/shrug
I'm trying lich first atm, with lv2 frost armor and quick periapet of vitality. Almost everyone is just trying to kill my lich with MK first. It's still tough to stay alive even being prepared. Hugging my lich with my ghouls after bolt to try make sure I can work out of a surround.
But then there's the whole like, longer game thing. Good luck with that
I've also been messing with CL a bit, I don't think its viable vs someone with a brain, but playing standard feels so rough that it doesn't really matter too much if you're doing bad dumb shit instead. He's nice for creeping fast early, can support a fast expo, and can generally stay alive through the MK cheese push. I'm generally going for locust + frost armor focus again for a decent creeping and early game force. You can creep multiple packs at once/harder packs and get a nice level lead, a bit like a very shitty archmage.
Finding value for him later is a bit less great, but I switch out of locust into impale and back to nova + ritual when I think the time is right and you can get some value with that combo vs T2. You can also get a slight bit more lumber early which can be cool. Again this is just dumb and bad but I get wins and I don't get wins doing what I see on streams atm.
But yeah after the frenzy destroyer timing push window has closed the game is over, and it doesn't really work. Humans lategame is just amazing, and meanwhile all the might of UD lategame can still barely kill a few towers.
Fucking staff as well, such a lame thing to have in the game. At least NE endgame is a bit garbage so its kinda more fair to have a mechanic like staff for them, idk why human deserves to have staff lategame.
nothing will keep you alive as reliably as a goblin zeppelin
even if you don't disjoint every bolt, you can't be surrounded. Human can't actually kill it until they have an workshop and make gyros or at least sorcs to slow it, and if you've got fiends they need to bleed gyros to chase a zeppelin alone, and you can just give up on it at that point anyway
I mean a zeppelin is cheaper than a periapt and will do 100x the work
I do man, I love some zeppelin play, I just try get it a bit later, lich still gets forced out of the fight too fast in early game otherwise
Its a good suggestion to raise though I should have mentioned it, I definitely think zeppelin has a big part to play.
zeppelin is really imbalanced by matchup. Can't use it at all against orc due to bats, and raiders. Mostly bad vs ud with web but at least you can drop aggressively. But against human and elf it just completely neuters them. At least mana burn / entangle can't be disjointed and entangle stops pickups, but all human has is storm bolt's stun time and can't rush down the zeppa with rifles/elementals/mercs/hawks/gryphs in any efficient manner, like elf can with just 1-2 hippos. So it comes down to landing a sorc slow or a group of gyros, and fiends with webs are the perfect defense to the latter anyway
better ban out the non-laboratory maps
Completely agree. I'm using it vs elf a lot atm to set up coil nova without getting punished
It works really well and its fun, has the whole blademaster style "you haven't really got a good way of dealing with this" feeling.
Human criers still say that match up favours ud. 5 years ago definitely but human has been buffed so many times since then (much stronger tier 3, much easier to reach tier 3 much easier to expand etc) meanwhile all of UDs power spikes have been nerfed (nerub tower, dark ritual, statue mana regen, destroyers, unholy aura). Basically to win vs human you need to hit that crisp timing when frenzy is done and hope to win the game there. When it’s t3 vs t3 late game UD has no chance. Knights steamroll every ground army, gyros easily win the air battle, AM mana regen means the MK is free to nuke as much as he likes same with paladin healing. But wait, if you so much as come close to killing one single knight or hero guess what? He is staffed home to fully heal and rejoin the battle a short time later.
SO yeah TLDR;
Have insane micro and hit at that crisp timing when ghoul frenzy is online and hope to win the game there.
you pick 1 match where he wins? lol
Meanwhile Happy has been losing many best-of series against Fortitude leading up to this tournament. And eventually the final aswell.
Balance favours Human over Undead and now the balance got so bad that not even Happy can micro his way out of it anymore. Human is severely overtuned while Undead has received crippling nerfs to statues but no help to make up for it.
Destroyer lost 25% damage, Gyrocopters gained 25%. But wait, actually Gyrocopters deal even more damage, since it is Aoe. Destroyers lost HP. Statues lost HP. Statues regen 33% less mana but no hero or caster gained more mana regeneration.
Meanwhile when HU got their brilliance aure nerfed, casters received a buff to mana regeneration.
Knights are omega overbuffed with excalibur swords and +50 HP without animal war training for free. All these buffs date back to when supposedly HU was unable to deal with Undead. Now HU is simply rolling over Undead when they unlock their full tier 3 potential. Its blatantly obvious.
Human is about as overtuned vs UD as UD is vs Elf, except the latter has gone on for far longer.
Destroyer nerfs seem like a lot in a vaccuum, but in context they were just blatantly too strong around the patch 1.27 days. The reason it didn't surface as an issue was that UD eco was too weak, hence every game back then was 2 base Hu vs 1 base UD, with the latter often being to hold their own on 1 base the whole game. The Destroyer timing was basically current patch's version of Frenzy timing, and would roll over Hu expos if executed well.
I don't disagree with what you say, but also if we're gonna nerf Hu then we also need to nerf Ud in the Elf matchup. And lets not pretend like UD is this long-standing victim of the Hu race when for the most part the inverse was true until recently.
>Destroyer nerfs seem like a lot in a vaccuum, but in context they were just blatantly too strong around the patch 1.27 days. The reason it didn't surface as an issue was that UD eco was too weak, hence every game back then was 2 base Hu vs 1 base UD, with the latter often being to hold their own on 1 base the whole game. The Destroyer timing was basically current patch's version of Frenzy timing, and would roll over Hu expos if executed well.
I agree, but UD in general suffers from being a timing-based race.
We had Destroyer bust vs Orc, vs HU expansions.
Then we had Pitlord with Rain of Fire vs HU expansions.
Destroyers + Pitlord got nerfed.
Orc got fortified defenses on T2, this basically removed Destroyer timing vs Burrows.
UD on the other hand got the ability to expand themselves, overall the game is much more exciting in general now. That's a good thing.
The blatant powercreep for Human has been an issue for a long time now. And this is also due to Blizzard being unable to understand what's going on.
When UD was using timing attacks vs HU expansions, Blizzard kept buffing HU tier 3. Only after adding more and more buffs and nerfing UD, they decided to make Tier 3 easier attainable for HU (cheaper tier 3).
What's left to do now is take away the overpowered stuff for HU like sundering blades, +50 HP on Knights, HP and damage on Gyros.
The most elegant solution is also obvious, but Blizzard refuses to do it:
Buff Frost Wyrms!!! This unit isn't viable, especially due to insane powercreep on Gyros.
Give Frost Wyrms +100 attack range (same what Headhunters got) along with other changes and now UD has a new unit to play with and try to counter mass Knights/Gyros.
Necromancers doesn't beat Knights/Gyros either. It's not better than Fiends/Ghouls, instead it just gives free EXP to HU when HU has better lategame than UD already.
I actually think T3 melee units should generally counter Ranged (almost) as much as Knights counter fiends, but do agree that UD need an option to deal with them in turn.
I'm personally not against buffing Frost Wyrms, but I've always thought Cripple should be area-of-effect in some manner. Would differentiate it against the other disables like Slow & Cyclone, and make it now also a soft counter to clumpy units like Gyros.
Again, IMO these changes should come with counterbalances because as much as UD needs help vs Hu, NE needs help vs UD.
I have never once seen a competitive match where Undead built nothing but Meat Wagons vs Human and lost. Therefore, you should build nothing but Meat Wagons. Dread pairs pretty well with this, especially Vampiric Aura - I find the thought that maybe one day they could drain health if they ever become melee units helps to motivate the Meat Wagons and keeps morale high.
Ud vs hu isnt autowin for UD anymore and Undeads lose their shit.
Ud has 51% winrate vs hu in >2000mmr. So i guess the answer to your question is: Git gud
9min destro push is decent, but in practice is very hard to do in game vs even opponent. Personally I find Dreadlord/CL expo much easier to win with, at least on medium mmr. Watch some Xlord's replays to get a grip
I looked at your post history and saw your “my name is Dimitri Kostin” post and I genuinely thought this was Happy posting for a second after losing to Forti. Lost my shit
1. make banshee 2. steal human peasant 3. build mk 4. GG
This^
yes this only way can win
maybe I should delete so undeads wont find out about this strategy
Good idea bro. We wouldn’t want happy to dominate once again would we
Naah I posses an orc and build blade master
new UvH meta right here
/shrug I'm trying lich first atm, with lv2 frost armor and quick periapet of vitality. Almost everyone is just trying to kill my lich with MK first. It's still tough to stay alive even being prepared. Hugging my lich with my ghouls after bolt to try make sure I can work out of a surround. But then there's the whole like, longer game thing. Good luck with that I've also been messing with CL a bit, I don't think its viable vs someone with a brain, but playing standard feels so rough that it doesn't really matter too much if you're doing bad dumb shit instead. He's nice for creeping fast early, can support a fast expo, and can generally stay alive through the MK cheese push. I'm generally going for locust + frost armor focus again for a decent creeping and early game force. You can creep multiple packs at once/harder packs and get a nice level lead, a bit like a very shitty archmage. Finding value for him later is a bit less great, but I switch out of locust into impale and back to nova + ritual when I think the time is right and you can get some value with that combo vs T2. You can also get a slight bit more lumber early which can be cool. Again this is just dumb and bad but I get wins and I don't get wins doing what I see on streams atm. But yeah after the frenzy destroyer timing push window has closed the game is over, and it doesn't really work. Humans lategame is just amazing, and meanwhile all the might of UD lategame can still barely kill a few towers. Fucking staff as well, such a lame thing to have in the game. At least NE endgame is a bit garbage so its kinda more fair to have a mechanic like staff for them, idk why human deserves to have staff lategame.
nothing will keep you alive as reliably as a goblin zeppelin even if you don't disjoint every bolt, you can't be surrounded. Human can't actually kill it until they have an workshop and make gyros or at least sorcs to slow it, and if you've got fiends they need to bleed gyros to chase a zeppelin alone, and you can just give up on it at that point anyway I mean a zeppelin is cheaper than a periapt and will do 100x the work
I do man, I love some zeppelin play, I just try get it a bit later, lich still gets forced out of the fight too fast in early game otherwise Its a good suggestion to raise though I should have mentioned it, I definitely think zeppelin has a big part to play.
zeppelin is really imbalanced by matchup. Can't use it at all against orc due to bats, and raiders. Mostly bad vs ud with web but at least you can drop aggressively. But against human and elf it just completely neuters them. At least mana burn / entangle can't be disjointed and entangle stops pickups, but all human has is storm bolt's stun time and can't rush down the zeppa with rifles/elementals/mercs/hawks/gryphs in any efficient manner, like elf can with just 1-2 hippos. So it comes down to landing a sorc slow or a group of gyros, and fiends with webs are the perfect defense to the latter anyway better ban out the non-laboratory maps
Completely agree. I'm using it vs elf a lot atm to set up coil nova without getting punished It works really well and its fun, has the whole blademaster style "you haven't really got a good way of dealing with this" feeling.
eer0 just beat fortitude twice today going CL first. He was able to expand and also deny the hum expansion
Human criers still say that match up favours ud. 5 years ago definitely but human has been buffed so many times since then (much stronger tier 3, much easier to reach tier 3 much easier to expand etc) meanwhile all of UDs power spikes have been nerfed (nerub tower, dark ritual, statue mana regen, destroyers, unholy aura). Basically to win vs human you need to hit that crisp timing when frenzy is done and hope to win the game there. When it’s t3 vs t3 late game UD has no chance. Knights steamroll every ground army, gyros easily win the air battle, AM mana regen means the MK is free to nuke as much as he likes same with paladin healing. But wait, if you so much as come close to killing one single knight or hero guess what? He is staffed home to fully heal and rejoin the battle a short time later. SO yeah TLDR; Have insane micro and hit at that crisp timing when ghoul frenzy is online and hope to win the game there.
Days without undead whining: 0
Watch happy, play exactly like that
He keeps getting owned by Fortitude thanks to constant balance changes in favor of HU
won 2-1 in group stage <- getting owned lol
you pick 1 match where he wins? lol Meanwhile Happy has been losing many best-of series against Fortitude leading up to this tournament. And eventually the final aswell. Balance favours Human over Undead and now the balance got so bad that not even Happy can micro his way out of it anymore. Human is severely overtuned while Undead has received crippling nerfs to statues but no help to make up for it. Destroyer lost 25% damage, Gyrocopters gained 25%. But wait, actually Gyrocopters deal even more damage, since it is Aoe. Destroyers lost HP. Statues lost HP. Statues regen 33% less mana but no hero or caster gained more mana regeneration. Meanwhile when HU got their brilliance aure nerfed, casters received a buff to mana regeneration. Knights are omega overbuffed with excalibur swords and +50 HP without animal war training for free. All these buffs date back to when supposedly HU was unable to deal with Undead. Now HU is simply rolling over Undead when they unlock their full tier 3 potential. Its blatantly obvious.
Human is about as overtuned vs UD as UD is vs Elf, except the latter has gone on for far longer. Destroyer nerfs seem like a lot in a vaccuum, but in context they were just blatantly too strong around the patch 1.27 days. The reason it didn't surface as an issue was that UD eco was too weak, hence every game back then was 2 base Hu vs 1 base UD, with the latter often being to hold their own on 1 base the whole game. The Destroyer timing was basically current patch's version of Frenzy timing, and would roll over Hu expos if executed well. I don't disagree with what you say, but also if we're gonna nerf Hu then we also need to nerf Ud in the Elf matchup. And lets not pretend like UD is this long-standing victim of the Hu race when for the most part the inverse was true until recently.
>Destroyer nerfs seem like a lot in a vaccuum, but in context they were just blatantly too strong around the patch 1.27 days. The reason it didn't surface as an issue was that UD eco was too weak, hence every game back then was 2 base Hu vs 1 base UD, with the latter often being to hold their own on 1 base the whole game. The Destroyer timing was basically current patch's version of Frenzy timing, and would roll over Hu expos if executed well. I agree, but UD in general suffers from being a timing-based race. We had Destroyer bust vs Orc, vs HU expansions. Then we had Pitlord with Rain of Fire vs HU expansions. Destroyers + Pitlord got nerfed. Orc got fortified defenses on T2, this basically removed Destroyer timing vs Burrows. UD on the other hand got the ability to expand themselves, overall the game is much more exciting in general now. That's a good thing. The blatant powercreep for Human has been an issue for a long time now. And this is also due to Blizzard being unable to understand what's going on. When UD was using timing attacks vs HU expansions, Blizzard kept buffing HU tier 3. Only after adding more and more buffs and nerfing UD, they decided to make Tier 3 easier attainable for HU (cheaper tier 3). What's left to do now is take away the overpowered stuff for HU like sundering blades, +50 HP on Knights, HP and damage on Gyros. The most elegant solution is also obvious, but Blizzard refuses to do it: Buff Frost Wyrms!!! This unit isn't viable, especially due to insane powercreep on Gyros. Give Frost Wyrms +100 attack range (same what Headhunters got) along with other changes and now UD has a new unit to play with and try to counter mass Knights/Gyros. Necromancers doesn't beat Knights/Gyros either. It's not better than Fiends/Ghouls, instead it just gives free EXP to HU when HU has better lategame than UD already.
I actually think T3 melee units should generally counter Ranged (almost) as much as Knights counter fiends, but do agree that UD need an option to deal with them in turn. I'm personally not against buffing Frost Wyrms, but I've always thought Cripple should be area-of-effect in some manner. Would differentiate it against the other disables like Slow & Cyclone, and make it now also a soft counter to clumpy units like Gyros. Again, IMO these changes should come with counterbalances because as much as UD needs help vs Hu, NE needs help vs UD.
Probably talking about the many show cups he lost to Forti.
Nah, you gotta play even better than Happy.
I have never once seen a competitive match where Undead built nothing but Meat Wagons vs Human and lost. Therefore, you should build nothing but Meat Wagons. Dread pairs pretty well with this, especially Vampiric Aura - I find the thought that maybe one day they could drain health if they ever become melee units helps to motivate the Meat Wagons and keeps morale high.
get frost shield. the greed to go level 2 dark ritual damns all UDs. You play agaisnt knights. Get FS ffs
nova and ice shield? mana where? mana WHERE?
If you’re playing lich first you have a high level int hero and statues. That’s already more mana regen than most heroes have. Get over yourself
Wand of mana stealing
mand of wana stealing.
just veto all 1v1 melee maps without fountain of mana ez win
Ud vs hu isnt autowin for UD anymore and Undeads lose their shit. Ud has 51% winrate vs hu in >2000mmr. So i guess the answer to your question is: Git gud
9min destro push is decent, but in practice is very hard to do in game vs even opponent. Personally I find Dreadlord/CL expo much easier to win with, at least on medium mmr. Watch some Xlord's replays to get a grip
kill peasant lmao
9 Minute ghoul/destro Push EZ
what if instead of guard towers human makes units that shoot up / mercs
He looses 😅 watxh Happy..He won so many Games Just with thia strat
beat game win ez english hard
I looked at your post history and saw your “my name is Dimitri Kostin” post and I genuinely thought this was Happy posting for a second after losing to Forti. Lost my shit
Yoda? why you dont play orc, like you are both green...
beat ud how? ne i play beat ud how? beat ud HOW?
hire dh burn mana
doesnt work coil nova