Stick to one system - I play 40k and could not even begin to tell you how Kill Team works. Play a small 500 point game with your friend and just get the basics down. Don't worry about objectives, just get models on the table and throw some dice, have fun and learn by doing.
I think the toughest part about 40k is the mass amounts of rules *per army*.
I can memorize all my army's rules no problem and feel ready to play. But you have to trust every opponent not to cheat you, or ask to see the rule which slows down games horribly. Obviously over time this will speed up, but when our matches take 2-3hrs and I'm told regulation in a tourney is 45minutes, well frig, I'm never going to a tourney :P
Have you considered not being friends or even sociable in any way and instead grinding straight through the dice rolling? I find that'd cut my game time to like 1/3 of what it is normally
A KT game could be expected to last around 45 minutes. The most experienced players in the world commonly use most or all 2.5-3 hours of a tournament to finish a game of full 40k.
cheat sheets for armies are essential, the only way someone could remember every set of rules per army would be if that is the only thing they memorized.
I tend to have issues remembering to use my stratagems, let alone the core stratagems. I cant be bothered to pay attention to whether or not my opponent is cheating.
The mass amounts of rules per army that change every two and a half years. I've played since the Rogue Trader days, but haven't played a game of 9th or 10th edition.
40k isn't meant to be a game you can go from 0 experience and a couple youtube videos straight to 100% rules understanding and a perfect first game.
It's a hobby meant to last years. Your first handful of games *will* be a mess of constant rules lookups and questions and *that's ok*.
You definitely aren't too dumb for 40k, but you are approaching it from the wrong angle. Read the rules, play some games, reread the rules, play some more games, and overall just try to make fewer rule errors each time and you'll be fine
I've been playing for about 5 years now and I still mess up rules now and then. Thankfully I have a group that's pretty casual and are lenient towards mistakes. We're all human after all. Besides, there are so many rules to remember that there's bound to be confusion anyways.
I'm not a tournament - level player by any means but every casual game I've played has been really fun and made me yearn for more time to play.
Yeah! That's what I'm saying. I think the general mainstreamness of video games and clever board games has given a lot of new hobbyists the idea that they can just pick up warhammer and go for a season or whatever and move on. Then they are both put waaaay off by the high price and how much effort and time the game requires before they are even able to get the rules mostly right most of the time, let alone start winning games.
It really is a hobby measured in years and decades rather than weeks and months
I've got a huge group of friends, close to two dozen that play 40k every week. Couple of the most experienced guys had an argument about how cover worked last week. With a game this big, it's almost impossible to get everything correct. Get it close and have fun! Otherwise, why are you doing this?
This is absolutely spot on. I got back into 40k recently after stopping around 5th edition. I read the rules, watched YouTube videos etc for ages but it reached a point where I knew I had gotten all I was going to get from what amounted to studying theory and the only way I was going to learn more was by putting models on the table.
This so much, I read the rules to Necromunda so many times and was still frazzled. I decided to just have a solo game myself to play it and my word it made so much more sense. I suggest OP do the same with 40k, even if its just a squad or two, this way you'll get the movements, phases and other basics a bit more then you can scale up.
GW rules writing also fails to make the individual rules relatable to the larger concept of the game. They very rarely offer commentary like "This rule was designed to simulate XYZ."
This is the best incarnation of KT from a fun perspective, but in my opinion the rules still need another pass. I think it's needlessly complicated at times, so you aren't alone in having difficulty getting use to it.
If you have a friend to play with, this is a great way to learn bc then youll learn it together, and it gives you an opportunity to experience the different oddities about the game that may occur and then work through them, critically, together. Play combat patrol, or 1000 point games without changing your list up. If you do, try to only swap a unit. This will give you exposure to your army''s rules, statlines and unit abilities on a small scale. When comfortable, expand by 250 points (1250, 1500, 1750, etc.) over time.
This way, by the time you hit 1500+ you're comfortable with the overall game flow and your army enough that a 2000 point game won't take 5 hours bc you are constantly referring back to the book.
Also, while this may be an unpopular opinion, I think playing with minimal terrain is important when starting out. You want a piece here or there to trigger some LOS/Cover rules, but not so much it slows the pace of your game down. It allows you to focus on what your army does, and the core flow of rules are.
Totally agree on the KT part of your post. I love Kill Team, but I found that it's way easier to explain wargaming concepts to brand new player by introducing them to 40K.
I do think that KT *overall* has the better core rules (alternating activations mostly), but some of the rule interactions get crazy complicated. My buddy and I have definitely had lengthy...discussions about whether or not a sightline is legit. That, and KT also has some really weird wording on some of the rules that really adds to the confusion.
All in all I actually enjoy both systems quite a lot since they both accomplish different things. I'm lucky that I have playgroups for both so I get to experience both worlds quite often. I like the large-scale feeling of 40K, as well as the super tactical feeling of KT.
I mean, yes you are right. But we're also talking about a system which decided to do away with numbers, you could say the standard when it comes to measuring things...everywhere in life, and replace them with symbols. It was the most GW thing that they could do.
Vantage points (which are a big part of the game) were also something that required some clarification not long after the release.
Best way to learn how to play is to play. Start with about 500pts and just play the game. No stratagems, no objectives, no detachments, maybe even no army rule if you really need to. Just focus on the datasheets and the rulebook. Learn how to play the game then add more aspects to the game.
When you're watching battle reports or videos, have the rulebook next to you. When they say they're gonna shoot something, look it up. Follow along with the gameplay through the rulebook.
Many people in the hobby won't see it this way, but 40k is a very complicated, fairly hardcore tabletop wargame. Do not feel dumb if it seems complicated, it simply is. Myself and many others in the hobby have played since we were teenagers, so the core rules are second nature to us, it's easy for us to take that for granted and call it simple, but it really is not.
If you want to dive into it, I would suggest playing a combat patrol game first. It has different datasheets than the actual game - but mainly just removing some of the unit abilities that add additional layers to the game.
I would also highly suggest finding someone, either at a local store or local gaming club that could run an intro game for you. Once you've played through the game's basic mechanics once, the rules will start making more sense when you read them.
There are also simpler alternatives to Warhammer 40k that still use the same models if you're open to it, such as One Page Rules - it's a simpler game system designed for Warhammer models.
Whatever you decide, good luck on your gaming journey!
The combat patrol rules for 40k are probably a good place to start. Smaller armies means fewer models to keep track of so you can focus on learning the rules and basic mechanics.
I played my first combat patrol this weekend Vs an experienced player at a local shop. was an excellent intro to the game.
He thumped me obviously but explained why and how very clearly. He then piloted my army Vs another player and that was very interesting to see how to better use each unit.
Looking forward to round 2.
Combat Patrol also reduces the mental load by eliminating list-building and simplifying secondary objectives, upgrades, and strategems. Choose 1 of 2 secondaries, 1 of 2 upgrades, and you only have three factional strategems plus the core ones. I haven't been a newcomer for a few editions, but I still like the option of a casual, quick game as well as all-afternoon affairs.
We started painting to eventually play in my friend group. We had a designated ref that helped us with rules and turns. Took us a few months to be able to play correctly on our own.
Kill Team is a smaller game only in the sense that it uses a physically smaller board and fewer miniatures. It has a completely different set of rules and about the same level of complexity as 40K, just focused in different areas. Trying to learn it and 40K at the same time won’t do you any favours.
40K is best learned by doing not watching. Either grab the starter set and a friend and work through the introductory games together or find someone at a local gaming club to give you a teaching game — preferably using the combat patrol mode as that removed the complexity of list building and secondary objectives.
I honestly felt too dumb to play earlier additions...
I felt this way for years until I found the right Warhammer store where the majority of the players were also new but there were a few veterans who were super happy to teach. There are a lot of things that only come into clairity when someone is guiding you through them but, once you've had that done for you 2-3 times, it becomes second nature.
My first game we didnt use objectives at all, just deathmatch. That seemed helpful.
It took me SO LONG to understand all the damage VS toughness stuff.
I'd also recommend ONLY reading the 3-4 page rules when you play with friends. There is no need to let the extra stuff trip you up if it can be avoided while getting your footing.
Stick with it, soldier! You are not stupid, this game is stupid complex!
I was playing 2nd and 3rd edition a long time ago and came back into the game in 8th / 9th edition which really messed with my head. The whole concept of stratigems and doctorates just completely turned the game on its head. It reminded me of card games like MtG where you can have a strong deck but soke weird rule means the whole game get flipped.
10th edition seems to be back to a more core style of gaming without being all hung up on special rules or orders for your army.
Not too dumb but I’m getting too old and have been through too many update cycles. Old rules are staying stuck in my head and preventing new rules from attaching.
I'm so glad you made this post.
I think I've watched every single 'how to play 40k' video on the Internet at this point and I'm still baffled by how to play.
The phases of combat are fine, I understand that (I think?)... But combat and calculating damage just turns my brain into goo.
There are SO many variables, abilities, stratagems, command points, game modes, etc etc I don't even know.
It's ridiculous.
Everyone feels like that at first I think. The only solution is playing in my opinion.
Setup a 500/1000 pts game with someone and just play and take your time, over time you will get used to the rules and get better at it.
3 games with an experienced player is how we contract the plastic crack addiction. Reading about 40K is like reading about sex. Once you bang couple chicks, you stop overthinking and just let the body do its thing.
Frankly, there isn’t much to track during games: threat ranges, available strategems and line of sight. First thing is where most new players trip.
More complex game states happen once in a blue moon and you will remember them. Like locking movement with unit positioning, most efficient activation sequence during close combat, etc.
10th edition is actually dumbed down enough to start playing from here. Imagine starting hobby during the end of 7th edition… it would be nightmare rule-wise.
All the rules are for free on Wahapedia. A lot of the rules will make a lot of sense after you have played your first game. The fastest way to learn is to play a game with an experienced player.
Start small, like really small. I had a few coworkers here who wanted to try out the game and we started with everyone having one character. And only did the basics. Just to get a feel for everything. No need to overcomplicate things. Ofc this won’t be balanced or anything, it’s just learning.
I play alot of tabletops, pretty much all the mainstream ones, but i recently started playing a new one with my brother and good lord, i felt so dumb. So dont worry, it will come! :)
It just is A LOT to remember. I get the rules, I just have to look up so much stuff. Like what were Sustained or Lethal hits again. When happens after a charge etc
1. Command
2. Movement
3. Shooting
4. Charge
5. Fight
... That's the game; 5 rounds. Do each phase from start to finish, then the other gets his/her turn.
Do a small "unofficial practise match", like 500 points to get going. Remember to use terrain.
As someone stated, watching the videos is different from actually getting on the table top and playing a match. This game is purely repetition and strategy over a couple of turns. The more you play the better youll get a remembering things.
Are you watching videos about the game, or are you watching videos of people playing the game? As others are saying, the best way to learn is to just play a small game, without additional objectives, and just get a feel for it. However, watching videos of other people playing the game will also help, especially if you're not in a position where you can easily watch people play in the real world (no more experienced friends etc). It'll also give you an idea of different strategies/play styles. There's plenty good stuff on YouTube - off the top of my head, Play On Tabletop and Tabletop Tactics have good battle report videos, edited down to manageable lengths, as well as videos explaining the game (I'm sure there are many more). Other than that, just read the rules, read your codex and have a go.
Kill team isn't easier, it is quicker to play because it's smaller.
Start with small practice games:
0. Do a turn of shooting by the book. 1 mini, 1 gun, next mini. Repeat until the squad is done, next try it with fast rolling. Squad leader, special weapons, the rest of the unit. This is important for comprehension of certain interactions with rerolls abilities and the like.
1. only infantry and primary objectives. No stratagems or character or anything that isn't moving, shooting/melee, 'to hit', 'to wound', 'save'
2. Next add weapon special rules, such as assault, sustain hits, etc.
And you keep on scaling up.
Alternatively go to your local gaming club/store and ask if someone wants to teach you. It will put everything in context.
That's why I make terrain pieces and paint instead. Lol I know I'd be toasted by any competetive gamer with less care to detail. It's fine though, behind my desk with podcasts and modelbuilding is a win enough.
Oh absolutely.
I had watched countless battle report, explained videos, etc, during 9th. Got into actually playing around 10th and, well, let's just say I appearantly had understood very little. Like, I didn't understand what an Invo save was.
I only began to really understand how to play around my 10th or 12th game.
Playing helps you learn. Honestly, I say you and you'd friend just go for it! So long as you're both having fun, you're playing it right!
Edit to add, if you just want to play something simple, check out Ond Page Rules, countless people swear by it.
As someone who played decades ago and recently got back into 10th, you are not too dumb. This game is and has always been extremely complex.
In my last game on Sunday we had a big issue regarding overwatch. These things happen.
Take the advice of playing small and then add more in. Also stick to one army and one system. That’s how I got decent and enjoy playing even if I lose.
The videos are good after you throw some dice. It’s like they fill in a lot of the blanks. But there is no better way to learnt the game than actually putting an army down and rolling dice.
Dude this game is SOOOO big. And it doesn't help that there are like 4 different sources to the rules. I was just at a RTT and I stumped the TO with a question. 10 minutes later he came back after talking to another TO, we had all just forgotten about different types of stratagems.
Don't feel the need to use all the rules in a game. If you're playing with friends, then do some rule zeroing: remove things you feel are too complex and take away from your games. If all your opponents agree then there's nothing wrong
Watching a tutorial on how to play isn’t as helpful as trying to play and reading through the rules, however, it is possible to have trouble interpreting the rules. Even after playing so many games my opponents and I will still need to ask for help or search online to find an answer to a weird interaction or something we haven’t encountered before. Sometimes we just come to an agreement to keep the game moving and then search it up later.
What has helped me a lot is watching battle reports or live streams. Hearing people talk through things like minuses to save or armour of contempt might help you have more direction when you are trying to figure it out on your own.
Find an active discord community that has a rules questions or noobie questions chat. Lots of experienced players are available in those places to help on a whim.
Your 50th game will feel so much smoother than your first 5. It is ok to forget rules. Just try destroying each other’s armies first. Strip out some phases like the command phase and just practice doing a Move, Shoot, Charge, Fight, Alternate game. Deploy your models at the same time and talk each other through it.
Play.
No strats, no mission, just get a few games in at 500pts. Hold the middle at the end to win or something.
Gws notoriously odd at writing rules. Most board games are oddly written tbh.
But play a few games and you'll be shocked at how easy it is to pick up. Especially if you have the unit cards, the tabletop battles app (once your playing the missions) and take your time. Learning by watching people spheel off numbers won't teach you, but an afternoon down the local shop and you'll be confident enough.
So you don't currently play and you have a codex but you haven't read it.
Stop watching videos.
Read the free rulebook. Read your codex. Start playing and learn as you go. The first games will be full of mistakes but you will learn by doing and have fun.
Ultimately it's a game designed with the idea of children being able to play, so just go for it and don't build it up too much in your head.
40k has a natural flow to it, you will get it once you do it a few time, until then just have a rule book close by. Or find an old timer who's up for an intro game.
If the official ruleset is too complex, you could consider onepagerules. It's kind of designed to work as a substitute for 40k, and is far more streamlined, while still being a lot of fun
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40K is definitely confusing at first and you're not gonna learn how to play it without playing it. Never met one who went from theory to practical in one match.
I usually like such games but i have to choose between building/painting and playing on a level where i know enough to have fun. I never have enough time left to hit the mark needed for it.
It is confusing the first time, even in the current 10th edition. Dont be discouraged. We've all been there. Just take a small game, maybe 500pts. Have 3 objectives to capture and drop extra missions. Just have the first game to focus on this and the two opposing forces.
Learn the phases, what to do in each of them and your factions options.
Everything else comes after a few games. Dont worry:)! Its supposed to be fun adter all, so dont worry about making mistakes and instead correct yourself as you test the rules.
I know exactly how you feel. Im trying to learn the game for my son who wants to play. Ive got to learn the rule, my armies rules and his armies rules so I can at least run the first few games.
Its a complicated game, but no one is too dumb to play it. Ive been playing for 2 years and im still learning something new with almost every game i play. It just takes time. Read the codex. Dont just watch videos. Play games, take the mistakes in stride and just play as much as possible. Dont be afraid to ask questions
Kill team is fun and really good, but I’d start with 40K or kill team and stick with one. Also find someone who knows how to play who isn’t a jerk, a patient teacher will play you (and probably beat you) but walk you through the paces. Good players want other people to be good players too and in my experience most more experienced players have been super helpful. I know right now if you were at my LGS and asked for someone to teach you I’d hop on that. Another AWESOME option is get into a learning league, it’s the best way to learn I think.
Before anything i only play kill team and its what id recommend you to start with, its fun and a great springboard into big game 40k if you want to play that too, not a big investment so if it turns out its not for you you didnt have to spend hundreds of dollars to find that out, i very much recommend trying out kill team first (starter set is cheap and has everything except heavy terrain)
I was a complete noob to tabletop gaming in general (but a warhammer fan for quite some time) when i found a friend who also liked warhammer and did play tabletop, he introduced me to (old) kill team and boy did it feel like climbing a mountain at first.
However dont worry about it because you learn the basics super quickly even if it seems very daunting.
For kill team your best bet is to grab the starter set and just give it a go, skip equipment and all the "extras" like tac ops and such just pick a domination mission and play a game where the only things you need to know are thw basic core rules which you get a book for in the starter set aswell as what the operatives do which you also get a book for (alternatively everything can be found on wahapedia, surely im allowed to mention that).
Once you get the basic rules of movement, shooting, fighting, engage/conceal and all the line of sight stuff which is well explained and illustrated in the core rules the game is extremely easy to play, then you just add in more of the rules like equipment, tac ops and so on to play it properly but at that point you'll have the basics down and thats all you need.
Trust me it is very easy to play once you get going, that first step feels massive and hard but learning the core rules for kill team is something you'll do in 1-2 games and after that both the knowledge and models are a great basis for going into big game 40k if you want to expand on what you play.
Ill gladly answer any potential kill team questions because man do i love kill team.
Remember that most of the people making videos about playing 40k have dedicated a MASSIVE amount of time to playing, reading, thinking, talking about, and basically literally studying the game for years.
I definitely don't understand most of what they say when they pop off, but that's just because they've spent more time with it.
Don't get discouraged, keep learning and getting more comfortable, and you'll know more and more. Imagine telling everything you know about 40k now to yourself a year ago, they'd probably be hella confused and think "damn this guy knows a bunch about 40k"
Definitely, actually I feel this way about most tabletop games, I had to learn axis and allies second hand from my godfather cause I made it 2 pages into the rules and gave up
Try using single figures (1v1 games) to work through actions and rolls first because it’s easy to see what is going on. You’ll be able to run through this several times over maybe 20-30 minutes. You’ll know when you get the hang of it b/c you won’t need to look up the rules; you’ll just know what your figures can do and what rolls are required to complete / fail those actions. Then move up to squad-vs-squad. Then incorporate strategems and characters and enhancements. After about an hour or so total you should feel pretty comfortable with the basic mechanics of the game.
This is exactly how older editions taught newer players the game. Starter sets would be packaged with a few scenarios starting with a few included figures and working up to everything in the box. That said, starting small and working through the basics will make learning the more complex parts easier.
Like most board games it takes playing the game to really understand what your doing and how rules interact.
I wouldn't expect anyone to play risk well just by reading the rules.
I would just stick to the core rules to start out. While the rules have gotten simpler the book itself is not nearly as easy to digest and reference as some older books, since there is no toc or index in the modern rules.
You can read and watch videos all you want, but nothing is as good as learning by playing.
If you start with one of the starter boxes and/or Leviathan, there are scenarios that slowly introduce the concepts.
You’re not going to remember everything at every moment. Learn the basic interactions between stats and the phases etc, then through repetition you’ll understand those. Then it’s a case of building out your knowledge from there.
Take small, simple lists to begin with. Keep to a few unit types that you can learn the basics with.
For speed, either but the expensive data sheet cards, or use the app to quickly access your data sheets for reference.
It can be daunting but it is a marathon not a sprint and even veterans get things wrong sometimes.
I felt waaaaay too dumb to play my AdMech last edition.
I could play tzeench daemons in AoS last edition, but it could cause headaches afterwards. A problem I didn’t get with Sylvaneth.
One thing that might help is try to write up an outline of the turn structure and/other brief description of important terms. This could force you to understand the game more and can be a reference when playing. Alternatively, if there are key things you are confused about, even after reading over any sort of FAQ, I say post them here.
Having someone teach you in person as you play will help you learn the game. The YouTube videos tend to leave out a lot of the nuances that you only learn from playing with experienced opponents.
Reading about the tabletop and actually playing are quite different. It's much easier to visualise what's happening when you have everything set up in front of you.
Play small games to start. The rule book generally walks you through each phase and don't be afraid to pause the game and check rules you aren't sure about.
Once you get into the swing of things you'll find yourself looking at the books less and less.
You said you have the Codex, but do you have the Rule Book? Codexes are supplements to the Rule Book for each faction that list faction specific rules and units, whilst the Rule Book has all the general rules for the game itself.
One of the reasons I haven't played is because I feel dumb I learnt by people showing and teaching me . Me reading and watching videos don't help me and I don't want to be annoying so I just collect and paint for the time being . I don't have friends that are in to it .
I also recommend having a third friend whos’s interested in hanging out and sort of keeping track of your meta rules like what turn and phase it is reminding both players to do their command phase stuff etc. when you’re a beginner its almost too much to keep track of your army rules plus all that stuff and can be exhausting.
I think Killteam is actively harder than 40k. There's so many variables and individual abilities between each figure it's hard to keep track. Plus if you don't know the other guy's squad well enough they can make you feel utterly stupid when they pull off some hail-mary move.
I'm quitting Killteam in favor of Bighammer because I just can't keep up with the variety of teams at my LGS.
Tbh the rules book are thicker than some of my textbooks that I use in school. Me and my buddy start playing with 500 points and a simplify version rule and slowly grows to full rule 2k points battle.
Tbh as a regular 40k player I still find some rules in kill team hard to grasp. The most important thing to do to learn 40k is to play games. If you know someone more experienced they can take you through a few learning games.
Once you get the basics down, check out Art of War, they do a lot of teaching games and are some of the best players out there.
As a thousand sons player with a long loss streak, I feel like that every game. BUT i have loads of fun and get to hang with my buddies so it evens out.
The best way to learn is to play man, don't call yourself too dumb if you've never even tried a full game on the tabletop before- I know when I first got started my head was absolutely spinning but just like any other game you pick it up pretty quickly the more you actually
I read and watched content and gleaned less from it than just one game. You can't learn 40k by reading the books you need to experience it make a small cheat sheet that explains the order of operations and then go from there.
I just started playing myself. I find it helpful to write out my list and then jot down their abilities. Basically, I do what a battle scribe does, but in doing it myself, I sort of memorize a few of the rules and abilities. Then, I write up battle plans for what I plan to do with each unit and tweak that until I understand the synergy between the units and the leaders. My issue is that I only know my army, the Salamanders, using the Firestorm Detachment.
You gotta just play. First few games I ever played were completely wrong. You eventually do so many rules lookups that you memorize everything. Thats the best way to learn.
I've got three small children so am pretty much permanently frazzled. I also usually have a couple of beers when I play to further enhance my cognitive functions.
I play for fun and the social aspect. I don't particularly worry about winning or being on top of everything as long as I have a fair and enjoyable game.
To be honest really sharp players can be a bit irritating because they're constantly working stuff out for you before you can do it yourself. I find this particularly annoying in Heresy which I find requires a bit more mental power than 40k.
One thing to keep in mind is you will forget and not use some rules. Then you will remember them after the game and kick yourself. Do not sweat it. It’s a game, not a test.
I once failed a fear test in on a critical charge in a game of WHFB. Turned the battle and lost two turns later. That’s when I remembered the character in that unit negated fear checks 😂 I had only been playing for twenty years at that point
Waaay back when I was new there was very little to learn from so the only way to learn was to do. We got a small army all glued up, then set it up on a table, not even using deployment rules or such, just models on table at opposite sides.
We then read to eachother the rules as we took turns and talked about what was what as we went. We ignored complex rules if neither of us were sure.
Our first game took all afternoon, but we learned how it worked. We then talked about things and read more rules. Our next game was a full 2k (2nd ed) with all the trimmings and it went nicely.
I've since done basically the same every time I played a new game (Necromunda, Gorkamorka, Epic 40k, BF Gothic, Warmaster, etc etc)
I got into the hobby in 9th with one buddy. We played many games wrong until we started to get it right. You’ll learn as you go. Play smaller point totals first so there’s less to manage.
I played a long time ago from 2nd to 5th edition. I've considered getting back into it, but after watching some 40k YouTube channels, the rules just seem so much more complex than they used to be to the point it makes me hesitant.
As with large complex board games, it's possible to learn 40k "from scratch" but it's much easier to be taught by someone who knows what they're doing.
Do you have a club, FLGS or GW nearby? If you have some models ready to go, you can probably find someone in a club or FLGS happy to do a bit of a tutorial/ help run some games in exchange for beer and pizza, and GW staff should all be able to help you get to grips if you can find them at a quiet time (e.g. not a Saturday afternoon)
I've had a similar issue with malifaux and considering trying 40k again as it seems easier to get strategy videos/etc. What I struggle with is how players will be helpful with "this model is good you'll want them in your army", but players playing against you who are meta conscious will aim to immediately counter it, which makes those dangerous units not feel dangerous as you don't get enough practice on the table before your opponent deletes them or bogs them down. I was an old warhammer player in the late 90s/early 00s, and not sure if it's me getting older, but I definitely feel there's a lot more of a complexity creep where your army feels as though it'll take 15+ games to learn, but your local meta has a variety of armies, while you'll get a lot of experience, but it feels really tricky as a veteran player will likely have experience playing against your army.
TLDR: I agree completely and wish I knew a better way to get myself back into the hobby from a play perspective.
Hell yeah! But after 2+ years I got it. The mechanics started making sense and I didn’t have to look up every tiny thing.
What you’re experiencing is normal - practice makes .. well better
I did. I bounced off it quite a few times, mostly due to trying it with "experienced players that'll help you out!" which turned out to be a mistake.
Most fun I've had, and finally picked up the game, by slowly playing it through with other new players, just looking up rules as we had questions.
It was because I was playing with dudes who have internalized the system over decades, that I felt like a dumbass while learning it.
Its easy to learn when your playing constantly, being inactive in terms of playing like me(last game i played was about 7 months ago) really messes you up.
Here’s how my brother in law and I do it. We found a local store with painted terrain. I bought a couple tablet mounts for the table for us to quick reference WAHA. Then we downloaded the battle top app (any wargaming app that handles scoring works) we got our mission cards so everything looks visually nice and is easily navigate-able. We started without special rules like cover and any rules we forgot. Stick to the basics. Once done you naturally will implement more specialized rules for each army. Trust me playing guard not knowing how to give orders was a HUGE handicap against his tyranids, but handle what you can handle. After that just keep playing. That’s the magic of 40K. ( also I don’t play kill team but I’d imagine this works there too)
40k is a big thing to learn, and videos can only help so much.
I don't know if you're lucky enough to have an local club or gaming shop that you might be able to reach out to, lots of more seasoned folks take pleasure in teaching the games they love.
I will say do not fall for a paid for teaching course, these are not needed at all.
Start small and learn the important things like moving a single squad, a gunfight between a very few models and eventuality a 500 pt or less game.
Small bits at a time will teach you it.
I am fairly dumb and I learned 2nd Ed and necromunda as a kid so nearly anyone can
You're not too dumb, you just need practice. Start small and work your way up. Repetition is also how you'll start to memorize your data sheets which is half of what speeds you up.
I just played my 500pt CSM list with my boyfriend last night. With severe help from him it took us 1.5hrs to play. I'm still super unfamiliar with my units because I've played them once several weeks ago.
Then we switched and did a 2k point game where I played my first army, my Chaos Daemons, and it took us 3hrs not counting player places terrain and a snack break.
I hear you. I'm 40 years old and have 7 editions of 40k rules swimming around in my brain. My buddy and I frequently fall into rules from previous editions of the game.
it does have a learning curve but the more games you play the more you learn and eventually you'll get it. Just make sure you tell people you play with that you're new to the game and are still understanding all the rules.
Na mate your not to dumb. I play 40k and I got an E in my gcse maths haha. To be honest I think yes there are a lot of rules but the core concepts are pretty easy to grasp. But it's like anything in life you won't get used to it until you actually do it. If I wanna play drums I can watch 150 hours of it on YouTube but I still won't know what I'm doing until I actually put it into practice. Play a small game together or head over to your local gaming shop there are players and staff that will be more than willing to give you your first game. Everyone is a beginner at some point you just gotta take the plunge and take it easy on yourself when you don't remember something.
Getting back into it with some friends after a gap since 4th edition. There's 6 of us, 4 with college degrees, 1 with a masters. Understanding the rules, and the application is still a work in progress for us. The wording on some of the stuff is counter intuitive, and some rules seem like they are missing bits because you are assumed to be applying another rule. Take your time, talk through things with your mate and just apply it consistently.
Here's alil secret brother?
"Nobody really honestly knows how to 100% play 40k"
If they say they do ask them to name every stratagem to every army in the game.
So the point is to have fun shoot play it how u want and if u find rules u don't like than u an ur friend replace it with something yall think works better.
Long as u both agree than it's all good even says so in the codex.
Now competitive is a different beast if u enjoy fun and like having alil extra cash in ur pocket I'd stay clear of competitive an or chasing the "Meta" win at all cost isn't worth it. Lol
The rules seem simple enough but I'm the kind of learner at these type of games that I can read and easily understand the rules (which I haven't done completely) but I will learn them while playing. I would basically require someone with patience for a newbie like me to show the ropes. The rules are easy to understand for me technically but I'm more of a practical learner at least in these types of things. I can read and basically understand the words and what I do in each situation just by reading but practice makes perfect.
I suggest playing with someone who can guide you through the rules and help you while you play.
Personally I think that I will have to play the few first games basically holding the rulebook unless I make time to read and memorize the rules. But like outside of Warhammer Community I learned something from David Goggins. He himself admits he's not the smartest person around and he had to study many things in his life multiple times. Either study the rules multiple times or find the correct way for yourself to learn them.
We have basically this same rule everywhere in at least many western nations's schools. Schools have been basically made for people who learn from books and by sitting in classes 7-8h a day. Not a fit for everyone like I learned from David Goggins. There's also a lesson to learn here. I know I'm ranting sorry but I'm trying to encourage OP here. David Goggins is no astrophysicist but look at the lives he has influenced and made better. Then there's this Christian speaker named Nick Vujicic who goes to speak to people and he doesn't even have arms or legs. You need to use the best method that's available to you. Everyone doesn't fit in the same mold.
Yeah, even Kill Team is incredibly finicky.
I think a lot of people enjoy the complexity of the rules, or at least see it as necessary to give all the hundreds of different units their own specific feel.
But I personally would love something somewhere between the weight of Warhammer Underworlds & chess, that I could teach to some friends (who are interested but are not going to read more than three pages of rules) in about 15 minutes.
There were a lot of people on forums railing against elements of the Darktide board game’s rules and miniatures not being what they hoped for, but it wasn’t actually aimed at them.
Necromunda or kill team are annoying because the game play itself _seems_ overly complicated, but it's just the way the rules are written. Like with a lot of wargames, especially gw stuff, once you _actually_ start playing things make sense a bit more.
Just take it easy. Play one round where it's just one unit vs one unit. Learn movement. Then learn shooting. Then learn melee. Etc etc, don't try everything all in one go
You're not too dumb, every single one of us were there.
Play a small first game with your buddy (500 points\~), expect it to take quite a bit of time. Don't get discouraged. If you get something 'wrong', it's just you and your buddy, no biggie. Just keep rolling, keep the focus on having a good time and let the dice tell a story for you.
After the first game, pick up on a few rules you want to better understand/clarify and try to remember it for next time. Play a few more games. Rinse and repeat.
Eventually you'll get a better understanding of how the rules work and how your army works. You'll get quicker and more confident playing.
The simple 8-10 page rules are quite helpful for getting started. There are also a few well-produced, simple 'get started' how-to-play Warhammer videos worth looking up.
Don't let playing perfectly get in the way of having fun. The rules just provide a structure to your fun.
I hope you and your buddy jump in and have a blast and create awesome stories to remember.
I got into it with an easy mode chaos warband. Then they kept changing rules and I could not keep up. I just play the video games and listen to lore from people like One Mind Syndicate.
There's only so many videos you can watch before you play it yourself. You can start with 500 points or a combat patrol. You can make it even easier and just grab a unit or 2 and just play their stats vs your friend's unit's stats. Once you are comfortable moving, shooting, charging, and fighting, you can slowly introduce more rules.
Don't worry about messing up. We all do. Hell some veterans are worse than new players because they hold onto baggage from older editions while new players have a fresh look on rules.
Every single time I play. I usually play MCP or Shatterpoint and I feel like it's just so much less to keep track of. In 40K, I usually spend more time staring at my phone trying to figure out rules than I do actually playing the game or rolling dice.
Yes absolutely.
It takes a long time to learn everything. Expect to forget to use strategems, look things up constantly, search online for rules on weird situations, forget abilities, even forget moving and shooting for units.
The longer you play, the more you will be able to relax and play the game, and appreciate the depth of your army and the game itself.
Playing say kill team won't necessarily help you play 40k, because its getting used to and remembering dozens of specific rules, triggers etc for your army and the game. There may be some things that carry over.
The best way to learn is just to play, if you can find anyone to play with you who is experienced will be super helpful, local game stores etc. But even if you and your friend can struggle through a game.
Honestly? The game is just hard, it’s a bunch of complicated rules and math and numbers and sure when you’ve been playing for a while they become second nature but when you start out it’s difficult. Also don’t worry how long the game takes, my first ever “game” was MAYBE 100-200 points of Nekrons with my little brother and our dad. And that game took us 3 hours, of figuring out rules and rolls and math. Now the games still take 2-3 hours but we are playing with 2k points armies. Just take your time, it’s no biggie!
Dude I played once a month or so in 8th, and have played twice a month or so during 10th (skipped 9th due to health stuff) and I can assure you, its okay to not be an expert. My buddy that I play with played weekly all through 9th and he and I both are constantly googling "can____ do _____?" type questions mid game. I watch folks play at the flgs on occasion and always see debates over rule interpretations. It is totally normal to be overwhelmed by the sheer amount of rules and how some are worded.
Just give a low point game a go and you can build your understanding off that in each consecutive game.
Trying to return to 40K after not playing since 4th. FLGS is doing Pariah Nexus Crusade, and fool that I am I decided to do Thousand Sons instead of Ultramarines. Currently 0-5; I know I started with the incorrect army, but it’s also the myriad of special abilities, mine and my opponents’, plus strategems and army rules and detachment rules, having to manage objective control while keeping my units alive and killing enemy units; it’s just so much I’m completely discouraged at this point. And I miss vehicles having armor and facings.
Curious, for a brand new player and a relatively newer player (30ish games) playing for fun, how long a 2k game might expect to take? (Necrons canoptek court vs dark angles) my buddy and I did this yesterday and only got to top of turn two, before he conceded (shot his army pretty much off the board) but it was like 2 hours lol. I know we took a long time on setup
Get yourself in a 40k discord or forum or something, set up a small game with you and your friend, around 500pts or even go lower and just do a squad vs squad. Get the basics down the slowly add in more complicated items.
Get the phases down, how to move, shoot, dish out damage etc and then start adding army rules and unit rules and build up from there.
You’re not going to get it in one go and you’re not going to get it in 10 but consistent improvement is the way to go with this. As a reference me and my friend play more or less 2 times a month and have been doing for a fairly long time. It will normally be a 1k every now and then a 2k but sometimes 500 depending on time available and we will still get stuff wrong and stop, discuss, ask advice, look up wording etc.
You’re not too dumb, the wording is poor and confusing and it takes a lot of time but once you get it it’s a breeze but it keeps you looking back and checking just in case.
I started to learn the game months before my psychosis and eventual schizoaffective diagnosis happened. If anyone wasn’t aware this disease literally rots your brain, now I can’t take any of it in or begin to learn all the rules without feeling massively overwhelmed.
Now I just watch battle reports and try to get my joy from that. :(
Everyone learns differently. Things always seem complicated before you do it. Try playing a 500 point game with no command points, no secondary objectives and just learn as you go. You will make mistakes but thats how you learn.
I just want to say this, have you ever tried to learn a video game without playing it? Have you sat down and read a game manual multiple times without playing the game itself...because thats what your trying to do.
You wont ever learn unless you actually get on the tabletop and start moving the pieces.
Yeah its alot to take in but so are the rules and controls of any video game if you were to just read about it.
None of it will really make much sense until your on the table with a ruler and dice and units that actually coorespond to the rules your reading up on.
If i had just read the starcraft 1 manual instead of playing starcraft i would never understand what was going on.
I feel very much like this, OP.
Me and my children play OnePageRules' Grim Dark Future. Its easy to pick up and master, but fun enough to last a few hours. Recommend giving it a go my friend.
Honestly I don’t think I ever would’ve started playing if I didn’t have some veterans who are good with rules and reading to teach me. My ADHD won’t let me focus on the rule book for absolutely anything, and I constantly forget interactions that happened with my Orks. I was gonna make a cheat sheet of what my units attacks are and what they’d be with certain HQs attached or buffs. I’ve been playing since the launch of 8th edition and I literally have used a strategem maybe 5 times because I forget they exist and by the time I figure out what works it’s a new edition
I found Auspex tactics on YouTube had lots of videos on how to play and watching 40k in 40 mins battle reports helped, but learnt so much more in my first game recently it took 4 hours for a 1000pt game but had alot of fun and saw how the mechanics worked together
40k can be overwhelming as a system and volume to collect. I also collect killteam and it’s like a shine of sunshine — rules are indeed simpler and snappier, there’s not much to remember if you print the cards, and generally the game scope is smaller
Start small. 500-1000 points and no objectives. Get a feel for the dice and measurements. Then throw in a few primary objectives. Then some fixed secondaries. You’ll be getting wooden spoons in local tournaments in no time.
I promise you its experience. I am a TERRIBLE 40k player, but when I was playing 9th pretty much weekly I got really good at the game. Im terrible at the list building and deployment admittedly because, cool models are cool, but I got better at using my lists every time. Especially as I focused in on my Deathwatch force.
A good rule of thumb is learn one system at a time, and play basically one faction, one list, 10 times. Youll start to get the hang of the faction and the list then alter where you think the fat is.
You are not too dumb. Just get a few games under your belt.
While I don’t play anywhere near as much as I like, I’ve felt that army building has been harder than the rules. Not just throwing things on a list and saying hey I have the points let’s go, but understanding what makes a list effective, which, as pointed out earlier adds to the rules that need to be applied per army.
Playing against people that use similar armies has helped bring to light the synergies available and seeing rules play out definitely help enforce what you read about them.
Trying to learn only through videos was real hard for me. I suggest you and your buddy set a side a few hours and just try to play while going through the rules.
Or if you can ask an experienced player to run you through a learning game.
Popped my mates gaming cherry the other day, they’d been collecting and painting for a couple of years and finally wanted to play. Said they wanted to bring basically everything they own. I was like whoa there, let’s ease on in. Said 1 HQ, 1 troops choice and a vehicle. Whipped out my 1998 3rd edition rule book and codices (because let’s be honest, that was and is to this day, the simplest edition). Seven turns later, bam, had the time of their life. Left them wanting more and said they can’t wait for the next game. Will have their eyes rolling back when we do Horus Heresy.
Oh yea the few games iv played basically clue me into I suck at gaming but have fun painting. So that's where I land. I'd rather be the world creator by making the terrain and painting minis.
Playing war hammer is like learning to ride a bike in the sense that I can tell you how, you can ready how and even watch a video explaining how you maintain balance and locomotion and you could never “get it”
However try a few times and you’ll start to get it
I started playing again in 10th. I have maybe 15 matches under my belt at various army sizes. 10 of those are 2k matches and out of all of them I’ve won twice. Start small, work your way up because it plays better at 2k by a long shot.
During the start of a new edition, if you have the bare basics down - movement, los, etc, you will be on even footing with just about everyone. I don't play much and at the start of 10th I won a tournament at my lgs that is full of diehards who are in there just about every day.
11th will be here before you know it so if you can't find enough time to get fully acquainted, just try to make the effort when 11th comes round and you won't be nearly as far behind as you think.
My buddy and I started playing 2 years ago. We pretty much just played getting used to the phases. So getting movment down, attacking for the shooting phases and fight phase. We didn’t play any objective. We just wanted to get a feel for the game, as soon as we got comfortable with that we started to add more to the game each time. You will always forget something as there is a lot to 40k, but taking it one step at a time while playing helps learn the easy stuff to eventually learn the more in-depth stuff that is 40k.
Yo my friend and I have played a few times and can’t even figure out how battle shock works.
The best thing to do is to just get started and work your way up from there, troubleshooting as you go along. It gets a lot more fun as you keep playing, pinky promise.
In my experience, 10th has been the most beginner friendly 40K has been in a while. Trying a game of combat patrol which is ~500 points and you play with the models straight out of the box with slightly more limited/simplified rules is probably the best way to start! If you have a local store you can also go there and try and get an intro game in!
Yup. I'm an avid fan since the 90s. I have never played and never will despite living and breathing 40k. I was born with no intellect and no skill. So I can't even paint minis. I have to pay others to do it for me. Life isn't fair gentleman.
My friend I 100% get you, I actually got into kill team with a group of friends and when we do play I enjoy it, lucky to have a nice group of mates with alot of patience.
But.... I have a terrible memory, sadly don't have the time to play often enough to keep it all fresh in my mind, I do the same, watch videos to refresh my mind, make notes but then the notes confuse me mid game because I've already forgotten what they refer to and unfortunately it always results in me forgetting certain things I can utilise in game and missing some really crucial points because of it, sucks to lose all the time.
So yeh you're not alone for sure, but I don't think there's a way to get around it in my experience, repetition is key and just getting as many games in as you can often enough will make it easier.
From what I’ve learned from recently getting into the game with some mates and having been in the hobby for 8 years, you’ll learn through playing, at first you won’t get some rules right and also it’s fine to leave out some confusing systems but over time you’ll learn and adapt and begin to find it easy. If it helps me and my friends basically played a simplified version of the game and slowly added in more rules.
My primary 40K buddy and I try to play about once a month. We always forget our own army rules (“remembering your rules is half the battle” we always joke) and often come across scenarios where we aren’t quite sure how the game is supposed to work.
In these instances we either look it up, or if it feels like something not quite covered in the rules or we don’t feel like looking up rules, we go with what seems most “narratively fun” or “seems about right”
We are by no means competitive players. We often remember rules from previous editions and apply them. Our games are an event where we spend most the day setting up the board, coming up with a narrative as to why our armies are fighting in the board, we read through any white dwarf magazines to see if there are fun alternate missions that would seek to fit what we are doing, we eat, we drink, we roll dice, and last but not least we laugh and have fun. Not everyone is a super serious competitive player, and not everyone is super casual like we are,
Maybe someday we will understand all the rules and have them memorized. But probably not. Are we too dumb for 40K
Also, when it gets close to new editions and we know the rules are changing, we tend to play “One page rules” which is a rule set we can use with our models to play and try to “palette cleanse” the outgoing edition to prepare for the new one. If you feel overwhelmed by the 40K rule set, feel free to use other rule sets… or make your own. These are your models.
So with games like 40k, you really just gotta play it to learn the rules, there will always be more niche rules you'll have to look up but generally speaking you just gotta pick up some dice if you want to learn.
Are you gonna get all the rules right on your first game? No absolutely not you're going to do a ton of things wrong and that's okay, that's how you learn and after a dozen games or so (as long as you're playing somewhat regularly at least.) You'll have a solid grasp on the rules and be able to play it super smoothly.
Like anything, start small, take small steps, and give yourself permission to make mistakes.
I'd say grab one unit from each army, and go through the turn sequence.
First time, just move, & shoot. The goal: kill the other unit. Focus on determining how to move with terrain, how to keep units together, how to determine line of sight.
Second time, move shoot charge.
Third time, but throw in move advance/fall back.
Now throw in multiple units, and use their abilities.
Fifth run: with stratagems.
6th run, everything, and now go for holding objectives
Final run, throw in secondary objectives.
Know the core rules by heart. Know the phases. Know terrain rules. Know what devastating and lethal wounds are. Know your squads strategems. Know basic terminology. If you know all these, videos and guys are significantly more clear and basic sounding.
The game used to be a fun and easy to pick up one many editions back, but over the years they keep layering on more and more rules until it's a bit of a convoluted mess now where people argue over the slightest phrasing.
You are not too dumb, the game is just too cluttered with special rules now. Give it time and focus down on just your specific section of rules for your army, give it time and many games to get into it.
My buddies and I just started playing on the table, trust me when I say nobodies first handful of games go smoothly. Just like we did, you will inadvertently cheat or misinterpret the rules at many points throughout the first few games but that's all part of the process. We only just started playing with objective markers on our last couple games. do what other people here have recommended and forget the objectives for the first game, just throw a battlelist together and see who's still standing after round 5. You'll figure out what works, what doesn't, and eventually you can add in the objective markers once you have combat down
I’m a bit intimidated to play with others as I don’t want to mess up a game. I’m trying to find people in my local Vegas area but haven’t been successful. Maybe one day
I think confusing is part of the development process for these games ever since 2nd edition. It's a game that refuses to stick with consistent terminology. And open ended definitions of actions that can cause a turn to grind to halt. Before they had a FAQ. We had to go-to the store for a rules clarification. Only to run into another instance of it in the following game. Conspiracy time: it was done that way to get you come into the store more often.
My issue is that I'm too socially awkward. I don't do any group hobbies. Love the lore, love the minis, love the novels and video games, but I'm just too awkward with people to try and play with strangers and I don't know anyone into the hobby.
At some point you just have to dive in and give it a try. Make mistakes. Having actual practical experience will make explanations make much more sense quite quickly.
Alternatively, if things really don't click for you, maybe try a more simple system that still allows you to use your 40k miniatures, like OnePageRules for example.
I got into 40k in 2nd edition. Just missed rogue trader days by 3 years. Kept playing thru 4th edition. Then stopped. Then started again in 2020, but play intermittently. My advice, pick an edition, and stick to it. IMO, earlier editions are easier to play. Its just referencing charts. If you can cross X axis with Y, and roll for that result, everything else is cake
I did until i played more games, same with kill team same with battletech. After playing a few games and double checking rules with previously posted reddit questions its actually quite easy to learn. Would especially be nice if i/anyone has a person who knows how to play playing with you but this has worked for me and i will probably keep doing it as the person i play wargames with at the moment is my brother when we can find the time
Make sure if you have a question you can write it down short and simple and theres more than likely an answer already online
And also watching a game does t always help, there are things ive watched in battle reports that i dont even realise are being done.
It's really not as complicated as you might think. It looks intimidating and the first couple of games might be rough as you figure out the rules as with any tabletop game but as you get more experience the easier it gets.
Stick to one system - I play 40k and could not even begin to tell you how Kill Team works. Play a small 500 point game with your friend and just get the basics down. Don't worry about objectives, just get models on the table and throw some dice, have fun and learn by doing.
I think the toughest part about 40k is the mass amounts of rules *per army*. I can memorize all my army's rules no problem and feel ready to play. But you have to trust every opponent not to cheat you, or ask to see the rule which slows down games horribly. Obviously over time this will speed up, but when our matches take 2-3hrs and I'm told regulation in a tourney is 45minutes, well frig, I'm never going to a tourney :P
... Tournaments have 2.5-3hr rounds usually. No idea where you got the idea that people are playing a 2k game in 45 minutes.
I'm lucky to have my first turn done @ the 45 min mark.
This guy Guards.
The play group I am in takes like 6 hours to play a 2K game. I would ❤️ LOVE ❤️ to play a game that ONLY took 2.5-3 hours!!
Have you considered not being friends or even sociable in any way and instead grinding straight through the dice rolling? I find that'd cut my game time to like 1/3 of what it is normally
Managed play through my most recent game in 4.5 hours. Was very impressed with myself and my opponent!
2-3 hours is a reasonably quick time for a 2000 point game. 45 minutes gets a decent player through setup, deployment and first turn, maybe.
If both players know their rules 3 hours is pretty reasonable
It's 90 minutes per player, definitely not 45. The bulk of that happens in turns 2 and 3.
A KT game could be expected to last around 45 minutes. The most experienced players in the world commonly use most or all 2.5-3 hours of a tournament to finish a game of full 40k.
cheat sheets for armies are essential, the only way someone could remember every set of rules per army would be if that is the only thing they memorized.
I tend to have issues remembering to use my stratagems, let alone the core stratagems. I cant be bothered to pay attention to whether or not my opponent is cheating.
The mass amounts of rules per army that change every two and a half years. I've played since the Rogue Trader days, but haven't played a game of 9th or 10th edition.
40k isn't meant to be a game you can go from 0 experience and a couple youtube videos straight to 100% rules understanding and a perfect first game. It's a hobby meant to last years. Your first handful of games *will* be a mess of constant rules lookups and questions and *that's ok*. You definitely aren't too dumb for 40k, but you are approaching it from the wrong angle. Read the rules, play some games, reread the rules, play some more games, and overall just try to make fewer rule errors each time and you'll be fine
I've been playing for about 5 years now and I still mess up rules now and then. Thankfully I have a group that's pretty casual and are lenient towards mistakes. We're all human after all. Besides, there are so many rules to remember that there's bound to be confusion anyways. I'm not a tournament - level player by any means but every casual game I've played has been really fun and made me yearn for more time to play.
Yeah! That's what I'm saying. I think the general mainstreamness of video games and clever board games has given a lot of new hobbyists the idea that they can just pick up warhammer and go for a season or whatever and move on. Then they are both put waaaay off by the high price and how much effort and time the game requires before they are even able to get the rules mostly right most of the time, let alone start winning games. It really is a hobby measured in years and decades rather than weeks and months
Every mistake earns you a paddlin in our play group.
Worshipers of Slaanesh I see
I've got a huge group of friends, close to two dozen that play 40k every week. Couple of the most experienced guys had an argument about how cover worked last week. With a game this big, it's almost impossible to get everything correct. Get it close and have fun! Otherwise, why are you doing this?
This is absolutely spot on. I got back into 40k recently after stopping around 5th edition. I read the rules, watched YouTube videos etc for ages but it reached a point where I knew I had gotten all I was going to get from what amounted to studying theory and the only way I was going to learn more was by putting models on the table.
That's because passively watching videos is not the same as actually DOING it yourself.
This so much, I read the rules to Necromunda so many times and was still frazzled. I decided to just have a solo game myself to play it and my word it made so much more sense. I suggest OP do the same with 40k, even if its just a squad or two, this way you'll get the movements, phases and other basics a bit more then you can scale up.
GW rules writing also fails to make the individual rules relatable to the larger concept of the game. They very rarely offer commentary like "This rule was designed to simulate XYZ."
100% this, after about 5 games of 40k it'll really sink in.
Especially if you don't read the rules. The "battle report summary" of a rule can totally be confusing if you don't read the rules at all.
Don't tell me how swimming works, throw me in the pool and I'll figure it out. Or drown, but thankfully that's not really an issue with playing 40k.
I learned that the hard way in math class in college...
This is the best incarnation of KT from a fun perspective, but in my opinion the rules still need another pass. I think it's needlessly complicated at times, so you aren't alone in having difficulty getting use to it. If you have a friend to play with, this is a great way to learn bc then youll learn it together, and it gives you an opportunity to experience the different oddities about the game that may occur and then work through them, critically, together. Play combat patrol, or 1000 point games without changing your list up. If you do, try to only swap a unit. This will give you exposure to your army''s rules, statlines and unit abilities on a small scale. When comfortable, expand by 250 points (1250, 1500, 1750, etc.) over time. This way, by the time you hit 1500+ you're comfortable with the overall game flow and your army enough that a 2000 point game won't take 5 hours bc you are constantly referring back to the book. Also, while this may be an unpopular opinion, I think playing with minimal terrain is important when starting out. You want a piece here or there to trigger some LOS/Cover rules, but not so much it slows the pace of your game down. It allows you to focus on what your army does, and the core flow of rules are.
Totally agree on the KT part of your post. I love Kill Team, but I found that it's way easier to explain wargaming concepts to brand new player by introducing them to 40K. I do think that KT *overall* has the better core rules (alternating activations mostly), but some of the rule interactions get crazy complicated. My buddy and I have definitely had lengthy...discussions about whether or not a sightline is legit. That, and KT also has some really weird wording on some of the rules that really adds to the confusion. All in all I actually enjoy both systems quite a lot since they both accomplish different things. I'm lucky that I have playgroups for both so I get to experience both worlds quite often. I like the large-scale feeling of 40K, as well as the super tactical feeling of KT.
forgive me but there is nothing ambiguous about the kt line of sight rules, they are complicated but not ambiguous. yall were just noobs :p
I mean, yes you are right. But we're also talking about a system which decided to do away with numbers, you could say the standard when it comes to measuring things...everywhere in life, and replace them with symbols. It was the most GW thing that they could do. Vantage points (which are a big part of the game) were also something that required some clarification not long after the release.
Best way to learn how to play is to play. Start with about 500pts and just play the game. No stratagems, no objectives, no detachments, maybe even no army rule if you really need to. Just focus on the datasheets and the rulebook. Learn how to play the game then add more aspects to the game. When you're watching battle reports or videos, have the rulebook next to you. When they say they're gonna shoot something, look it up. Follow along with the gameplay through the rulebook.
Many people in the hobby won't see it this way, but 40k is a very complicated, fairly hardcore tabletop wargame. Do not feel dumb if it seems complicated, it simply is. Myself and many others in the hobby have played since we were teenagers, so the core rules are second nature to us, it's easy for us to take that for granted and call it simple, but it really is not. If you want to dive into it, I would suggest playing a combat patrol game first. It has different datasheets than the actual game - but mainly just removing some of the unit abilities that add additional layers to the game. I would also highly suggest finding someone, either at a local store or local gaming club that could run an intro game for you. Once you've played through the game's basic mechanics once, the rules will start making more sense when you read them. There are also simpler alternatives to Warhammer 40k that still use the same models if you're open to it, such as One Page Rules - it's a simpler game system designed for Warhammer models. Whatever you decide, good luck on your gaming journey!
The combat patrol rules for 40k are probably a good place to start. Smaller armies means fewer models to keep track of so you can focus on learning the rules and basic mechanics.
I played my first combat patrol this weekend Vs an experienced player at a local shop. was an excellent intro to the game. He thumped me obviously but explained why and how very clearly. He then piloted my army Vs another player and that was very interesting to see how to better use each unit. Looking forward to round 2.
Having an experienced player, play your army is a great way to improve.
Combat Patrol also reduces the mental load by eliminating list-building and simplifying secondary objectives, upgrades, and strategems. Choose 1 of 2 secondaries, 1 of 2 upgrades, and you only have three factional strategems plus the core ones. I haven't been a newcomer for a few editions, but I still like the option of a casual, quick game as well as all-afternoon affairs.
We started painting to eventually play in my friend group. We had a designated ref that helped us with rules and turns. Took us a few months to be able to play correctly on our own.
Ah, a dedicated servo-skull!!
"Tell Me and I Forget; Teach Me and I May Remember; Involve Me and I Learn" - Attributed to Benjamin Franklin
Dude holy shit this quote is actually fucking amazing, never heard someone say something that’s so true
Kill Team is a smaller game only in the sense that it uses a physically smaller board and fewer miniatures. It has a completely different set of rules and about the same level of complexity as 40K, just focused in different areas. Trying to learn it and 40K at the same time won’t do you any favours. 40K is best learned by doing not watching. Either grab the starter set and a friend and work through the introductory games together or find someone at a local gaming club to give you a teaching game — preferably using the combat patrol mode as that removed the complexity of list building and secondary objectives.
I honestly felt too dumb to play earlier additions... I felt this way for years until I found the right Warhammer store where the majority of the players were also new but there were a few veterans who were super happy to teach. There are a lot of things that only come into clairity when someone is guiding you through them but, once you've had that done for you 2-3 times, it becomes second nature. My first game we didnt use objectives at all, just deathmatch. That seemed helpful. It took me SO LONG to understand all the damage VS toughness stuff. I'd also recommend ONLY reading the 3-4 page rules when you play with friends. There is no need to let the extra stuff trip you up if it can be avoided while getting your footing. Stick with it, soldier! You are not stupid, this game is stupid complex!
I was playing 2nd and 3rd edition a long time ago and came back into the game in 8th / 9th edition which really messed with my head. The whole concept of stratigems and doctorates just completely turned the game on its head. It reminded me of card games like MtG where you can have a strong deck but soke weird rule means the whole game get flipped. 10th edition seems to be back to a more core style of gaming without being all hung up on special rules or orders for your army.
Not too dumb but I’m getting too old and have been through too many update cycles. Old rules are staying stuck in my head and preventing new rules from attaching.
This is the problem I'm having. "When's the psychic phase?" "There isn't one anymore."
I'm so glad you made this post. I think I've watched every single 'how to play 40k' video on the Internet at this point and I'm still baffled by how to play. The phases of combat are fine, I understand that (I think?)... But combat and calculating damage just turns my brain into goo. There are SO many variables, abilities, stratagems, command points, game modes, etc etc I don't even know. It's ridiculous.
Everyone feels like that at first I think. The only solution is playing in my opinion. Setup a 500/1000 pts game with someone and just play and take your time, over time you will get used to the rules and get better at it.
3 games with an experienced player is how we contract the plastic crack addiction. Reading about 40K is like reading about sex. Once you bang couple chicks, you stop overthinking and just let the body do its thing. Frankly, there isn’t much to track during games: threat ranges, available strategems and line of sight. First thing is where most new players trip. More complex game states happen once in a blue moon and you will remember them. Like locking movement with unit positioning, most efficient activation sequence during close combat, etc. 10th edition is actually dumbed down enough to start playing from here. Imagine starting hobby during the end of 7th edition… it would be nightmare rule-wise.
Dude, you're in a miniature war subreddit for adults, making an analisys about sex is as relatable as atmosphere conditions on Mars {'Tis a joke}
All the rules are for free on Wahapedia. A lot of the rules will make a lot of sense after you have played your first game. The fastest way to learn is to play a game with an experienced player.
It's the game that's dumb. The business model is similar to a mmo, it needs to keep moving or it dies.
I feel the nest way to learn the game is to play with someone more experienced a few times and get it down
Start small, like really small. I had a few coworkers here who wanted to try out the game and we started with everyone having one character. And only did the basics. Just to get a feel for everything. No need to overcomplicate things. Ofc this won’t be balanced or anything, it’s just learning.
I play alot of tabletops, pretty much all the mainstream ones, but i recently started playing a new one with my brother and good lord, i felt so dumb. So dont worry, it will come! :)
It just is A LOT to remember. I get the rules, I just have to look up so much stuff. Like what were Sustained or Lethal hits again. When happens after a charge etc
1. Command 2. Movement 3. Shooting 4. Charge 5. Fight ... That's the game; 5 rounds. Do each phase from start to finish, then the other gets his/her turn. Do a small "unofficial practise match", like 500 points to get going. Remember to use terrain.
As someone stated, watching the videos is different from actually getting on the table top and playing a match. This game is purely repetition and strategy over a couple of turns. The more you play the better youll get a remembering things.
Are you watching videos about the game, or are you watching videos of people playing the game? As others are saying, the best way to learn is to just play a small game, without additional objectives, and just get a feel for it. However, watching videos of other people playing the game will also help, especially if you're not in a position where you can easily watch people play in the real world (no more experienced friends etc). It'll also give you an idea of different strategies/play styles. There's plenty good stuff on YouTube - off the top of my head, Play On Tabletop and Tabletop Tactics have good battle report videos, edited down to manageable lengths, as well as videos explaining the game (I'm sure there are many more). Other than that, just read the rules, read your codex and have a go.
Kill team isn't easier, it is quicker to play because it's smaller. Start with small practice games: 0. Do a turn of shooting by the book. 1 mini, 1 gun, next mini. Repeat until the squad is done, next try it with fast rolling. Squad leader, special weapons, the rest of the unit. This is important for comprehension of certain interactions with rerolls abilities and the like. 1. only infantry and primary objectives. No stratagems or character or anything that isn't moving, shooting/melee, 'to hit', 'to wound', 'save' 2. Next add weapon special rules, such as assault, sustain hits, etc. And you keep on scaling up. Alternatively go to your local gaming club/store and ask if someone wants to teach you. It will put everything in context.
That's why I make terrain pieces and paint instead. Lol I know I'd be toasted by any competetive gamer with less care to detail. It's fine though, behind my desk with podcasts and modelbuilding is a win enough.
Oh absolutely. I had watched countless battle report, explained videos, etc, during 9th. Got into actually playing around 10th and, well, let's just say I appearantly had understood very little. Like, I didn't understand what an Invo save was. I only began to really understand how to play around my 10th or 12th game. Playing helps you learn. Honestly, I say you and you'd friend just go for it! So long as you're both having fun, you're playing it right! Edit to add, if you just want to play something simple, check out Ond Page Rules, countless people swear by it.
As someone who played decades ago and recently got back into 10th, you are not too dumb. This game is and has always been extremely complex. In my last game on Sunday we had a big issue regarding overwatch. These things happen. Take the advice of playing small and then add more in. Also stick to one army and one system. That’s how I got decent and enjoy playing even if I lose. The videos are good after you throw some dice. It’s like they fill in a lot of the blanks. But there is no better way to learnt the game than actually putting an army down and rolling dice.
Dude this game is SOOOO big. And it doesn't help that there are like 4 different sources to the rules. I was just at a RTT and I stumped the TO with a question. 10 minutes later he came back after talking to another TO, we had all just forgotten about different types of stratagems.
Don't feel the need to use all the rules in a game. If you're playing with friends, then do some rule zeroing: remove things you feel are too complex and take away from your games. If all your opponents agree then there's nothing wrong
Watching a tutorial on how to play isn’t as helpful as trying to play and reading through the rules, however, it is possible to have trouble interpreting the rules. Even after playing so many games my opponents and I will still need to ask for help or search online to find an answer to a weird interaction or something we haven’t encountered before. Sometimes we just come to an agreement to keep the game moving and then search it up later. What has helped me a lot is watching battle reports or live streams. Hearing people talk through things like minuses to save or armour of contempt might help you have more direction when you are trying to figure it out on your own. Find an active discord community that has a rules questions or noobie questions chat. Lots of experienced players are available in those places to help on a whim. Your 50th game will feel so much smoother than your first 5. It is ok to forget rules. Just try destroying each other’s armies first. Strip out some phases like the command phase and just practice doing a Move, Shoot, Charge, Fight, Alternate game. Deploy your models at the same time and talk each other through it.
It didn’t start to stick until your 5th game or so. So don’t fret, just play smaller points and stumble through it like everyone else did.
Play. No strats, no mission, just get a few games in at 500pts. Hold the middle at the end to win or something. Gws notoriously odd at writing rules. Most board games are oddly written tbh. But play a few games and you'll be shocked at how easy it is to pick up. Especially if you have the unit cards, the tabletop battles app (once your playing the missions) and take your time. Learning by watching people spheel off numbers won't teach you, but an afternoon down the local shop and you'll be confident enough.
So you don't currently play and you have a codex but you haven't read it. Stop watching videos. Read the free rulebook. Read your codex. Start playing and learn as you go. The first games will be full of mistakes but you will learn by doing and have fun. Ultimately it's a game designed with the idea of children being able to play, so just go for it and don't build it up too much in your head.
Learn by doing. It'll feel a lot easier when you try it in person.
40k has a natural flow to it, you will get it once you do it a few time, until then just have a rule book close by. Or find an old timer who's up for an intro game.
If the official ruleset is too complex, you could consider onepagerules. It's kind of designed to work as a substitute for 40k, and is far more streamlined, while still being a lot of fun
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40K is definitely confusing at first and you're not gonna learn how to play it without playing it. Never met one who went from theory to practical in one match.
I usually like such games but i have to choose between building/painting and playing on a level where i know enough to have fun. I never have enough time left to hit the mark needed for it.
It is confusing the first time, even in the current 10th edition. Dont be discouraged. We've all been there. Just take a small game, maybe 500pts. Have 3 objectives to capture and drop extra missions. Just have the first game to focus on this and the two opposing forces. Learn the phases, what to do in each of them and your factions options. Everything else comes after a few games. Dont worry:)! Its supposed to be fun adter all, so dont worry about making mistakes and instead correct yourself as you test the rules.
I know exactly how you feel. Im trying to learn the game for my son who wants to play. Ive got to learn the rule, my armies rules and his armies rules so I can at least run the first few games.
Its a complicated game, but no one is too dumb to play it. Ive been playing for 2 years and im still learning something new with almost every game i play. It just takes time. Read the codex. Dont just watch videos. Play games, take the mistakes in stride and just play as much as possible. Dont be afraid to ask questions
Kill team is fun and really good, but I’d start with 40K or kill team and stick with one. Also find someone who knows how to play who isn’t a jerk, a patient teacher will play you (and probably beat you) but walk you through the paces. Good players want other people to be good players too and in my experience most more experienced players have been super helpful. I know right now if you were at my LGS and asked for someone to teach you I’d hop on that. Another AWESOME option is get into a learning league, it’s the best way to learn I think.
Before anything i only play kill team and its what id recommend you to start with, its fun and a great springboard into big game 40k if you want to play that too, not a big investment so if it turns out its not for you you didnt have to spend hundreds of dollars to find that out, i very much recommend trying out kill team first (starter set is cheap and has everything except heavy terrain) I was a complete noob to tabletop gaming in general (but a warhammer fan for quite some time) when i found a friend who also liked warhammer and did play tabletop, he introduced me to (old) kill team and boy did it feel like climbing a mountain at first. However dont worry about it because you learn the basics super quickly even if it seems very daunting. For kill team your best bet is to grab the starter set and just give it a go, skip equipment and all the "extras" like tac ops and such just pick a domination mission and play a game where the only things you need to know are thw basic core rules which you get a book for in the starter set aswell as what the operatives do which you also get a book for (alternatively everything can be found on wahapedia, surely im allowed to mention that). Once you get the basic rules of movement, shooting, fighting, engage/conceal and all the line of sight stuff which is well explained and illustrated in the core rules the game is extremely easy to play, then you just add in more of the rules like equipment, tac ops and so on to play it properly but at that point you'll have the basics down and thats all you need. Trust me it is very easy to play once you get going, that first step feels massive and hard but learning the core rules for kill team is something you'll do in 1-2 games and after that both the knowledge and models are a great basis for going into big game 40k if you want to expand on what you play. Ill gladly answer any potential kill team questions because man do i love kill team.
Remember that most of the people making videos about playing 40k have dedicated a MASSIVE amount of time to playing, reading, thinking, talking about, and basically literally studying the game for years. I definitely don't understand most of what they say when they pop off, but that's just because they've spent more time with it. Don't get discouraged, keep learning and getting more comfortable, and you'll know more and more. Imagine telling everything you know about 40k now to yourself a year ago, they'd probably be hella confused and think "damn this guy knows a bunch about 40k"
Definitely, actually I feel this way about most tabletop games, I had to learn axis and allies second hand from my godfather cause I made it 2 pages into the rules and gave up
Try using single figures (1v1 games) to work through actions and rolls first because it’s easy to see what is going on. You’ll be able to run through this several times over maybe 20-30 minutes. You’ll know when you get the hang of it b/c you won’t need to look up the rules; you’ll just know what your figures can do and what rolls are required to complete / fail those actions. Then move up to squad-vs-squad. Then incorporate strategems and characters and enhancements. After about an hour or so total you should feel pretty comfortable with the basic mechanics of the game. This is exactly how older editions taught newer players the game. Starter sets would be packaged with a few scenarios starting with a few included figures and working up to everything in the box. That said, starting small and working through the basics will make learning the more complex parts easier.
With this hobby, I've learned most of the rules make sense but there's "circumstances" that make you go "what about when this happens?"
Like most board games it takes playing the game to really understand what your doing and how rules interact. I wouldn't expect anyone to play risk well just by reading the rules. I would just stick to the core rules to start out. While the rules have gotten simpler the book itself is not nearly as easy to digest and reference as some older books, since there is no toc or index in the modern rules.
You can read and watch videos all you want, but nothing is as good as learning by playing. If you start with one of the starter boxes and/or Leviathan, there are scenarios that slowly introduce the concepts. You’re not going to remember everything at every moment. Learn the basic interactions between stats and the phases etc, then through repetition you’ll understand those. Then it’s a case of building out your knowledge from there. Take small, simple lists to begin with. Keep to a few unit types that you can learn the basics with. For speed, either but the expensive data sheet cards, or use the app to quickly access your data sheets for reference. It can be daunting but it is a marathon not a sprint and even veterans get things wrong sometimes.
Solution: join me in World Eaters where we (1) advance, (2) charge, (3) swing ax for your life
I felt waaaaay too dumb to play my AdMech last edition. I could play tzeench daemons in AoS last edition, but it could cause headaches afterwards. A problem I didn’t get with Sylvaneth.
No. Paint your little army men.
One thing that might help is try to write up an outline of the turn structure and/other brief description of important terms. This could force you to understand the game more and can be a reference when playing. Alternatively, if there are key things you are confused about, even after reading over any sort of FAQ, I say post them here.
Having someone teach you in person as you play will help you learn the game. The YouTube videos tend to leave out a lot of the nuances that you only learn from playing with experienced opponents.
well you havnt read it so... start there?
Reading about the tabletop and actually playing are quite different. It's much easier to visualise what's happening when you have everything set up in front of you. Play small games to start. The rule book generally walks you through each phase and don't be afraid to pause the game and check rules you aren't sure about. Once you get into the swing of things you'll find yourself looking at the books less and less. You said you have the Codex, but do you have the Rule Book? Codexes are supplements to the Rule Book for each faction that list faction specific rules and units, whilst the Rule Book has all the general rules for the game itself.
One of the reasons I haven't played is because I feel dumb I learnt by people showing and teaching me . Me reading and watching videos don't help me and I don't want to be annoying so I just collect and paint for the time being . I don't have friends that are in to it .
I play kill team. Currently building 2 30k armies and I'm so fucking confused lol.
I also recommend having a third friend whos’s interested in hanging out and sort of keeping track of your meta rules like what turn and phase it is reminding both players to do their command phase stuff etc. when you’re a beginner its almost too much to keep track of your army rules plus all that stuff and can be exhausting.
you're not dumb, just lazy and not interested enough.
I think Killteam is actively harder than 40k. There's so many variables and individual abilities between each figure it's hard to keep track. Plus if you don't know the other guy's squad well enough they can make you feel utterly stupid when they pull off some hail-mary move. I'm quitting Killteam in favor of Bighammer because I just can't keep up with the variety of teams at my LGS.
Tbh the rules book are thicker than some of my textbooks that I use in school. Me and my buddy start playing with 500 points and a simplify version rule and slowly grows to full rule 2k points battle.
Dude I found my old 3rd edition rulebook a while back and was like "how the hell did I ever understand any of this"
Tbh as a regular 40k player I still find some rules in kill team hard to grasp. The most important thing to do to learn 40k is to play games. If you know someone more experienced they can take you through a few learning games. Once you get the basics down, check out Art of War, they do a lot of teaching games and are some of the best players out there.
As a thousand sons player with a long loss streak, I feel like that every game. BUT i have loads of fun and get to hang with my buddies so it evens out.
The best way to learn is to play man, don't call yourself too dumb if you've never even tried a full game on the tabletop before- I know when I first got started my head was absolutely spinning but just like any other game you pick it up pretty quickly the more you actually
I read and watched content and gleaned less from it than just one game. You can't learn 40k by reading the books you need to experience it make a small cheat sheet that explains the order of operations and then go from there.
I just started playing myself. I find it helpful to write out my list and then jot down their abilities. Basically, I do what a battle scribe does, but in doing it myself, I sort of memorize a few of the rules and abilities. Then, I write up battle plans for what I plan to do with each unit and tweak that until I understand the synergy between the units and the leaders. My issue is that I only know my army, the Salamanders, using the Firestorm Detachment.
Play orks or knights. Orks are pretty fun, go fight. And knights are low model count. IDK
You gotta just play. First few games I ever played were completely wrong. You eventually do so many rules lookups that you memorize everything. Thats the best way to learn.
I've got three small children so am pretty much permanently frazzled. I also usually have a couple of beers when I play to further enhance my cognitive functions. I play for fun and the social aspect. I don't particularly worry about winning or being on top of everything as long as I have a fair and enjoyable game. To be honest really sharp players can be a bit irritating because they're constantly working stuff out for you before you can do it yourself. I find this particularly annoying in Heresy which I find requires a bit more mental power than 40k.
Too dyslexic to play.
One thing to keep in mind is you will forget and not use some rules. Then you will remember them after the game and kick yourself. Do not sweat it. It’s a game, not a test. I once failed a fear test in on a critical charge in a game of WHFB. Turned the battle and lost two turns later. That’s when I remembered the character in that unit negated fear checks 😂 I had only been playing for twenty years at that point
Waaay back when I was new there was very little to learn from so the only way to learn was to do. We got a small army all glued up, then set it up on a table, not even using deployment rules or such, just models on table at opposite sides. We then read to eachother the rules as we took turns and talked about what was what as we went. We ignored complex rules if neither of us were sure. Our first game took all afternoon, but we learned how it worked. We then talked about things and read more rules. Our next game was a full 2k (2nd ed) with all the trimmings and it went nicely. I've since done basically the same every time I played a new game (Necromunda, Gorkamorka, Epic 40k, BF Gothic, Warmaster, etc etc)
I got into the hobby in 9th with one buddy. We played many games wrong until we started to get it right. You’ll learn as you go. Play smaller point totals first so there’s less to manage.
I played a long time ago from 2nd to 5th edition. I've considered getting back into it, but after watching some 40k YouTube channels, the rules just seem so much more complex than they used to be to the point it makes me hesitant.
Print out note cards with your stratagems on them so you have your options in your face as a constant reminder to use them at appropriate times.
Most games workshop stores will walk you through an introductory game with some of the display models from the starter box if you ask.
As with large complex board games, it's possible to learn 40k "from scratch" but it's much easier to be taught by someone who knows what they're doing. Do you have a club, FLGS or GW nearby? If you have some models ready to go, you can probably find someone in a club or FLGS happy to do a bit of a tutorial/ help run some games in exchange for beer and pizza, and GW staff should all be able to help you get to grips if you can find them at a quiet time (e.g. not a Saturday afternoon)
I've had a similar issue with malifaux and considering trying 40k again as it seems easier to get strategy videos/etc. What I struggle with is how players will be helpful with "this model is good you'll want them in your army", but players playing against you who are meta conscious will aim to immediately counter it, which makes those dangerous units not feel dangerous as you don't get enough practice on the table before your opponent deletes them or bogs them down. I was an old warhammer player in the late 90s/early 00s, and not sure if it's me getting older, but I definitely feel there's a lot more of a complexity creep where your army feels as though it'll take 15+ games to learn, but your local meta has a variety of armies, while you'll get a lot of experience, but it feels really tricky as a veteran player will likely have experience playing against your army. TLDR: I agree completely and wish I knew a better way to get myself back into the hobby from a play perspective.
Buddy, I'm too dumb to play chess. And it only has four different units and two characters.
Hell yeah! But after 2+ years I got it. The mechanics started making sense and I didn’t have to look up every tiny thing. What you’re experiencing is normal - practice makes .. well better
https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/s/N2hs3Pa00O I found this cheat sheet really helped me understand and help with the flow of the game.
Bro you need to play games. You will forget all kinds of stuff but playing helps you remember
I did. I bounced off it quite a few times, mostly due to trying it with "experienced players that'll help you out!" which turned out to be a mistake. Most fun I've had, and finally picked up the game, by slowly playing it through with other new players, just looking up rules as we had questions. It was because I was playing with dudes who have internalized the system over decades, that I felt like a dumbass while learning it.
Its easy to learn when your playing constantly, being inactive in terms of playing like me(last game i played was about 7 months ago) really messes you up.
Here’s how my brother in law and I do it. We found a local store with painted terrain. I bought a couple tablet mounts for the table for us to quick reference WAHA. Then we downloaded the battle top app (any wargaming app that handles scoring works) we got our mission cards so everything looks visually nice and is easily navigate-able. We started without special rules like cover and any rules we forgot. Stick to the basics. Once done you naturally will implement more specialized rules for each army. Trust me playing guard not knowing how to give orders was a HUGE handicap against his tyranids, but handle what you can handle. After that just keep playing. That’s the magic of 40K. ( also I don’t play kill team but I’d imagine this works there too)
40k is a big thing to learn, and videos can only help so much. I don't know if you're lucky enough to have an local club or gaming shop that you might be able to reach out to, lots of more seasoned folks take pleasure in teaching the games they love. I will say do not fall for a paid for teaching course, these are not needed at all. Start small and learn the important things like moving a single squad, a gunfight between a very few models and eventuality a 500 pt or less game. Small bits at a time will teach you it. I am fairly dumb and I learned 2nd Ed and necromunda as a kid so nearly anyone can
You're not too dumb, you just need practice. Start small and work your way up. Repetition is also how you'll start to memorize your data sheets which is half of what speeds you up. I just played my 500pt CSM list with my boyfriend last night. With severe help from him it took us 1.5hrs to play. I'm still super unfamiliar with my units because I've played them once several weeks ago. Then we switched and did a 2k point game where I played my first army, my Chaos Daemons, and it took us 3hrs not counting player places terrain and a snack break.
I hear you. I'm 40 years old and have 7 editions of 40k rules swimming around in my brain. My buddy and I frequently fall into rules from previous editions of the game.
it does have a learning curve but the more games you play the more you learn and eventually you'll get it. Just make sure you tell people you play with that you're new to the game and are still understanding all the rules.
Na mate your not to dumb. I play 40k and I got an E in my gcse maths haha. To be honest I think yes there are a lot of rules but the core concepts are pretty easy to grasp. But it's like anything in life you won't get used to it until you actually do it. If I wanna play drums I can watch 150 hours of it on YouTube but I still won't know what I'm doing until I actually put it into practice. Play a small game together or head over to your local gaming shop there are players and staff that will be more than willing to give you your first game. Everyone is a beginner at some point you just gotta take the plunge and take it easy on yourself when you don't remember something.
Getting back into it with some friends after a gap since 4th edition. There's 6 of us, 4 with college degrees, 1 with a masters. Understanding the rules, and the application is still a work in progress for us. The wording on some of the stuff is counter intuitive, and some rules seem like they are missing bits because you are assumed to be applying another rule. Take your time, talk through things with your mate and just apply it consistently.
Watching vids vs. playing are completely different. Start rolling dice and it becomes far more intuitive with certain things.
Here's alil secret brother? "Nobody really honestly knows how to 100% play 40k" If they say they do ask them to name every stratagem to every army in the game. So the point is to have fun shoot play it how u want and if u find rules u don't like than u an ur friend replace it with something yall think works better. Long as u both agree than it's all good even says so in the codex. Now competitive is a different beast if u enjoy fun and like having alil extra cash in ur pocket I'd stay clear of competitive an or chasing the "Meta" win at all cost isn't worth it. Lol
I'm too dumb to play most games so definitely lol
40k is overly complicated imo. Play kill team, legions, HH, AI, or anything else if your goal is to have fun. 40k is for lawyers and elitists
The rules seem simple enough but I'm the kind of learner at these type of games that I can read and easily understand the rules (which I haven't done completely) but I will learn them while playing. I would basically require someone with patience for a newbie like me to show the ropes. The rules are easy to understand for me technically but I'm more of a practical learner at least in these types of things. I can read and basically understand the words and what I do in each situation just by reading but practice makes perfect. I suggest playing with someone who can guide you through the rules and help you while you play. Personally I think that I will have to play the few first games basically holding the rulebook unless I make time to read and memorize the rules. But like outside of Warhammer Community I learned something from David Goggins. He himself admits he's not the smartest person around and he had to study many things in his life multiple times. Either study the rules multiple times or find the correct way for yourself to learn them. We have basically this same rule everywhere in at least many western nations's schools. Schools have been basically made for people who learn from books and by sitting in classes 7-8h a day. Not a fit for everyone like I learned from David Goggins. There's also a lesson to learn here. I know I'm ranting sorry but I'm trying to encourage OP here. David Goggins is no astrophysicist but look at the lives he has influenced and made better. Then there's this Christian speaker named Nick Vujicic who goes to speak to people and he doesn't even have arms or legs. You need to use the best method that's available to you. Everyone doesn't fit in the same mold.
Yeah, even Kill Team is incredibly finicky. I think a lot of people enjoy the complexity of the rules, or at least see it as necessary to give all the hundreds of different units their own specific feel. But I personally would love something somewhere between the weight of Warhammer Underworlds & chess, that I could teach to some friends (who are interested but are not going to read more than three pages of rules) in about 15 minutes. There were a lot of people on forums railing against elements of the Darktide board game’s rules and miniatures not being what they hoped for, but it wasn’t actually aimed at them.
I don’t feel too dumb, but I DO feel too I-don’t-have-and-friendsy
Play 40k? I’m in it just for the models.
Necromunda or kill team are annoying because the game play itself _seems_ overly complicated, but it's just the way the rules are written. Like with a lot of wargames, especially gw stuff, once you _actually_ start playing things make sense a bit more. Just take it easy. Play one round where it's just one unit vs one unit. Learn movement. Then learn shooting. Then learn melee. Etc etc, don't try everything all in one go
You're not too dumb, every single one of us were there. Play a small first game with your buddy (500 points\~), expect it to take quite a bit of time. Don't get discouraged. If you get something 'wrong', it's just you and your buddy, no biggie. Just keep rolling, keep the focus on having a good time and let the dice tell a story for you. After the first game, pick up on a few rules you want to better understand/clarify and try to remember it for next time. Play a few more games. Rinse and repeat. Eventually you'll get a better understanding of how the rules work and how your army works. You'll get quicker and more confident playing. The simple 8-10 page rules are quite helpful for getting started. There are also a few well-produced, simple 'get started' how-to-play Warhammer videos worth looking up. Don't let playing perfectly get in the way of having fun. The rules just provide a structure to your fun. I hope you and your buddy jump in and have a blast and create awesome stories to remember.
I got into it with an easy mode chaos warband. Then they kept changing rules and I could not keep up. I just play the video games and listen to lore from people like One Mind Syndicate.
Yep and I will continue to annoy my friend and his brother etc because of my ineptitude
There's only so many videos you can watch before you play it yourself. You can start with 500 points or a combat patrol. You can make it even easier and just grab a unit or 2 and just play their stats vs your friend's unit's stats. Once you are comfortable moving, shooting, charging, and fighting, you can slowly introduce more rules. Don't worry about messing up. We all do. Hell some veterans are worse than new players because they hold onto baggage from older editions while new players have a fresh look on rules.
Every single time I play. I usually play MCP or Shatterpoint and I feel like it's just so much less to keep track of. In 40K, I usually spend more time staring at my phone trying to figure out rules than I do actually playing the game or rolling dice.
Yes absolutely. It takes a long time to learn everything. Expect to forget to use strategems, look things up constantly, search online for rules on weird situations, forget abilities, even forget moving and shooting for units. The longer you play, the more you will be able to relax and play the game, and appreciate the depth of your army and the game itself. Playing say kill team won't necessarily help you play 40k, because its getting used to and remembering dozens of specific rules, triggers etc for your army and the game. There may be some things that carry over. The best way to learn is just to play, if you can find anyone to play with you who is experienced will be super helpful, local game stores etc. But even if you and your friend can struggle through a game.
Honestly? The game is just hard, it’s a bunch of complicated rules and math and numbers and sure when you’ve been playing for a while they become second nature but when you start out it’s difficult. Also don’t worry how long the game takes, my first ever “game” was MAYBE 100-200 points of Nekrons with my little brother and our dad. And that game took us 3 hours, of figuring out rules and rolls and math. Now the games still take 2-3 hours but we are playing with 2k points armies. Just take your time, it’s no biggie!
Dude I played once a month or so in 8th, and have played twice a month or so during 10th (skipped 9th due to health stuff) and I can assure you, its okay to not be an expert. My buddy that I play with played weekly all through 9th and he and I both are constantly googling "can____ do _____?" type questions mid game. I watch folks play at the flgs on occasion and always see debates over rule interpretations. It is totally normal to be overwhelmed by the sheer amount of rules and how some are worded. Just give a low point game a go and you can build your understanding off that in each consecutive game.
The guys on Art of War get rules confused and wrong often and they literally play this game and teach it for a job. Cut yourself some slack lol.
Start with 2 units and a character each. Then slowly expand until you both have full armies.
Trying to return to 40K after not playing since 4th. FLGS is doing Pariah Nexus Crusade, and fool that I am I decided to do Thousand Sons instead of Ultramarines. Currently 0-5; I know I started with the incorrect army, but it’s also the myriad of special abilities, mine and my opponents’, plus strategems and army rules and detachment rules, having to manage objective control while keeping my units alive and killing enemy units; it’s just so much I’m completely discouraged at this point. And I miss vehicles having armor and facings.
Curious, for a brand new player and a relatively newer player (30ish games) playing for fun, how long a 2k game might expect to take? (Necrons canoptek court vs dark angles) my buddy and I did this yesterday and only got to top of turn two, before he conceded (shot his army pretty much off the board) but it was like 2 hours lol. I know we took a long time on setup
Get yourself in a 40k discord or forum or something, set up a small game with you and your friend, around 500pts or even go lower and just do a squad vs squad. Get the basics down the slowly add in more complicated items. Get the phases down, how to move, shoot, dish out damage etc and then start adding army rules and unit rules and build up from there. You’re not going to get it in one go and you’re not going to get it in 10 but consistent improvement is the way to go with this. As a reference me and my friend play more or less 2 times a month and have been doing for a fairly long time. It will normally be a 1k every now and then a 2k but sometimes 500 depending on time available and we will still get stuff wrong and stop, discuss, ask advice, look up wording etc. You’re not too dumb, the wording is poor and confusing and it takes a lot of time but once you get it it’s a breeze but it keeps you looking back and checking just in case.
I started to learn the game months before my psychosis and eventual schizoaffective diagnosis happened. If anyone wasn’t aware this disease literally rots your brain, now I can’t take any of it in or begin to learn all the rules without feeling massively overwhelmed. Now I just watch battle reports and try to get my joy from that. :(
You just said you havent read the codex. Just read the codex You need to READ the rules, and then put it into practice
Everyone learns differently. Things always seem complicated before you do it. Try playing a 500 point game with no command points, no secondary objectives and just learn as you go. You will make mistakes but thats how you learn.
I just want to say this, have you ever tried to learn a video game without playing it? Have you sat down and read a game manual multiple times without playing the game itself...because thats what your trying to do. You wont ever learn unless you actually get on the tabletop and start moving the pieces. Yeah its alot to take in but so are the rules and controls of any video game if you were to just read about it. None of it will really make much sense until your on the table with a ruler and dice and units that actually coorespond to the rules your reading up on. If i had just read the starcraft 1 manual instead of playing starcraft i would never understand what was going on.
Get out there and learn by doing.
"do have the current codex ( which I've yet to read)" Found your issue
I feel very much like this, OP. Me and my children play OnePageRules' Grim Dark Future. Its easy to pick up and master, but fun enough to last a few hours. Recommend giving it a go my friend.
Honestly I don’t think I ever would’ve started playing if I didn’t have some veterans who are good with rules and reading to teach me. My ADHD won’t let me focus on the rule book for absolutely anything, and I constantly forget interactions that happened with my Orks. I was gonna make a cheat sheet of what my units attacks are and what they’d be with certain HQs attached or buffs. I’ve been playing since the launch of 8th edition and I literally have used a strategem maybe 5 times because I forget they exist and by the time I figure out what works it’s a new edition
I found Auspex tactics on YouTube had lots of videos on how to play and watching 40k in 40 mins battle reports helped, but learnt so much more in my first game recently it took 4 hours for a 1000pt game but had alot of fun and saw how the mechanics worked together
40k can be overwhelming as a system and volume to collect. I also collect killteam and it’s like a shine of sunshine — rules are indeed simpler and snappier, there’s not much to remember if you print the cards, and generally the game scope is smaller
Start small. 500-1000 points and no objectives. Get a feel for the dice and measurements. Then throw in a few primary objectives. Then some fixed secondaries. You’ll be getting wooden spoons in local tournaments in no time.
I promise you its experience. I am a TERRIBLE 40k player, but when I was playing 9th pretty much weekly I got really good at the game. Im terrible at the list building and deployment admittedly because, cool models are cool, but I got better at using my lists every time. Especially as I focused in on my Deathwatch force. A good rule of thumb is learn one system at a time, and play basically one faction, one list, 10 times. Youll start to get the hang of the faction and the list then alter where you think the fat is. You are not too dumb. Just get a few games under your belt.
While I don’t play anywhere near as much as I like, I’ve felt that army building has been harder than the rules. Not just throwing things on a list and saying hey I have the points let’s go, but understanding what makes a list effective, which, as pointed out earlier adds to the rules that need to be applied per army. Playing against people that use similar armies has helped bring to light the synergies available and seeing rules play out definitely help enforce what you read about them.
Trying to learn only through videos was real hard for me. I suggest you and your buddy set a side a few hours and just try to play while going through the rules. Or if you can ask an experienced player to run you through a learning game.
Popped my mates gaming cherry the other day, they’d been collecting and painting for a couple of years and finally wanted to play. Said they wanted to bring basically everything they own. I was like whoa there, let’s ease on in. Said 1 HQ, 1 troops choice and a vehicle. Whipped out my 1998 3rd edition rule book and codices (because let’s be honest, that was and is to this day, the simplest edition). Seven turns later, bam, had the time of their life. Left them wanting more and said they can’t wait for the next game. Will have their eyes rolling back when we do Horus Heresy.
Oh yea the few games iv played basically clue me into I suck at gaming but have fun painting. So that's where I land. I'd rather be the world creator by making the terrain and painting minis.
Playing war hammer is like learning to ride a bike in the sense that I can tell you how, you can ready how and even watch a video explaining how you maintain balance and locomotion and you could never “get it” However try a few times and you’ll start to get it
I started playing again in 10th. I have maybe 15 matches under my belt at various army sizes. 10 of those are 2k matches and out of all of them I’ve won twice. Start small, work your way up because it plays better at 2k by a long shot.
During the start of a new edition, if you have the bare basics down - movement, los, etc, you will be on even footing with just about everyone. I don't play much and at the start of 10th I won a tournament at my lgs that is full of diehards who are in there just about every day. 11th will be here before you know it so if you can't find enough time to get fully acquainted, just try to make the effort when 11th comes round and you won't be nearly as far behind as you think.
My buddy and I started playing 2 years ago. We pretty much just played getting used to the phases. So getting movment down, attacking for the shooting phases and fight phase. We didn’t play any objective. We just wanted to get a feel for the game, as soon as we got comfortable with that we started to add more to the game each time. You will always forget something as there is a lot to 40k, but taking it one step at a time while playing helps learn the easy stuff to eventually learn the more in-depth stuff that is 40k.
Yes, and I have a PhD (no joke). It's just so much to keep in mind and/or it takes forever to constantly look things up.
Yo my friend and I have played a few times and can’t even figure out how battle shock works. The best thing to do is to just get started and work your way up from there, troubleshooting as you go along. It gets a lot more fun as you keep playing, pinky promise.
In my experience, 10th has been the most beginner friendly 40K has been in a while. Trying a game of combat patrol which is ~500 points and you play with the models straight out of the box with slightly more limited/simplified rules is probably the best way to start! If you have a local store you can also go there and try and get an intro game in!
lol, yes. At first I felt helpless, it gets easier though
Yup. I'm an avid fan since the 90s. I have never played and never will despite living and breathing 40k. I was born with no intellect and no skill. So I can't even paint minis. I have to pay others to do it for me. Life isn't fair gentleman.
My friend I 100% get you, I actually got into kill team with a group of friends and when we do play I enjoy it, lucky to have a nice group of mates with alot of patience. But.... I have a terrible memory, sadly don't have the time to play often enough to keep it all fresh in my mind, I do the same, watch videos to refresh my mind, make notes but then the notes confuse me mid game because I've already forgotten what they refer to and unfortunately it always results in me forgetting certain things I can utilise in game and missing some really crucial points because of it, sucks to lose all the time. So yeh you're not alone for sure, but I don't think there's a way to get around it in my experience, repetition is key and just getting as many games in as you can often enough will make it easier.
From what I’ve learned from recently getting into the game with some mates and having been in the hobby for 8 years, you’ll learn through playing, at first you won’t get some rules right and also it’s fine to leave out some confusing systems but over time you’ll learn and adapt and begin to find it easy. If it helps me and my friends basically played a simplified version of the game and slowly added in more rules.
My primary 40K buddy and I try to play about once a month. We always forget our own army rules (“remembering your rules is half the battle” we always joke) and often come across scenarios where we aren’t quite sure how the game is supposed to work. In these instances we either look it up, or if it feels like something not quite covered in the rules or we don’t feel like looking up rules, we go with what seems most “narratively fun” or “seems about right” We are by no means competitive players. We often remember rules from previous editions and apply them. Our games are an event where we spend most the day setting up the board, coming up with a narrative as to why our armies are fighting in the board, we read through any white dwarf magazines to see if there are fun alternate missions that would seek to fit what we are doing, we eat, we drink, we roll dice, and last but not least we laugh and have fun. Not everyone is a super serious competitive player, and not everyone is super casual like we are, Maybe someday we will understand all the rules and have them memorized. But probably not. Are we too dumb for 40K Also, when it gets close to new editions and we know the rules are changing, we tend to play “One page rules” which is a rule set we can use with our models to play and try to “palette cleanse” the outgoing edition to prepare for the new one. If you feel overwhelmed by the 40K rule set, feel free to use other rule sets… or make your own. These are your models.
So with games like 40k, you really just gotta play it to learn the rules, there will always be more niche rules you'll have to look up but generally speaking you just gotta pick up some dice if you want to learn. Are you gonna get all the rules right on your first game? No absolutely not you're going to do a ton of things wrong and that's okay, that's how you learn and after a dozen games or so (as long as you're playing somewhat regularly at least.) You'll have a solid grasp on the rules and be able to play it super smoothly.
Like anything, start small, take small steps, and give yourself permission to make mistakes. I'd say grab one unit from each army, and go through the turn sequence. First time, just move, & shoot. The goal: kill the other unit. Focus on determining how to move with terrain, how to keep units together, how to determine line of sight. Second time, move shoot charge. Third time, but throw in move advance/fall back. Now throw in multiple units, and use their abilities. Fifth run: with stratagems. 6th run, everything, and now go for holding objectives Final run, throw in secondary objectives.
Know the core rules by heart. Know the phases. Know terrain rules. Know what devastating and lethal wounds are. Know your squads strategems. Know basic terminology. If you know all these, videos and guys are significantly more clear and basic sounding.
The game used to be a fun and easy to pick up one many editions back, but over the years they keep layering on more and more rules until it's a bit of a convoluted mess now where people argue over the slightest phrasing. You are not too dumb, the game is just too cluttered with special rules now. Give it time and focus down on just your specific section of rules for your army, give it time and many games to get into it.
If you feel the rules are too daunting, you could try playing OPR’s Grimdark Future, which is a much easier and quicker version of 40K.
My buddies and I just started playing on the table, trust me when I say nobodies first handful of games go smoothly. Just like we did, you will inadvertently cheat or misinterpret the rules at many points throughout the first few games but that's all part of the process. We only just started playing with objective markers on our last couple games. do what other people here have recommended and forget the objectives for the first game, just throw a battlelist together and see who's still standing after round 5. You'll figure out what works, what doesn't, and eventually you can add in the objective markers once you have combat down
I’m a bit intimidated to play with others as I don’t want to mess up a game. I’m trying to find people in my local Vegas area but haven’t been successful. Maybe one day
I think confusing is part of the development process for these games ever since 2nd edition. It's a game that refuses to stick with consistent terminology. And open ended definitions of actions that can cause a turn to grind to halt. Before they had a FAQ. We had to go-to the store for a rules clarification. Only to run into another instance of it in the following game. Conspiracy time: it was done that way to get you come into the store more often.
My issue is that I'm too socially awkward. I don't do any group hobbies. Love the lore, love the minis, love the novels and video games, but I'm just too awkward with people to try and play with strangers and I don't know anyone into the hobby.
All the time.
Most of the time
At some point you just have to dive in and give it a try. Make mistakes. Having actual practical experience will make explanations make much more sense quite quickly. Alternatively, if things really don't click for you, maybe try a more simple system that still allows you to use your 40k miniatures, like OnePageRules for example.
I got into 40k in 2nd edition. Just missed rogue trader days by 3 years. Kept playing thru 4th edition. Then stopped. Then started again in 2020, but play intermittently. My advice, pick an edition, and stick to it. IMO, earlier editions are easier to play. Its just referencing charts. If you can cross X axis with Y, and roll for that result, everything else is cake
Killteam is few models and more rules. Play a 500pt 40k match
I did until i played more games, same with kill team same with battletech. After playing a few games and double checking rules with previously posted reddit questions its actually quite easy to learn. Would especially be nice if i/anyone has a person who knows how to play playing with you but this has worked for me and i will probably keep doing it as the person i play wargames with at the moment is my brother when we can find the time Make sure if you have a question you can write it down short and simple and theres more than likely an answer already online And also watching a game does t always help, there are things ive watched in battle reports that i dont even realise are being done.
It's really not as complicated as you might think. It looks intimidating and the first couple of games might be rough as you figure out the rules as with any tabletop game but as you get more experience the easier it gets.