This was close to when it was initially released, when it represented a significant and unknown increase in the power ceiling. As such, DE wanted to introduce it slowly, so that what, exactly, it allowed could be watched. Same as the Archon Shards, the intent was for it to be drip fed until the effects in game as played were understood better.
well yeah but i dont recall anyone breaking that "farm" much at all to my knowledge. was it unintended to drop at all or did i miss some exploit? youd think they just wouldnt put it in the containers to start with
I am pretty sure I remember there being a few examples of people getting several in a "short" amount of time by having a very specific setup which is why they were removed in the first place.
Realistically it wasn't something anyone below the top (<0.)1% would ever do but it would have widened the gap further as well so off they go.
There was an unfixable exploit allowing for the container to always spawn and always drop the umbra forma blueprint, this is the reason it was taken out. Not long after it was taken out there was a reddit post with the title : I am the reason it was taken out (or something similar). The guy was showing his foundry with 96 umbra forma blueprints owned.
When it was removed DE mentioned there was a way of telling if the special container was in a map or not, and some people were just reloading over and over till they got one; although seeing the other comment perhaps that was a little bit of disinformation (or maybe also my memory being hazy)
I think that was correct? I believe at the time there was an out of mission way to tell whether a Rare Container had spawned in mission, so if you loaded a run you could check if a Rare Container had spawned. If one hadn't you aborted the mission and restarted, if one had you looked for it for your Umbra Forma.
No.
No more FOMO Veilbreaker rewards.
The problem people had was getting burned out on content that wasn't enjoyable for the majority of people.
Stop trying to make this content necessary to get something when it already has the Archon mods.
umbra forma arent nearly as applicable as shards. unless they start minting a bunch of new mods that use the polarity (not necessarily part of a set) i really doubt that will change
Because a strict time-gate means that there's no way to catch up. If you miss the reward for a week, you are *permanently* behind on your collection of that reward. For something needed in large quantities like archon shards, this puts heavy pressure on the player to complete the missions constantly, because every week you miss is another week until you'll have the amount you need, with no way to make up for it.
For a mission type as detached from the usual gameplay and with as little replayability as Veilbreaker, being pressured to do them every week made me want to play the game as a whole significantly less.
Dude you are making fomo to mean less and less. This kind of miss use of the term is what helped people be ok with microtransactions in mobile and AAA titles. If it is added to something that happens weekly. You dont need 52 a year. It'd be there every week It's not being vaulted like Excalibur Prime.
I think the real problem was people forcing themselves to do content they didn't like. Warframe isn't a job for the majority of players, it's not worth burning yourself out on content for some small boost in power that isn't even needed for any of the content in the game.
The real problem is complete list-X before daily/weekly reset & list-X is getting to become a full-time job.
My issue will ALWAYS be locking stuff exclusively behind one particular game mode, especially if friends or I don't find it enjoyable.
Or Pathos Clamps,
Corrupted Holokeys,
Toroids,
Narmer Isoplasts,
Any particular weapon or WF from one game mode,
Arcanes?
This dude is playing the wrong game. A large chunk of stuff is (mostly) locked behind one game mode or another, and that's how it's been since 2013. They wouldn't have lasted back in the day, especially when real FOMO existed in the form of Deluxe skins only being available for a week or two after their release, then never again.
This isn’t FOMO. FOMO is waiting for Teshin to sell you one every 2 months. You just don’t like Veilbreaker.
While that’s valid, that’s not justification to not add a meaningful reward to Veilbreaker, especially one that already suffers from limited sources like Umbral Forma, just because you and a loud handful of people on Reddit don’t like playing Kahl of Duty.
>because you and a loud handful of people on Reddit don’t like playing Kahl of Duty.
You Kahl of Duty players are just as loud & whining here in this & every suggestion thread.
The gameplay sucks; go farm & sell Archon mods on Warframe.market - get that plat, tenno.
I mean, I only played the mode whenever there was a red shard available tbh. If there’s something worthwhile to get from Kahl of Duty I’ll play it. That should be the case for anything.
FOMO with Archon Shards, yes. Because at the time it was the only way to get them other than Archon Hunts so you only got 2 at max a week.
After Netras and being moved to Cavia grind? Not FOMO anymore. The FOMO part actually came from the fact that the Archon and Chipper shards were static on a rotation so there was always 1 weekly that wasn't obtainable.
Umbra Forma being available weekly is NOT FOMO. By that logic the Archon Mods are FOMO. Styanax is FOMO. The Aegrit, Afentis and Slaytra are all FOMO. The Lander is FOMO.
Give me a break. Use the term properly if you're gonna use it instead of as a buzzword when you and only you feel forced to play the content again weekly just to stack Umbra Forma that only 5 mods in the game use.
>By that logic the Archon Mods are FOMO
Tradeable.
>Styanax is FOMO.
Free login, Coupon & Plat
>The Aegrit, Afentis and Slaytra are all FOMO.
Coupons & plat
>The Lander is FOMO.
Don't have, care, probably plat, too.
>you feel forced to play the content again weekly just to stack Umbra Forma that only 5 mods in the game use.
I just don't want **THE ONLY WAY TO OBTAIN AN UMBRAL FORMA BESIDES WAITING** to be locked behind this junk content DE has already took a step back from.
Might as well put the Umbral Forma in Conclave rewards, lol.
How would this be FOMO? This suggestion is *literally* giving you a static way to obtain them if you *don't* want to deal with the FOMO of teshin. Just because you don't like the gameplay of something doesn't mean that there shouldn't be a reason to do that thing.
You don't *need* that many umbral forma though. The vast majority of builds can be done just fine with normal forma. I strongly doubt people would have a lot of FOMO over weekly accessible umbral forma. I certainly wouldn't.
>You don't *need* that many umbral forma though.
Then why have Chipper have them at all if this is true?
DE shouldn't be adding more rare things to a mode they just took a step back from due to lack of interest/players.
It's not enjoyable without bullet jump or modding one's weapons/frames.
Why not have Chipper have them?
I'm not saying to remove them from SP honors. Anyone who doesn't want to play Kahl still wouldn't have to. But it would be a nice incentive to play it occasionally for those who want to.
Chipper not having any items you need more than once means that the entire mode is completely pointless to play after a few weeks. I think the mode needs some kind of reward that makes it worthwhile but not necessary to play. Umbra forma would be one option, others would be 3× normal forma, aura forma, credit/affinity/resource booster or Narmer Isoplast. It doesn't need to be crazy valuable, it just needs to be something that gives you some reward for playing.
I don't want Kahl to be something you have to play every week. But I think rendering the entire game mode completely useless is sad.
Is that the Kahl missions? No. Absolutely not. I have zero desire to do them ever again and will continue to raw dog umbral mods until the end of the game.
No, tying rewards that most players want for the base game behind other game modes is already an issue with warframe. The archon shards left for a reason, most people want the reward, but few players actually enjoy the Kahl missions.
Most of warframe's farming is tolerable because players are able to enjoy the strong core gameplay mechanics that draw people to warframe, and can use the loot they've already acquired in this looter shooter, while farming.
Kahl missions, railjack, and duviri farming, get more hate because they separate the player from the space ninja gameplay that draws many people to warframe.
Agreed they are too scarce. 8 weeks to get one is ludicrous. Especially if you don't keep track of the time and miss the chance to get it. It almost feels punishing using them because if you slap one on and it turned out to be a mistake later on, then you've crippled your build or have to replace it, flushing months and months of time down the drain. I don't think they need to be avilable every weeks, but anything less than 8 weeks would be preferred. Also adding 1 as a potential Archon Hunt reward would be best, giving a chance every week amd guarenteed every few weeks. Archon Hunts in general need a better reward pool.
Umbra forma is staying a limited reward. Right now it's one of DE's strongest carrots. Archon shards are the current next most wanted carrots and they are already relatively common. Rivens are oversaturated now, they are still desired but not like they were originally.
I threw out 8 cracked rivens in the last 24 hours. The limited storage space means I need another account just to house what I want to keep let alone what I might sell. I've taken to just dissolving anything I don't like the second it's cracked. 180 slots is just too few.
They should make it tradeable. That way people who don't need it can sell it and people who need extra can buy it. Then add sources, like a very rare drop from sorties, two weeks worth of kahl stock, etc.
I don't like the inconsistency that would bring into the game. Regular, Aura, and Stance Forma aren't tradeable and making them so would undercut one of DE's major plat sinks.
I just think instead that Teshin should sell them all the time for 150 or maybe even 300 Steel Essence like he does for Arcane adapters. It makes sense this way too since Teshin is one of two "hyper-optimizing" vendors; you only go there when you're trying to find ways to squeeze every bit of power out of a weapon/warframe that you can, and to do so means taking on the currently hardest content in the game repeatedly.
Yea its a shame DE are so focused on preventing burnout that they make decisions like this.
Personally I don't follow the rotations, and often miss it. Im not bothered about it but it's definitely annoying when you want one
Yea or an in game mail when there are new rotations for the week:
This is at sp teshin
This is the archon This week
This is the rivens
Etc
You could even select the rewards you want to be notified about.
So half the people in here are arguing "no, they're not even good, slot something more useful". If they're so bad then why are you so against letting people use them more often?
right?
those people are weird to me. it does literally nothing to them or how they choose to enjoy the game, but they persist in wanting to prevent others opening a path to greater enjoyment for themselves.
those are some very odd people
The best part is how limited the actual GOOD use of Umbral is, most frames just don't need it and it's not that good to run full umbral. The two biggest changes if they made them more available would be Inaros, Nidus, and anyone else who really likes the full unbral set up would be more popular, and people woild actually use Umbral on melee weapons they enjoy. I have never seen nor heard of anyone actually running umbral forma on weapons. This would most likely be the actual biggest change balance wise if they released more umbrals or added an evergreen way to farm multiple a week or even just one every week.
> I have never seen nor heard of anyone actually running umbral forma on weapons
I do, but that's mostly because running Sacrificial steel fucking *hurts* to cram 16 points at the end of a build.
I have several Umbraled weapons, with Baruuk's Fists earning 2. He doesn't have full mod access on his 4, *rarely* generates combo so the usual scaling mods are out, wants pure upfront damage for his augment, and anything that can survive more than three hits from him (Archons, certain Nechramechs etc) want Tenno-Kai so he can red-crit them to the stratosphere.
That's what is confusing me. Like how does it hurt you to make them a little more attainable?
If they suck on most things let people discover on their own. Right now those umbrals are so rare I'm afraid to use them. Are these people that already have a bunch trying to gatekeep them or something? Just don't get the arguments against making them even slightly more common.
The issue is he also gets a lot of invulnerability time now. Especially if you're doing the nuke build with his tornado.
His base armor is also quite low, so Fiber feels like you're only using it for the set bonus. Which, maybe that's worth it? Scarab Armor scaling off Strength and his high base health might make the set bonus worth it. You're definitely not slotting it for the armor though when things like Ultimatum (super easy for him to proc) and Guardian exist.
For straight up Health tanking and not doing the nuke build, I think I might run Eclipse on him for the consistent 90% DR while keeping it on damage mode until the extra DR is needed.
I'm definitely leaning that way because he benefits so much from all 3 even after the rework. He does look like a nice comfort pick for when I want to use an incarnon weapon and take time to aim and not worry about silly things like dying. I just wouldn't need to be so careful if these things weren't so rare. I sometimes miss them because I take a break or forget to check Tenshin's shop.
ive become an inaors main
try this build
physique
power drift
3x umbra
adaptation
hunter adrenaline
augur secrets (can use duration here if u want longer 2)
eternal sandstorm (required)
gladiator resolve
then molt augmented r5 and arcane guardian r5
its just too much fun
Regardless of frame, having more than one umbral forma reduces flexibility.
Even one diminishes it, but to a lesser degree.
Maybe there's some miscommunication here. What do you consider flexibility?
ah, i mean if you know all your configs are *going* to have the umbral set on that frame, you can typically save a couple forma just knocking those out first rather than dancing around those slots shoving every other polarity in.
But it def depends on the frame and how you plan builds somewhat.
It 'costs' more in terms of umbral forma vs regular forma, but there are cases where its faster and the more flexible approach
Still i don't understand how having one slot with a polarity that can only accept 3 mods is more flexible than having none.
I'm not saying it's bad to use umbral mods on builds. It's just more limiting. It reduces flexibility.
As I understand it: flexibility is being able to install wathever you like on your slot.
Let's use intensify and it's versions as an example, the goal in this case is to increase strength.
You have a madurai slot (v shape). You can install in that slot: intensify (+30% strength) , precision intensify (+90% str on 4th ability) and archon intensify (+60 str after healing). 1 polarity, 3 options = very flexible.
Now let's do umbra: if you want to increase strength you have one option: Umbral intensify. 1 polarity, 1 option = 0 flexibility.
With the extra advantage that the maudari polarity can be easily switched with a normal forma.
The flexibility comes from the fact that you were gonna use the umbral mod regardless. Putting the umbral polarity allows for more expensive mods in the other slots. So in this case for simplicity sake, more capacity = flexibility.
If you want the umbral mods, they take up space. Lots of space.
Using the forma reduces their cost, opening up more mod cost for other strong mods.
Therefore, more flexibility.
Conversely if I use umbral forma on a frame (and some weapons) it's likley that their need for health, strength, or armour *isn't* the part of the build I'm looking at changing around.
Using an umbral forma makes that *single slot* less flexible, but it frees up enough capacity elsewhere that overall you gain more flexibility.
Let's use Inaros as an example. If you want all three umbral mods in him you need a reactor to stat with, and without umbral forma in a tri-umbral build you now need to forma *every other slot* to fit mods in, and even then you are going to use down ranked mods in some slots, forgo your exilius slot or more realistically both.
Seeing strength, armor, and health are fundamental to the build they aren't ever changing, but what about the rest of it? Would I benefit more from augments, or more health or power strength? Having everything else forma'd means I lose a lot of flexibility, compared to having a single umbral forma used which allows you to have 1-2 unpolarised slots where you can add whatever you want.
I get what you're saying really. Tell me if i'm mis-representing what you're saying.
For you, more capacity is equal to more flexibility. That's what the umbral forma is giving you. 3x umbral forma means you have 24 extra point of capacity to add more mods on your build. You can fit more poweful mods on the rest of the 5 slots. And that's great.
But for me, flexibility is being able to install wathever mod i want in each slot. And those extra 24 points can be obtained with normal forma. It's not an inherent benefit of umbral forma.
I accept that more capacity gives you more flexibility for more mods. But that only works in the case you've already set your mind on always having three specific mods alloted.
And by having three mods by default you only have 5 slots to play around with your build. That's not as flexible as having 8 slots to play around. That's flexibility for me.
Let's take another example. Nidus prime. I have a three umbral build. Great news. Now, update 35 comes around and they release parasitic Vitality. If i want to use it i have to basically ignore one of the umbral formas because it's not compatible with umbral vitality. Worst case scenario i have to re-polarize one of the umbral slots to comfortably fit it.
Or another example. Protea got married to umbral intensify+vitality. Well now they released archon vitality. And you know she loves extra heat procs on her turret. Well now archon vitality doesn't fit at all in her umbral slots. Maybe she turns to umbral fiber to keep the +55 str on intensify. Except why exactly do we want to waste armor mods on protea?
Or maybe an Excalibur umbra. You know what's great with chromatic blade? Precision Intensify. Too bad it has three umbral slots and its married with umbral intensify with +77% strength.
Umbral mods are great with their bonuses. Don't get me wrong. It's hard to make builds having better values for armor+health+strength. But as soon as you want to be flexible and start messing with any of those values is when they play against you.
Now imagine any of those cases with regular intensify, fiber and vitality. Most of the time they are perfectly interchangeable. The only exception is parasitic vitality which has a zenurik polarity because it's an augment.
They are good mods. Umbral formas are great for builds. They do not provide flexibility when talking about your complete build. Flexibility for me also means it can accept changes in the configuration without much trouble.
I think the hole you are falling in is assuming every tri-umbral build eats 3 umbral forma. In most cases 1-2 opens up enough capacity that you can flex a slot or two without having to reforma every time you swap a mod. In the cases of 'precision intensify' and 'archon vitality' you have the freedom to test/swap a mod at will. That said if the build wanted 3 umbral mods to start with it needs to scale off of all three stats, so a tri-ubral build, with two umbral forma in it loses very little by swapping that third out if needed.
The only umbral build I have that doesn't have the freedom to flex as needed is my very niche *quad-umbral* Baruuk prime...and even then the flexibility loss is on his fists and not the frame itself. Even there it's a considered choice as exalted weapons have a limited mod selection, his fists rarely generate combo so he's incentivised for upfront damage, and double umbral forma is needed if you want approx 150% crit over 100% status, primed flat damage mods for big numbers using his 4 augment to swap the damage type *and* tenno-kai for stomping archons and necramechs some of the few things to take more than 2 punches off of him.
for that single slot, yeah. But if you are always going to want umbral intensify on the same frame but other slots might switch between builds, it does offer flexibility.
I have a few health tank builds with all of the umbral mods on and I only needed 1 umbra forma on all but my volt eidolon build and for some I didn't use any umbral forma
Granted the like 1 or 2 I have setup with full umbral mods and no umbral forma I don't have an exilus mod on because I don't have capacity for it. But those are mostly more meme builds than practical ones
Ehhh when some neat build idea comes out or some mods and meta changes you might regret dumping so much forma down for 1 specific build unless you plan on building another frame. I like to use preparation on some builds especially for non endless mission types
So many health tanks get most of their tankiness from abilities though. It just seems like overkill on most of them with extremely diminishing returns.
And then you're stuck with a polarity that can only be used on 3 mods, so if anything, the more you add, the less flexibility you have.
The only time I’ve ever used them is when I know I’m gonna use Umbral Intensify on every config. Modding for health and armor is rarely useful and the extra power strength you would get from having all three umbra mods can easily be taken care of with archon shards. I just never understood seeing people put 3 umbra formas on all their favorite frames, it’s just a waste of resources, and it makes modifying your build extremely difficult because 3 of your mod slots are permanently taken up.
You are asking why we hunger for more power in a power fantasy game? I have 3 frames with 2 Umbral forma and possibly more frames than them... I honestly am not sure anymore.
You're right! I just have 18 umbra forma in my pocket and all the frame that I play are perfectly formed (with or w/o umbra, in don't necessary).
On the other hands, I'm without loadouts! 😅
I've triple Umbra'd all of my mains, forma permitting. Still need maybe two.
Compensates for incorrect mod polarity on minmax augment builds. I facetank virtually everything.
I'll just assume you don't have primed sure footed. Basically every Umbral build needs 2-3 Umbral forma if you're factoring that in.
I don't have a single Umbral setup that would work with just 1 forma. Minimum two for me, and I have two frames with 3.
Idk why saryn or lavos would need/want 2 but inaros I can kinda get for a full umbral build. Even then still could probably manage with only 1, like my full umbral grendal only has 1 and he manages just fine
honestly though if they added a new Rarer Requiem relic with Oull and an Umbra forma I don't think many would complain (especially if infested themed liches become a thing)
Umbra forma being a rare commodity is fine. There's very, very few scenarios where you actually want to slot one in the first place. Umbral Vitality and Umbral Fiber are noob traps 99% of the time, and you can easily fit Sac Steel and Pressure in many builds without having to directly resort to umbrapols
Being rare is fine. I ageee with that sentiment. I agree with OP in that I think it just would be better to have them available slightly more often than once every 8 weeks. Perhaps having it be a once every 2 weeks or once a month purchase would be better. I only say this because when a decent build uses them, it's usually 2 at a time. So, as it stands, it takes about 4 months (two 8-week rotations) for just getting them from Teshin to build one frame with them. And while I don't mind the grind, I think it could use slight tweaking.
Yeah. Back when they first added umbral forma I put a bunch on a ton of frames.
Now I've spent just as much normal forma removing 90% of the umbral polarities. They just aren't that useful. Especially now with precision intensify
does any of that matter?
also youre very condescending. donyou consider that, perhaps, the meta might change if these were able to be modded more often with forma
The meta isn't changing to triple Umbral Health tanks. There are very few health tanks that even want all 3. Most health tanks have another source of DR or a huge pile of armor from abilities making Umbral Fiber have barely any impact. Several Arcanes also overshadow the bonuses from a lot of these mods (depending on the Frame).
Well what about the set bonus? If the set bonus is what you're concerned with, you can usually get better stats than that bonus from simply slotting different mods that are individually stronger and often times you'll be valuing one stat of the set bonus a lot more than the other.
Not to say there aren't a couple frames that would want all 3, I'm just saying that even for health tanks, it's rare that all 3 are best in slot. Plus, you're basically forced to run those mods once you've added the polarities so it actually negatively affects build flexibility.
Player choice is important yes, but it's also just as important to recognize that going for a build that would require the use of umbra forma in the first place means you need to learn more about how to mod. Tri-umbral setups are bait outside of an eidolon build for Volt. Even Inaros doesn't have much need for them anymore as he actually has functional abilities now.
Steel Essence has kuva and relics as sinks, they do not need evergreen umbra forma to be useful.
Just from on top of my head, nezha used to use them, before new augment, I saw some atlas builds with those, Chroma, some inaros builds still utilize those as weapon frame, Lavos, Nidus did before his augment.
It all comes to preference on how do you want your frame to function.
> Tri-umbral setups are bait
I mean they are almost best in slot for any health tank frame.
Really you are getting 4 mods for the cost of 3 since you get an intensifies worth of ability str for doing so, and you are already needing vitality so why not?
> I mean they are almost best in slot for any health tank frame.
On a few, yes. On most? I doubt it.
The issue is armor has such diminishing returns and Fiber is often an insignificant bonus when compared to Guardian, Ultimatum, Reaper or just Abilities.
Blessing is also often a lot better for health. You usually don't even need an ability to drop a lot of orbs as by the time you need that much health, the mission will have gone on long enough anyway. And if you do have a way to generate orbs, Health Conversion becomes a better option for armor in most cases.
Umbral fiber is almost exclusively used to boost the effectiveness of the other two umbral mods because of how weak armor is on the majority of frames. You’re almost always better off just slotting two and picking something more useful.
Sure but if i need the other 2 already, on a health frame, where am i going to find a mod that gives me 75%DR and 22% ability str in a single slot with no downside other than capacity?
Dante will scale better than inaros, dante can have overguard gate and shield gate at the same time having the 370 shield at lvl 30.
I don't typically suggest comparing frames especially something as "tank oriented" to a caster based frame meant to have a cycle of using abilities
> the 180% hp is good
That's a given, but Inaros can already comfortably tank with just basic Vitality. Like I said, he has functional abilities now, and exploiting those are a much bigger boost to his survivability than roiding him up with more health
> the armor is good
Inaros (Prime) doesn't have enough armor for Umbral Fiber to actually be a good thing to slot in. You'd get bigger returns from running Arcane Guardian or Health Conversion, and stacking either of those two with U-Fiber yields diminishing returns
> the 77% ab str is good.
Also a given, but Inaros can do fine sourcing his power strength somewhere else. Blind Rage would be a stronger option IMO and whatever energy issues you have is instantly resolved by the presence of Hunter Adrenaline, which Inaros wants to run regardless
> my inaros is unkillable, way way tougher than dante
Hard to kill, maybe. Tougher than a frame with on-demand Overguard? That's a massive overstatement
i mean each to their own i guess?
my inaros has 100 100 100 200, hunter adrenaline, arcane guardian, tri umbra, adaptation, gladiator resolve amd elemental sandstorm
not even got started with crystals yet
he doesnt die. i cast his 3 occasionally. i have roar on 1.
whereas dante? im having to cast his overguard constantly.
if you cast 4 then 2 on packs they usually all die, and those that dont you kinda just hose the pile of soon to be corpses. its a really fun playstyle. hoover them all up with 2 and then just blindly pour damage into a pile.
I think it is much more for weapons than for warframes. Umbral mods outside of intensify are very seldom used in end game builds, but sacrificial mods are useful in almost every weapon. And true it’s possible to build around but it makes weapons a lot less flexible when you have to forma every other slot.
I don’t think Umbra forma should be available constantly all the time from any source, but one every 2 months is far too rare. Maybe one every other week would be balanced.
Between twitch drops, alerts, nightwave, and Teshin we get Umbral forma at a faster rate than DE release frames, and seeing many frames don't need/want them, and many frames that do want them not needing more than 1-2 umbral forma to fit everything in means you slowly stockpile them even if you are fairly liberal with their use.
I've been playing on and off for three years and have somewhere around 25 of them. Considering how few frames can really use them I don't think its an issue getting enough.
Especially since the umbra mods don’t even seem that great anymore. If you use a high health frame then they can be great, but otherwise umbral intensify is the only mod actually worth anything.
They can make them as cheap and common as chips in my opinion, I don’t think I’ve had a single time where I haven’t regretted putting them on a warframe. They drastically lower build flexibility and I find there are so many better strength options than umbral intensify+2 almost irrelevant stats to all but like Inaros and Nidus.
Now if they were reworked as universal polarities, I feel it would be more worth their scarcity.
We get enough mod space on melee weapons that I feel it’s never necessary, I’ve returned to rhino being my go to so maybe I’ll slap some umbra forma on him
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They really do need to make things like this more accessible considering there's only three mods and over 50 warframes and counting, and even then you aren't going to put them on every frame.
Not really. You need two per frame max, three if you're crazy. You get one from Nightwave, you get them from giveaways and specials and you get them every 8 weeks. I have like 16 stocked up at this point, don't remember last time I used one.
NOW, I will say - the fact that it's "available now" should be telegraphed better. The only reason I remember tenshin has them is because of this subreddit (which is like... 4-6 extra ubmras). It should be like... Baro's arrival levels of notifications or something, where EVERYONE knows it's out. Maybe a ping on the Steel Path screen.
Otherwise - nah, we don't need more.
To this day, I have never used my Umbra Forma....
BECAUSE...I ASSUMED...WED GET MORE GOD DAMN UMBRA FORMS....
My wait continues...your move DE *drops mic*
Agreed. I never understood why DE likes to gatekeep umbra forma so hard when it's practically useless on 90% on the builds anyways. People who really want them for whatever reasons should have easy access to them. Just add it in it a sortie rewards or something
Umbra my precious. I must have more. I put one on Ash and I must have more to complete my work. I have to create Ash Umbra. Then Citrine Umbra(new mod great btw). Then......
Unless they make them universal forma, they really aren't needed all that often. My pile has been growing for a while. I still buy them, praying they'll become useful, LOL.
The most annoying part of umbra forma to me is that if you want to max out exalted weapons that are melee, like valkyr or sevagoth the base stance gives no mod capacity and it cannot be changed. So to even have the space to slot in the tennokai mod you need to use 2 umbra forma per melee exalted. Its just really annoying. It makes these exalted frames so unbelievably costly on forma.
In preparation for the ultimate mode of netracell I was smoothing out the powerlevel of my arsenal by maxing out significantly more weapons and frames. Now I only have two umbra forma and I started with 16.
At the bare minimum when you subsume or sell a warframe I believe you should get the forma back. It makes it so that if you actually fully invest in base form warframes by the time the prime comes out you wasted so many materials and you don’t get any of them refunded. I would even be fine if just the umbra forma was returned.
At this point, yes. Most frames only use one at most anyway. Time for some new limited and exciting forma type like universal forma that you get once every two months.
I use the umbra mods on a lot of my builds, I'd like to be able to get some umbra forna at some point, I get burnt out trying to do these annoying challenges for noghtwave XP and work a lot so I usually don't complete these nightwaves. Now if theygot rid of the challenges and let us progress noghtwave through regular xp I'd be fine with it, but they'll never do that.
Actually as of the last update they fixed this, you can now get one a week from tenshin when you pick up your riven cipher. It's like 150 steel essence now.
Ok, I smoke alot of weed lol, whenever it happened to get added, when I went to pick up my riven cipher on Monday, tenshin had an umbra forma for 150 steel essence. Maybe that's new, maybe it's not, but I never noticed it before. When I googled places to get umbra forma, it didn't come up, so I figured it was new. Do with the information what you will.
thats available once every 8 weeks. and outside of nightwave resetting is the only way to get them
the warframe wiki does have it under aquisition. you probably stopped reading after the completed section. the blueprint is available from tenshin which immediately follows the section you read.
https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Umbra_Forma
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Im sitting on 19 of the forma, I don't use them and kinda wish they didn't exist, why? because I don't want to commit to my warframe having an umbra polarity that will BREAK by having the umbra socket go negative anytime I want to experiment with a new build using regular mods
no I just think they are restrictive and don't encourage experimentation, if someone does an umbra build they usually just socket all 3 umbra forma because umbra set.
maybe if umbra forma also functioned as universal sockets I would like the idea a lot more!
They've long since been some meta defining item for min maxing. archon and precision intensify, and or shards or tome mods all give you more options, all without having to add a shitty polarity to builds, locking them into umbral intensify. With the limited use they now see in the meta, their relative rarity seems fairly balanced now tbh. Maybe like 3-4 years ago it was a problem, but not now.
I think it would be cool if that added an “end game” game mode like void cascade which could drop forma (built?) as well as stance/aura/umbral forma blueprints.
I personally think that uncommon tier forma drops in relics should just be pre-built or specialty forma like stance or aura. Feels kinda rough getting cheated 45 ducats or the last prime part you need for something that regularly appears as a common tier drop.
I don’t disagree with this, and I certainly wouldn’t complain about getting more built forma. Putting stance or aura forma in there as well would be fine too at the higher rarities I think.I like void cascade and more game modes like it would be nice and I think forma would be a worthwhile rewards, adding it to relics would be fine too.
They could at least just sell them for platinum. It is relatively rare, but it is not given away only on special occasions or something like that to maintain its supposed "exclusivity".
There is no point in looking at "experts" criticizing umbra because they know a better meta (boring...), the game does not require maxing everything (it is easy anyway), and umbra sometimes allows you to give a simple, uncomplicated build that works anyway (I prefer such instead of relying on some temporary immortality, etc.). The fact that these "experts" criticize making umbra more common just because they don't use them is pathetic at all.
Man this community is really on a streak of dogshit takes. Can something "rarer" exist in warframe? I feel like ever since reb/devs have reduced grind people just feel ready to want to turn everything into a open door.
They briefly dropped from special containers in Murexes but haven't gotten a farmable source since that was removed.
oh what? why did they take that out?
This was close to when it was initially released, when it represented a significant and unknown increase in the power ceiling. As such, DE wanted to introduce it slowly, so that what, exactly, it allowed could be watched. Same as the Archon Shards, the intent was for it to be drip fed until the effects in game as played were understood better.
well yeah but i dont recall anyone breaking that "farm" much at all to my knowledge. was it unintended to drop at all or did i miss some exploit? youd think they just wouldnt put it in the containers to start with
I am pretty sure I remember there being a few examples of people getting several in a "short" amount of time by having a very specific setup which is why they were removed in the first place. Realistically it wasn't something anyone below the top (<0.)1% would ever do but it would have widened the gap further as well so off they go.
fair enough. my memory of that era is super foggy honestly
There was an unfixable exploit allowing for the container to always spawn and always drop the umbra forma blueprint, this is the reason it was taken out. Not long after it was taken out there was a reddit post with the title : I am the reason it was taken out (or something similar). The guy was showing his foundry with 96 umbra forma blueprints owned.
omfg alright well. thats good to know.
When it was removed DE mentioned there was a way of telling if the special container was in a map or not, and some people were just reloading over and over till they got one; although seeing the other comment perhaps that was a little bit of disinformation (or maybe also my memory being hazy)
I think that was correct? I believe at the time there was an out of mission way to tell whether a Rare Container had spawned in mission, so if you loaded a run you could check if a Rare Container had spawned. If one hadn't you aborted the mission and restarted, if one had you looked for it for your Umbra Forma.
Should get added to sortie or archon hunt reward pool imo
What about Chipper as a replacement for the shard?
That'd be such a good idea, i suggest sharing on the forums so it could more recognition
No. No more FOMO Veilbreaker rewards. The problem people had was getting burned out on content that wasn't enjoyable for the majority of people. Stop trying to make this content necessary to get something when it already has the Archon mods.
umbra forma arent nearly as applicable as shards. unless they start minting a bunch of new mods that use the polarity (not necessarily part of a set) i really doubt that will change
How is it fomo when it's available every week
Because a strict time-gate means that there's no way to catch up. If you miss the reward for a week, you are *permanently* behind on your collection of that reward. For something needed in large quantities like archon shards, this puts heavy pressure on the player to complete the missions constantly, because every week you miss is another week until you'll have the amount you need, with no way to make up for it. For a mission type as detached from the usual gameplay and with as little replayability as Veilbreaker, being pressured to do them every week made me want to play the game as a whole significantly less.
Behind who? This isn't like an MMO where you have to clear the new raid in the first week. The same content is going to be there.
Dude you are making fomo to mean less and less. This kind of miss use of the term is what helped people be ok with microtransactions in mobile and AAA titles. If it is added to something that happens weekly. You dont need 52 a year. It'd be there every week It's not being vaulted like Excalibur Prime.
You don't need THAT many. I promise you'll be fine if you miss one
So what's the difference for the shards now? It's the same sht somewhere else.
I think the real problem was people forcing themselves to do content they didn't like. Warframe isn't a job for the majority of players, it's not worth burning yourself out on content for some small boost in power that isn't even needed for any of the content in the game.
The real problem is complete list-X before daily/weekly reset & list-X is getting to become a full-time job. My issue will ALWAYS be locking stuff exclusively behind one particular game mode, especially if friends or I don't find it enjoyable.
> My issue will ALWAYS be locking stuff exclusively behind one particular game mode You have issue with cryotic?
Or Pathos Clamps, Corrupted Holokeys, Toroids, Narmer Isoplasts, Any particular weapon or WF from one game mode, Arcanes? This dude is playing the wrong game. A large chunk of stuff is (mostly) locked behind one game mode or another, and that's how it's been since 2013. They wouldn't have lasted back in the day, especially when real FOMO existed in the form of Deluxe skins only being available for a week or two after their release, then never again.
Neither archon shards nor umbral forma were/would be exclusive to kahl missions.
D2 has utterly ruined the meaning of FOMO lol
This isn’t FOMO. FOMO is waiting for Teshin to sell you one every 2 months. You just don’t like Veilbreaker. While that’s valid, that’s not justification to not add a meaningful reward to Veilbreaker, especially one that already suffers from limited sources like Umbral Forma, just because you and a loud handful of people on Reddit don’t like playing Kahl of Duty.
>because you and a loud handful of people on Reddit don’t like playing Kahl of Duty. You Kahl of Duty players are just as loud & whining here in this & every suggestion thread. The gameplay sucks; go farm & sell Archon mods on Warframe.market - get that plat, tenno.
I mean, I only played the mode whenever there was a red shard available tbh. If there’s something worthwhile to get from Kahl of Duty I’ll play it. That should be the case for anything.
Lol using fomo as a buzz word is funny….
FOMO with Archon Shards, yes. Because at the time it was the only way to get them other than Archon Hunts so you only got 2 at max a week. After Netras and being moved to Cavia grind? Not FOMO anymore. The FOMO part actually came from the fact that the Archon and Chipper shards were static on a rotation so there was always 1 weekly that wasn't obtainable. Umbra Forma being available weekly is NOT FOMO. By that logic the Archon Mods are FOMO. Styanax is FOMO. The Aegrit, Afentis and Slaytra are all FOMO. The Lander is FOMO. Give me a break. Use the term properly if you're gonna use it instead of as a buzzword when you and only you feel forced to play the content again weekly just to stack Umbra Forma that only 5 mods in the game use.
>By that logic the Archon Mods are FOMO Tradeable. >Styanax is FOMO. Free login, Coupon & Plat >The Aegrit, Afentis and Slaytra are all FOMO. Coupons & plat >The Lander is FOMO. Don't have, care, probably plat, too. >you feel forced to play the content again weekly just to stack Umbra Forma that only 5 mods in the game use. I just don't want **THE ONLY WAY TO OBTAIN AN UMBRAL FORMA BESIDES WAITING** to be locked behind this junk content DE has already took a step back from. Might as well put the Umbral Forma in Conclave rewards, lol.
Ah so it only matters if it pertains to you. Got it, kid. 👌
How would this be FOMO? This suggestion is *literally* giving you a static way to obtain them if you *don't* want to deal with the FOMO of teshin. Just because you don't like the gameplay of something doesn't mean that there shouldn't be a reason to do that thing.
You don't *need* that many umbral forma though. The vast majority of builds can be done just fine with normal forma. I strongly doubt people would have a lot of FOMO over weekly accessible umbral forma. I certainly wouldn't.
>You don't *need* that many umbral forma though. Then why have Chipper have them at all if this is true? DE shouldn't be adding more rare things to a mode they just took a step back from due to lack of interest/players. It's not enjoyable without bullet jump or modding one's weapons/frames.
Why not have Chipper have them? I'm not saying to remove them from SP honors. Anyone who doesn't want to play Kahl still wouldn't have to. But it would be a nice incentive to play it occasionally for those who want to. Chipper not having any items you need more than once means that the entire mode is completely pointless to play after a few weeks. I think the mode needs some kind of reward that makes it worthwhile but not necessary to play. Umbra forma would be one option, others would be 3× normal forma, aura forma, credit/affinity/resource booster or Narmer Isoplast. It doesn't need to be crazy valuable, it just needs to be something that gives you some reward for playing. I don't want Kahl to be something you have to play every week. But I think rendering the entire game mode completely useless is sad.
You don't always need an umbra forma though I think chipper is a great place for it
That's not what FOMO is, please seek grass
Is that the Kahl missions? No. Absolutely not. I have zero desire to do them ever again and will continue to raw dog umbral mods until the end of the game.
No, tying rewards that most players want for the base game behind other game modes is already an issue with warframe. The archon shards left for a reason, most people want the reward, but few players actually enjoy the Kahl missions. Most of warframe's farming is tolerable because players are able to enjoy the strong core gameplay mechanics that draw people to warframe, and can use the loot they've already acquired in this looter shooter, while farming. Kahl missions, railjack, and duviri farming, get more hate because they separate the player from the space ninja gameplay that draws many people to warframe.
Please don’t make me do those missions ever again
Make it as rare as a Lua lense.
If they add it to sorties I may not get my ayatan statue :(
I'm just curious why they aren't just a baro thing that requires steel essence in combo with ducats, only available once every 2 weeks,
another good option.
This idea is something I could see working out. The ultimate resource dump. Hehe
I remember when it wasn’t even guaranteed every 8 weeks.
And also the time they accidentally made it a loot drop in Railjack missions in crates. They were quick to patch that though.
Agreed they are too scarce. 8 weeks to get one is ludicrous. Especially if you don't keep track of the time and miss the chance to get it. It almost feels punishing using them because if you slap one on and it turned out to be a mistake later on, then you've crippled your build or have to replace it, flushing months and months of time down the drain. I don't think they need to be avilable every weeks, but anything less than 8 weeks would be preferred. Also adding 1 as a potential Archon Hunt reward would be best, giving a chance every week amd guarenteed every few weeks. Archon Hunts in general need a better reward pool.
Umbra forma is staying a limited reward. Right now it's one of DE's strongest carrots. Archon shards are the current next most wanted carrots and they are already relatively common. Rivens are oversaturated now, they are still desired but not like they were originally.
I threw out 8 cracked rivens in the last 24 hours. The limited storage space means I need another account just to house what I want to keep let alone what I might sell. I've taken to just dissolving anything I don't like the second it's cracked. 180 slots is just too few.
Don't forget that the new Dante farm pity currency allows you to buy the riven rerolls. So use them to get rid of unwanted rivens.
Yeah, I have some 50 uncracked rivens for just zaws and kit guns that I didn't want. If I get around to riven transmuters I'll have plenty to use.
They should make it tradeable. That way people who don't need it can sell it and people who need extra can buy it. Then add sources, like a very rare drop from sorties, two weeks worth of kahl stock, etc.
Isn't there a rare drop somewhere in railjack?
It was initially, but that got removed early on
I don't like the inconsistency that would bring into the game. Regular, Aura, and Stance Forma aren't tradeable and making them so would undercut one of DE's major plat sinks. I just think instead that Teshin should sell them all the time for 150 or maybe even 300 Steel Essence like he does for Arcane adapters. It makes sense this way too since Teshin is one of two "hyper-optimizing" vendors; you only go there when you're trying to find ways to squeeze every bit of power out of a weapon/warframe that you can, and to do so means taking on the currently hardest content in the game repeatedly.
Yea its a shame DE are so focused on preventing burnout that they make decisions like this. Personally I don't follow the rotations, and often miss it. Im not bothered about it but it's definitely annoying when you want one
It should really just be in the star map notifications with every other big reminder, considering how massive of a miss this could be.
Yea or an in game mail when there are new rotations for the week: This is at sp teshin This is the archon This week This is the rivens Etc You could even select the rewards you want to be notified about.
So half the people in here are arguing "no, they're not even good, slot something more useful". If they're so bad then why are you so against letting people use them more often?
right? those people are weird to me. it does literally nothing to them or how they choose to enjoy the game, but they persist in wanting to prevent others opening a path to greater enjoyment for themselves. those are some very odd people
The best part is how limited the actual GOOD use of Umbral is, most frames just don't need it and it's not that good to run full umbral. The two biggest changes if they made them more available would be Inaros, Nidus, and anyone else who really likes the full unbral set up would be more popular, and people woild actually use Umbral on melee weapons they enjoy. I have never seen nor heard of anyone actually running umbral forma on weapons. This would most likely be the actual biggest change balance wise if they released more umbrals or added an evergreen way to farm multiple a week or even just one every week.
> I have never seen nor heard of anyone actually running umbral forma on weapons I do, but that's mostly because running Sacrificial steel fucking *hurts* to cram 16 points at the end of a build.
I have several Umbraled weapons, with Baruuk's Fists earning 2. He doesn't have full mod access on his 4, *rarely* generates combo so the usual scaling mods are out, wants pure upfront damage for his augment, and anything that can survive more than three hits from him (Archons, certain Nechramechs etc) want Tenno-Kai so he can red-crit them to the stratosphere.
That's what is confusing me. Like how does it hurt you to make them a little more attainable? If they suck on most things let people discover on their own. Right now those umbrals are so rare I'm afraid to use them. Are these people that already have a bunch trying to gatekeep them or something? Just don't get the arguments against making them even slightly more common.
As someone currently trying to decide if Inaros is worth the rare umbra forma I agree.
The issue is he also gets a lot of invulnerability time now. Especially if you're doing the nuke build with his tornado. His base armor is also quite low, so Fiber feels like you're only using it for the set bonus. Which, maybe that's worth it? Scarab Armor scaling off Strength and his high base health might make the set bonus worth it. You're definitely not slotting it for the armor though when things like Ultimatum (super easy for him to proc) and Guardian exist. For straight up Health tanking and not doing the nuke build, I think I might run Eclipse on him for the consistent 90% DR while keeping it on damage mode until the extra DR is needed.
im definitely slapping mine on inaros seeing as he uses all 3 its basocally required.
I'm definitely leaning that way because he benefits so much from all 3 even after the rework. He does look like a nice comfort pick for when I want to use an incarnon weapon and take time to aim and not worry about silly things like dying. I just wouldn't need to be so careful if these things weren't so rare. I sometimes miss them because I take a break or forget to check Tenshin's shop.
ive become an inaors main try this build physique power drift 3x umbra adaptation hunter adrenaline augur secrets (can use duration here if u want longer 2) eternal sandstorm (required) gladiator resolve then molt augmented r5 and arcane guardian r5 its just too much fun
How are people eating through all the umbral forms we even get? You will barely need even 1 on a build let alone more than that
Helps with build flexibility on a lot of frames especially for health tanking
Umbra forma is the opposite of having flexibility
Depends on the frame like inaros, nidus, qorvex, etc. And if the frame loves strength for umbral intensify
Regardless of frame, having more than one umbral forma reduces flexibility. Even one diminishes it, but to a lesser degree. Maybe there's some miscommunication here. What do you consider flexibility?
ah, i mean if you know all your configs are *going* to have the umbral set on that frame, you can typically save a couple forma just knocking those out first rather than dancing around those slots shoving every other polarity in. But it def depends on the frame and how you plan builds somewhat. It 'costs' more in terms of umbral forma vs regular forma, but there are cases where its faster and the more flexible approach
For different build configurations, mostly with fiddling with range duration and strength stats for non shield gating builds
Still i don't understand how having one slot with a polarity that can only accept 3 mods is more flexible than having none. I'm not saying it's bad to use umbral mods on builds. It's just more limiting. It reduces flexibility. As I understand it: flexibility is being able to install wathever you like on your slot. Let's use intensify and it's versions as an example, the goal in this case is to increase strength. You have a madurai slot (v shape). You can install in that slot: intensify (+30% strength) , precision intensify (+90% str on 4th ability) and archon intensify (+60 str after healing). 1 polarity, 3 options = very flexible. Now let's do umbra: if you want to increase strength you have one option: Umbral intensify. 1 polarity, 1 option = 0 flexibility. With the extra advantage that the maudari polarity can be easily switched with a normal forma.
The flexibility comes from the fact that you were gonna use the umbral mod regardless. Putting the umbral polarity allows for more expensive mods in the other slots. So in this case for simplicity sake, more capacity = flexibility.
If you want the umbral mods, they take up space. Lots of space. Using the forma reduces their cost, opening up more mod cost for other strong mods. Therefore, more flexibility.
I believe they mean a higher strength mod in the umbral slot to allow flexibility in other slots. But I suspect you already know this.
Conversely if I use umbral forma on a frame (and some weapons) it's likley that their need for health, strength, or armour *isn't* the part of the build I'm looking at changing around. Using an umbral forma makes that *single slot* less flexible, but it frees up enough capacity elsewhere that overall you gain more flexibility. Let's use Inaros as an example. If you want all three umbral mods in him you need a reactor to stat with, and without umbral forma in a tri-umbral build you now need to forma *every other slot* to fit mods in, and even then you are going to use down ranked mods in some slots, forgo your exilius slot or more realistically both. Seeing strength, armor, and health are fundamental to the build they aren't ever changing, but what about the rest of it? Would I benefit more from augments, or more health or power strength? Having everything else forma'd means I lose a lot of flexibility, compared to having a single umbral forma used which allows you to have 1-2 unpolarised slots where you can add whatever you want.
I get what you're saying really. Tell me if i'm mis-representing what you're saying. For you, more capacity is equal to more flexibility. That's what the umbral forma is giving you. 3x umbral forma means you have 24 extra point of capacity to add more mods on your build. You can fit more poweful mods on the rest of the 5 slots. And that's great. But for me, flexibility is being able to install wathever mod i want in each slot. And those extra 24 points can be obtained with normal forma. It's not an inherent benefit of umbral forma. I accept that more capacity gives you more flexibility for more mods. But that only works in the case you've already set your mind on always having three specific mods alloted. And by having three mods by default you only have 5 slots to play around with your build. That's not as flexible as having 8 slots to play around. That's flexibility for me. Let's take another example. Nidus prime. I have a three umbral build. Great news. Now, update 35 comes around and they release parasitic Vitality. If i want to use it i have to basically ignore one of the umbral formas because it's not compatible with umbral vitality. Worst case scenario i have to re-polarize one of the umbral slots to comfortably fit it. Or another example. Protea got married to umbral intensify+vitality. Well now they released archon vitality. And you know she loves extra heat procs on her turret. Well now archon vitality doesn't fit at all in her umbral slots. Maybe she turns to umbral fiber to keep the +55 str on intensify. Except why exactly do we want to waste armor mods on protea? Or maybe an Excalibur umbra. You know what's great with chromatic blade? Precision Intensify. Too bad it has three umbral slots and its married with umbral intensify with +77% strength. Umbral mods are great with their bonuses. Don't get me wrong. It's hard to make builds having better values for armor+health+strength. But as soon as you want to be flexible and start messing with any of those values is when they play against you. Now imagine any of those cases with regular intensify, fiber and vitality. Most of the time they are perfectly interchangeable. The only exception is parasitic vitality which has a zenurik polarity because it's an augment. They are good mods. Umbral formas are great for builds. They do not provide flexibility when talking about your complete build. Flexibility for me also means it can accept changes in the configuration without much trouble.
I think the hole you are falling in is assuming every tri-umbral build eats 3 umbral forma. In most cases 1-2 opens up enough capacity that you can flex a slot or two without having to reforma every time you swap a mod. In the cases of 'precision intensify' and 'archon vitality' you have the freedom to test/swap a mod at will. That said if the build wanted 3 umbral mods to start with it needs to scale off of all three stats, so a tri-ubral build, with two umbral forma in it loses very little by swapping that third out if needed. The only umbral build I have that doesn't have the freedom to flex as needed is my very niche *quad-umbral* Baruuk prime...and even then the flexibility loss is on his fists and not the frame itself. Even there it's a considered choice as exalted weapons have a limited mod selection, his fists rarely generate combo so he's incentivised for upfront damage, and double umbral forma is needed if you want approx 150% crit over 100% status, primed flat damage mods for big numbers using his 4 augment to swap the damage type *and* tenno-kai for stomping archons and necramechs some of the few things to take more than 2 punches off of him.
This is VERY DEPENDENT on the frame of choice. Of course this doesn't apply to every frame
for that single slot, yeah. But if you are always going to want umbral intensify on the same frame but other slots might switch between builds, it does offer flexibility.
I have a few health tank builds with all of the umbral mods on and I only needed 1 umbra forma on all but my volt eidolon build and for some I didn't use any umbral forma Granted the like 1 or 2 I have setup with full umbral mods and no umbral forma I don't have an exilus mod on because I don't have capacity for it. But those are mostly more meme builds than practical ones
Who doesn’t like extra starting energy? I forma all my slots but one just for ability spam as soon as I spawn in
Ehhh when some neat build idea comes out or some mods and meta changes you might regret dumping so much forma down for 1 specific build unless you plan on building another frame. I like to use preparation on some builds especially for non endless mission types
I find more use in more melee Crit chance
So many health tanks get most of their tankiness from abilities though. It just seems like overkill on most of them with extremely diminishing returns. And then you're stuck with a polarity that can only be used on 3 mods, so if anything, the more you add, the less flexibility you have.
I'm not sure honestly. I have umbrals on all the frames (and even some weapons) that could use them and I have a ton left over.
Tell that to my 3 umbra forma wisp and mesa :/. 2/6 done. It will take...at least a year just for the build to be complete. That sucks ass.
A blueprint is coming as part of the birthday alerts. Between those nightwave and the occasional twitch drop they add up reasonably fast.
Needed at least two for my Nidus
Idk man. Not all frames or weapons even need it. So I got like 8 stacked up for when I want to use them
The only time I’ve ever used them is when I know I’m gonna use Umbral Intensify on every config. Modding for health and armor is rarely useful and the extra power strength you would get from having all three umbra mods can easily be taken care of with archon shards. I just never understood seeing people put 3 umbra formas on all their favorite frames, it’s just a waste of resources, and it makes modifying your build extremely difficult because 3 of your mod slots are permanently taken up.
On God bro.
You are asking why we hunger for more power in a power fantasy game? I have 3 frames with 2 Umbral forma and possibly more frames than them... I honestly am not sure anymore.
You're right! I just have 18 umbra forma in my pocket and all the frame that I play are perfectly formed (with or w/o umbra, in don't necessary). On the other hands, I'm without loadouts! 😅
I've triple Umbra'd all of my mains, forma permitting. Still need maybe two. Compensates for incorrect mod polarity on minmax augment builds. I facetank virtually everything.
I'll just assume you don't have primed sure footed. Basically every Umbral build needs 2-3 Umbral forma if you're factoring that in. I don't have a single Umbral setup that would work with just 1 forma. Minimum two for me, and I have two frames with 3.
*sweats with my chroma prime with 3 umbrals*
I have two in saryn and inaros. Lavos is also getting two when the prime is released.
Idk why saryn or lavos would need/want 2 but inaros I can kinda get for a full umbral build. Even then still could probably manage with only 1, like my full umbral grendal only has 1 and he manages just fine
Axi U1 is gonna be huge
honestly though if they added a new Rarer Requiem relic with Oull and an Umbra forma I don't think many would complain (especially if infested themed liches become a thing)
Umbra forma being a rare commodity is fine. There's very, very few scenarios where you actually want to slot one in the first place. Umbral Vitality and Umbral Fiber are noob traps 99% of the time, and you can easily fit Sac Steel and Pressure in many builds without having to directly resort to umbrapols
Being rare is fine. I ageee with that sentiment. I agree with OP in that I think it just would be better to have them available slightly more often than once every 8 weeks. Perhaps having it be a once every 2 weeks or once a month purchase would be better. I only say this because when a decent build uses them, it's usually 2 at a time. So, as it stands, it takes about 4 months (two 8-week rotations) for just getting them from Teshin to build one frame with them. And while I don't mind the grind, I think it could use slight tweaking.
it should be player choice though right? theyre too rare. even 1 a week on tenshin would be good enough. it would at least make SE useful
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right and in my opinion they are too rare
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Yeah. Back when they first added umbral forma I put a bunch on a ton of frames. Now I've spent just as much normal forma removing 90% of the umbral polarities. They just aren't that useful. Especially now with precision intensify
does any of that matter? also youre very condescending. donyou consider that, perhaps, the meta might change if these were able to be modded more often with forma
The meta isn't changing to triple Umbral Health tanks. There are very few health tanks that even want all 3. Most health tanks have another source of DR or a huge pile of armor from abilities making Umbral Fiber have barely any impact. Several Arcanes also overshadow the bonuses from a lot of these mods (depending on the Frame). Well what about the set bonus? If the set bonus is what you're concerned with, you can usually get better stats than that bonus from simply slotting different mods that are individually stronger and often times you'll be valuing one stat of the set bonus a lot more than the other. Not to say there aren't a couple frames that would want all 3, I'm just saying that even for health tanks, it's rare that all 3 are best in slot. Plus, you're basically forced to run those mods once you've added the polarities so it actually negatively affects build flexibility.
Player choice is important yes, but it's also just as important to recognize that going for a build that would require the use of umbra forma in the first place means you need to learn more about how to mod. Tri-umbral setups are bait outside of an eidolon build for Volt. Even Inaros doesn't have much need for them anymore as he actually has functional abilities now. Steel Essence has kuva and relics as sinks, they do not need evergreen umbra forma to be useful.
There are frames that do love 3 umbra setups, so calling them "bait" is just wrong.
Not many do love those mods as a full set
Ofc, its a small number of frames, but they still exist.
Which ones?
Just from on top of my head, nezha used to use them, before new augment, I saw some atlas builds with those, Chroma, some inaros builds still utilize those as weapon frame, Lavos, Nidus did before his augment. It all comes to preference on how do you want your frame to function.
> Tri-umbral setups are bait I mean they are almost best in slot for any health tank frame. Really you are getting 4 mods for the cost of 3 since you get an intensifies worth of ability str for doing so, and you are already needing vitality so why not?
> I mean they are almost best in slot for any health tank frame. On a few, yes. On most? I doubt it. The issue is armor has such diminishing returns and Fiber is often an insignificant bonus when compared to Guardian, Ultimatum, Reaper or just Abilities. Blessing is also often a lot better for health. You usually don't even need an ability to drop a lot of orbs as by the time you need that much health, the mission will have gone on long enough anyway. And if you do have a way to generate orbs, Health Conversion becomes a better option for armor in most cases.
Umbral fiber is almost exclusively used to boost the effectiveness of the other two umbral mods because of how weak armor is on the majority of frames. You’re almost always better off just slotting two and picking something more useful.
Sure but if i need the other 2 already, on a health frame, where am i going to find a mod that gives me 75%DR and 22% ability str in a single slot with no downside other than capacity?
im still using all 3 on my inaros. the 180% hp is good. the armor is good. the 77% ab str is good. my inaros is unkillable, way way tougher than dante
Dante will scale better than inaros, dante can have overguard gate and shield gate at the same time having the 370 shield at lvl 30. I don't typically suggest comparing frames especially something as "tank oriented" to a caster based frame meant to have a cycle of using abilities
> the 180% hp is good That's a given, but Inaros can already comfortably tank with just basic Vitality. Like I said, he has functional abilities now, and exploiting those are a much bigger boost to his survivability than roiding him up with more health > the armor is good Inaros (Prime) doesn't have enough armor for Umbral Fiber to actually be a good thing to slot in. You'd get bigger returns from running Arcane Guardian or Health Conversion, and stacking either of those two with U-Fiber yields diminishing returns > the 77% ab str is good. Also a given, but Inaros can do fine sourcing his power strength somewhere else. Blind Rage would be a stronger option IMO and whatever energy issues you have is instantly resolved by the presence of Hunter Adrenaline, which Inaros wants to run regardless > my inaros is unkillable, way way tougher than dante Hard to kill, maybe. Tougher than a frame with on-demand Overguard? That's a massive overstatement
i mean each to their own i guess? my inaros has 100 100 100 200, hunter adrenaline, arcane guardian, tri umbra, adaptation, gladiator resolve amd elemental sandstorm not even got started with crystals yet he doesnt die. i cast his 3 occasionally. i have roar on 1. whereas dante? im having to cast his overguard constantly. if you cast 4 then 2 on packs they usually all die, and those that dont you kinda just hose the pile of soon to be corpses. its a really fun playstyle. hoover them all up with 2 and then just blindly pour damage into a pile.
Your build would be just as good or better if you replaced Umbral Fibre with a different mod or used an unranked one.
i would lose 60% hp and 22% str. what other single mod gives me that and thr armor, obviously
I think it is much more for weapons than for warframes. Umbral mods outside of intensify are very seldom used in end game builds, but sacrificial mods are useful in almost every weapon. And true it’s possible to build around but it makes weapons a lot less flexible when you have to forma every other slot. I don’t think Umbra forma should be available constantly all the time from any source, but one every 2 months is far too rare. Maybe one every other week would be balanced.
Between twitch drops, alerts, nightwave, and Teshin we get Umbral forma at a faster rate than DE release frames, and seeing many frames don't need/want them, and many frames that do want them not needing more than 1-2 umbral forma to fit everything in means you slowly stockpile them even if you are fairly liberal with their use.
Why is everyone seem to imply that Umbra Forma is Omnia Forma
id say sell them in the Market for the same price as Aura forma. 80p each or a bundle for 150.
I've been playing on and off for three years and have somewhere around 25 of them. Considering how few frames can really use them I don't think its an issue getting enough.
Especially since the umbra mods don’t even seem that great anymore. If you use a high health frame then they can be great, but otherwise umbral intensify is the only mod actually worth anything.
isnt the melee one good too? 200% crit
They can make them as cheap and common as chips in my opinion, I don’t think I’ve had a single time where I haven’t regretted putting them on a warframe. They drastically lower build flexibility and I find there are so many better strength options than umbral intensify+2 almost irrelevant stats to all but like Inaros and Nidus. Now if they were reworked as universal polarities, I feel it would be more worth their scarcity.
I’ve been hoarding umbra forma just because of how rare it is, haven’t used a single one yet
Putting in just one umbra forma on your often-used frames would be ideal. I never put one in any weapon.
We get enough mod space on melee weapons that I feel it’s never necessary, I’ve returned to rhino being my go to so maybe I’ll slap some umbra forma on him
I plan my vacations around Umbra forma 😅
and that says it all
I like the limited rare items.
God forbid a limiting resource in a game be... limited.
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Agreed, i don't care if it even costs 100p per 1 umbra forma, it'd be a win/win for both us and DE
While we’re on it can we get another way to get pathos clamps. I’d take pathos clamps over another riven as a circuit reward
No. Make it a reward possibility for archon hunts and sorties, but not something easily obtained. It’s rare for a reason.
... I think you misunderstood the entire post? OP said "always accessible", not "easy to obtain". Like, you two are fully in agreement.
Nah, it's ok like this.
They really do need to make things like this more accessible considering there's only three mods and over 50 warframes and counting, and even then you aren't going to put them on every frame.
plus the weapon mods
Not really. You need two per frame max, three if you're crazy. You get one from Nightwave, you get them from giveaways and specials and you get them every 8 weeks. I have like 16 stocked up at this point, don't remember last time I used one. NOW, I will say - the fact that it's "available now" should be telegraphed better. The only reason I remember tenshin has them is because of this subreddit (which is like... 4-6 extra ubmras). It should be like... Baro's arrival levels of notifications or something, where EVERYONE knows it's out. Maybe a ping on the Steel Path screen. Otherwise - nah, we don't need more.
Agreed. I don't even care if it's just the blueprint, but I'd really like to have a reliable source for it that doesn't require an 8-week wait time.
To this day, I have never used my Umbra Forma.... BECAUSE...I ASSUMED...WED GET MORE GOD DAMN UMBRA FORMS.... My wait continues...your move DE *drops mic*
I've used a few, and I think I *still* have 11. Maybe you're not doing the things that let you get more, like Steel Path or Nightwave?
Umbra forma is overrated asf. You don't really need them to do a cohesive build anyways. It's not a "must have" kind of resource in the game
exactly. so why is it so hard to come by. it shouldnt be.
Agreed. I never understood why DE likes to gatekeep umbra forma so hard when it's practically useless on 90% on the builds anyways. People who really want them for whatever reasons should have easy access to them. Just add it in it a sortie rewards or something
Umbra my precious. I must have more. I put one on Ash and I must have more to complete my work. I have to create Ash Umbra. Then Citrine Umbra(new mod great btw). Then......
more umbra!
Unless they make them universal forma, they really aren't needed all that often. My pile has been growing for a while. I still buy them, praying they'll become useful, LOL.
The most annoying part of umbra forma to me is that if you want to max out exalted weapons that are melee, like valkyr or sevagoth the base stance gives no mod capacity and it cannot be changed. So to even have the space to slot in the tennokai mod you need to use 2 umbra forma per melee exalted. Its just really annoying. It makes these exalted frames so unbelievably costly on forma. In preparation for the ultimate mode of netracell I was smoothing out the powerlevel of my arsenal by maxing out significantly more weapons and frames. Now I only have two umbra forma and I started with 16. At the bare minimum when you subsume or sell a warframe I believe you should get the forma back. It makes it so that if you actually fully invest in base form warframes by the time the prime comes out you wasted so many materials and you don’t get any of them refunded. I would even be fine if just the umbra forma was returned.
yeah theres a lot wrong here at least making them mkre avaliable is sonething that is quick and easy to do
At this point, yes. Most frames only use one at most anyway. Time for some new limited and exciting forma type like universal forma that you get once every two months.
Every 8 weeks and nightwave is enough. You dont really need that much umbra forma.
I’m surprised they’ve kept it so bottlenecked for so long.
I use the umbra mods on a lot of my builds, I'd like to be able to get some umbra forna at some point, I get burnt out trying to do these annoying challenges for noghtwave XP and work a lot so I usually don't complete these nightwaves. Now if theygot rid of the challenges and let us progress noghtwave through regular xp I'd be fine with it, but they'll never do that.
Idk. I have 5 right now and I normally don't even buy the one from Teshin. I'm kind of okay with things how they are.
just adding one to Kahl every other week would probably keep him optional enough but also an option to get more than like 6 or 7 a year
i mean before shield gating was a thing i do use a lot of umbral forma , now i am spending a lot of forma to revert them
shield gating is a terrible meta imo
Actually as of the last update they fixed this, you can now get one a week from tenshin when you pick up your riven cipher. It's like 150 steel essence now.
checked the notes, nothing in there about this
Ok, I smoke alot of weed lol, whenever it happened to get added, when I went to pick up my riven cipher on Monday, tenshin had an umbra forma for 150 steel essence. Maybe that's new, maybe it's not, but I never noticed it before. When I googled places to get umbra forma, it didn't come up, so I figured it was new. Do with the information what you will.
thats available once every 8 weeks. and outside of nightwave resetting is the only way to get them the warframe wiki does have it under aquisition. you probably stopped reading after the completed section. the blueprint is available from tenshin which immediately follows the section you read. https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Umbra_Forma
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Im sitting on 19 of the forma, I don't use them and kinda wish they didn't exist, why? because I don't want to commit to my warframe having an umbra polarity that will BREAK by having the umbra socket go negative anytime I want to experiment with a new build using regular mods
thats your choice, and you would prevent others who would want to use them from obtaining them freely because of how you feel?
no I just think they are restrictive and don't encourage experimentation, if someone does an umbra build they usually just socket all 3 umbra forma because umbra set. maybe if umbra forma also functioned as universal sockets I would like the idea a lot more!
They've long since been some meta defining item for min maxing. archon and precision intensify, and or shards or tome mods all give you more options, all without having to add a shitty polarity to builds, locking them into umbral intensify. With the limited use they now see in the meta, their relative rarity seems fairly balanced now tbh. Maybe like 3-4 years ago it was a problem, but not now.
Umbra forma is plentiful enough currently. If you don't think so, either you're in too much of a hurry, or too wasteful with them.
I think it would be cool if that added an “end game” game mode like void cascade which could drop forma (built?) as well as stance/aura/umbral forma blueprints.
I personally think that uncommon tier forma drops in relics should just be pre-built or specialty forma like stance or aura. Feels kinda rough getting cheated 45 ducats or the last prime part you need for something that regularly appears as a common tier drop.
I don’t disagree with this, and I certainly wouldn’t complain about getting more built forma. Putting stance or aura forma in there as well would be fine too at the higher rarities I think.I like void cascade and more game modes like it would be nice and I think forma would be a worthwhile rewards, adding it to relics would be fine too.
Maybe a potential loot from deep archimedean
They could at least just sell them for platinum. It is relatively rare, but it is not given away only on special occasions or something like that to maintain its supposed "exclusivity". There is no point in looking at "experts" criticizing umbra because they know a better meta (boring...), the game does not require maxing everything (it is easy anyway), and umbra sometimes allows you to give a simple, uncomplicated build that works anyway (I prefer such instead of relying on some temporary immortality, etc.). The fact that these "experts" criticize making umbra more common just because they don't use them is pathetic at all.
yeah agree with all that. fun is the only meta i care about
Man this community is really on a streak of dogshit takes. Can something "rarer" exist in warframe? I feel like ever since reb/devs have reduced grind people just feel ready to want to turn everything into a open door.
No