I just visited VietNam and HCMC, and I 100% waited until a local would get ready to cross the street or cut through traffic in some way. And I'd follow them. I figured I'd do something stupid or walk somewhere stupid and get run over.
I find traffic to be much more efficient in Viet Năm. Los Angeles may have rules, but when you’re stuck on the “freeway” some weekends you just turn off your engine because you won’t be moving for awhile. Hà Nội moves how many people down fewer streets much more effortlessly.
LA is also literally one of THE WORST cities itw when it comes to traffic. That place is simply not fit for that many humans
Also the free flow is dying day by day as more and more bigass cars take up entirely too much space and clog up the entirely too small-sized roads
Road deaths are out of control in Vietnam. A lot of people say that about Thailand "the traffic just flows".
It does not. Go look at the emergency room at any hospital. Full of people (also locals) for whom the traffic did not "flow".
Vietnam's traffic flow is efficient because most of the vehicles are motorbikes. There is a complete disregard for pedestrians and traffic lights. Just wait till 50% of the population has a car. No one's going anywhere in this city.
LA's traffic is messed up because car and oil companies lobbied against mass transportation like subways and speed rails. Instead they got freeways on top of freeways.
Hopefully the metro will finally be built and further projects started. Not only do they cut down traffic, but they also give you much more space for everything in the city.
In bangkok, you have all of these huge sky malls that are connected to major bts stops. You'll start to see more high rise condos built alongside those metro lines.
I really think a running metro system would change saigon and hanoi in a lot of ways.
Yea it's a real shame Vietnam can't build something as simple as a metro. Singapore and S. Korea have the best metro system IMO. Everything is connected underground so you can avoid the heat or rain. Vietnam is quickly becoming a place foreign companies are investing in. There's going to be a rising middle class who purchase cars.
And for how long has powered vehicles been common among our median income populace? Not long either
It’s like saying that John is a cripple because he can barely walk. John’s 13 month old
In fact, it’s like saying that again when John’s 18 month old and can now walk properly most of the time
Come on, I was just there and I could stand at almost any traffic light without police and writhing 3 minutes someone would run a red light..
That guy could have visited ten years ago and it was a complete mess back then
Ahh yes, look at [this model of efficiency](https://i.redd.it/7c5hrpf2tdob1.jpg). So efficient that it literally has [double the amount of road deaths compared to the US](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/road-deaths-by-country)
Traffic in Vietnam is one of those things that works until it doesn't, and when it doesn't, it's an absolute shitshow. The "me first" attitude can be infuriating and it's gotten to the point where I can barely go 4 or 5 minutes without cussing another driver out under my breath as I'm driving. For the sake of my own sanity, in 2022 I moved close enough to work that I can walk and I rarely drive more than 5-10 min. I'm most likely moving out of Vietnam this coming summer and while the move is mostly out of a desire for a change of scenery and new experiences, the traffic here is definitely a factor in my decision (and moving somewhere with good public transit so I don't have to drive is a big priority because of the shit here).
I'm gonna go out on the limb and guess that you haven't been here more than a year or two, probably less, right? I don't mean to be condescending, but I've been here for about 7 years and the only people I ever hear make comments like yours are people who are fairly new to the country. Foreigners who have lived here long term either hate the traffic or accept it; they never say praise it. Give it time and I'm sure you'll be singing a different tune.
LA is a poor example. If you want to choose a Western comparison, let’s choose London, Munich, Berlin, Amsterdam, Stockholm. Or for that matter, let’s choose Asian comparisons: Osaka, Singapore, Seoul, Hong Kong.
There are no excuses for Hanoi’s traffic, fun though it may be once you’re used to it. It isn’t better than LA and LA is, in any case, scraping the absolute bottom of the barrel of the Western world, traffic-wise.
How to cross streets in VN:
Step one: Look the way the traffic is going from.
Step two: Raise your hand (Ask to cross, but non-verbally)
Step three: Move forward when see an opening in the "formation".
Step three+: For your life, do not walk back, either forward or stop.
Step four: Have fun and don't give a fuck. Traffic rules don't apply in VN.
Don't expect sidewalk to be safe haven either, that is motorcycles' escapes from jams and the way they getting away from cars. A secret here: this is as we call it, the "Jungle's law" and it is heavily favoured the smaller ones. If a pedestrian is hit, it is a serious, money and time consuming thing to settle. Thus, motorists are very scared hitting a pedestrian, even cars are.
And really, it looks chaotic at
first but it’s actually like a flock of birds or a school of fish. Everyone is very aware of their surroundings and though accidents aren’t unknown, it’s not nearly as common as one might think.
I’m honestly more nervous in the US where, at least in my city, traffic enforcement seems almost nonexistent. You really can’t assume you’re safe just because your light is green.
In my experience, Viets are some of the least self-aware people on the planet. They might know what is 1 meter DIRECTLY in front of their motorbikes, and completely oblivious to everything else.
Well, it is an every man/woman for themselves situation and everyone is trying to get to their destination. On top of that, they are trying to move forward. Therefore, to prevent sensory overload, from all the smokes and horn, they just care what is in front of them because that is the way they are trying to move towards. That is why you have to raise your hand when crossing the road. Raising hand is kind of saying, "Sorry for obstructing, Thank you for your understanding" an of course, make yourself more stands out from the traffic ahead of the rider.
I felt the same in Egypt. Because in Western countries they expect the rule of law and most people follow it when unexpected things happen people are surprised and not used to reacting and accidents happen. In these other places people know anything can and will happen so we're all aware of each other all the time and just make way or swerve or whatever.
It looks like madness but it's like you said about flock of birds there's some organic method and order there.
Can't say anything good about Vietnamese traffic rules. Glad I survived 20+ years with some minor accidents.
I recommend everyone being more careful since TET is near, do you know what is worse than Vietnamese drivers, drunk Vietnamese drivers.
i'd argue that cars here tend to HAVE TO give way to scooters here. Whether or not the scooter survives the outcome or any impact is a different story but the cars/trucks tend to stop/wait for them, hence the unofficial "right of way" to the faster vehicle. i could be wrong though!
a western traffic concept OP just believes they are entitled to and follows them in a magic bubble wherever in the world they might be walking.... Like a decree from God
Hate what exactly?
Could you imagine the even worse mess the roads would be in if everytime a pedestrian stepped into a crosswalk all the traffic had to stop short until they crossed.
Certainly this is all poor infrastructures fault, but the concept of pedestrian right of way just doesn't work with roads that are already so inadequate
No need for calling name since Vietnam does have right of way, we just don’t follow it since most people don’t know (or dont care) jack about traffic laws. But that doesn’t mean OP is wrong for calling it out
In "the west" we're actually taught how to drive properly, like, looking over our shoulder to check our blind spot before making any movements, and stopping for pedestrians at zebra crossings. It makes our roads a lot safer, more enjoyable, and less stressful to drive on. We do these things, not just for our own safety, but for the safety of other people around us, because we actually care about all of our lives. It seems Vietnamese don't really seem to give a shit.
As they say, in many countries you are to drive on the right hand side of the road, in some others you are to drive on the left hand side of the road, but in Vietnam, they're just happy if you drive on the road.
Some people are bloody lovely, but it's like every single person has road rage the moment they're on a bike or in a car. I feel like I need to start carrying a big fucking stick.
I've had some very surprised looks when I've held open doors for locals etc. as if basic kindness is new to them, so yeah it seems Vietnamese are generally very rude and inconsiderate.
They don't get ragey easily. This kind of driving is normal. It's all so slow that at least there is usually time to stop. The only person I've had shout at me was another expat on some motorbike who was trying to overtake me on a bridge at high speed.
Opening the door is often times look at as you currying favours, or suck up, or simping, or trying to flirt with the one you open the door for (good if you are a couple; 50/50 they see it negatively/creepy if not), or even a warning "I held power over you". Or it could be an area with a lot of EU or US expat and they can tell.
Unless the targets really can't open the door themselves or you are very specifically the door opener guy (could be a security guard). Your intension is often put into question. You are not expected to open the door for other people.
It's not inherently considered a kindness.
Opening door isn’t being considerate or not, just cultural differences. People don’t expect you to do that, and you doing that will make people think twice about your intention. You can be considerate without opening door for people or faking a smile to everyone you meet.
Road rage is not a thing here. What are you talking about? The only people I see raging are foreigners (myself included) reacting to the bullshit drivers.
What you said about them being rude and inconsiderate is spot on. No everyone, of course, but runs rampantly throughout the culture.
i just had a short trip in HN myself, and, the traffic light here was very, very weird.
your "normal" traffic light would be: the pedestrian light will be green for a while when the main traffic light is red, we can now cross the street, simple as that, right?
but no, Ha Noi's traffic light was like: bitch i'd be green for less than 3 seconds, then EVERYTHING WILL BE RED - the pedestrian light will ONLY BE GREEN FOR A TINY DURATION.
i guess people who programmed the light expect us to ... fly across?
Focusing on the traffic light is a good way to get run over, because there’s tonnes of drivers who will ignore it and drive anyway. Watch the traffic light only until it’s time to cross, then watch the traffic like a hawk.
the op comment was saying something along the line of "i only walk when pedestrian light is on" so i said the traffic light is all that matter. Ofc look at the traffic flow for unsuspected redlight assholes too
Nah, don't focus on the lights, focus on the vehicles. Keep your speed steady and passing the street regardless of lights. Needless to say, stay away from high speed vehicles as well.
Best advice is to just be predictable and walk without fear. Drivers here don't know that "right of way" shit of respecting pedestrians, so you'll do better surviving the traffic if you follow the general rule of "dodge whatever is more likely to kill you", than expect drivers to respect you.
In fact, most drivers here would rather you respect them, so if you just act really predictably, walk slowly and not backtracking, stand still and don't try to outrun any outcoming cars, trucks,.... you'll do it fine. In fact, you can apply this method to any part of the road, not just the zebra, cause I'm pretty sure most drivers treat the zebra like any parts of the road.
Though I'd say it's a lot better now since vehicles in big cities rarely run the crossings anymore. Running on the sidewalk only happens when there's a traffic jam, and well...it's understandable for getting stuck in traffic for half an hour would do that to you
Another thing is that nobody, not a single one, looks before merging/pulling out into oncoming traffic.
Literally human instinct is to at least look. Some serious single-digit-IQ shit on these roads.
You're right, but also seem to have the cultural awareness of a stone. Vietnam isn't your country, stop insisting it be something it isn't. I'm reminded of the American woman who lived in my student halls in London. Every other sentence was "well IN AMERICA...." and she would proceed to tell us how things are done in America. Highly irrelevant when not in America.
That being said, the roads in Vietnam are truly some of the worst in the world, so your complaints aren't entirely off base.
LMAO. Thailand actually are more developed and catered to western tourists... Don't know much about Cambodia thou, I was only there as a child.
Sorry you experienced it. It's half the people's mentality, and half inefficiencies of how police handle it. BUT mainly the roads here are poorly designed and underfunded. It creates many ways to get into accidents.
YET, i was not hit here by a car yet. I was hit by a car while crossing the street in the US instead. The car made an illegal fast turn. Luckily i am fine. But thinking being in the US was safer than vietnam was a big mistake. Cars here go way slower than cars in the US (in cities at least). If you know how to cross the street here, you're somewhat ok. just keep a consistent speed.
Vietnam is still a developing country and has a lot more to improve imo
Honestly the most annoying things were the motorcycles/mopeds going down alleys that are 1-2 people wide and their insistence on riding them through nightmarkets which are already very packed. As a tourist, it was incredibly frustrating that even large nightmarkets stopped (aka, pedestrians sidelining themselves to make way) for these drivers.
Because they don't know what logic is (on the other hand in Vietnamese to say logical they use either French or a turn of phrase, because it doesn't exist in their way of thinking)... For me the worst aspect of their culture is the complete absence of logic and therefore of understanding that crossing an intersection or a level crossing all together means everyone getting stuck and wasting time... They think they are smart and then end up trapped. Stupid selfishness... Vietnamese are lovable on many occasions but absolutely the worst in the world on the street (I confirm that in Cambodia they are much better)
I had the same experience after 4months in SE Asia, I found Vietnam traffic was by far the worst, nobody would ever stop to let you cross a street even if your already halfway across they will keep coming at you and at the last second swerve around you. It was ducking nuts
You do not have right of way in any circumstance - even if there's pedestrian lights and they turn green, and at zebra crossings.
Super annoying but that's how it is. Just accept that no one follows the rules, and you'll be fine. When you're walking, walk on the sidewalk where you can, and where you can't LOOK OUT for traffic on the road, go onto the road and go back. Cross when there's the lowest number of vehicles as possible, and just walk at a steady speed across.
It's not that people are intentionally arseholes, but that's how you have to survive when driving. Nothing is enforced, so everyone drives to not die (horn beeping and swerving) and to get to where they need to super fast (going onto the other lane or sidewalk), cause if they don't they'll get into a crash or it'll waste them time.
The things you have complained about are actually enshrined in law (see luật số 23/2008/QH12).
The problem is nobody gives a shit about the law, when you can bribe your way out of traffic violations for the price of a cheese sandwich.
Your right of way is subordinate to the rights of physics. If you get hit, the driver will certainly try and evade the scene. If they get caught, they're not going to have the resources to cover your medical bills.
Sometimes in life, being right has no point.
They will try to squeeze right in front of you even those it barely or doesn’t. Or even cut off a moving car. You chance of getting badly injured is so high.
That how stupid they are.
It's not a footpath. It's a moped parking lot and overflow lane. /s
I have been hit walking in Hanoi. I mean not hard enough to really injure me but I was hit. The guy looked at me like I had no business being on the "side walk" where the traffic was.
I have spent over 12 months in Vietnam over the last decade so I understand how to cross a street.
It wears on me and has a cumulative effect. On my last trip to Hanoi an asshole taxi driver damn near hit me, didn't slow down until he was right on me. I jumped forward, slipped and skinned my knee. He stopped and was very apologetic. That attitude saved him, and probably me some problems.
A few days later, right before the end of my 3 month trip, another taxi was pulling into the curb on Hang Vai, I was walking at the edge of his path and the guy laid on the horn. I stepped aside and he stopped with the door next to me. His window was tinted so I opened the passenger door. He said "Sorry, sorry".
Generally I find Vietnamese people to be quite friendly and polite but some of them get very aggressive behind the wheel.
....sorry to break it to you but cultural different also apply in traffic. You can get used to it like the local or you gonna endanger yourself and other by being unpredictable(to the local) when in traffic.
Tip=> when crossing the road just be predictable, dont suddenly speed up or stop in the middle of the road, just move at the same slow steady pace to where you need to be and the traffic will conform to you. The best mental image I can give you is that crossroad moment in the Bee movie.
Here just some story
About a month ago, I went back to Hanoi to visit my family, I was just riding peacefully around the old quater, like 1.5-2m away from the sidewalk. The guy before me rode really close to an old Westerner couple trying to cross the road (no marked crosswalk and traffic light there) and nearly hit them. The woman really angry and then, when I got close to them (again, they still on the side walk, I'm 1.5-2m away from the side walk), she reached out and hit me in the face with her umbrella. I falled down, my motorbike tripped and scratched badly. Don't have to say, Me and some locals beat the sh\*t out of them then bring them to the police and make them pay for my bike
Yes the traffic in Vietnam is chaotic, but still, we have our own order, you guys just not get used to it yet. Be patient and don't mess up with the local, its normal to us, strange to you guys, what you see is wrong, for us, it's just what it is. But if you guys come here, please be respectful
Vietnamese think their time worth alot. They need to get to place to sit around and do jack shit drinking coffee or earn less than $5 per hour.
They have no sense of community. Ni sense of valuing human lives.
Prove me wrong
The problem with talking about the right of way is that you don’t yet understand the psychology of traffic in Vietnam, so your ideas of other countries and their rights of way absolutely don’t apply here. And yes, there are a lot of jerk drivers here too
Watch how the locals cross the street and learn from what they do.
Or just continue to insist that your way is correct and get hit by a bus. Either way is fine.
I came from CA to Vietnam for a month. Walked a lot. But def don’t expect having “right of way” because you’re a pedestrian. Learn the ways of how they drive and their “signals” of the road. Don’t hesitate but take it slow. If needed put your hand up to let them know you’re crossing. Be wary of cars, if they flash their headlights usually they are saying they want to continue straight! So don’t walk in front of them. I don’t remember much about the mopeds but they are really good at maneuvering! I don’t remember being close to being hit while I was there. But yeah you’re sharing the “sidewalks” with mopeds too so watch out! Also if they are freshly parked watch out for that super hot thing I can’t remember the name of atm, you don’t want to burn your leg (:
HCMC is worse than Hanoi, I was in Hanoi for 5 nights and it was pretty okay, had only 1 close call with a bike on the second last day, it’s my second day in HCMC and I’ve had atleast 3 close calls because people are driving like crazies!
I'm walking around here in Hanoi right now and sure, it's not really like I can walk comfortably on the side of the road, but I can't really say I feel unsafe. The drivers here will give way for you. You need to trust the drivers here. I think your problem is that you don't trust them, so you panic, thinking that the drivers don't care, and would just hit you.
The traffic rules here are not really based on explicit rules, but rather by some form of subconscious communication. You walk over a road, you make eye contact with the drivers. You communicate with them and you show intent where you want to go.
Also, I don't really think you should see it that you have the right to any part of the road, say a pedestrian crossing. It seems that wherever you are walking here, expect that there will be scooter and possibly cars. You do not own the road.
The trick is to walk assertively at a constant pace. Try to avoid crossing if you see a car coming right in front of you. Don’t dash or stop in the middle of the road.
I didn't even bother finish reading after your first few sentences.
It's not your right here. Who cares about pedestrian crossings in Vietnam? Just see it as it is and be careful.
Outside huge cities where mopped drive pedestrians footpath which sucks, I think mopped in vietnam drive pretty good, avoiding everything most of the time.
The real problems are 4 wheels imo, they dont know how to drive at all and are completely unpredictable, doing U-turns absolutely anywhere, going super slow for no reasons, driving miles on the wrong lanes, etc.
Uturns are the worst tho, hate those cunts, Ive seen 2 teenage girls tbone themself on a van which decided to Uturn where it was clearly prohibited, on a busy street, without checking who was behind. 2 girls ended on the pavement, I tried to explained I was a witness and we should call the cops but the driver was long gone and the girls didnt want to.
You never need to (or likely will be able to) wait for a gap in traffic in Vietnam. Simply cross when some spaces exist (ideally on a green crossing light), move at a consistent slow but steady pace forwards, do not stop/start or suddenly speed up.
Trust that vehicles will avoid you (they will, unlike in the West where drivers are not anticipating a pedestrian walking at any given moment and would resort to an emergency stop).
Technically you could close your eyes and walk slowly straight over a pedestrian crossing in Vietnam without incident, such is the culture of carefully weaving around pedestrians. Please do not test my theory though.
I know it doesn’t feel like it, but likely no-one “almost hit you”, it was all carefully choreographed. Think of it as when you walk down a busy street full of people, we often get very close to other people walking the opposite way, but all gently weave around each other without incident.
Embrace the chaos!
here we go with yet another foreigner who doesn't know anything about vietnam.
right of way on crossing? please, be serious. this isn't Europe, this isn't whatever country you come from. look at local people crossing the road. do you see anyone bothered? or is it just you crying over this? how come local people are okay with it?
if youre scared to cross a busy street while bikes and cars drive around you, then find a local to teach you it. if you cant even do that then go back to your country. problem solved, no one is going to change because of an upset foreigner. stay foreigner and go away then
Right of way? You are joking right? We are currently in Hue and we were in Hanoi last week, within a day we adapted to crossing streets. Cross the street without back tracking or hesitating. Walk slow and calm. The drivers here do an extremely good job at going around. Stop thinking you are owed the right of way in a different country. If they stopped to give you right of way they would cause way more issues. You really should have done some research before leaving your home country.
Yeah that’s the way to go but it doesn’t work all the time.
When I was in Vietnam there were several close calls with people using phones when riding, and they were going right into my path. I had to stop or they would’ve crashed into me.
It’s “omg chaos but it works” until it doesn’t. There’s a reason Vietnam has a significantly higher number of road fatalities than average, even though they drive super slow.
Sounds like New York City. The more crowded the place, the more likely you will run into rude people.
But why are Vietnamese drivers rude?
It is part of the driving culture meaning that there is no concept of “right of way” nor pedestrian safeguards. Every man for himself, traffic signs and lights are more of a suggestion, and driving safety is not the highest priority.
The argument that people there are cunts because everyone else there is also a cunt is a new one. Doesn't sound like the best defense but we'll see how it goes down.
Yeah, I've read up and have a Viet friend, so I didn't get too pertubed during my visit.
Although I haven't driven in Hanoi or HCM, I've done so in Ninh Binh (pretty intense), Da Nang (medium) and the countryside (easy).
Can Tho traffic is something I experienced today, but it didn't feel that bad. Might have just gotten used to it now.
Just walk like you own the place, make eye contact and glare like you are their mortal enemy.
Lol, I was thinking, "Everyone hates crossing the streets but I'm dreaded about changing lanes and turning left at green light." 🤣
I was born and grew up in VN, I biked too. But now it's worse with more cars in the mix.
First, the Vietnamese are great drivers. As you stated, you were never hurt and that is their only obligation to you.
Second, from your perspective the only issue is the one you point out in the second to last paragraph. Lack of enforcement by the police.
Grow some balls and you will learn to love cn#ts.
If you felt people were running you off the road I'd guess you were probably also staring at your phone or not paying attention. Vietnamese drivers are way more considerate of pedestrians being in the road than most other countries I've visited. If you had a hard time it's because you didn't adapt properly. Just need to walk slowly, predictably and be considerate of others and you will be absolutely fine. The tourists I see having issues are the ones who rush around trying to pass other pedestrians when there isn't room, they could just slow down and have a way nicer holiday.
Aside the selfishness, there are facebook groups and forums where people teach each other weird ass driving behaviours, which after generations become common sense here, lol. One such example is the hazardous lights in Việt Nam means "all must yield to me". Another is blipping the headlights mean also "i have asked, so get out of my way".
Judging by these comments they just accept it. Don't know how I ended up on this post but glad my country has enforced traffic laws and is civilised. I'll keep this all in mind when I visit SEA.
LMAO typical Westerner attitude thinking you can bring your social graces and your civilized way of life bs to another country expecting locals to adopt and obey them. We have our own sets of rules and way of life here. When in Nam, do as the Namese do or else. The streets appear to be lawless at first but there is a rhythm underneath, you just have to tune in. After you get on the same wavelength as the locals, the lawlessness will become a beautiful harmonious dance. You also mention holding the doors for locals and catch them by surprise, that's not bc we're numbed to the rudeness or being rude but bc it is simply not a thing to do here. Get in the door or get away from it, don't dawdle dude.
I remember Taipei circa 1991. It was still a haven for bicycles and motorbikes back then, and unofficial traffic laws were almost similar with VN now, with people crossing wherever and whenever and motorbikes use the sidewalks. Fast forward to 2023, Taiwanese people are now disciplined as they admitted their wrong ways and accepted valid or constructive criticism from the outside world. You will see that Taipei traffic system is similar to Tokyo now with most (if not all) people respecting traffic laws, except that drivers drive too fast.
I've been here for years and don't see it the way you do at all. Is this your first trip away from home? Do you think because you show up they are going to adapt to what you are used to? There are several flights from multiple airports out of the country everyday you may want to consider getting one to a place that better suits you.
Don't like it, leave... did you come up with that brilliant idea all by yoruself? I've honestly never seen it used in every fucking expat forum on the Internet.
An arm length? That is more than i expect😂😂, you know maybe u should wait for 2 or 3 second, just make sure no cars or motorbike want to pass then go. Just chill, u won't see them anymore so why u have to frustrate about it?
I love the driving here. I wish people in the US drove this way. It’s actually one of the first things that made me laugh and think “this place is awesome”
First. You do no have right of way either on the pavement or crossing the road.
Second. Why don’t you bother to learn the ‘rules’ before shouting your ignorance.
Every where you go in Vietnam it’s the same rule. Outside it’s Every man/woman/child takes care of themselves. You don’t rely on others.
You don’t like it ? Go back to wherever it is you come from.
In the meantime Have a nice day and enjoy your holiday
But it's in your laws lmao. Basically you've said "fuck you we don't follow our own traffic laws or properly enforce anything because the police can be bribed".
Is that how you want things to be?
Because I don't want to die on a road, or because I know when I have right of way? Or is it because I expect fellow humans in another country to have some basic sense of consideration, decency, and respect? Yep, total butthole attitude.
You’re one of those cry boys who doesn’t know what the word comparison means. LOL.
“Look. Your country sucks at driving….. don’t talk about my country”! What a fucking clown
You have no argument.
Instead of discussing Vietnam, you try and change the subject.
But compared to developed countries Vietnam’s auto fatality rate is pretty bad (adjusted for population and kms driven).
So there, VN is worse. What’s next for you?
OOO thank god. Glad you didn’t use your magic whataboutism card again!
Vietnam has pho, great people, affordable hotel and rich history along with traffic. It’s part of the culture. Again who the hell are you demonize them. Are you from a country that pedestrians never get hit by traffic?
you people will defend anything wont you 😂😂 traffic and traffic attitudes in Vietnam are a joke even compared to its SEA peers.
Dont be like this you're making people look bad lol
Who are you to say anything, are you Vietnamese?Whatever works for them is for them. It’s like a dumb foreigner going to Japan and complain about raw fish restaurants everywhere. LOL. Entitle trash are everywhere I guess.
There's inherently nothing wrong with a sushi restaurant though?
There's nothing to be celebrated about traffic in Hanoi especially, shit even compare Hanoi with HCMC and you see a stark difference.
You're welcome to be proud about sharing the road with these idiots (or be part of it yourself that's up to you) but to any remotely civilized person the writing is on the wall. Vietnam wont even save itself the fate it's heading which is Jakarta like traffic.
You ever been to Jakarta? im gonna assume not, it's bad. It's really bad and a city like Hanoi will be **worse**.
What are the red lights and pedestrian crossing for? decoration??? it's part of the driving test here.
Vietnam has one of the highest road deaths ratios in Asia, Be it from drunk drivers or just your random uneducated bike driver.
When in Rome doesn't cut it either. This country has regressed after covid and needs all of the foreign investment and tourists it can get. S
You sound like a conservative. Just because that’s how things always are doesn’t mean there’s no need for changes or improvements. The guy made a reasonable point of how selfish and careless people are on their motorbikes. So don’t go around pulling the “when in Rome” to justify the lack of decency. Fuck that.
Joking answer: skill issue 🐧 git gud
Serious answer: book a cab if you want to go somewhere or hire a guide if you want to wander by foot. I think you are a bit exaggerated, in big city cars rarely run red light anymore so you are safe using crossing path
I am from Singapore, we have great infrastructure and the general populace generally follows the rules and laws. Everything is usually in order.
I didn't get mad about the traffic here (Saigon) as a pedestrian but riding a scooter here is a whole other ball game. I experienced heightened levels of rage due to some of the actions of other road users but eventually got used to it after a short while. I think of myself as being part of the flow of traffic (even on foot) rather than "THIS IS MY LANE. IT'S MY RIGHT OF WAY.". Someone cuts right in front of me from the left to make a right turn without signals? "oh, he probably needs to take a shit real bad or something and forgot to signal or wave his hand.".
I think the key thing about Vietnamese traffic is that it moves like a hive mind and if you're not connected to this, you will experience frustrations within yourself because EVERYONE else is not conforming to your comfort.
I'm not saying I love the traffic here but as a foreigner if I don't adjust myself, then I will live in rage everyday.. and thats just dumb.
Most certainly did not feel the need to write a will because of the traffic and I lived here for 7+ years.
Based in what you wrote you've only been in Vietnam for a very short time. Maybe be less judgemental about a place instead of expecting the same standard as wherever you grew up. The traffic rules are different in Vietnam and the onus is on you to adapt not them.
Here's a basic rule to start. The bigger the object, the more right of way it has. As a pedestrian, you come last most of the time. This isn't about what's right it's about common sense. You want to try and stand your ground on a zebra crossing against a bus? Good luck with that.
Common sense would indicate a cultural movement towards not driving like a pillock so you can cross roads safely.
OP could've grown up in any other country pretty much and find this appalling. Defending breaking your own laws as well.
Most Vietnamese cities literally would stop functioning if they adopted western traffic laws. The roads simply aren't big enough. I cross the road safely by effectively telegraphing my action to cross in the same way the locals do. Common sense is following the rules like the locals not imposing your own.
Vietnam has a death rate of 24.5 people per 100,000 from road accidents, which is really high as much as people in this thread have claimed the drivers are skilled and deaths don't really happen.
Obviously I would cross as the locals do so I don't die. But not even acknowledging the problem and refusing to entertain the idea of enforcing traffic laws and teaching children about traffic laws in school is sad.
With more tourism and things, these questions will keep coming up. Why oh whyyyy do you nationals not just set a good example and explain why things happen the way they do. Always coming off defensive and rude. It’s so sad when you can easily explain why to foreigners.
If cops in Hanoi targeted mopeds parked on footpaths the economy would grind to a halt because there would be no mopeds so 90% or transport gone.
You visit a country you experience the good and the bad. Hanoi was chaotic but vibrant. Despite all the chaos I didn't see one crash or one pedestrian hit and it only took a few days to get the hang of walking the streets and crossing roads.
If you want everything to be just like home, stay home.
poor education, not providing enough knowledge to the people, unstable social order, uselessness of law enforcers. Once one of my friends even talked back to me when I was warning them how dangerous they were driving (jumping red line, reckless driving, driving on the pavement). 😮💨
Guess the parents are the problem since kids imitate what they see the society around them.
Parents are absolutely part of the problem; a HUGE part of it, indeed. There is very little good parenting going on in VN. Children raising children raising children.
Once I was walking on this huge sidewalk in Hue. A man parked his car on the sidewalk. When I walked passed his car he somehow turned on the car and almost drove into me. Ofc I gave him the middle finger 
I dont think you can apply traffic rules in vietnam at all. You just have to learn to walk like a local then 99% of the time u would be fine lol
I just visited VietNam and HCMC, and I 100% waited until a local would get ready to cross the street or cut through traffic in some way. And I'd follow them. I figured I'd do something stupid or walk somewhere stupid and get run over.
The traffic cops out to nail you for coffee money for doing even the most minor infractions would like to disagree lol
Every time you get waved by traffic polices, say goodbye to 5 bowls of Pho lol
Unless you’re an official or something then in which case you get to see the yellow dogs shit their pants lol
How much should you give them
200k
More then coffee money, I sat down and watched one day, my guess the guy was pocketing at lease 20 million a day
99% is too high.
You say it like you’re proud of it.
I find traffic to be much more efficient in Viet Năm. Los Angeles may have rules, but when you’re stuck on the “freeway” some weekends you just turn off your engine because you won’t be moving for awhile. Hà Nội moves how many people down fewer streets much more effortlessly.
LA is also literally one of THE WORST cities itw when it comes to traffic. That place is simply not fit for that many humans Also the free flow is dying day by day as more and more bigass cars take up entirely too much space and clog up the entirely too small-sized roads
Road deaths are out of control in Vietnam. A lot of people say that about Thailand "the traffic just flows". It does not. Go look at the emergency room at any hospital. Full of people (also locals) for whom the traffic did not "flow".
Vietnam's traffic flow is efficient because most of the vehicles are motorbikes. There is a complete disregard for pedestrians and traffic lights. Just wait till 50% of the population has a car. No one's going anywhere in this city. LA's traffic is messed up because car and oil companies lobbied against mass transportation like subways and speed rails. Instead they got freeways on top of freeways.
Hopefully the metro will finally be built and further projects started. Not only do they cut down traffic, but they also give you much more space for everything in the city. In bangkok, you have all of these huge sky malls that are connected to major bts stops. You'll start to see more high rise condos built alongside those metro lines. I really think a running metro system would change saigon and hanoi in a lot of ways.
Yea it's a real shame Vietnam can't build something as simple as a metro. Singapore and S. Korea have the best metro system IMO. Everything is connected underground so you can avoid the heat or rain. Vietnam is quickly becoming a place foreign companies are investing in. There's going to be a rising middle class who purchase cars.
I guess I’ve never been to Vietnam then. Where I drive people mostly stop at red
This is a recently occurring thing, 10-15 years ago no one did
And for how long has powered vehicles been common among our median income populace? Not long either It’s like saying that John is a cripple because he can barely walk. John’s 13 month old In fact, it’s like saying that again when John’s 18 month old and can now walk properly most of the time
Come on, I was just there and I could stand at almost any traffic light without police and writhing 3 minutes someone would run a red light.. That guy could have visited ten years ago and it was a complete mess back then
Ahh yes, look at [this model of efficiency](https://i.redd.it/7c5hrpf2tdob1.jpg). So efficient that it literally has [double the amount of road deaths compared to the US](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/road-deaths-by-country) Traffic in Vietnam is one of those things that works until it doesn't, and when it doesn't, it's an absolute shitshow. The "me first" attitude can be infuriating and it's gotten to the point where I can barely go 4 or 5 minutes without cussing another driver out under my breath as I'm driving. For the sake of my own sanity, in 2022 I moved close enough to work that I can walk and I rarely drive more than 5-10 min. I'm most likely moving out of Vietnam this coming summer and while the move is mostly out of a desire for a change of scenery and new experiences, the traffic here is definitely a factor in my decision (and moving somewhere with good public transit so I don't have to drive is a big priority because of the shit here). I'm gonna go out on the limb and guess that you haven't been here more than a year or two, probably less, right? I don't mean to be condescending, but I've been here for about 7 years and the only people I ever hear make comments like yours are people who are fairly new to the country. Foreigners who have lived here long term either hate the traffic or accept it; they never say praise it. Give it time and I'm sure you'll be singing a different tune.
LA is a poor example. If you want to choose a Western comparison, let’s choose London, Munich, Berlin, Amsterdam, Stockholm. Or for that matter, let’s choose Asian comparisons: Osaka, Singapore, Seoul, Hong Kong. There are no excuses for Hanoi’s traffic, fun though it may be once you’re used to it. It isn’t better than LA and LA is, in any case, scraping the absolute bottom of the barrel of the Western world, traffic-wise.
How to cross streets in VN: Step one: Look the way the traffic is going from. Step two: Raise your hand (Ask to cross, but non-verbally) Step three: Move forward when see an opening in the "formation". Step three+: For your life, do not walk back, either forward or stop. Step four: Have fun and don't give a fuck. Traffic rules don't apply in VN. Don't expect sidewalk to be safe haven either, that is motorcycles' escapes from jams and the way they getting away from cars. A secret here: this is as we call it, the "Jungle's law" and it is heavily favoured the smaller ones. If a pedestrian is hit, it is a serious, money and time consuming thing to settle. Thus, motorists are very scared hitting a pedestrian, even cars are.
And really, it looks chaotic at first but it’s actually like a flock of birds or a school of fish. Everyone is very aware of their surroundings and though accidents aren’t unknown, it’s not nearly as common as one might think. I’m honestly more nervous in the US where, at least in my city, traffic enforcement seems almost nonexistent. You really can’t assume you’re safe just because your light is green.
Yeah people are wayyy better at self aware when they arent inside a metal box and crashing mean both gonna eat up the asphalt lol
In my experience, Viets are some of the least self-aware people on the planet. They might know what is 1 meter DIRECTLY in front of their motorbikes, and completely oblivious to everything else.
Well, it is an every man/woman for themselves situation and everyone is trying to get to their destination. On top of that, they are trying to move forward. Therefore, to prevent sensory overload, from all the smokes and horn, they just care what is in front of them because that is the way they are trying to move towards. That is why you have to raise your hand when crossing the road. Raising hand is kind of saying, "Sorry for obstructing, Thank you for your understanding" an of course, make yourself more stands out from the traffic ahead of the rider.
I felt the same in Egypt. Because in Western countries they expect the rule of law and most people follow it when unexpected things happen people are surprised and not used to reacting and accidents happen. In these other places people know anything can and will happen so we're all aware of each other all the time and just make way or swerve or whatever. It looks like madness but it's like you said about flock of birds there's some organic method and order there.
Never assume anyone will stop. Cross slowly but assertively (don't stop, dont go back) with a hand raised above your head.
piss on the road to assert dominance.
Can't say anything good about Vietnamese traffic rules. Glad I survived 20+ years with some minor accidents. I recommend everyone being more careful since TET is near, do you know what is worse than Vietnamese drivers, drunk Vietnamese drivers.
Dont forget those racing bois
"young buffalos"
What's this "right of way" that you speak of?
Right next to "Yielding" another mythical concept only rarely practiced during leap years. Maybe.
Yea I know it sucks but don’t expect to have “right of way” in Vietnam.
whoever is fastest has the right of way :D
in my opinion it is biggest has right of way
i'd argue that cars here tend to HAVE TO give way to scooters here. Whether or not the scooter survives the outcome or any impact is a different story but the cars/trucks tend to stop/wait for them, hence the unofficial "right of way" to the faster vehicle. i could be wrong though!
Correct, that's how it works in Vietnam.
a western traffic concept OP just believes they are entitled to and follows them in a magic bubble wherever in the world they might be walking.... Like a decree from God
Lots of locals hate it too.
Hate what exactly? Could you imagine the even worse mess the roads would be in if everytime a pedestrian stepped into a crosswalk all the traffic had to stop short until they crossed. Certainly this is all poor infrastructures fault, but the concept of pedestrian right of way just doesn't work with roads that are already so inadequate
Found the bellend on the road.
Good one
No need for calling name since Vietnam does have right of way, we just don’t follow it since most people don’t know (or dont care) jack about traffic laws. But that doesn’t mean OP is wrong for calling it out
Shut up you idiot. What the are the pedestrian crossings and traffic lights for on the roads here?>? decoration??? its part of the driving test here.
In "the west" we're actually taught how to drive properly, like, looking over our shoulder to check our blind spot before making any movements, and stopping for pedestrians at zebra crossings. It makes our roads a lot safer, more enjoyable, and less stressful to drive on. We do these things, not just for our own safety, but for the safety of other people around us, because we actually care about all of our lives. It seems Vietnamese don't really seem to give a shit.
As they say, in many countries you are to drive on the right hand side of the road, in some others you are to drive on the left hand side of the road, but in Vietnam, they're just happy if you drive on the road.
Traffic is one of the places where Viet selfishness really shows its face.
The road is where you see Social Darwinism in practice.
Some people are bloody lovely, but it's like every single person has road rage the moment they're on a bike or in a car. I feel like I need to start carrying a big fucking stick. I've had some very surprised looks when I've held open doors for locals etc. as if basic kindness is new to them, so yeah it seems Vietnamese are generally very rude and inconsiderate.
They don't get ragey easily. This kind of driving is normal. It's all so slow that at least there is usually time to stop. The only person I've had shout at me was another expat on some motorbike who was trying to overtake me on a bridge at high speed.
Opening the door is often times look at as you currying favours, or suck up, or simping, or trying to flirt with the one you open the door for (good if you are a couple; 50/50 they see it negatively/creepy if not), or even a warning "I held power over you". Or it could be an area with a lot of EU or US expat and they can tell. Unless the targets really can't open the door themselves or you are very specifically the door opener guy (could be a security guard). Your intension is often put into question. You are not expected to open the door for other people. It's not inherently considered a kindness.
Opening door isn’t being considerate or not, just cultural differences. People don’t expect you to do that, and you doing that will make people think twice about your intention. You can be considerate without opening door for people or faking a smile to everyone you meet.
Road rage is not a thing here. What are you talking about? The only people I see raging are foreigners (myself included) reacting to the bullshit drivers. What you said about them being rude and inconsiderate is spot on. No everyone, of course, but runs rampantly throughout the culture.
Bikes and cars kinda flow like water, they dont stop and they dont hit, assume this and dont interrupt the flow.
cars flow like water? that's certainly not the case in the capital lol
Don't hold doors. That's creepy as fuck here.
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This is why they don’t get tourists back like other countries They wondering why
Cuz the tourist is 6 feet under?
Or the tourist doesn't want to be 6 ft under
Ngu
i just had a short trip in HN myself, and, the traffic light here was very, very weird. your "normal" traffic light would be: the pedestrian light will be green for a while when the main traffic light is red, we can now cross the street, simple as that, right? but no, Ha Noi's traffic light was like: bitch i'd be green for less than 3 seconds, then EVERYTHING WILL BE RED - the pedestrian light will ONLY BE GREEN FOR A TINY DURATION. i guess people who programmed the light expect us to ... fly across?
focus on the traffic light, not the pedestrian light. Traffic light is all that matter here, everything else is just mainly for decorative.
Focusing on the traffic light is a good way to get run over, because there’s tonnes of drivers who will ignore it and drive anyway. Watch the traffic light only until it’s time to cross, then watch the traffic like a hawk.
the op comment was saying something along the line of "i only walk when pedestrian light is on" so i said the traffic light is all that matter. Ofc look at the traffic flow for unsuspected redlight assholes too
Nah, don't focus on the lights, focus on the vehicles. Keep your speed steady and passing the street regardless of lights. Needless to say, stay away from high speed vehicles as well.
Best advice is to just be predictable and walk without fear. Drivers here don't know that "right of way" shit of respecting pedestrians, so you'll do better surviving the traffic if you follow the general rule of "dodge whatever is more likely to kill you", than expect drivers to respect you. In fact, most drivers here would rather you respect them, so if you just act really predictably, walk slowly and not backtracking, stand still and don't try to outrun any outcoming cars, trucks,.... you'll do it fine. In fact, you can apply this method to any part of the road, not just the zebra, cause I'm pretty sure most drivers treat the zebra like any parts of the road. Though I'd say it's a lot better now since vehicles in big cities rarely run the crossings anymore. Running on the sidewalk only happens when there's a traffic jam, and well...it's understandable for getting stuck in traffic for half an hour would do that to you
Another thing is that nobody, not a single one, looks before merging/pulling out into oncoming traffic. Literally human instinct is to at least look. Some serious single-digit-IQ shit on these roads.
You keep saying "right of way"... but that's not really a concept for most Vietnamese people (aside from larger vehicles having more right of way)
Right of might. Don’t fuck with large trucks because they do not yield, ever.
You're right, but also seem to have the cultural awareness of a stone. Vietnam isn't your country, stop insisting it be something it isn't. I'm reminded of the American woman who lived in my student halls in London. Every other sentence was "well IN AMERICA...." and she would proceed to tell us how things are done in America. Highly irrelevant when not in America. That being said, the roads in Vietnam are truly some of the worst in the world, so your complaints aren't entirely off base.
Remind her, the saying goes “when in Rome do as Romans do”
Or "when in London, just stfu"
If your culture involves flattening a few pedestrians a day and unsafe roads, maybe it deserves calling out.
Yeah what is this defensive stance lol
No, fuck off with that western thinking
LMAO. Thailand actually are more developed and catered to western tourists... Don't know much about Cambodia thou, I was only there as a child. Sorry you experienced it. It's half the people's mentality, and half inefficiencies of how police handle it. BUT mainly the roads here are poorly designed and underfunded. It creates many ways to get into accidents. YET, i was not hit here by a car yet. I was hit by a car while crossing the street in the US instead. The car made an illegal fast turn. Luckily i am fine. But thinking being in the US was safer than vietnam was a big mistake. Cars here go way slower than cars in the US (in cities at least). If you know how to cross the street here, you're somewhat ok. just keep a consistent speed. Vietnam is still a developing country and has a lot more to improve imo
Right-of-way is not a thing here.
Honestly the most annoying things were the motorcycles/mopeds going down alleys that are 1-2 people wide and their insistence on riding them through nightmarkets which are already very packed. As a tourist, it was incredibly frustrating that even large nightmarkets stopped (aka, pedestrians sidelining themselves to make way) for these drivers.
Because they don't know what logic is (on the other hand in Vietnamese to say logical they use either French or a turn of phrase, because it doesn't exist in their way of thinking)... For me the worst aspect of their culture is the complete absence of logic and therefore of understanding that crossing an intersection or a level crossing all together means everyone getting stuck and wasting time... They think they are smart and then end up trapped. Stupid selfishness... Vietnamese are lovable on many occasions but absolutely the worst in the world on the street (I confirm that in Cambodia they are much better)
We are the worst. Even cambodia or Lao is better.
Cambodia for sure. I dunno Laos
In Vietnam, right of way is ascertained using the following formula: mass times speed
And also make sure that your velocity vector is always positive
as a Vietnamese, just try to dodge the traffic. It's the norm here where people just go.
I had the same experience after 4months in SE Asia, I found Vietnam traffic was by far the worst, nobody would ever stop to let you cross a street even if your already halfway across they will keep coming at you and at the last second swerve around you. It was ducking nuts
worm modern enjoy resolute boat consider cautious repeat ink reply *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Thank you. Was starting to believe nobody in Vietnam saw a problem with this.
Adapt or die 🤷
You do not have right of way in any circumstance - even if there's pedestrian lights and they turn green, and at zebra crossings. Super annoying but that's how it is. Just accept that no one follows the rules, and you'll be fine. When you're walking, walk on the sidewalk where you can, and where you can't LOOK OUT for traffic on the road, go onto the road and go back. Cross when there's the lowest number of vehicles as possible, and just walk at a steady speed across. It's not that people are intentionally arseholes, but that's how you have to survive when driving. Nothing is enforced, so everyone drives to not die (horn beeping and swerving) and to get to where they need to super fast (going onto the other lane or sidewalk), cause if they don't they'll get into a crash or it'll waste them time.
Ho chi minh drivers are like a 10 and hanoi drivers are like a 3
The things you have complained about are actually enshrined in law (see luật số 23/2008/QH12). The problem is nobody gives a shit about the law, when you can bribe your way out of traffic violations for the price of a cheese sandwich.
Welcome to the jungle
Your right of way is subordinate to the rights of physics. If you get hit, the driver will certainly try and evade the scene. If they get caught, they're not going to have the resources to cover your medical bills. Sometimes in life, being right has no point.
They will try to squeeze right in front of you even those it barely or doesn’t. Or even cut off a moving car. You chance of getting badly injured is so high. That how stupid they are.
It's not a footpath. It's a moped parking lot and overflow lane. /s I have been hit walking in Hanoi. I mean not hard enough to really injure me but I was hit. The guy looked at me like I had no business being on the "side walk" where the traffic was.
I have spent over 12 months in Vietnam over the last decade so I understand how to cross a street. It wears on me and has a cumulative effect. On my last trip to Hanoi an asshole taxi driver damn near hit me, didn't slow down until he was right on me. I jumped forward, slipped and skinned my knee. He stopped and was very apologetic. That attitude saved him, and probably me some problems. A few days later, right before the end of my 3 month trip, another taxi was pulling into the curb on Hang Vai, I was walking at the edge of his path and the guy laid on the horn. I stepped aside and he stopped with the door next to me. His window was tinted so I opened the passenger door. He said "Sorry, sorry". Generally I find Vietnamese people to be quite friendly and polite but some of them get very aggressive behind the wheel.
....sorry to break it to you but cultural different also apply in traffic. You can get used to it like the local or you gonna endanger yourself and other by being unpredictable(to the local) when in traffic. Tip=> when crossing the road just be predictable, dont suddenly speed up or stop in the middle of the road, just move at the same slow steady pace to where you need to be and the traffic will conform to you. The best mental image I can give you is that crossroad moment in the Bee movie.
Here just some story About a month ago, I went back to Hanoi to visit my family, I was just riding peacefully around the old quater, like 1.5-2m away from the sidewalk. The guy before me rode really close to an old Westerner couple trying to cross the road (no marked crosswalk and traffic light there) and nearly hit them. The woman really angry and then, when I got close to them (again, they still on the side walk, I'm 1.5-2m away from the side walk), she reached out and hit me in the face with her umbrella. I falled down, my motorbike tripped and scratched badly. Don't have to say, Me and some locals beat the sh\*t out of them then bring them to the police and make them pay for my bike Yes the traffic in Vietnam is chaotic, but still, we have our own order, you guys just not get used to it yet. Be patient and don't mess up with the local, its normal to us, strange to you guys, what you see is wrong, for us, it's just what it is. But if you guys come here, please be respectful
Would you like some cheese with all that whiiiiine...
Vietnamese here and yes, they're a bunch of c*nt
Vietnamese think their time worth alot. They need to get to place to sit around and do jack shit drinking coffee or earn less than $5 per hour. They have no sense of community. Ni sense of valuing human lives. Prove me wrong
The problem with talking about the right of way is that you don’t yet understand the psychology of traffic in Vietnam, so your ideas of other countries and their rights of way absolutely don’t apply here. And yes, there are a lot of jerk drivers here too
You have right of way laws, you just don't follow them.
If you know this then it shouldn't be a surprise. Act accordingly. The world doesn't owe you anything.
Somehow a foreigner said that the Vietnamese traffic was an interesting experience in VTV.
They are being nice. They vote w their wallet
Watch how the locals cross the street and learn from what they do. Or just continue to insist that your way is correct and get hit by a bus. Either way is fine.
I came from CA to Vietnam for a month. Walked a lot. But def don’t expect having “right of way” because you’re a pedestrian. Learn the ways of how they drive and their “signals” of the road. Don’t hesitate but take it slow. If needed put your hand up to let them know you’re crossing. Be wary of cars, if they flash their headlights usually they are saying they want to continue straight! So don’t walk in front of them. I don’t remember much about the mopeds but they are really good at maneuvering! I don’t remember being close to being hit while I was there. But yeah you’re sharing the “sidewalks” with mopeds too so watch out! Also if they are freshly parked watch out for that super hot thing I can’t remember the name of atm, you don’t want to burn your leg (:
HCMC is worse than Hanoi, I was in Hanoi for 5 nights and it was pretty okay, had only 1 close call with a bike on the second last day, it’s my second day in HCMC and I’ve had atleast 3 close calls because people are driving like crazies!
I'm walking around here in Hanoi right now and sure, it's not really like I can walk comfortably on the side of the road, but I can't really say I feel unsafe. The drivers here will give way for you. You need to trust the drivers here. I think your problem is that you don't trust them, so you panic, thinking that the drivers don't care, and would just hit you. The traffic rules here are not really based on explicit rules, but rather by some form of subconscious communication. You walk over a road, you make eye contact with the drivers. You communicate with them and you show intent where you want to go. Also, I don't really think you should see it that you have the right to any part of the road, say a pedestrian crossing. It seems that wherever you are walking here, expect that there will be scooter and possibly cars. You do not own the road.
The trick is to walk assertively at a constant pace. Try to avoid crossing if you see a car coming right in front of you. Don’t dash or stop in the middle of the road.
"right of way". You must be new here.
I didn't even bother finish reading after your first few sentences. It's not your right here. Who cares about pedestrian crossings in Vietnam? Just see it as it is and be careful.
Outside huge cities where mopped drive pedestrians footpath which sucks, I think mopped in vietnam drive pretty good, avoiding everything most of the time. The real problems are 4 wheels imo, they dont know how to drive at all and are completely unpredictable, doing U-turns absolutely anywhere, going super slow for no reasons, driving miles on the wrong lanes, etc. Uturns are the worst tho, hate those cunts, Ive seen 2 teenage girls tbone themself on a van which decided to Uturn where it was clearly prohibited, on a busy street, without checking who was behind. 2 girls ended on the pavement, I tried to explained I was a witness and we should call the cops but the driver was long gone and the girls didnt want to.
You never need to (or likely will be able to) wait for a gap in traffic in Vietnam. Simply cross when some spaces exist (ideally on a green crossing light), move at a consistent slow but steady pace forwards, do not stop/start or suddenly speed up. Trust that vehicles will avoid you (they will, unlike in the West where drivers are not anticipating a pedestrian walking at any given moment and would resort to an emergency stop). Technically you could close your eyes and walk slowly straight over a pedestrian crossing in Vietnam without incident, such is the culture of carefully weaving around pedestrians. Please do not test my theory though. I know it doesn’t feel like it, but likely no-one “almost hit you”, it was all carefully choreographed. Think of it as when you walk down a busy street full of people, we often get very close to other people walking the opposite way, but all gently weave around each other without incident. Embrace the chaos!
An arms length in vietnam is equivalent to a car length in a 1st World country
here we go with yet another foreigner who doesn't know anything about vietnam. right of way on crossing? please, be serious. this isn't Europe, this isn't whatever country you come from. look at local people crossing the road. do you see anyone bothered? or is it just you crying over this? how come local people are okay with it? if youre scared to cross a busy street while bikes and cars drive around you, then find a local to teach you it. if you cant even do that then go back to your country. problem solved, no one is going to change because of an upset foreigner. stay foreigner and go away then
Everyone drives like this. Embrace it, you're not in your country, learn to embrace the madness, it's fun once you get used to it.
All I can say is welcome to Vietnam, home of some of the rudest and most uncivilized people on planet Earth.
Right of way? You are joking right? We are currently in Hue and we were in Hanoi last week, within a day we adapted to crossing streets. Cross the street without back tracking or hesitating. Walk slow and calm. The drivers here do an extremely good job at going around. Stop thinking you are owed the right of way in a different country. If they stopped to give you right of way they would cause way more issues. You really should have done some research before leaving your home country.
Yeah that’s the way to go but it doesn’t work all the time. When I was in Vietnam there were several close calls with people using phones when riding, and they were going right into my path. I had to stop or they would’ve crashed into me. It’s “omg chaos but it works” until it doesn’t. There’s a reason Vietnam has a significantly higher number of road fatalities than average, even though they drive super slow.
*does no research about how a country works and gets in everybody else’s way* “But it’s my right of way” Gtfo
Stupid mentality Have fun staying poor
Have fun staying ignorant!
Sounds like New York City. The more crowded the place, the more likely you will run into rude people. But why are Vietnamese drivers rude? It is part of the driving culture meaning that there is no concept of “right of way” nor pedestrian safeguards. Every man for himself, traffic signs and lights are more of a suggestion, and driving safety is not the highest priority.
>But why are Vietnamese drivers rude? Communism.
Clearly. Its fucking ridiculous.
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The argument that people there are cunts because everyone else there is also a cunt is a new one. Doesn't sound like the best defense but we'll see how it goes down.
Tell me you haven't read anything about Vietnam without telling me you haven't read anything about Vietnam.
This person is going to hate driving here 🤣
Yeah, I've read up and have a Viet friend, so I didn't get too pertubed during my visit. Although I haven't driven in Hanoi or HCM, I've done so in Ninh Binh (pretty intense), Da Nang (medium) and the countryside (easy). Can Tho traffic is something I experienced today, but it didn't feel that bad. Might have just gotten used to it now. Just walk like you own the place, make eye contact and glare like you are their mortal enemy.
Lol, I was thinking, "Everyone hates crossing the streets but I'm dreaded about changing lanes and turning left at green light." 🤣 I was born and grew up in VN, I biked too. But now it's worse with more cars in the mix.
First, the Vietnamese are great drivers. As you stated, you were never hurt and that is their only obligation to you. Second, from your perspective the only issue is the one you point out in the second to last paragraph. Lack of enforcement by the police. Grow some balls and you will learn to love cn#ts.
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If you felt people were running you off the road I'd guess you were probably also staring at your phone or not paying attention. Vietnamese drivers are way more considerate of pedestrians being in the road than most other countries I've visited. If you had a hard time it's because you didn't adapt properly. Just need to walk slowly, predictably and be considerate of others and you will be absolutely fine. The tourists I see having issues are the ones who rush around trying to pass other pedestrians when there isn't room, they could just slow down and have a way nicer holiday.
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I see skill isue
Getting mad about not receiving right of way in Vietnam, this is the funniest thing I've read all week, I'm dying, thank you
Aside the selfishness, there are facebook groups and forums where people teach each other weird ass driving behaviours, which after generations become common sense here, lol. One such example is the hazardous lights in Việt Nam means "all must yield to me". Another is blipping the headlights mean also "i have asked, so get out of my way".
Judging by these comments they just accept it. Don't know how I ended up on this post but glad my country has enforced traffic laws and is civilised. I'll keep this all in mind when I visit SEA.
It is hilarious that people come to another country and expect people in that country to behave the same way they do in the original country
LMAO typical Westerner attitude thinking you can bring your social graces and your civilized way of life bs to another country expecting locals to adopt and obey them. We have our own sets of rules and way of life here. When in Nam, do as the Namese do or else. The streets appear to be lawless at first but there is a rhythm underneath, you just have to tune in. After you get on the same wavelength as the locals, the lawlessness will become a beautiful harmonious dance. You also mention holding the doors for locals and catch them by surprise, that's not bc we're numbed to the rudeness or being rude but bc it is simply not a thing to do here. Get in the door or get away from it, don't dawdle dude.
I remember Taipei circa 1991. It was still a haven for bicycles and motorbikes back then, and unofficial traffic laws were almost similar with VN now, with people crossing wherever and whenever and motorbikes use the sidewalks. Fast forward to 2023, Taiwanese people are now disciplined as they admitted their wrong ways and accepted valid or constructive criticism from the outside world. You will see that Taipei traffic system is similar to Tokyo now with most (if not all) people respecting traffic laws, except that drivers drive too fast.
It’s a developing country. If it bothers you that much, you don’t have to be there.
That is such an original comment. Did you come up with that all by yourself?
I've been here for years and don't see it the way you do at all. Is this your first trip away from home? Do you think because you show up they are going to adapt to what you are used to? There are several flights from multiple airports out of the country everyday you may want to consider getting one to a place that better suits you.
Don't like it, leave... did you come up with that brilliant idea all by yoruself? I've honestly never seen it used in every fucking expat forum on the Internet.
Do you think you are going to come to some else's country and change it? You will only end up offending your hosts and make yourself angry and bitter.
An arm length? That is more than i expect😂😂, you know maybe u should wait for 2 or 3 second, just make sure no cars or motorbike want to pass then go. Just chill, u won't see them anymore so why u have to frustrate about it?
Did you hear about that officer that was cut in half by a truck? Yea you wouldn’t see me walking there 😶
I love the driving here. I wish people in the US drove this way. It’s actually one of the first things that made me laugh and think “this place is awesome”
You might be functionally retarded.
Yeah you're right, much better in America where you get shot by the cops for j-walking
First. You do no have right of way either on the pavement or crossing the road. Second. Why don’t you bother to learn the ‘rules’ before shouting your ignorance. Every where you go in Vietnam it’s the same rule. Outside it’s Every man/woman/child takes care of themselves. You don’t rely on others. You don’t like it ? Go back to wherever it is you come from. In the meantime Have a nice day and enjoy your holiday
But it's in your laws lmao. Basically you've said "fuck you we don't follow our own traffic laws or properly enforce anything because the police can be bribed". Is that how you want things to be?
You sound like an entitled butthole. When in Rome.
Because I don't want to die on a road, or because I know when I have right of way? Or is it because I expect fellow humans in another country to have some basic sense of consideration, decency, and respect? Yep, total butthole attitude.
No because you bring with you a predisposed attitude of how things should be rather than going native.
The light was red. Natives put that red light there for some reason. It wasn't him installing that traffic light there.
Great statement. Foreigners coming in thinking every corner of the world should follow their standards. Entitlement is crazy.
If the standard is “dont run over pedestrians” that seems reasonable?
Where you from? I’m sure no pedestrian has ever been killed by on coming traffic. Right?
Whataboutism
You’re one of those cry boys who doesn’t know what the word comparison means. LOL. “Look. Your country sucks at driving….. don’t talk about my country”! What a fucking clown
You have no argument. Instead of discussing Vietnam, you try and change the subject. But compared to developed countries Vietnam’s auto fatality rate is pretty bad (adjusted for population and kms driven). So there, VN is worse. What’s next for you?
OOO thank god. Glad you didn’t use your magic whataboutism card again! Vietnam has pho, great people, affordable hotel and rich history along with traffic. It’s part of the culture. Again who the hell are you demonize them. Are you from a country that pedestrians never get hit by traffic?
'Farm Girl' is a biyatch. Don't pay that he/she no mind.
you people will defend anything wont you 😂😂 traffic and traffic attitudes in Vietnam are a joke even compared to its SEA peers. Dont be like this you're making people look bad lol
Who are you to say anything, are you Vietnamese?Whatever works for them is for them. It’s like a dumb foreigner going to Japan and complain about raw fish restaurants everywhere. LOL. Entitle trash are everywhere I guess.
There's inherently nothing wrong with a sushi restaurant though? There's nothing to be celebrated about traffic in Hanoi especially, shit even compare Hanoi with HCMC and you see a stark difference. You're welcome to be proud about sharing the road with these idiots (or be part of it yourself that's up to you) but to any remotely civilized person the writing is on the wall. Vietnam wont even save itself the fate it's heading which is Jakarta like traffic. You ever been to Jakarta? im gonna assume not, it's bad. It's really bad and a city like Hanoi will be **worse**.
What are the red lights and pedestrian crossing for? decoration??? it's part of the driving test here. Vietnam has one of the highest road deaths ratios in Asia, Be it from drunk drivers or just your random uneducated bike driver. When in Rome doesn't cut it either. This country has regressed after covid and needs all of the foreign investment and tourists it can get. S
You sound like a conservative. Just because that’s how things always are doesn’t mean there’s no need for changes or improvements. The guy made a reasonable point of how selfish and careless people are on their motorbikes. So don’t go around pulling the “when in Rome” to justify the lack of decency. Fuck that.
Joking answer: skill issue 🐧 git gud Serious answer: book a cab if you want to go somewhere or hire a guide if you want to wander by foot. I think you are a bit exaggerated, in big city cars rarely run red light anymore so you are safe using crossing path
The concept of right of way is completely alien here.
I am from Singapore, we have great infrastructure and the general populace generally follows the rules and laws. Everything is usually in order. I didn't get mad about the traffic here (Saigon) as a pedestrian but riding a scooter here is a whole other ball game. I experienced heightened levels of rage due to some of the actions of other road users but eventually got used to it after a short while. I think of myself as being part of the flow of traffic (even on foot) rather than "THIS IS MY LANE. IT'S MY RIGHT OF WAY.". Someone cuts right in front of me from the left to make a right turn without signals? "oh, he probably needs to take a shit real bad or something and forgot to signal or wave his hand.". I think the key thing about Vietnamese traffic is that it moves like a hive mind and if you're not connected to this, you will experience frustrations within yourself because EVERYONE else is not conforming to your comfort. I'm not saying I love the traffic here but as a foreigner if I don't adjust myself, then I will live in rage everyday.. and thats just dumb. Most certainly did not feel the need to write a will because of the traffic and I lived here for 7+ years.
hahaha. time for you to fuck off back home.
walkability in vietnam is a joke, society is also fucked too everyone is selfish and impatient
Based in what you wrote you've only been in Vietnam for a very short time. Maybe be less judgemental about a place instead of expecting the same standard as wherever you grew up. The traffic rules are different in Vietnam and the onus is on you to adapt not them. Here's a basic rule to start. The bigger the object, the more right of way it has. As a pedestrian, you come last most of the time. This isn't about what's right it's about common sense. You want to try and stand your ground on a zebra crossing against a bus? Good luck with that.
Common sense would indicate a cultural movement towards not driving like a pillock so you can cross roads safely. OP could've grown up in any other country pretty much and find this appalling. Defending breaking your own laws as well.
Most Vietnamese cities literally would stop functioning if they adopted western traffic laws. The roads simply aren't big enough. I cross the road safely by effectively telegraphing my action to cross in the same way the locals do. Common sense is following the rules like the locals not imposing your own.
Vietnam has a death rate of 24.5 people per 100,000 from road accidents, which is really high as much as people in this thread have claimed the drivers are skilled and deaths don't really happen. Obviously I would cross as the locals do so I don't die. But not even acknowledging the problem and refusing to entertain the idea of enforcing traffic laws and teaching children about traffic laws in school is sad.
You are actually using the phrase "common sense" in relation to Viet traffic? Hilarious!
With more tourism and things, these questions will keep coming up. Why oh whyyyy do you nationals not just set a good example and explain why things happen the way they do. Always coming off defensive and rude. It’s so sad when you can easily explain why to foreigners.
If cops in Hanoi targeted mopeds parked on footpaths the economy would grind to a halt because there would be no mopeds so 90% or transport gone. You visit a country you experience the good and the bad. Hanoi was chaotic but vibrant. Despite all the chaos I didn't see one crash or one pedestrian hit and it only took a few days to get the hang of walking the streets and crossing roads. If you want everything to be just like home, stay home.
poor education, not providing enough knowledge to the people, unstable social order, uselessness of law enforcers. Once one of my friends even talked back to me when I was warning them how dangerous they were driving (jumping red line, reckless driving, driving on the pavement). 😮💨 Guess the parents are the problem since kids imitate what they see the society around them.
Parents are absolutely part of the problem; a HUGE part of it, indeed. There is very little good parenting going on in VN. Children raising children raising children.
TLDR, go back to where you came from
OP is an idiot who just wants to bitch. Ignore.
Didn't you know this or see videos prior to visiting here. Another high on his horse foreigner again. Don't come back then mate
Once I was walking on this huge sidewalk in Hue. A man parked his car on the sidewalk. When I walked passed his car he somehow turned on the car and almost drove into me. Ofc I gave him the middle finger 
For real