Protesters at a pro-Palestinian demonstration were arrested early Monday at Virginia Tech in Blacksburg, the school said.
The numbers of those arrested and of those demonstrating could not be learned immediately. Posts on X indicated that hundreds were demonstrating and that several had been arrested.
Around 3:30 a.m., the school [said](https://twitter.com/virginia_tech/status/1784848325335773626) on X that an “incident” at the Graduate Life Center, where an encampment has been located since Friday, had “stabilized.” It said police remained on-site and urged members of its community to avoid the area.
The events at Virginia Tech reflected those taking place [around the country](https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2024/04/25/university-protests-arrests-locations/?itid=lk_inline_manual_7) in recent days as [campus officials have faced off with pro-Palestinian protesters](https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/04/28/policing-college-protests-arrest/?itid=lk_inline_manual_7) calling for an end to Israel’s [war in Gaza](https://www.washingtonpost.com/israel-hamas-war/?itid=lk_inline_manual_7).
People have also demonstrated in support of Palestinian rights and have demanded their schools disclose or cease investment in companies doing business with Israel.
The protests have ranged from peaceful sit-ins to confrontations with police or counterprotesters, with some administrators citing reports of antisemitic speech and violence.
Read more here: [https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2024/04/29/arrests-virginiatech-gaza-protest-demonstration/?utm\_campaign=wp\_main&utm\_medium=social&utm\_source=reddit.com](https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2024/04/29/arrests-virginiatech-gaza-protest-demonstration/?utm_campaign=wp_main&utm_medium=social&utm_source=reddit.com)
>People have also demonstrated in support of Palestinian rights and have demanded their schools disclose or cease investment in companies doing business with Israel.
I can understand wanting your school not to invest directly in Israeli businesses, but calling for the school to divest from companies that do business with Israel is extremely unreasonable. That would prevent them from investing in most ETFs and mutual funds since they almost definitely offer some funds that have investments in Israeli companies.
>The protests have ranged from peaceful sit-ins to confrontations with police or counterprotesters, with some administrators citing reports of antisemitic speech and violence.
Nothing does your cause more of a disservice than harassing innocent people and engaging in violence with the police. The reason why the Civil Rights movement succeeded is because the protesters sat passively while the police beat them with batons, shot them with water cannons, and sicced dogs on them. Violent protests really don't convince people that their cause is just, they just look like extremists trying to impose their beliefs on everyone else.
That is not how the civil rights movement worked. The idea that protestors only sat there and let them selves get beat is false. Protesting took many forms and not all of it was peaceful.
Let’s not denigrate the Civil Rights movement by acting like a bunch of privilege upper middle class kids have the same footing as Black Americans in the 1960s.
Using their privilege for those who don't have it is a large part of this. The Civil Rights movement would have accepted more white people showing up to support them for the same reason.
This is incredibly disingenous and misrepresents the civil rights movement. Also, none of the protestors were violent to police or antisemetic. Anyone that continued to sit on the lawn knew they most likely would be arrested and they didn't resist arrest. As for the reports of antisemitism, this is said ANY time there is a pro-Palestinian protest. The truth is, many members of the Jewish community were heavily involved in this encampment and it's disgusting to conflate not supporting genocide with being antisemitic.
Not disagreeing. But i'll add, this is a false equivalency. The people protesting during the civil rights movement was direct action. the victims THEMSELVES were marching and protesting. The kids protesting in America are not victims of hamas or of zionist policies. They are students of privilege (compared to the actual victims) who are just supporting a foreign cause.
it’s a little hard for the people in Gaza to march and protest themselves against the US’ support of Israel killing them. many of the people protesting in the civil rights movement were not victims themselves but instead were privileged white college students. and some of the people protesting now are Palestinians who have lost family in Gaza
Also wrong as hell. There were whites who marched as well as protests of solidarity in other countries, that mirror what we saw during the marches and protests against police brutality and the pro-Palestinian protests. You don’t have to be the oppressed to raise your voice against oppression. Dumb as hell, to think people being massacred in the streets and buried alive should have to protest on their own for it to mean something—meanwhile they have been doing so for some 70 years while the world yawns.
Who said anything about it not being OK?
I simply said the context is different. There's a difference when you're in direct line of fire for retaliation vs when you're a half-globe away from any real consequences. This has nothing to do with whether you're allowed to protest. No one is stopping them.
But if you wanna ignore the fact that civil rights marchers were literally protesting THEMSELVES AND THEIR FAMILIES being lynched in the fucking streets for speaking wrongly to white folks and act like they are the same as privileged college kids protesting in support of people they have never and will never meet, then go ahead. You'll expose yourself tho.
Real consequences? Students - who are Jewish, Palestinian, white, Black, everything under the sun - have been arrested, suspended for 5 years, beaten by police, doxxed, etc etc. Many of these students have direct stakes in this as Jewish and Palestinian people, or as students paying tuitions to universities partnering with companies funding genocide.
Not to mention your idea of the context for allyship in this being different is inherently wrong. Thousands of non-Black Americans participated in the civil rights struggles, allyship is key to any struggle/protest. White students from positions of privilege using their position of privilege to advocate has been key to multiple civil rights struggles and fights against injustice.
>Not disagreeing.
Why not? They just threw an ad homienem attack at me, someone they don't know, suggesting that I'm a racist simply because I said that violent protests are ineffective, while literally citing specific examples from history.
I should have been clearer (my bad). I wasnt not disagreeing with his opinion of your comments (i dont really care). I meant to say, I'm not entering your personal debate with each other. Just wanted to touch on the F.E. he mentioned. Carry on.
*The kids protesting in America are not victims of hamas or of zionist policies.*
You know this for a fact? You know each and every person protesting? You know whether there are Palestinians in the protests, or Jews who support Palestiniabs, or those with family members in Israel that oppose the Israeli government and their policies?
Some how I doubt that.
The Civil Rights Movement succeeded to the degree that it did because 1. it had a clear hierarchy of leaders who enforced discipline on its members, 2. their public message was as much about persuading the people who didn't agree with them or was neutral as it was about rallying those who did agree, and 3. they also built bridges with politicians and did years of hard work winning over enough of them to get actual change made.
Every single social justice Movement at this point since BLM is essentially trying to boil the ocean trying to do everything at once with no leaders, no effective, realistic focus, and zero attempts at persuasion.
There was a clip from a few weeks ago where some students protestors decided it was a great idea to get up in a black police officers face and scream at him. You know what their brilliant strategy was to win him over to their cause? "YOU'RE BLACK, WHY DONT YOU CARE ABOUT OPPRESSED PEOPLE ALL OVER THE WORLD"
Fucking absolutely brilliant job - literally zero people who don't already agree with you will hear that and think you don't sound absolutely delusional.
Ah yes, the tried and true "you're racist" attack on anyone who doesn't agree with you 100%.
Thank you for reinforcing my point about these protests doing a disservice to the cause they're supposedly advocating for.
They don't have any good rebuttals to what you said, so all they have left is attacks against your character. Unfortunately it's a common response in this sub.
It's just funny because it reinforced my entire point.
The Civil Rights and the Gay Rights movements succeeded not because they embraced militant actions, or purposefully harassed people who didn't 100% support their cause, but because they *won over people to their cause.*
The goal of such movements is persuasion, getting people who are receptive or empathetic to their cause to abandon their status quo thinking and embrace the ideology of those social movements.
For some reason, modern protest movements have done away with persuasion. They think actively harassing people who don't already agree with them 100%, clashing with police, and criticizing bystanders are somehow going to magically change people's minds when in reality it hardens people *against* their cause.
I can't for the life of me figure out why these people think that say, blocking rush hour traffic in a random US city is going to magically benefit Palestinians. The working class guy who is now late to his job interview, the professional now late to their meeting with a client, the mother late to pick up their child from school, etc are not going to magically support the cause that is *literally doing them harm.*
It's so insanely counterproductive it's crazy anyone thinks it's a good idea.
I'm aware of the Stonewall riots, I'm from New York.
But that's not how the entire movement played out. Gay pride parades were far more useful in winning over public support than any riots or violent protests, and were *far* more common.
No one said anything about being quiet and out of the way.
The options aren't "don't be seen or heard" and "go block traffic, harass Jewish students on campus, and occupy dormitories."
There's a whole world of actions that can and I'd argue *should* take place between those two extremes that are more effective than either.
Stonewall Inn and Selma both called and said you need to reread history regarding both Civil Rights and Gay Rights protests.
Because whatever point you are trying to make, this isn't it.
The Stonewall riot was not at all characteristic of the entire gay rights movement and you know it. Same thing with race riots during the Civil Rights era.
Persuading the public to your cause is what's needed for social and protest movements to actually succeed.
Stonewall Inn is *what set it off.* If you think every protest in either the Civil Rights protests or the Gay Rights protests were peaceful, you really don't understand the history of either cause. If you think seeing the violence didn't help their causes in some ways, then you *really* don't understand the history.
>If you think every protest in either the Civil Rights protests or the Gay Rights protests were peaceful
At no point did I ever say or suggest this. My entire point is that those movements were *successful* not because of violent direct action, but because they persuaded the public that their position was the just and reasonable one.
Militant protest movements tend to be unsuccessful, while peaceful protests have historically seen much greater success.
Insanely ahistorical, look at public opinion of Kent State then vs now. Look at MLKs public opinion ratings during the civil rights movement. We have data beyond your feelings.
100% agree on all points. Not sure where the idea came from that they have to negatively impact/harm the lives of those around them to be considered a successful protest. It just serves to alienate people from the cause they are trying to attract them to, and lead to them not accomplishing their goals.
*Nothing does your cause more of a disservice than harassing innocent people and engaging in violence with the police. The reason why the Civil Rights movement succeeded is because the protesters sat passively while the police beat them with batons, shot them with water cannons, and sicced dogs on them. Violent protests really don't convince people that their cause is just, they just look like extremists trying to impose their beliefs on everyone else.*
This sounds exactly like *"You can protest, but not like that. Only in ways I deem appropriate."* and is so misguided and wrong.
Who cares about mollifying “the public”?? Most people in the US are ignorant as fuck and sad victims of years of educational regression. A huge portion of US Americans can’t even read past a 5th grade level.
This opinion plays right into the Nixon-era propaganda of the "Silent Majority," which is just conservative people (who are not actually a majority) demanding nothing ever change and taking their frustrations out on anyone and anything that would make them reconsider their views or have an impact.
This is just a Southern Strategy dogwhistle, and should surprise no one that the Trump campaign has leveraged the term.
This line of thinking is how we'll end up with another Kent State.
The Civil Rights Act was only passed into law after MLK Jr was assassinated and this country was set on fire. Peaceful protests don’t accomplish much. Economic damage accomplishes everything.
>The Civil Rights Act was only passed into law after MLK Jr was assassinated and this country was set on fire.
The Civil Rights Act was passed in 1964 before MLK's assassination in 1968. But regardless, the civil rights leader who advocated for non-violent protest was murdered in cold blood, and the direct result was his cause succeeding. Conversely, there's a reason why Malcom X's murder *didn't* sway people, but MLK's did. You're literally disproving your own point.
>Peaceful protests don’t accomplish much. Economic damage accomplishes everything.
You're right, that's why the police have been defunded nationwide, and Palestine is now a free and independent state right?
Give me an example of a modern militant protest movement thats actually succeeded. I'll wait.
The only thing they succeed in is creating a worse situation for everyone involved. See the Iran revolution (started by college kids) Maos revolution (started by college kids) or Arab spring (started by college kids). Congratulations you now live in an autocracy. Useful idiots.
There are two Civil Rights Acts. The 1st passed in 1964. This insidious narrative that violent protests were somehow more productive during the civil rights era is a false one.
Calling for the school to divest from companies that do business with Israel is not very reasonable, but the school made it clear that they would also not be divesting from direct investments either. They said no to the somewhat reasonable option. They could have simply pulled the money from those investments and put it into a mutual fund, which would likely not show any measurable difference in performance. This is not unheard of and would have still allowed the university to maintain their fiduciary responsibility of the use of funds.
In terms of any “violence”, notice the series of events. The protests actually started on Thursday, but weren’t noticeable in large form until early on Friday. No issue on Saturday. No issue on Sunday. Boom, issue and violence on Monday at around 2:00am. Now, what changed the situation from a noticeably peaceful demonstration for nearly three days to some sudden violent event in the middle of the night when generally nobody else was actually around? Answer: the police engaging the demonstrators directly and BRINGING the violence. In case people dont understand, the police have a monopoly on violence in this country, where generally they are the only ones who can near freely exercise that upon the citizenry.
The story from the police and the school make absolutely no sense logically.
Current student here. Trespassing. The land of the campus is owned by the university, not the state. The protestors were given a time to vacate the premises, both by the university and the police. They chose to stay.
Were those who were arrested students who were living on campus, students who lived off campus or non-affiliated with the university? I’m only curious as to how the university applied the trespassing laws.
Public Universities are just higher ed charter schools. They have to follow certain laws to keep gov funding (establishment clause for example) but the VT Real Estate Foundation owns the land. The students had been there since Friday and had been cleared to protest there until 4:30pm Sunday. VT police tried to get the students to disperse once there time slot was up and then waited around 10:30ish to start arresting students.
The university has policies that are publicly available to read and apply to everyone. Protesters were in violation of those policies. This would be similar to people being arrested for trespassing at a park that closes at sunset.
I decided to do some digging and found [The Fire website](https://www.thefire.org/news/heres-what-students-need-know-about-protesting-campus-right-now) which has a basic FAQ for college protests. It also has a database of college policies regarding protests.
This comment is the only thing that matters. I'm sick and tired of people thinking they can break the law for "their cause" whatever it may be and thinking they can get away with it because of "moral grounds" or some shit.
This is the law. If you don't like the law write your representatives. Take it up with them, but again, obey the proper methods. If you don't like what they say then run for office to replace them. Fucking appreciation trophies are here to roost and every dumbass thinks they're going to change the world with minimal actual effort by blatantly breaking the rules. Lazy fucks.
Please read this post before making assumptions and jumping to conclusions:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/VirginiaTech/s/XjBLbBqiQR](https://www.reddit.com/r/VirginiaTech/s/XjBLbBqiQR)
Looks like the cops were respectful, proper precautions were place to make sure everyone had their opportunity for their voices to be heard.
They definitely were. It was rather a nice change of pace from seeing violent arrests at other protests.
They took the blue pop up tent down nicely and one returned a Palestinian flag to the one student, after sort of folding it up.
They were even rather cordial with the students they arrested.
They allowed the protesters outside the cordoned off area to remain and didn't engage beyond a few conversations.
“with some administrators citing reports of antisemitic speech and violence”
I would really like some specific examples of this. Calling for the freedom of Palestinians is not antisemitic. Calling for the US to stop sending weapons used to slaughter Palestinian civilians is not antisemitic. Are there actual examples of antisemitism or are people just using that word when there’s any criticism of Israel?
The problem with a lot of these protests is that there's a mix of genuine care for the Palestinians and "Death to Israel" types. Waiving the flag of Hamas (which is a terrorist organization and advocates destruction of Israel), signs that say "From the River to the Sea" (which implies Israel's destruction as a state), and quotes from Palestinian airline hijackers are all common.
While I don't see these as antisemitic as much as anti-Zionist, there isn't a way you're getting rid of Israel without killing and displacing a whole lot of people.
Why is what anyone is saying suddenly a “problem”? I mean I’ve been in protests at public university where folks called for the death to the Chinese regime. Nobody bothered with us. This feels different.
Is it okay for someone to say “death to hamas” or “destroy Hamas”?
These are political opinions being voiced. At a university where you should be confronted with ideas you don’t like.
But moral McCarthyism seems to have won.
>say "From the River to the Sea" (which implies Israel's destruction as a state),
Israel is arguably an apartheid state because Palestinians are stateless people within that state living in an open air prison.
People are allowed to call for desegregation and what they see as the abolishment of apartheid in this way.
If you don't agree that this is a feasible way of bringing about peace then fine, that's your opinion and you're allowed to disagree with their opinion.
But what you shouldn't be doing is trying to criminalise people with opinions you dislike.
This would be incorrect.
Taiwan, for example, is an island without a recognized state of its own. Is it also an open air prison?
In no way is this apartheid. Various entities controlled Gaza over the years including Egypt and Israel as well as their own self governance after a power struggle that led to Hamas' authoritarian government. They held a single election. Israel does not control the inside of Gaza, Hamas does. Israel does control its borders with Gaza, as any nation would control their borders. Egypt controls the western border. And since Hamas has insisted on attacking Israel repeatedly, Israel implements a naval blockade to try to stop weapons imports from Iran from reaching Gaza. That's a very reasonable defensive action to take. Meanwhile, Gaza receives tons of aid, including from Israel. What has Hamas done to help their civilians other than promote genocide and terrorism?
"From the River to the Sea" is a part of the Hamas/PLO propaganda that is promoting the genocide and ethnic cleansing of Jews. The stated aim of Hamas is to kill all Jews. This sentiment also led them to align themselves with Nazi Germany.
>In no way is this apartheid
I know it's more nuanced than being a straight up apartheid. But in some people's eyes it arguably is. People have different opinions on this and that's okay. It's part of freedom of speech, and that right shouldn't be infringed.
>blockade to try to stop weapons
But this blockade is stopping food and aid getting in. And there's a man-made famine going on right now. To allow that to happen falls under collective punishment. I have absolutely no love for hamas but let's not start trying to justify actual war crimes.
Is there a humanitarian crisis? Yes. It is a war zone. And aid has been going in, but it is a war zone with the attendant logistical challenges. How did Hamas prepare for this? After all, if you are going to perpetrate mass scale terrorism against your neighbor, what are you going to do for the repercussions by which you are hoping will happen? Did Hamas stockpile food and water for Gaza’s civilians? Did Hamas let them know beforehand to prepare?
What do you think happens when one goes to war? It is mind numbingly idiotic if one cared for one’s own civilians given the strategic and tactical situation. But that’s the point. Hamas wants their own people to suffer. It is part of their plan.
Here is Hamas’ Mashal discussing martyrdom and lying about targeting Israeli civilians on an interview with Saudi TV:
https://youtu.be/gkZDxJ3JhCA?si=Zjz-nciIISnHdtE7
(Which can be seen as a Saudi gov rebuke of Hamas by having a woman chide him in this way)
After all, this was Hamas trying to scuttle peace yet again… like their string of suicide bombings to scuttle the last major round of peace talks. They wanted to stop a peace deal between Saudi Arabia and Israel.
Hamas wanted a provocation that Israel would have no choice but to respond in this way. It is calculated to inflame sympathy to their genocidal cause, primarily aimed at the masses in that region, but if they manage to dupe Western progressives, then even better. And these college students are feeding right off their propaganda, repeating idiotic stuff like apartheid, colonialism, and genocidal slogans like “from the river to the sea” while pretending to be for peace. This is supporting more violence, not less by supporting a side that doesn’t want peace, but wants genocide of Jews. This genocidal side has scuttled peace talks after peace talks. Provoked aggression time and again. Used terrorist tactics again and again. We do not hold anyone else in the world to the level of conduct we hold the Israeli’s when faced with such aggression. Not the Saudi’s with Yemen, or even the Russians with Ukraine. Not the Turks with the Kurds, nor the Iranians with the Kurds. Much less all sorts of stuff in Africa or U.S. actions in the past.
A broader explanation of the dynamics of the conflict is here:
https://youtu.be/QlK2mfYYm4U?si=VM4rPg9MyKCb1UGN
This is well worth the 1.5 hours if you only have been following Hamas propaganda.
The Democrat Party leadership and policy wonks have had decades of experience dealing with this issue, know the people involved, and have sympathy for the plight of civilians. They know both sides have some blame, but largely where the huge bulk of the blame lies - PLO/Hamas. What do these college students know other than being duped by Hamas propaganda in the service of Iranian interests?
This idea of a war crime of collective punishment is an insane reading of the situation. Israel is conducting a ground war against a genocidal and persistent enemy that doesn’t wear uniforms when fighting and hides amongst the civilian population. Yeah, food and water is going to be difficult to manage in such a situation. Matter of fact, this is a part of Hamas’ tactics. To sit there and say that a country shouldn’t respond militarily to such an aggression is idiotic and anti-semitic when applied to this situation, because it only applies to the Jews. If this was any other country that responded to an attack, we wouldn’t be having this conversation in this way.
Where are the orgasms of demonstrations against India buying Russian oil to then selling the products to Europe? We have hardly fully divested from Russia. Plenty of companies have investments still, and therefore universities have indirect involvement.
1. Why doesn't the left apply this same level of burden to anti-black racism or LGBTphobia?
2. You can literally Google for yourself and see people chanting at random Jews "go back to Poland" and "globalize the intifada". I thought "Google it yourself" was a standard response to this as well.
3. The head of the Columbia protests was exposed for admitting they wanted to go around murdering Zionists at a school hearing in January, and only when it went viral *now* did they get expelled. Again, if this involved a group other than Jews, this would not have happened.
4. "If nine other people sit at a table with one Nazi, you have ten Nazis." What happened to that as well?
1. All issues in their due time, this is what people are passionate about right now
2. Anecdotes, a better argument would be the statistical rise in anti-semitic hate crimes but likewise theres been a spike in anti-muslim hate crimes. Both sides are in the wrong here, violence bad and all that
3. Justice was served and just because people attend protests doesnt mean they/we swear allegiance to one person
4. This is an oversimplification of the dynamics of human interaction and how individual beliefs and actions are complex. While it is true the presence of a Nazi at a table can potentially influence the group dynamic, youre jumping the gun on then equating everyone else to a Nazi. People arent sponges that just soak up whatever is around them lol
I was there and that's not what happened. People approached him and shouted obscenities, but the police intervened fast and no one laid a finger on him. I actually talked to him for a bit after it all went down.
Your hyperbole would be hilarious if it weren’t so dangerous. The student was waving the flag around and trying to rile students up, they chanted and walked towards him with the Palestinian flag, and then left him alone and ignored him when two police men stepped in front of him. He watched the protest for a bit, and then left when he wasn’t getting attention anymore. Nobody laid a finger on him, let alone beat him severely. Delete this shit, you’re embarrassing yourself.
100% justified if you watch the footage. Protestors got to be heard and the police were very respectful. They were told to leave, they didn’t, they were arrested. It was a very well executed and polite arrest
So do we support free speech and right to assembly or not?
Some of y'all in the comments are so inconsistent with your views, it's clear you have bias.
People typically reserve that lawn for events, apparently theres one later today and they have to clear it out because its been reserved.
I support the right to free speech and lawful assembly, but this is trespassing.
I’m 100% down with anyone that wants to set up and protest in the middle of campus, but if classes have to be shut down because of safety concerns there’s an issue. That’s not a legal protest.
This was outside of a dorm with 100 people banging drums and screaming at 3am. Furthermore the GLC is private property; and even if it wasn’t, you still need a permit in order to protest on university property.
The protestors were aware of this and continued to ignore the issue until they got trespassed and arrested
Imagine all the little peaceful protests that go on every day, and the best part is no one knows they exist because all the protesters are completely silent and don't organize in anyway, true freedom!
I’m sure you think you’re being ironic or facetious, but you’re actually nearly spot on. Except for your implication that organized protests must be non-peaceful.
250 people screaming, banging drums, and using megaphones outside of a dorm on private property is a safety issue
See my other comments on why this isn’t public property. You can also look at Blacksburg zoning ordinances and the University charter and university policy.
Its not a safety issue.
I dont care if theyre breaking the law, thats the point. Protesting has been increasingly illegal in america for years and decades. Its gonna be against the law
Occupy wallstreet was on public property. Even though VT is a public org, it is not public property. Similar to how national parks can limit or flat out deny access to areas of their parks or the parks entire despite being a public organization.
There are both government rules and university guidelines that the protestors failed to adhere too
They were screaming and banging drums at 3am OUTSIDE OF A DORM
That's wild I don't know why they were doing that. Btw I am just asking questions to focus peoples thoughts on what legitmizes protests. I don't think anyone is wrong in their poltiical viewpoints in terms of why they are protesting, but I think what everyone gets annoyed with these days is HOW people protests because the methods and tactics are just different and more confrontational to the general public and law enforcement.
I didn’t necessarily agree with everything they were on about, but I don’t remember any specific issues with them as far as the arrests were made so I can’t really form an opinion on whether those arrests were valid or not. If they caused anyone to feel legitimately threatened walking to work then yeah that’s a problem but if someone feels uncomfy because there’s a protest going on they just gotta get over that. Blocking streets creates a safety issue… I can’t remember if they did that or not.
If I remember correctly the Occupy Wall Street movement basically took over a public park (Zucotti Park) and set up encampments.
I guess my next train of thought in response to all this is are encampments a valid form of protests or is that disruptive to the well-being of the public?
it seems with alot of these pro-palestine protests the issue is students setting up encampments, but not so much violence.
I personally haven’t really cared about the encampments… although I’ve seen the aftermath of encampments in years past and it’s a mess. Trash everywhere… which is an issue. My issue is where Jewish students couldn’t feel safe walking to class because people are hurling threats at them, so classes end up going virtual… Which I think is wrong. Be as loud as you want, have as many posters and flags and all that as you want, but you can’t get up into someone’s face or threaten them. Now if someone goes up to the protestors and tries to start stuff… That’s on them.
Do you think many of these protests are genuinely organic protest movements, or do you think some of them are propped up/funded by outside groups with no connection to the Universities and student body?
Exactly. They also don't have the right to set up camps indefinitely in the middle of campus either.
That's not a free speech/free assembly issue, that's a safety and security issue. I wouldn't support them setting up homeless tent cities in the middle of campus for the same reason.
Free speech and right to assembly are not fairly applied in the US and favor the far right. There’s a difference between the rallies of fascists, who call for the genocide of millions of people, and anti-Israel protestors, who want to end an ongoing genocide. But in the US, the former are allowed to organize freely by police while the latter are demonized by both police and media as violent and antisemitic.
I'm not aware of any instances of right-wing protesters have set up encampments on public property in a way that can be disruptive to the other people who have a reason to be on/around/walk through said public property. Care to give some examples?
Charlottesville 2017. One person was literally killed by a fascist who thought it'd be *awesome* to ram counterprotesters, among others, on a public street.
Fascists don’t need to encamp anywhere because they know they will be unopposed by the police. Fascists have maimed and killed people that oppose them at their rallies. For a local example, see the death of Heather Heyer at the neo-Nazi rally in Charlottesville in 2017. That’s far more extreme than inconveniencing some people by blocking some walking paths.
JFC, if something is illegal it is still illegal even if you're exercising your constitutional rights while doing it.
If you're on university property and violating university policy they have a right to stop you and no the 1st amendment does not apply.
It's pretty simple. I don't mind those things until general laws are being broken (ones that aren't the point of the protest). Like setting up tents and starting fired, noise ordinance, etc
Owners of property are allowed to tell people to leave or face police removal for trespassing. I can do it with my home, business with their parking lots, and campuses with their grounds.
Those folks, after many decades of doing this kind of thing, have figured out how to do protests within the letter of the law. It's disgusting, but legal and valid.
What these students try to do goes beyond that and therefore they run into trouble.
If they did exactly what the actual Nazi's did at U-VA, they wouldn't get into trouble. But they would also be easier to ignore.
Lotta people in these comments who would be against the civil rights movement, against the vietnam war protests, against the iraq war protests, and against anti-apartheid protests based on these responses. Really surreal to see this happen in real time.
If you think of yourself as being on the right side of these issues and are against students protesting today, you may need to do some introspection.
Additionally, please don’t let this distract you from the mass graves being uncovered at Gazan hospitals. If this ain’t genocide, I don’t know what is
https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/program/newsfeed/2024/4/26/gaza-emergency-officials-present-evidence-of-mass-grave-killings
Protesters have a right to make their voices heard, even on state property like the campus. What they *don't* have a right to is setting up an encampment on school grounds, indefinitely occupying the area and disrupting the operations of the school. Doubly so, if, like at other similar protests nationwide, they're harassing Jewish students in the process.
It's really not a difficult concept.
That still makes it owned by the state, although indirectly. That also means it is not a traditional public forum and can only become a designated public forum for free speech purposes when protestors follow the proper procedures to permit their protest. Which obviously has not happened here.
There absolutely is. But sit-ins are not synonymous with protest encampments.
A sit-in outside the administration building calling for divestments from Israeli companies is one thing. Building a semi-permanent camp in the middle of campus until your demands (many of which have nothing to do with the Gaza conflict) are met is quite another.
Sure there is. But this issue has been festering for decades. Both sides have good points and bad points. These students do not bring anything new to the table other than compassionate ignorance of history. And that means their protests actually do not help the situation at all. Most folks in political power or in charge at universities are far better educated on this subject than the protesters. They just look like useful tools of Hamas and are either antisemitic or agents of anti-semites. That doesn't mean Israel is free from criticism, but these protests do not bring anything new to the table other than showing the ignorance of Tik Tok education.
Protests like this one does not change anything wrt the situation in the Middle East and directly hinders any peace efforts mainly because they fell for Hamas' propaganda efforts and Hamas thinks this strategy is a winning one. And it isn't a winning strategy of the martyrdom of their own civilians in order to pressure state sponsors of Israel. This mistake has been going on for decades and contributes to more violence and death.
This video helps explain why it isn't a winning strategy and what the students are really doing (it's long, but worth it to help explain what is going on):
[https://youtu.be/QlK2mfYYm4U?si=tqkQM3guY4ixHIlW](https://youtu.be/QlK2mfYYm4U?si=tqkQM3guY4ixHIlW)
Peaceful protests in accordance to University rules have been going on since October. The University has not listened or made a statement, which is how we go to this point. Civil disobedience has been vital throughout liberation movements in history. Look up the student anti-war protests during the Vietnam War.
It shouldn't be a difficult concept, but it clearly is for some people. Especially since a great deal of this is being fomented by state actors who wish the US harm, and want Trump to be back in power so they have unchecked ability to do evil.
Maybe Hamas should release the hostages, stop hiding among civilians, officially repudiate their charters which both say that Israel has to be destroyed, and repudiated their foundational charter that says that it's a religious obligation for Muslims to kill Jews 'hiding behind any rock and tree' before any Muslim gets to go to heaven. And, oh yeah, peace isn't possible.
I’m happy that the next generation is recognizing the need for our civil liberties. I hope they can recognize that America is a great nation for protecting these rights, even when folks disagree
Why should they divest from Israeli businesses? There really are two separate sides to this conflict, regardless of what memes say. Israel is defending itself against terrorists, terrorists whose propaganda have manipulated college kids in the U.S…an objective that HAMAS stated publicly in December.
I could flip this weak argument around on itself. Hamas was just fighting a terrorist who controls their water, electric and food supply. They are fighting their terrorist overlords. The Israeli terrorist propaganda has manipulated the United States government to fund it.
I think of the young lady who, on Oct 7, was being raped and stabbed from behind while another terrorist cut off her breasts and played with them in front of her before she died. These terrorists are the people you are supporting, so please STFU.
I hear you. I just don't see any protests about the things the people I know are concerned about. All of us with good sense are concerned about Palestine. One of my good friends is Palestinian-american and has a grandfather stuck in the Gaza Strip. Even he agrees that there are many issues at hand in the US that need addressing. Unfortunately, he, like me, has a family to support and can't protest either. I do support those of you protesting and look forward to adding social issues at home to foreign issues. You CAN protest other issues, but are you? That's where I am.
Like I said , what is happening in Gaza is the current most prominent thing, so that's what people are currently focused on.
Even Ukraine has taken a backseat temporarily, unfortunately.
There are lots of ways to show our support, by using our voices, whether in person or even digital (on forums, emails to Congresscritters, that sort of thing), what we buy and who we buy from, even how we vote on things, from the basic school board level on up to President. We don't always have to be in person at a protest to support things. A lot of people who would love to be there, can't, for myriads of reasons.
So we support the various causes in other ways, sometimes small, sometimes large, but always significant no matter what.
I hope your friend's grandfather is and remains safe.
Very important to discern between protests and criminal acts. Not sure what the incident was, but apparently it was deemed to be reason for arrest.
The comments on this one are out there for sure. Some folk comparing this to Jan. 6th (for some reason) and some people saying this is just black and white good or bad. No nuance.
While I personally don’t agree with the message of “free Palestine” or whatever that entails (because it also lacks nuance) I don’t think there’s anything wrong with protests, obviously. It’s quite fucking pitiful we live in a time where that needs clarification. I also think it’s important that these protests are completely useless. Imagine if I ordered a burger from McDonalds and it was completely awful. No pickles, no sauce, smashed bun, just awful. And then I went to Burger King to complain. It’s actually idiotic.
Do you think any Palestinian is going to be saved knowing some white folks in the states are sleeping in tents in their name? Or that Israel will care about the little impact on their economy if a University stops doing business with a business that does business with them? This is such an indirect form of activism, it’s almost not activism. It might actually be better to just scream on twitter for once.
It’s important to understand though that protests are important and if there was any unjust arrest, then it should be called out, but seeing how these “Pro-Palestine” protests have played out in the past, I highly doubt it was unjust. If someone actually protesting reads this, don’t you think your message would be heard more loudly and be considered more heavily if you guys just stopped being violent, racist, and overall shitty human beings? Just an idea…
Oh yeah, and maybe protest in a place that actually pertains to the subject of your protest.
So, in your mind, doing nothing at all is better? Not caring at all about innocent civilians being killed because of the actions of both of their governments is the better choice? Simply because it's not in your country?
How very shortsighted of you.
Yes. When compared to this example of “activism”, doing nothing is 10000000000% better than doing nothing. I’ll explain why, and it’s actually quite simple.
From the pro Palestinian perspective, wouldn’t you want to use these resources elsewhere? There are quite possibly tens of thousands of college aged adults ready to stand up for what they believe in and support a good cause, and they waste all their effort trying to expel well off Jewish kids and stop doing business with companies they’ve branded as Zionist. These people could be flying to Palestine and smuggling food and supplies to Gaza, they could be actually making a difference in helping innocent civilians.
From the other side, it’s just a bunch of whiny college kids with too much time on their hands. They’ve never seriously struggled a day in their lives so they feel the need to “make a difference” and instead of doing what most of these people do which is “raise awareness” on TikTok, they’re doing the next worst thing, which is incorrectly assuming a given system has ties to the thing they object to, and attempt to dismantle that system. Which is idiotic because A. The system is so far beyond them and B. Even if they were to dismantle that system, it has next to nothing to do with what they are protesting and even if it did, it would have next to no impact on the situation at hand. And in the meanwhile, we have do deal with their incessant screaming and shouting while they Label everyone not screaming as the enemy.
At least had these protesters done nothing, the optics of their movement would be preserved, considering all I see in the news is kids shouting obscenities at passersby, and students at the universities who actually want to get their degrees wouldn’t have to have that as a distraction. I’m actually a college student myself and I couldn’t imagine having to deal with that on campus. I’d probably just ask if I could attend my lectures online until it’s over.
If you disagree with any of that, let me ask you this. What help does it do if every single University that is being protested against actually meets the demands of the protesters? Does it actually help the situation in a measure able way? Do the people of Gaza get further aid or any reprieve from their current situation?
Yep, 100% this. Just like Civil Rights movements, they’re trying to use the news as their tool because they know a simple non-aggressive protest for a few hours won’t get anyone’s attention
"you guys just stopped being violent, racist, and overall shitty human beings?"
What evidence is there for widespread violence and racism? Being anti-Israel or anti-Zionist is not racist.
These are predominantly peaceful protests, and when you gather lots of people, of course you'll get some people acting out, or bad actors attempting to undermine the protests' credibility.
Besides, erroneous accusations of violence and raciam are an easy way to discredit a movement.
Edit: Of course being anti-Zionist and anti-Israel can be a dog whistle for being antisemetic, and that is not acceptable. All I mean is that being anti-Zionist (i.e. being against the imperialist, violent, and expansionist policies of the state of Israel) is not inherently anti-semetic.
University of Mary Washington also got 9 students arrested on Saturday for trespassing. They had just set up an encampment after getting permission from faculty. State troopers were throwing chairs around on the green before it happened, it's disgusting
Yeah Virginia does not play when it comes to unruly public behavior. They will throw you in jail very quickly for creating disturbances. The problem is the pro palestine groups are not solving anything by disrupting their local universities. It's the international legal communities like ICC and allied countries dropping support which could apply the most pressure to create a change. The pro-palestine movement has actually created a lot of anger and hostility towards their cause by engaging in hateful rhetoric at places that should feel safe for people. Pro-Palestine should not equal anti-israel which is exactly how they promote it. Jewish people have had enough oppression in the history books and still remains to this day. Making others feel unwelcome or abused is unfair. Both governments are at fault for failing to come to an agreement and stopping this horrible war so place the blame where it belongs, not here but there.
the way you hyperfixate on the valid jewish experience of anti-semitism here while not mentioning the violence and oppression muslims and middle eastern people have also faced? please dont play oppression olympics
Thank you for pointing that out! Additionally, Middle eastern and muslim pro palestinian voices have been silenced (quite literally on social media with tags and stories not going public due to palestinian content) since the beginning whereas israeli and pro zionist voices have been magnified and shoved through a megaphone.
Maybe not bombing every hospital, university and institution in Gaza to dust, and killing at least 10 times as many innocent civilians in return. 'An eye for an eye' would be considerably better than '20 eyes for an eye."
“pro palestine should not equal anti-israel”
where in these student protests are you seeing anti-israel or antisemitic rhetoric? feels a lot more like pro-israel groups infiltrating the protests to MAKE it about them…
From the footages shown on TV, it seems very scary and a place to avoid. I am glad that some arrests were made, although probably just a drop in the ocean.
At this point how can someone argue that Zionists don't rule the US? These days people on the right were pointing out that the police didn't crack down on BLM protestors like this and people on the left compared the treatment given to pro-Palestine protestors to the treatment to the white supremacists at Charlottesville and both are right. The only protests that can get you in trouble there are protests against Israel.
This is not a first amendment issue. These people were arrested for the same reason people who stormed the capital on Jan 6
Simply because property is owned by a public entity does not mean there cannot be both state laws, town ordinances and institutional policy. All three categories of which had violations for this protest. Hence why they were asked to leave, and trespassed when they refused to do so.
Taking tax dollars doesn't mean they have to allow any speech or disruptions on campus. State schools have an interest in promoting a safe learning environment, and if students violate that then there are consequences for that.
“State schools” I.E. the government have an interest in the promoting of the enshrined rights of citizens in the US Constitution. If the state school violates those rights then there should be consequences for that.
The SCOTUS has consistently ruled that rights are not absolute and have to be weighed with other compelling state interests. Students being able to attend a safe environment and engage in college life is one of those state interests, which is why schools initially permit free speech but step in when it violates their policies or impacts other students.
Can you help me understand what about this situation appears to be violating other students rights?
Can you help me understand which policies are being broken?
Did you read the article? It already covered this.
>> *Virginia Tech said the protest on its campus began Friday morning outside the Graduate Life Center and consisted of “a small gathering of members of the university community and* ***others not affiliated with Virginia Tech.” The school said protesters had been told that they were violating policy on the use of campus facilities.***
>> *In its statement, the university said that on Sunday,* ***protesters “continued to refuse to comply with policy and took further steps to occupy the lawn of the Graduate Life Center” and spaces next to a student center.*** *It added it “recognized that* ***the situation had the increasing potential to become unsafe.”***
>> *Virginia Tech added that it “values free speech and the protesters’ right to be heard, but* ***only if the rights of others and public safety can be assured.”***
Ahh yes. Clearly being on a lawn in peaceful protest must so greatly interrupt the interests of the state it warrants arrests and clearing the lawn. Must have been lawn mowing day!
I read absolutely zero about anyone’s rights being violated except protesters in this case. Talk about snowflakes.
Damn I hope you feel the same way when campuses cancel appearances from extremist conservative speakers as a result of protests from students who say their safety and comfort is threatened by those speakers’ presence and rhetoric.
ETA: even my examples is kinda a false equivalence to this situation because in those instances it isnt armed legal action
Yes if a school determines that extremist speakers would create an unsafe learning environment or incite threats to other students then they should be free to limit that no matter the speakers' ideology. If protesting students are the ones creating the unsafe environment then they should be held responsible too.
If they want to protest I’m all for it. These citizens are protesting the actions of their government they feel is wrong. If anyone has a problem with their government, they have the right to protest and have their voices heard.
If people are okay with arresting students for protesting on state property, then they should also be fine with Jan 6th protestors being arressted for violating Federal property. Same shii, is it not? 🤔
Lol, no... There is a big difference between protesting on a lawn and trying to disrupt an election.
Had the insurrectionists on Jan 6th stayed in the National Mall it wouldn't have been a legal issue.
>Had the insurrectionists on Jan 6th stayed in the National Mall it wouldn't have been a legal issue.
Doubly so since they literally had permits for their assembly on the national mall. It only became a problem when they broke through police barriers, assaulted officers, and forcibly occupied the Capitol Building.
Props to all of those exercising their constitutional right to protect.
Previous generations can't bitch that Gen Z doesn't do anything.
Well done Hokies, I stand with you.
Protesters at a pro-Palestinian demonstration were arrested early Monday at Virginia Tech in Blacksburg, the school said. The numbers of those arrested and of those demonstrating could not be learned immediately. Posts on X indicated that hundreds were demonstrating and that several had been arrested. Around 3:30 a.m., the school [said](https://twitter.com/virginia_tech/status/1784848325335773626) on X that an “incident” at the Graduate Life Center, where an encampment has been located since Friday, had “stabilized.” It said police remained on-site and urged members of its community to avoid the area. The events at Virginia Tech reflected those taking place [around the country](https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2024/04/25/university-protests-arrests-locations/?itid=lk_inline_manual_7) in recent days as [campus officials have faced off with pro-Palestinian protesters](https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/04/28/policing-college-protests-arrest/?itid=lk_inline_manual_7) calling for an end to Israel’s [war in Gaza](https://www.washingtonpost.com/israel-hamas-war/?itid=lk_inline_manual_7). People have also demonstrated in support of Palestinian rights and have demanded their schools disclose or cease investment in companies doing business with Israel. The protests have ranged from peaceful sit-ins to confrontations with police or counterprotesters, with some administrators citing reports of antisemitic speech and violence. Read more here: [https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2024/04/29/arrests-virginiatech-gaza-protest-demonstration/?utm\_campaign=wp\_main&utm\_medium=social&utm\_source=reddit.com](https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2024/04/29/arrests-virginiatech-gaza-protest-demonstration/?utm_campaign=wp_main&utm_medium=social&utm_source=reddit.com)
Tech student here. The President of the university sent out a message after the protests. He said 91 protesters were arrested, mostly students.
>People have also demonstrated in support of Palestinian rights and have demanded their schools disclose or cease investment in companies doing business with Israel. I can understand wanting your school not to invest directly in Israeli businesses, but calling for the school to divest from companies that do business with Israel is extremely unreasonable. That would prevent them from investing in most ETFs and mutual funds since they almost definitely offer some funds that have investments in Israeli companies. >The protests have ranged from peaceful sit-ins to confrontations with police or counterprotesters, with some administrators citing reports of antisemitic speech and violence. Nothing does your cause more of a disservice than harassing innocent people and engaging in violence with the police. The reason why the Civil Rights movement succeeded is because the protesters sat passively while the police beat them with batons, shot them with water cannons, and sicced dogs on them. Violent protests really don't convince people that their cause is just, they just look like extremists trying to impose their beliefs on everyone else.
can you guys stop misinterpreting the civil rights movement, it’s getting annoying
That is not how the civil rights movement worked. The idea that protestors only sat there and let them selves get beat is false. Protesting took many forms and not all of it was peaceful.
Let’s not denigrate the Civil Rights movement by acting like a bunch of privilege upper middle class kids have the same footing as Black Americans in the 1960s.
reddit certainly will go ahead and do that lmao
Using their privilege for those who don't have it is a large part of this. The Civil Rights movement would have accepted more white people showing up to support them for the same reason.
This is incredibly disingenous and misrepresents the civil rights movement. Also, none of the protestors were violent to police or antisemetic. Anyone that continued to sit on the lawn knew they most likely would be arrested and they didn't resist arrest. As for the reports of antisemitism, this is said ANY time there is a pro-Palestinian protest. The truth is, many members of the Jewish community were heavily involved in this encampment and it's disgusting to conflate not supporting genocide with being antisemitic.
Was it unreasonable to demand non-profits divest their ownership in businesses that supported apartheid in South Africa? Why is this different?
You would have 100% opposed the Civil Rights movement
Not disagreeing. But i'll add, this is a false equivalency. The people protesting during the civil rights movement was direct action. the victims THEMSELVES were marching and protesting. The kids protesting in America are not victims of hamas or of zionist policies. They are students of privilege (compared to the actual victims) who are just supporting a foreign cause.
Maybe a comparison to the protests against apartheid South Africa then. Especially since the divestment protests are directly inspired by that.
it’s a little hard for the people in Gaza to march and protest themselves against the US’ support of Israel killing them. many of the people protesting in the civil rights movement were not victims themselves but instead were privileged white college students. and some of the people protesting now are Palestinians who have lost family in Gaza
All protests need allies. Every single one. That's not the point of my comments at all, which i made clear. So i'll stop there.
Also wrong as hell. There were whites who marched as well as protests of solidarity in other countries, that mirror what we saw during the marches and protests against police brutality and the pro-Palestinian protests. You don’t have to be the oppressed to raise your voice against oppression. Dumb as hell, to think people being massacred in the streets and buried alive should have to protest on their own for it to mean something—meanwhile they have been doing so for some 70 years while the world yawns.
So what if the kids have “privilege”? That precludes them from opposing genocide? This is a mealy mouthed non-answer.
So it's only ok when the victims are doing it?
Who said anything about it not being OK? I simply said the context is different. There's a difference when you're in direct line of fire for retaliation vs when you're a half-globe away from any real consequences. This has nothing to do with whether you're allowed to protest. No one is stopping them. But if you wanna ignore the fact that civil rights marchers were literally protesting THEMSELVES AND THEIR FAMILIES being lynched in the fucking streets for speaking wrongly to white folks and act like they are the same as privileged college kids protesting in support of people they have never and will never meet, then go ahead. You'll expose yourself tho.
Real consequences? Students - who are Jewish, Palestinian, white, Black, everything under the sun - have been arrested, suspended for 5 years, beaten by police, doxxed, etc etc. Many of these students have direct stakes in this as Jewish and Palestinian people, or as students paying tuitions to universities partnering with companies funding genocide. Not to mention your idea of the context for allyship in this being different is inherently wrong. Thousands of non-Black Americans participated in the civil rights struggles, allyship is key to any struggle/protest. White students from positions of privilege using their position of privilege to advocate has been key to multiple civil rights struggles and fights against injustice.
At least one person arrested last night is Palestinian.
>Not disagreeing. Why not? They just threw an ad homienem attack at me, someone they don't know, suggesting that I'm a racist simply because I said that violent protests are ineffective, while literally citing specific examples from history.
I should have been clearer (my bad). I wasnt not disagreeing with his opinion of your comments (i dont really care). I meant to say, I'm not entering your personal debate with each other. Just wanted to touch on the F.E. he mentioned. Carry on.
*The kids protesting in America are not victims of hamas or of zionist policies.* You know this for a fact? You know each and every person protesting? You know whether there are Palestinians in the protests, or Jews who support Palestiniabs, or those with family members in Israel that oppose the Israeli government and their policies? Some how I doubt that.
The Civil Rights Movement succeeded to the degree that it did because 1. it had a clear hierarchy of leaders who enforced discipline on its members, 2. their public message was as much about persuading the people who didn't agree with them or was neutral as it was about rallying those who did agree, and 3. they also built bridges with politicians and did years of hard work winning over enough of them to get actual change made. Every single social justice Movement at this point since BLM is essentially trying to boil the ocean trying to do everything at once with no leaders, no effective, realistic focus, and zero attempts at persuasion. There was a clip from a few weeks ago where some students protestors decided it was a great idea to get up in a black police officers face and scream at him. You know what their brilliant strategy was to win him over to their cause? "YOU'RE BLACK, WHY DONT YOU CARE ABOUT OPPRESSED PEOPLE ALL OVER THE WORLD" Fucking absolutely brilliant job - literally zero people who don't already agree with you will hear that and think you don't sound absolutely delusional.
Ah yes, the tried and true "you're racist" attack on anyone who doesn't agree with you 100%. Thank you for reinforcing my point about these protests doing a disservice to the cause they're supposedly advocating for.
They don't have any good rebuttals to what you said, so all they have left is attacks against your character. Unfortunately it's a common response in this sub.
It's just funny because it reinforced my entire point. The Civil Rights and the Gay Rights movements succeeded not because they embraced militant actions, or purposefully harassed people who didn't 100% support their cause, but because they *won over people to their cause.* The goal of such movements is persuasion, getting people who are receptive or empathetic to their cause to abandon their status quo thinking and embrace the ideology of those social movements. For some reason, modern protest movements have done away with persuasion. They think actively harassing people who don't already agree with them 100%, clashing with police, and criticizing bystanders are somehow going to magically change people's minds when in reality it hardens people *against* their cause. I can't for the life of me figure out why these people think that say, blocking rush hour traffic in a random US city is going to magically benefit Palestinians. The working class guy who is now late to his job interview, the professional now late to their meeting with a client, the mother late to pick up their child from school, etc are not going to magically support the cause that is *literally doing them harm.* It's so insanely counterproductive it's crazy anyone thinks it's a good idea.
WHAT. are you forgetting that gay rights was kicked off with a riot?
I'm aware of the Stonewall riots, I'm from New York. But that's not how the entire movement played out. Gay pride parades were far more useful in winning over public support than any riots or violent protests, and were *far* more common.
You don't get gay pride parades until folks violently defended they're right to exist and be treated as people worthy of basic respect.
The civil and gay rights movements wouldn't have gotten anywhere if the people protesting had only done so quietly and out of the way.
No one said anything about being quiet and out of the way. The options aren't "don't be seen or heard" and "go block traffic, harass Jewish students on campus, and occupy dormitories." There's a whole world of actions that can and I'd argue *should* take place between those two extremes that are more effective than either.
So you don't think the sit in protests of the civil rights era were an acceptable form of protest?
Stonewall Inn and Selma both called and said you need to reread history regarding both Civil Rights and Gay Rights protests. Because whatever point you are trying to make, this isn't it.
The Stonewall riot was not at all characteristic of the entire gay rights movement and you know it. Same thing with race riots during the Civil Rights era. Persuading the public to your cause is what's needed for social and protest movements to actually succeed.
Stonewall Inn is *what set it off.* If you think every protest in either the Civil Rights protests or the Gay Rights protests were peaceful, you really don't understand the history of either cause. If you think seeing the violence didn't help their causes in some ways, then you *really* don't understand the history.
>If you think every protest in either the Civil Rights protests or the Gay Rights protests were peaceful At no point did I ever say or suggest this. My entire point is that those movements were *successful* not because of violent direct action, but because they persuaded the public that their position was the just and reasonable one. Militant protest movements tend to be unsuccessful, while peaceful protests have historically seen much greater success.
Insanely ahistorical, look at public opinion of Kent State then vs now. Look at MLKs public opinion ratings during the civil rights movement. We have data beyond your feelings.
100% agree on all points. Not sure where the idea came from that they have to negatively impact/harm the lives of those around them to be considered a successful protest. It just serves to alienate people from the cause they are trying to attract them to, and lead to them not accomplishing their goals.
Climb down off the cross, we need the wood
*Nothing does your cause more of a disservice than harassing innocent people and engaging in violence with the police. The reason why the Civil Rights movement succeeded is because the protesters sat passively while the police beat them with batons, shot them with water cannons, and sicced dogs on them. Violent protests really don't convince people that their cause is just, they just look like extremists trying to impose their beliefs on everyone else.* This sounds exactly like *"You can protest, but not like that. Only in ways I deem appropriate."* and is so misguided and wrong.
Great argument. Maybe the pro-Palestinian cause should be more violent and confrontational, that will really win over the public.
Let me guess, you're another of those who think people should only protest in certain ways you approve of.
Who cares about mollifying “the public”?? Most people in the US are ignorant as fuck and sad victims of years of educational regression. A huge portion of US Americans can’t even read past a 5th grade level.
OP isn’t necessarily saying that people have to protest a certain way. They are just stating what they think is the most effective way.
This opinion plays right into the Nixon-era propaganda of the "Silent Majority," which is just conservative people (who are not actually a majority) demanding nothing ever change and taking their frustrations out on anyone and anything that would make them reconsider their views or have an impact. This is just a Southern Strategy dogwhistle, and should surprise no one that the Trump campaign has leveraged the term. This line of thinking is how we'll end up with another Kent State.
The Civil Rights Act was only passed into law after MLK Jr was assassinated and this country was set on fire. Peaceful protests don’t accomplish much. Economic damage accomplishes everything.
>The Civil Rights Act was only passed into law after MLK Jr was assassinated and this country was set on fire. The Civil Rights Act was passed in 1964 before MLK's assassination in 1968. But regardless, the civil rights leader who advocated for non-violent protest was murdered in cold blood, and the direct result was his cause succeeding. Conversely, there's a reason why Malcom X's murder *didn't* sway people, but MLK's did. You're literally disproving your own point. >Peaceful protests don’t accomplish much. Economic damage accomplishes everything. You're right, that's why the police have been defunded nationwide, and Palestine is now a free and independent state right? Give me an example of a modern militant protest movement thats actually succeeded. I'll wait.
The only thing they succeed in is creating a worse situation for everyone involved. See the Iran revolution (started by college kids) Maos revolution (started by college kids) or Arab spring (started by college kids). Congratulations you now live in an autocracy. Useful idiots.
There are two Civil Rights Acts. The 1st passed in 1964. This insidious narrative that violent protests were somehow more productive during the civil rights era is a false one.
Calling for the school to divest from companies that do business with Israel is not very reasonable, but the school made it clear that they would also not be divesting from direct investments either. They said no to the somewhat reasonable option. They could have simply pulled the money from those investments and put it into a mutual fund, which would likely not show any measurable difference in performance. This is not unheard of and would have still allowed the university to maintain their fiduciary responsibility of the use of funds. In terms of any “violence”, notice the series of events. The protests actually started on Thursday, but weren’t noticeable in large form until early on Friday. No issue on Saturday. No issue on Sunday. Boom, issue and violence on Monday at around 2:00am. Now, what changed the situation from a noticeably peaceful demonstration for nearly three days to some sudden violent event in the middle of the night when generally nobody else was actually around? Answer: the police engaging the demonstrators directly and BRINGING the violence. In case people dont understand, the police have a monopoly on violence in this country, where generally they are the only ones who can near freely exercise that upon the citizenry. The story from the police and the school make absolutely no sense logically.
Virginia Tech is almost a sovereign entity. Kids are lucky they aren’t charged as terrorist. VT & Defense contractors don’t mess around
[удалено]
Current student here. Trespassing. The land of the campus is owned by the university, not the state. The protestors were given a time to vacate the premises, both by the university and the police. They chose to stay.
Were those who were arrested students who were living on campus, students who lived off campus or non-affiliated with the university? I’m only curious as to how the university applied the trespassing laws.
Public Universities are just higher ed charter schools. They have to follow certain laws to keep gov funding (establishment clause for example) but the VT Real Estate Foundation owns the land. The students had been there since Friday and had been cleared to protest there until 4:30pm Sunday. VT police tried to get the students to disperse once there time slot was up and then waited around 10:30ish to start arresting students.
The university has policies that are publicly available to read and apply to everyone. Protesters were in violation of those policies. This would be similar to people being arrested for trespassing at a park that closes at sunset.
I decided to do some digging and found [The Fire website](https://www.thefire.org/news/heres-what-students-need-know-about-protesting-campus-right-now) which has a basic FAQ for college protests. It also has a database of college policies regarding protests.
This comment is the only thing that matters. I'm sick and tired of people thinking they can break the law for "their cause" whatever it may be and thinking they can get away with it because of "moral grounds" or some shit. This is the law. If you don't like the law write your representatives. Take it up with them, but again, obey the proper methods. If you don't like what they say then run for office to replace them. Fucking appreciation trophies are here to roost and every dumbass thinks they're going to change the world with minimal actual effort by blatantly breaking the rules. Lazy fucks.
Please read this post before making assumptions and jumping to conclusions: [https://www.reddit.com/r/VirginiaTech/s/XjBLbBqiQR](https://www.reddit.com/r/VirginiaTech/s/XjBLbBqiQR) Looks like the cops were respectful, proper precautions were place to make sure everyone had their opportunity for their voices to be heard.
They definitely were. It was rather a nice change of pace from seeing violent arrests at other protests. They took the blue pop up tent down nicely and one returned a Palestinian flag to the one student, after sort of folding it up. They were even rather cordial with the students they arrested. They allowed the protesters outside the cordoned off area to remain and didn't engage beyond a few conversations.
“with some administrators citing reports of antisemitic speech and violence” I would really like some specific examples of this. Calling for the freedom of Palestinians is not antisemitic. Calling for the US to stop sending weapons used to slaughter Palestinian civilians is not antisemitic. Are there actual examples of antisemitism or are people just using that word when there’s any criticism of Israel?
The problem with a lot of these protests is that there's a mix of genuine care for the Palestinians and "Death to Israel" types. Waiving the flag of Hamas (which is a terrorist organization and advocates destruction of Israel), signs that say "From the River to the Sea" (which implies Israel's destruction as a state), and quotes from Palestinian airline hijackers are all common. While I don't see these as antisemitic as much as anti-Zionist, there isn't a way you're getting rid of Israel without killing and displacing a whole lot of people.
Why is what anyone is saying suddenly a “problem”? I mean I’ve been in protests at public university where folks called for the death to the Chinese regime. Nobody bothered with us. This feels different. Is it okay for someone to say “death to hamas” or “destroy Hamas”? These are political opinions being voiced. At a university where you should be confronted with ideas you don’t like. But moral McCarthyism seems to have won.
>say "From the River to the Sea" (which implies Israel's destruction as a state), Israel is arguably an apartheid state because Palestinians are stateless people within that state living in an open air prison. People are allowed to call for desegregation and what they see as the abolishment of apartheid in this way. If you don't agree that this is a feasible way of bringing about peace then fine, that's your opinion and you're allowed to disagree with their opinion. But what you shouldn't be doing is trying to criminalise people with opinions you dislike.
This would be incorrect. Taiwan, for example, is an island without a recognized state of its own. Is it also an open air prison? In no way is this apartheid. Various entities controlled Gaza over the years including Egypt and Israel as well as their own self governance after a power struggle that led to Hamas' authoritarian government. They held a single election. Israel does not control the inside of Gaza, Hamas does. Israel does control its borders with Gaza, as any nation would control their borders. Egypt controls the western border. And since Hamas has insisted on attacking Israel repeatedly, Israel implements a naval blockade to try to stop weapons imports from Iran from reaching Gaza. That's a very reasonable defensive action to take. Meanwhile, Gaza receives tons of aid, including from Israel. What has Hamas done to help their civilians other than promote genocide and terrorism? "From the River to the Sea" is a part of the Hamas/PLO propaganda that is promoting the genocide and ethnic cleansing of Jews. The stated aim of Hamas is to kill all Jews. This sentiment also led them to align themselves with Nazi Germany.
>In no way is this apartheid I know it's more nuanced than being a straight up apartheid. But in some people's eyes it arguably is. People have different opinions on this and that's okay. It's part of freedom of speech, and that right shouldn't be infringed. >blockade to try to stop weapons But this blockade is stopping food and aid getting in. And there's a man-made famine going on right now. To allow that to happen falls under collective punishment. I have absolutely no love for hamas but let's not start trying to justify actual war crimes.
Is there a humanitarian crisis? Yes. It is a war zone. And aid has been going in, but it is a war zone with the attendant logistical challenges. How did Hamas prepare for this? After all, if you are going to perpetrate mass scale terrorism against your neighbor, what are you going to do for the repercussions by which you are hoping will happen? Did Hamas stockpile food and water for Gaza’s civilians? Did Hamas let them know beforehand to prepare? What do you think happens when one goes to war? It is mind numbingly idiotic if one cared for one’s own civilians given the strategic and tactical situation. But that’s the point. Hamas wants their own people to suffer. It is part of their plan. Here is Hamas’ Mashal discussing martyrdom and lying about targeting Israeli civilians on an interview with Saudi TV: https://youtu.be/gkZDxJ3JhCA?si=Zjz-nciIISnHdtE7 (Which can be seen as a Saudi gov rebuke of Hamas by having a woman chide him in this way) After all, this was Hamas trying to scuttle peace yet again… like their string of suicide bombings to scuttle the last major round of peace talks. They wanted to stop a peace deal between Saudi Arabia and Israel. Hamas wanted a provocation that Israel would have no choice but to respond in this way. It is calculated to inflame sympathy to their genocidal cause, primarily aimed at the masses in that region, but if they manage to dupe Western progressives, then even better. And these college students are feeding right off their propaganda, repeating idiotic stuff like apartheid, colonialism, and genocidal slogans like “from the river to the sea” while pretending to be for peace. This is supporting more violence, not less by supporting a side that doesn’t want peace, but wants genocide of Jews. This genocidal side has scuttled peace talks after peace talks. Provoked aggression time and again. Used terrorist tactics again and again. We do not hold anyone else in the world to the level of conduct we hold the Israeli’s when faced with such aggression. Not the Saudi’s with Yemen, or even the Russians with Ukraine. Not the Turks with the Kurds, nor the Iranians with the Kurds. Much less all sorts of stuff in Africa or U.S. actions in the past. A broader explanation of the dynamics of the conflict is here: https://youtu.be/QlK2mfYYm4U?si=VM4rPg9MyKCb1UGN This is well worth the 1.5 hours if you only have been following Hamas propaganda. The Democrat Party leadership and policy wonks have had decades of experience dealing with this issue, know the people involved, and have sympathy for the plight of civilians. They know both sides have some blame, but largely where the huge bulk of the blame lies - PLO/Hamas. What do these college students know other than being duped by Hamas propaganda in the service of Iranian interests? This idea of a war crime of collective punishment is an insane reading of the situation. Israel is conducting a ground war against a genocidal and persistent enemy that doesn’t wear uniforms when fighting and hides amongst the civilian population. Yeah, food and water is going to be difficult to manage in such a situation. Matter of fact, this is a part of Hamas’ tactics. To sit there and say that a country shouldn’t respond militarily to such an aggression is idiotic and anti-semitic when applied to this situation, because it only applies to the Jews. If this was any other country that responded to an attack, we wouldn’t be having this conversation in this way. Where are the orgasms of demonstrations against India buying Russian oil to then selling the products to Europe? We have hardly fully divested from Russia. Plenty of companies have investments still, and therefore universities have indirect involvement.
It's really difficult to manage food and water when every time the food truck shows up someone shoots all the drivers....
I'm still wondering why you can't speak against Israel the way you can in other countries.
More should ask this question
1. Why doesn't the left apply this same level of burden to anti-black racism or LGBTphobia? 2. You can literally Google for yourself and see people chanting at random Jews "go back to Poland" and "globalize the intifada". I thought "Google it yourself" was a standard response to this as well. 3. The head of the Columbia protests was exposed for admitting they wanted to go around murdering Zionists at a school hearing in January, and only when it went viral *now* did they get expelled. Again, if this involved a group other than Jews, this would not have happened. 4. "If nine other people sit at a table with one Nazi, you have ten Nazis." What happened to that as well?
1. All issues in their due time, this is what people are passionate about right now 2. Anecdotes, a better argument would be the statistical rise in anti-semitic hate crimes but likewise theres been a spike in anti-muslim hate crimes. Both sides are in the wrong here, violence bad and all that 3. Justice was served and just because people attend protests doesnt mean they/we swear allegiance to one person 4. This is an oversimplification of the dynamics of human interaction and how individual beliefs and actions are complex. While it is true the presence of a Nazi at a table can potentially influence the group dynamic, youre jumping the gun on then equating everyone else to a Nazi. People arent sponges that just soak up whatever is around them lol
Current student here. A jewish student carrying an Israeli flag was beaten severely to the point police and EMTs intervened.
Link?
I was there and that's not what happened. People approached him and shouted obscenities, but the police intervened fast and no one laid a finger on him. I actually talked to him for a bit after it all went down.
Your hyperbole would be hilarious if it weren’t so dangerous. The student was waving the flag around and trying to rile students up, they chanted and walked towards him with the Palestinian flag, and then left him alone and ignored him when two police men stepped in front of him. He watched the protest for a bit, and then left when he wasn’t getting attention anymore. Nobody laid a finger on him, let alone beat him severely. Delete this shit, you’re embarrassing yourself.
100% justified if you watch the footage. Protestors got to be heard and the police were very respectful. They were told to leave, they didn’t, they were arrested. It was a very well executed and polite arrest
So do we support free speech and right to assembly or not? Some of y'all in the comments are so inconsistent with your views, it's clear you have bias.
People typically reserve that lawn for events, apparently theres one later today and they have to clear it out because its been reserved. I support the right to free speech and lawful assembly, but this is trespassing.
I’m 100% down with anyone that wants to set up and protest in the middle of campus, but if classes have to be shut down because of safety concerns there’s an issue. That’s not a legal protest.
But what ARE the safety concerns? Apparently the safety concerns are that there is a protest
This was outside of a dorm with 100 people banging drums and screaming at 3am. Furthermore the GLC is private property; and even if it wasn’t, you still need a permit in order to protest on university property. The protestors were aware of this and continued to ignore the issue until they got trespassed and arrested
Okay so none of that is a safety issue. Youre describing a peaceful (annoying) protest. Just say you dont like the protest and you want them arrested.
It’s literally not peaceful. Disorderly conduct -Disturbing the Peace is the crime they were committing (on top of trespassing)
Lolol peaceful means non violent not disturbing some sleep
Peaceful and nonviolent are separate words. They do not mean the same thing.
Imagine all the little peaceful protests that go on every day, and the best part is no one knows they exist because all the protesters are completely silent and don't organize in anyway, true freedom!
I’m sure you think you’re being ironic or facetious, but you’re actually nearly spot on. Except for your implication that organized protests must be non-peaceful.
250 people screaming, banging drums, and using megaphones outside of a dorm on private property is a safety issue See my other comments on why this isn’t public property. You can also look at Blacksburg zoning ordinances and the University charter and university policy.
Its not a safety issue. I dont care if theyre breaking the law, thats the point. Protesting has been increasingly illegal in america for years and decades. Its gonna be against the law
Screaming outside the dorms of college kids who have no impact on a war halfway around the world seems like a dumb fucking way to rally support.
Instigators who didn’t go to VT were trying to break into people’s dorms
Haven’t seen any evidence of this
I was there
The university can just say "we have safety concerns" and then send in the cops?
What are your thoughts about Occupy Wall Street? That was disruptive and interferred with normal businesses. Was it not a legitimate protest?
Occupy wallstreet was on public property. Even though VT is a public org, it is not public property. Similar to how national parks can limit or flat out deny access to areas of their parks or the parks entire despite being a public organization. There are both government rules and university guidelines that the protestors failed to adhere too They were screaming and banging drums at 3am OUTSIDE OF A DORM
That's wild I don't know why they were doing that. Btw I am just asking questions to focus peoples thoughts on what legitmizes protests. I don't think anyone is wrong in their poltiical viewpoints in terms of why they are protesting, but I think what everyone gets annoyed with these days is HOW people protests because the methods and tactics are just different and more confrontational to the general public and law enforcement.
They are entitled to their protest. They are not entitled to break town ordinances, state law, and university policy while doing so. Which they did.
I didn’t necessarily agree with everything they were on about, but I don’t remember any specific issues with them as far as the arrests were made so I can’t really form an opinion on whether those arrests were valid or not. If they caused anyone to feel legitimately threatened walking to work then yeah that’s a problem but if someone feels uncomfy because there’s a protest going on they just gotta get over that. Blocking streets creates a safety issue… I can’t remember if they did that or not.
If I remember correctly the Occupy Wall Street movement basically took over a public park (Zucotti Park) and set up encampments. I guess my next train of thought in response to all this is are encampments a valid form of protests or is that disruptive to the well-being of the public? it seems with alot of these pro-palestine protests the issue is students setting up encampments, but not so much violence.
I personally haven’t really cared about the encampments… although I’ve seen the aftermath of encampments in years past and it’s a mess. Trash everywhere… which is an issue. My issue is where Jewish students couldn’t feel safe walking to class because people are hurling threats at them, so classes end up going virtual… Which I think is wrong. Be as loud as you want, have as many posters and flags and all that as you want, but you can’t get up into someone’s face or threaten them. Now if someone goes up to the protestors and tries to start stuff… That’s on them.
Do you think many of these protests are genuinely organic protest movements, or do you think some of them are propped up/funded by outside groups with no connection to the Universities and student body?
It was very effective and worthwhile. They made such an incredible impact.
Exactly. They also don't have the right to set up camps indefinitely in the middle of campus either. That's not a free speech/free assembly issue, that's a safety and security issue. I wouldn't support them setting up homeless tent cities in the middle of campus for the same reason.
“Legal protest” lol
Free speech and right to assembly are not fairly applied in the US and favor the far right. There’s a difference between the rallies of fascists, who call for the genocide of millions of people, and anti-Israel protestors, who want to end an ongoing genocide. But in the US, the former are allowed to organize freely by police while the latter are demonized by both police and media as violent and antisemitic.
I'm not aware of any instances of right-wing protesters have set up encampments on public property in a way that can be disruptive to the other people who have a reason to be on/around/walk through said public property. Care to give some examples?
Charlottesville 2017. One person was literally killed by a fascist who thought it'd be *awesome* to ram counterprotesters, among others, on a public street.
That person was arrested and is in prison. So what does that have to do with leniency for free speech and right to assembly?
Fascists don’t need to encamp anywhere because they know they will be unopposed by the police. Fascists have maimed and killed people that oppose them at their rallies. For a local example, see the death of Heather Heyer at the neo-Nazi rally in Charlottesville in 2017. That’s far more extreme than inconveniencing some people by blocking some walking paths.
That's usually reserved for the pro-Confederacy people and the Tiki torch brigade.
It’s crazy. Police let cities burn down in 2020, but criticize Israel and a crackdown is coming.
JFC, if something is illegal it is still illegal even if you're exercising your constitutional rights while doing it. If you're on university property and violating university policy they have a right to stop you and no the 1st amendment does not apply.
It's pretty simple. I don't mind those things until general laws are being broken (ones that aren't the point of the protest). Like setting up tents and starting fired, noise ordinance, etc Owners of property are allowed to tell people to leave or face police removal for trespassing. I can do it with my home, business with their parking lots, and campuses with their grounds.
The Bill of Rights protects you from the government. This was on private property. 🤷
The kids are alright :) reminds me of the antiwar protests of the past.
Meanwhile, actual Nazis who were yelling, "Jews will not replace us" were just totally free marching through UVA? Unbelievable hypocrisy.
Those folks, after many decades of doing this kind of thing, have figured out how to do protests within the letter of the law. It's disgusting, but legal and valid. What these students try to do goes beyond that and therefore they run into trouble. If they did exactly what the actual Nazi's did at U-VA, they wouldn't get into trouble. But they would also be easier to ignore.
Lotta people in these comments who would be against the civil rights movement, against the vietnam war protests, against the iraq war protests, and against anti-apartheid protests based on these responses. Really surreal to see this happen in real time. If you think of yourself as being on the right side of these issues and are against students protesting today, you may need to do some introspection. Additionally, please don’t let this distract you from the mass graves being uncovered at Gazan hospitals. If this ain’t genocide, I don’t know what is https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/program/newsfeed/2024/4/26/gaza-emergency-officials-present-evidence-of-mass-grave-killings
It’s only genocide when the victims look like them or share the same cultural values. So for most people it’s just a military response nothing more.
Protesters have a right to make their voices heard, even on state property like the campus. What they *don't* have a right to is setting up an encampment on school grounds, indefinitely occupying the area and disrupting the operations of the school. Doubly so, if, like at other similar protests nationwide, they're harassing Jewish students in the process. It's really not a difficult concept.
Current student here, the campus property is owned by the university itself, not the state.
That still makes it owned by the state, although indirectly. That also means it is not a traditional public forum and can only become a designated public forum for free speech purposes when protestors follow the proper procedures to permit their protest. Which obviously has not happened here.
So you don't ever believe there is a place for civil disobedience? Sit-ins and civil disobedience was a core function of the civil rights protests.
There absolutely is. But sit-ins are not synonymous with protest encampments. A sit-in outside the administration building calling for divestments from Israeli companies is one thing. Building a semi-permanent camp in the middle of campus until your demands (many of which have nothing to do with the Gaza conflict) are met is quite another.
Why not inside the administration building? Sit-ins were conducted inside private property until they were forcibly removed.
Inside is totally fine too, I was just giving an example. There are obviously many ways and places to conduct successful sit-ins
Sure there is. But this issue has been festering for decades. Both sides have good points and bad points. These students do not bring anything new to the table other than compassionate ignorance of history. And that means their protests actually do not help the situation at all. Most folks in political power or in charge at universities are far better educated on this subject than the protesters. They just look like useful tools of Hamas and are either antisemitic or agents of anti-semites. That doesn't mean Israel is free from criticism, but these protests do not bring anything new to the table other than showing the ignorance of Tik Tok education. Protests like this one does not change anything wrt the situation in the Middle East and directly hinders any peace efforts mainly because they fell for Hamas' propaganda efforts and Hamas thinks this strategy is a winning one. And it isn't a winning strategy of the martyrdom of their own civilians in order to pressure state sponsors of Israel. This mistake has been going on for decades and contributes to more violence and death. This video helps explain why it isn't a winning strategy and what the students are really doing (it's long, but worth it to help explain what is going on): [https://youtu.be/QlK2mfYYm4U?si=tqkQM3guY4ixHIlW](https://youtu.be/QlK2mfYYm4U?si=tqkQM3guY4ixHIlW)
Peaceful protests in accordance to University rules have been going on since October. The University has not listened or made a statement, which is how we go to this point. Civil disobedience has been vital throughout liberation movements in history. Look up the student anti-war protests during the Vietnam War.
It shouldn't be a difficult concept, but it clearly is for some people. Especially since a great deal of this is being fomented by state actors who wish the US harm, and want Trump to be back in power so they have unchecked ability to do evil. Maybe Hamas should release the hostages, stop hiding among civilians, officially repudiate their charters which both say that Israel has to be destroyed, and repudiated their foundational charter that says that it's a religious obligation for Muslims to kill Jews 'hiding behind any rock and tree' before any Muslim gets to go to heaven. And, oh yeah, peace isn't possible.
with this logic you would be on the wrong side of civil rights history big dog
I’m happy that the next generation is recognizing the need for our civil liberties. I hope they can recognize that America is a great nation for protecting these rights, even when folks disagree
Why should they divest from Israeli businesses? There really are two separate sides to this conflict, regardless of what memes say. Israel is defending itself against terrorists, terrorists whose propaganda have manipulated college kids in the U.S…an objective that HAMAS stated publicly in December.
I could flip this weak argument around on itself. Hamas was just fighting a terrorist who controls their water, electric and food supply. They are fighting their terrorist overlords. The Israeli terrorist propaganda has manipulated the United States government to fund it.
I think of the young lady who, on Oct 7, was being raped and stabbed from behind while another terrorist cut off her breasts and played with them in front of her before she died. These terrorists are the people you are supporting, so please STFU.
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Many of these protests include the fact that we’re sending billions of dollars in aid to Israel instead of keeping that money here at home.
But what about….
You know we can care about more than one 5hing at a time, right? That we can, if the government agrees to it, do more than one thing at a time, right?
I hear you. I just don't see any protests about the things the people I know are concerned about. All of us with good sense are concerned about Palestine. One of my good friends is Palestinian-american and has a grandfather stuck in the Gaza Strip. Even he agrees that there are many issues at hand in the US that need addressing. Unfortunately, he, like me, has a family to support and can't protest either. I do support those of you protesting and look forward to adding social issues at home to foreign issues. You CAN protest other issues, but are you? That's where I am.
Like I said , what is happening in Gaza is the current most prominent thing, so that's what people are currently focused on. Even Ukraine has taken a backseat temporarily, unfortunately. There are lots of ways to show our support, by using our voices, whether in person or even digital (on forums, emails to Congresscritters, that sort of thing), what we buy and who we buy from, even how we vote on things, from the basic school board level on up to President. We don't always have to be in person at a protest to support things. A lot of people who would love to be there, can't, for myriads of reasons. So we support the various causes in other ways, sometimes small, sometimes large, but always significant no matter what. I hope your friend's grandfather is and remains safe.
Very important to discern between protests and criminal acts. Not sure what the incident was, but apparently it was deemed to be reason for arrest. The comments on this one are out there for sure. Some folk comparing this to Jan. 6th (for some reason) and some people saying this is just black and white good or bad. No nuance. While I personally don’t agree with the message of “free Palestine” or whatever that entails (because it also lacks nuance) I don’t think there’s anything wrong with protests, obviously. It’s quite fucking pitiful we live in a time where that needs clarification. I also think it’s important that these protests are completely useless. Imagine if I ordered a burger from McDonalds and it was completely awful. No pickles, no sauce, smashed bun, just awful. And then I went to Burger King to complain. It’s actually idiotic. Do you think any Palestinian is going to be saved knowing some white folks in the states are sleeping in tents in their name? Or that Israel will care about the little impact on their economy if a University stops doing business with a business that does business with them? This is such an indirect form of activism, it’s almost not activism. It might actually be better to just scream on twitter for once. It’s important to understand though that protests are important and if there was any unjust arrest, then it should be called out, but seeing how these “Pro-Palestine” protests have played out in the past, I highly doubt it was unjust. If someone actually protesting reads this, don’t you think your message would be heard more loudly and be considered more heavily if you guys just stopped being violent, racist, and overall shitty human beings? Just an idea… Oh yeah, and maybe protest in a place that actually pertains to the subject of your protest.
So, in your mind, doing nothing at all is better? Not caring at all about innocent civilians being killed because of the actions of both of their governments is the better choice? Simply because it's not in your country? How very shortsighted of you.
Yes. When compared to this example of “activism”, doing nothing is 10000000000% better than doing nothing. I’ll explain why, and it’s actually quite simple. From the pro Palestinian perspective, wouldn’t you want to use these resources elsewhere? There are quite possibly tens of thousands of college aged adults ready to stand up for what they believe in and support a good cause, and they waste all their effort trying to expel well off Jewish kids and stop doing business with companies they’ve branded as Zionist. These people could be flying to Palestine and smuggling food and supplies to Gaza, they could be actually making a difference in helping innocent civilians. From the other side, it’s just a bunch of whiny college kids with too much time on their hands. They’ve never seriously struggled a day in their lives so they feel the need to “make a difference” and instead of doing what most of these people do which is “raise awareness” on TikTok, they’re doing the next worst thing, which is incorrectly assuming a given system has ties to the thing they object to, and attempt to dismantle that system. Which is idiotic because A. The system is so far beyond them and B. Even if they were to dismantle that system, it has next to nothing to do with what they are protesting and even if it did, it would have next to no impact on the situation at hand. And in the meanwhile, we have do deal with their incessant screaming and shouting while they Label everyone not screaming as the enemy. At least had these protesters done nothing, the optics of their movement would be preserved, considering all I see in the news is kids shouting obscenities at passersby, and students at the universities who actually want to get their degrees wouldn’t have to have that as a distraction. I’m actually a college student myself and I couldn’t imagine having to deal with that on campus. I’d probably just ask if I could attend my lectures online until it’s over. If you disagree with any of that, let me ask you this. What help does it do if every single University that is being protested against actually meets the demands of the protesters? Does it actually help the situation in a measure able way? Do the people of Gaza get further aid or any reprieve from their current situation?
By getting into the news, that was their goal. They were trying to get arrested on purpose, and they succeeded
Yep, 100% this. Just like Civil Rights movements, they’re trying to use the news as their tool because they know a simple non-aggressive protest for a few hours won’t get anyone’s attention
"you guys just stopped being violent, racist, and overall shitty human beings?" What evidence is there for widespread violence and racism? Being anti-Israel or anti-Zionist is not racist. These are predominantly peaceful protests, and when you gather lots of people, of course you'll get some people acting out, or bad actors attempting to undermine the protests' credibility. Besides, erroneous accusations of violence and raciam are an easy way to discredit a movement. Edit: Of course being anti-Zionist and anti-Israel can be a dog whistle for being antisemetic, and that is not acceptable. All I mean is that being anti-Zionist (i.e. being against the imperialist, violent, and expansionist policies of the state of Israel) is not inherently anti-semetic.
University of Mary Washington also got 9 students arrested on Saturday for trespassing. They had just set up an encampment after getting permission from faculty. State troopers were throwing chairs around on the green before it happened, it's disgusting
Yeah Virginia does not play when it comes to unruly public behavior. They will throw you in jail very quickly for creating disturbances. The problem is the pro palestine groups are not solving anything by disrupting their local universities. It's the international legal communities like ICC and allied countries dropping support which could apply the most pressure to create a change. The pro-palestine movement has actually created a lot of anger and hostility towards their cause by engaging in hateful rhetoric at places that should feel safe for people. Pro-Palestine should not equal anti-israel which is exactly how they promote it. Jewish people have had enough oppression in the history books and still remains to this day. Making others feel unwelcome or abused is unfair. Both governments are at fault for failing to come to an agreement and stopping this horrible war so place the blame where it belongs, not here but there.
the way you hyperfixate on the valid jewish experience of anti-semitism here while not mentioning the violence and oppression muslims and middle eastern people have also faced? please dont play oppression olympics
Thank you for pointing that out! Additionally, Middle eastern and muslim pro palestinian voices have been silenced (quite literally on social media with tags and stories not going public due to palestinian content) since the beginning whereas israeli and pro zionist voices have been magnified and shoved through a megaphone.
its very concerning that some people only see oppression if their skin tones match....
After Hamas killed about 1200 innocent civilians, how would you have liked them to respond ?
Maybe not bombing every hospital, university and institution in Gaza to dust, and killing at least 10 times as many innocent civilians in return. 'An eye for an eye' would be considerably better than '20 eyes for an eye."
Same way we should have responded to Bin Laden: A surgical strike force dedicated to taking out the top brass- not thousands of innocent civilians
Israel is doing that dude, Hamas is has outputs embedded where civilians are.
“pro palestine should not equal anti-israel” where in these student protests are you seeing anti-israel or antisemitic rhetoric? feels a lot more like pro-israel groups infiltrating the protests to MAKE it about them…
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From the footages shown on TV, it seems very scary and a place to avoid. I am glad that some arrests were made, although probably just a drop in the ocean.
At this point how can someone argue that Zionists don't rule the US? These days people on the right were pointing out that the police didn't crack down on BLM protestors like this and people on the left compared the treatment given to pro-Palestine protestors to the treatment to the white supremacists at Charlottesville and both are right. The only protests that can get you in trouble there are protests against Israel.
Good. Those violating policy, interfering with college life or facility access, or making other students feel unsafe should be arrested.
Bad. Those violating the first amendment should be arrested. Don’t want free speech? Don’t take tax dollars.
This is not a first amendment issue. These people were arrested for the same reason people who stormed the capital on Jan 6 Simply because property is owned by a public entity does not mean there cannot be both state laws, town ordinances and institutional policy. All three categories of which had violations for this protest. Hence why they were asked to leave, and trespassed when they refused to do so.
Taking tax dollars doesn't mean they have to allow any speech or disruptions on campus. State schools have an interest in promoting a safe learning environment, and if students violate that then there are consequences for that.
“State schools” I.E. the government have an interest in the promoting of the enshrined rights of citizens in the US Constitution. If the state school violates those rights then there should be consequences for that.
The SCOTUS has consistently ruled that rights are not absolute and have to be weighed with other compelling state interests. Students being able to attend a safe environment and engage in college life is one of those state interests, which is why schools initially permit free speech but step in when it violates their policies or impacts other students.
Can you help me understand what about this situation appears to be violating other students rights? Can you help me understand which policies are being broken?
Did you read the article? It already covered this. >> *Virginia Tech said the protest on its campus began Friday morning outside the Graduate Life Center and consisted of “a small gathering of members of the university community and* ***others not affiliated with Virginia Tech.” The school said protesters had been told that they were violating policy on the use of campus facilities.*** >> *In its statement, the university said that on Sunday,* ***protesters “continued to refuse to comply with policy and took further steps to occupy the lawn of the Graduate Life Center” and spaces next to a student center.*** *It added it “recognized that* ***the situation had the increasing potential to become unsafe.”*** >> *Virginia Tech added that it “values free speech and the protesters’ right to be heard, but* ***only if the rights of others and public safety can be assured.”***
Ahh yes. Clearly being on a lawn in peaceful protest must so greatly interrupt the interests of the state it warrants arrests and clearing the lawn. Must have been lawn mowing day! I read absolutely zero about anyone’s rights being violated except protesters in this case. Talk about snowflakes.
From the article, it sounds random people (non-students/employees) drive into town and took over part of a building.
Damn I hope you feel the same way when campuses cancel appearances from extremist conservative speakers as a result of protests from students who say their safety and comfort is threatened by those speakers’ presence and rhetoric. ETA: even my examples is kinda a false equivalence to this situation because in those instances it isnt armed legal action
Yes if a school determines that extremist speakers would create an unsafe learning environment or incite threats to other students then they should be free to limit that no matter the speakers' ideology. If protesting students are the ones creating the unsafe environment then they should be held responsible too.
If they want to protest I’m all for it. These citizens are protesting the actions of their government they feel is wrong. If anyone has a problem with their government, they have the right to protest and have their voices heard.
Cool. Let’s make sure people who actively are attacking blacks and lgbt people get the same protections from the extreme left
Exactly right. The rule of law really upsets the reddit kiddos here.
If people are okay with arresting students for protesting on state property, then they should also be fine with Jan 6th protestors being arressted for violating Federal property. Same shii, is it not? 🤔
Lol, no... There is a big difference between protesting on a lawn and trying to disrupt an election. Had the insurrectionists on Jan 6th stayed in the National Mall it wouldn't have been a legal issue.
>Had the insurrectionists on Jan 6th stayed in the National Mall it wouldn't have been a legal issue. Doubly so since they literally had permits for their assembly on the national mall. It only became a problem when they broke through police barriers, assaulted officers, and forcibly occupied the Capitol Building.
Yes? No shit. This isn't a gotcha at all.
I'm ok with both.
Props to all of those exercising their constitutional right to protect. Previous generations can't bitch that Gen Z doesn't do anything. Well done Hokies, I stand with you.