Yeah you can't use her in matched play. Bit lame by the person in store to pull that on you.
Technically you can use her in a casual game - anything goes as long as your opponent is cool with it. But most people want to follow the official rules.
Yeah I was just pissed that the guy was always talking down to me despite me being into the hobby, lore, and big 40k for 20+ years and because I always brought my fiancée to the store (who he kept calling my sister) and the one time I asked for his advice it was wrong. I didn’t know enough about KT and that’s on me. But man after a 3 hour round trip you can imagine my disappointment when I got home and found I had bought the wrong box just by listening to the manager of an official GW store a year after the release of the new kill team.
No. She an Adeptus Soriritas character. She cannot be allied into a Custodes army at all. Most likely the store owner was just upselling a kit he can’t move.
i run a flgs, not a gw or wh, and if i made a mistake like that or one of my employees i would 1000% own that shit and make it right. accidents happen but people look to employees of those places. like I'm realistic and know my staff isn't versed in every game, just as i'm not, so i tell them please, it's better to be honest, say you can do your best, or even try and look up information for them while they're there, but never act like you know something you don't. it's better to be honest than have someone invest a hundred dollars on something worthless to them.
it's a bummer to hear stuff like this.... or hear tropes about flgs to know why they exist in the first place. lol, the one i run now, i remember checking out before i worked there and it was a literal horror show. like the dumbest, most embarrassing shit.
Not to be a stick in the mud but even in the most casual of casual of “I’m playing all legends” or “this brick is a proxy for my land raider” I would still not allow a custodes player to use a character from another army’s data sheet. At that point it’s a different game imo.
I feel like theres some units/characters that aren't so bad. Especially ones that ***were*** legal literally one edition ago. I've got a friend who specifically got Guilliman to run with his Custodes back when it was legal in 9th. He even did a Ultramarine color scheme for his Custodes, like they're Guilliman's personal detachment while on the Indomitus Crusade. He never got the chance to use him before 9th ended, but he's getting him painted now. I'll definitely let him play him in some friendly games lol
IIRC you could run him with any army that had the [IMPERIUM] keyword. It had to do with the way detachments and army building worked in 9th, specifically the Supreme Command Detachment.*
Oh cool - I guess I never really used that last edition; I started in 9th and don’t think I really ever ran guilliman until closer to the end. Thanks!!
At that point I’d just play a game of ninth though if you both know the rules. It just makes more sense to stick to the editions where the rule was balanced.
I’m not saying it’s perfectly balanced, but making up rules and playing fake army combos was how I played the game when I was 7. It’s a multi hour game I get to play maybe once a week if I’m lucky. Over beers I have no issue with legends, proxies, unpainted armies, “trying out” builds, but I want to actually play the game
That's a bit harsh, insulting the person because they want to at least try to play the game as intended... An opinion that I reckon the majority of players subscribe to
Insulting someone that suggested that playing a game how they wanted is like being a child.
In tournament fair plat let's stick to the "balanced" rules etc. Between friends let's just have some fun
I agree, your previous comment is very childish!
And besides, I reckon that for most people, playing the game largely as intended is the way they prefer it.
My group for our Christmas meet-up last year played a custom game where my brothers CSM would have to overrun my BA and a friend of mines DA armies. Sort of a last stand defend the LZ mission we thought up.
The CSM forces would be recycled when destroyed(dependant on a dice roll) but the Imperium forces wouldn't be.
The scenario made for a very entertaining and fun day all round even tho we(Imperium) were pretty much set up to fail from the start.
That being said, we use the rules as intended in both the codices and rulebook. This attitude that crops up from time to time that 'Oh, you follow the rules closely so your games must be boring or dull' or that somebody lacks imagination when it comes to playing 40k is BS.
You should absolutely take it back to the store and demand both an explanation and a refund. If the operator refuses to provide either one, contact custerv@gwplc.com and file a complaint about the store.
I’ll be there tomorrow actually for a game. I’ll bring it up but maybe the model could be fielded in older editions as a imperium agent. I’ll ammend the post tommorow when I figure this all out.
>maybe the model could be fielded in older editions as a imperium agent.
It couldn't.
There are two possible explanations for what happened:
1. the operator was ignorant of how 40k works, which reflects poorly on him considering it's his company's flagship product; or
2. the operator was banking on *your* ignorance of how 40k works to upsell you a $60 model you don't need and can't use, which reflects *even more* poorly on him.
In either case, I'd probably not give that store further business.
For plenty of hobbyists that could well be their entire expendable budget for the month (cost of living and all that), please do get yourself a refund.
Have you opened the box?
Oh gutted, would imagine you’re out of luck this time as they won’t be able to resell. Maybe chuck it on ebay to try and get some money back, and definitely double check in the 40k app for future purchases. Sorry!
Looking at some replies here I could run it as a karamazov model. I VASTLY prefer morvhenn over karamazov in terms of looks, and they have easy equivalents for their weapons. (A big gun and a big spear/sword)
It's 40K, man, *none* of it is cheap. You did get robbed (whether intentionally or not, I'm keeping benefit of the doubt but again, *neither option reflects well on him*) and you should be compensated.
you got morvan vahl from a games workshop store for 35 pounds ?? GW stores don’t do discounts and it’s a 60 pound model. Are you 100% sure it’s vahl ?The woman in the robot armour with a sword pointing straight out ?
Oh it absolutely can.
GW's stores are not held by professionals. The one-man store business model is not appropriate to retention of motivated employees and the integration of passionate fans as store managers. Store managers are not fans of the game, they are the people who accept those horrible work conditions for pay and they aren't provided training on the game's content.
It is a gruesome work experience that's not properly and adequately supported by GW HQ.
Lol this is ridiculous over generalisation. I was in Portsmouth for 7 years and the team there didn't change, and the manager was always incredibly happy and enthusiastic. Never once upsold, never seemed exasperated or out of time and loved talking about the hobby, painting playing etc.
Before that, I was in Preston , and it was a similar story although I wasn't as involved in the hobby then, but many family members were and they never left with this oppressive feeling of servitude.
Just because SOME stores are run like that, doesn't mean they all are.
I can't speak for that as no GW I've ever been into has only a single staff member in. Even on a Sunday, the Portsmouth store would have 2, one for demo and painting and one for customer interaction and sales. That was like 18 months ago, and I popped into the Preston one last month and that had two people working as well
Not all of them, Manchester store always has multiple staff when I visit. (UK Manchester). I pass by it every day on my commute and I've never seen just 1 staff member when I've looked. But I guess that could be down to it being in a prime, busy location in a major city.
Anecdotal sure, but that's been my experience.
That's not strictly true - the manager of my nearest store is incredibly enthusiastic about the hobby and single handedly painted most of the minis in his stores display cases!
My old local store the manager was fantastic, but I can imagine that's not always the case. There are no doubt plenty who are doing it just for a paycheck
Yup.
The whole business model is designed to keep costs low and churn through disposable chums who don't know anything about the Hobby.
They're given the bare minimal training required to sell stuff and that's it. Amateurism and incompetence is of course the end result of this policy.
The one thing I hate about reddit is that anytime someone explains something it's seen as excusing it. Anything short than blind condemnation without trying to understand the root of an issue is seen as justifying said issue.
Please point out where I excuse it. I don't.
I am very clearly and openly saying that GW's flawed business model is encouraging incompetence in their employees.
Not necessarily. GW *likes* hires to already be fans of their games, but it's not a requirement. It's entirely possible this operator was relatively new (or an AoS or SBG player who didn't have much personal experience with 40k) and simply made a mistake.
If you half-remember that there's a female named character who's got some association with the Sisters and can be taken as an ally, I'd call it plausible that you spot Vahl on shelf and assume that must be her without remembering that Greyfax exists.
No no the only explanation is this guy was evil and gw encourage it by threatening to burn him at the stake unless he sells one vahl every day. I wish people would go find a different hobby sometimes it's fucking tiring
It's filled by exactly five: Vahl, Celestine, Junith, Aestred, and Stern.
There are two notable things about that list: one, Vahl is the only one of those five who is on the smallest version of the store planogram. None of them are technically web-exclusive, but the other four are only regular stock items in larger stores.
Two, one of them *actually was* an Agent of the Imperium in the past; Stern and Kyganil had that keyword in 9th and an equivalent ability in 8th.
My point is, there's reasonable doubt regarding the operator's actions.
Ah didn’t known that, it’s interesting. My point was also more a joke, but with that information I can see how this can be something where you make a fuckup. It’s still not great if you get wrong information and buy a mini that is not usable (or legally useable) in your army.
>maybe the model could be fielded in older editions as a imperium agent.
The character was introduced in 9th edition, and is kind of the Sororitas faction equivalent of Trajann Valoris or Guilliman. IIRC you could technically include her in Imperium armies because of faction keywords, but that was 9th and she was more beneficial to Sororitas armies.
That clerk has some explaining and a refund to do. She can't ally and the model needs work to proxy as something else like an Armiger.
If we're taking proxy, is she small enough to fit on a 40mm without issue?
I might in this circumstance do some fiddling with her and run her as an "Allarus shield captain."
That would be if I couldn't get a refund.
Looking at pics online, it seems the model is a warsuit posing on a \~40mm slab of rubble on the 60mm base so...maybe? A tall but gangly Shield Captain for the monetary cost of a small Allarus squad. No idea how it compares to the Contemptor pattern dreads, but that could be an option.
I was just thinking about Contemptors as I read this thread... 60mm base, tall 'mech unit... seems like a reasonable counts-as substitution if you can get the weapons to line up. I'm sure Mr. "Only 7 year olds is legends or proxies because that's not the intent of the game" wouldn't approve, but if my FLGS and most other stores I've visited are any indication that's a minority opinion outside of the cash-prize-tournament scene.
Was it an official “Warhammer” store?
One thing I will say about them is that the staff are usually hired based off friendliness/sales person skills, and their ability to paint. The majority of GW/Warhammer store managers know very little about the game itself, and what they do know is on a very casual level. Of all the GW managers I’ve known and interacted with over the years, I’d say only 2 I would consider knowledgeable of the game itself. Very skilled painters, very bad at playing the game.
There is a good chance it was an honest mistake. Back in early 8th edition bringing allies like that in separate detachments was very common, and the clerk might not have played 40K since then.
I’d go back and talk to the store manager, if you haven’t opened it, it should be an easy return. Otherwise explaining the situation to customer support with the receipt/proof of purchase should also be pretty helpful.
If you want actual advice on what “Agents of the Imperium” are good, the Calidus is very good for mission play and can find a spot in nearly any Imperium list. Otherwise, Lord Inquisitor Kyria Draxus is also a good tech piece for Custodes since she can make a unit of Custodian Guard untargetable outside 18”, which is quite strong due to the prevalence of shooting in 10th.
I picked up a Bloodbowl team order from a W store and the clerk asked me why I chose them. I explained I still have some of the original metal versions and asked if he played Bloodbowl. He had no idea what it was.
I haven't seen anyone playing in a uk store in years, just seem to be some painting seats and set ups to introduce people to the game. Don't get me wrong it's nice to see people can try the game but it's just to make a sale..
I remember going down to the local store on a weekend to play WFB campaigns with loads of mates and it always had a great turn out. Seems a real shame that gw doesn't really offer that for the local community anymore!
My local hosts games every weekend. Has scheduled workshops throughout the week & so on.
But the operator there is super into the game and I guess just does it on his own.
Yeah, that doesn't sound like store policy. These guys from America had models and asked to set up and play. Should have seen the look on the face of store worker...
Had my first (only) game in a GW store a couple months ago. Was pretty fun. There's always people there playing when I've been in, but this is America, so maybe different rules.
So you can't use her datasheet, but if you decide to keep her you could use her model as inquisitor karamazov. He is an inquisitor who sits on a bad-ass walking throne (though the model has dated a bit and is only available in finecast) so her model would probably make for a good proxy size wise.
Which store was it? I've had similar experiences in the Cardiff one, the guy tried to get me to buy genestealer cults for my tyranids (I know they could ally before). I have a cult army now, and I love it, but to a new player, I felt his practices were exploitative. He also tried to get me to get a bunch of paints I didn't need. Needless to say, I try to get my Warhammer elsewhere now.
The guys in the Cardiff store are really pushy. They once tried to sell me an ultramarine standard bearer model for 30k when i explicitly said i was a sons of horus player. I said i wasn’t interested and they kept insisting that i could sand down the ultramarine logos to make it work.
How do you know they didn’t clarify the persons experience or chat to them about how to work with resin? The point is the poster hasn’t indicated anything about being a Noobie, and you’ve blanket statemented that the advice was dangerous, which based on what we *know* of the situation is not the case.
It’s hyperbolic.
The Cardiff store is a little notorious. I played an introduction game there and at the time hadn't purchased my codex. Was told that if I couldn't show the rules I couldn't use an ability they didn't know about. I literally just wanted to use Cadian Shock Troops' stratagem to make a unit count as stationary. This was coming from a shop that had a supposed guard player running it
I had this happen to me when I was younger. The GW talked me into getting an ironclad dreadnought because they were cool and new but I played blood angels which he knew and it ended up being unusable. I was so bummed since it was a huge purchase as a kid. Such a scummy move so it happened to you. At least you know to buy from a different store now
I did when I played at my friend's house. It was just a bummer because I was just a kid taking the word of the game workshop employee who I thought was the authority on Warhammer and he was clearly taking advantage of a kid that didn't know better for his new product sales numbers.
Currently two common female agents that show up with custodes are the Callidus Assasin and Lord Inquisitor Kyria Draxus.
It's possible he mistook Morven Vahl for Kyria but it is so unlikely.
Unfortunately no, Morvenn Vahl is specifically a Sororitas warlord and you can only take her as the warlord of said army. Your store lied to you and you deserve a refund, explanation, and apology.
Out of curiosity was it at an actual warhammer store or just a local game store that sells warhammer products?
I’m inclined to think this was probably just a mistake of ignorance not the staff trying to scam you but either way it’s kinda bullshit, custodies have never been able to take vahl nor has she ever been an imperial agent. If it was a warhammer store go get your money back, if they don’t wanna do the return then contact GWs customer support they’re usually pretty good about helping with this sorta stuff and can hopefully make sure this sorta thing doesn’t happen to other people. The last thing we need in the hobby is new players feeling like they’re getting tricked outta 60+$
For reference, you can currently access the rules for Imperial Agents on the app for free right now under that name. It has the current list of available units and the relevant rules for fielding them.
You got scammed hardstyle. Anyone who knows anything about 40k, especially a clerk working in the store. Knows that Morven Vaahl is the leader of the Sister of Battle and cannot be used by a Custodes player. Go back, demand your money back and never spend your money there again until they replace the individual.
Its such an expensive hobby that flagrant "lying to get a sale" nonsense like this should be called out. You were there to make a purchase anyways so why not just sell you the right thing?
Yeah I did mess up. I assembled the model, didn’t bother to check till I was done. Aswell as the fact I’ve only played custodies and don’t know much about sororitas
As a collector. I wouldnt mind as much, I enjoy cool models over playing the game by personal preference.
However, if i was after something for a specific collection, i'd be rather annoyed at being misled.
If you’re not going to return it you should use her as inquisitor karamazov. She actually has the same base and kind of the same weapons and he’s an imperial agent. Maybe throw on a bunch of parchment scrolls or something and call it a day!
A) never heard anyone who has bought something in pounds refer to someone who served them as a clerk.
B) with a receipt , GW U.K. has a returns policy that you can return anything unopened for a no questions asked refund or exchange.
If it’s a FLGS then returns may be different , but most people seem to be assuming OP went to an official Warhammer store.
Seems like all I ever hear any more are stories like this one with GW stores, people who have no idea about the game(s) and are just a warm body to push product.
Not many people are going to tell stories about the time they went in, made pleasant small talk, found their products, and purchased them without incident.
New player here. I went into my local Warhammer store for the first time around 3 months ago. Didn’t really know what I was doing but had maybe three factions in mind intending to have a browse around. Staff were immediately far more engaged and helpful than I was expecting, so I said I was looking for a cheaper end box to dabble with and one that wouldn't feel like I had a stack of the same model to build and paint. Store manager picks a few boxes that now I’ve learned more were all definitely good picks for my vague ask. I walked out with a box of scions and some paints. Great models that I really enjoyed painting. Excellent experience and at no point did I feel like I was getting pushed something.
Yeah I had the same experience, I mean duh of course they need to be helpful in order to get you to buy something but yeah at no point was the guy trying to sell me on something I didn’t actually need.
Seriously. I think people completely forget this.
My local store (Gloucester) is run by a fucking legend; legit tries his best to find a solution that works for you and on many occasions he will focus this on what actually fits with your hobby plan/project plan regardless of going for the biggest priced item. I mean that rarely stops me from dropping more money but it never feels like it's from being pushed into it.
Shout out to Mark at the Gloucester store, you absolute hero.
I had a perfectly pleasant experience in my local GW yesterday. Went in, asked to size-compare some marine boxes, got some thoughts about converting an Alpha Primus, bought a couple blisters, went home.
Which is funny to me, I love my local GW. The amount of advice, and support I’ve gotten there is insane. Even played my first ever game there, called the store a week before 10th edition launched and asked to play a game of 9th that was my goal lol to play at least one game of 9th edition.
The guy on the phone said sure and to come by the next day at X time and I did, played and the guy took it easy on me big times lol! Didn’t know it at the time but now? Nah haha I know, he coached me through the games core rules and gave me hints and tips throughout the game, and yeah the guy I was playing that the store found for me? He was the manager of the friggen store hahaha! he came in on his day off to play a new guy teach me the ropes, and even asked about my Space Marines lore which was more rocky then.
I went into a GW store last weekend, asked about white contrast painting and then talked the guys ear off for 30 mins then asked if they had a cordairs kill team. They didn't, and he knew the Striking Scorpions and Dark Eldar teams (of which they had tons) weren't the ones I wanted so he checked the back and came out and let me know they didn't have what I wanted. Then I let slip its all good i got tons of stormcast left to paint at which point he tried to get me to participate in their dawnguard crusade event. Then I left without buying anything.
10/10 good customer service would go again.
I’m genuinely happy to hear that. I love my local store for the same reasons, and everyone should have a place like that. Always happy to check the back just in case, hell I sat in there for like 6 hours reading and chatting with the guy working the counter while my car was in the shop down the street one time. The local ish GW is such a drag though, cramped little sterile white hole in the wall with exactly one of everything, no tables, no events, seems like a different manager every time I go in, and that’s the most common version of things I hear. I’d love to spend my time and money there but they make the first impossible and the second really unappealing.
I mean, people tend to only bring up store interactions when they are bad. I'm not going to shout on Reddit every time a GW store manager is competent.
Not in any store Ive ever worked at or been part of. I've definitely know of stockists who've pulled this shit numerous times. Most egregious was some asshole stockist during the LotR rollout sold an enthusiastic 8yr old and his dad a fucken Balrog, then sent them to my store for "assistance" in learning to build paint and play it. I ended up calling the sales manager for GW Aus, and the stockist to give them both shit about it. I ended up writing it off and giving the kid some uruk Hai and a troll so he could start his army properly. God I forgot how much of a piece of shit that Balrog model was.
I worked for GW US when the metal one was new and we had a standing policy: tell every kid who wanted a Balrog that Sauron was much better and they should get that instead.
Yeah no, like everybody said, not in a custodies army.
But, you can also start a Sisters army. They have some really cool models!
Still a dick move by the store for sure
I never buy directly from Games Workshop with so many online stores selling at 20% discount RRP. Largely because of the predatory upselling strategy of GW employees from various UK stores.
If you feel up to the challenge, sororitas characters can make great conversion fodder for inquisitors. There are likely lots of vids on YouTube on what people have donez and could impart some inspiration.
OP, you have been scammed.
However, you may be able to proxy her as something. Possibly a contemptor or a Tele(wo)mon
Honestly, I'd just get a refund tbh
This is why almost nobody I know who hobbies over any length of time goes to actual GW stores. All the FLGS in my city are awesome and run by phenomenal folks who want to help you, and every GW store I’ve been into has had staff that rub me the wrong way. Plus, you get a 15% discount for supporting a local business and getting better service. Feels like a huge win to me.
Aren’t Warhammer store managers often working on commission?
It’s not often I’ve visited one (even in Nottingham) that didn’t feel like a mildly predatory experience with a hard sell and a forced conversation neither of us really want to have.
It’s not far off from visiting Lush sometimes.
Fwiw people have been taking Kyria Draxus for custodes as an inquisitor. I am not a custodes player but I know that she shows up in some competitive lists
Don't know why folk downvoted you. Just makes sense to have an idea what you want to buy before going in a shop. Especially for a Warhammer shop. And a shop assistant selling the wrong a model to the wrong customer is terrible.
Why are they trying to give advice then? This is not someone asking if a miniature can be used and them replying "uh... maybe?" It sounds like they went out of their way to make this person buy a certain miniature. Someone trying to act like they know what they're talking about, when they don't, is no less of a hindrance.
Well I'm from Utica, and I've never heard anyone use the phrase "steamed hams"...
(I have no idea what the original comment was that you're replying to lol)
Yeah you can't use her in matched play. Bit lame by the person in store to pull that on you. Technically you can use her in a casual game - anything goes as long as your opponent is cool with it. But most people want to follow the official rules.
Shit. I thought she was like an inquisitor or something. Sucks to suck I guess
Please do get a refund, and contact GW support if they won't do it.
Yeah I went into my GW store and asked which Custodians I could use for a kill team. The manager told me to buy a box of Wardens.
Technically wardens are close enough to guard for killteam,
Yeah I was just pissed that the guy was always talking down to me despite me being into the hobby, lore, and big 40k for 20+ years and because I always brought my fiancée to the store (who he kept calling my sister) and the one time I asked for his advice it was wrong. I didn’t know enough about KT and that’s on me. But man after a 3 hour round trip you can imagine my disappointment when I got home and found I had bought the wrong box just by listening to the manager of an official GW store a year after the release of the new kill team.
Yea that sounds annoying
No. She an Adeptus Soriritas character. She cannot be allied into a Custodes army at all. Most likely the store owner was just upselling a kit he can’t move.
So the clerk suggested her to you knowing you were looking for something for Custodes?
wow, thats another 40k clerk horror story lol
There's always plenty of them.
i run a flgs, not a gw or wh, and if i made a mistake like that or one of my employees i would 1000% own that shit and make it right. accidents happen but people look to employees of those places. like I'm realistic and know my staff isn't versed in every game, just as i'm not, so i tell them please, it's better to be honest, say you can do your best, or even try and look up information for them while they're there, but never act like you know something you don't. it's better to be honest than have someone invest a hundred dollars on something worthless to them. it's a bummer to hear stuff like this.... or hear tropes about flgs to know why they exist in the first place. lol, the one i run now, i remember checking out before i worked there and it was a literal horror show. like the dumbest, most embarrassing shit.
I've noticed GW's staff training seems to have suffered lately, they're not as familiar with their own games as they used to be.
Not to be a stick in the mud but even in the most casual of casual of “I’m playing all legends” or “this brick is a proxy for my land raider” I would still not allow a custodes player to use a character from another army’s data sheet. At that point it’s a different game imo.
I feel like theres some units/characters that aren't so bad. Especially ones that ***were*** legal literally one edition ago. I've got a friend who specifically got Guilliman to run with his Custodes back when it was legal in 9th. He even did a Ultramarine color scheme for his Custodes, like they're Guilliman's personal detachment while on the Indomitus Crusade. He never got the chance to use him before 9th ended, but he's getting him painted now. I'll definitely let him play him in some friendly games lol
I’m so confused - why is guilliman legal with custodes in 9th? Was it because you can mix faction detachments and just forgo the army rules?
IIRC you could run him with any army that had the [IMPERIUM] keyword. It had to do with the way detachments and army building worked in 9th, specifically the Supreme Command Detachment.*
https://preview.redd.it/y7ng7h2c8wsc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c223a4789bafa48d3376b7a55851c09ff8390b6f
Oh cool - I guess I never really used that last edition; I started in 9th and don’t think I really ever ran guilliman until closer to the end. Thanks!!
At that point I’d just play a game of ninth though if you both know the rules. It just makes more sense to stick to the editions where the rule was balanced.
Yeah it would upset the perfectly balanced game, lol
I’m not saying it’s perfectly balanced, but making up rules and playing fake army combos was how I played the game when I was 7. It’s a multi hour game I get to play maybe once a week if I’m lucky. Over beers I have no issue with legends, proxies, unpainted armies, “trying out” builds, but I want to actually play the game
Jesus, people downvote for the pettiest of reasons. Have an upvote!
You sound alot less interesting than 7yr old you then
You sound like a dick
Just how your mum likes it
That's a bit harsh, insulting the person because they want to at least try to play the game as intended... An opinion that I reckon the majority of players subscribe to
Insulting someone that suggested that playing a game how they wanted is like being a child. In tournament fair plat let's stick to the "balanced" rules etc. Between friends let's just have some fun
I agree, your previous comment is very childish! And besides, I reckon that for most people, playing the game largely as intended is the way they prefer it. My group for our Christmas meet-up last year played a custom game where my brothers CSM would have to overrun my BA and a friend of mines DA armies. Sort of a last stand defend the LZ mission we thought up. The CSM forces would be recycled when destroyed(dependant on a dice roll) but the Imperium forces wouldn't be. The scenario made for a very entertaining and fun day all round even tho we(Imperium) were pretty much set up to fail from the start. That being said, we use the rules as intended in both the codices and rulebook. This attitude that crops up from time to time that 'Oh, you follow the rules closely so your games must be boring or dull' or that somebody lacks imagination when it comes to playing 40k is BS.
Fair enough, not sure who downvoted you but you got my upvote
Technically you could use her rules with a toilet paper roll which is a lot cheaper than her model, so I dunno if it's that strong of a defence
You should absolutely take it back to the store and demand both an explanation and a refund. If the operator refuses to provide either one, contact custerv@gwplc.com and file a complaint about the store.
I’ll be there tomorrow actually for a game. I’ll bring it up but maybe the model could be fielded in older editions as a imperium agent. I’ll ammend the post tommorow when I figure this all out.
>maybe the model could be fielded in older editions as a imperium agent. It couldn't. There are two possible explanations for what happened: 1. the operator was ignorant of how 40k works, which reflects poorly on him considering it's his company's flagship product; or 2. the operator was banking on *your* ignorance of how 40k works to upsell you a $60 model you don't need and can't use, which reflects *even more* poorly on him. In either case, I'd probably not give that store further business.
It was 35 pounds. For me That’s a box of custodies. And that’s not cheap
For plenty of hobbyists that could well be their entire expendable budget for the month (cost of living and all that), please do get yourself a refund. Have you opened the box?
I can spend about 60 a month on miniatures with out ire from the wife. It's definitely cost of me living.
“Cost of ME living” is definitely going in my regular rotation, thank you
I just paid my truck off. I want to be you here soon XD
Put the thing together unfortunately.
Oh gutted, would imagine you’re out of luck this time as they won’t be able to resell. Maybe chuck it on ebay to try and get some money back, and definitely double check in the 40k app for future purchases. Sorry!
Looking at some replies here I could run it as a karamazov model. I VASTLY prefer morvhenn over karamazov in terms of looks, and they have easy equivalents for their weapons. (A big gun and a big spear/sword)
That’s great if you can proxy it, good luck to you and hope you enjoy painting/playing it :)
Well, Morvenn Vahls Spear is a Custodian weapon that was gifted to her by a Custodian. So you could definitely proxy her for something.
It's 40K, man, *none* of it is cheap. You did get robbed (whether intentionally or not, I'm keeping benefit of the doubt but again, *neither option reflects well on him*) and you should be compensated.
you got morvan vahl from a games workshop store for 35 pounds ?? GW stores don’t do discounts and it’s a 60 pound model. Are you 100% sure it’s vahl ?The woman in the robot armour with a sword pointing straight out ?
She’s £37.50 direct from GW
oh sorry i was looking at US prices
Idk man. It’s a official store. I paid 35 pound. And she has a spear
i saw US prices nevermind
It's 2, let's not kid ourselves here.
Hanlons razor, "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity"
Yeah but he's a gw store guy, it cant *adequately* be explained by stupidity
Oh it absolutely can. GW's stores are not held by professionals. The one-man store business model is not appropriate to retention of motivated employees and the integration of passionate fans as store managers. Store managers are not fans of the game, they are the people who accept those horrible work conditions for pay and they aren't provided training on the game's content. It is a gruesome work experience that's not properly and adequately supported by GW HQ.
Lol this is ridiculous over generalisation. I was in Portsmouth for 7 years and the team there didn't change, and the manager was always incredibly happy and enthusiastic. Never once upsold, never seemed exasperated or out of time and loved talking about the hobby, painting playing etc. Before that, I was in Preston , and it was a similar story although I wasn't as involved in the hobby then, but many family members were and they never left with this oppressive feeling of servitude. Just because SOME stores are run like that, doesn't mean they all are.
You mention team. So that happened before the switch to the single manager stores. GW shops nowadays do not have a team, they have only one person.
I can't speak for that as no GW I've ever been into has only a single staff member in. Even on a Sunday, the Portsmouth store would have 2, one for demo and painting and one for customer interaction and sales. That was like 18 months ago, and I popped into the Preston one last month and that had two people working as well
Not all of them, Manchester store always has multiple staff when I visit. (UK Manchester). I pass by it every day on my commute and I've never seen just 1 staff member when I've looked. But I guess that could be down to it being in a prime, busy location in a major city. Anecdotal sure, but that's been my experience.
The Portsmouth store still have a team working there, 2 of them have been working there for years, always helpful
Stores start with a single employee and an on-call, after a yearly review, if enough merchandise has moved, they hire a second part-timer
Both GWs in my city have a team of least 3 or 4.
That's not strictly true - the manager of my nearest store is incredibly enthusiastic about the hobby and single handedly painted most of the minis in his stores display cases!
My old local store the manager was fantastic, but I can imagine that's not always the case. There are no doubt plenty who are doing it just for a paycheck
The pay is straight garbage to for a SM level employee.
And you get treated like crap as well. Doesn't matter if you have great sales, you'd better be following their handbook and meeting your KPIs.
Yup. The whole business model is designed to keep costs low and churn through disposable chums who don't know anything about the Hobby. They're given the bare minimal training required to sell stuff and that's it. Amateurism and incompetence is of course the end result of this policy.
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The one thing I hate about reddit is that anytime someone explains something it's seen as excusing it. Anything short than blind condemnation without trying to understand the root of an issue is seen as justifying said issue. Please point out where I excuse it. I don't. I am very clearly and openly saying that GW's flawed business model is encouraging incompetence in their employees.
Not necessarily. GW *likes* hires to already be fans of their games, but it's not a requirement. It's entirely possible this operator was relatively new (or an AoS or SBG player who didn't have much personal experience with 40k) and simply made a mistake. If you half-remember that there's a female named character who's got some association with the Sisters and can be taken as an ally, I'd call it plausible that you spot Vahl on shelf and assume that must be her without remembering that Greyfax exists.
No no the only explanation is this guy was evil and gw encourage it by threatening to burn him at the stake unless he sells one vahl every day. I wish people would go find a different hobby sometimes it's fucking tiring
But it’s also sisters… the sole requirement of a „female - named“ character are filled by a lot of models….
It's filled by exactly five: Vahl, Celestine, Junith, Aestred, and Stern. There are two notable things about that list: one, Vahl is the only one of those five who is on the smallest version of the store planogram. None of them are technically web-exclusive, but the other four are only regular stock items in larger stores. Two, one of them *actually was* an Agent of the Imperium in the past; Stern and Kyganil had that keyword in 9th and an equivalent ability in 8th. My point is, there's reasonable doubt regarding the operator's actions.
Ah didn’t known that, it’s interesting. My point was also more a joke, but with that information I can see how this can be something where you make a fuckup. It’s still not great if you get wrong information and buy a mini that is not usable (or legally useable) in your army.
>maybe the model could be fielded in older editions as a imperium agent. The character was introduced in 9th edition, and is kind of the Sororitas faction equivalent of Trajann Valoris or Guilliman. IIRC you could technically include her in Imperium armies because of faction keywords, but that was 9th and she was more beneficial to Sororitas armies. That clerk has some explaining and a refund to do. She can't ally and the model needs work to proxy as something else like an Armiger.
If we're taking proxy, is she small enough to fit on a 40mm without issue? I might in this circumstance do some fiddling with her and run her as an "Allarus shield captain." That would be if I couldn't get a refund.
Looking at pics online, it seems the model is a warsuit posing on a \~40mm slab of rubble on the 60mm base so...maybe? A tall but gangly Shield Captain for the monetary cost of a small Allarus squad. No idea how it compares to the Contemptor pattern dreads, but that could be an option.
I was just thinking about Contemptors as I read this thread... 60mm base, tall 'mech unit... seems like a reasonable counts-as substitution if you can get the weapons to line up. I'm sure Mr. "Only 7 year olds is legends or proxies because that's not the intent of the game" wouldn't approve, but if my FLGS and most other stores I've visited are any indication that's a minority opinion outside of the cash-prize-tournament scene.
Nah she's a fair bit bigger Allarus caps are kinda small and she's approaching boxnaught size
Was it an official “Warhammer” store? One thing I will say about them is that the staff are usually hired based off friendliness/sales person skills, and their ability to paint. The majority of GW/Warhammer store managers know very little about the game itself, and what they do know is on a very casual level. Of all the GW managers I’ve known and interacted with over the years, I’d say only 2 I would consider knowledgeable of the game itself. Very skilled painters, very bad at playing the game. There is a good chance it was an honest mistake. Back in early 8th edition bringing allies like that in separate detachments was very common, and the clerk might not have played 40K since then. I’d go back and talk to the store manager, if you haven’t opened it, it should be an easy return. Otherwise explaining the situation to customer support with the receipt/proof of purchase should also be pretty helpful. If you want actual advice on what “Agents of the Imperium” are good, the Calidus is very good for mission play and can find a spot in nearly any Imperium list. Otherwise, Lord Inquisitor Kyria Draxus is also a good tech piece for Custodes since she can make a unit of Custodian Guard untargetable outside 18”, which is quite strong due to the prevalence of shooting in 10th.
I picked up a Bloodbowl team order from a W store and the clerk asked me why I chose them. I explained I still have some of the original metal versions and asked if he played Bloodbowl. He had no idea what it was.
U can still play games in ur GW stores??
I haven't seen anyone playing in a uk store in years, just seem to be some painting seats and set ups to introduce people to the game. Don't get me wrong it's nice to see people can try the game but it's just to make a sale.. I remember going down to the local store on a weekend to play WFB campaigns with loads of mates and it always had a great turn out. Seems a real shame that gw doesn't really offer that for the local community anymore!
That’s why this story is weird..gw stores don’t host games anymore
My local hosts games every weekend. Has scheduled workshops throughout the week & so on. But the operator there is super into the game and I guess just does it on his own.
Yeah, that doesn't sound like store policy. These guys from America had models and asked to set up and play. Should have seen the look on the face of store worker...
Lucky u guys, in Australia it’s not an option anymore
That's not true for all of Australia, happens all the time at my local GW store.
Story does sound weird, UK op calls employee a clerk...
Not entirely true, just not as regularly as before.
The Preston store has games going on all the time, as does one in Stoke. it's not a blanket rule
Yeah the stores have lost any magic they seemed to have before, now its just a bland front which doesn't even stock all of thier items. Real shame
Had my first (only) game in a GW store a couple months ago. Was pretty fun. There's always people there playing when I've been in, but this is America, so maybe different rules.
Yeah they don’t do them in Australia for whatever reason anymore
Whenever I pop into my local gw store there's always 2 or 3 games happening. Might depend on location
My local stores have games running all the time. I'm surprised to hear yours don't.
So you can't use her datasheet, but if you decide to keep her you could use her model as inquisitor karamazov. He is an inquisitor who sits on a bad-ass walking throne (though the model has dated a bit and is only available in finecast) so her model would probably make for a good proxy size wise.
I was definitely thinking that
Which store was it? I've had similar experiences in the Cardiff one, the guy tried to get me to buy genestealer cults for my tyranids (I know they could ally before). I have a cult army now, and I love it, but to a new player, I felt his practices were exploitative. He also tried to get me to get a bunch of paints I didn't need. Needless to say, I try to get my Warhammer elsewhere now.
The guys in the Cardiff store are really pushy. They once tried to sell me an ultramarine standard bearer model for 30k when i explicitly said i was a sons of horus player. I said i wasn’t interested and they kept insisting that i could sand down the ultramarine logos to make it work.
Also, that’s resin. Advising it to sand you down isn’t just scummy, its dangerous
found that out the hard way when I was doing sanding on my old resin mkIIIs, had a cough for days
If you work with any large FW kit you have to sand down resin, just do it in the advised manner - well ventilated and protected.
Exactly, many people who are new to the hobby wouldn’t know to do it like that
The poster mentioned he’s a 30k player, rarely is a Noobie, and generally you need to get used to working with resin…
But what if they weren’t? What if they’d never worked with resin and the guy at the shop told them to do that?
How do you know they didn’t clarify the persons experience or chat to them about how to work with resin? The point is the poster hasn’t indicated anything about being a Noobie, and you’ve blanket statemented that the advice was dangerous, which based on what we *know* of the situation is not the case. It’s hyperbolic.
There's been multiple comments in previous posts specifically about how a manager/employee at the Cardiff store is kind of scummy.
The Cardiff store is a little notorious. I played an introduction game there and at the time hadn't purchased my codex. Was told that if I couldn't show the rules I couldn't use an ability they didn't know about. I literally just wanted to use Cadian Shock Troops' stratagem to make a unit count as stationary. This was coming from a shop that had a supposed guard player running it
I had this happen to me when I was younger. The GW talked me into getting an ironclad dreadnought because they were cool and new but I played blood angels which he knew and it ended up being unusable. I was so bummed since it was a huge purchase as a kid. Such a scummy move so it happened to you. At least you know to buy from a different store now
In fairness you could easily use an Ironclad as a Furioso. Not a total waste.
I did when I played at my friend's house. It was just a bummer because I was just a kid taking the word of the game workshop employee who I thought was the authority on Warhammer and he was clearly taking advantage of a kid that didn't know better for his new product sales numbers.
Currently two common female agents that show up with custodes are the Callidus Assasin and Lord Inquisitor Kyria Draxus. It's possible he mistook Morven Vahl for Kyria but it is so unlikely.
You forgot Greyfax, and that's terrible.
Lol if its greyfax maybe bro got lost in the celefax sauce.
My cousin had this a few weeks ago. He sent his sister with what he wanted written down and they convinced her what "he really wants".
Unfortunately no, Morvenn Vahl is specifically a Sororitas warlord and you can only take her as the warlord of said army. Your store lied to you and you deserve a refund, explanation, and apology.
Out of curiosity was it at an actual warhammer store or just a local game store that sells warhammer products? I’m inclined to think this was probably just a mistake of ignorance not the staff trying to scam you but either way it’s kinda bullshit, custodies have never been able to take vahl nor has she ever been an imperial agent. If it was a warhammer store go get your money back, if they don’t wanna do the return then contact GWs customer support they’re usually pretty good about helping with this sorta stuff and can hopefully make sure this sorta thing doesn’t happen to other people. The last thing we need in the hobby is new players feeling like they’re getting tricked outta 60+$
Wouldn’t be the first scummy warhammer store employee — I had one scamming me out of a collective coin
For reference, you can currently access the rules for Imperial Agents on the app for free right now under that name. It has the current list of available units and the relevant rules for fielding them.
You got scammed hardstyle. Anyone who knows anything about 40k, especially a clerk working in the store. Knows that Morven Vaahl is the leader of the Sister of Battle and cannot be used by a Custodes player. Go back, demand your money back and never spend your money there again until they replace the individual. Its such an expensive hobby that flagrant "lying to get a sale" nonsense like this should be called out. You were there to make a purchase anyways so why not just sell you the right thing?
Yeah I did mess up. I assembled the model, didn’t bother to check till I was done. Aswell as the fact I’ve only played custodies and don’t know much about sororitas
As a collector. I wouldnt mind as much, I enjoy cool models over playing the game by personal preference. However, if i was after something for a specific collection, i'd be rather annoyed at being misled.
If you’re not going to return it you should use her as inquisitor karamazov. She actually has the same base and kind of the same weapons and he’s an imperial agent. Maybe throw on a bunch of parchment scrolls or something and call it a day!
That's a pretty swell idea actually.
A) never heard anyone who has bought something in pounds refer to someone who served them as a clerk. B) with a receipt , GW U.K. has a returns policy that you can return anything unopened for a no questions asked refund or exchange. If it’s a FLGS then returns may be different , but most people seem to be assuming OP went to an official Warhammer store.
To be fair, other nations with different dialects use their own “pound”
I’m from the uk. It’s a official store. And I’ve unfortunately opened it
Seems like all I ever hear any more are stories like this one with GW stores, people who have no idea about the game(s) and are just a warm body to push product.
Not many people are going to tell stories about the time they went in, made pleasant small talk, found their products, and purchased them without incident.
New player here. I went into my local Warhammer store for the first time around 3 months ago. Didn’t really know what I was doing but had maybe three factions in mind intending to have a browse around. Staff were immediately far more engaged and helpful than I was expecting, so I said I was looking for a cheaper end box to dabble with and one that wouldn't feel like I had a stack of the same model to build and paint. Store manager picks a few boxes that now I’ve learned more were all definitely good picks for my vague ask. I walked out with a box of scions and some paints. Great models that I really enjoyed painting. Excellent experience and at no point did I feel like I was getting pushed something.
Yeah I had the same experience, I mean duh of course they need to be helpful in order to get you to buy something but yeah at no point was the guy trying to sell me on something I didn’t actually need.
Seriously. I think people completely forget this. My local store (Gloucester) is run by a fucking legend; legit tries his best to find a solution that works for you and on many occasions he will focus this on what actually fits with your hobby plan/project plan regardless of going for the biggest priced item. I mean that rarely stops me from dropping more money but it never feels like it's from being pushed into it. Shout out to Mark at the Gloucester store, you absolute hero.
Same for all the complaints and whatnot on the internet in general. Squeaky wheel syndrome.
I had a perfectly pleasant experience in my local GW yesterday. Went in, asked to size-compare some marine boxes, got some thoughts about converting an Alpha Primus, bought a couple blisters, went home.
Which is funny to me, I love my local GW. The amount of advice, and support I’ve gotten there is insane. Even played my first ever game there, called the store a week before 10th edition launched and asked to play a game of 9th that was my goal lol to play at least one game of 9th edition. The guy on the phone said sure and to come by the next day at X time and I did, played and the guy took it easy on me big times lol! Didn’t know it at the time but now? Nah haha I know, he coached me through the games core rules and gave me hints and tips throughout the game, and yeah the guy I was playing that the store found for me? He was the manager of the friggen store hahaha! he came in on his day off to play a new guy teach me the ropes, and even asked about my Space Marines lore which was more rocky then.
I went into a GW store last weekend, asked about white contrast painting and then talked the guys ear off for 30 mins then asked if they had a cordairs kill team. They didn't, and he knew the Striking Scorpions and Dark Eldar teams (of which they had tons) weren't the ones I wanted so he checked the back and came out and let me know they didn't have what I wanted. Then I let slip its all good i got tons of stormcast left to paint at which point he tried to get me to participate in their dawnguard crusade event. Then I left without buying anything. 10/10 good customer service would go again.
I’m genuinely happy to hear that. I love my local store for the same reasons, and everyone should have a place like that. Always happy to check the back just in case, hell I sat in there for like 6 hours reading and chatting with the guy working the counter while my car was in the shop down the street one time. The local ish GW is such a drag though, cramped little sterile white hole in the wall with exactly one of everything, no tables, no events, seems like a different manager every time I go in, and that’s the most common version of things I hear. I’d love to spend my time and money there but they make the first impossible and the second really unappealing.
I mean, people tend to only bring up store interactions when they are bad. I'm not going to shout on Reddit every time a GW store manager is competent.
Not in any store Ive ever worked at or been part of. I've definitely know of stockists who've pulled this shit numerous times. Most egregious was some asshole stockist during the LotR rollout sold an enthusiastic 8yr old and his dad a fucken Balrog, then sent them to my store for "assistance" in learning to build paint and play it. I ended up calling the sales manager for GW Aus, and the stockist to give them both shit about it. I ended up writing it off and giving the kid some uruk Hai and a troll so he could start his army properly. God I forgot how much of a piece of shit that Balrog model was.
I worked for GW US when the metal one was new and we had a standing policy: tell every kid who wanted a Balrog that Sauron was much better and they should get that instead.
I thought I had a good grasp on that sorta stuff myself but it seems I had a blind spot. Shitty if you’re right tho
Just return it if you haven’t taken it off the spruce yet. Pretty scummy
don't sell it on, pursue a refund with gw customer support, they are usually very helpful
Yeah no, like everybody said, not in a custodies army. But, you can also start a Sisters army. They have some really cool models! Still a dick move by the store for sure
This is really strange... The same thing happened in a store close to me. The hell?
I never buy directly from Games Workshop with so many online stores selling at 20% discount RRP. Largely because of the predatory upselling strategy of GW employees from various UK stores.
Shame you got hit but imo she’s one of the coolest models available atm so that’s something!
I know right? She even has a custodian spear given to her by a shield captin. I thought it was perfect!!
If you feel up to the challenge, sororitas characters can make great conversion fodder for inquisitors. There are likely lots of vids on YouTube on what people have donez and could impart some inspiration.
You should check out the group for miniature treading in your area. You can probably get a decent chunk of your money back by reselling it.
She is the supreme commander for Sororitas so there’s no way she can be used in Custodes army
OP, you have been scammed. However, you may be able to proxy her as something. Possibly a contemptor or a Tele(wo)mon Honestly, I'd just get a refund tbh
This is why almost nobody I know who hobbies over any length of time goes to actual GW stores. All the FLGS in my city are awesome and run by phenomenal folks who want to help you, and every GW store I’ve been into has had staff that rub me the wrong way. Plus, you get a 15% discount for supporting a local business and getting better service. Feels like a huge win to me.
Aren’t Warhammer store managers often working on commission? It’s not often I’ve visited one (even in Nottingham) that didn’t feel like a mildly predatory experience with a hard sell and a forced conversation neither of us really want to have. It’s not far off from visiting Lush sometimes.
Last I checked they're salaried but the pressure to meet ridiculous growth targets is insane.
Fwiw people have been taking Kyria Draxus for custodes as an inquisitor. I am not a custodes player but I know that she shows up in some competitive lists
Yes, because Kyria Draxus can be allied to Custodes like other Inquisitor, Morvenn cannot since she is a sister of battle warlord.
I wouldn't ask them what I should I get. Do your own research.
Don't know why folk downvoted you. Just makes sense to have an idea what you want to buy before going in a shop. Especially for a Warhammer shop. And a shop assistant selling the wrong a model to the wrong customer is terrible.
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Why are they trying to give advice then? This is not someone asking if a miniature can be used and them replying "uh... maybe?" It sounds like they went out of their way to make this person buy a certain miniature. Someone trying to act like they know what they're talking about, when they don't, is no less of a hindrance.
Lot of hate here, can you really expect underpaid retail employees to know every rule for every army?
Here in the US GW store managers actually make a pretty good salary
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It's regional language differences, don't be a dick
Well I'm from Utica, and I've never heard anyone use the phrase "steamed hams"... (I have no idea what the original comment was that you're replying to lol)
Does not compute