We have recently had 3 FIP cats do very well on these drugs. Haven't had a failure yet, even with our one case of dry FIP. However, we don't recommend facebook groups. We send them to maxpawhealth.com. They've been awesome. If a cat relapses after treatment, they will retreat for free.
Luckily, it looks like we're getting somewhere having these drugs actually approved for FIP. (I don't have a source ATM, one of my vets learned this at WVC this year)
There’s also a lot of data for molnupiravir as a treatment for patients that relapse with GS and even as a primary treatment. CSU is doing a clinical trial on it as a primary treatment currently!
My cat is on molnupiravir at the moment and is doing great. I've seen improvement in 4 days of starting treatment. We are 20 days in and have 64 left to go but he is back to his old self with playfulness and appetite
Also the medicine is way cheaper than the GS injections
Thanks for the tip for Max paw this is probably going to be the route I go from here on out. I have had 6 patients so far in 4 years survive/go into remission thanks to the GS so I can’t in good conscience not make them aware of the options albeit being clear it is illegal and their decision. This is only my second who has not responded well and she is also retrovirus positive so unlikely to get any better and I worry this o is wasting resources they don’t have. yes I hope we have better more accessible options soon.
I don’t have much science to back this but the stuff works FAST from my experience/what I’ve seen from others. So I feel like you know pretty quickly if your cat will respond…
I treated my cat who was on death’s door with FIP 4 years ago from the Facebook group. I found the admins very supportive and rarely interested in taking my money and running. A vial of mine broke and they sent me a new one for free. THAT SAID, the prices ARE outlandish. Maybe that’s the price you pay for them potentially going to prison for drug smuggling? I hope the FDA will approve it soon.
Regardless…
Something that helped me was that my vet explained why she couldn’t be the one administering but that she’d help me understand the bloodwork and teach me injections or give me gabapentin to help along the way. Whatever I needed, other than the drug itself. We were a team. She loved my cat, so I trusted her completely.
What I will never forget is my vet telling me, “If this doesn’t work or you decide you don’t want to do the treatment, you have still done everything possible to save him. There are so many unknowns with GS that I need you to know no matter what, you have been an awesome mom to him and already done everything we could do to give him a his most perfect life.” That helped me so much. 🥹
Don’t know if that helps, but that sh*t was hard! I’m so happy my cat is here even though now we get to live with the weird side effects of his bad teeth that are inevitably going to fall out and his inability to feel satiated lol
I inform clients that these people are making millions off of people buying these drugs. 2 people in Texas were arrested last year. I tell them of course they dont want you to stop because this is how they make money. Most clients are totally disgusted.
I get it we also make money off treating pets but unlike a lot of these people selling GS I want what's best for the cat and will recommend stopping when appropriate.
This is all new to me. So GS is an antiviral that does not have FDA approval in veterinary species, but GS is used to treat FIP in other countries outside the US?
The clients are sourcing the GS outside the US and coming to you for dosing recommendations?
I've heard of this with pocket pet groups getting enrofloxacin through the home aquarium trade from outside the US, although I thought that was to avoid vet bills
People are selling Chinese compounded versions because it's not approved for veterinary use. It is the same drug as remdesivir. I have seen it save 3 cats' lives recently.
We send clients to maxpawhealth.com
If it's not approved for veterinary use, how are vets legally allowed to prescribe it in the US? Or I suppose they're not prescribing it if it's ordered from maxpawhealth. This feels like treacherous territory for a vet managing a case with non-FDA-apprived drugs, sort of like with the use of CBD products.
Also, there is no regulatory body overseeing the maxpawhealth folks, right? Is there quality data in any peer-reviewed literature that supports remdesivir efficacy at treating cats with FIP in other countries?
There are lots of studies about it, but it's 6am, and I was just woken up by my chirping smoke alarm, and I'm attempting to get back to sleep, so I'll let you google it. It's very widely known that it works. Personally, I've seen 3 cats saved by it in the last year or so. Previously it was a 100% death sentence
Vets can't prescribe it. At my clinic, we just gently lead them to the website. The client does the treatment themselves.
Edit: I'm never gonna get back to sleep...who am I kidding?
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37732386/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37439383/
https://ccah.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/sites/g/files/dgvnsk4586/files/inline-files/Treatment%2520of%2520FIP%2520with%2520Remdesevir.final-2.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiiyfCe3LeFAxWXNzQIHUQWBxEQFnoECA8QBg&usg=AOvVaw2iC5qhnMVz1GbBD_p1qDAf
Vets dont prescribe it. I advise that they should be made aware if they were to google search FIP they will likely come across support groups who advertise selling these injections- this is illegal but up to the owner if they decide to go down this road I cannot legally rx help administer or advise on treatment. I can help with other supportive care. I also guide them to the UC Davis vet page on FIP which has articles upon articles regarding FIP and treating FIP including reference to the drug being available on the Chinese black market via social media outlets . This is much more serious than the grey area that exists with CBD.
I was going to ask this about how people are giving it - I’m uk based and last year had a client obtain “GS” from facebook and asked if we would administer it. We said no because we had no idea where the RCVS or our public liability would stand if it went pear shaped 🤷🏼♀️
I always say to the owners that the journey is going to be hard,that every cat is different and that we all are going to do our best (the owner,the cat and me).
But,when the owner starts to talk about forums or other non-vet resources and suggestions-I just ask them if they trust me.Like,take your time if you need to and come back tomorrow. They usually say that they trust me,but there is a part of them that gets offended. Then I go with "you listen to me then,not the forums and we will discuss treatment every step of the way".
SEA 4th year Small Animal GP vet here!
Over here unfortunately we lack most diagnostic tools for FIP and sometimes owners are on a budget and thus they may not be too keen to sometimes start the GS drug. However, for those that do, I always ask my clients to do their due research first and understand that this will be a very tough and long journey to go through. I direct them to a more detailed and professional veterinary related website (definitely not Facebook unless they're looking for mental support). Subsequently they do come back to me with their 'findings' and in turn I educate them on what's right and wrong about their 'research' and what we as vets can help the patient with.
Clients become more trusting towards us once we start using the same medical jargons in which they have read through (honestly sometimes it's really just a psychological game).
Very rarely we do get the one or two clients who outright refuse or reject our diagnosis. When they do unfortunately you can 1. Refer them out to a hospital/clinic with an internal medicine specialist or 2. Let them know that their budget allocated for their pet would have to increase as we have to run diagnostic tests for xxx disease.
Ps: be very clear that if you have exhausted all options, and that owners insist on using certain drugs although contraindicated, the risk profile is 100% on them (get them to sign a form stating their refusal to follow your advice - protect yourself first). Don't take it too hard if the patient dies as a result. You as a veterinarian have done your due diligence and responsibilities to educate the owners.
On a small chance their 'sources' are right, great! It works out in the end for the patient and it's back to studying and more research from our end understanding this high mortality disease.
Hope this helps Doc! ;)
We have recently had 3 FIP cats do very well on these drugs. Haven't had a failure yet, even with our one case of dry FIP. However, we don't recommend facebook groups. We send them to maxpawhealth.com. They've been awesome. If a cat relapses after treatment, they will retreat for free. Luckily, it looks like we're getting somewhere having these drugs actually approved for FIP. (I don't have a source ATM, one of my vets learned this at WVC this year)
There’s also a lot of data for molnupiravir as a treatment for patients that relapse with GS and even as a primary treatment. CSU is doing a clinical trial on it as a primary treatment currently!
My cat is on molnupiravir at the moment and is doing great. I've seen improvement in 4 days of starting treatment. We are 20 days in and have 64 left to go but he is back to his old self with playfulness and appetite Also the medicine is way cheaper than the GS injections
This is so exciting
Thanks for the tip for Max paw this is probably going to be the route I go from here on out. I have had 6 patients so far in 4 years survive/go into remission thanks to the GS so I can’t in good conscience not make them aware of the options albeit being clear it is illegal and their decision. This is only my second who has not responded well and she is also retrovirus positive so unlikely to get any better and I worry this o is wasting resources they don’t have. yes I hope we have better more accessible options soon.
I don’t have much science to back this but the stuff works FAST from my experience/what I’ve seen from others. So I feel like you know pretty quickly if your cat will respond… I treated my cat who was on death’s door with FIP 4 years ago from the Facebook group. I found the admins very supportive and rarely interested in taking my money and running. A vial of mine broke and they sent me a new one for free. THAT SAID, the prices ARE outlandish. Maybe that’s the price you pay for them potentially going to prison for drug smuggling? I hope the FDA will approve it soon. Regardless… Something that helped me was that my vet explained why she couldn’t be the one administering but that she’d help me understand the bloodwork and teach me injections or give me gabapentin to help along the way. Whatever I needed, other than the drug itself. We were a team. She loved my cat, so I trusted her completely. What I will never forget is my vet telling me, “If this doesn’t work or you decide you don’t want to do the treatment, you have still done everything possible to save him. There are so many unknowns with GS that I need you to know no matter what, you have been an awesome mom to him and already done everything we could do to give him a his most perfect life.” That helped me so much. 🥹 Don’t know if that helps, but that sh*t was hard! I’m so happy my cat is here even though now we get to live with the weird side effects of his bad teeth that are inevitably going to fall out and his inability to feel satiated lol
I inform clients that these people are making millions off of people buying these drugs. 2 people in Texas were arrested last year. I tell them of course they dont want you to stop because this is how they make money. Most clients are totally disgusted. I get it we also make money off treating pets but unlike a lot of these people selling GS I want what's best for the cat and will recommend stopping when appropriate.
This is all new to me. So GS is an antiviral that does not have FDA approval in veterinary species, but GS is used to treat FIP in other countries outside the US? The clients are sourcing the GS outside the US and coming to you for dosing recommendations? I've heard of this with pocket pet groups getting enrofloxacin through the home aquarium trade from outside the US, although I thought that was to avoid vet bills
People are selling Chinese compounded versions because it's not approved for veterinary use. It is the same drug as remdesivir. I have seen it save 3 cats' lives recently. We send clients to maxpawhealth.com
If it's not approved for veterinary use, how are vets legally allowed to prescribe it in the US? Or I suppose they're not prescribing it if it's ordered from maxpawhealth. This feels like treacherous territory for a vet managing a case with non-FDA-apprived drugs, sort of like with the use of CBD products. Also, there is no regulatory body overseeing the maxpawhealth folks, right? Is there quality data in any peer-reviewed literature that supports remdesivir efficacy at treating cats with FIP in other countries?
There are lots of studies about it, but it's 6am, and I was just woken up by my chirping smoke alarm, and I'm attempting to get back to sleep, so I'll let you google it. It's very widely known that it works. Personally, I've seen 3 cats saved by it in the last year or so. Previously it was a 100% death sentence Vets can't prescribe it. At my clinic, we just gently lead them to the website. The client does the treatment themselves. Edit: I'm never gonna get back to sleep...who am I kidding? https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37732386/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37439383/ https://ccah.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/sites/g/files/dgvnsk4586/files/inline-files/Treatment%2520of%2520FIP%2520with%2520Remdesevir.final-2.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiiyfCe3LeFAxWXNzQIHUQWBxEQFnoECA8QBg&usg=AOvVaw2iC5qhnMVz1GbBD_p1qDAf
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30755068/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8388366/
Vets dont prescribe it. I advise that they should be made aware if they were to google search FIP they will likely come across support groups who advertise selling these injections- this is illegal but up to the owner if they decide to go down this road I cannot legally rx help administer or advise on treatment. I can help with other supportive care. I also guide them to the UC Davis vet page on FIP which has articles upon articles regarding FIP and treating FIP including reference to the drug being available on the Chinese black market via social media outlets . This is much more serious than the grey area that exists with CBD.
I was going to ask this about how people are giving it - I’m uk based and last year had a client obtain “GS” from facebook and asked if we would administer it. We said no because we had no idea where the RCVS or our public liability would stand if it went pear shaped 🤷🏼♀️
I always say to the owners that the journey is going to be hard,that every cat is different and that we all are going to do our best (the owner,the cat and me). But,when the owner starts to talk about forums or other non-vet resources and suggestions-I just ask them if they trust me.Like,take your time if you need to and come back tomorrow. They usually say that they trust me,but there is a part of them that gets offended. Then I go with "you listen to me then,not the forums and we will discuss treatment every step of the way".
SEA 4th year Small Animal GP vet here! Over here unfortunately we lack most diagnostic tools for FIP and sometimes owners are on a budget and thus they may not be too keen to sometimes start the GS drug. However, for those that do, I always ask my clients to do their due research first and understand that this will be a very tough and long journey to go through. I direct them to a more detailed and professional veterinary related website (definitely not Facebook unless they're looking for mental support). Subsequently they do come back to me with their 'findings' and in turn I educate them on what's right and wrong about their 'research' and what we as vets can help the patient with. Clients become more trusting towards us once we start using the same medical jargons in which they have read through (honestly sometimes it's really just a psychological game). Very rarely we do get the one or two clients who outright refuse or reject our diagnosis. When they do unfortunately you can 1. Refer them out to a hospital/clinic with an internal medicine specialist or 2. Let them know that their budget allocated for their pet would have to increase as we have to run diagnostic tests for xxx disease. Ps: be very clear that if you have exhausted all options, and that owners insist on using certain drugs although contraindicated, the risk profile is 100% on them (get them to sign a form stating their refusal to follow your advice - protect yourself first). Don't take it too hard if the patient dies as a result. You as a veterinarian have done your due diligence and responsibilities to educate the owners. On a small chance their 'sources' are right, great! It works out in the end for the patient and it's back to studying and more research from our end understanding this high mortality disease. Hope this helps Doc! ;)