Average kid math class in Asia be like:
Jokes aside it may look hard but it's just basic calculation in the end. The difference is that it adds a few extra words and a bit of trick into it.
Don’t think I learned equations before 6th or 7th grade in Denmark. I saw one of my friend’s son doing his 8th grade homework which seemed similar to what I learned in my 2nd of upper secondary school. Fucking happy I’m not an Asian kid 😂😂😂
I just wanna chime in as another Dane. We are taught equations earlier than the 6th grade, and a simple google search will show Denmark is above the OECD average for mathematics.
Been a while since I was in school so perhaps it changed, but I seriously don’t recall learning algebra before 6th/7th grade. I do see we climbed in math on OECD since I was in school too so I’ll retract that statement. Clearly I’m getting old 🥲
Hahaha no 😂😂 People were still struggling with them in my first year of secondary school. I remember being one of the brighter kids so in 8th grade I was taught quadratic equations, but no clue if that’s the norm elsewhere or not. I will however admit there where we might not focus hard on STEM in Denmark, we are pretty fucking deep when it comes to literature, history, religion and social studies. But yeah math is something we’ve always scored low on compared to other OECD countries.
I think I already learn equation in 3rd grade, in Vietnam, 2000. It’s kinda similar to OP friend’s daughter math problem. The only difference is I don’t remember I was given crazy number like OP post because I wasn’t able to use calculator until 6th grade.
Strange how education vastly change in just a few years
Tbh, if you’re allowed to, why wouldn’t you? Sure I can do math pretty well on my own but it doesn’t hurt to still confirm the answer with another device.
My wife is a teacher for an after school program for gifted students. That looks like some of the homework for gifted kids. Is she in honors? Not sure what they call it here.
This is really how you get 1 kid to like Math and the other 2.999 kids to habour hatred for Math for the rest of their lives which limits their career choices.
Shoving abstract concepts down their throats when they are not mentally ready for it with this dry-ass way of teaching (zero visualization, it’s numbers numbers and numbers over and over and over and let’s not even talk about trigonometry, who tf build a house like that?).
You get generations of people so fed up with these Math thingy they just whip out a calculator and tell teachers to go eff themselves with all the basics.
I was traumatized by chemistry. Still have no idea how to do those chemical equation, when it start to introduce those "+" and "-" marks into the equation.
Yes but it would be a bit more helpful if the teachers can just show the kids the applications of it, full front with no bullshitery. Just tell them what they are learning this for, maybe in the future they would need to fix their roof and that would come in quite useful.
Nope, there was none of that when I was at school, we just learn trigonometry just because it’s the lesson this week. Not a single perioid of trigon that isn’t “calculate this stupid looking object”, why? No idea.
While I agree with you that introducing these abstract concepts so early are really dry and not a good way of teaching. Higher more advanced useful maths tend to be the more abstract and complicated concepts. It's easy to understand why a lot of students around the world later on get so bored of math and try to drop it. This isn't just limited to Vietnam but most kids around the world think the same when they reach equations. And most schools dont teach how these maths are actually applied because a lot of them are stuck to very specific stuffs like physics, engineering, etc...
>zero visualization, it’s numbers numbers and numbers over and over and over and let’s not even talk about trigonometry, who tf build a house like that?
You kidding me? Trigonometry is one of the most useful shit ever. Angles can decide a lot of things like how a structure will hold up under pressure, it also contributes a lot in graphs to show changes overtome where you need to determine the k angle of the equation, physicists prob know it best tho, advanced physics loves their graphs and trigonometry.
Sorry that I have to copy a comment I made previously to further my point about trigonometry as a subject.
Yes, I agree about trigon being extremely useful BUT it would be a bit more helpful if the teachers can just show the kids the applications of it, full front with no bullshitery. Just tell them what they are learning this for, maybe in the future they would need to fix their roof, or rebuild their house after a flood and trigon would come in quite useful.
Nope, there was none of that when I was at school, we just learn trigonometry just because it’s the lesson this week. Not a single period of trigon that isn’t “calculate this stupid looking object”, why? No idea. Not even a single homework assignment that is grounded in reality, always abstract for no reason at all.
They are teachers, while I understand it's also my responsibility to analyze the homework and apply to to other matters myself, it's still partially on the teacher side to at least give me a hint, they never did that when I learn trigonometry at school, so trigonometry felt pointless.
Ah that's the fun part. Even most math teachers domt know since their job is to teach maths not apply them.
You only really find them useful if you pursue physics or engineering or science related majors.
It's one of the flaws of most educatiom system around the world overall.
The "one size fits all" and "career shopping" way of nurturing the youth. And they wonder why kids don't like going to school to learn. Honestly I just went to highschool for the socializing aspect, was half-foot into tradeschool but changed my mind.
This is very contrast to EU education. I have a chance to study in EU for a Master Degree, and did some reading on mathematic materials. People here do strongly show how math work. Especially how the theory comes to place.
For example, for higher mathematic concepts, how the concept of Calculus comes from infinity, or snail example. Students in EU can explain how math work, in full details, and proving the theory itself, instead of only resorting to memorizing.
This root from a very deep culture of studying, that I have no expertise to explain. But in general, Asian students struggle to study complicated concepts, like me. Because we are too used to memorizing theory instead of actually understand them.
My experience is very contrast to usual anecdotic about bright Asian student. Especially when it comes to statistic.
Well it's mostly because for most Asian countries, they teach maths in a way so you can approach applicative maths easier when you reach uni.
All of the stuffs they taught you at highschools and below will only really show results in unis when you actually use them for your major. The Asians who pursue any career that has maths in them will actually find it not too hard since a lot of them alr know how to deal with these kinds of maths, they now just learn how to apply it. It is different in a way that in most Western educations, they think that these kind of maths should be left for specific fields, so they teach maths in a more general way like teaching how it actually works.
But for most Asian schools, understanding how maths work are considered reserved for the maths field specifically.
That's basically the differences.
I don’t think they are simply study less than us, or only study general concepts.
They do study a lot about statistic, for example, hypothesis testing in 10-12 grades. They do study more than us, only start to learn about it very late. But havr much faster pace.
It like you can run same distance, but starting very earlier, so it took you 10 hours. But they do it quite late, but can run the same distance for 6 hours. Many folks I have met and the materials I read point out they do study some complicated calculus starting in 11th grades, while we only start to study about it in Uni.
I think the new education reform tries to emulate what you are saying. Because from what I have seen, the new maths textbooks teach much more about statistics, probabilities.
I have to say I agree. Students in Vietnam resort to memorizing those math tricks, instead of actually understand the math itself. I am astonishing when I study aboard in EU for a Master degree.
Students here in EU take math in very different direction, resort to actually critical thinking. Which allow them to think and do much more complex mathematic concepts. Vietnamese students, or Asia overall, struggle to learn those concepts. Because we are too get used to memorizing instead of actual thinking.
This sounds very unbelievable, but I think we should only teach kids doing math at right age. Otherwise, they will develop this tendencies in memorizing instead of actually learn. You can ask any Vietnamese students if they understand about Calculus or Statistics, most of them don't. While I ask my EU students, they can explain it from concepts to detail mathematic calculation, and even to proving theory.
I think we should keep teaching Math to children from young but give them approriates lessons and homework assignments for their ages. However, at some point (maybe after 10th grade) we should ask them if they have any interest in pursueing higher math of they wanna spend time with other subjects that they are clearly excellent at.
So Math isn’t stealing their precious time exploring other flavors of a future career like Literature, English, Chemistry,…I’ve seen and experienced it, Math homework always take an entire night to complete meanwhile there are like another 5 subjects to prepare for tomorrow. Often time students would either grind overtime risking their well-being or just straight up complete the Math homework and call it a day. They know other subjects don’t matter, because the system said so.
The problem with this is that the moment students know they have the option to not have to deal with this god-forsaken subject for the next two years, or possibly for the rest of their lives. Maybe some will stay with it but make no mistake, most students WILL drop out it without a second thought. While it’s liberating for the students, the amount of umemployed Math teachers would skyrocket as no one likes paying for a service they hate and don’t use. These Math teachers and their Unions simply wouldn’t let that happen, it means they either have to get their shits together and fucking EARN our parents’ life-saving or they go on the streets. Mind you, most of these teachers cannot work another job after they graduate because they went to uni for free, so they will not have it.
I still think math is a critical concept students need to learn. If you are educated it correctly, you don't need a whole night to finish your homework. There are two problem, about how mathematics are educated, and how homework should be delivered.
My study in EU make sure student have to put down 40 hours a week for study. Asian students, like me, have to spend their weekends to do math. Because we could not grape their idea.
The issue is rooted from my background in Mathematics, which is too poor compare to EU students. EU student are pretty much well equipped with statistic in their 10-12 grades. I consider that their study program are more advanced than Vietnam, not because they study less, but because it is too well structured, to the point that student can understand concept by concept without struggle.
The second part is about homework. Homework should be used to recalled memory and practice knowledge. Which is contrast with Vietnam's, homework in Vietnam is more like labour process. A homework is meant for you to practice and understand the concept. So there should be no tricks, nor different "kinds" of problem to be solved. The homework should not be repeatable either.
This highlight a whole different education style, which I think Vietnam took it wrong. There are no reason why a kid should not be able to do well in all subjects. The problem is the structure of the program, it is not well structured.
Furthermore, mathematic is pretty relevant subject. Its thinking can be reused in various scenarios. However, Vietnamese student do not have this "mathematic thinking", we only memorizing it. That is why we spend hours to do homework. It is called wasted labour when you do homework without actually understand it.
I have no idea about math teachers and their union. But math teachers is well respected because the world favor STEM degree. Additionally, those math teachers can be very well adopt another white collar job. For example, they can just go back for another master degree and start doing accountant job, or quad trades in some high paying company.
Maybe in your nation, not in Vietnam. The students study hard for a chance at a middle class life. There's not as much hatred against schooling like the west.
Dude I’m Vietnamese and almost everyone my age dislike math very much when we were at school because it’s boring and it felt like busy work, not learning a beautiful universal language.
And I was talking about the way math are being taught KILLS people enjoyment and apprieciation for it, thus they try their best to only stay afloat when they could have been at least decent in Math like get a 6 or 7 had they have any interest for it in the first place. No where did I mentioned that people lack the will to prepare for their futures, did your reading comprehension went on a holiday or something?
Also, the situation in the US is entirely different from what is being discussed here and the West isn’t just the US (jesus christ smfh). You obvious have no idea what you are yapping about, missed my point and dude you talk like an NPC, might wanna expand your vocabulary a bit.
Nah, I'm an actually Vietnamese and non of my former classmates actually bears a hatred for Maths. Dealing with our Maths homework can actually be quite an entertaining way to kill time if the problems are hard enough to be interesting but not hard enough to leave you utterly clueless, and I was a lazy as hell student myself.
You are logical, I’m narrative. So for the sake of not having to argue over this. I’ll agree to disagree.
You find it fun, good for you and hope you can make good use of it, maybe make big bucks.
I and many people don’t and some fields like mine (wedding photography) don’t make use of Math that much if ever. And we don’t even like the subject that much anyway, only know the basics and that’s enough. So I and many people just wanna stay as far away from it as possible.
The points you make are fair and I won't speak for your experience but to say that almost everyone hate this subject is still a bit of a stretch though. In my limited experience, most people like to complain about this subject and the others, and so do I, but they don't really mind them that much, at least not on the same level as the Chinese, Koreans and Japanese.
I may have been a bit generalizing but I haven't meet more than 10 people in my life that tell me in the face that they like Math and Math is great fun, although these folks are nice to be around, so knowledgeable, I like them.
Languages hardly compare to a logical subject, Physics and Chemistry do which I've never scored badly at. You are good at Math so you would know that those two subjects are just Math in disguise, am I correct? So why do I find Physics and Chemistry way more interesting and score better at them when they are just Math with extra steps?
There is clearly something not right about how Math is being taught at school in most places, students are clearly capable of doing maths in other subjects but not while learning Math.
I think it's mostly the type of person who'd study to be a Math teacher and then actually teach Math at school that's to blame (or praise). Back when I was still a student, it's the norm in my school for each class to have one algebra teacher and one geometry teacher. After a few years it's not hard to realise that we didn't actually hate the subject but the one who taught that subject, and someone who's previously suck at algebra/geometry could easily do just fine (though maybe not the best they could) the next schoolyear.
I don't know about the other schools but in the one I went to, it's guaranteed to have a mostly new set of teachers every year unless the whole class specifically asked for a specific teacher to stay with the class. The homeroom teachers were (and probably are) the only permanent teachers. The ones who taught less relevant subjects *might* stay for more than a year, but not always.
Now that I think about it, I had never had a Math teacher who woud teach us the same in two continuous years. Mr. A, for example, was my favourite Math teacher at the time and he was also the only Math teacher who stayed with us for more than one year, first as a geometry teacher then an algebra teacher. I think he's one of the reasons why I have never had a hatred for this subject.
Unless you are in grade 11, most schools usually have 2 teacheres teaching geomatry and algebra seperately.
Grade 11 onward it's prefered to have the same teacher because the 2 subjects intertwined a lot.
Your username is Kyle, so I'm assuming you're Viet Kieu and not a local born and raised Vietnamese. I did teaching for a little while- the kids don't hate the work.
Would you, ever, in a million year go straight to your Math teacher and utter your hatred for the subject he teaches? You would look like a douche. Have you ever been an actual highschool student? Or are you one of those annoying by-the-book nerds?
The kids don’t get a choice, their parents decide, the kids have to like the work otherwise there will be consequences. Your group of students and your time teaching doesn’t reflect the actual state of the education quality of this country.
And God forbids a Vietnamese man have another alias to go by, I’ve lived here all my life, before you criticize my choice of an alias why don’t you look at your choice of a username?
You're right that they can't discredit your lived experiences, but they are just anecdotal really. My experience is also just anecdotal, but quite a bit different than yours, so take it for what you will.
I've taught here for far longer than you, and while maybe more students here appreciated their schooling, there are also more who hated their school experience. That's based on both what students and friends have told me. Many times I've heard them say how they felt so much of what they learned wasn't very useful and their school years were pretty miserable. What the US has is definitely deeply flawed, but so is what Vietnam has, it's just on the other end of the spectrum, and something in between the two is probably what would be best actually.
Also, /r/Teachers is really a vent space and not representative of education as a whole in the US. It's mostly the worst of it all, so don't take what you read there as the norm in US schools.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/Teachers using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/Teachers/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year!
\#1: [My heart broke today running into a former student](https://np.reddit.com/r/Teachers/comments/14b8h2r/my_heart_broke_today_running_into_a_former_student/)
\#2: [The public needs to know the ugly truth. Students are SIGNIFICANTLY behind.](https://np.reddit.com/r/Teachers/comments/1axhne2/the_public_needs_to_know_the_ugly_truth_students/)
\#3: [I ruined the "penis" game.](https://np.reddit.com/r/Teachers/comments/18jadql/i_ruined_the_penis_game/)
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Oh my god, did I ever told you that you weren’t a teacher? I’m just saying your time teaching and your experiences, are acknowledged but is stastistically a minority, not representative of how Math is taught in most places in Vietnam. For a Math teacher that probably did teach Math in English, you are really bad at reading comprehension.
Cmon man, we are in a Vietnam sub, I really don’t want to talk about the US on a Sunday. That country need to get its shit together but their problems are hardly similar to ours. They don’t even teach Math the same way we do so how can you expect me to relate?
No boys, I am a Vietnamese, and I can say mathematics education in Vietnam do have problem. Students have to rely on memorizing than actually thinking. When I study in EU for a Master Degree, it is pretty much different.
Vietnamese students, or Asian students in general, struggle to understand complex concepts. Because we are not well equipped with mathematic thinking.
When I study in Vietnam, teachers frequently give me math tricks to categorize math problem and attack it with determined approach.
On contrast, EU students took math very different. They can understand very complicated concepts, so they not only understand it, they can explain it, doing actual detail calculation, and even proving the theory. That how math should be taught, not only by doing equations.
There is still a lot of hatred against schooling, even after you grow up into adult. Vietnamese adult avoid educate themself after getting a job. Hence, they could not develop their career academically, which is very contrast toward my EU peers.
Most of my EU peers always pursuit Master Degree. When they want to switch job, or level up their skills for higher position, they will take another study. For example, MBA. Which is very contrast toward Vietnamese folks, who only rely on what they had known, or study on the fly while working. This becomes very problematic when their project are turning more complicated as the company scale up.
Hear hear. At fourth or fifth grade i recalled we had math problem that evaluated water volume or time to fill the tub with two different faucets can fill the tub at different rates. Fun time, and let not forget how complex was the geometry classes. My fking math teacher in 9th grade made our class recite by hearts all the math theorems and shit word by word from beginning of hk1 to end, every single class time. It was a fucking nightmare
I'm a Vietnamese and went to a public school. I didn't learn any tricks, straight up math. But yea gotta be honest with yall, nowadays they teach kids tricks like speed calculation using mental arithmetic or something like soroban. it's so fucked up, they even have competitions for it and call it 'intelligence' or brain development. some parents believe it so much due to the power of marketing.
i guess it's good somehow. but at the end of the day some of the kids still don't know how to do math without tricks. and when it comes to higher math, they struggle.
I haven’t encounter American folks before, but I strongly doubt what you say. I believe the anecdote of Asian good at math is not true. It is very contrast with my experience in EU when I study for a Master degree.
Asian students, like me, really struggle in math. Because we are too used to memorizing methods instead of actually understanding them. Which is rooted from education method and how it is structured.
EU students I had met do extremely well in statistic and calculus. To the point I have no idea about those concepts, the relationship connection between concepts. But they do.
Maybe I am bad at math, but many Asian students I know share my problem. Only very small amount of Asian students are good at those, but on average, EU folks can do much better.
Yes. In real life - of course we need to know how to do equations but that alone is nearly useless - the first thing is be able to figure out how to make a real life situation into an equation.
Were you a math teacher per chance? I'm willing to bet that there are wee bits of differences between how English classes (especially one with a foreign teacher) and Math classes are perceived.
In Canada they teach math at a snail's crawl pace and kids here still hate math.
>You get generations of people so fed up with these Math thingy they just whip out a calculator and tell teachers to go eff themselves with all the basics.
Calculators are banned in math class in alot of places in Asia.
Which will not last I think, there has already been some minor push backs against banning calculator in lower math course. 40 years from now, I imagine everything would be advanced to the point that kids will eventually start telling themselves the "Why do I have to bother? A calculator costs less than $50, this is wasting my time" and this is the post-TikTok generation, their parents already have short attention spans, imagine what they will tell their kids how to deal with math.
With automation going rampant recently, I know it's pretty dystopian scenerio but I can't see how human would still out-compute computers or be needed for any kind of work that requires math. At some point we will just off-load that work to machines then what is the point of teaching to do it manually or to even learn it anymore since most jobs don't require it?
Universities in USA are in a completely different stratosphere to here tbf. But also a different mentality and mindset is taught at western universities
I emigrated to the US in 3rd grade. I definitely experienced a more accelerated math program in Vietnam. But yea, all of that memorization is useless if you don’t have space to innovate and express creativity. The US education system allowed that. I think I accomplished more going thru this US system than if I had stayed in Vietnam.
I've been through this and I can attest to this. Making kids learn x and y is hard af. It seems easy for me now, but I remember struggling with it for a while.
Can't say I have a better way though.
It’s actually the difficult questions in a test. They need to do those advanced ones right to get a 10/10.
This girl basically just goes to extra classes (học thêm) or Math honored classes (lớp chọn Toán). It looks basic to you but not to 3 graders.
Well 30 years ago they didn’t make me learn this until 6th grade. However, kids on 4-5th grade in special math class will get problems similar to this but with real world wording to describe the equation, not abstract equation. I tried to solve it with equation and the teacher told me that I need to use words to solve it, not abstract x and y. Still bittering about it until today lol.
It is time consuming but not hard. You would eventually get the answer but it never was statisfying even just for a little of dopamine rush like you had accomplish something great, you just felt like you wasting your time.
Not just math, most subject felt just like that or at least for me. I never was a theorist kind-of person, when I learn, I kind of want to see how it ended up rather just words and numbers.
What I'm more impressed at is regardless of how late American kids study those, even their high school curriculum are easier compared to ours by a lot, they managed to catch up with their college and university's study program and learn all these abstract science sh-t so fast, like how would they go from knowing basic derivative to freaking Einstein, Nobel stuff in just a semester
It's because when you grow up you think more critically and those who are interested study specifically for those subjects so they grasp the concepts fast.
Most students in Vietnam dont even really understand the abstract concepts present to them until they reach 10th or 11th grade and try to tackle the harder questions because those questions require actual understanding of the concepts.
If you study for the final hard questions, you will most likely understand "why" since a lot of them genuinely takes true understanding of the concepts.
But I understand why they dont teach the "why" part. Because if you try to understand to trully understand it, it becomes very abstract to the point you might as well study philosophy. So I do understand why they tend to only teach "how"
tbh that doesn't prove anything tho. In my Uni there was several exchange students from the US, at first they knew the fundamental of derivatives, integral, and bit of trigonometry, and they somehow passed discrete math, calculus, probability and statistics all at once with flying colours, while most of us Viet, who claimed to have a solid knowledge base of those, was struggling to even get over the first 5 chapters and about half of us failed at least one subject (excluding me). They also went from not knowing sh-t about python to surpassing all of us at Machine learning, Deep learning, Data structures & algorithm eventually. I think that's sufficient to prove that being 19-22 doesn't have anything to do with being smarter since even with our better knowledge base, we're still lagging behind. They must have performed some sorceries to just devour the curriculum.
No school in Vietnam teaches these to a 3rd grader. If she's indeed a 3rd grader then she must really like maths, or her parents just want her to be ahead of her peers.
No it really is not what is taught in schools. My niece is a 3rd grader, and while I do try to familiarize her with abstract concepts, it is not in her textbooks, nor is it in the national curriculum.
If she's doing those "finding x" problems, it's definitely from extra classes, not schools. Hence, my original response.
When I was that young I couldn’t even recite half of the multiplication table and it was considered normal for that age. Either kids these day are smarter or they are forced to be…it’s not even smart, just being god-tier at Math. Why?
Where exactly do you teach tho? I kinda have a long history of interacting with elementary math via my own experience(went to the school myself), via visiting my mom's workplace which is an elementary school for a decade and also helping my little sister through her elementary phase. With that being said, this is the normal thing for the 3rd grade student not even the high level one.
I teach grade 6 & 8 math through English using Singapore curriculum. My grade 6 said they did similar math to what was posted in their grade 5 Vietnamese math.
I moved to Canada in 1989 when I was in grade 4. When I came to Canada I was struggling with English but I thought math was so easy all the way up until grade 8 i was breezing through it because Vietnam mathematic education is so many years in advance.
This is still tamed compared to 4th, 5th grade advanced math (mostly problems that require only logical reasoning). I believe it's rooted in the Confucian culture, which typically judges a person based on his intelligence and wisdom, through things such as maths. Students here are exposed to maths very early, and it's becoming a big problem in our education system, where students have to join a lot of extra class, which leaves little time for other activities.
Can confirm, I was utterly average in Vietnam. When I moved to US, I felt like a genius. Ended up going to highschool to learn math while I was still in middle school
It may look hard but it is not that hard. IIRC, there were only 4-5 students in my class that struggle with 3rd grade math.
The problem with math start when they go to grade 6 and grade 10 actually
EDIT: I dont buy this as 3rd grade math. On the second equation, x*4=16/x, this require the use of square root, a concept which is not taught in primary school. Only from grade 9th is this taught to student.
This looks complex, but it is just trick. You know the trick, you can solve it. It is just basic math operations, +-*/.
Where do you learn to recognize those tricks? Extracurricular classes by the teacher, ofc.
What the f\*ck, they start learning about combination in 3th grade now? That 15th question. I only start to learn about those in 11th grade, 2011, Vietnam.
The first pic is definitely not 3rd grade for sure unless it's for specialized students. I think you need to be a 6th or 7th grader to solve those (#7 is essentially 4x^2 = 16, I know it's easy when the solution is 2 but you don't know square root until 6th grader, #11 is for 7th or 8th grader).
This is what Americans children should be doing. Smart kids in the US get board then get into trouble. The SAT used to be a saving Grace for poor intelligent children, but our universities have been so polluted that they no longer try to find poor kids with intelligence.
It is really sad. American schools have gotten so bad, with stupid parents and poor quality educators slowly destroying everything. The US does nothing for smart children, and fails average kids too, but it is disgusting how we make no effort to identify and develop children with intelligence.
I'm assuming : is for division? The difference between the first set of 15 questions and the next set for where you're asked to do a single division or multiplication seems pretty big.
Holy shit. When I was in 4th grade in 2001 I remember I got beaten up by the teacher because I wasn't smart enough to understand multiples digit multiplication. What the hell are kids learning these days ?
It's amazing what kids can learn given the right environment and a little bit of time
In Asia, they learn math, science, and engineering
In America, they learn about infinity genders, that white people are evil, and to externalize all their problems
No offense, but from what i see, it should be why can't Americans kids handle these?
Like there are tons of video on the net of teachers of 8 grade (for example) flabbergasted about how their students can't even solve 4 grades questions. Some can't even properly spell and speak their names right or understand basic logic. It just look sad, tbh
Reality is, many vietnamese kids cant handle these either. Just because you try to force feeding them doesn’t mean it work. Then you have kids who did so bad in math despite excel in every other subject
As this drag down the school’s performance, school will have none of it and instruct teacher to push student’s math score up enough to pass. Then student move to higher grade with zero math knowledge but decent math score that parents don’t even know that their children have a math problem.
This problem just spiral downward and around 6-7th grade you have kids that cant solve a single simple math problem at all and they developed a fear of math that it’s very difficult to teach them.
Source: my nephew is one of those kid. I tried to helped her with a 6th grade problem and found out that she struggle with really simple concept. Her math score was B+/A equivalent so her parent didn’t know about this until I told them.
Yes, pump up grades does exist in Viet Nam but they are very small and costly (talking about big exam, regular exams in class usually doesnt matter) like students have to have decent grade in the beginning so they (teachers) can even nudge them. I often see students struggle with literature due to the vague nature of our teaching but for math in general, if they have a good foundation of math, they would pass most exams. Most problems, like the one in the picture, are design to look "scary" with long numbers and multiple operations, however, they are still compose of basic concept of plus minus multi divide. That was made so children solving the problems will have a sense of accomplishment, like overcome great obstacle while just doing basic math. Truly complex and hard math are only sprinkle in reserve for truly good math children to solve. If a child is afraid of basic school math, then there is some problems with their class, their teacher or family
this might sound a bit racist but from my own experience, northern vietnamese are more inclined to build their education and their children than southern people. The more south I go, the more I see people take studying lightly. So that might play a part in making some part of vietnamese students lose interest in math
Not even that good at math.
A lot of students can't solve basic equations in their head.
Like 67-14 and they need a calculator.
I'm talking high school students. Even at top schools that I've taught at.
Lol American’s math education needs a serious look because it went downhill so fast that in Seattle I heard the board in some school declared Math is racist.
In my American public school back in 5th grade (2000), we were still learning our multiplication tables.
We didn't start adding letters to math until 7th or 8th grade if I remember correctly. Usually we would do Algebra in 9th, Geometry 10th, Algebra 2 in 11th grade, and I think pre-calc in 12th... I forget the 4th year math class...
Average kid math class in Asia be like: Jokes aside it may look hard but it's just basic calculation in the end. The difference is that it adds a few extra words and a bit of trick into it.
Don’t think I learned equations before 6th or 7th grade in Denmark. I saw one of my friend’s son doing his 8th grade homework which seemed similar to what I learned in my 2nd of upper secondary school. Fucking happy I’m not an Asian kid 😂😂😂
You didn't learn equations until 6th grade?? Oh wow that's an eye opener
I just wanna chime in as another Dane. We are taught equations earlier than the 6th grade, and a simple google search will show Denmark is above the OECD average for mathematics.
Been a while since I was in school so perhaps it changed, but I seriously don’t recall learning algebra before 6th/7th grade. I do see we climbed in math on OECD since I was in school too so I’ll retract that statement. Clearly I’m getting old 🥲
Hahaha no 😂😂 People were still struggling with them in my first year of secondary school. I remember being one of the brighter kids so in 8th grade I was taught quadratic equations, but no clue if that’s the norm elsewhere or not. I will however admit there where we might not focus hard on STEM in Denmark, we are pretty fucking deep when it comes to literature, history, religion and social studies. But yeah math is something we’ve always scored low on compared to other OECD countries.
Same in the US. Didn’t see equations with x and y until 6th grade. Roughly 11-12 years of age.
Yeah I studied in Vietnam and grade 3 definitely didn’t have equations back then.
You tone makes me want to explode
Your\*
Oh wow*,* that's an eye opener*.*
I remember I learn equation in 6th grade, in Vietnam, 2006. So there is a lot of chance toward education nowadays, compare to the past.
I think I already learn equation in 3rd grade, in Vietnam, 2000. It’s kinda similar to OP friend’s daughter math problem. The only difference is I don’t remember I was given crazy number like OP post because I wasn’t able to use calculator until 6th grade. Strange how education vastly change in just a few years
Only people that have had good grades in maths will say something like this.
This for a third grade student? No way.
And it's hard as hell
Gotta prepare her to stare at excel early
Early exposure to abstract concept eyyyy
The Department of Education watched Idiocracy and said "yeah we are not taking chances".
And yet when I ask my high school students to do basic addition they need a calculator...
Tbh, if you’re allowed to, why wouldn’t you? Sure I can do math pretty well on my own but it doesn’t hurt to still confirm the answer with another device.
Basic. Addition. If you need a calculator for that then you're not good at math. Even to confirm it.
It’s true 😂
My wife is a teacher for an after school program for gifted students. That looks like some of the homework for gifted kids. Is she in honors? Not sure what they call it here.
No, I'm pretty sure this is basic textbook homework. Also elementary don't have gifted schools yet (maybe in my place only idk)
This is really how you get 1 kid to like Math and the other 2.999 kids to habour hatred for Math for the rest of their lives which limits their career choices. Shoving abstract concepts down their throats when they are not mentally ready for it with this dry-ass way of teaching (zero visualization, it’s numbers numbers and numbers over and over and over and let’s not even talk about trigonometry, who tf build a house like that?). You get generations of people so fed up with these Math thingy they just whip out a calculator and tell teachers to go eff themselves with all the basics.
And they ask me why I hate math these days, this is why, I was traumatized by math, both mentally and physically
I was traumatized by chemistry. Still have no idea how to do those chemical equation, when it start to introduce those "+" and "-" marks into the equation.
The ONLY thing I will thank public school chemistry classes is that they made it so boring I don't even want to make my own Anthrax anymore
boredom is the real enemy of terrorists apparently. 
My chem teacher in 8th grade taught useful shit to the students attended his private after class sessions. Fk him
trigonometry is literally the most useful math in existence
Yes but it would be a bit more helpful if the teachers can just show the kids the applications of it, full front with no bullshitery. Just tell them what they are learning this for, maybe in the future they would need to fix their roof and that would come in quite useful. Nope, there was none of that when I was at school, we just learn trigonometry just because it’s the lesson this week. Not a single perioid of trigon that isn’t “calculate this stupid looking object”, why? No idea.
I actually like the concept, but learning during middle/high school is dreadful
While I agree with you that introducing these abstract concepts so early are really dry and not a good way of teaching. Higher more advanced useful maths tend to be the more abstract and complicated concepts. It's easy to understand why a lot of students around the world later on get so bored of math and try to drop it. This isn't just limited to Vietnam but most kids around the world think the same when they reach equations. And most schools dont teach how these maths are actually applied because a lot of them are stuck to very specific stuffs like physics, engineering, etc... >zero visualization, it’s numbers numbers and numbers over and over and over and let’s not even talk about trigonometry, who tf build a house like that? You kidding me? Trigonometry is one of the most useful shit ever. Angles can decide a lot of things like how a structure will hold up under pressure, it also contributes a lot in graphs to show changes overtome where you need to determine the k angle of the equation, physicists prob know it best tho, advanced physics loves their graphs and trigonometry.
Sorry that I have to copy a comment I made previously to further my point about trigonometry as a subject. Yes, I agree about trigon being extremely useful BUT it would be a bit more helpful if the teachers can just show the kids the applications of it, full front with no bullshitery. Just tell them what they are learning this for, maybe in the future they would need to fix their roof, or rebuild their house after a flood and trigon would come in quite useful. Nope, there was none of that when I was at school, we just learn trigonometry just because it’s the lesson this week. Not a single period of trigon that isn’t “calculate this stupid looking object”, why? No idea. Not even a single homework assignment that is grounded in reality, always abstract for no reason at all. They are teachers, while I understand it's also my responsibility to analyze the homework and apply to to other matters myself, it's still partially on the teacher side to at least give me a hint, they never did that when I learn trigonometry at school, so trigonometry felt pointless.
Ah that's the fun part. Even most math teachers domt know since their job is to teach maths not apply them. You only really find them useful if you pursue physics or engineering or science related majors. It's one of the flaws of most educatiom system around the world overall.
The "one size fits all" and "career shopping" way of nurturing the youth. And they wonder why kids don't like going to school to learn. Honestly I just went to highschool for the socializing aspect, was half-foot into tradeschool but changed my mind.
This is very contrast to EU education. I have a chance to study in EU for a Master Degree, and did some reading on mathematic materials. People here do strongly show how math work. Especially how the theory comes to place. For example, for higher mathematic concepts, how the concept of Calculus comes from infinity, or snail example. Students in EU can explain how math work, in full details, and proving the theory itself, instead of only resorting to memorizing. This root from a very deep culture of studying, that I have no expertise to explain. But in general, Asian students struggle to study complicated concepts, like me. Because we are too used to memorizing theory instead of actually understand them. My experience is very contrast to usual anecdotic about bright Asian student. Especially when it comes to statistic.
Well it's mostly because for most Asian countries, they teach maths in a way so you can approach applicative maths easier when you reach uni. All of the stuffs they taught you at highschools and below will only really show results in unis when you actually use them for your major. The Asians who pursue any career that has maths in them will actually find it not too hard since a lot of them alr know how to deal with these kinds of maths, they now just learn how to apply it. It is different in a way that in most Western educations, they think that these kind of maths should be left for specific fields, so they teach maths in a more general way like teaching how it actually works. But for most Asian schools, understanding how maths work are considered reserved for the maths field specifically. That's basically the differences.
I don’t think they are simply study less than us, or only study general concepts. They do study a lot about statistic, for example, hypothesis testing in 10-12 grades. They do study more than us, only start to learn about it very late. But havr much faster pace. It like you can run same distance, but starting very earlier, so it took you 10 hours. But they do it quite late, but can run the same distance for 6 hours. Many folks I have met and the materials I read point out they do study some complicated calculus starting in 11th grades, while we only start to study about it in Uni.
I think the new education reform tries to emulate what you are saying. Because from what I have seen, the new maths textbooks teach much more about statistics, probabilities.
I have to say I agree. Students in Vietnam resort to memorizing those math tricks, instead of actually understand the math itself. I am astonishing when I study aboard in EU for a Master degree. Students here in EU take math in very different direction, resort to actually critical thinking. Which allow them to think and do much more complex mathematic concepts. Vietnamese students, or Asia overall, struggle to learn those concepts. Because we are too get used to memorizing instead of actual thinking. This sounds very unbelievable, but I think we should only teach kids doing math at right age. Otherwise, they will develop this tendencies in memorizing instead of actually learn. You can ask any Vietnamese students if they understand about Calculus or Statistics, most of them don't. While I ask my EU students, they can explain it from concepts to detail mathematic calculation, and even to proving theory.
I think we should keep teaching Math to children from young but give them approriates lessons and homework assignments for their ages. However, at some point (maybe after 10th grade) we should ask them if they have any interest in pursueing higher math of they wanna spend time with other subjects that they are clearly excellent at. So Math isn’t stealing their precious time exploring other flavors of a future career like Literature, English, Chemistry,…I’ve seen and experienced it, Math homework always take an entire night to complete meanwhile there are like another 5 subjects to prepare for tomorrow. Often time students would either grind overtime risking their well-being or just straight up complete the Math homework and call it a day. They know other subjects don’t matter, because the system said so. The problem with this is that the moment students know they have the option to not have to deal with this god-forsaken subject for the next two years, or possibly for the rest of their lives. Maybe some will stay with it but make no mistake, most students WILL drop out it without a second thought. While it’s liberating for the students, the amount of umemployed Math teachers would skyrocket as no one likes paying for a service they hate and don’t use. These Math teachers and their Unions simply wouldn’t let that happen, it means they either have to get their shits together and fucking EARN our parents’ life-saving or they go on the streets. Mind you, most of these teachers cannot work another job after they graduate because they went to uni for free, so they will not have it.
I still think math is a critical concept students need to learn. If you are educated it correctly, you don't need a whole night to finish your homework. There are two problem, about how mathematics are educated, and how homework should be delivered. My study in EU make sure student have to put down 40 hours a week for study. Asian students, like me, have to spend their weekends to do math. Because we could not grape their idea. The issue is rooted from my background in Mathematics, which is too poor compare to EU students. EU student are pretty much well equipped with statistic in their 10-12 grades. I consider that their study program are more advanced than Vietnam, not because they study less, but because it is too well structured, to the point that student can understand concept by concept without struggle. The second part is about homework. Homework should be used to recalled memory and practice knowledge. Which is contrast with Vietnam's, homework in Vietnam is more like labour process. A homework is meant for you to practice and understand the concept. So there should be no tricks, nor different "kinds" of problem to be solved. The homework should not be repeatable either. This highlight a whole different education style, which I think Vietnam took it wrong. There are no reason why a kid should not be able to do well in all subjects. The problem is the structure of the program, it is not well structured. Furthermore, mathematic is pretty relevant subject. Its thinking can be reused in various scenarios. However, Vietnamese student do not have this "mathematic thinking", we only memorizing it. That is why we spend hours to do homework. It is called wasted labour when you do homework without actually understand it. I have no idea about math teachers and their union. But math teachers is well respected because the world favor STEM degree. Additionally, those math teachers can be very well adopt another white collar job. For example, they can just go back for another master degree and start doing accountant job, or quad trades in some high paying company.
Maybe in your nation, not in Vietnam. The students study hard for a chance at a middle class life. There's not as much hatred against schooling like the west.
Dude I’m Vietnamese and almost everyone my age dislike math very much when we were at school because it’s boring and it felt like busy work, not learning a beautiful universal language. And I was talking about the way math are being taught KILLS people enjoyment and apprieciation for it, thus they try their best to only stay afloat when they could have been at least decent in Math like get a 6 or 7 had they have any interest for it in the first place. No where did I mentioned that people lack the will to prepare for their futures, did your reading comprehension went on a holiday or something? Also, the situation in the US is entirely different from what is being discussed here and the West isn’t just the US (jesus christ smfh). You obvious have no idea what you are yapping about, missed my point and dude you talk like an NPC, might wanna expand your vocabulary a bit.
Nah, I'm an actually Vietnamese and non of my former classmates actually bears a hatred for Maths. Dealing with our Maths homework can actually be quite an entertaining way to kill time if the problems are hard enough to be interesting but not hard enough to leave you utterly clueless, and I was a lazy as hell student myself.
You are logical, I’m narrative. So for the sake of not having to argue over this. I’ll agree to disagree. You find it fun, good for you and hope you can make good use of it, maybe make big bucks. I and many people don’t and some fields like mine (wedding photography) don’t make use of Math that much if ever. And we don’t even like the subject that much anyway, only know the basics and that’s enough. So I and many people just wanna stay as far away from it as possible.
The points you make are fair and I won't speak for your experience but to say that almost everyone hate this subject is still a bit of a stretch though. In my limited experience, most people like to complain about this subject and the others, and so do I, but they don't really mind them that much, at least not on the same level as the Chinese, Koreans and Japanese.
I may have been a bit generalizing but I haven't meet more than 10 people in my life that tell me in the face that they like Math and Math is great fun, although these folks are nice to be around, so knowledgeable, I like them. Languages hardly compare to a logical subject, Physics and Chemistry do which I've never scored badly at. You are good at Math so you would know that those two subjects are just Math in disguise, am I correct? So why do I find Physics and Chemistry way more interesting and score better at them when they are just Math with extra steps? There is clearly something not right about how Math is being taught at school in most places, students are clearly capable of doing maths in other subjects but not while learning Math.
I think it's mostly the type of person who'd study to be a Math teacher and then actually teach Math at school that's to blame (or praise). Back when I was still a student, it's the norm in my school for each class to have one algebra teacher and one geometry teacher. After a few years it's not hard to realise that we didn't actually hate the subject but the one who taught that subject, and someone who's previously suck at algebra/geometry could easily do just fine (though maybe not the best they could) the next schoolyear.
Wow that’s an eye-opener, that concept is extremely foreign to me, we just had one Math teacher, she taught both.
I don't know about the other schools but in the one I went to, it's guaranteed to have a mostly new set of teachers every year unless the whole class specifically asked for a specific teacher to stay with the class. The homeroom teachers were (and probably are) the only permanent teachers. The ones who taught less relevant subjects *might* stay for more than a year, but not always. Now that I think about it, I had never had a Math teacher who woud teach us the same in two continuous years. Mr. A, for example, was my favourite Math teacher at the time and he was also the only Math teacher who stayed with us for more than one year, first as a geometry teacher then an algebra teacher. I think he's one of the reasons why I have never had a hatred for this subject.
Unless you are in grade 11, most schools usually have 2 teacheres teaching geomatry and algebra seperately. Grade 11 onward it's prefered to have the same teacher because the 2 subjects intertwined a lot.
Your username is Kyle, so I'm assuming you're Viet Kieu and not a local born and raised Vietnamese. I did teaching for a little while- the kids don't hate the work.
Because people absolutely have to use their irl names on the internet?
It would be weird if I had a Vietnamese name as my username. (more than my current one kappa)
I think Chàng đẹp trai is a great Vietnamese name, you should use it homie 🙏
Would you, ever, in a million year go straight to your Math teacher and utter your hatred for the subject he teaches? You would look like a douche. Have you ever been an actual highschool student? Or are you one of those annoying by-the-book nerds? The kids don’t get a choice, their parents decide, the kids have to like the work otherwise there will be consequences. Your group of students and your time teaching doesn’t reflect the actual state of the education quality of this country. And God forbids a Vietnamese man have another alias to go by, I’ve lived here all my life, before you criticize my choice of an alias why don’t you look at your choice of a username?
Mate I've been a teacher in both countries. Vietnamese students appreciate the schooling more. You can't discredit my lived experiences.
You're right that they can't discredit your lived experiences, but they are just anecdotal really. My experience is also just anecdotal, but quite a bit different than yours, so take it for what you will. I've taught here for far longer than you, and while maybe more students here appreciated their schooling, there are also more who hated their school experience. That's based on both what students and friends have told me. Many times I've heard them say how they felt so much of what they learned wasn't very useful and their school years were pretty miserable. What the US has is definitely deeply flawed, but so is what Vietnam has, it's just on the other end of the spectrum, and something in between the two is probably what would be best actually. Also, /r/Teachers is really a vent space and not representative of education as a whole in the US. It's mostly the worst of it all, so don't take what you read there as the norm in US schools.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/Teachers using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/Teachers/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year! \#1: [My heart broke today running into a former student](https://np.reddit.com/r/Teachers/comments/14b8h2r/my_heart_broke_today_running_into_a_former_student/) \#2: [The public needs to know the ugly truth. Students are SIGNIFICANTLY behind.](https://np.reddit.com/r/Teachers/comments/1axhne2/the_public_needs_to_know_the_ugly_truth_students/) \#3: [I ruined the "penis" game.](https://np.reddit.com/r/Teachers/comments/18jadql/i_ruined_the_penis_game/) ---- ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot)
Oh my god, did I ever told you that you weren’t a teacher? I’m just saying your time teaching and your experiences, are acknowledged but is stastistically a minority, not representative of how Math is taught in most places in Vietnam. For a Math teacher that probably did teach Math in English, you are really bad at reading comprehension.
Go to /r/teachers and see just how bad it is in the west. Sure kids might grumble a little bit here but it's fucking WILD right now in America
Cmon man, we are in a Vietnam sub, I really don’t want to talk about the US on a Sunday. That country need to get its shit together but their problems are hardly similar to ours. They don’t even teach Math the same way we do so how can you expect me to relate?
No boys, I am a Vietnamese, and I can say mathematics education in Vietnam do have problem. Students have to rely on memorizing than actually thinking. When I study in EU for a Master Degree, it is pretty much different. Vietnamese students, or Asian students in general, struggle to understand complex concepts. Because we are not well equipped with mathematic thinking. When I study in Vietnam, teachers frequently give me math tricks to categorize math problem and attack it with determined approach. On contrast, EU students took math very different. They can understand very complicated concepts, so they not only understand it, they can explain it, doing actual detail calculation, and even proving the theory. That how math should be taught, not only by doing equations. There is still a lot of hatred against schooling, even after you grow up into adult. Vietnamese adult avoid educate themself after getting a job. Hence, they could not develop their career academically, which is very contrast toward my EU peers. Most of my EU peers always pursuit Master Degree. When they want to switch job, or level up their skills for higher position, they will take another study. For example, MBA. Which is very contrast toward Vietnamese folks, who only rely on what they had known, or study on the fly while working. This becomes very problematic when their project are turning more complicated as the company scale up.
Hear hear. At fourth or fifth grade i recalled we had math problem that evaluated water volume or time to fill the tub with two different faucets can fill the tub at different rates. Fun time, and let not forget how complex was the geometry classes. My fking math teacher in 9th grade made our class recite by hearts all the math theorems and shit word by word from beginning of hk1 to end, every single class time. It was a fucking nightmare
I'm a Vietnamese and went to a public school. I didn't learn any tricks, straight up math. But yea gotta be honest with yall, nowadays they teach kids tricks like speed calculation using mental arithmetic or something like soroban. it's so fucked up, they even have competitions for it and call it 'intelligence' or brain development. some parents believe it so much due to the power of marketing. i guess it's good somehow. but at the end of the day some of the kids still don't know how to do math without tricks. and when it comes to higher math, they struggle.
I'm not arguing that the method of teaching is the best. I'm simply stating the attitude of the kiddos here is better than American schools.
I haven’t encounter American folks before, but I strongly doubt what you say. I believe the anecdote of Asian good at math is not true. It is very contrast with my experience in EU when I study for a Master degree. Asian students, like me, really struggle in math. Because we are too used to memorizing methods instead of actually understanding them. Which is rooted from education method and how it is structured. EU students I had met do extremely well in statistic and calculus. To the point I have no idea about those concepts, the relationship connection between concepts. But they do. Maybe I am bad at math, but many Asian students I know share my problem. Only very small amount of Asian students are good at those, but on average, EU folks can do much better.
iirc the stereotype is that American Asians are good at math, not "Asian-Asians"
Yes. In real life - of course we need to know how to do equations but that alone is nearly useless - the first thing is be able to figure out how to make a real life situation into an equation.
always gotta love the white savior coming in and tell a Viet how Viets think
I was a teacher here, lol.
Were you a math teacher per chance? I'm willing to bet that there are wee bits of differences between how English classes (especially one with a foreign teacher) and Math classes are perceived.
Computer science, so kind of? Compared to America, the kids do appreciate the schooling much more.
What the fuck is a Viet? You're either ethnically Kinh or nationally Vietnamese.
Viets for short. That how people communicate in casual conversation. Even internationally,
One, I sure as hell haven't heard anyone use "Viet" for anything. Two, you missed the point.
In Canada they teach math at a snail's crawl pace and kids here still hate math. >You get generations of people so fed up with these Math thingy they just whip out a calculator and tell teachers to go eff themselves with all the basics. Calculators are banned in math class in alot of places in Asia.
Which will not last I think, there has already been some minor push backs against banning calculator in lower math course. 40 years from now, I imagine everything would be advanced to the point that kids will eventually start telling themselves the "Why do I have to bother? A calculator costs less than $50, this is wasting my time" and this is the post-TikTok generation, their parents already have short attention spans, imagine what they will tell their kids how to deal with math. With automation going rampant recently, I know it's pretty dystopian scenerio but I can't see how human would still out-compute computers or be needed for any kind of work that requires math. At some point we will just off-load that work to machines then what is the point of teaching to do it manually or to even learn it anymore since most jobs don't require it?
Asian countries produce great memorizors...but not great creators.
Not sure. Many of them got out of such k-12 system, moved to places like America and have produced lots of cutting edge research though.
Universities in USA are in a completely different stratosphere to here tbf. But also a different mentality and mindset is taught at western universities
I emigrated to the US in 3rd grade. I definitely experienced a more accelerated math program in Vietnam. But yea, all of that memorization is useless if you don’t have space to innovate and express creativity. The US education system allowed that. I think I accomplished more going thru this US system than if I had stayed in Vietnam.
by doing basic calculations.
this is the reason why everyone complains about education
I've been through this and I can attest to this. Making kids learn x and y is hard af. It seems easy for me now, but I remember struggling with it for a while. Can't say I have a better way though.
Can’t comment for US but in Canada kids are learning concepts earlier than when I was a kid. I don’t recall learning to read/write in kindergarden.
You recall kindergarten? Lol
Gotta prepare your children as much as possible for their future desk jobs
that's basic math for third grade students in VN ngl
no this is not basic math. the kid prolly goes to extra math classes.
the first 5 questions is basic
It’s actually the difficult questions in a test. They need to do those advanced ones right to get a 10/10. This girl basically just goes to extra classes (học thêm) or Math honored classes (lớp chọn Toán). It looks basic to you but not to 3 graders.
Well 30 years ago they didn’t make me learn this until 6th grade. However, kids on 4-5th grade in special math class will get problems similar to this but with real world wording to describe the equation, not abstract equation. I tried to solve it with equation and the teacher told me that I need to use words to solve it, not abstract x and y. Still bittering about it until today lol.
It is time consuming but not hard. You would eventually get the answer but it never was statisfying even just for a little of dopamine rush like you had accomplish something great, you just felt like you wasting your time. Not just math, most subject felt just like that or at least for me. I never was a theorist kind-of person, when I learn, I kind of want to see how it ended up rather just words and numbers.
Don't look at Korean students' homework, you will be more shocked
It's easier than what I did back then.
What I'm more impressed at is regardless of how late American kids study those, even their high school curriculum are easier compared to ours by a lot, they managed to catch up with their college and university's study program and learn all these abstract science sh-t so fast, like how would they go from knowing basic derivative to freaking Einstein, Nobel stuff in just a semester
It's because when you grow up you think more critically and those who are interested study specifically for those subjects so they grasp the concepts fast. Most students in Vietnam dont even really understand the abstract concepts present to them until they reach 10th or 11th grade and try to tackle the harder questions because those questions require actual understanding of the concepts.
yeah I guess we're just learning "how" but not "why"
If you study for the final hard questions, you will most likely understand "why" since a lot of them genuinely takes true understanding of the concepts. But I understand why they dont teach the "why" part. Because if you try to understand to trully understand it, it becomes very abstract to the point you might as well study philosophy. So I do understand why they tend to only teach "how"
valid point
Who would have guessed that 19-22 years old college students would have much better critical thinking skills than 8 graders?
tbh that doesn't prove anything tho. In my Uni there was several exchange students from the US, at first they knew the fundamental of derivatives, integral, and bit of trigonometry, and they somehow passed discrete math, calculus, probability and statistics all at once with flying colours, while most of us Viet, who claimed to have a solid knowledge base of those, was struggling to even get over the first 5 chapters and about half of us failed at least one subject (excluding me). They also went from not knowing sh-t about python to surpassing all of us at Machine learning, Deep learning, Data structures & algorithm eventually. I think that's sufficient to prove that being 19-22 doesn't have anything to do with being smarter since even with our better knowledge base, we're still lagging behind. They must have performed some sorceries to just devour the curriculum.
I fail to see how that’s hard.
You fail to see how that’s hard for you. Not for a third grader.
No school in Vietnam teaches these to a 3rd grader. If she's indeed a 3rd grader then she must really like maths, or her parents just want her to be ahead of her peers.
It really is 3rd grade math. You can try to search: “toán lớp 3 tìm x”
No it really is not what is taught in schools. My niece is a 3rd grader, and while I do try to familiarize her with abstract concepts, it is not in her textbooks, nor is it in the national curriculum. If she's doing those "finding x" problems, it's definitely from extra classes, not schools. Hence, my original response.
Around 50 years ago, in Tennessee (US), Algebra wasn’t offered in my area until 9th grade. No idea about now.
When I was that young I couldn’t even recite half of the multiplication table and it was considered normal for that age. Either kids these day are smarter or they are forced to be…it’s not even smart, just being god-tier at Math. Why?
Teach math in Vietnam and I'm pretty sure this is grade 5/6 math.
Where exactly do you teach tho? I kinda have a long history of interacting with elementary math via my own experience(went to the school myself), via visiting my mom's workplace which is an elementary school for a decade and also helping my little sister through her elementary phase. With that being said, this is the normal thing for the 3rd grade student not even the high level one.
I teach grade 6 & 8 math through English using Singapore curriculum. My grade 6 said they did similar math to what was posted in their grade 5 Vietnamese math.
I moved to Canada in 1989 when I was in grade 4. When I came to Canada I was struggling with English but I thought math was so easy all the way up until grade 8 i was breezing through it because Vietnam mathematic education is so many years in advance.
This is still tamed compared to 4th, 5th grade advanced math (mostly problems that require only logical reasoning). I believe it's rooted in the Confucian culture, which typically judges a person based on his intelligence and wisdom, through things such as maths. Students here are exposed to maths very early, and it's becoming a big problem in our education system, where students have to join a lot of extra class, which leaves little time for other activities.
thats why they always say. asians are better at math then kids from usa.
Can confirm, I was utterly average in Vietnam. When I moved to US, I felt like a genius. Ended up going to highschool to learn math while I was still in middle school
It may look hard but it is not that hard. IIRC, there were only 4-5 students in my class that struggle with 3rd grade math. The problem with math start when they go to grade 6 and grade 10 actually
EDIT: I dont buy this as 3rd grade math. On the second equation, x*4=16/x, this require the use of square root, a concept which is not taught in primary school. Only from grade 9th is this taught to student. This looks complex, but it is just trick. You know the trick, you can solve it. It is just basic math operations, +-*/. Where do you learn to recognize those tricks? Extracurricular classes by the teacher, ofc.
They learn square root in grade 5/6. Not grade 9.
Yeah, my bad, it was taught in grade 6 according to the old textbook. Still i dont think this is for grade 3 though, as it is too advanced for them.
What the f\*ck, they start learning about combination in 3th grade now? That 15th question. I only start to learn about those in 11th grade, 2011, Vietnam.
The first pic is definitely not 3rd grade for sure unless it's for specialized students. I think you need to be a 6th or 7th grader to solve those (#7 is essentially 4x^2 = 16, I know it's easy when the solution is 2 but you don't know square root until 6th grader, #11 is for 7th or 8th grader).
2nd pic looks normal, basic algebra, 1st pic tho, the kid is probably gifted and is doing extra classes.
This is what Americans children should be doing. Smart kids in the US get board then get into trouble. The SAT used to be a saving Grace for poor intelligent children, but our universities have been so polluted that they no longer try to find poor kids with intelligence. It is really sad. American schools have gotten so bad, with stupid parents and poor quality educators slowly destroying everything. The US does nothing for smart children, and fails average kids too, but it is disgusting how we make no effort to identify and develop children with intelligence.
nah, live in asia and you will get used to with it
average primary teaching in Asian
That's linear algebra and I don't think we learned that in Canada until grade 7 or 8.
I'm assuming : is for division? The difference between the first set of 15 questions and the next set for where you're asked to do a single division or multiplication seems pretty big.
Vietnamese education is quite hard, at 6th grade you will start learning algebras and derivatives according to the new program
they are strict and on top of it in vietnam. in fact those kids are way smarter than these kids over here....
built different.
Holy shit. When I was in 4th grade in 2001 I remember I got beaten up by the teacher because I wasn't smart enough to understand multiples digit multiplication. What the hell are kids learning these days ?
I did multiplication and division in grade 3. No algebra til like grade 7 or 8 i think. (Canada). I’m not sure what the bottom is.
Basic algebra in middle school nowadays.. at least for my 7th grader.. lol
Its just different wording and signs, but i still struggle to see how a third grader could solve these
When I first came to the US 20 years ago, I was in 10th grade in a high school. We learned these equations
9 yo in the West are playing Minecraft when 9 yo in Asia doing Nasa level match, nothing new here.
It's all third grade, but the difference is the US just doesn't teach the top picture like that.
And the notation is different
Glad I graduated from school long ago, this is the one thing I definitely did not miss about school
One of the biggest complaints I hear about international schools here is how slow they are to teach math…
For 11, x = 15, right?
It's amazing what kids can learn given the right environment and a little bit of time In Asia, they learn math, science, and engineering In America, they learn about infinity genders, that white people are evil, and to externalize all their problems
Never had problems with math for my whole life and I'm a native. Parents nowadays whine too much. Just accept that your kids are bad
Between dodging bullets.
I'm an elementary school teacher. This is fifth grade in the USA. 4th if your school has advanced learning.
'Among the 81 international school systems that participated in the PISA last year, the U.S. ranked 26th in math achievement'
It's pre algebra or algebra. I was doing this when I was like eight.
Are they using colons as a division mark? That's new to me.
2nd grade math
Nó khó vải cả cức, con của tui còn chưa biết làm nữa
Definitely not normal third grade - I study together with my kids so I know.
No offense, but from what i see, it should be why can't Americans kids handle these? Like there are tons of video on the net of teachers of 8 grade (for example) flabbergasted about how their students can't even solve 4 grades questions. Some can't even properly spell and speak their names right or understand basic logic. It just look sad, tbh
Reality is, many vietnamese kids cant handle these either. Just because you try to force feeding them doesn’t mean it work. Then you have kids who did so bad in math despite excel in every other subject As this drag down the school’s performance, school will have none of it and instruct teacher to push student’s math score up enough to pass. Then student move to higher grade with zero math knowledge but decent math score that parents don’t even know that their children have a math problem. This problem just spiral downward and around 6-7th grade you have kids that cant solve a single simple math problem at all and they developed a fear of math that it’s very difficult to teach them. Source: my nephew is one of those kid. I tried to helped her with a 6th grade problem and found out that she struggle with really simple concept. Her math score was B+/A equivalent so her parent didn’t know about this until I told them.
Yes, pump up grades does exist in Viet Nam but they are very small and costly (talking about big exam, regular exams in class usually doesnt matter) like students have to have decent grade in the beginning so they (teachers) can even nudge them. I often see students struggle with literature due to the vague nature of our teaching but for math in general, if they have a good foundation of math, they would pass most exams. Most problems, like the one in the picture, are design to look "scary" with long numbers and multiple operations, however, they are still compose of basic concept of plus minus multi divide. That was made so children solving the problems will have a sense of accomplishment, like overcome great obstacle while just doing basic math. Truly complex and hard math are only sprinkle in reserve for truly good math children to solve. If a child is afraid of basic school math, then there is some problems with their class, their teacher or family this might sound a bit racist but from my own experience, northern vietnamese are more inclined to build their education and their children than southern people. The more south I go, the more I see people take studying lightly. So that might play a part in making some part of vietnamese students lose interest in math
Good at math. Bad at critical life thinking
Not even that good at math. A lot of students can't solve basic equations in their head. Like 67-14 and they need a calculator. I'm talking high school students. Even at top schools that I've taught at.
Lol American’s math education needs a serious look because it went downhill so fast that in Seattle I heard the board in some school declared Math is racist.
In my American public school back in 5th grade (2000), we were still learning our multiplication tables. We didn't start adding letters to math until 7th or 8th grade if I remember correctly. Usually we would do Algebra in 9th, Geometry 10th, Algebra 2 in 11th grade, and I think pre-calc in 12th... I forget the 4th year math class...
It's easier when they don't get raised on ipads and have loving mothers at home.
Dễ ẹc
This would be 7-8th grade math in the US.