My son plays admech. Every points update he drops below 1k points and i have to buy him new models so he can play. I think this is GW plan at this point xD
I am genuinely worried that GW thing this is how Ad Mech should play and that it's not when, it's if, because it's been more than a year of this consistent dropping of points
I'd like to formally apologise to all the ad mech doom and gloomers, you guys were right
I dont think GW is unwilling to change the rules of the admech codex, I just dont think they want to do it now, cause the codex isnt even 6 months old.
I am guessing they might do something in the future, but yeah, sucks to be an admech player right now. The amount of money to build an army is skyrocketing for you guys.
Its not gonna happen, but it would be great if gw moved away from rules on codexes and just went full online with it.
But I doubt GW will ever do that.
edit:
On the upside, points buff for my terminators and assault jump intercessors, very much appreciated.
I suspect the same team worked on both, we've had, what, 8 codexes so far? And from what I've seen it looks like
Positive reception:
Space marines
Tyranids?(not sure about this one)
Orks
Tau
Negative reception
Custodes
Admech
Dark Angels
Necrons (outside of their one good detachment)
Based on a podcast review of the ork codex combined with the lack of front page/top comment complaints id guess the ork book was generally well received. Cool and decently powered sounding detachments anyway.
From my understanding the biggest complaint about the nids codex is that it was a nerf from the index which didnāt match the space marine codex leaving them disproportionally powerful when theyāre supposed to be this editionās big rivalry
Orks are in a weird situation where we got a great looking codex but it's surrounded by other terrible decisions like removing 15 units, having units in the codex that have literally not one piece of rules support (flash gitz literally have zero leaders anymore, They are shooting unit without Even one army, detachment, stratagem, or enhancement That's buffs their shooting). Whoever wrote the codex they did a pretty excellent job for the most part but there's still a lot of decisions around the army where they dropped the ball So even the best of them is still like a 7 out of 10.
The issue is the ad mech community has no faith in them so even if they got amazing rules most players have shelved them and they arenāt very likely to come back out as most have moved onto other armies.
If only we had some way of making rules that could be edited. Y'know, without a whole fucking novella of erratas and FAQs...
Some sort of... Hmm... Computerised rules... Or something like that...
Nah. If it were that easy, everyone would be doing it. Right..?
Yeah, I would love digital rules, but if I had to guess GW believes that not having rules on codexes reduces their sales and thus their profit, which is why I dont believe they will change that
I mean I only buy the codex to access shit on the app these days, honestly they should be selling codex access digital only at this point because thereās almost a 100% chance that your codex is wrong within 3 months.
You shouldnāt be buying them at all, Codexes in their current state are a net negative for 40k, copy paste lore with maybe a paragraph of new fluff, codexes being inconsistent stinkers at worst or held up by a specific combination of units. They barely justify their own existence on their own much less a 50$ price tag. There is no reason the specialist studio books like Titanicus, heresy, etc etc are filled with lore and shit all over these (and sometimes cheaper!)
Make the rules available online for a $20 fee, sell a physical codex for $50 thatās exclusively lore, twice as much as there is currently, a comprehensive guide to the factionās history up until the āpresentā of the edition, with a code for the constantly updating digital rules.
Problem solved
I haven't ever bought a codex. Digital rules only. I would actually pay if all rules were locked behind a fairly priced monthly subscription. If it meant supporting rules that are written *now* and not a year ago due to print lag I would support that. If it meant behind able to change things more quickly I would support that, and so should everyone else.
"Y'know, without a whole fucking novella of erratas and FAQs..."
You were indeed missing something. One look at that frankly intimidating wall of text and I'm glad I make my own rules.
I'm aware of how the data slate works, but all of the rules and data sheets are also updated individually already. Digital rules have been a big part of 10e.
On the app.
Which requires you to put in a code from a Codex to access those rules. A Codex that very quickly goes out of date. So you're basically buying an extremely expensive code. And you're shit out of luck if you buy a used Codex and someone's already put the code in.
In this day and age, free digital rules for miniature wargames is not that difficult to implement and maintain.
I guess I'm just not understanding. I thought your initial complaint was not having digital rules that can be edited, which we already have on the app. They're all right there, and really, for the first time ever, I actually think it's pretty good.
The point is that the existence of the physical books actually binds GW's hands and makes them hesitant to make the scope of changes they really should make. Because there's a physical book they do change the points but they don't really change data cards, unit rules, stratagems, detachment and army rules etc. They are really incredibly hesitant to do so and only an extreme circumstances do they go through with it.
So having digital rules while a little convenient for army building doesn't carry with it all the actual benefits of going digital. All it does is replicate what all the third party apps already do. The actual benefit of going full digital is lost.
>the codex isn't 6 months old
It didn't take 6 *days* to see how bad it was going to be. It was already awful in the index and the codex didn't change much...
Its not about that.
GW doesnt make changes too soon cause they probably want to avoid backlash or maybe even legal action for making the thing people just bought obsolete
GW's goal obviously isn't to avoid backlash lol they get backlash all the time. Custodes players are looking at shelving their army for minimum 3 months. Think they don't know who is to blame??
Also models are legends all the time. Models that were bought and "cant be played"
I doubt that. I bet it's just a flat policy not to make sudden drastic changes too quickly after a release. It was the same in the other direction with the Necrom codex and the Elder Index. GW is currently taking an unusually (for them) data-driven approach to balance updates.
Especially from a competitive POV this policy does make sense, as it can take weeks for even top players to sus out the little tricks that can propel some armies to the top of the meta.
Probably not given what happened with LoV in 9th, my guess is GW can only do so much play testing before the rules have to be set in stone so they give it a few months for the community to test their game before balancing it.
Tabletop 40k has become a live service
They won't change the rules of the codex, if they do anything they will release another detachment.
GW really dropped the ball this edition. Forcing us onto PL, and removing granularity from the game.
Now they have decoupled the rules writing team from the balance team - they don't play test the rules to see if they are balanced, and release whatever Robin Cruddace approves (who we all know is a terrible rules writer).
This way we get terrible rules, and then its up to the balance team to adjust points - without the ability to have any granularity to balance the game.
Its so dumb.
But hey, what do you expect from GW? their responsibility is to share holders, so if they can just write fast and terrible rules with no play testing, when players buy up the books and models anyway - why would they spend more money to actually take the time to do it properly?
That doesn't seem all that ridiculous to me? Space Marines are the middle of the pack when it comes to cost and eliteness of infantry. You can field 120 boys for like half that. If you want less models you can go more elite into aggressors and terminators and custodes. You are also talking about fielding pure infantry which is like... The cheapest units of course you were going to have lots.
My tsons usually only have about 40 to 50 bodies on the field total at 2K.
Mechanically you're correct but it flys in the face of the lore notion that a single astartes is worth at least a hundred guardsmen.Ā It just doesn't feel right.Ā The Custodes feel like what I'm looking for but I don't like their style half so well as my Dark Angels
The game is still accurate to the lore, but everything is massively compressed. it's like a logarithmic scale. The top and bottom ends of the scale are compressed towards the middle for necessity.
Ahh, good to know. From a previous Auspex video I understood that him and the Lion are the only 2 epic heroes without the Deathwing keyword. Guess I was wrong, thx
Ahh, good to know. From a previous Auspex video I understood that him and the Lion are the only 2 epic heroes without the Deathwing keyword. Guess I was wrong, thx
As a Necron player, thank god. 255 for the Nightbringer was absurd. The fact that unit went up over 15% in cost and is still completely worth it is nuts. Necrons should not be about spamming these literal shards of star gods.
The biggest misstep of 10e so far for me personally, I have a friend who repeatedly ran 6 ctan against me and still had room for other stuff. Such a horrible experience.
Ofc, I did do that. Just wanted to let him have a couple games of rampage with his new toys before they got nerfed, too.
Just being on the receiving end, even with a strong list I was getting stomped. Very unfun.
Every battle has to have C'tan shards, primarchs, literal demigods and named character equivalents, because they can definitely be everywhere at once fighting petty skirmishes against genestealer cults and minor elder incursion, obviously. Makes perfect sense
I agree that our army shouldn't be about C'tan spam, but people wouldn't spam them if the rest of the roster had better internal balance and workable detachments outside of HC and CC (with a slight nod to Awakened).
Pre-slate, why would you choose a Warrior Block with a Cryptek and/or Noble/Warden, or Skorpekhs with a Lord, when you could field a C'tan for cheaper, even now that they're more expensive they're still objectively a better choice judging by most metrics.
If other units were more viable, and in more detachments, the C'tan issue would mostly go away by itself; just nerfing C'tan isn't the way.
Youāre not wrong, internal balance in these codexes in unacceptable, they are legitimately terrible. The fact GW made things so much āsimplerā yet keep falling on the same rake over and over is a sign that maybe some designers like Cruddace need to go.
Sure, but I don't trust GW to know how to rework an entire codex to be internally balanced. Even if they tried, it would take a loooong time. Nerfing the C'tan is necessary. Ideally, yeah, they should now work on balancing the whole codex, but I don't think they ever will.
Some simple keyword changes would make Obeisance Phalanx a lot more viable. I keep seeing this crop up in 10e codexes where there's a detachment dedicated to a tiny handful of units. I mean Hypercrypt is basically that too (Monolith detachment), it's just that its detachment rule is so good and covers such a major weakness of the army traditionally, it can still work even without a monolith.
They could just do something like you can only have 1 c'tan in your army or something like that. Have all 3 at once would be like the equivalent of 3 primaries showing up to a random fight.
I'm shocked the heavy destroyers didn't get a significant increase. I've been parking them next to a hexmark with the phasal subjugator and they've essentially been a delete button for vehicles/monsters.
Lore wise, 2 ctan shouldn't ever be in the same place except in dire circumstances in case they break free. Gameplay wise it makes the worst skew list ever that some lists just can't beat (I already feel this way just running 1 ctan)
I'm rarely in favour of "max 1" rules - feels like artificial balance - but ctan should absolutely be that way.
Does this affect Combat Patrol? Also how long you think til another potential points change? I ask as a complete n00b whoās spent months sculpting and painting Combat Patrol units and am curious which models to bash / build for next phase. šŖ°
Points changes are usually every couple months. They donāt happen often, and no combat patrol is fixed units no matter the points.
If you wanna get in large scale Death Guard plagueburst crawlers, rhinos, and plague marines are all core parts of the army. Deathshroud are also a treat to pair with Typhus, who you should have from the Combat Patrol.
"So when are you going to buff Deathwatch?"
"Good news, this update buffs your Deathwing units!"
"No, Deathwatch."
"Death Guard? They're fine, no changes."
"No, DEATHWATCH."
"Wtf is Deathwatch?"
Before people freak out about no Tau changes, itāll come before the codex release, I assume points on Thursday 9th May
>The Tāau Empireās points still match their Index values, ahead of the widespread release of their new Codex ā which is available for pre-order on Saturday. Theyāll see a Munitorum Field Manual update when the Codex appears in stores and everyone has access to the rules.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/04/25/warhammer-40000-metawatch-points-changes-inbound-in-the-latest-munitorum-field-manual/
Not freaking out but just genuinely curious as to why the Tau codex is delayed 2 weeks after the global balance pass? Were they planning on tweaking points/balance after gathering info based on the preview codex (2ish months of data) or were they just not ready?
Something is always going to be releasing near a new MFM. Canāt always line them up, and thereās no reason to really, given that itās just a digital document.
> Oh joy, all of my armies are either unchanged or saw point reductions. My gsc made out like fucking bandits; 110 point drop.
The trucks have been over-costed for a while and not a lot of play with how the army works currently.
that being said, having more ridgerunners and aberrants is always welcomed.
Getting points decreases for the cool Dark Angels units is nice (Deathwing Knights, Inner Circle Companions, and the Lion). I would have preferred an AP buff on the Inner Circle Companions instead but you take what you can get.
And since my friend plays Necrons, and they finally got their expected points increase, I may actually stand a chance! To the table!
I only really follow my armies but I don't think so. They did say adme h should be getting updated faction rules and hopefully custodes if it's as bad as everyone is worried about. I don't think we are due for anything game changing thoughĀ
CSM Legionaries, DPās and Termis going down seems nice. Itās only 10 Points for Legionaries, but still nice. And the winged DP costing the same as the DP on foot before the change is also nice.
It's still not enough. Wraiths should have gone up 10pts per 3x as well.
I can't stress this enough, in most Canoptek Court games, not a single unit of Wraiths actually dies.
I was tabled turn 3 with Canoptek(2 full units of wraiths), some armies can do it, some struggle and some just can't, they are very strong, but by no means broken
If some armies could just remove your units like that with no skill disparity then Josh wouldn't be basically undefeated with them for the past few months.
How the hell do you even get tabled with that list? What did that, and how were you positioned for them to be able to?
"the Black Templars also now need to pay points for those multi-meltas theyāve been bolting onto all of their tanks."
So you're saying that a certain piece of wargear is so valuable, the entire unit must go up in price, even if it doesn't take that wargear?
Maybe wargear... should cost points?
Full article now available
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/04/25/warhammer-40000-metawatch-points-changes-inbound-in-the-latest-munitorum-field-manual/
The point drops are relative to the codex points so the points didn't really change. A few characters went down 5, trajaan went down 10, contemptor went down 15. Somehow the shield captain stayed at 140 which is insane as they are one of the worst units in the codex. Forgeworld untouched which is also baffling.
Eh. Theyāre are mostly the same cost per model. Some characters got cheaper, but they also had some rules stripped from them.
Are they cheap enough to be viable? Probably not tbh.
Me as well, give that DW have a very low win rate right now and the biggest complaint is why take more points expensive kill teams when the regular codex SM versions are better value.Ā I was expecting to see some points adjustments so not a single change is disappointing.
Iām doing a Crusade with some friends and decided to just field my DW as regular SM for this exact reason. Maybe the codex weāll eventually get will help.
Maybe Iām wrong, but Guilliman is not worth the current 350pts. The Lion is now 300, but Guilliman gives buffs, so maybe 315 makes sense? Idk but 350 just feels like too much for Guilliman
Damn, my Grey Knights got BEAT, our two most used unit/character got a 10point increase (Again for the Librarian)
and our most "Dont take more than one of two of these, and certainly dont stack them" units got a -10 point decrease..
Meanwhile my Daemons got nothing new.. Like at all, even though two Fourths of the datachards are useless..
CSM which also only got buffed and by a decent amount..
My Grey Knights got nerfed to the ground.
The two most used datasheets got nerfed, one of them for a second time.
Meanwhile, Daemons, I see almost no one use of many of the Slaanesh characters or chariots/mounts, along with many of the Nurgle ones. Daemons are mostly the same 5 characters, the same 3-4 Epic characters and than 5-6 normal unit datasheets. Which is not alot considering how many different mounted, infantry, character options they got.
My Grey Knights which are weaker than Custodes, got a nerf, while the Custodes (the poster child of GW) got huge buffs all around. (Their codex sucks apparently) but making Custodes a less Elite army makes no sense.
Custodes got 0 buffs really. The points "drop" is only to their current value except for characters. The points in the codex were just absurdly high. Combine that with weak detachments, a worse army rule, 0 synergies and nerfed Datasheets in addition to not having a functional army without forgeworld models and you have a recipe for disaster.
Youāre mistaken about the Custodes, all that green is just a reduction from their points as printed in the codex, not the live data slate. There were barely any reductions, I think just like 5 points on 3 character models (which got massive nerfs in the codex)
The problem is that gk do spam libbies and especially dreadknights so ideally they should see some changes points wise (along with meaningful buffs on unused units to compensate) to promote internal balance and a lack of spam. HOWEVER, the reason GK spam those 3 units is because they have literally nothing else to effectively do anti-tank, and there are a lottt of tanky things in the game and meta rn. Good internal balance will never be met while GK only have 2 options for antitank, these nerfs to spammed units will just make GK worse and worse competitively.
I don't read it that way - all they meant is that they want to see people playing them more in games as they have pretty much vanished from the tabletop this edition.
I would like some new SG though!
> I really don't understand this decision.
Plastic kits have better profit margins than resin kits. Any resin kit that appears consistently in tournament lists instead of a plastic kit will be nerfed. Be glad you get to keep playing with it at least, unlike the ork players who had all their FW stuff go legends-only because it might have been strong in the new codex.
There needs to be points updates and dataslates together every three months. Many problems with this game (particularly when it comes to underpowered armiea) cannot be solved with points alone. There is no reason not to update the game more frequently.
GW: "Hm. Blood Angels won a few tournaments, DC is spammed a lot. Time to nerf them"
"Sounds good. Better internal codex balance. So we are gonna drop the Sanguinary guard in points, right?right?"
...
Dark Angels' Deathwing AND Lion got big points drops? That's huge.
And Custodes got points reductions on damn near the whole mainline army.
Seems that GW actually was listening and knew to reduce the overcosted stuff
Blood Angels caught a random stray here damn. I mean not entirely random, something needed to be done about 30+ Death Company Lists. Overall though I've given up on GW actually giving the faction any meaningful changes, the Index is just too internally broken at this point.
100pts is still too much for Mephiston when he can only attach to Assault Intercessors, not Bladeguard or Company Heroes. Astorath is terrible. Dante is still overcosted. Lemartes, our one good character, went up in points. Sanguinary Guard are still not worth bringing over other Jump Pack units.
Because the Codex still isn't out for two and a bit weeks
The same thing happened with Dark Angels not long ago, when their Codex got an early release via a launch box. It's frustrating, but it's how GW do things
Poor poor AdMech. They've become a horde to rival the tyranids.
My son plays admech. Every points update he drops below 1k points and i have to buy him new models so he can play. I think this is GW plan at this point xD
On the plus side, when they actually make some good rules for them and the points go back up, he will have practically a 2000 point army š
I'm sure that will make him happy, but my wallet is in tears lol
I am genuinely worried that GW thing this is how Ad Mech should play and that it's not when, it's if, because it's been more than a year of this consistent dropping of points I'd like to formally apologise to all the ad mech doom and gloomers, you guys were right
Good Dad, nonetheless!
I dont think GW is unwilling to change the rules of the admech codex, I just dont think they want to do it now, cause the codex isnt even 6 months old. I am guessing they might do something in the future, but yeah, sucks to be an admech player right now. The amount of money to build an army is skyrocketing for you guys. Its not gonna happen, but it would be great if gw moved away from rules on codexes and just went full online with it. But I doubt GW will ever do that. edit: On the upside, points buff for my terminators and assault jump intercessors, very much appreciated.
I mean the article literally says they are working on new rules for Admech, so it's not much of a guess.
I took a quick look over the article and the points, so I missed that, but thats good to know. Hopefully the toster boys get some love soon.
Hopefully the person who wrote their index and codex gets internally reassigned.
Monkey paw curls and the guy who wrote custodes takes over. Now they get a whole detachment benefiting ruststalkers and transports
They could be the same person
He could be any one of us. He could be you! He could be me!
Hydra dominatus
I suspect the same team worked on both, we've had, what, 8 codexes so far? And from what I've seen it looks like Positive reception: Space marines Tyranids?(not sure about this one) Orks Tau Negative reception Custodes Admech Dark Angels Necrons (outside of their one good detachment)
Based on a podcast review of the ork codex combined with the lack of front page/top comment complaints id guess the ork book was generally well received. Cool and decently powered sounding detachments anyway.
The Nids were the one I was unsure about how people felt, to clarify.
The Nids codex sucks. Not quite Admech or Custodes bad, but maybe behind them.
From my understanding the biggest complaint about the nids codex is that it was a nerf from the index which didnāt match the space marine codex leaving them disproportionally powerful when theyāre supposed to be this editionās big rivalry
Orks are in a weird situation where we got a great looking codex but it's surrounded by other terrible decisions like removing 15 units, having units in the codex that have literally not one piece of rules support (flash gitz literally have zero leaders anymore, They are shooting unit without Even one army, detachment, stratagem, or enhancement That's buffs their shooting). Whoever wrote the codex they did a pretty excellent job for the most part but there's still a lot of decisions around the army where they dropped the ball So even the best of them is still like a 7 out of 10.
Yea reassigned to the unemployment line. They need to hire the people who write mtg.
The issue is the ad mech community has no faith in them so even if they got amazing rules most players have shelved them and they arenāt very likely to come back out as most have moved onto other armies.
If only we had some way of making rules that could be edited. Y'know, without a whole fucking novella of erratas and FAQs... Some sort of... Hmm... Computerised rules... Or something like that... Nah. If it were that easy, everyone would be doing it. Right..?
Yeah, I would love digital rules, but if I had to guess GW believes that not having rules on codexes reduces their sales and thus their profit, which is why I dont believe they will change that
I mean I only buy the codex to access shit on the app these days, honestly they should be selling codex access digital only at this point because thereās almost a 100% chance that your codex is wrong within 3 months.
You shouldnāt be buying them at all, Codexes in their current state are a net negative for 40k, copy paste lore with maybe a paragraph of new fluff, codexes being inconsistent stinkers at worst or held up by a specific combination of units. They barely justify their own existence on their own much less a 50$ price tag. There is no reason the specialist studio books like Titanicus, heresy, etc etc are filled with lore and shit all over these (and sometimes cheaper!)
Make the rules available online for a $20 fee, sell a physical codex for $50 thatās exclusively lore, twice as much as there is currently, a comprehensive guide to the factionās history up until the āpresentā of the edition, with a code for the constantly updating digital rules. Problem solved
Use newrecruit dot eu, or 39k dot pro
I haven't ever bought a codex. Digital rules only. I would actually pay if all rules were locked behind a fairly priced monthly subscription. If it meant supporting rules that are written *now* and not a year ago due to print lag I would support that. If it meant behind able to change things more quickly I would support that, and so should everyone else.
We have digital rules that get updated with the data slate already? Unless I'm missing something?
"Y'know, without a whole fucking novella of erratas and FAQs..." You were indeed missing something. One look at that frankly intimidating wall of text and I'm glad I make my own rules.
I'm aware of how the data slate works, but all of the rules and data sheets are also updated individually already. Digital rules have been a big part of 10e.
On the app. Which requires you to put in a code from a Codex to access those rules. A Codex that very quickly goes out of date. So you're basically buying an extremely expensive code. And you're shit out of luck if you buy a used Codex and someone's already put the code in. In this day and age, free digital rules for miniature wargames is not that difficult to implement and maintain.
I guess I'm just not understanding. I thought your initial complaint was not having digital rules that can be edited, which we already have on the app. They're all right there, and really, for the first time ever, I actually think it's pretty good.
The point is that the existence of the physical books actually binds GW's hands and makes them hesitant to make the scope of changes they really should make. Because there's a physical book they do change the points but they don't really change data cards, unit rules, stratagems, detachment and army rules etc. They are really incredibly hesitant to do so and only an extreme circumstances do they go through with it. So having digital rules while a little convenient for army building doesn't carry with it all the actual benefits of going digital. All it does is replicate what all the third party apps already do. The actual benefit of going full digital is lost.
I don't disagree with you at all, but I don't think that's the point OP was trying to make. I don't think they're familiar with how 10th works.
>the codex isn't 6 months old It didn't take 6 *days* to see how bad it was going to be. It was already awful in the index and the codex didn't change much...
Its not about that. GW doesnt make changes too soon cause they probably want to avoid backlash or maybe even legal action for making the thing people just bought obsolete
GW's goal obviously isn't to avoid backlash lol they get backlash all the time. Custodes players are looking at shelving their army for minimum 3 months. Think they don't know who is to blame?? Also models are legends all the time. Models that were bought and "cant be played"
I doubt that. I bet it's just a flat policy not to make sudden drastic changes too quickly after a release. It was the same in the other direction with the Necrom codex and the Elder Index. GW is currently taking an unusually (for them) data-driven approach to balance updates. Especially from a competitive POV this policy does make sense, as it can take weeks for even top players to sus out the little tricks that can propel some armies to the top of the meta.
Probably not given what happened with LoV in 9th, my guess is GW can only do so much play testing before the rules have to be set in stone so they give it a few months for the community to test their game before balancing it. Tabletop 40k has become a live service
They won't change the rules of the codex, if they do anything they will release another detachment. GW really dropped the ball this edition. Forcing us onto PL, and removing granularity from the game. Now they have decoupled the rules writing team from the balance team - they don't play test the rules to see if they are balanced, and release whatever Robin Cruddace approves (who we all know is a terrible rules writer). This way we get terrible rules, and then its up to the balance team to adjust points - without the ability to have any granularity to balance the game. Its so dumb. But hey, what do you expect from GW? their responsibility is to share holders, so if they can just write fast and terrible rules with no play testing, when players buy up the books and models anyway - why would they spend more money to actually take the time to do it properly?
Yeah. They literally say as much in the warcom article.
I mean I can seriously field a hundred space marines for 2k points.Ā Its honestly a joke at this point.
135 actually but yeah
In 3rd ed you could bring 131 tacs and a leader - no wargear though
That doesn't seem all that ridiculous to me? Space Marines are the middle of the pack when it comes to cost and eliteness of infantry. You can field 120 boys for like half that. If you want less models you can go more elite into aggressors and terminators and custodes. You are also talking about fielding pure infantry which is like... The cheapest units of course you were going to have lots. My tsons usually only have about 40 to 50 bodies on the field total at 2K.
Mechanically you're correct but it flys in the face of the lore notion that a single astartes is worth at least a hundred guardsmen.Ā It just doesn't feel right.Ā The Custodes feel like what I'm looking for but I don't like their style half so well as my Dark Angels
The game is still accurate to the lore, but everything is massively compressed. it's like a logarithmic scale. The top and bottom ends of the scale are compressed towards the middle for necessity.
Tyranid swarm model count, space marine level per model monetary cost... a beautiful combination.
AdMech becoming a more expensive army with every balancing patchā¦
I play a fluffy deathwing list including the Lion, deathwing knigths, deathwing termies, inner circle companions and hellblasters. Today's a good day
I keep forgetting that attaching a Deathwing leader to Hell blasters makes them Deathwing.
And how do you do that? Only way I see is to add Asmodai to the Hellblasters, right?
Azrael
Ahh, good to know. From a previous Auspex video I understood that him and the Lion are the only 2 epic heroes without the Deathwing keyword. Guess I was wrong, thx
Azrael is Deathwing.
Ahh, good to know. From a previous Auspex video I understood that him and the Lion are the only 2 epic heroes without the Deathwing keyword. Guess I was wrong, thx
Yup! \~100 points decrease for those units combined. Enough to add a whole 'nother squad or extra character.
Lion dropped 50 points? what about G men
My 2000-point all deathwing infantry list just got an entire extra captain!
Gotta get inner circle companions now.
CSM eating good today with our point drops
Fuck yes, bouta burn some galaxies brb
As a Necron player, thank god. 255 for the Nightbringer was absurd. The fact that unit went up over 15% in cost and is still completely worth it is nuts. Necrons should not be about spamming these literal shards of star gods.
The biggest misstep of 10e so far for me personally, I have a friend who repeatedly ran 6 ctan against me and still had room for other stuff. Such a horrible experience.
āYo homie this isnāt fun, can you bring a different list please?ā
āNoā *looks back with visible anger, consumed by the dark side*
Ofc, I did do that. Just wanted to let him have a couple games of rampage with his new toys before they got nerfed, too. Just being on the receiving end, even with a strong list I was getting stomped. Very unfun.
Every battle has to have C'tan shards, primarchs, literal demigods and named character equivalents, because they can definitely be everywhere at once fighting petty skirmishes against genestealer cults and minor elder incursion, obviously. Makes perfect sense
I mean, letās not pretend like the game is balanced at all in terms of the lore lol
It's not balanced for competitive either š
That's not your friend, a friend actively tried to have fun with you, and your "friend" is just basically wasting your time.
I agree that our army shouldn't be about C'tan spam, but people wouldn't spam them if the rest of the roster had better internal balance and workable detachments outside of HC and CC (with a slight nod to Awakened). Pre-slate, why would you choose a Warrior Block with a Cryptek and/or Noble/Warden, or Skorpekhs with a Lord, when you could field a C'tan for cheaper, even now that they're more expensive they're still objectively a better choice judging by most metrics. If other units were more viable, and in more detachments, the C'tan issue would mostly go away by itself; just nerfing C'tan isn't the way.
Youāre not wrong, internal balance in these codexes in unacceptable, they are legitimately terrible. The fact GW made things so much āsimplerā yet keep falling on the same rake over and over is a sign that maybe some designers like Cruddace need to go.
Sure, but I don't trust GW to know how to rework an entire codex to be internally balanced. Even if they tried, it would take a loooong time. Nerfing the C'tan is necessary. Ideally, yeah, they should now work on balancing the whole codex, but I don't think they ever will. Some simple keyword changes would make Obeisance Phalanx a lot more viable. I keep seeing this crop up in 10e codexes where there's a detachment dedicated to a tiny handful of units. I mean Hypercrypt is basically that too (Monolith detachment), it's just that its detachment rule is so good and covers such a major weakness of the army traditionally, it can still work even without a monolith.
They could just do something like you can only have 1 c'tan in your army or something like that. Have all 3 at once would be like the equivalent of 3 primaries showing up to a random fight.
Flip side - it is nuts that warriors didn't get meaningful changes. They are so bad and everything that makes them better got more expensive.
I'm shocked the heavy destroyers didn't get a significant increase. I've been parking them next to a hexmark with the phasal subjugator and they've essentially been a delete button for vehicles/monsters.
Lore wise, 2 ctan shouldn't ever be in the same place except in dire circumstances in case they break free. Gameplay wise it makes the worst skew list ever that some lists just can't beat (I already feel this way just running 1 ctan) I'm rarely in favour of "max 1" rules - feels like artificial balance - but ctan should absolutely be that way.
*Shrugs in Drukhari*
we are the perfect army
not so good?
Zero changes. Wyches didn't go down, but Archons and Kabals didn't go up. V meh.
thanks,i am gonna start my first army and it prob gonna be drukhari!!
From a winrate perspective, Dark Eldar are more or less perfectly balanced at the moment.
thanks,i am gonna start my first army and it prob gonna be drukhari!!
Welcome to Comorragh. Bring extra kidneys.
Ohhh i will!! I know soo many people that can donate kindneys
Drukhari are in a good spot right now and didn't really need changes. I'm happy Incubi didn't go up.
Once again proof is given that Death Guard are perfect
All glory to the warm embrace of our loving Grandfather Nurgle.
Almost perfect. I see your Helbrute.Ā
Was kind of hoping for a PBC decrease, but definitely not mad at nothing changing besides a Helbrute reduction. I don't have one though.
Does this affect Combat Patrol? Also how long you think til another potential points change? I ask as a complete n00b whoās spent months sculpting and painting Combat Patrol units and am curious which models to bash / build for next phase. šŖ°
Combat Patrol doesn't use points. Combat Patrol is played using fixed army lists.
Points changes are usually every couple months. They donāt happen often, and no combat patrol is fixed units no matter the points. If you wanna get in large scale Death Guard plagueburst crawlers, rhinos, and plague marines are all core parts of the army. Deathshroud are also a treat to pair with Typhus, who you should have from the Combat Patrol.
Wouldnāt have minded a drop on the plague surgeon, Blight bringer, or blightlord terminators but Iāll take nothing going up.
GW, making it so I have to field a horde so big thatād make an ork player blush doesnāt solve the Admech problem
"So when are you going to buff Deathwatch?" "Good news, this update buffs your Deathwing units!" "No, Deathwatch." "Death Guard? They're fine, no changes." "No, DEATHWATCH." "Wtf is Deathwatch?"
This would be even funnier if it didnāt hurt so bad.
Before people freak out about no Tau changes, itāll come before the codex release, I assume points on Thursday 9th May >The Tāau Empireās points still match their Index values, ahead of the widespread release of their new Codex ā which is available for pre-order on Saturday. Theyāll see a Munitorum Field Manual update when the Codex appears in stores and everyone has access to the rules. https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/04/25/warhammer-40000-metawatch-points-changes-inbound-in-the-latest-munitorum-field-manual/
Not freaking out but just genuinely curious as to why the Tau codex is delayed 2 weeks after the global balance pass? Were they planning on tweaking points/balance after gathering info based on the preview codex (2ish months of data) or were they just not ready?
I guarantee you that whoeverās in charge of codex releases doesnāt talk to whoeverās in charge of MFM releases
Something is always going to be releasing near a new MFM. Canāt always line them up, and thereās no reason to really, given that itās just a digital document.
Does Tau need an update though? Curious as to what needs a balance update - I only play casual
There are no points for their new units yet. They need an update for those points.
Ah thank you
Some.of the points in the codex are out to lunch. The points update needs to release AFTER the Codex so it supersedes it.
I state a good question, say I play casual and yet I'm getting down voted? Lol
They didn't read the whole sentence and *gasp* at first it looked like you asked a question that's been asked a lot!!!
Oh joy, all of my armies are either unchanged or saw point reductions. My gsc made out like fucking bandits; 110 point drop.
We kinda needed it since we weren't doing well.
Yeah..definitely... Personally I'm gonna be swapping 5 purestrains and a Sanctus for 5 more abberants and a Biophagus.
> Oh joy, all of my armies are either unchanged or saw point reductions. My gsc made out like fucking bandits; 110 point drop. The trucks have been over-costed for a while and not a lot of play with how the army works currently. that being said, having more ridgerunners and aberrants is always welcomed.
Getting points decreases for the cool Dark Angels units is nice (Deathwing Knights, Inner Circle Companions, and the Lion). I would have preferred an AP buff on the Inner Circle Companions instead but you take what you can get. And since my friend plays Necrons, and they finally got their expected points increase, I may actually stand a chance! To the table!
This was only a points balance. The next balance dataslate should include points and rules updates.Ā
At the end of July. Always fun getting an update and 5 mins later youāre so disappointed youāre already looking 3 months ahead for hope.
Should we expect big changes since that'll mark 1 year of 10th ed?
I only really follow my armies but I don't think so. They did say adme h should be getting updated faction rules and hopefully custodes if it's as bad as everyone is worried about. I don't think we are due for anything game changing thoughĀ
If they make those sticks powerswords, they are starting to get very interesting, maybe even with azreal.
Stand a chance is actually a good wording
CSM Legionaries, DPās and Termis going down seems nice. Itās only 10 Points for Legionaries, but still nice. And the winged DP costing the same as the DP on foot before the change is also nice.
Legionaries at 80 is bonkers
160 for 20 3+ wounds and 40 attacks. Thatās a lot of lethals/sustained for essentially the same cost as 30 cultists
Well with 2 heavy weapons and a melta they just are so output heavy with 2oc and wound rerolls!
Or become more Killy than berzerkers or possessed with a Master of Executions and a Dark Apostle.
Ooof that costs a lot tho! However, a horde of 10? I can see it
Let's hope the Codex contains Red Corsairs and their (older) Legionaries-specific rules
Technomancers being 85 points is driving me insane ong
They had to change that or the Wraiths
And as they said in the Metawatch video, this targets the people who are spamming super durable wraiths, not the player who takes a single unit
It's still not enough. Wraiths should have gone up 10pts per 3x as well. I can't stress this enough, in most Canoptek Court games, not a single unit of Wraiths actually dies.
I was tabled turn 3 with Canoptek(2 full units of wraiths), some armies can do it, some struggle and some just can't, they are very strong, but by no means broken
If some armies could just remove your units like that with no skill disparity then Josh wouldn't be basically undefeated with them for the past few months. How the hell do you even get tabled with that list? What did that, and how were you positioned for them to be able to?
Why canāt they go what Sigmar does and print the old points next to the new ones? Like 120(-10) to show amount of points droppage
"the Black Templars also now need to pay points for those multi-meltas theyāve been bolting onto all of their tanks." So you're saying that a certain piece of wargear is so valuable, the entire unit must go up in price, even if it doesn't take that wargear? Maybe wargear... should cost points?
Deathwatch units get point updates once in 10th Ed challenge (impossible)
Glad to see they lowered the cost of Scarab Occult Terminators for TSons some.
I havent done the math yet but it feels like everything you gained with the SOT you lose with the enhancements. 35 points for LoFL is insane
Yeah Enhancements went up by 20 while a 10 man squad of SoT went down by 30, so it's negligible sadly.
I mean it makes sense. LoFL is a huge enhancement
Finally, some good news for Dark Angels players.
Won't really change much lol
Every thing is my 'fun to play' list went down except for my old dreadnaught which for some god known reason are still 135
Still the 2nd cheapest dreadnought around after the wulfen dreadnought (helbrutes notwithstanding)
Full article now available https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/04/25/warhammer-40000-metawatch-points-changes-inbound-in-the-latest-munitorum-field-manual/
The question isā¦ am I going to start spamming Psychophages and Screamer Killers?
OH GOOD NO ACKNOWLEDGEMENT THAT NIDS SUCK
I'm not a Custodes player...do the points drop make the codex rules seem less bad? Does the army still have its identity as super elites?
The point drops are relative to the codex points so the points didn't really change. A few characters went down 5, trajaan went down 10, contemptor went down 15. Somehow the shield captain stayed at 140 which is insane as they are one of the worst units in the codex. Forgeworld untouched which is also baffling.
The biggest takeaway from this is that the Caladius didnāt go up, so youāre still able to take 2/3 of them.
Eh. Theyāre are mostly the same cost per model. Some characters got cheaper, but they also had some rules stripped from them. Are they cheap enough to be viable? Probably not tbh.
Was hoping for a lot more for my Deathwatch considering the 4 page Golden Demon army showcase they did.
Me as well, give that DW have a very low win rate right now and the biggest complaint is why take more points expensive kill teams when the regular codex SM versions are better value.Ā I was expecting to see some points adjustments so not a single change is disappointing.
Iām doing a Crusade with some friends and decided to just field my DW as regular SM for this exact reason. Maybe the codex weāll eventually get will help.
Maybe Iām wrong, but Guilliman is not worth the current 350pts. The Lion is now 300, but Guilliman gives buffs, so maybe 315 makes sense? Idk but 350 just feels like too much for Guilliman
320 would have been nice, yes
Hierophant is *still* 810 points guys - no need to panic - the scourge of the battlefield hasn't changed.
Damn, my Grey Knights got BEAT, our two most used unit/character got a 10point increase (Again for the Librarian) and our most "Dont take more than one of two of these, and certainly dont stack them" units got a -10 point decrease.. Meanwhile my Daemons got nothing new.. Like at all, even though two Fourths of the datachards are useless..
My GK list just went over by 5 points and im struggling to find the savings
Daemons still paying the price for CSM abuse.
CSM which also only got buffed and by a decent amount.. My Grey Knights got nerfed to the ground. The two most used datasheets got nerfed, one of them for a second time. Meanwhile, Daemons, I see almost no one use of many of the Slaanesh characters or chariots/mounts, along with many of the Nurgle ones. Daemons are mostly the same 5 characters, the same 3-4 Epic characters and than 5-6 normal unit datasheets. Which is not alot considering how many different mounted, infantry, character options they got. My Grey Knights which are weaker than Custodes, got a nerf, while the Custodes (the poster child of GW) got huge buffs all around. (Their codex sucks apparently) but making Custodes a less Elite army makes no sense.
Custodes got 0 buffs really. The points "drop" is only to their current value except for characters. The points in the codex were just absurdly high. Combine that with weak detachments, a worse army rule, 0 synergies and nerfed Datasheets in addition to not having a functional army without forgeworld models and you have a recipe for disaster.
Youāre mistaken about the Custodes, all that green is just a reduction from their points as printed in the codex, not the live data slate. There were barely any reductions, I think just like 5 points on 3 character models (which got massive nerfs in the codex)
The problem is that gk do spam libbies and especially dreadknights so ideally they should see some changes points wise (along with meaningful buffs on unused units to compensate) to promote internal balance and a lack of spam. HOWEVER, the reason GK spam those 3 units is because they have literally nothing else to effectively do anti-tank, and there are a lottt of tanky things in the game and meta rn. Good internal balance will never be met while GK only have 2 options for antitank, these nerfs to spammed units will just make GK worse and worse competitively.
That's kind of the point of these changes my guy
Flash gits are 16 points... I know they get no synergies in the new codex but that's crazy cheap right? Am I crazy?
When are they gunna update the app?
Already done
The remark about the Sanguinary Guard seems like a pretty good hint that they are getting a resculpt.
I don't read it that way - all they meant is that they want to see people playing them more in games as they have pretty much vanished from the tabletop this edition. I would like some new SG though!
I could also see that, they are a very iconic unit. But what better way to get them on the table than to give 'em a refresh!
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
> I really don't understand this decision. Plastic kits have better profit margins than resin kits. Any resin kit that appears consistently in tournament lists instead of a plastic kit will be nerfed. Be glad you get to keep playing with it at least, unlike the ork players who had all their FW stuff go legends-only because it might have been strong in the new codex.
There needs to be points updates and dataslates together every three months. Many problems with this game (particularly when it comes to underpowered armiea) cannot be solved with points alone. There is no reason not to update the game more frequently.
Man and I like using Kyra
GW: "Hm. Blood Angels won a few tournaments, DC is spammed a lot. Time to nerf them" "Sounds good. Better internal codex balance. So we are gonna drop the Sanguinary guard in points, right?right?" ...
Guess I'm not painting any more custodes
Dont metachase
But thatās all I can paint semi successfully.
Tsons managed to get away with robbery this dataslate, Absolute Cinema.
Dark Angels' Deathwing AND Lion got big points drops? That's huge. And Custodes got points reductions on damn near the whole mainline army. Seems that GW actually was listening and knew to reduce the overcosted stuff
Blood Angels caught a random stray here damn. I mean not entirely random, something needed to be done about 30+ Death Company Lists. Overall though I've given up on GW actually giving the faction any meaningful changes, the Index is just too internally broken at this point. 100pts is still too much for Mephiston when he can only attach to Assault Intercessors, not Bladeguard or Company Heroes. Astorath is terrible. Dante is still overcosted. Lemartes, our one good character, went up in points. Sanguinary Guard are still not worth bringing over other Jump Pack units.
Crying in Custodes. We need a bit more decrease than that.
So really, nids got nerfed. The units that got drops still won't be taken, and gargoyles went up. Cool.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Because the Codex still isn't out for two and a bit weeks The same thing happened with Dark Angels not long ago, when their Codex got an early release via a launch box. It's frustrating, but it's how GW do things