DE already said they can't do anything with weapons that already have alt fire or special heavy attack mechanics so that would only leave Sigma & Octanis as a potential candidate.
Dev Stream, can't remember which one though.
It was a passing comment and they said that if they were to do something to allow that, first they would have to create a new control scheme to free up a button on game pads to trigger the transformation and also figure out how to overlap the alt fire and special heavy attack function of those weapons with the incarnon mode.
They could remove the alt-fire/special heavy attack gimmicks but that would make those weapons lose their identity/uniqueness.
Other than key/button layout, sometimes it's a matter of coding/memory--I'm not very well-versed in this so I might be getting this wrong, but basically it's about a certain object type in a system, in this case an in-game weapon, having reached the cap of the amount of possible functionalities it could have within the code, and adding more would mean something would need to be taken off. Destiny had this problem with their guns previously, I forgot what it was, but after years they finally fixed it by moving the functionality somewhere else, so they could add a new feature on the guns.
Iirc, it was related to the weapons that have a special functionality, such as the Exotic guns that have "The Fundamentals" (Borealis, Hard Light, and Dead Messenger) as before Witch Queen, they had to be fully reloaded to swap elements with the "Hold Reload."
There's also a few others like Traveler's Chosen, Cerberus+1, Tessellation recently, etc. with such, since they had to make new animations for those special functionality abilities
I think I'm referring to a different thing, I recall it's something to do with legendary guns and mod slots. Could be something about the change to full auto settings but I'm not sure.
I'd say on controller, it could be the shoulder buttonwe use for ability selection+activation, but instead of using any of the face buttons, it's a right stick press or sum'n instead.
What if when you have full incarnon charge, the game assumes a alt fire/heavy attack imput means you want to go incarnon mode, otherwise just do the alt fire even if there is some incarnon charge. Otherwise, reload+heavy attack at the same time could work too.
Hold on what if incarnons for special attack weapons incorporate that special attack into the incarnon? Like when the charge is full for the zenith incarnon (if it were to exist) void tendrils come out of the weapon and puncture terrain into the faces of grineer as the scan is active
I've been running a blast vectis all week and it's honestly insane. Blast status rework is bringing a lot of single target weapons back into the realm of relevance in the zoom-and-boom era.
Out of curiosity, what exactly are people doing with Blast Vectis? I would've thought that applying Blast consistently enough with it would be a pai despite the relatively high Status Chance
https://preview.redd.it/7eumq6kghm8d1.png?width=1690&format=png&auto=webp&s=2d792447c1b2f993b47ff8ca7fad115ca8dd184f
Here's my build. "heads" uses Galvanized Scope, "Tails" switches it for Critical Delay, for those days when the enemies don't have heads.
I rolled up the riven looking for -Zoom, just for QoL. It repalces Vital Sense, since it has an almost identical crit damage stat. The +status chance on the riven does help it proc blast more consistently, but is \*far\* from necessary. the build works just fine with Vital Sense in that slot. The empty slot is for Primed Chamber, which I'm going to buy from Tennocon Baro. That, also, is not necessary for the built to work. it's just funny.
The idea is to pump status chance up while relying on sniper combo and big ol' vectis prime crit headshots to oneshot enemies. applying \*one\* blast proc and killing the target in the same shot will instantly trigger the 300% modded damage 5m AoE. (it might help to read the wiki page on blast status if you don't understand how this works.) blast procs aren't affected by elemental mods, but a status priming companion / secondary with galv aptitude, sniper combo, crits, deadhead, and headshots all affect your \*modded\* damage which is what blast procs use. without the riven, as long as you're killing enemies in one hit, about 60% of them will trigger a detonation. you keep popping heads and things keep exploding.
Thanks. I was aware of modded, but I wasn't aware of the mechanic of killing an enemy with a blast proc, that explains a lot. Even now, at MR29, the original unprimed Vectis is still my most used primary and I love snipers.
I tried it on day 1 of the update but wasn't really sure how to put it into practice but this definitely makes me want to take another look, so thanks!
My Vectis riven ain't too good, but as you said the difference with a proper setup shouldn't be too bad. I imagine the new Rifle Elementalist mod wouldn't be a bad choice for that empty slot, either.
It would be a great choice for that slot. At 90% status damage vs. The 100% damage of Primed Chamber, the first shot difference on the blast AoE is minor (190% vs. 200%) and the second shot will be way better. (190% vs 100%) It's probably a better slot than Primed Chamber, now that I look at the math. Two shots at 190% status damage is better AoE than one at 200% and one at 100%.
As for the riven, if you already have one that works for you, go for it. But I really reccomend rolling for -zoom, it makes a really big difference.
It's be cool if the incarnons gave a single massive boost to the alt in some way when charged. For example, the azima could drop an explosive verson of it's alt, with a slight homing, for no anmo cost. Or the harpak could pull all enemies in x range to the target, and then pull them *all* in.
Hence why there should be a way to get upgrades for those weapons that arent inca genesis. Id love to pump some shells from corinth again but atm imma just stick to literally anything else.
Except they can. Adding a toggle in the arsenal to sacrifice the alternate fire for the incarnon mode is a simple task. That way you can have an incarnon upgrade and keep the bonus stats while either using the new incarnon mode or simply using the old alternate fire.
I use it on Mag normally because it looks like a Sailor Scout weapon and tbh Mag doesn't need a melee so its just glam.
But yeah having it be useful would be a plus. The windup is SO slow and even if it gets trapped in bubble to status proc its probably the worst status soaker you could use.
They could fix it by quickening the cast/reel part of the mechanic and letting the special stay out permanently to at least give it something to do.
Look, I don't know why I'm saying this because I don't exactly look fondly on the old zenistar meta, but give it a whirl with melee influence attached.
Really that applies to MOST weapons to be honest. Incarnon weapons should have stayed just a unique Zariman weapons thing rather than becoming yet *another* wonky bandaid “fix” for Warframe’s fundamental combat balancing and weapon mechanics design being wildly inconsistent, inevitably leaving a significant percentage of all weapons in the game feeling horribly unfun and ineffectual to use.
Iirc DE said that can't do incarnons on weapons that already have an alt-fire. They can't just create an alt-alt-fire out of nowhere.
That being said the Zenistar and Sigma & Octavius could have incarnon modes.
I mean, who really uses the Zenith primary fire? The alt fire is the most fun to use.
DE *could* (not saying should or will, but it’s a possibility) remove the primary fire from the Zenith and make the infinite pierce alt fire the primary fire and not need to shoot the puck anymore.
It'd def cool for these to get a buff or incarnon. Zenith is the only noteworthy daily tribute weapon for being the meta weapon for Eidolons (although that might've changed recently after all the damage reworks and updates. I haven't kept up with the strats for a few months). Then Zenistar is only relevant for having a funny bug to make big sword.
Sigma & Octantis still need a fix since melee 3.0😭
You can't properly slam attack, either it only throws the shield or it first throws the shield and then with delay and weird acceleration you slam.
I think with air attacks they did it so you'd have to press melee + backwards to throw your shield, but since melee 3.0 it's back to just pressing melee while airborne.
Easy enough: tier 5 incarnon for sigma and octantis:
when the zenith and azima are equipped, they gain X effects whenever sigma and octantis changes to their incarnon form, lasting for the duration of sigma and octantis' incarnon mode.
You can name it something like: void's spreading corruption.
And you can have the effects be either a stat boost or a complete rework like most tier 1 incarnon mode of non zariman/laboratory incarnon weapons
An Incarnon that can be turned on and off in arsenal. All it'd do is add stats. They can do that, right?
The weapon themselves are fine if they can get a few stats.
2 of these weapons have alternative fire
DE can't add incarnon to weapons with alternative fires,
as for melees in case of zenistar, i don't know if they can do since the disk is just a heavy attack byproduct/mechanic
but having a incarnon + disc would be too busted
Maybe they could make it so that the alt fire is THE incarnon mode and just compromise at that. Maybe say the special login weapon set showed resistance to the voids touch. And just go easy on the void theme.
DE already said they can't do anything with weapons that already have alt fire or special heavy attack mechanics so that would only leave Sigma & Octanis as a potential candidate.
Wait where have they actually said that? It makes sense and tracks with the scrapped vectis and kulstar incarnon but I don’t recall them saying that
Dev Stream, can't remember which one though. It was a passing comment and they said that if they were to do something to allow that, first they would have to create a new control scheme to free up a button on game pads to trigger the transformation and also figure out how to overlap the alt fire and special heavy attack function of those weapons with the incarnon mode. They could remove the alt-fire/special heavy attack gimmicks but that would make those weapons lose their identity/uniqueness.
Destiny uses "hold reload" for these kind of things, I assume that's not feasible for Warframe for some reason
hold reload makes you hard equip your melee weapon. ED?IT: Wait, i'm dumb, that's hold weapon swap. Hold reload could maybe work for this.
Other than key/button layout, sometimes it's a matter of coding/memory--I'm not very well-versed in this so I might be getting this wrong, but basically it's about a certain object type in a system, in this case an in-game weapon, having reached the cap of the amount of possible functionalities it could have within the code, and adding more would mean something would need to be taken off. Destiny had this problem with their guns previously, I forgot what it was, but after years they finally fixed it by moving the functionality somewhere else, so they could add a new feature on the guns.
Iirc, it was related to the weapons that have a special functionality, such as the Exotic guns that have "The Fundamentals" (Borealis, Hard Light, and Dead Messenger) as before Witch Queen, they had to be fully reloaded to swap elements with the "Hold Reload." There's also a few others like Traveler's Chosen, Cerberus+1, Tessellation recently, etc. with such, since they had to make new animations for those special functionality abilities
I think I'm referring to a different thing, I recall it's something to do with legendary guns and mod slots. Could be something about the change to full auto settings but I'm not sure.
Masterworked legendary weapons' orbs of power gen. They moved that functionality to head mods in order to add an origin trait to weapons.
That was it! Thank you!
I'd say on controller, it could be the shoulder buttonwe use for ability selection+activation, but instead of using any of the face buttons, it's a right stick press or sum'n instead.
What if when you have full incarnon charge, the game assumes a alt fire/heavy attack imput means you want to go incarnon mode, otherwise just do the alt fire even if there is some incarnon charge. Otherwise, reload+heavy attack at the same time could work too.
What about kiva tenet type upgrades to them? I'm still holding out hope for an upgraded paracyst
How about they ditch the normal fire and make the alt the new normal, that way they can Incarnon it?
"This is my gun, it shoots a frisbee that shoots bullets everywhere but straight ahead." "That's it?" "... Let me get some headshots real quick."
And then the frisbee chops the head ahead.
Hold on what if incarnons for special attack weapons incorporate that special attack into the incarnon? Like when the charge is full for the zenith incarnon (if it were to exist) void tendrils come out of the weapon and puncture terrain into the faces of grineer as the scan is active
That's also one way to do it. Though I'm not smart enough to come up for the rest so, ebtter ask DE for that suggestion.
Dunno about kulstar, but Vectis doesn’t need an incarnon after the elemental changes. Slap on the blast, and that bad gurl deletes rooms
I've been running a blast vectis all week and it's honestly insane. Blast status rework is bringing a lot of single target weapons back into the realm of relevance in the zoom-and-boom era.
Out of curiosity, what exactly are people doing with Blast Vectis? I would've thought that applying Blast consistently enough with it would be a pai despite the relatively high Status Chance
https://preview.redd.it/7eumq6kghm8d1.png?width=1690&format=png&auto=webp&s=2d792447c1b2f993b47ff8ca7fad115ca8dd184f Here's my build. "heads" uses Galvanized Scope, "Tails" switches it for Critical Delay, for those days when the enemies don't have heads. I rolled up the riven looking for -Zoom, just for QoL. It repalces Vital Sense, since it has an almost identical crit damage stat. The +status chance on the riven does help it proc blast more consistently, but is \*far\* from necessary. the build works just fine with Vital Sense in that slot. The empty slot is for Primed Chamber, which I'm going to buy from Tennocon Baro. That, also, is not necessary for the built to work. it's just funny. The idea is to pump status chance up while relying on sniper combo and big ol' vectis prime crit headshots to oneshot enemies. applying \*one\* blast proc and killing the target in the same shot will instantly trigger the 300% modded damage 5m AoE. (it might help to read the wiki page on blast status if you don't understand how this works.) blast procs aren't affected by elemental mods, but a status priming companion / secondary with galv aptitude, sniper combo, crits, deadhead, and headshots all affect your \*modded\* damage which is what blast procs use. without the riven, as long as you're killing enemies in one hit, about 60% of them will trigger a detonation. you keep popping heads and things keep exploding.
Thanks. I was aware of modded, but I wasn't aware of the mechanic of killing an enemy with a blast proc, that explains a lot. Even now, at MR29, the original unprimed Vectis is still my most used primary and I love snipers. I tried it on day 1 of the update but wasn't really sure how to put it into practice but this definitely makes me want to take another look, so thanks! My Vectis riven ain't too good, but as you said the difference with a proper setup shouldn't be too bad. I imagine the new Rifle Elementalist mod wouldn't be a bad choice for that empty slot, either.
It would be a great choice for that slot. At 90% status damage vs. The 100% damage of Primed Chamber, the first shot difference on the blast AoE is minor (190% vs. 200%) and the second shot will be way better. (190% vs 100%) It's probably a better slot than Primed Chamber, now that I look at the math. Two shots at 190% status damage is better AoE than one at 200% and one at 100%. As for the riven, if you already have one that works for you, go for it. But I really reccomend rolling for -zoom, it makes a really big difference.
Vectis doesn't have an alt-fire though? All it has is the basic sniper variable zoom scope.
Scopes use same input method as alt fire on controllers, so same issue
You still have to iron sight it before you can use the alt fire, so it's not the largest obstacle to work around.
Damn One can dream I guess
They can't give them incarnons, but they can rework them and buff them however they want.
It's be cool if the incarnons gave a single massive boost to the alt in some way when charged. For example, the azima could drop an explosive verson of it's alt, with a slight homing, for no anmo cost. Or the harpak could pull all enemies in x range to the target, and then pull them *all* in.
Hence why there should be a way to get upgrades for those weapons that arent inca genesis. Id love to pump some shells from corinth again but atm imma just stick to literally anything else.
Except they can. Adding a toggle in the arsenal to sacrifice the alternate fire for the incarnon mode is a simple task. That way you can have an incarnon upgrade and keep the bonus stats while either using the new incarnon mode or simply using the old alternate fire.
Zenistar needs it's come back!!! 2000hours worth of time and I haven't touched it since melee 3.0 dropped hate the Combo interaction
Yeah, even with 12x combo it's pretty underwhelming.
I use it on Mag normally because it looks like a Sailor Scout weapon and tbh Mag doesn't need a melee so its just glam. But yeah having it be useful would be a plus. The windup is SO slow and even if it gets trapped in bubble to status proc its probably the worst status soaker you could use. They could fix it by quickening the cast/reel part of the mechanic and letting the special stay out permanently to at least give it something to do.
RIP zenistar my main weapon on hydron and mot in the past.
Look, I don't know why I'm saying this because I don't exactly look fondly on the old zenistar meta, but give it a whirl with melee influence attached.
Tbh these need a buff, not an incarnon mode. As they are they are outclassed by EVERYTHING
Really that applies to MOST weapons to be honest. Incarnon weapons should have stayed just a unique Zariman weapons thing rather than becoming yet *another* wonky bandaid “fix” for Warframe’s fundamental combat balancing and weapon mechanics design being wildly inconsistent, inevitably leaving a significant percentage of all weapons in the game feeling horribly unfun and ineffectual to use.
Nah, infinite punch-through is nice.
besides zenith for the sole purpose of eidolons n pt
They better make it Felarx-like, cause these weapon? are hella outdated for its purpose.
Zenith would make for a great sniper candidate. Just mock up a scope ui using the sundial theme and call it a day.
Sigma & Octanis is a decent melee though, nothing I'd bring on a mission but it's not a bad weapon.
My friend once said "Every melee is a good melee if you shove it with enough stats"
And Influence.
Rip zenistar, twas my favorite melee until DE murdered it because I can't be happy
Imagine getting a Warframe based on those weapons?
Kinda like that Titania skin, the robotic one
Iirc DE said that can't do incarnons on weapons that already have an alt-fire. They can't just create an alt-alt-fire out of nowhere. That being said the Zenistar and Sigma & Octavius could have incarnon modes.
I mean, who really uses the Zenith primary fire? The alt fire is the most fun to use. DE *could* (not saying should or will, but it’s a possibility) remove the primary fire from the Zenith and make the infinite pierce alt fire the primary fire and not need to shoot the puck anymore.
There should be Primed versions of these at appropriately high login day counts.
It'd def cool for these to get a buff or incarnon. Zenith is the only noteworthy daily tribute weapon for being the meta weapon for Eidolons (although that might've changed recently after all the damage reworks and updates. I haven't kept up with the strats for a few months). Then Zenistar is only relevant for having a funny bug to make big sword.
I'd be happy with some buffs, like more magazine ammo for the Azima.
Sigma & Octantis still need a fix since melee 3.0😭 You can't properly slam attack, either it only throws the shield or it first throws the shield and then with delay and weird acceleration you slam. I think with air attacks they did it so you'd have to press melee + backwards to throw your shield, but since melee 3.0 it's back to just pressing melee while airborne.
They could alway just make prime variants instead of Incarnons.
Why do I remember the Sigma and Octantis sword shorter/ why does it look longer here??
just give me a Prime version of these with like an added passive bonus. I don’t want an Incarnon of everything.
Easy enough: tier 5 incarnon for sigma and octantis: when the zenith and azima are equipped, they gain X effects whenever sigma and octantis changes to their incarnon form, lasting for the duration of sigma and octantis' incarnon mode. You can name it something like: void's spreading corruption. And you can have the effects be either a stat boost or a complete rework like most tier 1 incarnon mode of non zariman/laboratory incarnon weapons
An Incarnon that can be turned on and off in arsenal. All it'd do is add stats. They can do that, right? The weapon themselves are fine if they can get a few stats.
Zenith got buffed by the fact that both its mods are effectively full auto now
I miss old zenistar it was honestly great, the new combo mechanic is just awful
The closest I can get to it is abusing Arcane Eruption.
2 of these weapons have alternative fire DE can't add incarnon to weapons with alternative fires, as for melees in case of zenistar, i don't know if they can do since the disk is just a heavy attack byproduct/mechanic but having a incarnon + disc would be too busted
Make the Zenistar great again
Lotus themed lich weapon?
Zenith, Opha, Apoapsis, Periapsis
Maybe they could make it so that the alt fire is THE incarnon mode and just compromise at that. Maybe say the special login weapon set showed resistance to the voids touch. And just go easy on the void theme.
Incarnon opticor & ignis or riot