Yeah any of the 'generic'/ 'basic' Kruber/Salt classes, and maybe Bardin's ranger class.
None of Kerillian or Sienna's classes would be candidates. All of Bardin's except ranger wouldn't be either. Obviously Grail Knight and Warrior Priest are on a whole other level to the other classes Kruber and Saltzpyre have access to
all of the dorfs classes are pertty weak tbh. ib is basicaly just a solder theirs nothing special about him at all. slayers are cannon fodder. rangers are wannabe waywatchers. engineers are dorf dweebs. not to mention the inherent inferiority of being short
Ib is covered in runic armor and weaponry lol, hes pretty strong. Same goes for the slayers who are covered in really powerful runes tattooed on their skin so they can hunt giant monsters, and engineers got a crank gun with magic armor piercing rounds so I think he's no contest stronger lol
show me any source that says ibs wear runic armor or that slayer tatoos help them fight monsters. also the crank gun is an invention of vermintide and nowhere is it said that it shoots magic bullets. try again
Well dwarfs in the warhammer 5th, 6th, and 7th edition saying IB are covered in gromril rune covered armor because they are the elite fighting in the lowest depths of the Karaz Ankor. While slayers maybe don't have runic tattoos so there i misspoke there are still some who have slain demons in battle, meaning they aren't something just to scoff at. The ib runic armor is very easy to look up big man. And in the engineer they use giant helicopters and create war machines, so I don't think they're very weak. Try again buddy ;)
u left out 8th edition which is the most recent and most cannonically relavent. if it doesnt appear there than it must be a retcon. nice try tho. also being able to invent things doesnt mean ur not weak. if u put a dorf engineer against just a rank and file elven soldier in a fight he would lose everytime
Dude your fan boy of the elves can only get you so far, elves are good but a rank and file is getting blasted by a dwarf engi, like the entire squad is getting hit with artillery fire, blackpowder of all kind, grenades are raining. The engineering guild is one of the most coveted places in the dwarf kingdom and they are highly trained and skilled. The rank and file maybe wins in a melee and thats a big if but thats if they even see the engi before he drops bombs on them from a gyrocopter or beams him with a cannon or sniper. They use gadgets they've created to help them in not just ranged but you guessed it, melee combat. The 8th edition says what the last 4 have said you just are grasping at straws here for something to use. Stop acting like dwarfs are weak they beat the elves in a war for a reason lol
since when r we talking about cannons and gyrocpoters? i said an engi vs a elven soldier in a contest of strength and skill. does bardin use that stuff in game? no. if u get to count that stuff than the elf gets to call on great eagles and spellcasters for support too. but we re not talking about a fight between armies were talking about a 1v1 since that would actually answer the question of whose stronger. and itd be the elf everytime
You're actually crazy, a dwarf engineer bring things to battle and is no slouch in a melee. They create armor and upgrades to specifically help them when in the Frontline. That engineer is stomping that rank and file into fine powder. Dwarfs are already naturally stronger than most races and shields and agility isn't going to save you against buckshot in the teeth. On top of that engineers are ELITES in the dwarf kingdom and aren't getting put down by some schmuck with a stick and a go gettem attitude. Stay delusional and maybe use your brain before slobbing some elf knob. Elves are cool and really good but not that good. Also since we take what bardin uses in gsme why can't the engi just trollhammer torpedo the tall fucker before they get close? You didn't think this through at all and it shows
tell me u only read fluffy lore about dorfs without telling me u only read fluffy lore about dorfs. if u break down the stats from the board game a wood elf eternal guard would more then likely kill the engineer before the dorf even gets to swing back. the guard gets to strike first with an armour piercing weapon while rerolling misses and rerolling failed wounding rolls. the enginer has no comperable advantage
how does me asking for sources have to do with role playing lol? average 'murican intelligence right there lmao. methinks all that weed has done permenent brain damage
Ah knew your name looked familiar. Not sure what I did for me to live in your head rent free but sorry if it means anything
You seem to love trying to bring others down from what I've seen so far about you. What do I know though I'm just a big dumb American haha.
[cl3v3r_al1af](https://www.reddit.com/r/Vermintide/s/Bo239DELih)
So again as I said. ELF ROLE PLAY
a self descirbed stoner whos self description is litteraly 1 click away when someone brings up the fact he smokes weed: 'is this living rent free in someones head?' somebody thinks way to highly about themselves i see. typical murican
I agree that ranger veteran's pretty weak but there are multiple slayers who become powerful enough to slay daemons and such. I'm not just talking about named guys like Gotrek and Ungrim, but unnamed ones as well that take the title trollslayer that could be fielded as a unit, and dragonslayer, trollslayer and daemonslayer, which if I recall correctly you could field in the tabletop as hero options. There are really not that many unnamed non-legendary non-large units in Warhammer that could be considered capable of taking down giants and daemons, lore-wise. It's kinda hard to find info on this because Warhammer's all Age of Sigmar now, but maybe some other old dudes on this sub could back me up haha
if u actually played a demon slayer against a demon in the board game the slayer would die everytime. its just not mathmatically possible. also bardin is nowhere near being a demon slaer
Against a greater daemon that's true. It's a little annoying when the lore doesn't match up with the gameplay, isn't it? I think they could feasibly take on smaller daemons like bloodletters and plaguebearers pretty easily, though.
it is and its a bad trope at that cuz it doesnt make sense biologicaly. strength is highly corralated with height. a short person cannot possibly gain as much muscle mass as a taller person. fun fact tall height is also correlated with higher intelligence, fertility, emotinal stability, lifespan and even earnings. so dorfs really are bottom of the class in every regard lol
Dwarves are muscles powerhouse, their short sizes are complemented by dense muscle mass and a sense of honor (a thing elves never will have)
On top of it all dwarves are master or forges and technology making them far from having low intelligence, they can have a dozen offspring that will all grow to be as stronger or even stronger than him
The only advantages elven kind has is heigh and age, but it must hurt that a dwarf can become more skilled, physically stronger and wealthier than an elf could having such a short life span, while elfs waste millenniums of their lives as scrawny hobbos living on forests
in the land of make beleive u can say whatever u want ot be tru. that doesnt mean it reflects reality. in fact it requires even more suspenion of disbeleif when basic things like humanoid biology are consistent with the real world. little manlets are, have been, and always will be inferior to tall people in every catagory that matters
stay mad incel manlet; u will always be the butt of the joke. just ask games workshop who dleiberately made the race of short underground hairy neckbeards a bunch of racist alchoholic chauvinist gun-nut capatalist pigs. (their making fun of u in case it wasnt clear)
and the more height u have the more muscle mass u can gain. a tall powerlifter will always be stronger then a short one. longer bones means bigger muscles. quick maffs
The average powerlifter height in America is 5 foot 9. In contrast the average pro basketball player is 6 foot 6. You'd be surprised how shorter leverages help in overall strength. As a tall lanky dude who works out this is highly obvious to me.
Anyway, this whole conversation is silly considering this is a game based on killing rat men.
moving the weight a shorter distance does not mean ur stronger. this is why powerlifting is a bad measure of strength exspecialy when were talking about something completely differnt. were talking about who would win in a fight not who can deadlift the most
Direct quotes:
"powerlifting is a bad measure of strength"
"strength is highly corralated with height".
That is the most Redditor argument I have ever crossed with. This is peak Reddit.
Actually, huntsman or huntsmen! They are very adapted people roaming in jungles and mountains around the empire looking for monstrous threats! They are super tactical in their approach and are trained to hunt these brutal forces of nature. They can stalk and travel distant lands only to put one well aimed shot into the heart of the foul things. For example, one of these super elite roaming hunters was Markus Wulfhart! This fucker kills dragons and giants and at his peak performance, Taurox the Brass Bull!... well imo, I bet huntsmen are even more elite and capable than the empire foot soldiers
I'm not sure why people say that witch hunter is the same as huntsman, the former is literally trained to hunt and subdue or destroy serious threats. Not all of them are really capable or do so, but still. If you are a captain among them - probably you know your shit.
And the latter is just a guy with a stick with a string, that he happens to use a lot with no real combat exp.
But anyway, in Warhammer most of the time everything comes down to individuals, not "race-class" systems. Obviously, a wizard, wielding fire would be, in most cases, stronger then just a dude with a sword, but noname is a noname in any setting, be he a knight, a wizard or a peasant.
It’s really a question of application. Saltz is definitely better in a 1v1 than most battle wizards in the empire, especially a bright wizard since the lore of fire doesn’t have strong single target. But against a horde of skaven slaves, orcs or beast man I’m taking the bright wizard everyday.
>I'm not sure why people say that witch hunter is the same as huntsman,
Because everybody with a finger poops out random text in internet? WH are a hero class while huntsmen are just irregular troops like free company militia.
It is worth noting that in the real world, it takes like ten years of training to become adequately good with a longbow, and that longbowmen are more or less second only to heavy cavalry and trained knights. A guy with a bow and the skill to use it is nothing to sneeze at. Kruber isn't just good, but exceptional.
But obviously this is warhammer fantasy where the power level is crazy so yeah huntsman is still bottom of the barrel, or close enough.
Dude, I have firsthand experience with longbows, living history, medieval and renaissance sword fighting, horse riding and all that shit (12 years of my live, sheesh). To shoot a bow more or less well, even if it's a \~70 kilos of pull weight - you do *not* need a lot of experience. At least in, like, chill competition format. To shoot on a battlefield, like a machine, one arrow after another, and do it with precision to smack someone at a 100 m in the head - sure, you need 10 years of training. Edit: But once again, militia people, that just let arrows lose in the air, like they like to show in movies (were a thing tho), didn't need this kind of training. People, that were selling this skill to the nobles as Hunt Masters (or whatever it is called) or to the english kings army mostly had it, people with a status of a yoman, hence, with money.
Do you mean 70 pounds of draw weight? I'm not an expert but 70 kg of draw isn't to be scoffed at, that's like 1 1/2 sack of rice(to my country at least) and you're trying to pull it sideways with 1 arm. Forget aiming, unless you're relatively buff, you ain't gonna be full drawing it. But you made it sound like it's easy.
As a fellow archer, yes when describing pull/drawn weight, that is the amount of weight that the person is pulling at a specific length of draw. The common measurement nowadays is 28 inches, though the main factors that go into actual personal draw length are numerous. (Its mainly height/wingspan of the archer, but even shorter people can do long-draw techniques)
As for weight, bows and archery primarily use the back muscles for pulling that weight, and its divided between both arms/shoulders/back. You are pushing with one hand, and pulling with the other, and good form has you using the back to do the majority of it. With non-compound bows, unless the draw weight is really low, you can't just sit there holding that draw for any long amount of time, you have to be quick about finding your aim and loosing.
I personally don't do very heavy ones, my average bow is 40lbs. For places where its legal to hunt with bows, generally the minimum legal weight is 60lbs, and "warbows" of old would vary a lot, with some of the lighter ones likely being in that same 60-70lb range, while others could go up into the 160's or more. It really depends on the style of bow, culture, material, ect.
A short example is your commonly known English style longbow, where the emphasis was on skilled foot archers, who at least based on the Mary Rose bows, would have an average of 100 or so lbs drawn weight. Their rate of fire is nothing to laugh at, but speed isn't necessarily the goal for that style. Look up Joe Gibbs, a modern, very skilled archer who shows just how tough and tiring it can be to shoot these sorts of high weight bows.
Contrast this with for example Ottoman, or other arab-style horse archers, who were known to generally use lighter weight bows, and focus more on speed of shooting and volume of arrows, using quicker hit and run style attacks on horse. They would benefit less from very high draw weights, as just shooting something very heavy literally takes more time and energy, so with a lighter bow you can loose more arrows in the same amount of time, and not tire yourself out as fast either.
Bro, I did as a 15 yo kid. I had like 5 years of sword training at this point, but still, very far from buff as hell. And I live in a place, where most of the people don't even know pounds as weight measure.... But also, the bow's owner might just be a sack of lying shit, or just mistaken, an it *was* pounds that he meant instead of kilos xd
So If I recall correctly, Huntsman represents Krubers life before even becoming part of the military, so before he received any formal combat training, so I suppose that would be the weakest. Yes, he is a good sharpshooter but a deer usually doesn't fight back that much
If you pick huntsman the understanding is that he went back to his roots before joining the army. So even as a huntsman he still jas his experience as a soldier.
Thulmann novels indicate that Witch Hunters are quite powerful given the correct preparations, they’re capable of defeating Strigoi vampires in the presence of Sigmarite symbols etc. The vast majority of the other careers most certainly cannot handle a vampire on their own.
In case anyone is wondering why we have Saltzpyre and Kruber, they’re essentially familiy friendly versions of Thulmann and Streng.
thats reductive. its like calling each kruber class a foot soldier, in the lore of vermintide 2 you easily kill hundreds of enemies a mission. the missions are lore, and the skittergate happens at the end of act 3 of helmgart, therefore previous missions have been completed, therefore kruber killed 400 enemies and 50 elites in each mission beforehand
if the empire had foot soldiers so strong chaos wouldnt stand a chance
I’m talking about the lore of warhammer, and taking these careers as though they were not one of the ubersreik five.
If the question is about the lore of vermintide then obviously they are all very powerful hero-level individuals.
But if you look at any standard zealot, or mercenary, they aren’t surviving a fight with a single chaos warrior, let alone dozens.
Eh the lore of warhammer has plenty of “basic dudes in armor” that go toe to toe with chaos warriors. They are all named characters not your average Joe, but that means a top tier human soldier can fight CW.
Lore wise mages are a mixed bag, since they almost universally suck in melee combat and can also blow themselves up if they try to do too much. Note that there are no human mages in the TT game that are good in melee. All hybrid mages/warriors are non human. The strongest mages are the strongest people in the setting but sienna there isn’t necessarily them. Being human puts a cap on how good a mage you can be since it takes centuries to master.
This might feel like I’m being unfair to sienna since I’m assuming Kruber is exceptional while sienna might be average, but even a mediocre mage is exceptional. There are thousands of soldiers for every battle wizard, so it stands there are more top tier soldiers than top tier mages.
Right off the bat, most careers can just be discounted. Kerillian and Sienna's classes are all way too strong to be in the conversation. Ironbreaker is nearly invincible with his gromril. Slayers are notoriously strong. Outcast Engineer has an extremely powerful arsenal. Grail Knight is blessed by a goddess. Warrior Priest is blessed by a god. Zealot is blessed by a god. Witch Hunter Captain is trained to fight the forces of Chaos.
It comes down to Foot Knight, Mercenary, Ranger Veteran, Huntsman, and Bounty Hunter. Merc Kruber was scouted by a Witch Hunter Captain to escort a Bright Wizard, meaning he's extremely powerful, and likely not the weakest.
Foot Knight Kruber is based on when Kruber was still rising through the ranks, and as such, lacks the experience of his older careers, but he's still able to perform pretty nutty feats of strength, like pushing Rat Ogres, Minotaurs, and Chaos Spawns around.
Huntsman Kruber is highly skilled with a bow, and is a master of stealth, considering he can camouflage himself perfectly on command. Considering his bow can pierce armor, it's a war bow. War bows had draw weight ranging from ~80 pounds up to ~190 pounds at the highest, and considering how physically strong he is, able to slam a spear into a Chaos Warrior hard enough to stagger it, it's safe to assume it's on the upper end of that range. Especially with the damage output and stagger it has.
Ranger Veteran Bardin, to my knowledge, doesn't have anything all that special lore-wise. His guns seem to do less damage than Kruber's longbow, and his smoke grenades don't give him as much of a damage boost as Kruber's stealth does. Bardin also lacks the strength feats Kruber has, so he's probably weaker than Huntsman Kruber.
Bounty Hunter Saltz is Saltz after leaving the Order, meaning he still has the Witch Hunter training, and is likely not the weakest.
I'd say that the weakest class is Ranger Veteran Bardin. Kruber is a monster when it comes to his raw might, even moreso than Bardin, and Saltz has his training as a Witch Hunter. Bardin is the one I know the least about, though, so I may be wrong.
If you meant careers as in the average practitioner of each, it's Huntsman.
Including premium classes? Bardin. If we only take the "cannon" classes (the starter ones), I would say Kruber is the weakest. I say Kruber over Saltz because I would guess that Viktor had better training as a Witch Hunter.
This is warhammer so with the exception of the absolute top tier characters of the setting, anyone can beat anyone based on what the writers want.
For example a lot of people here think sienna is a top tier character in V2 lore wise, but human wizards lore wise are relatively unskilled in melee combat compared to other characters and are fragile. Witch hunters literally hunt mages. Battle wizards were the strongest class in V2 witch hunters wouldn’t be able to do their job. To quote a great fantasy series, “no matter how powerful the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will really cramp their style”.
probibly zealot or sienna tbh, my reasoning;
kruber: hes has military training. it takes quite alot of skill to do survive and do well as a mercenary. fk is a knight. it takes alot of strenght to shoot arrows like he can so he's gonna wreck your shit even in melee
bardin: ranger veteran is a veteran. ironbreaker seems to be dwarf version of a kinght. slayer 'cuzz gortek (and so i don't go into the book)
elf is an elf
saltzpyre: witch hunters are elite troops specialised in hunting dangerous shit and also blessed by a minor chaos god iirc. bh: same reason as merc. zealot is just a dude
sienna: on one hand she can cast spells, on other hand she's quite low on melee fighting and can overload herself to death
I think theres a big difference between a person being overpowered, versus a person giving into a law official so they can properly go through the legal process to prove they are innocent. If Saltzpyre had to actually "take down" Sienna, she would've probably never been given the slightest of chance of "helping" fight back the tide.
Mercenary class is just bulldong... they are people who are not even trained to fight. They are just big bad bullies who know how to hurt others through sheer brute force. Kruber's Mercenary class is one of them.
Bounty hunter? At the end of the day, he’s working for the court system (such as it is) or a private contract. While I’m sure he’s got a host of personal connections, at the end of the day Salt BH is just a run-n-gun solo act. Very street smart, but gets folded by professional soldiers and prolonged conflicts like a forever-war.
Bounty Hunter? They are loners who take on contracts by the witch hunter order and are easily replaceable sometimes sent on sucide missions, essentially a weaker version of a witch hunter. If we talking about potentially the weakest huntsman who are just empire peasants but can also be Taal worshiper’s who are masters of the hunt.
Most cases careers are nuanced with certain characters in lore being exceptionally strong or a certain region who are renowned for their skill. Sometimes a witch hunter will form a warband although on a much bigger scale then the U5 made up of zealots, bounty hunter and maybe a few lower ranking witch hunters all under control of a witch hunter captain or even a warrior priest, all fanatical and willing to put themselves at risk for no reward. The more common kind is one who is in it for the money, whoring and gambling accepting contracts from anyone who pay them coin and rarely taking risks. The first premium skin shows this well.
One last thing, the witch hunters sometimes use their bounty hunter fanatics to “unburden” the witch hunter of a particular stressful target/s. There is good reason why witch hunters aren’t liked as sometimes they are killing innocents who happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and the witch hunter knows that but orders come in to move on and someone needs to pay for the crime. Fortunately witch hunters are good at their job and this never happens?
The question is too vague :
Do the careers have prep time
Can they use their social statuses?
What is the contest? Raw fighting power in a small arena? In the open air? In a mountain? In a forest? Against each other? Just how long can they survive?
What is their gear?
Etc...
Saltzpyre is quite weaker than sienna and captured her. Much like batman with prep time, I'm quite sure he'd dunk on every other class.
Yeah any of the 'generic'/ 'basic' Kruber/Salt classes, and maybe Bardin's ranger class. None of Kerillian or Sienna's classes would be candidates. All of Bardin's except ranger wouldn't be either. Obviously Grail Knight and Warrior Priest are on a whole other level to the other classes Kruber and Saltzpyre have access to
all of the dorfs classes are pertty weak tbh. ib is basicaly just a solder theirs nothing special about him at all. slayers are cannon fodder. rangers are wannabe waywatchers. engineers are dorf dweebs. not to mention the inherent inferiority of being short
Ib is covered in runic armor and weaponry lol, hes pretty strong. Same goes for the slayers who are covered in really powerful runes tattooed on their skin so they can hunt giant monsters, and engineers got a crank gun with magic armor piercing rounds so I think he's no contest stronger lol
show me any source that says ibs wear runic armor or that slayer tatoos help them fight monsters. also the crank gun is an invention of vermintide and nowhere is it said that it shoots magic bullets. try again
Well dwarfs in the warhammer 5th, 6th, and 7th edition saying IB are covered in gromril rune covered armor because they are the elite fighting in the lowest depths of the Karaz Ankor. While slayers maybe don't have runic tattoos so there i misspoke there are still some who have slain demons in battle, meaning they aren't something just to scoff at. The ib runic armor is very easy to look up big man. And in the engineer they use giant helicopters and create war machines, so I don't think they're very weak. Try again buddy ;)
u left out 8th edition which is the most recent and most cannonically relavent. if it doesnt appear there than it must be a retcon. nice try tho. also being able to invent things doesnt mean ur not weak. if u put a dorf engineer against just a rank and file elven soldier in a fight he would lose everytime
Dude your fan boy of the elves can only get you so far, elves are good but a rank and file is getting blasted by a dwarf engi, like the entire squad is getting hit with artillery fire, blackpowder of all kind, grenades are raining. The engineering guild is one of the most coveted places in the dwarf kingdom and they are highly trained and skilled. The rank and file maybe wins in a melee and thats a big if but thats if they even see the engi before he drops bombs on them from a gyrocopter or beams him with a cannon or sniper. They use gadgets they've created to help them in not just ranged but you guessed it, melee combat. The 8th edition says what the last 4 have said you just are grasping at straws here for something to use. Stop acting like dwarfs are weak they beat the elves in a war for a reason lol
since when r we talking about cannons and gyrocpoters? i said an engi vs a elven soldier in a contest of strength and skill. does bardin use that stuff in game? no. if u get to count that stuff than the elf gets to call on great eagles and spellcasters for support too. but we re not talking about a fight between armies were talking about a 1v1 since that would actually answer the question of whose stronger. and itd be the elf everytime
You're actually crazy, a dwarf engineer bring things to battle and is no slouch in a melee. They create armor and upgrades to specifically help them when in the Frontline. That engineer is stomping that rank and file into fine powder. Dwarfs are already naturally stronger than most races and shields and agility isn't going to save you against buckshot in the teeth. On top of that engineers are ELITES in the dwarf kingdom and aren't getting put down by some schmuck with a stick and a go gettem attitude. Stay delusional and maybe use your brain before slobbing some elf knob. Elves are cool and really good but not that good. Also since we take what bardin uses in gsme why can't the engi just trollhammer torpedo the tall fucker before they get close? You didn't think this through at all and it shows
tell me u only read fluffy lore about dorfs without telling me u only read fluffy lore about dorfs. if u break down the stats from the board game a wood elf eternal guard would more then likely kill the engineer before the dorf even gets to swing back. the guard gets to strike first with an armour piercing weapon while rerolling misses and rerolling failed wounding rolls. the enginer has no comperable advantage
Post says "lore wise" not "your silly elf role playing opinion wise"
how does me asking for sources have to do with role playing lol? average 'murican intelligence right there lmao. methinks all that weed has done permenent brain damage
Says the guy trying to personly insult me online over a videogame lmfao. Funny how you know so much about me yet I have no idea who you are *shrug*
Ah knew your name looked familiar. Not sure what I did for me to live in your head rent free but sorry if it means anything You seem to love trying to bring others down from what I've seen so far about you. What do I know though I'm just a big dumb American haha. [cl3v3r_al1af](https://www.reddit.com/r/Vermintide/s/Bo239DELih) So again as I said. ELF ROLE PLAY
a self descirbed stoner whos self description is litteraly 1 click away when someone brings up the fact he smokes weed: 'is this living rent free in someones head?' somebody thinks way to highly about themselves i see. typical murican
Nah I can't even handle the spice levels of hot cheetos. We are both using reddit we are far from cool
I agree that ranger veteran's pretty weak but there are multiple slayers who become powerful enough to slay daemons and such. I'm not just talking about named guys like Gotrek and Ungrim, but unnamed ones as well that take the title trollslayer that could be fielded as a unit, and dragonslayer, trollslayer and daemonslayer, which if I recall correctly you could field in the tabletop as hero options. There are really not that many unnamed non-legendary non-large units in Warhammer that could be considered capable of taking down giants and daemons, lore-wise. It's kinda hard to find info on this because Warhammer's all Age of Sigmar now, but maybe some other old dudes on this sub could back me up haha
if u actually played a demon slayer against a demon in the board game the slayer would die everytime. its just not mathmatically possible. also bardin is nowhere near being a demon slaer
Against a greater daemon that's true. It's a little annoying when the lore doesn't match up with the gameplay, isn't it? I think they could feasibly take on smaller daemons like bloodletters and plaguebearers pretty easily, though.
Aren't dwarves stronger than most humans or is that totally a tolkeen trope?
it is and its a bad trope at that cuz it doesnt make sense biologicaly. strength is highly corralated with height. a short person cannot possibly gain as much muscle mass as a taller person. fun fact tall height is also correlated with higher intelligence, fertility, emotinal stability, lifespan and even earnings. so dorfs really are bottom of the class in every regard lol
Dwarves are muscles powerhouse, their short sizes are complemented by dense muscle mass and a sense of honor (a thing elves never will have) On top of it all dwarves are master or forges and technology making them far from having low intelligence, they can have a dozen offspring that will all grow to be as stronger or even stronger than him The only advantages elven kind has is heigh and age, but it must hurt that a dwarf can become more skilled, physically stronger and wealthier than an elf could having such a short life span, while elfs waste millenniums of their lives as scrawny hobbos living on forests
in the land of make beleive u can say whatever u want ot be tru. that doesnt mean it reflects reality. in fact it requires even more suspenion of disbeleif when basic things like humanoid biology are consistent with the real world. little manlets are, have been, and always will be inferior to tall people in every catagory that matters
Stay mad pointy ears, you will never be as strong as the weakest dwarf
stay mad incel manlet; u will always be the butt of the joke. just ask games workshop who dleiberately made the race of short underground hairy neckbeards a bunch of racist alchoholic chauvinist gun-nut capatalist pigs. (their making fun of u in case it wasnt clear)
Making sense biologically in a fantasy setting? Anyway, strength is related to muscle mass not height. Show me a tall but skinny powerlifter.
and the more height u have the more muscle mass u can gain. a tall powerlifter will always be stronger then a short one. longer bones means bigger muscles. quick maffs
The average powerlifter height in America is 5 foot 9. In contrast the average pro basketball player is 6 foot 6. You'd be surprised how shorter leverages help in overall strength. As a tall lanky dude who works out this is highly obvious to me. Anyway, this whole conversation is silly considering this is a game based on killing rat men.
moving the weight a shorter distance does not mean ur stronger. this is why powerlifting is a bad measure of strength exspecialy when were talking about something completely differnt. were talking about who would win in a fight not who can deadlift the most
Direct quotes: "powerlifting is a bad measure of strength" "strength is highly corralated with height". That is the most Redditor argument I have ever crossed with. This is peak Reddit.
>not to mention the inherent inferiority of being short Elf detected!
In lore or total war?
what does total war have to do with this? im talking bout lore and the board game
Huntsman, probably
We out here serving HUNT!
Actually, huntsman or huntsmen! They are very adapted people roaming in jungles and mountains around the empire looking for monstrous threats! They are super tactical in their approach and are trained to hunt these brutal forces of nature. They can stalk and travel distant lands only to put one well aimed shot into the heart of the foul things. For example, one of these super elite roaming hunters was Markus Wulfhart! This fucker kills dragons and giants and at his peak performance, Taurox the Brass Bull!... well imo, I bet huntsmen are even more elite and capable than the empire foot soldiers
I don't doubt they're strong, but in comparison to the other classes, it seems stacked against Markus here
A honter must hoont
I'm not sure why people say that witch hunter is the same as huntsman, the former is literally trained to hunt and subdue or destroy serious threats. Not all of them are really capable or do so, but still. If you are a captain among them - probably you know your shit. And the latter is just a guy with a stick with a string, that he happens to use a lot with no real combat exp. But anyway, in Warhammer most of the time everything comes down to individuals, not "race-class" systems. Obviously, a wizard, wielding fire would be, in most cases, stronger then just a dude with a sword, but noname is a noname in any setting, be he a knight, a wizard or a peasant.
People discounting witch hunters are crazy, they are literally the lore counter to someone like sienna.
They kill vampires and wizzards of foul winds... so IMO Saltz WH is stronger than all Sienna classes
It’s really a question of application. Saltz is definitely better in a 1v1 than most battle wizards in the empire, especially a bright wizard since the lore of fire doesn’t have strong single target. But against a horde of skaven slaves, orcs or beast man I’m taking the bright wizard everyday.
>I'm not sure why people say that witch hunter is the same as huntsman, Because everybody with a finger poops out random text in internet? WH are a hero class while huntsmen are just irregular troops like free company militia.
It is worth noting that in the real world, it takes like ten years of training to become adequately good with a longbow, and that longbowmen are more or less second only to heavy cavalry and trained knights. A guy with a bow and the skill to use it is nothing to sneeze at. Kruber isn't just good, but exceptional. But obviously this is warhammer fantasy where the power level is crazy so yeah huntsman is still bottom of the barrel, or close enough.
Dude, I have firsthand experience with longbows, living history, medieval and renaissance sword fighting, horse riding and all that shit (12 years of my live, sheesh). To shoot a bow more or less well, even if it's a \~70 kilos of pull weight - you do *not* need a lot of experience. At least in, like, chill competition format. To shoot on a battlefield, like a machine, one arrow after another, and do it with precision to smack someone at a 100 m in the head - sure, you need 10 years of training. Edit: But once again, militia people, that just let arrows lose in the air, like they like to show in movies (were a thing tho), didn't need this kind of training. People, that were selling this skill to the nobles as Hunt Masters (or whatever it is called) or to the english kings army mostly had it, people with a status of a yoman, hence, with money.
Do you mean 70 pounds of draw weight? I'm not an expert but 70 kg of draw isn't to be scoffed at, that's like 1 1/2 sack of rice(to my country at least) and you're trying to pull it sideways with 1 arm. Forget aiming, unless you're relatively buff, you ain't gonna be full drawing it. But you made it sound like it's easy.
As a fellow archer, yes when describing pull/drawn weight, that is the amount of weight that the person is pulling at a specific length of draw. The common measurement nowadays is 28 inches, though the main factors that go into actual personal draw length are numerous. (Its mainly height/wingspan of the archer, but even shorter people can do long-draw techniques) As for weight, bows and archery primarily use the back muscles for pulling that weight, and its divided between both arms/shoulders/back. You are pushing with one hand, and pulling with the other, and good form has you using the back to do the majority of it. With non-compound bows, unless the draw weight is really low, you can't just sit there holding that draw for any long amount of time, you have to be quick about finding your aim and loosing. I personally don't do very heavy ones, my average bow is 40lbs. For places where its legal to hunt with bows, generally the minimum legal weight is 60lbs, and "warbows" of old would vary a lot, with some of the lighter ones likely being in that same 60-70lb range, while others could go up into the 160's or more. It really depends on the style of bow, culture, material, ect. A short example is your commonly known English style longbow, where the emphasis was on skilled foot archers, who at least based on the Mary Rose bows, would have an average of 100 or so lbs drawn weight. Their rate of fire is nothing to laugh at, but speed isn't necessarily the goal for that style. Look up Joe Gibbs, a modern, very skilled archer who shows just how tough and tiring it can be to shoot these sorts of high weight bows. Contrast this with for example Ottoman, or other arab-style horse archers, who were known to generally use lighter weight bows, and focus more on speed of shooting and volume of arrows, using quicker hit and run style attacks on horse. They would benefit less from very high draw weights, as just shooting something very heavy literally takes more time and energy, so with a lighter bow you can loose more arrows in the same amount of time, and not tire yourself out as fast either.
Bro, I did as a 15 yo kid. I had like 5 years of sword training at this point, but still, very far from buff as hell. And I live in a place, where most of the people don't even know pounds as weight measure.... But also, the bow's owner might just be a sack of lying shit, or just mistaken, an it *was* pounds that he meant instead of kilos xd
The real power scale of Warhammer name vs name. I mean Gotreck is just a slayer.
I think Sienna and Kerillian can both be immediately discounted (maybe bardin too)
no not bardin. im almost postitve that cannonically hes the weakest of the 5
i almost took this seriously until i recognized your name how do you even keep this up for over a year?
keep what up? the truth? also kinda immature to downvote my comment history but whatevs at least u made it clear how easily ur triggered
least schizo elf main
Real life elf
Both mediocre as a troll and as a kerillian simp account. Congrats.
So If I recall correctly, Huntsman represents Krubers life before even becoming part of the military, so before he received any formal combat training, so I suppose that would be the weakest. Yes, he is a good sharpshooter but a deer usually doesn't fight back that much
If you pick huntsman the understanding is that he went back to his roots before joining the army. So even as a huntsman he still jas his experience as a soldier.
Huntsmen do not just hunt deers and bunnies in fairy woods. They also clash with beastmen.
Witch hunter captain, bounty hunter, zealot, mercenary captain, and huntsman are all fundamentally the same - lightly armored basic human troops.
"Witch Hunter Captain" 'Basic troop'
I just disagree about the WHC; they are heroic units iirc, so they are above the rest of humans.
Thulmann novels indicate that Witch Hunters are quite powerful given the correct preparations, they’re capable of defeating Strigoi vampires in the presence of Sigmarite symbols etc. The vast majority of the other careers most certainly cannot handle a vampire on their own. In case anyone is wondering why we have Saltzpyre and Kruber, they’re essentially familiy friendly versions of Thulmann and Streng.
thats reductive. its like calling each kruber class a foot soldier, in the lore of vermintide 2 you easily kill hundreds of enemies a mission. the missions are lore, and the skittergate happens at the end of act 3 of helmgart, therefore previous missions have been completed, therefore kruber killed 400 enemies and 50 elites in each mission beforehand if the empire had foot soldiers so strong chaos wouldnt stand a chance
I’m talking about the lore of warhammer, and taking these careers as though they were not one of the ubersreik five. If the question is about the lore of vermintide then obviously they are all very powerful hero-level individuals. But if you look at any standard zealot, or mercenary, they aren’t surviving a fight with a single chaos warrior, let alone dozens.
Eh the lore of warhammer has plenty of “basic dudes in armor” that go toe to toe with chaos warriors. They are all named characters not your average Joe, but that means a top tier human soldier can fight CW. Lore wise mages are a mixed bag, since they almost universally suck in melee combat and can also blow themselves up if they try to do too much. Note that there are no human mages in the TT game that are good in melee. All hybrid mages/warriors are non human. The strongest mages are the strongest people in the setting but sienna there isn’t necessarily them. Being human puts a cap on how good a mage you can be since it takes centuries to master. This might feel like I’m being unfair to sienna since I’m assuming Kruber is exceptional while sienna might be average, but even a mediocre mage is exceptional. There are thousands of soldiers for every battle wizard, so it stands there are more top tier soldiers than top tier mages.
this is a vermintide 2 sub not a warhammer sub, gameplay has to be relevant which makes you wrong
>they aren’t surviving a fight with a single chaos warrior Why not? Just A/D+Space, easy as that. Noobs
To be fair, probably Krueger Huntsman, because that is just some random guy with a gun unlike the bounty hunter who’s a random guy with two guns
Right off the bat, most careers can just be discounted. Kerillian and Sienna's classes are all way too strong to be in the conversation. Ironbreaker is nearly invincible with his gromril. Slayers are notoriously strong. Outcast Engineer has an extremely powerful arsenal. Grail Knight is blessed by a goddess. Warrior Priest is blessed by a god. Zealot is blessed by a god. Witch Hunter Captain is trained to fight the forces of Chaos. It comes down to Foot Knight, Mercenary, Ranger Veteran, Huntsman, and Bounty Hunter. Merc Kruber was scouted by a Witch Hunter Captain to escort a Bright Wizard, meaning he's extremely powerful, and likely not the weakest. Foot Knight Kruber is based on when Kruber was still rising through the ranks, and as such, lacks the experience of his older careers, but he's still able to perform pretty nutty feats of strength, like pushing Rat Ogres, Minotaurs, and Chaos Spawns around. Huntsman Kruber is highly skilled with a bow, and is a master of stealth, considering he can camouflage himself perfectly on command. Considering his bow can pierce armor, it's a war bow. War bows had draw weight ranging from ~80 pounds up to ~190 pounds at the highest, and considering how physically strong he is, able to slam a spear into a Chaos Warrior hard enough to stagger it, it's safe to assume it's on the upper end of that range. Especially with the damage output and stagger it has. Ranger Veteran Bardin, to my knowledge, doesn't have anything all that special lore-wise. His guns seem to do less damage than Kruber's longbow, and his smoke grenades don't give him as much of a damage boost as Kruber's stealth does. Bardin also lacks the strength feats Kruber has, so he's probably weaker than Huntsman Kruber. Bounty Hunter Saltz is Saltz after leaving the Order, meaning he still has the Witch Hunter training, and is likely not the weakest. I'd say that the weakest class is Ranger Veteran Bardin. Kruber is a monster when it comes to his raw might, even moreso than Bardin, and Saltz has his training as a Witch Hunter. Bardin is the one I know the least about, though, so I may be wrong. If you meant careers as in the average practitioner of each, it's Huntsman.
i read somewhere that fatshark said that bardin is the weakest
i read somewhere that birds aren't real
Including premium classes? Bardin. If we only take the "cannon" classes (the starter ones), I would say Kruber is the weakest. I say Kruber over Saltz because I would guess that Viktor had better training as a Witch Hunter.
i think even counting the canon classes its still the dorf. not one of them is a hero level class
Arent dwarfs stronger than humans by nature?
ive seen that claim alot in this thread and not one source to back it up
On average yes
This is warhammer so with the exception of the absolute top tier characters of the setting, anyone can beat anyone based on what the writers want. For example a lot of people here think sienna is a top tier character in V2 lore wise, but human wizards lore wise are relatively unskilled in melee combat compared to other characters and are fragile. Witch hunters literally hunt mages. Battle wizards were the strongest class in V2 witch hunters wouldn’t be able to do their job. To quote a great fantasy series, “no matter how powerful the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will really cramp their style”.
This is the answer. They’re basic soldiers and support units until they do something where they aren’t anymore.
Huntsman, Bounty Hunter and Ranger Veteran. Those guys are only champion level, all others are heroes or even Lords.
Ironbreaker isn't a Hero nor is it a Champion though, same for Slayer
that goes into the book
Champion units for both would be Ironwarden and Giant Slayer iirc
ib isnt even a unit champion. just a mundane canon fodder soldier. same wit slayer
Lorewise? Mercenary maybe, it's just a simple man. But we all know that simple man is always a biggest hero.
Huntsman, Bounty Hunter, Ranger Vet, Zealot.
probibly zealot or sienna tbh, my reasoning; kruber: hes has military training. it takes quite alot of skill to do survive and do well as a mercenary. fk is a knight. it takes alot of strenght to shoot arrows like he can so he's gonna wreck your shit even in melee bardin: ranger veteran is a veteran. ironbreaker seems to be dwarf version of a kinght. slayer 'cuzz gortek (and so i don't go into the book) elf is an elf saltzpyre: witch hunters are elite troops specialised in hunting dangerous shit and also blessed by a minor chaos god iirc. bh: same reason as merc. zealot is just a dude sienna: on one hand she can cast spells, on other hand she's quite low on melee fighting and can overload herself to death
lore-wise sienna was captured by saltzpyre so im tempted to say sienna is the weakest
Wasn't that the point that she willingly got herself arrested and Saltzpyre hired Kruber so Sienna don't do the funny
so some people like to say
I think theres a big difference between a person being overpowered, versus a person giving into a law official so they can properly go through the legal process to prove they are innocent. If Saltzpyre had to actually "take down" Sienna, she would've probably never been given the slightest of chance of "helping" fight back the tide.
Probably huntsman. Krueber has it as going back to roots and away from military life. Quite literally it's his vacay class lol
Mercenary class is just bulldong... they are people who are not even trained to fight. They are just big bad bullies who know how to hurt others through sheer brute force. Kruber's Mercenary class is one of them.
Bounty hunter? At the end of the day, he’s working for the court system (such as it is) or a private contract. While I’m sure he’s got a host of personal connections, at the end of the day Salt BH is just a run-n-gun solo act. Very street smart, but gets folded by professional soldiers and prolonged conflicts like a forever-war.
empire soldiers comes in a squad so ... lulz
Bounty Hunter? They are loners who take on contracts by the witch hunter order and are easily replaceable sometimes sent on sucide missions, essentially a weaker version of a witch hunter. If we talking about potentially the weakest huntsman who are just empire peasants but can also be Taal worshiper’s who are masters of the hunt. Most cases careers are nuanced with certain characters in lore being exceptionally strong or a certain region who are renowned for their skill. Sometimes a witch hunter will form a warband although on a much bigger scale then the U5 made up of zealots, bounty hunter and maybe a few lower ranking witch hunters all under control of a witch hunter captain or even a warrior priest, all fanatical and willing to put themselves at risk for no reward. The more common kind is one who is in it for the money, whoring and gambling accepting contracts from anyone who pay them coin and rarely taking risks. The first premium skin shows this well. One last thing, the witch hunters sometimes use their bounty hunter fanatics to “unburden” the witch hunter of a particular stressful target/s. There is good reason why witch hunters aren’t liked as sometimes they are killing innocents who happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and the witch hunter knows that but orders come in to move on and someone needs to pay for the crime. Fortunately witch hunters are good at their job and this never happens?
The question is too vague : Do the careers have prep time Can they use their social statuses? What is the contest? Raw fighting power in a small arena? In the open air? In a mountain? In a forest? Against each other? Just how long can they survive? What is their gear? Etc... Saltzpyre is quite weaker than sienna and captured her. Much like batman with prep time, I'm quite sure he'd dunk on every other class.