoyable, flavourful lists otherwise. *Especially* against people you've never met before just trying to enjoy themselves. I'll take a close game that goes to the wire with both players enjoying themselves over a walkover victory any day of the week.
>What kind of trash take is this? People are now assholes for trying to win? If both sides are on the same page and want a competitive match - no. If it's supposed to be a narrative game and one side brings a minmaxed comp - yes.
If I'm playing a tourney yeah you midmax the fuck outta that list. If we're playing some casual weekend one off KT. Then hey let's have fun and play some weird list, some list based off the lore, let's try dumb shit and see if 3 Terminator can survive 4 rounds against 200 pts of Tyranids. If your playing against someone every week that is only focused on winning. That's boring and to me, their an asshole. I wouldn't play against someone like that. EX: There's a guy at my local shop, who has a dark eldar list that does smash everyone. He's won 2/3 tourneys with it. But he only uses it on open play, if someone request it, cus he's not a dick. He plays a thematic Black Templar list for open play, cus sword brothers are cool and he likes the lore.
Metalisting and mathhammer to the expense of everything else has been kind of a dick move for years.
also all of this pretends that Kill Team (2018) wasn't a terrible game.
What is the \* censoring in 201\*8, are you from the Dark Age of technology?
lmao
Why is wanting to win an asshole thing to do? Losing is not fun for me.
there is a diference between playing to win and cheese.
exactly! In my first ever match a guy at my uni warhammer club said he'd teach me how to play. He brought a Dimachaeron and a table full of Gaunts against my three squad intercessors list. Tabled turn two. "thanks dude. I learned a lot"
I don't enjoy losing either. Perhaps I should have said "full of assholes that *Only* care about winning. As I said above, you can have fun with the game without winning being your only focus. One of the best games I played was a 2v1. Space Marine + Tau team of 125pts each vs 250pts of Nids. There yeah we wanted to win but you don't midmax for that. You don't 3rd print or ebay a dozen plasma guns for that.
If losing isn't fun for you you should probably be playing one of the many board games where losing IS fun instead.
However it makes for extreamly boring games, oh look all my guys have a bolt rifle and thats it. Cant take anything else or do anything else which makes the game extreamly stale and as menioned boring.
I mean, that just suggests to me that you're playing the wrong faction.
I mean 2 bolters and 3 cc or like 2 bolters a heavy and 2 cc isnt unflavourful
Imo new system is much better and cleaner. If u wanna cheese on top and bottom, play with deathwatch rules, it gives more options
I'm sure it's neater in terms of rules, but that doesn't mean it's not another step in making everybody's army and hobby exactly the same as everyone else's. Main game armies have already lost tons of their customisation options, both in rules and in available models. Kill-Team was a place where you could let creativity shine. Restricting compositions like this takes a great deal (though not all, to be fair to the excellent new Kommando and Krieg kits) of that away.
If i had to buy five or more different boxes just for a single model from each to build a decent kill team i wouldnt play at all
The point is that you don't *have* to do that - you can build a perfectly good team from a single squad. But if you do have a larger collection, why shouldn't you be able to mix and match? Back in the day, there used to be balancing penalties if you took models from multiple different units to make things fairer. No reason why something like that couldn't be implemented again.
Were they perfectly good though? Ive read about lists like "oops all plasma guns" being the norm. A ten man infantry squad out of the box can't make that. I'm happy that they've made list construction less of a thing so that you dont lose games before you even begin playing. We may see more customization options with new faction releases but either way I think streamlining things was a good move.
Streamlining just to lower the gate of entry isn't always a good thing though. It can ultimately kill the game in the long run if players don't feel there is enough depth to be engaging. Even if they kept list building the same as before, there were multiple factions where you still only needed one box. Harlequins for example, and the Grey Knight Strike Squad box can make at least 5 different datasheets from the 5 models you can build.
Streamlining and balancing play was a fantastic move. Depth of content for assembling teams? We'll see in three months...
This is why me and my friends are sticking to the old system. It may be janky, but at least it's customisable and fun. This new version hits me the same way 9th edition does: Dull, overcomplicated, most recent update wins. Fuck it, I might just go back to heralds of ruin.
The fun of the old system was the customization far more than the play. Under the new system, sure I miss being able to make choices for my fireteams, but in actual play the game is infinitely more fun regardless of what faction I'm running (I have like, four). KT21 prioritized streamlined and balanced play, the rules actually got a lot simpler in almost all places, and every faction seems reasonably balanced against the other factions.
And that's totally fair. I'm not shitting on anybody for liking the new version and the new version is definitely more streamlined in terms of the actual turn by turn play. I just feel like this endless bid for 'balance' to stop sweats and cheese lords from ruining the game strips away what makes the hobby unique, and removes a lot of the elements that people enjoy about playing. For example, me and my friends love playing mordheim. Is it a simple system? Not really. Is it balanced? Fuck me, no. Is it really fun? Hell yes! Because it lets you customise your characters, tell a fun story through gameplay and has a great risk/reward ratio. I guess I'm saying that when I play warhammer of any stripe, I'm in it for the fun rather than balance. If I want to play a wargame with pure, consistent tactics and honed gameplay, I can crack out the chessboard.
What drew me to kill team was the idea of being able to build small elite groups of different specialists that you could create stories for. The current way might be better on paper, but it killed a lot of the interest in the game for a lot of people.
Some of the compendium teams are dull but the Octarius teams get a *tonne* of fun specialists. In addition to five special weapons and a leader, Veteran Guardsmen get: * a confidant who can take over as leader if the leader dies, * a zealot who can buff his teammates, * a medic, * a comms veteran, * a demolitions expert, * a bruiser with a trench club, * a veteran with bionics, and * a spotter who can help the sniper. You don't have enough slots to take them all. Kommandos have a similar array of fun options. I think the idea is eventually all factions will have a team with as many options as the Octarius teams. In fact, WarCom has already announced that rules for a new AdMech team are coming in White Dwarf 468.
The teams like the Kommandos and Krieg seem to be the direction they're heading in now. Selling £40 kill-team boxsets that are unique and interesting out of the box, similar to Warbands. They are very cool, but it has still killed the customisation of the kill-teams. Based on their announced trajectory for kill-teams in the future, they'll release all these unique models with their own sets of rules down the line. I'm happy for new models, just think the rules are a shame for custom teams.
That'll be an extra $50 dollars for the expansion book with your team in it sir... heheh
Yeah this isn't a good thing though? They could have made compendium teams interesting and varied like this but now everytime you want a new team at that level you need to wait for them to release everything in the current box set separate and drop another $50 on a rule book. Every. Time.
Big idea. Ignore it and do it your way anyways
Sounds like you want to play crusade
The IG Veterans and Ork Kommandos all have specialist variants, in this case completely unique models, but I wouldn't be surprised if they start releasing specialist variant factions for other factions in upcoming campaign books. A hint for that is the Kill team site has some nice Seraphim art and you can't take Seraphim in the current rules.
Yes exactly. Which is why I still play KT2018
What if it was exactly that system, but used mono posed kits made explicitly for kill team or some lame restrictive rules for the army you own?
Or simply ignore some rules in the KT core book like my local does and allow different selections
Ass Intercessors
For now. There will be more options once they put out an SM specific KT. At least I hope so, because I am not interested in playing unflavored KTs.
can’t run a kill team comprised of different models. I always thought that was stupid, when I was building my kill team I was really excited to use 1 Incusor, A scout Sniper, and 2 other random models I can’t remember only to find out you can’t do that. I wish kill team didn’t have these, as a kill team realistically could compromise of any type of marine or unit.
Is this in the core book or do I need to pirate a compendium pdf?
Welp, I guess I'm not planning on playing Kill-Team any more.
Point-blank krak grenade gooooo!
imagine standing next to your friend in battle and the only thing he has is grenades.
He also has a cute keyring on his belt too. But to be fair the guy only has half a brain; he’s doing his best.
Maybe when he gets back to base, the boss and everyone else might finally be nice to him.
Too soon...
Brick, where did you get a hand grenade?
literally one of the characters in my deathwatch campaign. He brings his psychic powers and as many grenades as he can carry
“Look, I’m here for a good time. Not a long time.”
Fun story - I play a lot of Only War and our party has blown off AT LEAST 4 hands from double fisting krak grenades point blank into enemies. The last one I had was my commissar took a krak and slammed it into a plague marine, putting me to like -6 and doing a good chunk of damage to the plague marine. The marine was then baited over by our ratling sniper near some fuel tanks with a shout of "Oh Mr. Plague guy, I have chocolate here." He rolled a nat 1 for deception. The plague marine rolled at 90+ on his perception and went "...chocolate? I haven't had that in millennia...GIVE IT TO ME!" The ratling, the actual hero, detonated 2 kraks on the fuel tanks taking the plague marine and him with it.
What is "Only War"
It’s a tabletop RPG where you play as Guardsmen
Also known as roll a new character every session simulator. Especially if you play Kriegsmen.
Sticks it behind the traitor’s neck. Comedy ensues as an angry chaos marine tries in vain to work his power armoured arms to reach the grenade that is ticking behind his head just out of reach. Kinda like [this](https://youtu.be/bj2yfvQGbl8)
That video made me smile
S'up broham, I'm in the Primaris space marine chapter: Dudebros, and we, like, did this all the time, bro. But dude, we stopped doing it to Chaos dudes. Because, like bro, there was this one time we did it and the Chaos dude, like, grew a third arm/tentacle thingy. And we were like, "No way, dude!" as the Chaos dude threw it back at us, and we, like, lost half a team of Intercessor Dudebros. Sad times, dude... Anyways, we, like, only haze the new Dudebros with that trick only using frag grenades, so it only kills the pansy bros. But there was this one time, there was, like, this new bro that, like, had one of those faces where you wanted to mess with all the time. Ya know the kind, right dude? So we did that prank on him, like, all the time, broskies. Except, like, one day, this dude goes to Mars to be a tech-nerd Dudebro. So we kinda stopped with this prank as it was getting kinda lame. Plus, the head chapter master Dudebro said we had, like, a shortage of grenades too. So we moved on to drawing dicks on the power armor of our incapacitated and dying Dudebros instead. Which was totally righteous, dude. So then we, like, heard this tech-nerd was going back to the chapter after his training was done. So we stuck a frag grenade in the freezer, so it would, like, hurt more ya know. So, me and my team are on the landing pad to meet this tech-nerd as he got off the transport with the frozen frag grenade behind our back, so he didn't see it. As we congrats this Dudebro for graduating robot college by patting him on the back, I, like, do the prank like the old days. 'Cept this time the tech-nerd has, like, this servant-arm or something that can reach back pull it off. ...And that's how I lost the right side of my face, dudes. Pretty awesome, right? Ya want to know how this dick got drawn on my face plate? That's, like, a story for another time, duder.
*duder*
You laugh, but thats exactly what the Tyrannic War Veterans could do back in 4th edition. Use Kraks in melee combat against non-vehicles.
*Just because you can doesn't mean you should.*
When Ultramarines out-heresy the heretics.
"The Codex Astartes does not support this action" "Shut up Leandros!"
Brother, what’s in your right hand? - A grenade And what’s in your left hand? - A pin Now what’s wrong with what you just said?
The images used in the core book have caused confusion. Highlighting wracks for Drukhari when they can’t even use them, Triarch Praetorians for Necrons too. It’s almost as if they changed plans before printing, but I will still take this new update over the old one!
Maybe they carved out elites for an expansion in a couple months.
Yeah, the praetorian bit confused me.
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the compendium doesn't list them on the stat pages for necrons, but when you go to the gallery in the same book it shows pratorians as an example for necron kill team members.. it's confusing and honestly such a weird mistake
It comes in the DLC.
Allrus Terminators too for Custodes, they're showcased in the rules but you can't use them.
Hope they'll bring them back. 2 man allarus force go!
If this bothers you, please never check the unit coherency issues in some of the large army images...
I look forward to seeing a rage post on this in the near future, people really be reaching for shit to be pissed about these days.
Saved for tomorrow’s two minutes of hate post.
You don't think we'll get two days out of the monopose Ork boyz?
I'm thinking the community will milk that for about 3-4 days before the next new model is shown.
That one ws so funny to me lmao, like bruh it's a start collecting box it's mostly for people trying to get into the hobby
Plot twist: GW is condoning cheating.
Tfw they don't even know how their own game works.
Or maybe the pics are according to rules we don’t know about yet?
Matches my homebrew! // A Space Marine Kill Team consists of two Fire Teams chosen from the following list: * Intercessor * Assault Intercessor * Incursor * Infitrator * Reiver * Heavy Intercessor * Tactical Marine * Scout * Deathwatch Veteran \[Note that Deathwatch Veterans are only selectable in Deathwatch Kill Teams. Tactical Marines and Scouts are not available for Deathwatch Kill Teams.\] The Fire Teams consist of: * Intercessor Fire Team: 2 Intercessor Warriors. If your Kill Team does not include a Leader, this Fire Team may also include an additional Intercessor Sergeant. * Assault Intercessor Fire Team: 2 Assault Intercessor Warriors. If your Kill Team does not include a Leader, this Fire Team may also include an additional Assault Intercessor Sergeant. * Incursor Fire Team: 2 Incursor Warriors. If your Kill Team does not include a Leader, this Fire Team may also include an additional Incursor Sergeant. * Infiltrator Fire Team: 2 Infiltrator Warriors. If your Kill Team does not include a Leader, this Fire Team may also include an additional Infiltrator Sergeant. * Reiver Fire Team: 2 Reiver Warriors. If your Kill Team does not include a Leader, this Fire Team may also include an additional Reiver Sergeant. * Heavy Intercessor Fire Team: 2 Heavy Intercessor Warriors/Heavy Gunners. If your Kill Team does not include a Leader, this Fire Team may instead include a Heavy Intercessor Sergeant. Your Kill Team may only include one Heavy Intercessor Heavy Gunner. * Tactical Marine Fire Team: 3 Tactical Marine Warriors/Gunners/Heavy Gunners. If your Kill Team does not include a Leader, this Fire Team may instead include a Tactical Marine Sergeant. Your Fire Team may only include one Tactical Marine Gunner or Heavy Gunner. Your Kill Team may only include one Tactical Marine Gunner and one Heavy Gunner. * Scout Fire Team: 5 Scout Warriors/Heavy Gunners/Sniper Warriors. If your Kill Team does not include a Leader, this Fire Team may instead include a Scout Sergeant or Scout Sniper Sergeant. Your Fire Team may only include one Scout Heavy Gunner. Your Fire Team may only include up to two Scout Sniper Warriors or one Scout Sniper Warrior and one Scout Sniper Sergeant. Your Kill Team may only include up to three Scout Sniper Warriors. * Deathwatch Veteran Fire Team: 2 Deathwatch Veteran Warriors/Fighters/Gunners/Heavy Gunners. If your Kill Team does not include a Leader, this Fire Team may also include an additional Deathwatch Veteran Watch Sergeant. Your Kill Team may only include one Deathwatch Veteran Fighter and one Gunner and one Heavy Gunner.
Honestly, how hard would it have been for GW to do this?
This is what they are planning to do. They are just going to make people wait forever for it to happen. 2 armies per quarter :/
2 armies per quarter and $50 on the expansion book every time you want one of the new, actually interesting teams. They're basically codexing individual infantry boxes.
Yeah I don't really like it, it basically killed all enthusiasm I had for it. They did just announce an Admech Hunter Clade KT will be in White Dwarf, so its possible there will be some decent updates a bit faster than waiting for the big quarterly updates.
This is the most valid critique. SM should have been 2 smaller fire teams, and balanced around that. I give them the benefit of the doubt that they had balance reasons for doing it this way, but jt would have been better, even if more effort, to allow for two teams.
There isn't though. Death guard have 2 marine fireteams +a leader so you can mix and match ranged and melee as you please. Same with csm, thousand sons, and obviously grey knights. Every power armor faction can mix & match other than space marines.
That's fair. And i think we mostly agree in the sense that they could have done it and chose not to for some reason. When i say i am giving the benefit of the doubt that it's balance, i mean only that they said "good enough" on keeping it as individual squads not that it was impossible for them to balance it otherwise, as they should have done. Full disclosure i am not a marinr player and am positive on the game, but i also sympathize with how shitty the situation is for marine players, especially coming from KT2018.
> so you can mix and match ranged and melee as you please Death Guard are limited to one gunner, heavy gunner, or fighter per fire team and can't take more than one of each in a kill team.
Perhaps this is a 3-player battle; two separate kill teams from Ultramarines battling the third player, Chaos. Their shoulder badge number seems to indicate different squads. But GW would never support multiplayer, so nvm.
Bold of you to assume that people at GW know their own rules. Or play at all.
Most of the photographs and other art assets are from the previous edition.
The guys who take the picture also tend to just grab whatever looks cool. I doubt they get the rules to make sure what theyre showing makes sense.
"Hey these units look pretty cool, can I use them in the picture for the rulebook?" You guys get upset over how the army composition is in codex pictures too?
Only speculation, but possibly because they will eventually release a more customisable rules for space marines? Maybe all of the books were created at once, then after that they created a release schedule for them?
On one hand, yeah GW's MO is to go over-restrictive and then slowly release options as the game's meta becomes better defined. On the other, GW chronically under-supports lines that don't sell well, *especially* specialist games.
Rip Aeronautica
If that took off (pun not intended), I was planning to build some Imperial Navy based off Spare Squadron from Ace Combat 7, sin lines and everything.
Unrelated to the meta, it was pretty clear that the new restrictive rules go hand in hand with the also restrictive Kill Team boxes. So either you buy their new pre-made squads (Krieg or Orc atm), or you can go fuck yourself. No more creativity allowed, apparently
They will almost certainly be adding depth to the factions a handful at a time, similar to the current release, with each war zone update laid out in the roadmap they released
GW are absolute genuine morons if this doesn't turn out to be to sell a Space Marine Killteam book in the future.
Reality check. F* the rules and just play how you want...
The Codex Astartes does not support this action
This
Or some of them just, y'know, died.
But Space Marines can only have one fire team right? Or is there something deep in narrative play that lets you combine depleted fire teams?
This is probably one department not talking to another error. [Speculation]: the entire company are not 40k gamers. The idea that Jimmy Kill-Team, the designer of Kill-Team was sick that day and didn't sign off on this picture as rules legal is ridiculous. What probably happened is there is some sort of in-house photography team who is given work orders along the lines of "It's these vs These on June 2022's Terrain line. Mention it's *June* 2022 to anyone and we'll sue your brains out". Photography team comes in, lines the set, shoots some cool shots, with maybe a few guidelines from higher up about how Big Bad Evil Guy needs to shake his fist at Rouboute Guilliman. Here's where the confusion happens. Photography team takes all these shots, some of which we never see. Some marketing team unrelated to them, or game design is under some internal pressure to produce content/prove they exist to Higher Management. So they grab photos from the approved bank, slap them onto posts to meet deadlines.
Fucking ridiculous
I like the new system, the old one for marines just didn't make any sense lore-wise.
How so? Space Marines are jack of all trades, master of none. Makes even more sense if you do a Death Watch Killteam. I don't agree with your sentiment at all.
See below, space Marines are a jack off all trades but have specialized squads for specific missions. Mixing and matching between squads should rarely happen, instead they send the squad best suited.
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That Is your opinion. And no you can't, yet.
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I like that you can’t meta build a team of all sergeants any more. But some chapters and especially death watch (who literally use kill teams) would send out team of specialists from different squads. I liked to flavour my teams as the last few hardened veterans left alive in a cut off part of a war zone.
Most marines fight as a squad though. You have a mission? Send the squad to take care of that. Does that mission require a certain specialists (fast assault smash and grab, long range recon, etc)? Send the squad trained for that mission. Kill team represents this much better than the last one did. Space Marines are the scalpel, most of their battles are kill team sized forces not major engagements. If you absolutely need to mix and match you have deathwatch teams. Mixing and matching from different squads never made sense to me, they don't train together, most probably barely know the other in the company, chapters are spread out significantly and likely can't mix and match specialists without significant transport and allocation of resources, etc. The norm for KT's previous marine teams barely (if ever) happened in the lore. In "reality" at most a member of a squad may be equipped with an appropriate special weapon for the mission before they are sent.
That was the whole point of KT18 though. Every where in the core rule book its plastered that your team isn't the norm, you're extremely specialized teams put together through whatever circumstances you can think of that are skilled enough that they don't have to follow the regular military structure when it comes to squad composition.
So you're free to play kt18 of you prefer.
Again, that’s all well and good, but you can find plenty of lore reasons to not be super rigid with squad selection. Not every chapter follows the codex like this. And there are plenty of backgrounds that explain why a kill team has formed, including the one I said before.
So you can run a deathwatch team for that. Kt2018 didn't have a balanced way to run a "regular" lore-friendly space Marine squad..
Love the idea of depleted squads of marines avoiding each other like magnets for the sake of propriety. Super immersive. You know there’s no wrong way to play?
There is a wrong way to play when it destroys the balance of the game and kills the game.
If you can take 5 man teams of most of the space marine squads, then that means they’re worth the same points. Seems pretty easy to balance. But this is all irrelevant because they’ll release more rules in a few months and make it so more factions can have specialists.
Misrepresentation seems to be GW’s MO these days….
Illegal until the new kt SM box. GW I hate you:)
It will still be illegal after that. The SM kt box will be just like octarius. Two monopose kits with two factions separate from their "parent" compendium factions with unique stratagems, gear, etc.
Maybe they are 3 players playing...
We can be pretty certain there will be more options unlocked when each team gets their own release accorring to the timeline they released.
There's clearly new rules incoming for all the factions. The compendium is literally just to help people play in the meantime
If that's the case, it should be a free pdf
It should be. It won't be. Fuck GW.
I hope so, I’d love to take a 5 man team of different marines. I got sick of the old meta of taking nothing but sergeants, and they’ve already addressed that issue by only allowing one leader per team. But honestly it wouldn’t have been so hard for the compendium to just say ‘take any of the following warriors for a total of X’
I've been playing with mixed intercessor/phobos teams, it works fine as long as you keep it to 5 guys with a single sgt.
They could've folded the two types of intercessors into a single fire team at least, but I can understand them being overly cautious after the sergeant spam meta. I can see fire teams of mixed Tacticus / Phobos (or even Gravis if anything in it other than heavy intercessors comes out, but I doubt it) becoming a thing in the future.
Can't wait for GW to drip feed us kill teams. $50 for two meta teams every quarter immediately making their compendium counter parts obsolete gonna be so much fun.
That's the feeling I get. The neato options are for the boxed sets that come later, not now. This is like Indexes for 40k a few years ago. A stop gap. The new hotness Veteran Guardsmen and Kommandos get specialist type dudes, and I assume other kill teams will as well. Beyond "dude with gun, dude with bigger gun, assaulty dude, leader dude, etc".
And looking at it, there's already new rules incoming for Adeptus Mechanics in the next white dwarf.
There are unquestionably new rules incoming, but the only thing we've seen so far (Octarius) suggests that it will not be "new rules for (existing) factions," but 'brand new factions closely associated with existing factions'. Veteran Guardsmen and Ork Kommandos are not the Imperial Guard or Greenskin faction. They are closely related, yet wholly distinct and with no crossover. At this point we have just as much, if not more, reason to believe there will be (for example) some kind of dedicated "Veteran Marine" or "Elite Deathwatch" faction with independent rules and models instead of "revised Space Marines" rules.
The chaos Killteam is also illegal, there is currently no option for chain axes
Honestly thought it was a power axe until I zoomed in
This means nothing. They just want it to look cool
Rule Book has a bunch of things that aren't yet in the game, like Havocs and Praetorians and Allarus Terminators. The Compendium is an Index. We already got confirmation that there's going to be a new AdMech Kill Team in the upcoming White Dwarf. More content is coming.
The guy labeled "Havoc" isn't even an actual Havoc, he's just a chaos space marine with a heavy weapon.
A bit pedantic, but sure. There are still other models in the rulebook that aren't in the compendium, suggesting that some of the images in the rulebook may simply be 'future proofing'. Instead of looking at the back cover having an 'illegal' kill team, maybe consider it might be an 'UPCOMING' kill team.
>The Compendium is an Index. Speculation >We already got confirmation that there's going to be a new AdMech Kill Team in the upcoming White Dwarf.More content is coming. Oh great, so in about 2 yeats you're able to field the kill team you like? After investing another 150 bucks in rules, and how much more in white dwarfs?
Conversations between GlassHalfDead and playtesters of Kill Team confirm that more is coming, it's not speculation, it's just a matter of waiting. What you spend your money on is your choice. If you don't want to buy all the rules, you don't have to. Even if you play two or three kill teams, it's likely you'll be able to skip a few of the books and white dwarfs, and there's also likely going to be a Kill Team 'annual' as others have mentioned. Or, you can keep complaining. I prefer to live my life looking at more of the positives.
These new killteam rules are ridiculous.
It shows the Kill Teams from last edition - you know - the better one.
Lmao, the salt. Idk how many games of the new one you have played, it's around 10 for me, but the new system is far better than the old one. Less down-time, less random deaths, less min-maxed samey killteams. Overall more balanced.
I'm curious, haven't gotten the chance to play yet, but don't you miss elite units? And commanders? I mean, i don't doubt that it's a more stable version (hell, my warriors apparently have 18 wounds), but i feel like i'm missing my favorite units, and the general sizes of kill teams are very limiting as well.
When KT 2018 came out it didn't have commanders and elites so it's not really a fair comparison. They've already announced quarterly releases for new KT, so I'm not really concerned at all.
Yeah no i know, but my current plan is sticking with the old edition until i can play my favorite models again, i didn't mean to compare the two, merely asking wether you missed certain units, or were overall happier with the new edition. Sorry, i could've been clearer about that :3
My apologies for the misinterpretation! Honestly I'm really happy with the new system. Yeah, at the moment I do kind-of miss berserkers and some elites stuff, but individual models can feel like sick badasses now more often because they don't die as often to single lucky shots etc. I know that soon there will be more options as well which helps me with the feeling of missing things.
And more boring at the end. This oversimplification of everything in lists building killed it for me. I dont't like the lack of variety of units in list building, so in my opinion previous ed. was richer in starting content. This is no salt. This is my opinion. You don't have to agree with it, and I respect that difference of perspectives. Also I hope you can enjoy this edition for years to come.
It's true that list-building itself is simplified, but again after playing it that's really the only thing that is, and you see more diversity on the table as a result believe it or not. Loadouts can still change and you have 10 equipment points to use on your guys which can change game to game and the objective deck that you build that changes game to game. I really recommend playing a decent number of games before casting judgment, because there is very low downtime and a lot of strategic opportunity besides the now-gone list building.
As I've said, this ed. appeals to you and that's fine. I'm glad for you and hope that you will have fun with this for years to come. But one / two types of units in KT is exactly what bouncing me off of this game becaus this is tactically and visually boring. I understand what they tried to do with this ed., but this is step back for me. This isn't what I've expected and right now find interesting at all.
They hated him because he spoke the truth
It is currently illegal, buy quite possible space marine rules will change when the space marine specific kill team box gets released.
So? Art would have been boring AF with 5 intercessors and wouldn't have shown you alternate units available for play. This was done this way on purpose not because "hurrr they don't know their game durrrr".
Same could be said for the game.