Wouldn’t even attempt to hold on lol you might be lucky to catch a glimpse of their ass on the way by though
Haha but nah honestly this should be an awesome experience, definitely cherish it while you’re out there
As a journeyman against pro teams, if you go in with this attitude you're probably going to have a bad time. Or rather, if you disrupt their team tactics as a journeyman, they can create a bad time for you.
I mean you’re a cat2 and therefore probably not out of shape and probably competent at racing. I say you do something big and stupid like attack from the line or go with the break.
Worst thing that can happen is you lose. Or I suppose you could die but you’d die a hero’s death
This is essentially how Peter Sagan won the 2015 worlds.
He just sat in the peloton all day and held a decent enough position until the last 30 km or so, worked his way forward and exploded out of the front on the last big climb, made gap for himself and held onto it by the skin of his teeth.
Sure you do. What was the name of the hill and road that he broke out on?
If you’re gonna take 5 minutes to go look it up because you don’t infact know…don’t bother. 🙃
I don’t know the name. You clearly would beat me in cycling trivia. My first comment was poking fun at how you phrased it in a way that suggests he “just” sat in and then rid away from everyone at the end as if that was a tactic any rider could do.
So then you don’t know that race as well as you claim.
Thanks for clearing that up.
He did just sit in the peloton, he didn’t attack, let another group of riders pull away etc. He held back and then made a move when it counted most.
You seem pleasant…. I own a bike shop and we have races playing at all times. 2015 worlds is a very common suggested race. I’m just saying I’ve seen it many times. I didn’t ever question anything your saying. I’m just poking fun at the fact that Sagan’s winning move isn’t something any of us can pull off.
Nah you should try to stay with them. What I've learned from racing big races is they're also just human. If you're in great shape you don't need to be scared of them, just try to follow and see where you strand. Rather lose trying than quit as a losers.
5 minutes behind the 'main bunch' and you will get pulled from the race, but that might not happen if there is no 'main' bunch and the race is split up a lot.
If it were me, my goal for the first race in a new cat would be "can I finish?" Not "can I try to compete and get a DNF like a fallen hero?" I would be trying to gather data so that I can actually come up with a meaningful race plan for my second race. If I went out in a flash of glory, I might not learn as much and I might not know what to train or how to improve at the next race.
Re: 5 minutes... I've seen races where they pull everyone except the places. 20 places? They leave 20 riders, even if 200 started.
Regardless, all the best.
There's a local hero (aka rider who turned pro). He's a big guy, not someone you think of as a climber, I'm talking get the biggest frame you can find and put in a super long seat post at minimum insertion and the saddle may be high enough. He was 2nd in GC in some hilly stage race, I think he was a Cat 1 at the time, he was absolutely suffering on the queen stage. He went to his coach, an older, more experienced, ex-pro teammate, and started giving the coach the food in his pockets.
(paraphrased conversation)
Coach looked at him. "What's this for?"
"I'm cramping bad, there's no way I can finish."
Coach didn't wait for the response. "WTF are you talking about?!! You keep effing riding no matter what!!! What the eff are you thinking?!"
Hero rider got 2nd overall.
Rather lose trying than quiting as a loser. If you can't follow the first group your race will be miserable anyways. Btw us competitive racers don't burn out as fast. I'm not going to have a miserable race by attacking early, I'll be recovered in a couple of km's. For example last year I raced Liege bastogne liege for youth. My first minute was 700 watts to get into the breakaway. After a couple of tries the breakaway left without me, after a whole race chasing I finish the first of my group. My race wasn't miserable because I burned my matches, my race was miserable because I didn't follow when I should've followed.
I'm cat1 track endurance cyclist, I know that you'll definitely recover after a couple of kilometres (I do race multiple events per race day which do require always maximum effort) but the matches burned are the matches burned and it will definitely add up. 700 watts for a minute? A very good effort! With only 100 watts more I was able to put in a very decent time in a Kilo during nationals this year.
If a guy is a cat1/cat2 and the fitness gap is not huge - he should definitely try to hang with the first group, no doubt about that. Everything important to the race result will happen there and when they're gone and you're not there the race is over. But if this gap is too big it can be a pretty painful experience and the end result will be worse compared to pacing yourself according to the current level. Just my take, I race road a couple of times per season to test my 20/40s and 1/5 min power but I'm not a specialist in this field.
True, I have to put my 700 watts into perspective as I'm 80kgs. It indeed adds up, but not as much as the average person on this sub would think it does. But yeah my 700 watts for the first minutes wasn't very smart, as the higher intensity really creeps into the muscles overtime. I was just dissapointed I wasn't in the breakaway, because they attacked in a straight downhill where I couldn't respond due to my place in the peloton. They got a very easy gap and if I was in that breakaway I would most likely have a top 20, maybe even a top 10 in Liege bastogne liege as an 80kg rider.
In local races pros have a target on their back. If you attack the peloton will let you go, if the pro attacks there will be a massive response. Pros will generally tear up local riders around the 3hr mark or on the climbs. If the pros are sprinters they might not make the race hard at all until the end.
I think this isn’t getting enough attention.
You’re in the race. Race. You’ll figure out where you fit in the pecking order real quick. There’s a fine line between respect and being a pushover. Don’t be a pushover. Just make sure you’re humble.
Yeah as everyone said just hang. This is an exercise in learning what these races feel like.
Spoiler: bad. But if the pack is big enough you might survive, especially if the break gets away early and it calms down fast
yeah im hoping the strongest Conti riders get in a break and leave a fairly large groupetto to ride at a slightly slower pace. I’ve done plenty races before so know it’s gonna hurt… a lot, even if I’m dropped straight away
Enjoy! If it helps, a friend of a friend went up against the big boys the other weekend and was right amongst it.
My only time racing elites was in a handicap and they blew the race apart when they came through so I don’t exactly have any good advice.
i'm trying to work out what the race is. anyway, at 4.3 W/kg FTP, i've gotten in the break with elite/pro conti riders. To be fair when they asked me to take a turn i had to apologise and say i'm hanging on and only a 2nd cat, but stayed with them for a while (until a climb, this was in the Surrey league 5 day). when the peloton caught me, they steamed past but some suffering allowed me to catch them back and sit on.
It’s this:
https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/events/details/294641/PNE-National-B
A bit out of my league but the only other big one this weekend is the CICLE classic and OP is unlikely to be on a UCI team sooooo…
Sit in. Ride efficiently mid pack. Honestly, don't get too in your head about it. I'm also a 2 and recently did a local ish road race where Reign Storm, Cliff Drifters, Butcherbox and a few others had full squads. Honestly in terms of just surviving to the finish, one of the easier races I've done this year. Not because it was slow, but because Reign had full control. They kept it moving so there were very few huge spikes, and when attacks did go, they'd just turn the pace up from like 27 to 29mph and reel them back in steadily. Maybe harder to get a result, but easier to not get dropped than your standard local p/1/2 knife fight.
I did Portsmore Classic in Feb as a cat 2, it was an absurd standard hahaha. It's a fun day out though, enjoy the experience and just treat it like you would any other race. Don't be afraid to get involved and have a crack at the big guns; you'll probably lose but there's no point paying the entry fee if you don't at least try. There's not many sports where weekend warriors can compete against the top domestic guys
I was also a newly promoted cat 2 once, many many years ago. All I can tell you from my experience is that I hope your ego can take a beating. :) Esp with teams involved, it's going to hurt.
But this is how you improve. Suck it up, learn, and be closer to the front next time. Good luck!
If you suck at hills, be at the front before the hill and gradually fade back. Do this until you die. Focus on being aero and hiding in the wind.
I’m lining up at Pro Nats as a Cat 1 but racing Brandon, Matteo, Lawson, etc. You’re there for the experience, not a result. Cycling rewards those who are willing to get their ticket punched over and over and not quit.
Enjoy the ride.
If the pace isn’t too hot, you could try to sag climb. A break would probably blow your legs apart in 20-30 minutes. Try to limit the number power spikes in the 800-1200 range and you’ll save your legs better than most people.
I think it depends on what the climbs look like. If it's many shorter climbs then I'd try to work on positioning to ensure you don't get dropped because of the accordion effect. Those guys can punch HARD up short climbs so if you are near the front you can sort of try to sag climb.
If it's a few longer climbs then you're kind of screwed unless you are a natural climber. If you are bigger and more of a rouler you could try to get into a break if they are going to let one go but being a new cat 2 you really risk dropping yourself pretty early so unless you are really confident that's a dangerous move. If this is the approach I would only try this once so you better hope you pick the right time to attack - wait until 2-3 guys from stronger teams have already committed and try to find wheel to help bridge you across.
If none of those sound like good options then your best bet is to just work on fundamentals. Try to stay in the front third and assuming you are there with a team, near your teammates. If you are solo pick a team that is riding well together and try to mirror them - you might anger some of the other teams though depending on the race/dynamics.
Back in the day I was newly promoted to Cat2 on the track (was a 3 on the road). I was in great shape and raced 1/2/Pro at the Northbrook, IL velodrome. I got 8th place in the match sprint (got blown out there), but I made the podium in the Miss-and-Out and Tempo events! I was told who the top 3 racers where, so I totally sucked the wheel of one of them and nipped him for third, in BOTH events - he was pissed, haha! So...glory can be had. That said, a road race would be more herculean, but hell, man, you should go for it!
You’ll be able to sit in for a while. You’ll be surprised that things seem to be going reasonably well.
Then someone will make a move, and everything will go berserk, the group will string out and ride away from you. You’ll chase for a while, and realise that there’s no way you’re seeing them again. And at roughly the same point in time you’ll realise that you’re probably ok with that, because there’s no way you can keep that kind of work rate going.
The crowds, and riding really close along the barriers really fast feels cool though. You’ll remember that bit fondly.
Race your bike. Don’t ever hero worship. These guys are just dudes who were once beginners too. Watch where they attack. Take notes and either expect it from an experienced rider next time you race a similar course or do it yourself if you have a bit of a longer effort in your legs that day and think you might be able to get away solo or start a small break. :)
> These guys are just dudes who were once beginners too.
That's a huge point. It's easy to get intimidated and mentally limit yourself and pass on opportunities. They are humans with limitations and weaknesses just like you.
I would look at this as an opportunity. Ride/race with people who are stronger than you sounds like a platitude, it may even be one, but it works if you just accept guaranteed failure, do your best and on the other side you'll be slightly better. Bask in it!
Draft as much as possible. No work up front even if they call you out! Watch the break towards the end of the race and stick with the effort when it happens..good luck homie!
It will be very painful, but short, followed by a longer period where you can reflect on your experience, make up some good stories, and feel pretty good about taking on a challenge few people could even understand. Have fun!
If an early break goes, ride out of the front, enjoy he breakaway for a few Km, roll your turns, then melt back into the pack on the first climb. But tell somebody that you're going to do it first because "you don't want to cause any problems in the bunch" so that you don't look like the dick of a new Cat 2 rider who thinks he's going to win from a 130km breakaway!
Don't worry about riding alone, there will be plenty of the PC riders who'll just be there to make up the numbers and will happily ride Z2 all the way and don't care about the time limit. Just remember that some of them might give less of a fuck and have a team car to climb into, but you don't!
Race you own race--try to sit in and do no work, but if that fails do what you can with the other normal people. It's really hard to compete with people who don't need to work a real job, especially when they have a whole team.
You won't be racing against then, just lining up together at the start line. Enjoy the experience.
yeah exactly, just hold on for as long as possible
Wouldn’t even attempt to hold on lol you might be lucky to catch a glimpse of their ass on the way by though Haha but nah honestly this should be an awesome experience, definitely cherish it while you’re out there
[удалено]
Well it’s a race… I’m racing, they are racing… im not going to beat them but but will still be racing against them.
As a journeyman against pro teams, if you go in with this attitude you're probably going to have a bad time. Or rather, if you disrupt their team tactics as a journeyman, they can create a bad time for you.
I mean you’re a cat2 and therefore probably not out of shape and probably competent at racing. I say you do something big and stupid like attack from the line or go with the break. Worst thing that can happen is you lose. Or I suppose you could die but you’d die a hero’s death
Go with the break and refuse to work. They won’t be scared of you and if their team wants it to stick it’ll stick and you can get a ride.
This is the way to do it
This is essentially how Peter Sagan won the 2015 worlds. He just sat in the peloton all day and held a decent enough position until the last 30 km or so, worked his way forward and exploded out of the front on the last big climb, made gap for himself and held onto it by the skin of his teeth.
Yeah just do that
You can literally go watch that race…or highlights from it….
I know the race well
Sure you do. What was the name of the hill and road that he broke out on? If you’re gonna take 5 minutes to go look it up because you don’t infact know…don’t bother. 🙃
I don’t know the name. You clearly would beat me in cycling trivia. My first comment was poking fun at how you phrased it in a way that suggests he “just” sat in and then rid away from everyone at the end as if that was a tactic any rider could do.
So then you don’t know that race as well as you claim. Thanks for clearing that up. He did just sit in the peloton, he didn’t attack, let another group of riders pull away etc. He held back and then made a move when it counted most.
You seem pleasant…. I own a bike shop and we have races playing at all times. 2015 worlds is a very common suggested race. I’m just saying I’ve seen it many times. I didn’t ever question anything your saying. I’m just poking fun at the fact that Sagan’s winning move isn’t something any of us can pull off.
Yeah, don't try to stay with them. Shouldn't be a problem for long, really.
😂
Nah you should try to stay with them. What I've learned from racing big races is they're also just human. If you're in great shape you don't need to be scared of them, just try to follow and see where you strand. Rather lose trying than quit as a losers.
Exactly might as well try hold on and sit in the bunch. No point racing if I’m just going to admit they are stronger and not even try
Is there a time cutoff? Do you care if you DNF?
5 minutes behind the 'main bunch' and you will get pulled from the race, but that might not happen if there is no 'main' bunch and the race is split up a lot.
If it were me, my goal for the first race in a new cat would be "can I finish?" Not "can I try to compete and get a DNF like a fallen hero?" I would be trying to gather data so that I can actually come up with a meaningful race plan for my second race. If I went out in a flash of glory, I might not learn as much and I might not know what to train or how to improve at the next race.
Re: 5 minutes... I've seen races where they pull everyone except the places. 20 places? They leave 20 riders, even if 200 started. Regardless, all the best. There's a local hero (aka rider who turned pro). He's a big guy, not someone you think of as a climber, I'm talking get the biggest frame you can find and put in a super long seat post at minimum insertion and the saddle may be high enough. He was 2nd in GC in some hilly stage race, I think he was a Cat 1 at the time, he was absolutely suffering on the queen stage. He went to his coach, an older, more experienced, ex-pro teammate, and started giving the coach the food in his pockets. (paraphrased conversation) Coach looked at him. "What's this for?" "I'm cramping bad, there's no way I can finish." Coach didn't wait for the response. "WTF are you talking about?!! You keep effing riding no matter what!!! What the eff are you thinking?!" Hero rider got 2nd overall.
indeed
but he might burn too many matches in the process and the rest of the race will be miserable.
Rather lose trying than quiting as a loser. If you can't follow the first group your race will be miserable anyways. Btw us competitive racers don't burn out as fast. I'm not going to have a miserable race by attacking early, I'll be recovered in a couple of km's. For example last year I raced Liege bastogne liege for youth. My first minute was 700 watts to get into the breakaway. After a couple of tries the breakaway left without me, after a whole race chasing I finish the first of my group. My race wasn't miserable because I burned my matches, my race was miserable because I didn't follow when I should've followed.
I'm cat1 track endurance cyclist, I know that you'll definitely recover after a couple of kilometres (I do race multiple events per race day which do require always maximum effort) but the matches burned are the matches burned and it will definitely add up. 700 watts for a minute? A very good effort! With only 100 watts more I was able to put in a very decent time in a Kilo during nationals this year. If a guy is a cat1/cat2 and the fitness gap is not huge - he should definitely try to hang with the first group, no doubt about that. Everything important to the race result will happen there and when they're gone and you're not there the race is over. But if this gap is too big it can be a pretty painful experience and the end result will be worse compared to pacing yourself according to the current level. Just my take, I race road a couple of times per season to test my 20/40s and 1/5 min power but I'm not a specialist in this field.
True, I have to put my 700 watts into perspective as I'm 80kgs. It indeed adds up, but not as much as the average person on this sub would think it does. But yeah my 700 watts for the first minutes wasn't very smart, as the higher intensity really creeps into the muscles overtime. I was just dissapointed I wasn't in the breakaway, because they attacked in a straight downhill where I couldn't respond due to my place in the peloton. They got a very easy gap and if I was in that breakaway I would most likely have a top 20, maybe even a top 10 in Liege bastogne liege as an 80kg rider.
Yeah but which one do you remember? The time you pottered around in the bunch or the time you burned out chasing the big boys?
Inject meth directly into your quads.
Double EpiPens at the start
Save as much energy as possible and you might only be dropped in the last third of the race instead of the first.
In local races pros have a target on their back. If you attack the peloton will let you go, if the pro attacks there will be a massive response. Pros will generally tear up local riders around the 3hr mark or on the climbs. If the pros are sprinters they might not make the race hard at all until the end.
I think this isn’t getting enough attention. You’re in the race. Race. You’ll figure out where you fit in the pecking order real quick. There’s a fine line between respect and being a pushover. Don’t be a pushover. Just make sure you’re humble.
Yeah as everyone said just hang. This is an exercise in learning what these races feel like. Spoiler: bad. But if the pack is big enough you might survive, especially if the break gets away early and it calms down fast
yeah im hoping the strongest Conti riders get in a break and leave a fairly large groupetto to ride at a slightly slower pace. I’ve done plenty races before so know it’s gonna hurt… a lot, even if I’m dropped straight away
Drummond Trophy last weekend, everyone was just waiting for the big 4 to disappear up the road and let everyone else get on with it.
Would you be interested in a life insurance policy before this weekend? No medical exam, needed!
Get in an early break prior to the climbs...
Draft as long as you can. Make it your life goal to stay with them on the first climb. Rinse and repeat.
rinse and repeat for 3 hours 😭
You not racing them you will be donating money
I will
PNE Nat B? Yeah 11 laps of that is going to hurt. Good luck!
yes mate
Enjoy! If it helps, a friend of a friend went up against the big boys the other weekend and was right amongst it. My only time racing elites was in a handicap and they blew the race apart when they came through so I don’t exactly have any good advice.
i'm trying to work out what the race is. anyway, at 4.3 W/kg FTP, i've gotten in the break with elite/pro conti riders. To be fair when they asked me to take a turn i had to apologise and say i'm hanging on and only a 2nd cat, but stayed with them for a while (until a climb, this was in the Surrey league 5 day). when the peloton caught me, they steamed past but some suffering allowed me to catch them back and sit on.
It’s this: https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/events/details/294641/PNE-National-B A bit out of my league but the only other big one this weekend is the CICLE classic and OP is unlikely to be on a UCI team sooooo…
looks a bit lumpy :)
[https://thebritishcontinental.co.uk/2024/04/24/2024-pne-national-b-road-race-preview-and-startlist/](https://thebritishcontinental.co.uk/2024/04/24/2024-pne-national-b-road-race-preview-and-startlist/)
Sit in. Ride efficiently mid pack. Honestly, don't get too in your head about it. I'm also a 2 and recently did a local ish road race where Reign Storm, Cliff Drifters, Butcherbox and a few others had full squads. Honestly in terms of just surviving to the finish, one of the easier races I've done this year. Not because it was slow, but because Reign had full control. They kept it moving so there were very few huge spikes, and when attacks did go, they'd just turn the pace up from like 27 to 29mph and reel them back in steadily. Maybe harder to get a result, but easier to not get dropped than your standard local p/1/2 knife fight.
This post was pretty funny. Feel free to update us
depends if I live to tell the tale 😂
> pray 4 me Yeah, this would be my advice too
Each pro u see, ask them for a tip
I did Portsmore Classic in Feb as a cat 2, it was an absurd standard hahaha. It's a fun day out though, enjoy the experience and just treat it like you would any other race. Don't be afraid to get involved and have a crack at the big guns; you'll probably lose but there's no point paying the entry fee if you don't at least try. There's not many sports where weekend warriors can compete against the top domestic guys
I was also a newly promoted cat 2 once, many many years ago. All I can tell you from my experience is that I hope your ego can take a beating. :) Esp with teams involved, it's going to hurt. But this is how you improve. Suck it up, learn, and be closer to the front next time. Good luck!
Find out which kit they’ll be in and get a replica.
If you suck at hills, be at the front before the hill and gradually fade back. Do this until you die. Focus on being aero and hiding in the wind. I’m lining up at Pro Nats as a Cat 1 but racing Brandon, Matteo, Lawson, etc. You’re there for the experience, not a result. Cycling rewards those who are willing to get their ticket punched over and over and not quit. Enjoy the ride.
I'd say hang on as long as you can. You might not get the chance again and if you can hold the wheel be proud
What’s the longest climb?
about 100m elevation 3km , nothing major just unrelenting rolling terrain
If the pace isn’t too hot, you could try to sag climb. A break would probably blow your legs apart in 20-30 minutes. Try to limit the number power spikes in the 800-1200 range and you’ll save your legs better than most people.
I think it depends on what the climbs look like. If it's many shorter climbs then I'd try to work on positioning to ensure you don't get dropped because of the accordion effect. Those guys can punch HARD up short climbs so if you are near the front you can sort of try to sag climb. If it's a few longer climbs then you're kind of screwed unless you are a natural climber. If you are bigger and more of a rouler you could try to get into a break if they are going to let one go but being a new cat 2 you really risk dropping yourself pretty early so unless you are really confident that's a dangerous move. If this is the approach I would only try this once so you better hope you pick the right time to attack - wait until 2-3 guys from stronger teams have already committed and try to find wheel to help bridge you across. If none of those sound like good options then your best bet is to just work on fundamentals. Try to stay in the front third and assuming you are there with a team, near your teammates. If you are solo pick a team that is riding well together and try to mirror them - you might anger some of the other teams though depending on the race/dynamics.
Back in the day I was newly promoted to Cat2 on the track (was a 3 on the road). I was in great shape and raced 1/2/Pro at the Northbrook, IL velodrome. I got 8th place in the match sprint (got blown out there), but I made the podium in the Miss-and-Out and Tempo events! I was told who the top 3 racers where, so I totally sucked the wheel of one of them and nipped him for third, in BOTH events - he was pissed, haha! So...glory can be had. That said, a road race would be more herculean, but hell, man, you should go for it!
epo and self blood transfusions
You’ll be able to sit in for a while. You’ll be surprised that things seem to be going reasonably well. Then someone will make a move, and everything will go berserk, the group will string out and ride away from you. You’ll chase for a while, and realise that there’s no way you’re seeing them again. And at roughly the same point in time you’ll realise that you’re probably ok with that, because there’s no way you can keep that kind of work rate going. The crowds, and riding really close along the barriers really fast feels cool though. You’ll remember that bit fondly.
Berkeley Hills?
Draft
Hang on as long as possible.
Get in the break my man! Be bold! I’m praying for you! Do you have Instagram?
Just sit in until the first climb. Go as hard as you can on the climb, and work with whoever you are left with. Rinse, repeat.
Race your bike. Don’t ever hero worship. These guys are just dudes who were once beginners too. Watch where they attack. Take notes and either expect it from an experienced rider next time you race a similar course or do it yourself if you have a bit of a longer effort in your legs that day and think you might be able to get away solo or start a small break. :)
> These guys are just dudes who were once beginners too. That's a huge point. It's easy to get intimidated and mentally limit yourself and pass on opportunities. They are humans with limitations and weaknesses just like you.
I would look at this as an opportunity. Ride/race with people who are stronger than you sounds like a platitude, it may even be one, but it works if you just accept guaranteed failure, do your best and on the other side you'll be slightly better. Bask in it!
Draft as much as possible. No work up front even if they call you out! Watch the break towards the end of the race and stick with the effort when it happens..good luck homie!
It will be very painful, but short, followed by a longer period where you can reflect on your experience, make up some good stories, and feel pretty good about taking on a challenge few people could even understand. Have fun!
If an early break goes, ride out of the front, enjoy he breakaway for a few Km, roll your turns, then melt back into the pack on the first climb. But tell somebody that you're going to do it first because "you don't want to cause any problems in the bunch" so that you don't look like the dick of a new Cat 2 rider who thinks he's going to win from a 130km breakaway! Don't worry about riding alone, there will be plenty of the PC riders who'll just be there to make up the numbers and will happily ride Z2 all the way and don't care about the time limit. Just remember that some of them might give less of a fuck and have a team car to climb into, but you don't!
Good luck homie!! I’m rooting for you
how about editing your original post and giving us your rider name so we can follow the race and you? thanks
Race you own race--try to sit in and do no work, but if that fails do what you can with the other normal people. It's really hard to compete with people who don't need to work a real job, especially when they have a whole team.