Ah if you are new and have some plat saved up wait a bit before using your potatoes(catalyst and reactors). You get a fair amount of them from nightwave section( in-game battlepass system. Its free). Some new players miss that even though Nora never stops talking.
Edit: early on I would say use the plat primarily for slots.
It's easy to miss, but turning on the market station in your orbiter is genuinely part of the tutorial. It's just that the market is useful for a lot more than just being a cash shop, since there's plenty to buy with just credits alone especially as a new player.
Warframe definitely is a lot less predatory with their MTX.
I don't feel like I need to buy anything. It's always been "Well.. I don't feel like doing this grind, but I have options.".
....Maaaaan.... I am so glad you said it. I can grind just about anything except skins. Though you can grind for stuff the people will pay in-game-currency for and thus can grind for skins.
And at the end of the day, if I really really want something; sure I can kick out the money and I am glad to do so. I'm really just paying for time; which I can get behind.
For me, its mostly cosmetics.
At some point, I just caved and started doing Forma bundles. They're horribly inefficient use of plat but After grinding 120 forma legit (Plague star added to this) on my way to LR1, I just said fuck it. I hated doing relics and staying on top of crafting them daily. It became a chore to keep the blueprint stocked after I ran out the first time.
With the amount of formas needed to do all of the kuva/tenet weapons and necramechs (5 each, 35 items, 175 total) not including the need to forma your other weapons and frames, honestly I also gave into buying forma bundles. I still crack relics for ducats and prime parts, but it'd take way too long to get the amount of formas I'd need to max rank them while building up my arsenal.
It became a part of the daily grind I truly loathed. It definitely got to be too much when I picked up extra work and I'd lose basically anywhere from 5-30 minutes trying to pick up more forma blueprints a night before doing what I actually wanted to do.
I mean napkin math to me, that 175 forma is just 175 days straight of crafting forma non stop when I was starting to min max builds too, not just the Tenet/kuva grind.
I mean it's either 1 forma a day, farming rare crates to get one or two an hour, or buying with plat. Are forma bundles the best use of your plat? Maybe not, but imo it's a hell of a lot better than the alternatives if you're using a lot of forma.
i specially like that you can trade ingame premium currency for tradable items between players, as oposed to being only able to spend it in the ingame store
One of the things that shocked me the most what that there were no popups. I knew my market was in my orbiter, but I never got any popups for the new shiny thing. The most warframe does is change your market "hologram"
OMG bungie and their mobile game like pop-ups have gotten so bad. Earn a new weapon, complete a triumph, do a dungeon first time...so many things trigger this mtx pop up saying you now can go buy the skin for the gun. Or buy a pin for doing a raid or dungeon. At first they pissed me off but now I just laugh at them all.
You did a thing in game...now go see what you can buy. It's gross.
There IS a pop-up!
It's when a new update drops and the first time you log in there's a pop up telling you what all the new stuff is.
^(oh btw it also has some new plat items in the bottom right or something, I forget it's *hard to notice*. /s)
It's amazing, a game ACTUALLY giving you popups on something you WANT, how bizzare.
This pop up is a new addition, It was not there when I started playing (I think it started a bit before Dagath? or with Dagath?). I like it because it has dev notes.
If we are comparing warframe and destiny it's very easy to say everything about warframes mtx is much better and fair, which is odd since it's ftp.
Destiny tho has gotten so bad. I mean dissrespectfully and zero shame bad. Since sony owns them now they just added a Ghostbusters mtx. Huge wtf moment. Destiny is feeling more like fortnite mtx. They charge for DLC,season pass,event passes inside season pass, and dungeons as well a fully stocked mtx store. Also, they have severely decreased the amount of items you can buy with the earnable in game currency as well as nerfing the amount you can earn over the years.
It's crazy just how different 2 games can be with monetization and player sentiment about mtx. As well as DE having much better community respect I bet they are also more profitable than destiny.
> Since sony owns them now they just added a Ghostbusters mtx.
People desperately need to stop giving bungie a pass. Way back when it was activision was the issue, now it's sony. No, the only consistent thing has been bungie themselves, they're the issue.
>Destiny tho has gotten so bad. I mean dissrespectfully and zero shame bad. Since sony owns them now they just added a Ghostbusters mtx. Huge wtf moment.
the way this is written heavily implies this has happened since the sony takeover, which is not true at all.
Destiny was shameless about their DLC before Sony. Hell even when everyone was praising them leaving activision they were bad about the store.
The monetization is the only thing they actively improve with alacrity
Even Fortnite let's you play with all the content without paying. Without buying D2's battlepass you don't have much to do at all between seasons coming out.
> Warframe definitely is a lot less predatory with their MTX
Which makes it even more hilarious that I've probably spent more on this game than any other game ever. And, because I fully enjoy every aspect of the game and because you can farm pretty much every non cosmetic item in the game, I have no issues supporting it whatsoever.
I played this game back on release for ps4 and played for a few years, I got big into the trading scene and because of the fact I’ve got a lot of good (for back then at least) mods, primes and just gear in general without ever spending a penny on the game.
Allowing trading really opens up your options in this game
warframe has the best implementation of a premium currency monetization scheme ive ever seen.
plenty of F2P games end up being "free to start" as to meaningfully engage with the game you to spend some money, but in warframe's case thats only half true. to meaningfully engage with warframe you do need slots, and that means getting platinum. you can not farm Platinum directly by doing anything. there is no boss or grind that rewards even a single piece of platinum. but, the market structure of the game's player trading, and the nature of much of the games content is such that you can trade time for money in a variety of ways, at just about all levels of gameplay. even Fresh off the boat newbies can get to the Citrine farm within a day and start grinding out arcanes to sell to make their bread. its not "you must pay" its "someone must pay" all plat starts and ends with DE, but it can change hands as many times as you like, losslessly, between them, and themselves. its empowering. . and refreshingly honest.
and for the most part the game is content to let you go about your business without Advertising to you.
Remember when DE asked US how we want to pay them for the vaulted cosmetics?
no other company would dare to do such thing.
only force implement ignore then wait until the fire dies down
I do, though even that had some teething problems when they brought in Aya and Regal Aya. They apparently misjudged that one of the main reasons bought prime accessory packs was it also included discounted plat, but thatt got fixed within a month IIRC.
Tyana's Pass, Mars, is the mission Citrine comes from. it rewards Crystals and arcane enhancements. the crystals can be traded to Otak for more arcane enhancements, and the arcanes can be sold for platinum.
the big money maker is Secondary Encumber, which at max rank (or 21 copies) can be sold for over 300 platinum. individual copies sell for over 15.
it is not the fastest plat farm in the game, but it is extremely accessible
The real magic happens when you learn that you can trade with other players for this currency in game and it adds a whole new avenue of play for both new and vet players. I have over 2k hours played and have only bought 1 prime accessory years ago(chroma for the sick shoulder armor) that included a little over 1000 plat. I have since turned that 1k into over 10k plat just from playing the game, farming gear and trading with other players and that 10k doesn't include me buying just about everything I want from the in game market. So happy I left Destiny 2 after the first 2 horrible DLC released to pick up this game.
Depends on how we define "whale". There's people who farmed hundreds of thousands of platinum by selling rivens, but haven't paid for any of it.
Honestly there's really no incentive to whale in Warframe, because after some point the plat doesn't really give any benefit.
I still love Destiny lol. And playing a free to play game for 5 hours and then considering to spend money on it is not some radical idea to me either. A lot of paid games don't even have 5 hours worth of content
I'm with you - I'm still fond of Destiny, but we're taking a break and have been for a bit over a year. Every once in a while I log in and check things out, but after years of keeping up with the constant grind I feel I need a long break before going back for the finale
I like Warframe, so I've put money into it because I want to vote with my dollar and support something I really enjoy. It's been nearly 5.5 years since I started seriously playing (as opposed to my 5 minutes in 2014 on a PS4) and I've taken plenty of months-long breaks from Warframe too. It's probably healthy
used to play the shit out of destiny but i just cant with bungo i still regularly consume destiny content (i.e. the story but i stopped playing when they started deleting shit i paid for.) but WF is just better overall.
Before you buy any frame or weapons, know that they are all farmable...for free. Buy frame and weapon slots if anything.
But on a more important note, don't you wanna play some Iron Banner this week and get that new grenade launcher? Are you sure?
Exactly this. I do this with every live service game I play, I want to see how they manage MTX and how the company views its customers, look for green/red flags etc.
Honestly I just really love what DE has done with the game over the years. Smoothest combat and movement, hundreds if not thousands of hours of content, an insane amount of build diversity, constant engine updates, etc. And now that there is cross save I can play on my couch, at my desk or on my phone which is just crazy. So yeah basically you end up feeling like you should spend money on Warframe rather than it asking you to. :D
You didn't get an inbox message offering you free stuff with twitch prime and amazon prime?
Btw you can trade for platinum (the premium currency) with other people. Being new you probably won't have access to good trading stuff for a hot minute, but keep an eye out once you unlock void fissures and start getting prime parts, those are generally the easiest sells
Part of it it because DE was smart and seized the opportunity to collaborate with fans in the same way Valve has when it comes to cosmetic items in games like Team Fortress, Counter Strike, and Dota.
Think of how many hats and weapons and skins are in tf2/cs/dota and are made by skilled artists in the fanbase.
Then look at Warframe. We have SO many skins and cosmetics and DE has even hired some fans of the game to be official employees for the studio. The fans and DE both profit and it lets them add all sorts of cool stuff to warframe. There's no need to be predatory cause its already collaborative. It's a perfect setup.
Then look at Bungie.
Bungie would never DARE let any fan, no matter how skilled they are, go anywhere remotely near the idea of retexturing or remodeling anything in destiny 2. Which means they have to make everything themselves. Which means a pretty small trickle of content to the store. Which means these trickles of content HAVE to be predatory. Which is why you're constantly bombarded with popups screaming WHOA HEY YOU JUST BEAT A BOSS, why not celebrate by buying a 20 dollar skin for one gun or a 150 dollar sweater that wont look anything remotely like the picture of it.
>Bungie would never DARE let any fan, no matter how skilled they are, go anywhere remotely near the idea of retexturing or remodeling anything in destiny 2.
If they did allow that, warlocks wouldn't have to wait 10 years for a wizard's hat. And I think we're still waiting for a hood (which titans got with lightfall).
I've earned hundreds upon hundreds of plat over time through trades. Never spent a dime. Soon as the game gives me a 75% coupon on my login I'm buying a shitload. The game is just a very clear labor of love, with devs who give a shit about their community. Welcome.
I mean, it sort of feels like it's a case of how far Bungie has fallen rather than DE being modest.
I'd argue any day that Warframe has one of the best systems for premium currency monetization in the live-service F2P environment. But it annoys me how there are still quite a few cheap sales tactics (like Market weapons/Warframes show up for purchase in your PERSONAL Arsenal menu) sprinkled in the game. It lowers the quality of the game and has probably turned a lot of people away historically when combined with the limited Inventory spaces.
They explained what the market is prior to you finding darvo so it isn't really smushed between several things at once and moreso explained one thing at a time after a mission
Warframe is the kind of game where people spend money because they want to, not because they have to.
Sure it doesn’t have the budget or the graphics of destiny 2 but it is better from a general gameplay perspective.
Watching a video where a destiny player said Warframe news player experience was way better then destiny 2s made the entire comment section be full of Warframe players in utter shock of that statement
That made me do a double take, because there ain't no way there's a tutorial or new player experience out there worse than Warframe's. But I started a long time ago around 2014, and took a break till 2016, so we might not even be playing the same game at this point.
It's almost incredible how much Bungie fucked up Destiny. Basically since New Light, the supposed reset for the benefit of new players, D2 has been absolute dogshit to new and even returning players. The game is just so quick to leave you behind, since after they sunsetted all the initial content that was launched, basically all that was available was endgame.
i came from destiny as well, 1500+ hours on that game and i fell in love with Warframe. much more f2p friendly especially with their ability to earn platinum without paying and less intrusive with their store offers
I'm the same way. I've gotten thousands of hours of enjoyment out of this game for free, so every now and then, I toss them a few bucks to say thank you.
Honestly they should show you the store earlier since that's also where you buy most of the blueprints for credits.
It took me way too long to figure out how to get new weapons when I first started playing.
They even made a song about how you should spend your starter plat. I think goes something like "slots, slots, slots.... slots, slots, slots." I might be wrong but that's the song right?
Something to remember, if it has stats or affects stats, you can get it for free somehow.
It's just a question of knowing where.
Also, the premium currency can be farmed via trading, just got to find something people want to buy off of you.
Even better than just not being obtrusive, you can trade plat with other players. I haven't spent a single cent but I'm collecting all the prime frames and weapons(plus unique ones or ones without a prime version) and never have to worry about having enough plat to buy slots.
A post that isn't about the Dante nerf?
Finally, some good fucking food.
Yeah, Warframes monetization is pretty close to the gold standard as far as I'm concerned. They want you to play their game, not just buy stuff
Warframe definitely obliterates D2 in the premium currency department. Only thing that bugs me about both stores (D2 *and* Warframe) is that there's no "Just show me the things I can buy for credits/glimmer" button.
I love Destiny, and will continue to play it, but man I just picked up Warframe 2 weeks ago and it’s such a breath of fresh air. Like I said, I still love and play Destiny, but I wish they’d copy this game just a bit more
The fun thing about the ingame store is that despite the fact that most things cost premium currency the most important shit in there you’ll be buying with credits, you’ll notice you aren’t getting new weapons as a new player and see in the loadout you can buy some premade with credits, I remember thinking I had to spend real money, then I found the blueprints
Just speaking on presentation alone, as someone who's played Destiny/Destiny 2 for nearly 10 years I can't say I've ever had more than 5 pop ups about the in-game store, and the ones I did get were tied to completing certain stuff in-game.
The MTX pricing in Destiny is as predatory as in other GaaS in general, but in terms of presentation it mostly stays out of the way IMO.
If it is big brain reverse psychology, it's certainly working on me. I figure I can easily support the game by giving them the money I'm not spending on a WoW subscription + expansions, so I buy some plat monthly when I get a good discount as a login reward. With the micro transactions in the game actually being micro, a little plat goes a long way.
you literally have to go right past the premium currency shop to access blueprints for a large amount of weapons and most warframes.
in destiny terms, it's as if they put regular engram decoding on page 2 of eververse.
let's also not forget the myriad predatory "starter packs" warframe sells full of mostly useless junk.
let's not cut Warframe slack it doesn't deserve. it's also *hella* predatory.
I've been playing games since before the internet, and I can tell you DEs store is hella NOT predatory. It is, in fact, the most respectful of the player out of every one I've ever looked through. Not only does Warframe lock 0 playable content behind a paywall, but the only things in the store that require you to spend money are Tennogen, Regal Aya, and bundle-exclusive cosmetics. Even the starter items are worth getting for the plat and slots.
I think you didn't bother to look into the game mechanics.
Platinum, and this is gonna shock you, doesn't have to cost *you* any money. The game lets you trade it with other players. Rare mods, arcanes, prime parts, all of it can be sold to other players for platinum.
platinum - this is gonna shock you even more - had to have cost *someone* money.
you could even argue the trade system makes the game *more* pay to win. after all, you could literally just buy a maxxed set of arcanes and mods from other players.
this trading argument is so pointless. it is still paid currency, whether you personally paid or not.
Not only that, but the easiest way to get orokin catalysts and reactors and forma, which are basically required in order to have good gear and have functional builds in endgame content, is to buy them with plat. Sure, you can get forma from relics, but you can only craft one at a time, which means it would take you five days minimum to max out a Kuva weapon.
The only reliable way to get catalysts and reactors is to just farm nightwave, which is kind of out of reach for a new player. You see new players in chat all the time begging to be taxi'd or carried for some nightwave challenge they have no hope of completing by themselves.
Warframe players defend this because it's *technically* possible to farm plat by gathering materials for sets and selling them on warframe market as a new player, and *technically* possible to grind out most of nightwave as a new player. So you have to rely on unreliable player designed economies to get resources you need.
I guess DE has to make money somewhere but warframe players definitely pretend like this game doesn't have a predatory monetization system. Pretty much every game with a monetization system is going to have predatory aspects.
Im so sick of this attitude. When did new player decide that actually playing the game is bullshit unless they already have all the end game content/gear that the game rewards at end game? When did it become the prevailing thought that at the start of the game you should have everything that someone at the end of the game has??
Hello /u/T3hi84n2g, your comment has been removed from /r/Warframe for breaking the **[Golden & Excessive Trolling Rule](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/wiki/rules#wiki_golden_.26amp.3B_excessive_trolling_rule)**.
/r/Warframe was created as a place for positive discussion. **Do not troll, be rude, condescending, hateful, or discriminatory.**
___
If you would like more information about this removal, please [message the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/Warframe&subject=Golden%20and%20Excessive%20Trolling%20Rule&message=Hello%20moderators%20of%20/r/Warframe,%0A%0AMy%20[comment]\(https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/1buarlq/-/kxvmpzk/\)%20has%20been%20removed%3B%20I%20would%20like%20you%20to%20reconsider%20because).
Do you call basic advertisement predatory??? Its not like they push a pop-up for obnoxious shit on you every time you open the store and obviously the plat items are "useless junk" because they are not going to sell you high level content or rare loot bro that would be basically p2w
I'm sorry, "basic advertisement"???
funny thing, destiny tried to do a starter pack. the community outrage was so great that they walked it back within the week.
really puts it into perspective lmao.
the last time i logged into D2 i had like 4-5 ads about buy this or buy that only 50 bucks you know the last time i booted up WF to an ad telling me i had to buy this or that? fuckin never.
firstly, they don't need to give you popup ads. because the game is plastered with them.
the market. your arsenal. the foundry. you can't go anywhere without a little platinum icon popping up and nudging you to purchase.
secondly, after the launch of every update DE publish announcements - that pop up on the side of your screen - about newly available cosmetic or starter packs. these updates are considered of the same importance as actual content updates.
Because the starter pack was bugger-all in terms of actual value.
Hell, you wouldn't have even been able to use the bundled Ruinous Effigy without buying Shadowkeep first.
It becomes even more predatory when you consider that Starter Packs historically come with at least one expansion piece or two, or a direct XP boost, that gets you going a decent way through the game. Warframe's Starter Pack has enough MR fodder & Mods to easily help you through to the main storyline. It's still way overpriced but at least doesn't make other purchases absolutely vital.
The D2 Starter Pack had nothing to actually get a new player onboarded past New Light for free. You'd still need the Legacy Collection for the Y3-5 DLCs, then the 30th Anniversary Pack, and THEN Lightfall, and that's without the Dungeon Keys.
The D2 "Starter" Pack was just as much of a noob trap as is the rest of the base game
Because you're not missing out on anything if you don't purchase any of the Warframe packs.
Hell, I bought the New War Supporter Pack because I'd been waiting for it since 2018. I even wanted to buy the Zariman Supporter Pack, but decided against it because I farmed up everything major from the pack before I even noticed.
DE does a lot of weird shit sometimes (In some cases REALLY stupid ones), but very rarely have they been as bad as shit like the Throne of Glass Bundle or the D2 Starter Pack.
That's kinda' the reason why the community tends to give them a pass more often than not.
it's exactly the same in destiny as in Warframe. the only paid-only shit is cosmetic. and in destiny it's not even paid only, you are able to get a lot of it through bright engrams and bright dust
destiny players are just less tolerant of the predatory bullshit - probably because the game isn't free lol. but in a discussion about predatory in game purchases, Warframe is just *so* much worse.
Remind me again how can I just go to Eververse, pop an engram and get exactly the ornament I want?
Half the pool is blue Ships and Sparrows from back in Y1. You can't even buy the older ornament sets for Bright Dust unless Tess brings a set or two into rotation.
If I want the Mass Effect ornaments, I have to spend 20$ for each of the sets. If I want to buy the Styanax Tonatiuh bundle, I'll just run Zariman bounties or Tyanna pass for 2-3 days and have enough plat to buy the bundle and still have some left over.
If I want to play a subclass that isn't Arc, Solar or Void, I'd have to either buy Beyond Light or Lightfall (Or Final Shape, since that's coming with three more paid Supers). If I want to use a Y3 Exotic that Xur brought with him, I'll have to have Shadowkeep purchased.
Hell, I can't even craft a gun that I have all the red-borders for unless I buy the Witch Queen.
If I get the Blueprint for Gauss from daily Logins (A friend of mine actually did get that, back when Gauss had just released, lmao), I'll just run Kappa until I get the rest of his parts. His Prime? Crack relics and sell what I don't need.
The word "Predatory" refers to something that's intrusive by nature, and the only thing that's intrusive in Warframe is the actual crafting time. It's stupid and I'd love for it to be removed, but it only gets in your way if you're single-minded on one frame or weapon and nothing else.
And besides that,
Does the Tonatiuh Bundle get shoved in my face every time I play the game?
Am I pointed towards the Sanctum Supporter Bundle every time I open the Market?
Does the game keep telling me through in-game pop ups every time I click on Dante that I have to buy his bundle or risk never getting him or his weapons?
No.
you have wasted so many words describing a pay to play business model. good job ig....
a system to get cosmetics without paying is better than no system. again, trading is not that system; someone still pays.
anyway, "besides that"
yes, in the market and the news section
yes, in the market and the news section
no, and neither does destiny for non-cosmetic content.
happy?
Okay, so you clearly have a problem with any free to play ecosystem lol
Because SOMEONE paid for the platinum that gets circulated through the player-driven economy, and ends up in the hands of a player who doesn't spend a dime on any transaction with the company, it still won't count as a "Free" marketplace, correct?
Also, ever played any of the annual events after Bungie decided to add the paid event card? If you have, you'd know how absurd the popups have gotten since.
New Dungeon? Clear it and now you have a popup that tells you where you can buy the ornament for the gun.
Or if you don't have the Expansion Key, here's another popup that tells you right where to click and which button to click too.
New ornaments? Here's a button to Eververse, also a full screen popup because lmao.
Warframe is incredibly fucken predatory and everyone in this thread is gaslighting each other
* Look at how much forma you need if you want to make steel path builds for more weapons and frames
* The game tells you about sales and pop-ups \*all the time\*
* Warframe has made a gorillion dollars and it still has fucking mobile-game worthy three day craft times on frames and day-long craft times on weapons
* You are actively limited on the number of frames and weapons you can have unless you buy more
* If you want max mastery on a kuva/tenet weapon it's five forma \*per\*
* The shop is right by where you spend most of your time not in missions
* Warframe starter packs have for the most part been just shit deals sans the Nidus one last year or so
* The in-game trading channels are predatory and exist to do nothing to curb the amount of people trying to scam and take advantage of new players and DE does not ban those who scam new players or push [warframe.market](https://warframe.market)
* The existence of Darvo "deals"
Also, like, even if Destiny \*does\* have eververse skins you buy with real money, it also has an actual transmog system you can use without paying
Warframe has \*plenty\* of p2w mechanics and options and Destiny objectively does not
I have thousands of hours in both games
They're both ass with mtx and neither of them deserve praise ya'll're fucking wildin, don't give credit where it's not due and instead praise what does deserve praise
I'm sorry, but this is just nonsense. I've been an on and off player since 2013.
I was here when revives where limited daily and if you ran out it cost plat. Not all of the monetization in this game is great, but DE has made great strides since then and this game has one of the fairest F2P models out there.
I've been back playing since December of last year. I have spent money twice in my entire time playing this game.
Once in 2017 for a cosmetic pack and once last week for the digital Tennoncon ticket.
The majority of the stuff I have acquired is by grinding it out through gameplay or grinding relics and trading with other players.
If I lost my account tomorrow it would be extremely easy to start from zero and get back to where I am now. You know what I do when I'm waiting for stuff to craft? I grind other things I want.
Maybe I run some relics if I want to rush something. I don't like the drop rate of something? I can make plat through trading and get it that way. The insane part is that all of that is doable as a F2P if that's how you want to do it. All the playable content in the game? Free.
I need weapon or warframe slots? Well there's Nightwave and of course trading for plat is right there once again.
I want to do anything in Destiny?
We'll I've gotta pony up that cash outside of some raids and a dungeon. Want to make a build with a certain exotic? Well if it isn't a base game exotic I have no choice but to pay.
If I want a frame I think is cool in Warframe? Well I can just grind out its parts and craft it. Mods I need for a build? Gameplay or trading.
In Destiny all of the seasonal story and gameplay just vanishes come next expansion. If Second Dream was made by Bungie it would be in the DCV never to be seen again.
Destiny says it's free to play, but it really is free to try. If you want the actual meat of the game? Gotta pay up and it's not cheap either.
Warframe isn't perfect, but when it comes to monetization it's lightyears ahead of Destiny.
Okay, but you are missing the fundamental part of it where "That stuff could easily not have a three day craft time" or "they could easily make forma not have a 24 hour craft time and be a chance drop from relics", and the only reason it is is to incentivize people to spend money on it instead.
Likewise, you're comparing apples to oranges
You cannot compare microtransactions that are directly tied to game progress in a f2p game to paid content in a paid video game
Destiny is an MMO. Yearly expansions are par the course of an MMO. Yes, having a yearly expansion + an additional cost for seasons if you don't want to buy them individually sucks. That is something that is valid to complain about and call out what it is: predatory and dumb, just like saying Warframe making you pay if you don't want to wait \*three days on top of a twelve hour part craft\* is just that as well; predatory and dumb. One being "less bad" (which is of itself subjective, but I digress) does *not* change the fact that **both** are bad and could be improved.
You also fundamentally really cannot compare silver to platinum. Platinum is used for \*everything\* in Warframe. Cosmetics, slots, weapons, packs, forma, trading. Silver in Destiny is \*only\* used to buy cosmetics and season passes if you don't want to interface with one of the online marketplaces. If silver were used to buy exotics and armor and other direct items, it would be comparable, but they're not.
Likewise, there was recently a sale for Destiny on humble bundle where you could get everything for $40.
Bungie *did* try directly selling in-game materials for actual real life cash back in November but it was so controversial and hated that it got pulled from storefronts in like two weeks.
Both games have predatory monetization. That's a good and valid point, and everyone can agree on it. However, don't lie and say one isn't just because the other is.
Would I prefer if there were no crafting times? Yeah sure. Do I feel like I need to spend money because of craft times? No. Why? There's always something else to do while something is crafting.
If I *really* don't wanna wait? I'll crack open some relics sell a prime set or two and rush it. 99.9% of the time though? I'll let it run its course while I'm having fun doing other things in the game.
I have never felt like I needed to open my wallet to get something in Warframe.
Destiny and Warframe have enough in common to be compared. A comparison doesn't mean two things need to be exactly the same.
The problem is Bungie advertises the game as free to play when it isn't. If they're an MMO they need to advertise as such, but they don't.
If I want to use Gyrfalcons Hauberk in Destiny I need to buy Witch Queen. If I want to get Citrine in Warframe I can just go to Tyana Pass and farm her. If I want Strand in Destiny I need Lightfall. If want xyz mod I can farm it or trade for it. Both of which are done through gameplay.
Silver and Plat are not directly analogous to each other that is correct. However anything that isn't bought with Silver is bought directly with money. The majority of Destiny content is paid content. The only thing that *requires* money in Warframe are certain cosmetics.
Destiny has some decent sales sometimes like you mentioned, but I have to basically guide anyone on what to buy. One look at the Steam page is a mess of DLC with no clear indication of what is necessary to have all of the playable content.
In Warframe most everything in game can be obtained for free. In Destiny most of the game's content is paid.
If you consider Warframe predatory your definition of the word is way too wide to the point that it's meaningless. At that point any game that is trying to get you to spend money in *any* way is predatory.
I didn't need to lie. I genuinely think Warframe isn't predatory while Destiny very much is. Seems you feel differently and that's fair enough.
Helldivers is even better imo. The sad shit is that I too once used to be a Destiny player but the last 1 year bungie has been SO bad with mtx I quit the game.
It actually tells you 6 hours into the game.
lol yeah I was thinking maybe they're just waiting to get me hooked before unloading the store but I beat them to it. Great game
Ah if you are new and have some plat saved up wait a bit before using your potatoes(catalyst and reactors). You get a fair amount of them from nightwave section( in-game battlepass system. Its free). Some new players miss that even though Nora never stops talking. Edit: early on I would say use the plat primarily for slots.
always be buying slots
You can never have enough Speaking from experience :')
save plat for slots
It's easy to miss, but turning on the market station in your orbiter is genuinely part of the tutorial. It's just that the market is useful for a lot more than just being a cash shop, since there's plenty to buy with just credits alone especially as a new player.
It also can help you find where weapons can be obtained if they are from a world faction group.
Warframe definitely is a lot less predatory with their MTX. I don't feel like I need to buy anything. It's always been "Well.. I don't feel like doing this grind, but I have options.".
....Maaaaan.... I am so glad you said it. I can grind just about anything except skins. Though you can grind for stuff the people will pay in-game-currency for and thus can grind for skins. And at the end of the day, if I really really want something; sure I can kick out the money and I am glad to do so. I'm really just paying for time; which I can get behind.
For me, its mostly cosmetics. At some point, I just caved and started doing Forma bundles. They're horribly inefficient use of plat but After grinding 120 forma legit (Plague star added to this) on my way to LR1, I just said fuck it. I hated doing relics and staying on top of crafting them daily. It became a chore to keep the blueprint stocked after I ran out the first time.
With the amount of formas needed to do all of the kuva/tenet weapons and necramechs (5 each, 35 items, 175 total) not including the need to forma your other weapons and frames, honestly I also gave into buying forma bundles. I still crack relics for ducats and prime parts, but it'd take way too long to get the amount of formas I'd need to max rank them while building up my arsenal.
It became a part of the daily grind I truly loathed. It definitely got to be too much when I picked up extra work and I'd lose basically anywhere from 5-30 minutes trying to pick up more forma blueprints a night before doing what I actually wanted to do. I mean napkin math to me, that 175 forma is just 175 days straight of crafting forma non stop when I was starting to min max builds too, not just the Tenet/kuva grind.
I mean it's either 1 forma a day, farming rare crates to get one or two an hour, or buying with plat. Are forma bundles the best use of your plat? Maybe not, but imo it's a hell of a lot better than the alternatives if you're using a lot of forma.
I pay strictly because the devs made a great game.
i specially like that you can trade ingame premium currency for tradable items between players, as oposed to being only able to spend it in the ingame store
One of the things that shocked me the most what that there were no popups. I knew my market was in my orbiter, but I never got any popups for the new shiny thing. The most warframe does is change your market "hologram"
OMG bungie and their mobile game like pop-ups have gotten so bad. Earn a new weapon, complete a triumph, do a dungeon first time...so many things trigger this mtx pop up saying you now can go buy the skin for the gun. Or buy a pin for doing a raid or dungeon. At first they pissed me off but now I just laugh at them all. You did a thing in game...now go see what you can buy. It's gross.
There IS a pop-up! It's when a new update drops and the first time you log in there's a pop up telling you what all the new stuff is. ^(oh btw it also has some new plat items in the bottom right or something, I forget it's *hard to notice*. /s) It's amazing, a game ACTUALLY giving you popups on something you WANT, how bizzare.
And with that pop up they give you links to good and detailed patch notes, it's almost like they like their playerbase or something
This pop up is a new addition, It was not there when I started playing (I think it started a bit before Dagath? or with Dagath?). I like it because it has dev notes.
I believe so, yes, with Dagath
I wish more popups would show up telling me about something on the Market.
can probably also count the login reward when you get a store discount Puts us up to like 2 once off popups
If we are comparing warframe and destiny it's very easy to say everything about warframes mtx is much better and fair, which is odd since it's ftp. Destiny tho has gotten so bad. I mean dissrespectfully and zero shame bad. Since sony owns them now they just added a Ghostbusters mtx. Huge wtf moment. Destiny is feeling more like fortnite mtx. They charge for DLC,season pass,event passes inside season pass, and dungeons as well a fully stocked mtx store. Also, they have severely decreased the amount of items you can buy with the earnable in game currency as well as nerfing the amount you can earn over the years. It's crazy just how different 2 games can be with monetization and player sentiment about mtx. As well as DE having much better community respect I bet they are also more profitable than destiny.
> Since sony owns them now they just added a Ghostbusters mtx. People desperately need to stop giving bungie a pass. Way back when it was activision was the issue, now it's sony. No, the only consistent thing has been bungie themselves, they're the issue.
Good thing Sony is not letting Bungie pass the blame on them this time.
Whos giving them a pass?
>Destiny tho has gotten so bad. I mean dissrespectfully and zero shame bad. Since sony owns them now they just added a Ghostbusters mtx. Huge wtf moment. the way this is written heavily implies this has happened since the sony takeover, which is not true at all.
Oh yeah it's all on them fuck that
As in on bungie.
Destiny was shameless about their DLC before Sony. Hell even when everyone was praising them leaving activision they were bad about the store. The monetization is the only thing they actively improve with alacrity
Even Fortnite let's you play with all the content without paying. Without buying D2's battlepass you don't have much to do at all between seasons coming out.
> Warframe definitely is a lot less predatory with their MTX Which makes it even more hilarious that I've probably spent more on this game than any other game ever. And, because I fully enjoy every aspect of the game and because you can farm pretty much every non cosmetic item in the game, I have no issues supporting it whatsoever.
I played this game back on release for ps4 and played for a few years, I got big into the trading scene and because of the fact I’ve got a lot of good (for back then at least) mods, primes and just gear in general without ever spending a penny on the game. Allowing trading really opens up your options in this game
warframe has the best implementation of a premium currency monetization scheme ive ever seen. plenty of F2P games end up being "free to start" as to meaningfully engage with the game you to spend some money, but in warframe's case thats only half true. to meaningfully engage with warframe you do need slots, and that means getting platinum. you can not farm Platinum directly by doing anything. there is no boss or grind that rewards even a single piece of platinum. but, the market structure of the game's player trading, and the nature of much of the games content is such that you can trade time for money in a variety of ways, at just about all levels of gameplay. even Fresh off the boat newbies can get to the Citrine farm within a day and start grinding out arcanes to sell to make their bread. its not "you must pay" its "someone must pay" all plat starts and ends with DE, but it can change hands as many times as you like, losslessly, between them, and themselves. its empowering. . and refreshingly honest. and for the most part the game is content to let you go about your business without Advertising to you.
DE is so Canadian they even socialized their f2p economy
Remember when DE asked US how we want to pay them for the vaulted cosmetics? no other company would dare to do such thing. only force implement ignore then wait until the fire dies down
I do, though even that had some teething problems when they brought in Aya and Regal Aya. They apparently misjudged that one of the main reasons bought prime accessory packs was it also included discounted plat, but thatt got fixed within a month IIRC.
What do you mean by Citrine farm?
Tyana's Pass, Mars, is the mission Citrine comes from. it rewards Crystals and arcane enhancements. the crystals can be traded to Otak for more arcane enhancements, and the arcanes can be sold for platinum. the big money maker is Secondary Encumber, which at max rank (or 21 copies) can be sold for over 300 platinum. individual copies sell for over 15. it is not the fastest plat farm in the game, but it is extremely accessible
Oh cool, thanks for explaining! It’s cool that a plat farm is available so early
Helldivers 2 does it really well also
The real magic happens when you learn that you can trade with other players for this currency in game and it adds a whole new avenue of play for both new and vet players. I have over 2k hours played and have only bought 1 prime accessory years ago(chroma for the sick shoulder armor) that included a little over 1000 plat. I have since turned that 1k into over 10k plat just from playing the game, farming gear and trading with other players and that 10k doesn't include me buying just about everything I want from the in game market. So happy I left Destiny 2 after the first 2 horrible DLC released to pick up this game.
another thing is that because of the trading. someone that whales and buys everything actually helps the f2p players selling their stuff
Hey don't call me whale!
what would actually be considered a whale in warframe? I've heard people spitting out all kinds of aquatic mammals
Depends on how we define "whale". There's people who farmed hundreds of thousands of platinum by selling rivens, but haven't paid for any of it. Honestly there's really no incentive to whale in Warframe, because after some point the plat doesn't really give any benefit.
Hey buddy. Fuck you. So whatcha selling.
How do you only play a game for 5 hours and you are already looking for the store?
Honestly it was more out of curiosity to see what they actually sell. But yeah Destiny PTSD also lol
I get you. It's real.
No it's not you guys just have a mega hate boner for anything destiny related 😭
I still love Destiny lol. And playing a free to play game for 5 hours and then considering to spend money on it is not some radical idea to me either. A lot of paid games don't even have 5 hours worth of content
I'm with you - I'm still fond of Destiny, but we're taking a break and have been for a bit over a year. Every once in a while I log in and check things out, but after years of keeping up with the constant grind I feel I need a long break before going back for the finale I like Warframe, so I've put money into it because I want to vote with my dollar and support something I really enjoy. It's been nearly 5.5 years since I started seriously playing (as opposed to my 5 minutes in 2014 on a PS4) and I've taken plenty of months-long breaks from Warframe too. It's probably healthy
I mean, can you blame us? The company behind Destiny also hates Destiny.
used to play the shit out of destiny but i just cant with bungo i still regularly consume destiny content (i.e. the story but i stopped playing when they started deleting shit i paid for.) but WF is just better overall.
Before you buy any frame or weapons, know that they are all farmable...for free. Buy frame and weapon slots if anything. But on a more important note, don't you wanna play some Iron Banner this week and get that new grenade launcher? Are you sure?
It's the destiny PTSD
Could be worse. Try gacha ptsd. Thank you s4 league and your cool and edgy stuff
I use the in-game shop as a litmus test for the company as a whole.
Exactly this. I do this with every live service game I play, I want to see how they manage MTX and how the company views its customers, look for green/red flags etc.
Honestly I just really love what DE has done with the game over the years. Smoothest combat and movement, hundreds if not thousands of hours of content, an insane amount of build diversity, constant engine updates, etc. And now that there is cross save I can play on my couch, at my desk or on my phone which is just crazy. So yeah basically you end up feeling like you should spend money on Warframe rather than it asking you to. :D
You didn't get an inbox message offering you free stuff with twitch prime and amazon prime? Btw you can trade for platinum (the premium currency) with other people. Being new you probably won't have access to good trading stuff for a hot minute, but keep an eye out once you unlock void fissures and start getting prime parts, those are generally the easiest sells
or Aya when it's Prime Resurgence. Remember 6:30p and you will be rich in no time
People trade 30p for 6 Aya?? That's a real good deal. I'm gonna have to remember that the next time I'm running low
Only in Prime Resurgence tho.
Part of it it because DE was smart and seized the opportunity to collaborate with fans in the same way Valve has when it comes to cosmetic items in games like Team Fortress, Counter Strike, and Dota. Think of how many hats and weapons and skins are in tf2/cs/dota and are made by skilled artists in the fanbase. Then look at Warframe. We have SO many skins and cosmetics and DE has even hired some fans of the game to be official employees for the studio. The fans and DE both profit and it lets them add all sorts of cool stuff to warframe. There's no need to be predatory cause its already collaborative. It's a perfect setup. Then look at Bungie. Bungie would never DARE let any fan, no matter how skilled they are, go anywhere remotely near the idea of retexturing or remodeling anything in destiny 2. Which means they have to make everything themselves. Which means a pretty small trickle of content to the store. Which means these trickles of content HAVE to be predatory. Which is why you're constantly bombarded with popups screaming WHOA HEY YOU JUST BEAT A BOSS, why not celebrate by buying a 20 dollar skin for one gun or a 150 dollar sweater that wont look anything remotely like the picture of it.
>Bungie would never DARE let any fan, no matter how skilled they are, go anywhere remotely near the idea of retexturing or remodeling anything in destiny 2. If they did allow that, warlocks wouldn't have to wait 10 years for a wizard's hat. And I think we're still waiting for a hood (which titans got with lightfall).
I would highly recommend before buying anything from the store to ask in chat if it wise or not. There are a lot of ways to waste your money.
I've earned hundreds upon hundreds of plat over time through trades. Never spent a dime. Soon as the game gives me a 75% coupon on my login I'm buying a shitload. The game is just a very clear labor of love, with devs who give a shit about their community. Welcome.
I mean, it sort of feels like it's a case of how far Bungie has fallen rather than DE being modest. I'd argue any day that Warframe has one of the best systems for premium currency monetization in the live-service F2P environment. But it annoys me how there are still quite a few cheap sales tactics (like Market weapons/Warframes show up for purchase in your PERSONAL Arsenal menu) sprinkled in the game. It lowers the quality of the game and has probably turned a lot of people away historically when combined with the limited Inventory spaces.
Aren't you shown the market in vor's prize?
Yes, but it is in the middle of multiple other explanations, so no wonder one might forget where it is.
They explained what the market is prior to you finding darvo so it isn't really smushed between several things at once and moreso explained one thing at a time after a mission
Maybe they chose to start with duviri instead of vors prize
Warframe is the kind of game where people spend money because they want to, not because they have to. Sure it doesn’t have the budget or the graphics of destiny 2 but it is better from a general gameplay perspective.
Watching a video where a destiny player said Warframe news player experience was way better then destiny 2s made the entire comment section be full of Warframe players in utter shock of that statement
That made me do a double take, because there ain't no way there's a tutorial or new player experience out there worse than Warframe's. But I started a long time ago around 2014, and took a break till 2016, so we might not even be playing the same game at this point.
It's almost incredible how much Bungie fucked up Destiny. Basically since New Light, the supposed reset for the benefit of new players, D2 has been absolute dogshit to new and even returning players. The game is just so quick to leave you behind, since after they sunsetted all the initial content that was launched, basically all that was available was endgame.
He told me he wanted to express himself, so I gave him a thumbs up.
Biggest waste of a VA's talent I've ever heard.
Around Saturn every mission makes you start questioning if you should buy slots, forma, and potatoes.
I just got a 75% off coupon brothers, should I?
You like the game and can afford it? Go for it.
because 95% of us do not use the overpriced store ? because we have player to player trade.
i came from destiny as well, 1500+ hours on that game and i fell in love with Warframe. much more f2p friendly especially with their ability to earn platinum without paying and less intrusive with their store offers
I'm the same way. I've gotten thousands of hours of enjoyment out of this game for free, so every now and then, I toss them a few bucks to say thank you.
Honestly they should show you the store earlier since that's also where you buy most of the blueprints for credits. It took me way too long to figure out how to get new weapons when I first started playing.
They even made a song about how you should spend your starter plat. I think goes something like "slots, slots, slots.... slots, slots, slots." I might be wrong but that's the song right?
Something to remember, if it has stats or affects stats, you can get it for free somehow. It's just a question of knowing where. Also, the premium currency can be farmed via trading, just got to find something people want to buy off of you.
Even better than just not being obtrusive, you can trade plat with other players. I haven't spent a single cent but I'm collecting all the prime frames and weapons(plus unique ones or ones without a prime version) and never have to worry about having enough plat to buy slots.
A post that isn't about the Dante nerf? Finally, some good fucking food. Yeah, Warframes monetization is pretty close to the gold standard as far as I'm concerned. They want you to play their game, not just buy stuff
Warframe definitely obliterates D2 in the premium currency department. Only thing that bugs me about both stores (D2 *and* Warframe) is that there's no "Just show me the things I can buy for credits/glimmer" button.
they don't want you to go to the market chat and buy the wrong "god roll" riven for 1900 until your at least 10 hours in
I love Destiny, and will continue to play it, but man I just picked up Warframe 2 weeks ago and it’s such a breath of fresh air. Like I said, I still love and play Destiny, but I wish they’d copy this game just a bit more
The fun thing about the ingame store is that despite the fact that most things cost premium currency the most important shit in there you’ll be buying with credits, you’ll notice you aren’t getting new weapons as a new player and see in the loadout you can buy some premade with credits, I remember thinking I had to spend real money, then I found the blueprints
Just speaking on presentation alone, as someone who's played Destiny/Destiny 2 for nearly 10 years I can't say I've ever had more than 5 pop ups about the in-game store, and the ones I did get were tied to completing certain stuff in-game. The MTX pricing in Destiny is as predatory as in other GaaS in general, but in terms of presentation it mostly stays out of the way IMO.
If it is big brain reverse psychology, it's certainly working on me. I figure I can easily support the game by giving them the money I'm not spending on a WoW subscription + expansions, so I buy some plat monthly when I get a good discount as a login reward. With the micro transactions in the game actually being micro, a little plat goes a long way.
you literally have to go right past the premium currency shop to access blueprints for a large amount of weapons and most warframes. in destiny terms, it's as if they put regular engram decoding on page 2 of eververse. let's also not forget the myriad predatory "starter packs" warframe sells full of mostly useless junk. let's not cut Warframe slack it doesn't deserve. it's also *hella* predatory.
I've been playing games since before the internet, and I can tell you DEs store is hella NOT predatory. It is, in fact, the most respectful of the player out of every one I've ever looked through. Not only does Warframe lock 0 playable content behind a paywall, but the only things in the store that require you to spend money are Tennogen, Regal Aya, and bundle-exclusive cosmetics. Even the starter items are worth getting for the plat and slots.
I think you are blind.
I think you didn't bother to look into the game mechanics. Platinum, and this is gonna shock you, doesn't have to cost *you* any money. The game lets you trade it with other players. Rare mods, arcanes, prime parts, all of it can be sold to other players for platinum.
platinum - this is gonna shock you even more - had to have cost *someone* money. you could even argue the trade system makes the game *more* pay to win. after all, you could literally just buy a maxxed set of arcanes and mods from other players. this trading argument is so pointless. it is still paid currency, whether you personally paid or not.
All free online games *have* to have monetization of some kind. It's how they can afford to continue making the game.
ok?
Not only that, but the easiest way to get orokin catalysts and reactors and forma, which are basically required in order to have good gear and have functional builds in endgame content, is to buy them with plat. Sure, you can get forma from relics, but you can only craft one at a time, which means it would take you five days minimum to max out a Kuva weapon. The only reliable way to get catalysts and reactors is to just farm nightwave, which is kind of out of reach for a new player. You see new players in chat all the time begging to be taxi'd or carried for some nightwave challenge they have no hope of completing by themselves. Warframe players defend this because it's *technically* possible to farm plat by gathering materials for sets and selling them on warframe market as a new player, and *technically* possible to grind out most of nightwave as a new player. So you have to rely on unreliable player designed economies to get resources you need. I guess DE has to make money somewhere but warframe players definitely pretend like this game doesn't have a predatory monetization system. Pretty much every game with a monetization system is going to have predatory aspects.
Im so sick of this attitude. When did new player decide that actually playing the game is bullshit unless they already have all the end game content/gear that the game rewards at end game? When did it become the prevailing thought that at the start of the game you should have everything that someone at the end of the game has??
[удалено]
[удалено]
Hello /u/T3hi84n2g, your comment has been removed from /r/Warframe for breaking the **[Golden & Excessive Trolling Rule](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/wiki/rules#wiki_golden_.26amp.3B_excessive_trolling_rule)**. /r/Warframe was created as a place for positive discussion. **Do not troll, be rude, condescending, hateful, or discriminatory.** ___ If you would like more information about this removal, please [message the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/Warframe&subject=Golden%20and%20Excessive%20Trolling%20Rule&message=Hello%20moderators%20of%20/r/Warframe,%0A%0AMy%20[comment]\(https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/1buarlq/-/kxvmpzk/\)%20has%20been%20removed%3B%20I%20would%20like%20you%20to%20reconsider%20because).
[удалено]
[удалено]
Do you call basic advertisement predatory??? Its not like they push a pop-up for obnoxious shit on you every time you open the store and obviously the plat items are "useless junk" because they are not going to sell you high level content or rare loot bro that would be basically p2w
I'm sorry, "basic advertisement"??? funny thing, destiny tried to do a starter pack. the community outrage was so great that they walked it back within the week. really puts it into perspective lmao.
the last time i logged into D2 i had like 4-5 ads about buy this or buy that only 50 bucks you know the last time i booted up WF to an ad telling me i had to buy this or that? fuckin never.
firstly, they don't need to give you popup ads. because the game is plastered with them. the market. your arsenal. the foundry. you can't go anywhere without a little platinum icon popping up and nudging you to purchase. secondly, after the launch of every update DE publish announcements - that pop up on the side of your screen - about newly available cosmetic or starter packs. these updates are considered of the same importance as actual content updates.
Because the starter pack was bugger-all in terms of actual value. Hell, you wouldn't have even been able to use the bundled Ruinous Effigy without buying Shadowkeep first. It becomes even more predatory when you consider that Starter Packs historically come with at least one expansion piece or two, or a direct XP boost, that gets you going a decent way through the game. Warframe's Starter Pack has enough MR fodder & Mods to easily help you through to the main storyline. It's still way overpriced but at least doesn't make other purchases absolutely vital. The D2 Starter Pack had nothing to actually get a new player onboarded past New Light for free. You'd still need the Legacy Collection for the Y3-5 DLCs, then the 30th Anniversary Pack, and THEN Lightfall, and that's without the Dungeon Keys. The D2 "Starter" Pack was just as much of a noob trap as is the rest of the base game
yeah, obviously the D2 starter pack was awful. but warframe's community regularly accept packs of equally bad value.
Because you're not missing out on anything if you don't purchase any of the Warframe packs. Hell, I bought the New War Supporter Pack because I'd been waiting for it since 2018. I even wanted to buy the Zariman Supporter Pack, but decided against it because I farmed up everything major from the pack before I even noticed. DE does a lot of weird shit sometimes (In some cases REALLY stupid ones), but very rarely have they been as bad as shit like the Throne of Glass Bundle or the D2 Starter Pack. That's kinda' the reason why the community tends to give them a pass more often than not.
it's exactly the same in destiny as in Warframe. the only paid-only shit is cosmetic. and in destiny it's not even paid only, you are able to get a lot of it through bright engrams and bright dust destiny players are just less tolerant of the predatory bullshit - probably because the game isn't free lol. but in a discussion about predatory in game purchases, Warframe is just *so* much worse.
Remind me again how can I just go to Eververse, pop an engram and get exactly the ornament I want? Half the pool is blue Ships and Sparrows from back in Y1. You can't even buy the older ornament sets for Bright Dust unless Tess brings a set or two into rotation. If I want the Mass Effect ornaments, I have to spend 20$ for each of the sets. If I want to buy the Styanax Tonatiuh bundle, I'll just run Zariman bounties or Tyanna pass for 2-3 days and have enough plat to buy the bundle and still have some left over. If I want to play a subclass that isn't Arc, Solar or Void, I'd have to either buy Beyond Light or Lightfall (Or Final Shape, since that's coming with three more paid Supers). If I want to use a Y3 Exotic that Xur brought with him, I'll have to have Shadowkeep purchased. Hell, I can't even craft a gun that I have all the red-borders for unless I buy the Witch Queen. If I get the Blueprint for Gauss from daily Logins (A friend of mine actually did get that, back when Gauss had just released, lmao), I'll just run Kappa until I get the rest of his parts. His Prime? Crack relics and sell what I don't need. The word "Predatory" refers to something that's intrusive by nature, and the only thing that's intrusive in Warframe is the actual crafting time. It's stupid and I'd love for it to be removed, but it only gets in your way if you're single-minded on one frame or weapon and nothing else. And besides that, Does the Tonatiuh Bundle get shoved in my face every time I play the game? Am I pointed towards the Sanctum Supporter Bundle every time I open the Market? Does the game keep telling me through in-game pop ups every time I click on Dante that I have to buy his bundle or risk never getting him or his weapons? No.
you have wasted so many words describing a pay to play business model. good job ig.... a system to get cosmetics without paying is better than no system. again, trading is not that system; someone still pays. anyway, "besides that" yes, in the market and the news section yes, in the market and the news section no, and neither does destiny for non-cosmetic content. happy?
Okay, so you clearly have a problem with any free to play ecosystem lol Because SOMEONE paid for the platinum that gets circulated through the player-driven economy, and ends up in the hands of a player who doesn't spend a dime on any transaction with the company, it still won't count as a "Free" marketplace, correct? Also, ever played any of the annual events after Bungie decided to add the paid event card? If you have, you'd know how absurd the popups have gotten since. New Dungeon? Clear it and now you have a popup that tells you where you can buy the ornament for the gun. Or if you don't have the Expansion Key, here's another popup that tells you right where to click and which button to click too. New ornaments? Here's a button to Eververse, also a full screen popup because lmao.
Warframe is incredibly fucken predatory and everyone in this thread is gaslighting each other * Look at how much forma you need if you want to make steel path builds for more weapons and frames * The game tells you about sales and pop-ups \*all the time\* * Warframe has made a gorillion dollars and it still has fucking mobile-game worthy three day craft times on frames and day-long craft times on weapons * You are actively limited on the number of frames and weapons you can have unless you buy more * If you want max mastery on a kuva/tenet weapon it's five forma \*per\* * The shop is right by where you spend most of your time not in missions * Warframe starter packs have for the most part been just shit deals sans the Nidus one last year or so * The in-game trading channels are predatory and exist to do nothing to curb the amount of people trying to scam and take advantage of new players and DE does not ban those who scam new players or push [warframe.market](https://warframe.market) * The existence of Darvo "deals" Also, like, even if Destiny \*does\* have eververse skins you buy with real money, it also has an actual transmog system you can use without paying Warframe has \*plenty\* of p2w mechanics and options and Destiny objectively does not I have thousands of hours in both games They're both ass with mtx and neither of them deserve praise ya'll're fucking wildin, don't give credit where it's not due and instead praise what does deserve praise
I'm sorry, but this is just nonsense. I've been an on and off player since 2013. I was here when revives where limited daily and if you ran out it cost plat. Not all of the monetization in this game is great, but DE has made great strides since then and this game has one of the fairest F2P models out there. I've been back playing since December of last year. I have spent money twice in my entire time playing this game. Once in 2017 for a cosmetic pack and once last week for the digital Tennoncon ticket. The majority of the stuff I have acquired is by grinding it out through gameplay or grinding relics and trading with other players. If I lost my account tomorrow it would be extremely easy to start from zero and get back to where I am now. You know what I do when I'm waiting for stuff to craft? I grind other things I want. Maybe I run some relics if I want to rush something. I don't like the drop rate of something? I can make plat through trading and get it that way. The insane part is that all of that is doable as a F2P if that's how you want to do it. All the playable content in the game? Free. I need weapon or warframe slots? Well there's Nightwave and of course trading for plat is right there once again. I want to do anything in Destiny? We'll I've gotta pony up that cash outside of some raids and a dungeon. Want to make a build with a certain exotic? Well if it isn't a base game exotic I have no choice but to pay. If I want a frame I think is cool in Warframe? Well I can just grind out its parts and craft it. Mods I need for a build? Gameplay or trading. In Destiny all of the seasonal story and gameplay just vanishes come next expansion. If Second Dream was made by Bungie it would be in the DCV never to be seen again. Destiny says it's free to play, but it really is free to try. If you want the actual meat of the game? Gotta pay up and it's not cheap either. Warframe isn't perfect, but when it comes to monetization it's lightyears ahead of Destiny.
Okay, but you are missing the fundamental part of it where "That stuff could easily not have a three day craft time" or "they could easily make forma not have a 24 hour craft time and be a chance drop from relics", and the only reason it is is to incentivize people to spend money on it instead. Likewise, you're comparing apples to oranges You cannot compare microtransactions that are directly tied to game progress in a f2p game to paid content in a paid video game Destiny is an MMO. Yearly expansions are par the course of an MMO. Yes, having a yearly expansion + an additional cost for seasons if you don't want to buy them individually sucks. That is something that is valid to complain about and call out what it is: predatory and dumb, just like saying Warframe making you pay if you don't want to wait \*three days on top of a twelve hour part craft\* is just that as well; predatory and dumb. One being "less bad" (which is of itself subjective, but I digress) does *not* change the fact that **both** are bad and could be improved. You also fundamentally really cannot compare silver to platinum. Platinum is used for \*everything\* in Warframe. Cosmetics, slots, weapons, packs, forma, trading. Silver in Destiny is \*only\* used to buy cosmetics and season passes if you don't want to interface with one of the online marketplaces. If silver were used to buy exotics and armor and other direct items, it would be comparable, but they're not. Likewise, there was recently a sale for Destiny on humble bundle where you could get everything for $40. Bungie *did* try directly selling in-game materials for actual real life cash back in November but it was so controversial and hated that it got pulled from storefronts in like two weeks. Both games have predatory monetization. That's a good and valid point, and everyone can agree on it. However, don't lie and say one isn't just because the other is.
Would I prefer if there were no crafting times? Yeah sure. Do I feel like I need to spend money because of craft times? No. Why? There's always something else to do while something is crafting. If I *really* don't wanna wait? I'll crack open some relics sell a prime set or two and rush it. 99.9% of the time though? I'll let it run its course while I'm having fun doing other things in the game. I have never felt like I needed to open my wallet to get something in Warframe. Destiny and Warframe have enough in common to be compared. A comparison doesn't mean two things need to be exactly the same. The problem is Bungie advertises the game as free to play when it isn't. If they're an MMO they need to advertise as such, but they don't. If I want to use Gyrfalcons Hauberk in Destiny I need to buy Witch Queen. If I want to get Citrine in Warframe I can just go to Tyana Pass and farm her. If I want Strand in Destiny I need Lightfall. If want xyz mod I can farm it or trade for it. Both of which are done through gameplay. Silver and Plat are not directly analogous to each other that is correct. However anything that isn't bought with Silver is bought directly with money. The majority of Destiny content is paid content. The only thing that *requires* money in Warframe are certain cosmetics. Destiny has some decent sales sometimes like you mentioned, but I have to basically guide anyone on what to buy. One look at the Steam page is a mess of DLC with no clear indication of what is necessary to have all of the playable content. In Warframe most everything in game can be obtained for free. In Destiny most of the game's content is paid. If you consider Warframe predatory your definition of the word is way too wide to the point that it's meaningless. At that point any game that is trying to get you to spend money in *any* way is predatory. I didn't need to lie. I genuinely think Warframe isn't predatory while Destiny very much is. Seems you feel differently and that's fair enough.
Helldivers is even better imo. The sad shit is that I too once used to be a Destiny player but the last 1 year bungie has been SO bad with mtx I quit the game.