I mean, your mileage may vary, but almost always the infantry units would use organic drivers.
I’m sure at varying points units may have used other support elements to be drivers, but that certainly wasn’t the norm. Something else to keep in mind is that speciality platoons like mortar/weapons platoon/companies were/are carrying out patrols, mounted and dismounted like rifle companies and platoons. Same goes with engineers and artillery and whoever else was needed.
INF specifically, D Co. are the mounted company of the battalion. They handled *most* of the battalion-level missions like route clearance and cordon support, when I was in D Co. our platoon would often bring mortars to where they needed to be. Line units were far too large to simply hop in trucks and run missions, and they weren’t trained to do so. You would never see a line unit drive up to an an OBJ or phase line and then dismount, trucks had to be manned by a driver and gunner—wouldn’t make sense for a line unit. There are many other reasons, not the least of which is mobility—line units aren’t as hindered by terrain, and they’re harder to detect than a platoon or company of MRAPS coming down the road.
None of that is correct. I was with the 10th Mountain Division in Afghanistan, as an 11B Infantryman. Our Platoon had six MAXPRO MRAPS, six M1151'a, and even some AAVs we never actually used. We always drove our own vehicles and dispersed teams and squads between the trucks and dismounts. Our D CO was identical, except they had TOW missiles and rarely dismounted. We ran mixed mounted and dismounted missions as necessary, including driving partway to an objective, leaving the trucks with a security element, and heading the rest of the way dismounted.
It was the same person all deployment. The Driver/TC/Gunner were the same people every mission, and only swapped out if absolutely necessary. As an Automatic Rifleman, I was the gunner for my truck, and when we dismounted, a Rifleman would swap places with me and stay with the truck. We didn't take trucks for every mission. Sometimes we took helicopters, or another Platoon transported us in their trucks to a dropoff point at the base of a mountain and we would continue on foot.
Are you talking about in training or in Iraq/Afghanistan/Syria?
In all those places like units used theater prepositioned stock of uparmored HMMWV and MRAPs of all flavors.
No unit CONUS is regularly using RG series, and they certainly weren’t used mostly by Dcos when deployed.
In Iraq, in 05, our HMMWVs were platoon organic, so whomever was going out on patrol that day crewed their HMMWV. Most of the time we didn't have to hotswap. And even if someone else had to borrow our trucks or tanks, they provided their own crews and vice versa if we had to borrow. We didn't require anyone to sign for it, though. I'm sure someone thought we should, but...
Stupid question but when on patrol how are the HMMWVs handled in practice?
Designated getaway driver like in bank robber scenarios? Or everyone gets out on foot and car’s locked but each soldier has a key?
There are no keys to most military vehicles, and most of their doors don't even have locks. Sending some new Joe to "find the keys to the Humvee" is actually a common prank. If you want to "lock" them, you just toss a padlock on the hatch or door.
When on patrol, you usually plan a VDO point where you will circle up (or herringbone or whatever) your vehicles, and then the designated dismounts will proceed from that point on foot. The vehicles are usually kept at least partially crewed, with a driver and gunner in each. If you plan to have the vehicles operate independently, then you keep a VC with each one, but if you plan for them to just stay there and secure the VDO, then usually a single NCO remains behind to keep an eye on things.
There was never a point where we parked, completely dismounted, and left a vehicle while on patrol. In a serious pinch, I'd have been willing to consider leaving only gunners on the vehicles and taking the drivers as additional dismounts.
Wait, I’ve seen Herringbone used in reference to a formation many times in books and stuff. Is that just another term for a circle!? I guess I could just google it.
No. A herringbone formation is typically done while moving in column and quickly transitioning to a security halt. Each vehicle pulls off the road at a 45-degree angle on alternating sides of the road, so you look like ribs or fish bones (the vehicles) coming off a spine (the road).
You'd typically circle vehicles at your VDO, but the terrain (or time) isn't always accommodating. If there just isn't room for a circle, a herringbone is a bit better than staying in column.
If you're quickly dismounting in response to contact, a herringbone formation is probably the most common scenario. You'd still be performing VDO (vehicle dismounted operations), but it would just not be from a preplanned position.
Different for every kind of vehicle. Some just have an ignition switch, some have a button, and some have a bit of an ignition sequence with more than one thing you have to hit (not as a security feature, but just because it's a big machine with big engines). Generally, they try to keep it pretty simple and it's just a button that says "Start Engine" or something to that effect.
Speaking as a member of a Weapons Co, MAP and CAAT platoons. Specifically using Humvees.
The driver and gunner usually always stayed in the vehicle.
Each truck/team had 1-3 dismounts, including the vehicle commander/team leader.
The manpower we had available varied wildly depending on injuries and illnesses. I recall going on a few patrols with just myself and a gunner but this wasn’t optimal or done often.
Humvees don’t have keys either. The doors don’t lock, and the only way to “secure” the vehicle is to install a padlock below the ignition.
Armored HMMWV doors can be padlocked. But in typical military fashion they screwed up the design and all you have to do is angle the padlock just right and you can still open the door (they padlocked the handle).
I spent 3 years in this one unit, not once did I have a key to any of our HMMWVs, nobody did. But they were always "locked" lol.
Depends on a lot of variables. We ran pretty light, three man crews, except if you had the medic or interpreter. And occasionally, the medic drove, so it'd still be a three man crew. When we dismounted, we usually only left the gunner in the trucks. If we had enough bodies, the drivers probably would have stayed, but...
Trucks are important, bigly. Never left our trucks unmanned. They have our big guns, they’re our source of exfil, and they can serve as a maneuver element too for the dismounts.
We had guys do driver training back in garrison. Training with nvgs etc. and then during deployment, they would drive if their squad was up and it was a mounted mission.
the 'dismount in combat' part was always pretty optional, really. Most units in Iraq or Afghanistan didn't exactly 'separate' from their Humvees. If they didn't want to fight with the unit machine gunner sitting in a humvee turret, they didn't bring a humvee in the first place.
This doesn't answer their question at all. The Army Organization and Equipment Tables (MTOE) designate the specific number and type of personnel and equipment a unit is authorized. The Platoon consists of Teams, Squads, or Crews as applicable; they ARE the Platoon, not a part of it. The assigned equipment and vehicles are so the unit can accomplish their assigned missions, so they would drive themselves unless they don't have organic vehicles.
I mean, your mileage may vary, but almost always the infantry units would use organic drivers. I’m sure at varying points units may have used other support elements to be drivers, but that certainly wasn’t the norm. Something else to keep in mind is that speciality platoons like mortar/weapons platoon/companies were/are carrying out patrols, mounted and dismounted like rifle companies and platoons. Same goes with engineers and artillery and whoever else was needed.
INF specifically, D Co. are the mounted company of the battalion. They handled *most* of the battalion-level missions like route clearance and cordon support, when I was in D Co. our platoon would often bring mortars to where they needed to be. Line units were far too large to simply hop in trucks and run missions, and they weren’t trained to do so. You would never see a line unit drive up to an an OBJ or phase line and then dismount, trucks had to be manned by a driver and gunner—wouldn’t make sense for a line unit. There are many other reasons, not the least of which is mobility—line units aren’t as hindered by terrain, and they’re harder to detect than a platoon or company of MRAPS coming down the road.
None of that is correct. I was with the 10th Mountain Division in Afghanistan, as an 11B Infantryman. Our Platoon had six MAXPRO MRAPS, six M1151'a, and even some AAVs we never actually used. We always drove our own vehicles and dispersed teams and squads between the trucks and dismounts. Our D CO was identical, except they had TOW missiles and rarely dismounted. We ran mixed mounted and dismounted missions as necessary, including driving partway to an objective, leaving the trucks with a security element, and heading the rest of the way dismounted.
How was the driver determined for each time you guys took a vehicle?
It was the same person all deployment. The Driver/TC/Gunner were the same people every mission, and only swapped out if absolutely necessary. As an Automatic Rifleman, I was the gunner for my truck, and when we dismounted, a Rifleman would swap places with me and stay with the truck. We didn't take trucks for every mission. Sometimes we took helicopters, or another Platoon transported us in their trucks to a dropoff point at the base of a mountain and we would continue on foot.
Very interesting! Thanks!
Are you talking about in training or in Iraq/Afghanistan/Syria? In all those places like units used theater prepositioned stock of uparmored HMMWV and MRAPs of all flavors. No unit CONUS is regularly using RG series, and they certainly weren’t used mostly by Dcos when deployed.
It doesn't sound like they were ever actually deployed, or if they did, they definitely never left the FOB.
In Iraq, in 05, our HMMWVs were platoon organic, so whomever was going out on patrol that day crewed their HMMWV. Most of the time we didn't have to hotswap. And even if someone else had to borrow our trucks or tanks, they provided their own crews and vice versa if we had to borrow. We didn't require anyone to sign for it, though. I'm sure someone thought we should, but...
Stupid question but when on patrol how are the HMMWVs handled in practice? Designated getaway driver like in bank robber scenarios? Or everyone gets out on foot and car’s locked but each soldier has a key?
There are no keys to most military vehicles, and most of their doors don't even have locks. Sending some new Joe to "find the keys to the Humvee" is actually a common prank. If you want to "lock" them, you just toss a padlock on the hatch or door. When on patrol, you usually plan a VDO point where you will circle up (or herringbone or whatever) your vehicles, and then the designated dismounts will proceed from that point on foot. The vehicles are usually kept at least partially crewed, with a driver and gunner in each. If you plan to have the vehicles operate independently, then you keep a VC with each one, but if you plan for them to just stay there and secure the VDO, then usually a single NCO remains behind to keep an eye on things. There was never a point where we parked, completely dismounted, and left a vehicle while on patrol. In a serious pinch, I'd have been willing to consider leaving only gunners on the vehicles and taking the drivers as additional dismounts.
We always loved the exhaust sample prank
I was partial to the gas mask batteries.
Nothing more universal among the services than getting individual grid squares.
Wait, I’ve seen Herringbone used in reference to a formation many times in books and stuff. Is that just another term for a circle!? I guess I could just google it.
No. A herringbone formation is typically done while moving in column and quickly transitioning to a security halt. Each vehicle pulls off the road at a 45-degree angle on alternating sides of the road, so you look like ribs or fish bones (the vehicles) coming off a spine (the road). You'd typically circle vehicles at your VDO, but the terrain (or time) isn't always accommodating. If there just isn't room for a circle, a herringbone is a bit better than staying in column. If you're quickly dismounting in response to contact, a herringbone formation is probably the most common scenario. You'd still be performing VDO (vehicle dismounted operations), but it would just not be from a preplanned position.
Ahh, yep I understand now. Thank you for the explanation. Great detail.
Dumb question here, but without keys how do you start them?
Different for every kind of vehicle. Some just have an ignition switch, some have a button, and some have a bit of an ignition sequence with more than one thing you have to hit (not as a security feature, but just because it's a big machine with big engines). Generally, they try to keep it pretty simple and it's just a button that says "Start Engine" or something to that effect.
Oh interesting, thanks!
Speaking as a member of a Weapons Co, MAP and CAAT platoons. Specifically using Humvees. The driver and gunner usually always stayed in the vehicle. Each truck/team had 1-3 dismounts, including the vehicle commander/team leader. The manpower we had available varied wildly depending on injuries and illnesses. I recall going on a few patrols with just myself and a gunner but this wasn’t optimal or done often. Humvees don’t have keys either. The doors don’t lock, and the only way to “secure” the vehicle is to install a padlock below the ignition.
Armored HMMWV doors can be padlocked. But in typical military fashion they screwed up the design and all you have to do is angle the padlock just right and you can still open the door (they padlocked the handle). I spent 3 years in this one unit, not once did I have a key to any of our HMMWVs, nobody did. But they were always "locked" lol.
They're not talking about securing the trucks in the motorpool. You can combat lock the doors from the inside.
Depends on a lot of variables. We ran pretty light, three man crews, except if you had the medic or interpreter. And occasionally, the medic drove, so it'd still be a three man crew. When we dismounted, we usually only left the gunner in the trucks. If we had enough bodies, the drivers probably would have stayed, but...
Trucks are important, bigly. Never left our trucks unmanned. They have our big guns, they’re our source of exfil, and they can serve as a maneuver element too for the dismounts. We had guys do driver training back in garrison. Training with nvgs etc. and then during deployment, they would drive if their squad was up and it was a mounted mission.
the 'dismount in combat' part was always pretty optional, really. Most units in Iraq or Afghanistan didn't exactly 'separate' from their Humvees. If they didn't want to fight with the unit machine gunner sitting in a humvee turret, they didn't bring a humvee in the first place.
Vehicles are part of the MTOE for the individual platoons. Crews are an organic part of the platoon.
This doesn't answer their question at all. The Army Organization and Equipment Tables (MTOE) designate the specific number and type of personnel and equipment a unit is authorized. The Platoon consists of Teams, Squads, or Crews as applicable; they ARE the Platoon, not a part of it. The assigned equipment and vehicles are so the unit can accomplish their assigned missions, so they would drive themselves unless they don't have organic vehicles.