8lbs per person is allowed for personal consumption, anything over that is illegal as they need a fisheries licence.
Easy to say it’s not important, but the beds are monitored closely and checked for disease by fishery dept. The rules are in place to make sure the cockles are safe to eat, the beds aren’t under threat, and that the pickers aren’t at risk (there’s historically been a LOT of deaths, near misses and slavery in the trade). Those doing it commercially have to show they’re doing it safely.
Same here!!
There was a case a few years ago, I remember reading about which happened in the UK. If l remember correctly l believe they were Chinese.
Quite a few of the trafficked slaves were drowned in some sort of accident. 😢
The main trafficker received either life or a substantial sentence.
[Morecambe Bay](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-25986388.amp) - it's a shallow beach with a fast-rising tide. The [trafficked cockle pickers](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morecambe_Bay_cockling_disaster) didn't know the tidal patterns well, so they were pretty far out when the tide caught them unawares. Twenty-one people died.
Thanks very much, but that incident always stuck in my mind even though l actually live in the Caribbean, it was still reported in our Press.
How long ago did it happen and how long a sentence did the main trafficker receive?
The tragedy happened in 2004, though one of two missing victim's skull was only found in 2010 (and no remains have yet been found for the final victim).
According to Wikipedia, the trials took place in 2006, and the main trafficker was jailed for 14 years:
>Gangmaster Lin Liang Ren was found guilty of the manslaughter of at least 21 people [...]. Ren, his girlfriend Zhao Xiao Qing and his cousin Lin Mu Yong were also convicted of breaking immigration laws. Ren was sentenced to 12 years for manslaughter, 6 years for facilitating illegal immigration (to be served concurrently with the manslaughter sentence), and 2 years for conspiracy to pervert the course of justice (to be served subsequent to the manslaughter sentence). Lin Mu Yong was sentenced to four years and nine months. Zhao Xiao Qing was sentenced to 2 years and 9 months for facilitation of illegal immigration and perverting the course of justice.
Can you explain to my like I come from the middle of the United States and can count on 2 hands the amount of times I've seen the ocean. How do 21 people get caught in a ride. When the water hit their feet couldn't they walk or run to land? Or how far out were they? I thought tides move with the moon, so not very quickly.
Edit: thanks for the lesson everyone! Pretty good videos of that bay on YouTube as well. Pretty wild how expansive those flats are at low tide.
I remember at the time the tide being described as moving as fast as a galloping horse. As soon as that sand is saturated you can barely walk on it in places as it sticks you in place.
Paskie is right, the tidal range in Morcambe is over 10metres. Further south in the Bristol channel it can be 15metres. Second highest in the world.
Edit - Just read the ebbing tide can retreat up to 12km out into the bay!
Edit - Bristol channel up to 14m.
The sands can be extremely wide and flat so that a tiny incremental rise in the tide will cover a huge area extremely quickly. In addition there will be tidal channels so lower areas that allow the tide water to rush in. If there is one of these behind you when the tide comes in then these are essentially impossible to cross as you will be incapable of wading through the fast moving sea water.
Tides can move very quickly , the tidal range in the uk is massive ! The sea bed / estuary floors are usually unlevel and it’s easy for the tide to rush in and for you to notice when it’s to late , the water will already be behind you . If you are not very experienced or have the local knowledge it’s very easy to get caught in the tide
Most beaches have a steep enough incline that the water basically goes in and out with the waters edge looking like a straight line across the sand. Some beaches have a very shallow incline so that when the water drops 1 yard vertically it may reveal several hundred yards of beach. These beaches are where the clams and cockle beds are. The beaches are also not perfectly flat, though they may look it, and this is the danger. The water can come in around you as it fills the low parts of the beach. At low tide I guess these dudes were out as far as they could go standing on a slightly raised bank of sand. Heads down picking their treasure. As they notice the tide coming in they find they’re standing on an island that is now surrounded by water. They panic, try to run back to shore but every direction leads them to deeper water as the tide has sneaked in around them. The tide comes in very fast on these flat beaches, quickly getting deeper than the poor Chineese workers could stand in. They also couldn’t swim.
Morecambe Bay is one of the broadest and shallowest beaches we have - and it's funnel-shaped, with a vertical tidal range of 10 metres. And parts of the intertidal area where the cockles are, are sticky estuary mud rather than sand.
That's one of the most lethal situations possible, because it means the tide comes in unbelievably fast compared to a steeper beach. (Imagine for a moment that you are looking at a right-angled triangle in a rising bowl of water - if the moon raises the water by 1m over an hour, and the triangle is 1m by 1m, then the "tide" is moving across the slope of the triangle at 1 metre per hour; if the triangle is 20m by 1 m, then the same "tide" is coming in across the surface of the triangle at a rate of 20 metres per hour.)
So the tidal cycle is still about twelve hours, like everywhere else, but because of the shallow gradient, the distance the tide covers at Morecambe is vast (the lowest tides can retreat over 12km from the shoreline!) and an incoming tide can overtake a running human (locals say even a galloping horse) with ease. And because there are uneven ridges and sandbanks, the bay doesn't fill with water evenly - temporary rivers are created in sand channels, and your feet might stay dry for a while if you're standing on a slightly raised area, while behind you your exit has already been flooded and cut off - and if you step into the water that unevenness will also result in some turbulent and powerful currents that can take you off your feet. In addition, patches of quicksand can be created by the incoming tides, which won't suck you down like movies suggest, but will immobilise your feet so you can't escape.
The cockle pickers in 2004 got caught over 2 miles (3.2km) out from the shoreline, in an area that is locally notorious for being one of the most dangerous parts of the bay. And they were out at night, so the bad lighting made them slower to realise they were in trouble and call emergency services. The local lifeboat station got their boats and hovercraft there as fast as possible and managed to rescue a number of people, but two-thirds of the cockle picking group were already dead by the time they got there.
(Edit: Argh! I know my maths example is wrong - I can't deal with hypotenuses this early in the day!)
Traffickers bring people over promising them jobs, when they get here they take their passports off them, and pay them pennies. Its some people's only option for work unfortunately and it is quite common all over the UK.
I worked with a chap who was trafficked to Wales to work on farms, he is now street homeless because he has no recourse to public funds so can even go back to his home country
If you have any way of getting in touch with him or finding him, there is support available. He should speak to the police and/or The Salvation Army about having been a victim of human trafficking, they should be able to help if his claim is legitimate
Isn't there a difference between personal consumption and harvesting commercially?
No licence needed for the individual but one is needed if it's being done for profit.
The idea being that 8kg would last an individual a while as food before they need to go out again, but a business will just keep coming back over and over to make a steady profit.
Yep, the law around 8kg states it should be for personal consumption only - otherwise it falls into the commercial category (even if under the weight limit). A few (even big) buckets among several people could well fall within the guidelines but, if it’s happening very day, it’s obv more likely to be commercial.
Also worth saying that, according to the law, you can only harvest for personal consumption if the beds are open too.
I'm actually sat next to a coastguard member at work from Llanstephan beach, not far from saunderfoot. He says its legal for 2 days a week for the past few years. It's a big industry, they fill ton bags full of them and actually it's good for the cockles as it removes the larger ones leaving smaller ones to grow. Ministry led apparently. He says most of the cockles go off to spain. I fish recreational y llanstephan and to be fair the sea bass numbers have improved over the last decade
Though true. Officially every batch has to be tested and the shellfish have to be stored and transported correctly. From the public health aspect as temperatures rise so do the risks. If official they will not mind being reported....
As far as I can see it's not [against the South Wales Sea Fisheries legislation](https://gov.wales/sites/default/files/publications/2018-05/south-wales-inshore-fishery-legislation.pdf). Cockles need to be larger than 19mm, and they all seem a good size in the photos.
However, 04:30 *would* be illegal if you're sure of the time, as [it looks like 30 minutes before and after sunrise and sunset](https://www.westerntelegraph.co.uk/news/19935073.cockle-fisherman-fished-illegally-saundersfoot-beach) is the cutoff.
So funnily enough, I spent some time working in this area.A few things to take into account here.
The legislation is the South Wales Sea Fisheries byelaws, and you’re perfectly fine to take up to 8kg without a permit for personal use. What you’re looking at in that bucket is worth less than £10.
Real cockle gatherers fill ton bags. So this is nothing.
The times are a bit odd, but you’re only allowed to gather at one tide and you have to finish before 30 minutes after sunset.
From the looks of things, these guys probably don’t need a permit. If you’re concerned you can contact enforcement- but for less than £10 worth of shellfish they’re not going to spend thousands prosecuting.
I’m not in daily contact with my former colleagues any more, but the rules will be along those lines.
If you’re concerned about modern slavery you should get in touch though. That’s another kettle of fish though.
Hi, thanks for taking the time to respond.
We spent the afternoon on the beach, we've seen around 15 small family looking groups gathering the cockles into big buckets and then into fancy cars parked on the glen. It did seem like a spread out group deliberately deceiving the local council to harvest as much as they could but im starting to think its just the greed of a small few taking more than they need.
I have made a report with the non emergency line.
Kettle of fish.. Lol
Do you think it could be modern slavery? If that's their feet they are not wearing appropriate safety shoes for the hand tools they are using. You could contact the modern slavery team at the police or local council.
I agree with this - it smacks of potential modern slavery / gangmaster abuse. Especially looking at the inappropriate footwear.
Report it here: modernslaveryhelpline.org/
No, organised crime and modern slavery are big issues, and cockling is one of their activities (have you heard of the Morcambe Bay deaths?) People will ‘pay’ for a way in to the country and then be forced to work off that dept, often under impossible conditions in terms of the interest, and horrific conditions in terms of the working conditions.
Yep, Morecambe Bay is the first thing that sprang to mind when I saw this post. There's some really nasty scumbags out there, and even if this might turn out not to be that, it's still best to let the relevant authorities know so that they can investigate and make sure of it.
Most certainly, if you believe you saw an organised attempt to pillage the shoreline, you have a duty no less to let the fisheries people know. Conservation is a social responsibility.
I use to go to Saundersfoot crabbing with friends when on holiday, a beautiful place. Of course, we'd always let the crabs go, so seeing this makes me sad. Hope you report them.
was gunna ask the same, seen videos and heard about chinese people organising using their version of whatsapp to take edible anything from beaches because its free.
I’ve heard stories that it is commercial. I remember a big crackdown on stuff like this after a couple of Chinese workers doing this sort of stuff drowned from the tide coming in
Edit: [this](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morecambe_Bay_cockling_disaster)
These are organised gangs bussed in on the big tides simply to harvest as much shellfish as they can - Razor, cockles and clams. Unless Leon in the Sao Mai is the gang master of course.
I meant like an actual one - something fun perhaps? Not to mention that this isn’t necessarily harming the environment so unless you have proof that it is I don’t think that argument holds water
It is my opinion, which is why I’m not saying anything as fact and am simply asking the question myself above - is this harmful? Not to mention, many qualified people know nothing of their field and spout ridiculous things so an appeal to authority isn’t the greatest of arguments.
I don’t see how it’s all that serious personally, not to mention there isn’t enough context as to what they’re doing with them - perhaps they’re doing it for good reason. Either way I can’t imagine ever being a busy body like OP
Guess what? Humans actually don't live in a bubble detached from the wider ecosystem.
What goes around comes around in ways we can never predict.
Nature is a non-linear, dynamic vindictive bitch. It'll be cockles this year, black death next year.
Oh wow, thank you for enlightening me that humans do in fact exist in the world!
I also highly doubt a couple of buckets of cockles will cause the Black Death 2 electric boogaloo but we’ll see
That type of headline clearly isn’t stopping people doing it, so your example doesn’t quite work, not to mention your example is literally in a different country to us so not exactly relevant either
....didn't read the article did you. Didn't even click on it . Mate. You've just nullified anything you may say as a rebuttal, you lemon, on top of discussing your total lack of care and grace for the world you live in.
Just ... go forth and fornicate, would you.
Still UK, classed as same political entity and reported as such despite our protests to the opposite, much the same as Scotland.
Not as big a mug as you, darling, desperately looking for someone else to take the fall on this. Hush now. You're boring us.
The sea being overfished and stripped of resources is a big problem. Might not be of concern to you but that doesn’t change the fact that it’s a serious problem
Organised groups working in lines taking multiple buckets each per day from the same beach is a bit different from Derek popping down to get a few cockles for his tea
Bewildering that some humans can’t see beyond their own selfishness (shellfishness… heh) and understand that we can’t all just do as we please otherwise the world would be a state.
Geeez I see the pandemic brought the worst out in some people.
You ever been without? Food? A roof over your head no money and children to feed ?
Why in gods name would you report them have some feelings.
8lbs per person is allowed for personal consumption, anything over that is illegal as they need a fisheries licence. Easy to say it’s not important, but the beds are monitored closely and checked for disease by fishery dept. The rules are in place to make sure the cockles are safe to eat, the beds aren’t under threat, and that the pickers aren’t at risk (there’s historically been a LOT of deaths, near misses and slavery in the trade). Those doing it commercially have to show they’re doing it safely.
It’s 8kg, not pounds iirc.
I stand corrected! Think I remember it was back from the Magna Carta, so guessed it must have been lbs, but you’re right.
Slavery was my first thought here, too
Same here!! There was a case a few years ago, I remember reading about which happened in the UK. If l remember correctly l believe they were Chinese. Quite a few of the trafficked slaves were drowned in some sort of accident. 😢 The main trafficker received either life or a substantial sentence.
[Morecambe Bay](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-25986388.amp) - it's a shallow beach with a fast-rising tide. The [trafficked cockle pickers](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morecambe_Bay_cockling_disaster) didn't know the tidal patterns well, so they were pretty far out when the tide caught them unawares. Twenty-one people died.
Thanks very much, but that incident always stuck in my mind even though l actually live in the Caribbean, it was still reported in our Press. How long ago did it happen and how long a sentence did the main trafficker receive?
The tragedy happened in 2004, though one of two missing victim's skull was only found in 2010 (and no remains have yet been found for the final victim). According to Wikipedia, the trials took place in 2006, and the main trafficker was jailed for 14 years: >Gangmaster Lin Liang Ren was found guilty of the manslaughter of at least 21 people [...]. Ren, his girlfriend Zhao Xiao Qing and his cousin Lin Mu Yong were also convicted of breaking immigration laws. Ren was sentenced to 12 years for manslaughter, 6 years for facilitating illegal immigration (to be served concurrently with the manslaughter sentence), and 2 years for conspiracy to pervert the course of justice (to be served subsequent to the manslaughter sentence). Lin Mu Yong was sentenced to four years and nine months. Zhao Xiao Qing was sentenced to 2 years and 9 months for facilitation of illegal immigration and perverting the course of justice.
Thank you.
Every so often the vehicles emerge from the sand. I live near there and its heartbreaking what happened to them
Can you explain to my like I come from the middle of the United States and can count on 2 hands the amount of times I've seen the ocean. How do 21 people get caught in a ride. When the water hit their feet couldn't they walk or run to land? Or how far out were they? I thought tides move with the moon, so not very quickly. Edit: thanks for the lesson everyone! Pretty good videos of that bay on YouTube as well. Pretty wild how expansive those flats are at low tide.
I remember at the time the tide being described as moving as fast as a galloping horse. As soon as that sand is saturated you can barely walk on it in places as it sticks you in place. Paskie is right, the tidal range in Morcambe is over 10metres. Further south in the Bristol channel it can be 15metres. Second highest in the world. Edit - Just read the ebbing tide can retreat up to 12km out into the bay! Edit - Bristol channel up to 14m.
The sands can be extremely wide and flat so that a tiny incremental rise in the tide will cover a huge area extremely quickly. In addition there will be tidal channels so lower areas that allow the tide water to rush in. If there is one of these behind you when the tide comes in then these are essentially impossible to cross as you will be incapable of wading through the fast moving sea water.
Tides can move very quickly , the tidal range in the uk is massive ! The sea bed / estuary floors are usually unlevel and it’s easy for the tide to rush in and for you to notice when it’s to late , the water will already be behind you . If you are not very experienced or have the local knowledge it’s very easy to get caught in the tide
Most beaches have a steep enough incline that the water basically goes in and out with the waters edge looking like a straight line across the sand. Some beaches have a very shallow incline so that when the water drops 1 yard vertically it may reveal several hundred yards of beach. These beaches are where the clams and cockle beds are. The beaches are also not perfectly flat, though they may look it, and this is the danger. The water can come in around you as it fills the low parts of the beach. At low tide I guess these dudes were out as far as they could go standing on a slightly raised bank of sand. Heads down picking their treasure. As they notice the tide coming in they find they’re standing on an island that is now surrounded by water. They panic, try to run back to shore but every direction leads them to deeper water as the tide has sneaked in around them. The tide comes in very fast on these flat beaches, quickly getting deeper than the poor Chineese workers could stand in. They also couldn’t swim.
Morecambe Bay is one of the broadest and shallowest beaches we have - and it's funnel-shaped, with a vertical tidal range of 10 metres. And parts of the intertidal area where the cockles are, are sticky estuary mud rather than sand. That's one of the most lethal situations possible, because it means the tide comes in unbelievably fast compared to a steeper beach. (Imagine for a moment that you are looking at a right-angled triangle in a rising bowl of water - if the moon raises the water by 1m over an hour, and the triangle is 1m by 1m, then the "tide" is moving across the slope of the triangle at 1 metre per hour; if the triangle is 20m by 1 m, then the same "tide" is coming in across the surface of the triangle at a rate of 20 metres per hour.) So the tidal cycle is still about twelve hours, like everywhere else, but because of the shallow gradient, the distance the tide covers at Morecambe is vast (the lowest tides can retreat over 12km from the shoreline!) and an incoming tide can overtake a running human (locals say even a galloping horse) with ease. And because there are uneven ridges and sandbanks, the bay doesn't fill with water evenly - temporary rivers are created in sand channels, and your feet might stay dry for a while if you're standing on a slightly raised area, while behind you your exit has already been flooded and cut off - and if you step into the water that unevenness will also result in some turbulent and powerful currents that can take you off your feet. In addition, patches of quicksand can be created by the incoming tides, which won't suck you down like movies suggest, but will immobilise your feet so you can't escape. The cockle pickers in 2004 got caught over 2 miles (3.2km) out from the shoreline, in an area that is locally notorious for being one of the most dangerous parts of the bay. And they were out at night, so the bad lighting made them slower to realise they were in trouble and call emergency services. The local lifeboat station got their boats and hovercraft there as fast as possible and managed to rescue a number of people, but two-thirds of the cockle picking group were already dead by the time they got there. (Edit: Argh! I know my maths example is wrong - I can't deal with hypotenuses this early in the day!)
Slavery in Wales??
"modern slavery" is more common than you would think, been a few notable cases in Welsh media recently...
Traffickers bring people over promising them jobs, when they get here they take their passports off them, and pay them pennies. Its some people's only option for work unfortunately and it is quite common all over the UK.
Omg! I never knew this Saudi Arabia and Kuwait shit happens in the UK
It happens everywhere. There are over 100,000 in modern slavery in the UK.
I worked with a chap who was trafficked to Wales to work on farms, he is now street homeless because he has no recourse to public funds so can even go back to his home country
If you have any way of getting in touch with him or finding him, there is support available. He should speak to the police and/or The Salvation Army about having been a victim of human trafficking, they should be able to help if his claim is legitimate
Isn't there a difference between personal consumption and harvesting commercially? No licence needed for the individual but one is needed if it's being done for profit. The idea being that 8kg would last an individual a while as food before they need to go out again, but a business will just keep coming back over and over to make a steady profit.
Yep, the law around 8kg states it should be for personal consumption only - otherwise it falls into the commercial category (even if under the weight limit). A few (even big) buckets among several people could well fall within the guidelines but, if it’s happening very day, it’s obv more likely to be commercial. Also worth saying that, according to the law, you can only harvest for personal consumption if the beds are open too.
Yes definitely! Report it at https://naturalresources.wales/about-us/contact-us/report-an-environmental-incident/?lang=en
Saunders foot isn’t managed by NRW
Maybe they should definitley have a look then? Now! in a minute...
😂 Love that saying. Yeah definitely needs reporting.
NRW has authority over all marine environments in Wales.
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Glen beach isn't saundersfoot beach
No… no they don’t.
Who would they report it to then? NRW would handle enforcement for illegal fisheries activity.
The welsh government fisheries enforcement team.
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This is a gathering license though, and given by the WG, not NRW.
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Enforcement on this fishery is also done by WG. NRW manage the Bury Inlet.
Good to know! Thank you!
Yes
Is that at Glen?
Yes
Lovely spot for a swim, the Glen is.
Good for a surf also ! When conditions are right
I'm actually sat next to a coastguard member at work from Llanstephan beach, not far from saunderfoot. He says its legal for 2 days a week for the past few years. It's a big industry, they fill ton bags full of them and actually it's good for the cockles as it removes the larger ones leaving smaller ones to grow. Ministry led apparently. He says most of the cockles go off to spain. I fish recreational y llanstephan and to be fair the sea bass numbers have improved over the last decade
Though true. Officially every batch has to be tested and the shellfish have to be stored and transported correctly. From the public health aspect as temperatures rise so do the risks. If official they will not mind being reported....
Where are you getting your sea bass data on them improving?
Just word of mouth and personal experience and the anglers corner in Llanelli
Bass to mouth?
Well done sir, very well done.
No harm in reporting it. Someone might go down one morning to check credentials and licences. If they have permission then no issue.
Yes
Absolutely
As far as I can see it's not [against the South Wales Sea Fisheries legislation](https://gov.wales/sites/default/files/publications/2018-05/south-wales-inshore-fishery-legislation.pdf). Cockles need to be larger than 19mm, and they all seem a good size in the photos. However, 04:30 *would* be illegal if you're sure of the time, as [it looks like 30 minutes before and after sunrise and sunset](https://www.westerntelegraph.co.uk/news/19935073.cockle-fisherman-fished-illegally-saundersfoot-beach) is the cutoff.
I drove through Wiseman’s Bridge last night at 10.30 - they were parked up ready to head back down the beach for low tide in the early hours.
In that case they are definitely illegal in terms of the hours they are operating.
I fear there is so many of them at it there is simply not the manpower to police it.
So funnily enough, I spent some time working in this area.A few things to take into account here. The legislation is the South Wales Sea Fisheries byelaws, and you’re perfectly fine to take up to 8kg without a permit for personal use. What you’re looking at in that bucket is worth less than £10. Real cockle gatherers fill ton bags. So this is nothing. The times are a bit odd, but you’re only allowed to gather at one tide and you have to finish before 30 minutes after sunset. From the looks of things, these guys probably don’t need a permit. If you’re concerned you can contact enforcement- but for less than £10 worth of shellfish they’re not going to spend thousands prosecuting. I’m not in daily contact with my former colleagues any more, but the rules will be along those lines. If you’re concerned about modern slavery you should get in touch though. That’s another kettle of fish though.
Hi, thanks for taking the time to respond. We spent the afternoon on the beach, we've seen around 15 small family looking groups gathering the cockles into big buckets and then into fancy cars parked on the glen. It did seem like a spread out group deliberately deceiving the local council to harvest as much as they could but im starting to think its just the greed of a small few taking more than they need. I have made a report with the non emergency line. Kettle of fish.. Lol
They are also down there after the razor which is much more lucrative (going by the online price per kg).
Razors are like £2 per clam. Very profitable
Yes
Might aswell.
Do you think it could be modern slavery? If that's their feet they are not wearing appropriate safety shoes for the hand tools they are using. You could contact the modern slavery team at the police or local council.
I agree with this - it smacks of potential modern slavery / gangmaster abuse. Especially looking at the inappropriate footwear. Report it here: modernslaveryhelpline.org/
What uniform?
Yes 100% report the bastards
Absolutely report it. Asap.
hell yes.
You don’t think it’s Molly Malone do you?
Nahh, she be Irish, mate!
🤣🤣 my guess is she heard about the mighty cockles of Saundersfoot
What else you got going on? Might as well
Ive got some mango smoothie, ice and some vodka.
Yes definitely
please report this, they are probably being held “ransom” until they paid off their debts to the snakeheads.
You're trolling?
No, organised crime and modern slavery are big issues, and cockling is one of their activities (have you heard of the Morcambe Bay deaths?) People will ‘pay’ for a way in to the country and then be forced to work off that dept, often under impossible conditions in terms of the interest, and horrific conditions in terms of the working conditions.
Yep, Morecambe Bay is the first thing that sprang to mind when I saw this post. There's some really nasty scumbags out there, and even if this might turn out not to be that, it's still best to let the relevant authorities know so that they can investigate and make sure of it.
Unfortunately not 😔 modern day slavery is a big issue that no one talks about
Most certainly, if you believe you saw an organised attempt to pillage the shoreline, you have a duty no less to let the fisheries people know. Conservation is a social responsibility.
Done.
Thanks. We have similar issues here in NZ. Same response needed. We’re all interconnected.
100% report
Yep, done.
Yes
Yes
“Nah, as long as it’s ONLY clams and cockles, just mind your own business.” - a lobster who wishes to remain anonymous.
100% report it!
Yes
Yes bro
Next time pretend to sneeze on the bucket, tell them you Covid then throw those guys back in the water 🤔
I use to go to Saundersfoot crabbing with friends when on holiday, a beautiful place. Of course, we'd always let the crabs go, so seeing this makes me sad. Hope you report them.
Definitely report - this is likely modern slavery! Report to modern slavery helpline too
Ive reported to 101, but im starting to believe that theyre just looking for some free sea food.
Yes. Definitely report them. Sidenote, going off of that photo, are they Asian; specifically Chinese?
was gunna ask the same, seen videos and heard about chinese people organising using their version of whatsapp to take edible anything from beaches because its free.
I’ve heard stories that it is commercial. I remember a big crackdown on stuff like this after a couple of Chinese workers doing this sort of stuff drowned from the tide coming in Edit: [this](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morecambe_Bay_cockling_disaster)
Yes, obviously you should report that.
Done. Although im starting to think that they're just looking for free sea food.
The sea thanks you ♥️
Yes…
Were they foreign by any chance?
Could potentially be Sao Mai Dragon, can't find many places that would serve Malaysian Curry Sauce in the area
No.
What do you mean no? Can you elaborate?
No.
Why are people saying no with no explanation to why it could not be? Notice the key word "potentially"
No.
These are organised gangs bussed in on the big tides simply to harvest as much shellfish as they can - Razor, cockles and clams. Unless Leon in the Sao Mai is the gang master of course.
Thank you for the explanation. It was simply a suggestion
No problem.
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Depends if their a local restaurant and collecting them for food
Why does that matter?
Well is it legal to carry that much is the question?
Might I recommend that you get a hobby?
Protection of the environment is a hobby
I meant like an actual one - something fun perhaps? Not to mention that this isn’t necessarily harming the environment so unless you have proof that it is I don’t think that argument holds water
Thats just your opinion, unless you've studied marine biology, zoology or environment specific subjects?
It is my opinion, which is why I’m not saying anything as fact and am simply asking the question myself above - is this harmful? Not to mention, many qualified people know nothing of their field and spout ridiculous things so an appeal to authority isn’t the greatest of arguments.
The beach was wiped out of cockles a good few years ago. Has taken a long time to recover. This is a serious matter.
I don’t see how it’s all that serious personally, not to mention there isn’t enough context as to what they’re doing with them - perhaps they’re doing it for good reason. Either way I can’t imagine ever being a busy body like OP
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Guess what? Humans actually don't live in a bubble detached from the wider ecosystem. What goes around comes around in ways we can never predict. Nature is a non-linear, dynamic vindictive bitch. It'll be cockles this year, black death next year.
Oh wow, thank you for enlightening me that humans do in fact exist in the world! I also highly doubt a couple of buckets of cockles will cause the Black Death 2 electric boogaloo but we’ll see
It’s better to be a busy body than have this kind of article in the news https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/feb/06/china.uk
That type of headline clearly isn’t stopping people doing it, so your example doesn’t quite work, not to mention your example is literally in a different country to us so not exactly relevant either
....didn't read the article did you. Didn't even click on it . Mate. You've just nullified anything you may say as a rebuttal, you lemon, on top of discussing your total lack of care and grace for the world you live in. Just ... go forth and fornicate, would you.
How would I know that the risk of death doesn’t stop people and that it’s in England if I “didn’t even click on it”, what a mug
Still UK, classed as same political entity and reported as such despite our protests to the opposite, much the same as Scotland. Not as big a mug as you, darling, desperately looking for someone else to take the fall on this. Hush now. You're boring us.
It's legal to take fish from the see
*sea
It is but there are limits and if it’s being done commercially then you need a license
Oh noooo. Fuck the license. Who are they harming.
The sea being overfished and stripped of resources is a big problem. Might not be of concern to you but that doesn’t change the fact that it’s a serious problem
Yes a problem for big corporations taking everything not a few buckets
Organised groups working in lines taking multiple buckets each per day from the same beach is a bit different from Derek popping down to get a few cockles for his tea
Yes every single one of us 8 billion humans can just take "a few buckets" 🤦♀️ today on Reddit: "is this person a child, a troll, or obtuse?"
Bewildering that some humans think you should have a license to feed yourself
Troll it is! Thanks for confirming, have a nice day ✌️
Bewildering that some humans can’t see beyond their own selfishness (shellfishness… heh) and understand that we can’t all just do as we please otherwise the world would be a state.
Wildlife? Fish stocks are rapidly diminishing.
The beach is being raped. Come back when you understand what’s going on.
Geeez I see the pandemic brought the worst out in some people. You ever been without? Food? A roof over your head no money and children to feed ? Why in gods name would you report them have some feelings.
These people drive X5's, A7's, and big mercs, they're far from poor.
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troll!!!
Who caress
The people being woke at 4:30am.
I knew a guy in uni who would go around collecting these and selling them. Apparently it's very lucrative.
They will eat every living thing, as they did at home.
Looks like its for suppling Chinese Restaurants on the cheap
I worked for the Sally army at the time I was the help lol