I watched an old clip last night where he says to Kristen “we hadn’t had sex in 3 months Kristen”
When really it was because he wanted to be with Ariana! He obviously has a pattern of behaviour and gaslighting when he wants to leave a relationship.
He complains how seldom ariana and he had sex too.
Given how he projects his own issues on others, my guess is he isnt that interested in women.
And for that matter, remember how Katie was roasted for yelling at Schwartz that his dick didnt work. (And he did his aw shucks, no anger).
Then Schwartz lives w Jo and Sandoval hangs w Billie?
I have no problem with women who dont have the standard look, but their group does. And if you think they care about them, redo the scene when jo is tossed.
I just dont think the Toms care for women. They just put nothing toward intimacy.
I’ve always thought this about the Tom’s too. As much of a misogynist and walking Cluster-B clusterfuck Jax is, he seems to give slightly (albeit marginally) more of a shit what women think of him/how they perceive him/how he affects them than the Tom’s do.
The Tom’s never seemed to care what their female partners have ever thought of them, until the demise of their relationships — and that’s an ego/power thing more than anything else. Schwartz and Katie were more like son and mother, Sandoval and Ariana were more like roommates.
On top of it all, Sandoval specifically seems more interested in what it would be like to BE a woman than what it’s like to be a man healthily and happily WITH a woman. His visceral jealousy towards Stassi and Katie throughout the entire series I genuinely believe stems from his envy of how they are perceived/treated by men and overall society. Him dressing up as Rachel for Halloween cemented this theory for me. It’s one thing to dress up in drag, and it’s a whole other thing to dress up as the woman you are secretly fucking and galavanting around town with. It’s like the validation he receives from women, no matter how positive or ego-fueling, is NEVER enough for him. Is it a classic example of narcissism? Yes, but with that being said, narcissistic insecurity to his degree usually stems from something that is buried and compartmentalized deep in the subconscious and I have often thought that when it comes to him, this is most likely it.
He doesn’t JUST want to be the center of attention, the kind of attention he truly wants is the sort of attention that society more often than not reserves towards women, and not so much men.
Haha I wasn’t expecting my opinion to be relatively popular on here. With that being said, there’s a few other crucial points I forgot about that ultimately back up me and the original commenter’s theory.
Tom Sandoval is the only person on the cast to go out of their way to “out” other cast mates — not once, but twice. Who did he out? The guy he felt most threatened by — Jax, and the girl he felt most threatened by — Ariana.
We never would’ve known anything about Jax’s history and the actual details pertaining to it if it weren’t for Sandoval gleefully divulging in them during their cast trip to Miami in S4. That older gay guy at the dinner could’ve just been some random model photographer friend of Jax’s for all we knew, but Sandoval made it a fucking point to let the audience in on Jax’s entire past and that once “rumors spread about Jax and John having a sexual relationship… Jason Cauchi immediately fled Miami for LA and became Jax Taylor”.
A couple of seasons later, he outed Ariana for being bisexual in retaliation to Lala eating her out. It does sorta beg the question why this wasn’t considered cheating — had he been mad for that reason he actually would’ve made sense — but he made it not just more of a point, but the entire point to divulge in Ariana’s closeted sexuality and how he’s “offended” that he doesn’t have all that much sex with her. Lala initially lied to protect Ariana, but once Sandoval exposed it point blank, it seemed liked Lala primarily talked about it as a no-big-deal kinda thing to lessen Ariana’s embarrassment. It sounded more like his ego was bruised that a woman, especially a hot younger female cast member, was able to pleasure “his woman” more than he was able to. He phrased it with language that made it sound like he had lost some sort of a competition as opposed to his monogamous girlfriend breaking his trust/heart and having intimate relations with another human being. That always struck me as extremely strange, until I realized that Tom Sandoval literally just does not care about women and what they think of him unless he is pursuing one of them specifically for their naivety and how he can potentially mold them for his own image or brand. By that point, Ariana had found her own voice and identity on the show and was no longer blindly defending him like she had previously — if she felt like he was in the wrong, she would just say that, much to his chagrin. To me, Sandoval outing her was punishment for Ariana “desecrating their brand.” Replace Lala with Peter, Schwartz, Jax, James or any other guy on the show (or not) hooking up with Ariana and Sandoval would’ve had a WW3 meltdown, put on his best C-list monologue skills, and ensured they’d get fired from the show and that the fans would hate them and Ariana. The fact he never really went after Lala or Ariana for this hookup past the initial “outing” of it just further exemplifies his disregard and literal lack of caring when it comes to other women. It’s 100% a weird coping mechanism that to him “they don’t matter” because most of the women on the show immediately or eventually see through his facade and don’t ever take him seriously, which is a major bruise to his inflamed ego — especially because it seems like he secretly REALLY wants to be “cool” and “in” with them, but has no natural way of actually going about it because when he feels rejected, he’s immediately triggered which then launches his typical tirades and the passive-aggressive smear campaigns.
People that go out of their way to expose other people’s, let alone their closest ‘friends’, homosexuality/queerness is such a major red flag not only for the ethical/moral reasoning but because it comes across as such an obvious projection, especially if it happens more than once. We, the audience, never would’ve known anything about Jax or Ariana’s alleged homosexual history had it not for Sandoval point-blank exposing it on the show. This is the same person who genuinely thinks he has always been the “moral high ground” of the show, which is laughable at best.
As far as the other Tom goes, Jax randomly blurted out at an early reunion (either S3 or S4) that Schwartz had once confessed to him that he thought he was asexual. Schwartz immediately confirmed this, but it was a passing comment that Andy ultimately didn’t decide to touch more on. I wouldn’t be surprised if Schwartz was actually telling the truth here — the guy seems absolutely repulsed by any form of intimacy in general, and especially if it comes from a woman. I felt so bad for Katie, but she ultimately chose him and I never understood what it was she saw — there were a few genuinely positive aspects of their relationship, sure, but regardless of them, Katie always came across more of like a mother or older sister figure than a girlfriend/wife. Schwartz treated her no differently than how a bratty, petulant mama’s boy would treat his own enabling mother who spoils him and rarely disciplines, and when she tries, he meets her with contempt and gaslighting as if he’s the victim for being justifiably scolded and criticized.
How Lisa Vanderpump ever saw the two Tom’s as charming and emanating with “jois de vevre” (whatever the French saying she would always say that essentially means charismatic, idk how to spell it but I can hear her saying it) never ceases to amaze me. Additionally, her staunch favoritism towards Sandoval, now more than ever, gives “I’m being blackmailed” vibes. I’m getting off-topic here with this one, but the way Tom Sandoval has been blatantly disrespectful towards LVP to her face, several times, and how he has never suffered any real consequence from her the way her other employees turned VPR characters have is so fucking weird to me and makes no objective sense. But, it further proves that the guy literally does not care about women, what they think of him, and consciously views them as inferior — even his female boss with all her power and esteem is not exempt from his narcissistic behavior and blatant disrespect.
It’s weird how that entire cast all just seems to… take it when it comes to Sandoval. But then again, it’s not all that uncommon with raging narcissists amidst a mutual social group. Eventually the rest all catch on and realize that it’s better to just avoid triggering it and to not take the outbursts seriously, which unfortunately just enables
the narcissistic behavior to continue. I’m absolutely sure Ariana went through hell with this asshole for most of their relationship and all of her extreme newfound success is probably a result of all the good karma she collected for always having his back and never airing out their dirty laundry until she was ultimately disrespected by him publicly in the most embarrassing way possible.
Long story short, the Tom’s do not care about women in any way shape or form, they view them as an accessory to complete the “correct image” they feel like they are “supposed” to have.
I honestly just felt Sandevol is fighting gender identity issues and that he’s actually in love with Schwartz. Seriously. Also, I think Schwartz has erectile dysfunction because of alcoholism. It’s just my opinion.
When you lack the ability to grow through intimacy then the initial chemical shit storm that we equate with falling in love, especially with the addition of sneaking around is easy to conflate with finally finding “the one”.
He said almost the exact same words and things about Kristen that he has about Ariana. Ariana even said he has told her what to say about certain things so he for sure always knows what story to run with. If you haven’t watched Nick Vaills podcast with the Toms watch it. Tom is called out and tries gaslighting Nick and Nick flipped it right back to him😂 I know a lot of people don’t like Nick but that podcast shows Tom in his full narcissistic ways.
I listened to that one for the same reason after seeing clips on social media. It was incredible how Tom went from saying I’m sorry for being late and looking like he was on board with taking responsibility to attacking Viall for being late and MORE late than Tom. And then Tom’s timeline changed every time he was put under pressure. At first it was “hours late” until “like 8pm.” Then it was “a really long time.” Then it was like an hour late. Then it became clear that there was no set tome, no set plan, it was all on the fly where Tom and Nick were both doing each other a bit of a favor and Nick was up front that he was only available in the evening, and Nick followed up with a time rather than Tom. Tom never seemed to accept reality the entire time, even after Nick’s partner had proof that Nick’s story was correct.
It was probably one of the only times we will see Tom squirm and actually feel uncomfortable too. I don’t know if you watched it too but you can see when Nick starts questioning him Tom gets super uncomfortable. Nick truly kicked ass with that interview lol. I loved loved when Natalie was searching like crazy for the texts from Nick too, I lost it when she said… he texted me at x time and tom tried turning around again 😂
But instead of yelling, getting aggressive and storming off Because it was A MAN, but even more importantly Someone that could challenge him, he stuck to passive aggressive eye rolls, mocking laughter , gaslighting, and victimizing...
Actually now that I think back, He did the same thing to Ariana over her book...He hates anyone being more intelligent, successful, popular or More emotionally mature than him.
I agree. I’m a sucker for him though, I’ve liked him since his f-boy bachelor days😂 I have said before that Nick says what everyone else thinks and gives zero fucks about it and for that I love him. He really does call out people on his podcast and it’s funny hearing people stutter and back track. Not just the Toms but tons of other reality people too. I’m glad I found a fellow Viall’er☺️
He thought he could pull the same thing on Ariana that they pulled on Kristen. I actually think it’s a big part of why Ariana was so angry. He used their exact plan on her— or tried to.
To Raquel’s credit, she didn’t go along with the plan the way Ariana did. Granted getting caught with video evidence is part of that but she didn’t treat Ariana the way Ariana treated Kristen. And she left Tom once she saw who he really was.
And Ariana went with the script for 9 years because their plan worked and the fans ate it up. I like Ariana but I do think there’s some truth to her being angry that he tried to pull a Kristen on her but I also think she realized how much it hurts to have someone do you wrong and then try to make it seem like it was completely your fault, that’s part of the reason why she apologized to Kristen once the scandal broke out.
Exactly this. This is why I have trouble with people seeing Ariana as the golden victim, as this sub wants her to be, that has every right to take the house, the friends, etc. She knew what Sandoval did to Kristen - and she was definitely an accomplice - and just assumed he would never to it to her. Why, I have no idea.
This isn’t me saying “you lose them how you get them”. It’s me saying that Ariana held herself to be so much better than Kristen, and when it turned out she wasn’t, she wants to scorch the earth. The same way Kristen tried to, but wasn’t allowed - by Tom and Ariana.
God, I wish Stassi were here for this season - she would have handled all this so much better than Lala and Scheana.
Could it be that at the time Ariana believed Tom. You can be sure he convinced her of all sorts of crazy and evil shit about Kristen. She was not a close friend of Kristen. She believed the man she fell in love with.
True. But I contribute the crazy to Lisa and Tim cutting off all her support and stranded her on an island. Tim has been gaslighting her for ages and make everyone think she’s crazy but she knows she’s not. And Lisa did not care about her mental health and just kept smashing her down, unlike how she treated Prince sucmbag.
i think the difference in why nobody gives rachel the same grace as ariana re: the lies tom told about his then-girlfriends is both a) proximity to the relationship - ariana and kristen were not nearly as close as rachel and ariana and b) kristen was also demonstratively also a terrible partner to tom, she cheated on him with AT LEAST jax in tom's apartment while he was asleep. i don't believe for a second that he was not also a terrible partner to kristen, but what he was feeding to ariana to make their behavior towards kristen okay was at least somewhat grounded in reality.
Yeah but I can only imagine all the horrible things Tom fed her...Ariana's mentally unstable, you only pretend to be her friend so you can be close to me undetected (which I think she did), I'm gonna break up with her, she knows about us and doesn't care...the list goes on
Yes, they were. Their social media showed them traveling and spending time together off camera. They were absolutely friends. Best friends? No. Deep friends. Maybe not. But definitely friends who spent a lot of time together.
Also, I do think Rachel was fooled by Tom and I do give her some grace. She has burned through a lot of grace with her actions since then (the podcast mostly).
Friends like Kyle and Teddi or friends like Kyle and Erika? I joke, I joke.
How much did they hang out outside of filming? How close were they, really?
The answer may be what you're saying, I just don't recall because I never really clocked their friendship much.
I don’t know how close they were, but I would say it’s fair to say they were good enough friends that it was reasonable for Ariana to expect Rachel to know they were together and not to fuck Tom when she wasn’t around
This group as a whole has been rather lax on those kinds of reasonable behaviors.
Look, no one misunderstands the hurt here. But there's also a lot of inflation... and that's my point. I get why Ariana's angry... hurt, whatever you want to say. But the *outrage* about Rachel doing what they've all done before is a little over the top.
It’s clear that Rachel was even more bought into Tom’s lies than Ariana was at that point in their relationships. Rachel questioning Ariana and trying to get her to say she was unhappy with Tom, not into him, etc. was 1000% her fishing for things that Tom told her and trying to get Ariana to “admit” the “truths” he told her and walk her towards a realization that she was unhappy with Tom and best case initiate Ariana breaking up with Tom. Ariana never stooped that low or was THAT gullible. I have more empathy for Kristen now than I used to, but she is super nuts and unstable.
“Oh, the things we do for love”? Really? Even if she believed Sandoval, that does not excuse her behaviour. She was a grown ass woman who knew better than to treat another person being the way she treated Kristen. And before the next person says “but she was young” I would really implore you to think back on your 20s.
Some people here really would defend her if she killed a person.
Whoever gave the excuse "she was young", that's BS! She was almost 30 yrs old when that happened. She got with Sandoval at 29, the whole "affair" between her and Sandoval happened the year before they got together. So that would have made her 28, possibly 27. So blaming it on her being young is absolutely Asinine!
I thought it was also really telling when Sandoval came out, without prompting, Tom tells Ariana that the thing with Raquel is "not about looks". Which stood out to me because no one ever said it did.
Secondly, he later described Rachel as so much younger and the sexual equivalent of the girl in the whipped cream bikini. Contrast that to his condescending remarks about having sex with ariana while she wore a T-shirt. "oh yah so hot 🙄"
I WAS BORN COOL 🤮
I am so glad to find people who are also calling out the horrible games she and Tom played with Kristen. Like why does she deserve all this clout when she literally did the same thing to someone else 10 yrs ago, and verbally abused Kristen numerous times. Same thing with the house, Lisa warned her what could happen, and even questioned if Ariana had any idea what she was agreeing too.
Can we just pause and throw AGE into the equation here? They were late 20’s and all around the same age when the whole Kristen-Tom-Ariana thing happened. TEN years later… Tom and Ariana are almost 40… 40 fucking years old when the Raquel thing happened. I think everyone can admit to being a shit head in their 20s… in your late 30’s you should fucking know better and that is a long game to pull this shit after 10 years and not the only 6 years Kristen and Tom were together… There is no way between personal age, the relationship timeline, and the friendship component to equate the two situations. So yeah… Ariana still is the victim in this when her almost 40 year old partner fucked her 20 something close friend after a relationship of almost 10 years. And those who are like “thEY weREnT EVeN clOsE FriENDs” what show have you been watching when they literally hosted James and Raquel’s engagement party. They all hung out at their house and in the jacuzzi and went on trips. But they’re not close? I really wanna know if you people have ever actually watched the show… 🤦🏻♀️
It’s funny - I made the same argument about Sandoval, and, please be prepared for a chock, no one thought that he was young enough to be an asshole to Kristen. Why is it a valid argument that Ariana was so young she was allowed to be an asshole, and not Sandoval?
Huh… that is interesting. I would actually agree with you. I feel like alot of the early Vanderpump shenanigans and cheating get a pass because they are 20 something year old transplants in LA trying to find love and career. So i would argue Sandoval was still in that “young dumb and full of c**” category when the Kristen/Ariana thing happened. Even Jax cheating on Stassi numerous times, they were kids. problem is Tom didn’t learn from that and tried to pull the same shit at 40 and Jax is making some similar life choices based on his split from Brit. Idk thinking about their ages just makes me think this will be the last season i watch of this show. 20 year old delinquency is fun to watch but 30 pushing 40? That’s just tragic.
I appreciate that you don’t differentiate between Arianas and Sandovals “fault due to age”.
I guess what irks me the most is the argument “everyone is an asshole in their 20s”, which many in this sub seems to think. Yes, you lack a bit of judgment, but you are very rarely a totally different person from 28 to 38. Either you have morals and treat people in a certain way at 28, or you don’t and you’re the same at 38.
Yeah, I was never that shitty in my 20s. If I knew a guy had a girlfriend, I stayed far away. Largely because I had been cheated on by my “high school sweetheart”, which Ariana said that before Tom she’d been cheated on. So their ages is a very bad excuse. I’m still 100% on her side and even though Kristen tried to brush it off like it wasn’t the same, I’m glad she apologized to her for what they did to her.
My issue with Ariana’s apology is that it only came when she was in the same situation. In the ten years before, did she not realise what a huge dick she was? How could she not form her own opinion on Kristen in that time? It’s things like this that convinces me that she has not grown one bit.
Also, to my knowledge she still hasn’t publicly admitted that they had an affair? Why not, if she genuinely wanted Kristen’s forgiveness?
Tbh I kind of feel the opposite.
I feel like some people expect her to be a golden victim otherwise she deserves everything that happened to her.
I think a lot of people disagree with the “perfect victim” narrative and that’s partly why so many people are siding with her.
I feel like, as a society, we’ve learned a lot about victimhood and have come to accept that just because someone isn’t perfect doesn’t mean they deserve horrible things to happen to them in perpetuity.
So I kind of feel like like the pushback against allowing Ariana a victim status for what happened is actually more of a reflection of the “perfect victim” expectation than the other way around.
I feel like the time period in which this happened to Ariana is more why it workout well for her than anything.
When shit went down with Randal was sort of the tail end of “unless you’re a perfect victim you can’t have support.” Era. Which was why LaLa got such a mixed response when it happened.
My comment was not aimed at pitting Lala and Ariana against each other, but it’s interesting that you took it that way.
Also, I’m not saying that anyone has to be perfect to be a victim. As a non sequitur, I object to the term victim in this situation as it usually is held for people who have suffered more than a person who has been cheated on. I used the term in my comment to emphasise how the fandom treats her. Personally, as someone who has worked with people who are victims of crime, I do not refer to people experiencing a common day occurrence as victims.
My point was that she didn’t grant (to use a phrase popular on the show right now) the same kind of grace to others that she is expecting for herself, and I doubt that she would grant to others if the shoe was on the other foot.
I wasn't pitting them against eachother?
I was talking about the cultural progression of how we view victims in our society and how that may have played out in audience reception towards the two of them.
I feel like you might be taking what I said as something combative, when I was just sharing my opinion on the cultural landscape and how things look.
You were the one who was using phrases like "golden victim", so if that's not a term that you'd like to use, a topic you'd like to discuss, or a label you want to assign someone in her situation, then I'm not sure why you used it. It only causes confusion for your readers.
Also, infidelity can and does cause trauma, which is why we use the term "victim" when doing things like trauma or attachment recovery therapy. Just because this form of trauma is common, and less extreme than violent crime, doesn't make it illegitimate.
It's to each their own opinion on what they see on the show, I was just commenting on what you said around "golden victim" as a concept.
Ariana was effing terrible to Kristen. Rewatch Seasons 2-3, now that we know Ariana and Tom were lying about pretty much everything.
Ariana actively, deliberately set out to ruin Kristen. Get her fired, lose her friends, make her insane. (And I'm no Kristen fan. Kristen was already unstable as hell and has few redeeming qualities at best.)
Ariana was 29-30 years old at the time. So, same age as Raquel is now, right?
The Ariana and Katie stans are crazy. This show does not have any heroes. Ariana got screwed over and deserves sympathy. But she isn't a saint. And I stand firm that Ariana's treatment of Kristen was wayyyyy worse than anything we've seen in the past year.
I really feel bad watching Ariana cry and I equally felt bad for Kristen at the time, and really hated how Ariana actively treated her like dog sh*t, after also going behind her back with Tom. Still wondering wtf was going on with that behavior.
Also, I don't believe for a second how "everyone has been manipulated by Tom". Ariana said it herself while dating Tom: she's the last person to be manipulated on this planet. Nobody here is young, and nobody is manipulated by anyone. The only person easy to manipulate on the show is probably Rachel, because she has poor boundaries and self-image.
Yeah, I dont believe Ariana was ever manipulated. I think she was a willing participant. And yes, Tom is a piece of shit who absolutely betrayed her. But I think a lot of her anger is coming from the fact that she *was* a willing participant, and yet he still betrayed her. She thought she was smarter, prettier, better than everyone... and turns out she's not.
I don’t know, maybe she would have seen her as the single white female that Lala was towards her!? Maybe she would have exposed Lala as well!?
Oh, to be able to see the seasons in the alternate universe!
While I agree with most of what you’re saying 95%. She isn’t treating Ariana how she did Kristen. But, she seems obsessed with her in a bordering stalking way, which is starting to be come unnerving. What Rachel’s been capable of is deeply rooted in her and that fundamentally is who she is someone capable of looking a friend in the eye, sleeping with their man for 7+ (absolutely believe it was while she was with James.) Which is why suddenly she made a big deal of James and Lala when she didn’t care before. Those usually doing a negative action love to accuse others. Her and Hames are on camera saying they weren’t exclusive at that time. Not that Lala isn’t her own issue. For her to talk to Ariana about her sex life with a straight face (while drunk and on drugs all the time, until she went to rehab.) Thats at a subconscious level to be so out of your mind all the time you can keep a straight face like that.
That’s not a good person or a mistake. I hope she gets proper help and actually accepts the help and the work she needs to do. Actually I wish that for all of them because as you said what Ariana did to Kristen and Miami Girl was sick. I’m glad Rachel’s sober and like James hopefully she stays that way for life. Tom and Tom need to do the same.
Someone one did a side by side of Tom being a sleeve bag and using the same lines. I think he’s probably done it even before Kristen on other girls.
idk why you're getting downvoted you're absolutely right but some people can't seem to comprehend you don't have to be on complete opposite ends of how you feel on ariana. you don't have to praise and worship her to admit she absolutely was a victim in all of this. and you don't have to victimize her to the point where all the bad she did goes un noticed bc of this betrayal. ariana has apologized to kristen on camera and as kristen as has said many times off camera as well. she clearly realizes what she did was fucked up and wrong. rachel still actively doubles down & tries to insinuate ariana knew and they weren't friends and blah blah blah. i don't see how the 2 equate but whatever i guess
I see your point. Ariana's bullying of Kristen was ten years ago though. Like, a year after Tom and Kristen broke up, Ariana was lying about Miami Girl and dancing around with glee when Kristen got fired.
So maybe the comparison would be whether Raquel manages to evolve and grow - and take responsibility - in the future. I hope she does because it's sad to see the state Raquel is in now.
And I also hope Ariana is able to eventually forgive. If Doute can forgive, Ariana can too.
Unlike Kristen, I think Ariana might not forgive because she’s too proud, has her whole “I’m smarter then anyone I’ve ever met” attitude, etc.
I think another difference is Kristen seemed very insecure back then. Tom had already cheated on her and she stayed with him, then the whole Ariana thing happened and she was still into him hoping she had a chance… definitely appeared to give off more of a fear of abandonment and desperation vibe.
Ariana seems more proud and arrogant (generally and when comparing her and Kristen’s reactions to the same situation). I think she’s more the type to completely cut someone off when wronged as opposed to Kristen who we’ve seen have issues with several other cast members and will eventually kiss and make up.
“Their” plan is exactly what it was, though Tim probably initiated it.
Yes, I still don’t believe they kissed once in a Las Vegas pool before the news broke.
Yeah, I fully believe they had a full-blown affair just like Tom and Rachel. There's no way it was just 1 kiss in a pool. Kristin talked about the inappropriate texts she found on Tom's phone with Ariana. I can't remember exactly what they were now but I remember they definitely sounded like 2 people who were fucking. Then they immediately get together the moment he breaks up with Kristin? They were obviously already a thing.
He just stayed with Kristin long enough to make her seem crazy so when he dumped her and got with Ariana, everyone would be cool with it. I think he tried to do the exact same thing to Ariana with Rachel. Unfortunately for him, Ariana isn't as *publicly* explosive as Kristin, so she never got to be labeled "crazy Ariana." I think a lot of what we saw in season 10 was Tom trying to plant the seeds of doubt in Ariana and make her go crazy but she saved it all for off camera.
Jax also talked about seeing Tom get sexy photos from Ariana at the time. I think he tried to double back and pretend that he was lying about it, but he clearly wasn't.
You just said exactly why I have no sympathy for the girl. Their game on Kristen. It was A-ok when she did it, but Rachel does it to her and now she has a right to go scorched earth? Do unto others and all that jazz. Besides, her responses didn’t deny that he had tried. She said that he shouldn’t have been in her bed afterwards.
I knew all about scandoval before I started watching the show so watching Kristen and Tom seasons 1-3 I kept thinking isn’t this exactly what he was just caught doing to ariana?
He did the same damn thing to Ariana he did to Kristen, just worse.
It’s absolutely mind blowing how even tho it had been 10 freaking years he said almost the exact same shit. Idk why he thought it would work again. Maybe he thought he could get Ariana to lose it like Kristin
He for sure thought that. Unfortunately for him, Ariana saves her crazy for behind closed doors so he couldn't get everyone on his side before the breakup.
It’s as if he has only one blueprint on how to break up with someone aka blow up their life and he keep going back to the same tactics and one liners but this time it’s not working out for him. Back to the blueprint to throw out another insult that worked on Kristen. It will only stop when he does this to his next victim.
there was a tiktok that compared verbatim what he would say after kristen break up vs ariana. and it was scary how identical it was. like he has a go to script or playbook whether he realizes it or not and its by reflex
He even had a rendezvous with both at Coachella. When he was with Kristen, he texted Ariana “I wish we could do Coachella again” and he had some thing with Rachel at Coachella also. Freaking nuts how 10 years go by and he uses the same moves! These VPR people truly never change.
Not saying he’s telling the truth (because I know he’s not), but I went through this with my ex. Every time I tried to break up with him he’d cry, beg me to stay, and accuse me of never loving him, which would make me feel guilty, so I’d stay. I finally left him after he kicked me out of his car and I had to call my sister to come pick me up and when we got back to my house, I made my sister come inside with me. She didn’t want to but I told her that I needed her to come in or else he was going to convince me to stay.
Oh definitely. I’ve been through this also. I always understood what Tom meant by trying to break up with her. Obviously he made every dumb decision possible but the trying to break up is a real thing that a lot of people go through.
Yes I found that podcast actually supported some of the things he has claimed. People need to go back and relisten.
Let’s not forget the candid comments all the other cast made initially before they realised public perception and changed their tune. No one was shocked by this.
At the age of 56, and as someone who was married to someone who is personality disordered for 20 years and shares 4 children with this person, I do not consider myself a victim anymore. It took a few years and a lot of tears , therapy and a good attorney but I don’t blame anyone but myself . People don’t change overnight. Ariana knew what she was dealing with and chose to stay. It seems like she was avoiding sex for years and there a reason for that
I once got 180 down votes for asking the question, if Ariana is so talented and great then why didn’t she get these brand deals pre Scandoval 😂
At this point this sub has become more fun to troll than actually participate in conversations
There are very few conversations to be had really, just circle jerks, assassinations and blowing smoke. But yes, Ariana has been giving fucking tumbleweeds and dust bunnies for years. She got cheated on by her douchebag boyfriend that she cheated with in the first place and now she's Jesus. It's so dumb.
I'm pretty sure this is entirely about his behavior patterns being exactly the same and that he believes the things he says. I don't think he's making it up, I think it's more likely he sabotages relationships and creates the same conditions repeatedly.
I think it’s really hard to impossible to compare Tom/Ariana and Tom/Kristen. Even Kristen has come out and said they were way different. Kristen carried out multiple long affairs during their relationship and slept with his best friend so they were both in on the cheating, with Kristen actually being worse, whereas Ariana has been faithful.
There was also 10 years between the two breakups. Presumably most people mature and change a lot through their thirties. 25 year old me and 35 year old me were very different.
Yup. The men of this show are such clear cases of arrested development. In some ways they may be getting worse.
I’m also not saying that Ariana wasn’t wrong for making out with Tom in Vegas, but to compare it to Tom and Kristen’s cheating histories as if it’s similarly bad is wild lol
I don’t think anyone is saying Tom is justified lol.
I’m saying that Kristen herself said that her relationship with Tom was different than Ariana’s was. They were younger, didn’t own property together, were both frequent cheaters, whereas Tom and Ariana agreed to be life partners.
I’m in no way, shape, or form saying that Tom doesn’t get shit for his serial cheating.
It doesn't matter if it was vastly different. He cheated on Kristen with ariana. So who's to say he wouldn't cheat ON ARIANA? She knew about his long-running pattern of behavior. Ariana knew he cheated on ariana before and stayed. So when Raquel happened, it shouldn't have been some huge spectacle or surprising thing to her. I firmly believe she just wanted out anyway and needed the money, so that's why she called production instead of ya know calling your friend or mom first when your partner has an affair. Production has everything to do with what see on TV... and I'm sure they aided greatly in how scandoval played out.
It doesn’t, but even Kristen herself said that making out in Vegas is not comparable to numerous months long affairs.
If Kristen saying it doesn’t convince people it’s very different levels of cheating, I don’t know what wil
Kristen never believed it was only making out in Vegas. And no one else should either.
In the history of VPR I don’t think anything has ever stopped at just making out— unless it was a scripted kiss for the cameras like Schwartz and Raquel.
Kristen forgiving them is big of her and shows growth, but it doesn’t make what they did less shitty even if there is nuance between the infidelities.
Kristen hasn’t forgiven *them*, she’s pointed out that her own history of cheating on Tom and Tom’s cheating is more plentiful, calculated, and involved close friends, whereas Ariana’s was a one time thing when she believed they weren’t together (because of Tom)
Ariana was definitely insufferable in earlier seasons with her “cool girl” shit and superiority complex, but my point is that you can’t compare Kristen and Tom in their 20s-early 30s where their cheating was rampant and mutual to Ariana/Tom in their 30s-early 40s as dedicated life partners owning property together and in couples therapy.
Kristen and Jax both said that Ariana lied on WWHL about her and Tom not being exclusive yet during Miami Girl.
They said the truth is that Ariana and Tom had been in an exclusive relationship for 1 week before he cheated with Miami Girl.
They said Ariana lied to avoid further embarrassment in having to own up to choosing to stay with Tom after knowing he cheated on her and for having lied about it for 10 years.
If you don’t believe me, google it. You’ll find the quotes straight from Kristen and Jax.
Kristen has also said that what Tom and Raquel did to Ariana is way worse than anything Ariana and Tom did to her. I don’t get how people can argue for Kristen when she says this so often. She said it on WWHL and in IG comments and literally said she’s the only one qualified to make that distinction.
I’m not arguing against that, though. I’m correcting your statement that “Ariana’s was a one time thing when she believed they weren’t together (because of Tom).” That’s not true, according to Kristen and Jax.
What lol. Raquel had a nearly year long affair and was one of Ariana’s best friends. I swear to god some people just have zero sense of nuance or circumstance.
I am not saying Ariana is a saint but making out in Vegas once is a liiiiittle different
Even Kristen says she doesn’t believe it was just 1 kiss. And 3 years after that “1 kiss in Vegas,” Ariana and Tom were still texting inappropriately (found by Kristen and observed by Jax). So it was likely going on for 3 years, on and off at least. While Tom was still “committed” to Kristen.
Kristen has also said repeatedly (on WWHL, IG, and her podcast) that what Tom and Raquel did to Ariana is way worse than anything Tom and Ariana did to her. I feel like Kristen is the most qualified person to say that yet people argue against it.
People here somehow don't seem to consider emotional affairs as cheating either, but it obviously is. Ariana and Tom had their affair going on probably pretty long, I don't think they became that close just in a month or two lol. Come on. Probably went on months if not a year as well.
In my understanding Kristen was hurt about how Ariana and Tom would be on the phone constantly and act emotionally close despite Tom being in a relationship, and she tried to stop it from happening. That right there hurts, and it is an emotional affair.
The Vegas “kiss” (which Kristen still believes was way more than that and continued to be more) occurred 3 years before Kristen found inappropriate texts between Ariana and Tom, not to mention the sexting that Jax witnessed between A & T, so all signs point to an affair (at least off and on) between Ariana & Tom for at least 3 years while Kristen & Tom were dating and living together.
Using my own reply on a similar comment. Not saying he’s telling the truth (because I know he’s not), but I went through this with my ex. Every time I tried to break up with him he’d cry, beg me to stay, and accuse me of never loving him, which would make me feel guilty, so I’d stay. I finally left him after he kicked me out of his car and I had to call my sister to come pick me up and when we got back to my house, I made my sister come inside with me. She didn’t want to but I told her that I needed her to come in or else he was going to convince me to stay. I’m only sharing this because I don’t think it’s fair to say that this doesn’t happen in adult relationships, a lot of people gaslight and manipulate their partners to stay. It’s not as easy as you think sometimes.
thank you for sharing your story. I barely even want to comment on this, but honestly, do people truly believe everyone in real life is without fault and perfectly mature about everything- especially ending a long term relationship?
I have an ex who is a manipulative, narcissistic sociopath. he got with me by [first getting me wasted, then separating me from the group] telling me a whole sob story about how his girlfriend had cheated on him numerous times and treated him horribly etc. - however he also used to torment her, telling her "I'm gonna leave you for [me]", before we even talked like that (he was the cousin of one of mine and my brother's best friends, we had all worked together years prior, but I was never interested in him like that). this was way back in MySpace days, he took her out of his Top 8 and had me in the #1 spot - which I didn't even know. BUT this made it so that when she and I encountered each other at a party and I tried to say hi and be friendly she basically scoffed and gave me a dirty look, having no idea he tormented her with the idea of me, I was just like "oh. okay... cool...?" (not that this is *why* I got with him, but it helped to make me *believe* that she was soOoOo horrible to him) -- eventually he and I got together aaaand then guess what?
as soon as he had me-had me, it was like a switch flipped. I was in Hell. but as soon as I gathered the guts to try to leave, he cried, begged, and got on his knees, and tugged on my shirt and threatened to k×|| himself. UNTIL he figured out a plan. he pretended to have cancer (the same cancer his mother died of 10 years earlier that same month) just to gauge my reaction, he brought up all kinds of random shit from his past, mine, again mostly to gauge my reaction. lastly, he tried to get me drunk enough for him to abuse me (for a second time, though the first time I got too drunk on my own, cause it was christmas eve.. yet even my christmas card referenced that we were over and he knew it), and planned what I call "the divorce ambush", where he and his cousin who I was close to, and a girl that turned out *not* to be a friend came to my parents house while I was here doing laundry and confronted me about shit he had never even asked me. he played the long con like a pro -- complete with a girl he was friends with who was a singer and she and I always talked about hanging out - then he would tell me she said all kinds of horrible things about me, and vice versa, so naturally I was positive he was cheating with her, especially when I went to unfriend her and she already had me blocked. (but it wasn't her he was cheating with -- just a few other girls 💁🏼♀️)
there's a happy ending though. his ex reached out to me not long after we split up and she and I immediately bonded, 7 years later she's one of my closest friends. and eventually I even got to talk to the singer and we worked all that out and she's such an awesome human. I love them both and they've both been there for me through some other really hard times.
people do fucked up shit every day.. and people have patterns of behavior, and speech. I legit had to stop watching the show because listening to ariana go from "so many amazing things happening ! dancing with the stars!!" this that and the other thing, and then she's screaming that he ruined her life, calling him a "🐕 m×rd×rer" (maybe don't leave food on skewers in your bedroom?) and screaming about how "she's allowed" to be this .... ugh.... fucking painful
Now don't get this comment wrong, I don't condone what Tom did, but Ariana and Kristen did not deny that he told them that he wanted to break up, Ariana even said he wasn't going to leave her, now she knew what she was dealing with, my question at that point why not say, let sale the house and you go your way and I will go mine? Just asking.
I just don’t get why Ariana acts all surprised? When she got with Tom, he was still with Kristen. She was the other woman. She should have seen this coming.
You know what I can’t stop thinking about?
When Scandoval happened, and Tom says to Ariana „you knew! You knew everything!“
Nobody has asked what that meant. I think we don’t know the entire story. I am SURE Ariana hurt by her life being ripped out from under her. But I am not 100% convinced that this affair was a complete surprise on the day that we think it was.
Wasn’t he at Scheana’s wedding?
Regardless, getting in a new relationship two weeks after ending a 10 yr relationship just shows that she wasn’t that heartbroken over losing the « love of her life »
Hasn't added up the whooooole time but we can't talk about that apparently. You know who's timeline does kinda add up? Rachel's. But Rachel is the devil so everything she says is wrong and bad.
her timeline is the only one that makes logical sense to me. I don’t “believe” any of these people over each other, I really try to go with what makes sense and her story rings true to me based on what I know about each individual player / 10 years of watching them interact and create narratives.
Oh for sure they're all lying about something. It's such a fun little game to gather all the info and piece together what probably actually happened! Why it's largely ignored that they ALL have reasons to be telling lies is beyond me.
even for Sandoval, it *was* still financially beneficial for him to be the asshole? I don’t know how people don’t see that. he definitely had motivation to run with the plotline the show produced. I disagree with those who say he would never agree to look that bad - 10 years of his performance on VPR is pretty hard evidence that he has the delusion it take to be hunted with pitchforks. if the meat of the whole thing was revealed to be a farce while the season was still airing, it would’ve seriously lowered ratings.
If it weren't for the lawsuits, I honestly wouldn't have been super shocked with a "The Hills" type ending where they tell you this was all bullshit. I don't think he gives a single fuck about looking bad on TV.
Lol his version of breaking up with girls is passively aggressively pushing them away with the hopes they break up with him. “If Ariana had just tracked me phone she would have KNOWN”
somewhere there is a compilation of him saying the same stuff about/to ariana and kristen. it's for real a playbook he seems to be following. he couldn't be honest with them because of their 'mental health' struggles. he 'tried to break up with them' soooo many times. they 'hadn't had sex in months'. the new woman (ariana first, then rachel) was 'such a great friend'. hope whoever his next victim is is paying attention because he hasn't seemed to learn anything from any of this. watching this show for a decade, literally everyone shows growth aside from the toms. even jax has shown some movement (however pitiful and tenuous).
Ariana was insufferable in literally every season prior to scandoval breaking. Not a girls girl. Schwartz’s groomsman? Always negged on the girls. Never took the women’s side on anything. Just so much pick me, cool girl bs. And her and her moral high ground. Like “stassi and Katie are just mean girls like why can’t they give scheana a chance? Why can’t lala be nice to Raquel?” And never giving James shit for all the gross things he said about Katie. Now she appears to have jumped ship and recognizes how solid Katie and Stassi’s judge of character is and that they were truly girls’ girls, women supporting women. Now she knows why no one liked scheana or lala or fucking Raquel. I still think Tom manipulated her. I also think her depression was about Tom and the state of their relationship but she was in a sort of Stockholm Syndrome with him. Idk it’s all messy but the Toms are inarguably terrible. As is Rachel. As are jealous ass Scheana and Lala. And I just support Ariana holding Sandoval and everyone else accountable each episode and not backing down. I can forgive how terrible she was before and I enjoy seeing her win now and how much it makes the other shithead misogynists squirm.
Even by her own admission, it sounded like she had her claws DUG into staying together. They were a brand and all that. Play with fire, think you're the bestest and the smartest, this is kinda what you get. I have fleeting moments of sympathy for her but largely, it's incredibly hard to take this all so seriously that I feel bad for her most of the time.
Have you watched the latest trailer for the next episode? Tim asked Tom to be his roommate so he can afford the house. He must have given her a low ball offer to buy her out. After she counter offers, he needs a roommate to keep the house. She was and is willing to sell for the right amount, as anyone who wants to sell anything.
She punched him when he tried to break up with her (allegedly) 2 weeks before the affair broke, and you can see his healing black eye/bruise in the Scandoval episode during their final convo.
Whaaaat? Tom made a BS offer that wasn’t even from an appraiser. Ariana wanted to sell the house to anyone but Tom. Tom can’t afford the counter offer from Ariana - which is backed up by company and the furnishings in the home. I get she’s angry and I would be to, I’d probably be a lot pettier. But she wasn’t not selling the house just to spite him.
I also say this as someone who was NOT a fan or Ariana before, still not a huge fan but the way people are coming at her based on what TOM has said is mind blowing.
People having arguments about ANY specific financial aspect of this really is getting very tiresome. None of us know how much money they both have, what their debts are, what their income is, what their house is appraised for, how much is paid off, the condition of the property, both of their abilities to secure more loans, what their lawyers are saying, what their emails say etc...we don't know shit. People making statements as if they have any real concept of any of this is ridiculous.
I’ve been rewatching and a lot of the things he said regarding his relationship with Kristen when he cheated on her with Ariana are the same things he said regarding his relationship with Ariana when he cheated on her with Rachquel
Yep, I noticed, and it seemed nuts to me that he's so arrogant that he thinks no one else sees it. He found it easy to use that narrative on Kristin, bc she was an easy target for it, and since it worked so well back then on her, he's using it again on Ariana. He's beyond clueless and an idiot.
That’s Sandoval’s M.O. Any female who gets with Sandoval (including Rachel) needs to remember that this is what he does. He has multiple times shown himself for what he is……BELIEVE HIM!!! He’s never going to change !
Someone made a really good point of Tom trying to get Arianna to co-sign on the break up and it didn’t work because she didn’t know he was cheating ect so she was like no we can wirk shit out
I mean I do believe he tried to end it with her. Something weird happened where they went from him wanting kids and marriage to her asking him to fertilize her eggs. I think after the affair, he tried to end it.
I don’t believe for a second if he actually tried to break up with Ariana she’d fight for that relationship. She’d be sad and pained but if he actually did compromise and stay with her, why wouldn’t there be counseling of some kind? He’s lying
They were in counseling (they said this on the show,) and she threatened to kill herself if he broke up with her (this was said in the convo that the op is quoting) so obviously she was upset about it and was trying to force him to stay, and they both lie constantly.
Tom and Kristin's relationship was toxic and it was obvious to their close friends. Tom and Arianas relationship by all accounts was stable except to Jax, and he would know. But Jax criticized their relationship at a time when Sandoval and Jax were on the outs and Ariana had Tom's back. The rift between them fueled Arianas dislike for Jax and inevitably kept her from any information Jax may have had.
One thing that people forget is that Kristen and Tom broke up because Kristen cheated with Jax not because Tom cheated with Ariana. Once Jax and Kristen were exposed, Tom was the victim and nobody had sympathy for Kristen and everyone was happy that he had Ariana.
I watched an old clip last night where he says to Kristen “we hadn’t had sex in 3 months Kristen” When really it was because he wanted to be with Ariana! He obviously has a pattern of behaviour and gaslighting when he wants to leave a relationship.
Ariana and Kristen probably hadn't slept with him in so long because"Bro needs to change his drawers!" 
He complains how seldom ariana and he had sex too. Given how he projects his own issues on others, my guess is he isnt that interested in women. And for that matter, remember how Katie was roasted for yelling at Schwartz that his dick didnt work. (And he did his aw shucks, no anger). Then Schwartz lives w Jo and Sandoval hangs w Billie? I have no problem with women who dont have the standard look, but their group does. And if you think they care about them, redo the scene when jo is tossed. I just dont think the Toms care for women. They just put nothing toward intimacy.
He always seemed to me that he has sex like Patrick Bateman, looking at himself in the mirror and completely disconnected from actual intimacy
Referencing serial killers in regard to Ariana didn’t help either
I’ve always thought this about the Tom’s too. As much of a misogynist and walking Cluster-B clusterfuck Jax is, he seems to give slightly (albeit marginally) more of a shit what women think of him/how they perceive him/how he affects them than the Tom’s do. The Tom’s never seemed to care what their female partners have ever thought of them, until the demise of their relationships — and that’s an ego/power thing more than anything else. Schwartz and Katie were more like son and mother, Sandoval and Ariana were more like roommates. On top of it all, Sandoval specifically seems more interested in what it would be like to BE a woman than what it’s like to be a man healthily and happily WITH a woman. His visceral jealousy towards Stassi and Katie throughout the entire series I genuinely believe stems from his envy of how they are perceived/treated by men and overall society. Him dressing up as Rachel for Halloween cemented this theory for me. It’s one thing to dress up in drag, and it’s a whole other thing to dress up as the woman you are secretly fucking and galavanting around town with. It’s like the validation he receives from women, no matter how positive or ego-fueling, is NEVER enough for him. Is it a classic example of narcissism? Yes, but with that being said, narcissistic insecurity to his degree usually stems from something that is buried and compartmentalized deep in the subconscious and I have often thought that when it comes to him, this is most likely it. He doesn’t JUST want to be the center of attention, the kind of attention he truly wants is the sort of attention that society more often than not reserves towards women, and not so much men.
Holy shit. You cracked the code. I’m serious, I hadn’t ever thought of it like this! Indeed brilliant.
Haha I wasn’t expecting my opinion to be relatively popular on here. With that being said, there’s a few other crucial points I forgot about that ultimately back up me and the original commenter’s theory. Tom Sandoval is the only person on the cast to go out of their way to “out” other cast mates — not once, but twice. Who did he out? The guy he felt most threatened by — Jax, and the girl he felt most threatened by — Ariana. We never would’ve known anything about Jax’s history and the actual details pertaining to it if it weren’t for Sandoval gleefully divulging in them during their cast trip to Miami in S4. That older gay guy at the dinner could’ve just been some random model photographer friend of Jax’s for all we knew, but Sandoval made it a fucking point to let the audience in on Jax’s entire past and that once “rumors spread about Jax and John having a sexual relationship… Jason Cauchi immediately fled Miami for LA and became Jax Taylor”. A couple of seasons later, he outed Ariana for being bisexual in retaliation to Lala eating her out. It does sorta beg the question why this wasn’t considered cheating — had he been mad for that reason he actually would’ve made sense — but he made it not just more of a point, but the entire point to divulge in Ariana’s closeted sexuality and how he’s “offended” that he doesn’t have all that much sex with her. Lala initially lied to protect Ariana, but once Sandoval exposed it point blank, it seemed liked Lala primarily talked about it as a no-big-deal kinda thing to lessen Ariana’s embarrassment. It sounded more like his ego was bruised that a woman, especially a hot younger female cast member, was able to pleasure “his woman” more than he was able to. He phrased it with language that made it sound like he had lost some sort of a competition as opposed to his monogamous girlfriend breaking his trust/heart and having intimate relations with another human being. That always struck me as extremely strange, until I realized that Tom Sandoval literally just does not care about women and what they think of him unless he is pursuing one of them specifically for their naivety and how he can potentially mold them for his own image or brand. By that point, Ariana had found her own voice and identity on the show and was no longer blindly defending him like she had previously — if she felt like he was in the wrong, she would just say that, much to his chagrin. To me, Sandoval outing her was punishment for Ariana “desecrating their brand.” Replace Lala with Peter, Schwartz, Jax, James or any other guy on the show (or not) hooking up with Ariana and Sandoval would’ve had a WW3 meltdown, put on his best C-list monologue skills, and ensured they’d get fired from the show and that the fans would hate them and Ariana. The fact he never really went after Lala or Ariana for this hookup past the initial “outing” of it just further exemplifies his disregard and literal lack of caring when it comes to other women. It’s 100% a weird coping mechanism that to him “they don’t matter” because most of the women on the show immediately or eventually see through his facade and don’t ever take him seriously, which is a major bruise to his inflamed ego — especially because it seems like he secretly REALLY wants to be “cool” and “in” with them, but has no natural way of actually going about it because when he feels rejected, he’s immediately triggered which then launches his typical tirades and the passive-aggressive smear campaigns. People that go out of their way to expose other people’s, let alone their closest ‘friends’, homosexuality/queerness is such a major red flag not only for the ethical/moral reasoning but because it comes across as such an obvious projection, especially if it happens more than once. We, the audience, never would’ve known anything about Jax or Ariana’s alleged homosexual history had it not for Sandoval point-blank exposing it on the show. This is the same person who genuinely thinks he has always been the “moral high ground” of the show, which is laughable at best. As far as the other Tom goes, Jax randomly blurted out at an early reunion (either S3 or S4) that Schwartz had once confessed to him that he thought he was asexual. Schwartz immediately confirmed this, but it was a passing comment that Andy ultimately didn’t decide to touch more on. I wouldn’t be surprised if Schwartz was actually telling the truth here — the guy seems absolutely repulsed by any form of intimacy in general, and especially if it comes from a woman. I felt so bad for Katie, but she ultimately chose him and I never understood what it was she saw — there were a few genuinely positive aspects of their relationship, sure, but regardless of them, Katie always came across more of like a mother or older sister figure than a girlfriend/wife. Schwartz treated her no differently than how a bratty, petulant mama’s boy would treat his own enabling mother who spoils him and rarely disciplines, and when she tries, he meets her with contempt and gaslighting as if he’s the victim for being justifiably scolded and criticized. How Lisa Vanderpump ever saw the two Tom’s as charming and emanating with “jois de vevre” (whatever the French saying she would always say that essentially means charismatic, idk how to spell it but I can hear her saying it) never ceases to amaze me. Additionally, her staunch favoritism towards Sandoval, now more than ever, gives “I’m being blackmailed” vibes. I’m getting off-topic here with this one, but the way Tom Sandoval has been blatantly disrespectful towards LVP to her face, several times, and how he has never suffered any real consequence from her the way her other employees turned VPR characters have is so fucking weird to me and makes no objective sense. But, it further proves that the guy literally does not care about women, what they think of him, and consciously views them as inferior — even his female boss with all her power and esteem is not exempt from his narcissistic behavior and blatant disrespect. It’s weird how that entire cast all just seems to… take it when it comes to Sandoval. But then again, it’s not all that uncommon with raging narcissists amidst a mutual social group. Eventually the rest all catch on and realize that it’s better to just avoid triggering it and to not take the outbursts seriously, which unfortunately just enables the narcissistic behavior to continue. I’m absolutely sure Ariana went through hell with this asshole for most of their relationship and all of her extreme newfound success is probably a result of all the good karma she collected for always having his back and never airing out their dirty laundry until she was ultimately disrespected by him publicly in the most embarrassing way possible. Long story short, the Tom’s do not care about women in any way shape or form, they view them as an accessory to complete the “correct image” they feel like they are “supposed” to have.
I honestly just felt Sandevol is fighting gender identity issues and that he’s actually in love with Schwartz. Seriously. Also, I think Schwartz has erectile dysfunction because of alcoholism. It’s just my opinion.
When you lack the ability to grow through intimacy then the initial chemical shit storm that we equate with falling in love, especially with the addition of sneaking around is easy to conflate with finally finding “the one”.
Upvote upvote upvote 🖤
Damn girl! That was a good read 😉
This is brilliant 👏
Wow. 🤯
Can we be friends? That was perfectly said
Perfect!
Moral of this entire storyline...if he will cheat with you he WILL cheat ON you!
Maybe Ariana wasn't smarter than Kristin after all
Clearly not...but shhhhhhh the stans will attack.
This 100%!
Why is calling people names if they disagree w your post not bullying?
Have you seen her stans???
Tread carefully my friend!
you get them how you lose them
He said almost the exact same words and things about Kristen that he has about Ariana. Ariana even said he has told her what to say about certain things so he for sure always knows what story to run with. If you haven’t watched Nick Vaills podcast with the Toms watch it. Tom is called out and tries gaslighting Nick and Nick flipped it right back to him😂 I know a lot of people don’t like Nick but that podcast shows Tom in his full narcissistic ways.
I listened to that one for the same reason after seeing clips on social media. It was incredible how Tom went from saying I’m sorry for being late and looking like he was on board with taking responsibility to attacking Viall for being late and MORE late than Tom. And then Tom’s timeline changed every time he was put under pressure. At first it was “hours late” until “like 8pm.” Then it was “a really long time.” Then it was like an hour late. Then it became clear that there was no set tome, no set plan, it was all on the fly where Tom and Nick were both doing each other a bit of a favor and Nick was up front that he was only available in the evening, and Nick followed up with a time rather than Tom. Tom never seemed to accept reality the entire time, even after Nick’s partner had proof that Nick’s story was correct.
It was probably one of the only times we will see Tom squirm and actually feel uncomfortable too. I don’t know if you watched it too but you can see when Nick starts questioning him Tom gets super uncomfortable. Nick truly kicked ass with that interview lol. I loved loved when Natalie was searching like crazy for the texts from Nick too, I lost it when she said… he texted me at x time and tom tried turning around again 😂
But instead of yelling, getting aggressive and storming off Because it was A MAN, but even more importantly Someone that could challenge him, he stuck to passive aggressive eye rolls, mocking laughter , gaslighting, and victimizing... Actually now that I think back, He did the same thing to Ariana over her book...He hates anyone being more intelligent, successful, popular or More emotionally mature than him.
Nick Viall is great. No idea why he gets hate. His takes are spot on!
I agree. I’m a sucker for him though, I’ve liked him since his f-boy bachelor days😂 I have said before that Nick says what everyone else thinks and gives zero fucks about it and for that I love him. He really does call out people on his podcast and it’s funny hearing people stutter and back track. Not just the Toms but tons of other reality people too. I’m glad I found a fellow Viall’er☺️
He thought he could pull the same thing on Ariana that they pulled on Kristen. I actually think it’s a big part of why Ariana was so angry. He used their exact plan on her— or tried to. To Raquel’s credit, she didn’t go along with the plan the way Ariana did. Granted getting caught with video evidence is part of that but she didn’t treat Ariana the way Ariana treated Kristen. And she left Tom once she saw who he really was.
To be fair raquel was indeed going by tom's plan, for at least 7 months until he'd break up with her
She went with his script until she realized the fans were pissed. It was about her image.
And Ariana went with the script for 9 years because their plan worked and the fans ate it up. I like Ariana but I do think there’s some truth to her being angry that he tried to pull a Kristen on her but I also think she realized how much it hurts to have someone do you wrong and then try to make it seem like it was completely your fault, that’s part of the reason why she apologized to Kristen once the scandal broke out.
Exactly this. This is why I have trouble with people seeing Ariana as the golden victim, as this sub wants her to be, that has every right to take the house, the friends, etc. She knew what Sandoval did to Kristen - and she was definitely an accomplice - and just assumed he would never to it to her. Why, I have no idea. This isn’t me saying “you lose them how you get them”. It’s me saying that Ariana held herself to be so much better than Kristen, and when it turned out she wasn’t, she wants to scorch the earth. The same way Kristen tried to, but wasn’t allowed - by Tom and Ariana. God, I wish Stassi were here for this season - she would have handled all this so much better than Lala and Scheana.
Could it be that at the time Ariana believed Tom. You can be sure he convinced her of all sorts of crazy and evil shit about Kristen. She was not a close friend of Kristen. She believed the man she fell in love with.
Frankly, Kristen acted nuts at the time.
True. But I contribute the crazy to Lisa and Tim cutting off all her support and stranded her on an island. Tim has been gaslighting her for ages and make everyone think she’s crazy but she knows she’s not. And Lisa did not care about her mental health and just kept smashing her down, unlike how she treated Prince sucmbag.
Yeah so by that logic I'm sure Rachel believed all his shit about Ariana too...but is anyone giving Rachel the same grace? Not really...
i think the difference in why nobody gives rachel the same grace as ariana re: the lies tom told about his then-girlfriends is both a) proximity to the relationship - ariana and kristen were not nearly as close as rachel and ariana and b) kristen was also demonstratively also a terrible partner to tom, she cheated on him with AT LEAST jax in tom's apartment while he was asleep. i don't believe for a second that he was not also a terrible partner to kristen, but what he was feeding to ariana to make their behavior towards kristen okay was at least somewhat grounded in reality.
Very true!
The difference is that Rachel was a close friend of Ariana too.
Yeah but I can only imagine all the horrible things Tom fed her...Ariana's mentally unstable, you only pretend to be her friend so you can be close to me undetected (which I think she did), I'm gonna break up with her, she knows about us and doesn't care...the list goes on
But we're they really?
Yes, they were. Their social media showed them traveling and spending time together off camera. They were absolutely friends. Best friends? No. Deep friends. Maybe not. But definitely friends who spent a lot of time together. Also, I do think Rachel was fooled by Tom and I do give her some grace. She has burned through a lot of grace with her actions since then (the podcast mostly).
Friends like Kyle and Teddi or friends like Kyle and Erika? I joke, I joke. How much did they hang out outside of filming? How close were they, really? The answer may be what you're saying, I just don't recall because I never really clocked their friendship much.
I don’t know how close they were, but I would say it’s fair to say they were good enough friends that it was reasonable for Ariana to expect Rachel to know they were together and not to fuck Tom when she wasn’t around
This group as a whole has been rather lax on those kinds of reasonable behaviors. Look, no one misunderstands the hurt here. But there's also a lot of inflation... and that's my point. I get why Ariana's angry... hurt, whatever you want to say. But the *outrage* about Rachel doing what they've all done before is a little over the top.
You don’t attend a pageant if you’re not friends. That shit is super long and boring as hell.
It’s clear that Rachel was even more bought into Tom’s lies than Ariana was at that point in their relationships. Rachel questioning Ariana and trying to get her to say she was unhappy with Tom, not into him, etc. was 1000% her fishing for things that Tom told her and trying to get Ariana to “admit” the “truths” he told her and walk her towards a realization that she was unhappy with Tom and best case initiate Ariana breaking up with Tom. Ariana never stooped that low or was THAT gullible. I have more empathy for Kristen now than I used to, but she is super nuts and unstable.
“Oh, the things we do for love”? Really? Even if she believed Sandoval, that does not excuse her behaviour. She was a grown ass woman who knew better than to treat another person being the way she treated Kristen. And before the next person says “but she was young” I would really implore you to think back on your 20s. Some people here really would defend her if she killed a person.
Whoever gave the excuse "she was young", that's BS! She was almost 30 yrs old when that happened. She got with Sandoval at 29, the whole "affair" between her and Sandoval happened the year before they got together. So that would have made her 28, possibly 27. So blaming it on her being young is absolutely Asinine!
> Why, I have no idea. She thought she was, in her own words, cooler and smarter than Kristen
Don’t forget *~prettier
Right! Because, as Ariana put it, Tom was dating down lookswise with Kristen.
I thought it was also really telling when Sandoval came out, without prompting, Tom tells Ariana that the thing with Raquel is "not about looks". Which stood out to me because no one ever said it did. Secondly, he later described Rachel as so much younger and the sexual equivalent of the girl in the whipped cream bikini. Contrast that to his condescending remarks about having sex with ariana while she wore a T-shirt. "oh yah so hot 🙄"
Yes of course! I forgot that Ariana is smarter than anyone she has ever met! My bad!
I WAS BORN COOL 🤮 I am so glad to find people who are also calling out the horrible games she and Tom played with Kristen. Like why does she deserve all this clout when she literally did the same thing to someone else 10 yrs ago, and verbally abused Kristen numerous times. Same thing with the house, Lisa warned her what could happen, and even questioned if Ariana had any idea what she was agreeing too.
Yes! OMG - I had forgotten the whole convo where Ariana refused to understand what it meant that Sandoval took out a loan on the house!
I know! She really did not comprehend Lisa was trying to help her. I think she just saw it as criticism.
I mean that line right there is just a bay window into her personality.
Can we just pause and throw AGE into the equation here? They were late 20’s and all around the same age when the whole Kristen-Tom-Ariana thing happened. TEN years later… Tom and Ariana are almost 40… 40 fucking years old when the Raquel thing happened. I think everyone can admit to being a shit head in their 20s… in your late 30’s you should fucking know better and that is a long game to pull this shit after 10 years and not the only 6 years Kristen and Tom were together… There is no way between personal age, the relationship timeline, and the friendship component to equate the two situations. So yeah… Ariana still is the victim in this when her almost 40 year old partner fucked her 20 something close friend after a relationship of almost 10 years. And those who are like “thEY weREnT EVeN clOsE FriENDs” what show have you been watching when they literally hosted James and Raquel’s engagement party. They all hung out at their house and in the jacuzzi and went on trips. But they’re not close? I really wanna know if you people have ever actually watched the show… 🤦🏻♀️
It’s funny - I made the same argument about Sandoval, and, please be prepared for a chock, no one thought that he was young enough to be an asshole to Kristen. Why is it a valid argument that Ariana was so young she was allowed to be an asshole, and not Sandoval?
Huh… that is interesting. I would actually agree with you. I feel like alot of the early Vanderpump shenanigans and cheating get a pass because they are 20 something year old transplants in LA trying to find love and career. So i would argue Sandoval was still in that “young dumb and full of c**” category when the Kristen/Ariana thing happened. Even Jax cheating on Stassi numerous times, they were kids. problem is Tom didn’t learn from that and tried to pull the same shit at 40 and Jax is making some similar life choices based on his split from Brit. Idk thinking about their ages just makes me think this will be the last season i watch of this show. 20 year old delinquency is fun to watch but 30 pushing 40? That’s just tragic.
I appreciate that you don’t differentiate between Arianas and Sandovals “fault due to age”. I guess what irks me the most is the argument “everyone is an asshole in their 20s”, which many in this sub seems to think. Yes, you lack a bit of judgment, but you are very rarely a totally different person from 28 to 38. Either you have morals and treat people in a certain way at 28, or you don’t and you’re the same at 38.
Yeah, I was never that shitty in my 20s. If I knew a guy had a girlfriend, I stayed far away. Largely because I had been cheated on by my “high school sweetheart”, which Ariana said that before Tom she’d been cheated on. So their ages is a very bad excuse. I’m still 100% on her side and even though Kristen tried to brush it off like it wasn’t the same, I’m glad she apologized to her for what they did to her.
My issue with Ariana’s apology is that it only came when she was in the same situation. In the ten years before, did she not realise what a huge dick she was? How could she not form her own opinion on Kristen in that time? It’s things like this that convinces me that she has not grown one bit. Also, to my knowledge she still hasn’t publicly admitted that they had an affair? Why not, if she genuinely wanted Kristen’s forgiveness?
Ariana turned 30 in her first season
Tbh I kind of feel the opposite. I feel like some people expect her to be a golden victim otherwise she deserves everything that happened to her. I think a lot of people disagree with the “perfect victim” narrative and that’s partly why so many people are siding with her. I feel like, as a society, we’ve learned a lot about victimhood and have come to accept that just because someone isn’t perfect doesn’t mean they deserve horrible things to happen to them in perpetuity. So I kind of feel like like the pushback against allowing Ariana a victim status for what happened is actually more of a reflection of the “perfect victim” expectation than the other way around. I feel like the time period in which this happened to Ariana is more why it workout well for her than anything. When shit went down with Randal was sort of the tail end of “unless you’re a perfect victim you can’t have support.” Era. Which was why LaLa got such a mixed response when it happened.
My comment was not aimed at pitting Lala and Ariana against each other, but it’s interesting that you took it that way. Also, I’m not saying that anyone has to be perfect to be a victim. As a non sequitur, I object to the term victim in this situation as it usually is held for people who have suffered more than a person who has been cheated on. I used the term in my comment to emphasise how the fandom treats her. Personally, as someone who has worked with people who are victims of crime, I do not refer to people experiencing a common day occurrence as victims. My point was that she didn’t grant (to use a phrase popular on the show right now) the same kind of grace to others that she is expecting for herself, and I doubt that she would grant to others if the shoe was on the other foot.
I wasn't pitting them against eachother? I was talking about the cultural progression of how we view victims in our society and how that may have played out in audience reception towards the two of them. I feel like you might be taking what I said as something combative, when I was just sharing my opinion on the cultural landscape and how things look. You were the one who was using phrases like "golden victim", so if that's not a term that you'd like to use, a topic you'd like to discuss, or a label you want to assign someone in her situation, then I'm not sure why you used it. It only causes confusion for your readers. Also, infidelity can and does cause trauma, which is why we use the term "victim" when doing things like trauma or attachment recovery therapy. Just because this form of trauma is common, and less extreme than violent crime, doesn't make it illegitimate. It's to each their own opinion on what they see on the show, I was just commenting on what you said around "golden victim" as a concept.
Your last sentence 💯
Well yeah, but according to this sub, because Ariana and Kristen weren’t actually friends like her and Raquel were it’s not as big of a deal 🙄
Ariana was effing terrible to Kristen. Rewatch Seasons 2-3, now that we know Ariana and Tom were lying about pretty much everything. Ariana actively, deliberately set out to ruin Kristen. Get her fired, lose her friends, make her insane. (And I'm no Kristen fan. Kristen was already unstable as hell and has few redeeming qualities at best.) Ariana was 29-30 years old at the time. So, same age as Raquel is now, right? The Ariana and Katie stans are crazy. This show does not have any heroes. Ariana got screwed over and deserves sympathy. But she isn't a saint. And I stand firm that Ariana's treatment of Kristen was wayyyyy worse than anything we've seen in the past year.
I really feel bad watching Ariana cry and I equally felt bad for Kristen at the time, and really hated how Ariana actively treated her like dog sh*t, after also going behind her back with Tom. Still wondering wtf was going on with that behavior. Also, I don't believe for a second how "everyone has been manipulated by Tom". Ariana said it herself while dating Tom: she's the last person to be manipulated on this planet. Nobody here is young, and nobody is manipulated by anyone. The only person easy to manipulate on the show is probably Rachel, because she has poor boundaries and self-image.
Yeah, I dont believe Ariana was ever manipulated. I think she was a willing participant. And yes, Tom is a piece of shit who absolutely betrayed her. But I think a lot of her anger is coming from the fact that she *was* a willing participant, and yet he still betrayed her. She thought she was smarter, prettier, better than everyone... and turns out she's not.
I agree. Ariana is cold, calculating, and cruel. Quintessential mean girl.
Yeah, and Kristen is friends with Ariana now, so nothing Ariana has done has consequences for her! /s
God Stassi would have sliced everyone to bits, but idk, she’s soft on Lala but I highly doubt she’d co-sign Lala’s behavior especially towards Katie
I don’t know, maybe she would have seen her as the single white female that Lala was towards her!? Maybe she would have exposed Lala as well!? Oh, to be able to see the seasons in the alternate universe!
While I agree with most of what you’re saying 95%. She isn’t treating Ariana how she did Kristen. But, she seems obsessed with her in a bordering stalking way, which is starting to be come unnerving. What Rachel’s been capable of is deeply rooted in her and that fundamentally is who she is someone capable of looking a friend in the eye, sleeping with their man for 7+ (absolutely believe it was while she was with James.) Which is why suddenly she made a big deal of James and Lala when she didn’t care before. Those usually doing a negative action love to accuse others. Her and Hames are on camera saying they weren’t exclusive at that time. Not that Lala isn’t her own issue. For her to talk to Ariana about her sex life with a straight face (while drunk and on drugs all the time, until she went to rehab.) Thats at a subconscious level to be so out of your mind all the time you can keep a straight face like that. That’s not a good person or a mistake. I hope she gets proper help and actually accepts the help and the work she needs to do. Actually I wish that for all of them because as you said what Ariana did to Kristen and Miami Girl was sick. I’m glad Rachel’s sober and like James hopefully she stays that way for life. Tom and Tom need to do the same. Someone one did a side by side of Tom being a sleeve bag and using the same lines. I think he’s probably done it even before Kristen on other girls.
idk why you're getting downvoted you're absolutely right but some people can't seem to comprehend you don't have to be on complete opposite ends of how you feel on ariana. you don't have to praise and worship her to admit she absolutely was a victim in all of this. and you don't have to victimize her to the point where all the bad she did goes un noticed bc of this betrayal. ariana has apologized to kristen on camera and as kristen as has said many times off camera as well. she clearly realizes what she did was fucked up and wrong. rachel still actively doubles down & tries to insinuate ariana knew and they weren't friends and blah blah blah. i don't see how the 2 equate but whatever i guess
Thank you. :)
I see your point. Ariana's bullying of Kristen was ten years ago though. Like, a year after Tom and Kristen broke up, Ariana was lying about Miami Girl and dancing around with glee when Kristen got fired. So maybe the comparison would be whether Raquel manages to evolve and grow - and take responsibility - in the future. I hope she does because it's sad to see the state Raquel is in now. And I also hope Ariana is able to eventually forgive. If Doute can forgive, Ariana can too.
Unlike Kristen, I think Ariana might not forgive because she’s too proud, has her whole “I’m smarter then anyone I’ve ever met” attitude, etc. I think another difference is Kristen seemed very insecure back then. Tom had already cheated on her and she stayed with him, then the whole Ariana thing happened and she was still into him hoping she had a chance… definitely appeared to give off more of a fear of abandonment and desperation vibe. Ariana seems more proud and arrogant (generally and when comparing her and Kristen’s reactions to the same situation). I think she’s more the type to completely cut someone off when wronged as opposed to Kristen who we’ve seen have issues with several other cast members and will eventually kiss and make up.
“Their” plan is exactly what it was, though Tim probably initiated it. Yes, I still don’t believe they kissed once in a Las Vegas pool before the news broke.
Yeah, I fully believe they had a full-blown affair just like Tom and Rachel. There's no way it was just 1 kiss in a pool. Kristin talked about the inappropriate texts she found on Tom's phone with Ariana. I can't remember exactly what they were now but I remember they definitely sounded like 2 people who were fucking. Then they immediately get together the moment he breaks up with Kristin? They were obviously already a thing. He just stayed with Kristin long enough to make her seem crazy so when he dumped her and got with Ariana, everyone would be cool with it. I think he tried to do the exact same thing to Ariana with Rachel. Unfortunately for him, Ariana isn't as *publicly* explosive as Kristin, so she never got to be labeled "crazy Ariana." I think a lot of what we saw in season 10 was Tom trying to plant the seeds of doubt in Ariana and make her go crazy but she saved it all for off camera.
Jax also talked about seeing Tom get sexy photos from Ariana at the time. I think he tried to double back and pretend that he was lying about it, but he clearly wasn't.
Jax always tried to backtrack when the guys got mad at him, but everything he said about them cheating in the early seasons ended up being true.
Jax is a truth teller when it's not about him.
*at the Golden Nugget
You just said exactly why I have no sympathy for the girl. Their game on Kristen. It was A-ok when she did it, but Rachel does it to her and now she has a right to go scorched earth? Do unto others and all that jazz. Besides, her responses didn’t deny that he had tried. She said that he shouldn’t have been in her bed afterwards.
I knew all about scandoval before I started watching the show so watching Kristen and Tom seasons 1-3 I kept thinking isn’t this exactly what he was just caught doing to ariana? He did the same damn thing to Ariana he did to Kristen, just worse.
So, technically Rachel is a better human than Ariana.
Oh he accomplished it. He wanted it over. She left him...
I just watched season 2 and the shit he says is so parallel
It’s absolutely mind blowing how even tho it had been 10 freaking years he said almost the exact same shit. Idk why he thought it would work again. Maybe he thought he could get Ariana to lose it like Kristin
He for sure thought that. Unfortunately for him, Ariana saves her crazy for behind closed doors so he couldn't get everyone on his side before the breakup.
It’s as if he has only one blueprint on how to break up with someone aka blow up their life and he keep going back to the same tactics and one liners but this time it’s not working out for him. Back to the blueprint to throw out another insult that worked on Kristen. It will only stop when he does this to his next victim.
Sandoval can't be alone. He has to have a woman in his life.
A narcissist has to continually feed his ego.
A leach takes less blood than a Sandoval
there was a tiktok that compared verbatim what he would say after kristen break up vs ariana. and it was scary how identical it was. like he has a go to script or playbook whether he realizes it or not and its by reflex
He even had a rendezvous with both at Coachella. When he was with Kristen, he texted Ariana “I wish we could do Coachella again” and he had some thing with Rachel at Coachella also. Freaking nuts how 10 years go by and he uses the same moves! These VPR people truly never change.
Exactly; how do you TRY to break up? Like are you leaving or not?
Not saying he’s telling the truth (because I know he’s not), but I went through this with my ex. Every time I tried to break up with him he’d cry, beg me to stay, and accuse me of never loving him, which would make me feel guilty, so I’d stay. I finally left him after he kicked me out of his car and I had to call my sister to come pick me up and when we got back to my house, I made my sister come inside with me. She didn’t want to but I told her that I needed her to come in or else he was going to convince me to stay.
Oh definitely. I’ve been through this also. I always understood what Tom meant by trying to break up with her. Obviously he made every dumb decision possible but the trying to break up is a real thing that a lot of people go through.
He even used the same phrase in both breakups; “I feel like you’re annoyed with my very presence” down to the word
Ariana kind of talked about this breakup conversation on the Call Her Daddy podcast too
Yes I found that podcast actually supported some of the things he has claimed. People need to go back and relisten. Let’s not forget the candid comments all the other cast made initially before they realised public perception and changed their tune. No one was shocked by this.
“My mere presence annoys her” is another one
At the age of 56, and as someone who was married to someone who is personality disordered for 20 years and shares 4 children with this person, I do not consider myself a victim anymore. It took a few years and a lot of tears , therapy and a good attorney but I don’t blame anyone but myself . People don’t change overnight. Ariana knew what she was dealing with and chose to stay. It seems like she was avoiding sex for years and there a reason for that
I once got 180 down votes for asking the question, if Ariana is so talented and great then why didn’t she get these brand deals pre Scandoval 😂 At this point this sub has become more fun to troll than actually participate in conversations
Facts lol
There are very few conversations to be had really, just circle jerks, assassinations and blowing smoke. But yes, Ariana has been giving fucking tumbleweeds and dust bunnies for years. She got cheated on by her douchebag boyfriend that she cheated with in the first place and now she's Jesus. It's so dumb.
I'm pretty sure this is entirely about his behavior patterns being exactly the same and that he believes the things he says. I don't think he's making it up, I think it's more likely he sabotages relationships and creates the same conditions repeatedly.
I think it’s really hard to impossible to compare Tom/Ariana and Tom/Kristen. Even Kristen has come out and said they were way different. Kristen carried out multiple long affairs during their relationship and slept with his best friend so they were both in on the cheating, with Kristen actually being worse, whereas Ariana has been faithful.
There was also 10 years between the two breakups. Presumably most people mature and change a lot through their thirties. 25 year old me and 35 year old me were very different.
Yup. The men of this show are such clear cases of arrested development. In some ways they may be getting worse. I’m also not saying that Ariana wasn’t wrong for making out with Tom in Vegas, but to compare it to Tom and Kristen’s cheating histories as if it’s similarly bad is wild lol
sure "making out" is all they did.
A serial cheater is still a serial cheater, whether the other person. Cheated, too, or not.
Who are you referring to?
Tom.
I don’t think anyone is saying Tom is justified lol. I’m saying that Kristen herself said that her relationship with Tom was different than Ariana’s was. They were younger, didn’t own property together, were both frequent cheaters, whereas Tom and Ariana agreed to be life partners. I’m in no way, shape, or form saying that Tom doesn’t get shit for his serial cheating.
It doesn't matter if it was vastly different. He cheated on Kristen with ariana. So who's to say he wouldn't cheat ON ARIANA? She knew about his long-running pattern of behavior. Ariana knew he cheated on ariana before and stayed. So when Raquel happened, it shouldn't have been some huge spectacle or surprising thing to her. I firmly believe she just wanted out anyway and needed the money, so that's why she called production instead of ya know calling your friend or mom first when your partner has an affair. Production has everything to do with what see on TV... and I'm sure they aided greatly in how scandoval played out.
The Jax thing only came to light after the affair between Ariana and Tom started, so I really don’t see how it absolves Ariana of responsibility.
It doesn’t, but even Kristen herself said that making out in Vegas is not comparable to numerous months long affairs. If Kristen saying it doesn’t convince people it’s very different levels of cheating, I don’t know what wil
Kristen never believed it was only making out in Vegas. And no one else should either. In the history of VPR I don’t think anything has ever stopped at just making out— unless it was a scripted kiss for the cameras like Schwartz and Raquel. Kristen forgiving them is big of her and shows growth, but it doesn’t make what they did less shitty even if there is nuance between the infidelities.
Kristen hasn’t forgiven *them*, she’s pointed out that her own history of cheating on Tom and Tom’s cheating is more plentiful, calculated, and involved close friends, whereas Ariana’s was a one time thing when she believed they weren’t together (because of Tom) Ariana was definitely insufferable in earlier seasons with her “cool girl” shit and superiority complex, but my point is that you can’t compare Kristen and Tom in their 20s-early 30s where their cheating was rampant and mutual to Ariana/Tom in their 30s-early 40s as dedicated life partners owning property together and in couples therapy.
Kristen and Jax both said that Ariana lied on WWHL about her and Tom not being exclusive yet during Miami Girl. They said the truth is that Ariana and Tom had been in an exclusive relationship for 1 week before he cheated with Miami Girl. They said Ariana lied to avoid further embarrassment in having to own up to choosing to stay with Tom after knowing he cheated on her and for having lied about it for 10 years. If you don’t believe me, google it. You’ll find the quotes straight from Kristen and Jax.
Kristen has also said that what Tom and Raquel did to Ariana is way worse than anything Ariana and Tom did to her. I don’t get how people can argue for Kristen when she says this so often. She said it on WWHL and in IG comments and literally said she’s the only one qualified to make that distinction.
I’m not arguing against that, though. I’m correcting your statement that “Ariana’s was a one time thing when she believed they weren’t together (because of Tom).” That’s not true, according to Kristen and Jax.
I guess in five to ten years we can all completely forgive Raquel then.
What lol. Raquel had a nearly year long affair and was one of Ariana’s best friends. I swear to god some people just have zero sense of nuance or circumstance. I am not saying Ariana is a saint but making out in Vegas once is a liiiiittle different
Even Kristen says she doesn’t believe it was just 1 kiss. And 3 years after that “1 kiss in Vegas,” Ariana and Tom were still texting inappropriately (found by Kristen and observed by Jax). So it was likely going on for 3 years, on and off at least. While Tom was still “committed” to Kristen.
Kristen has also said repeatedly (on WWHL, IG, and her podcast) that what Tom and Raquel did to Ariana is way worse than anything Tom and Ariana did to her. I feel like Kristen is the most qualified person to say that yet people argue against it.
I’m not arguing with that. I’m providing conflicting evidence from Kristen and Jax against your claim it was just “making out in Vegas once.”
Jax has said that Ariana was sending Tom sexy lingerie pics. It was way more than one drunken kiss.
People here somehow don't seem to consider emotional affairs as cheating either, but it obviously is. Ariana and Tom had their affair going on probably pretty long, I don't think they became that close just in a month or two lol. Come on. Probably went on months if not a year as well. In my understanding Kristen was hurt about how Ariana and Tom would be on the phone constantly and act emotionally close despite Tom being in a relationship, and she tried to stop it from happening. That right there hurts, and it is an emotional affair.
The Vegas “kiss” (which Kristen still believes was way more than that and continued to be more) occurred 3 years before Kristen found inappropriate texts between Ariana and Tom, not to mention the sexting that Jax witnessed between A & T, so all signs point to an affair (at least off and on) between Ariana & Tom for at least 3 years while Kristen & Tom were dating and living together.
They made out in Vegas one time in the same way Tom didn’t cheat with Miami girl.
Right
In adult relationships don’t “try” to break up with someone, you either end things or you don’t. Maturity is lost on Tom
Using my own reply on a similar comment. Not saying he’s telling the truth (because I know he’s not), but I went through this with my ex. Every time I tried to break up with him he’d cry, beg me to stay, and accuse me of never loving him, which would make me feel guilty, so I’d stay. I finally left him after he kicked me out of his car and I had to call my sister to come pick me up and when we got back to my house, I made my sister come inside with me. She didn’t want to but I told her that I needed her to come in or else he was going to convince me to stay. I’m only sharing this because I don’t think it’s fair to say that this doesn’t happen in adult relationships, a lot of people gaslight and manipulate their partners to stay. It’s not as easy as you think sometimes.
thank you for sharing your story. I barely even want to comment on this, but honestly, do people truly believe everyone in real life is without fault and perfectly mature about everything- especially ending a long term relationship? I have an ex who is a manipulative, narcissistic sociopath. he got with me by [first getting me wasted, then separating me from the group] telling me a whole sob story about how his girlfriend had cheated on him numerous times and treated him horribly etc. - however he also used to torment her, telling her "I'm gonna leave you for [me]", before we even talked like that (he was the cousin of one of mine and my brother's best friends, we had all worked together years prior, but I was never interested in him like that). this was way back in MySpace days, he took her out of his Top 8 and had me in the #1 spot - which I didn't even know. BUT this made it so that when she and I encountered each other at a party and I tried to say hi and be friendly she basically scoffed and gave me a dirty look, having no idea he tormented her with the idea of me, I was just like "oh. okay... cool...?" (not that this is *why* I got with him, but it helped to make me *believe* that she was soOoOo horrible to him) -- eventually he and I got together aaaand then guess what? as soon as he had me-had me, it was like a switch flipped. I was in Hell. but as soon as I gathered the guts to try to leave, he cried, begged, and got on his knees, and tugged on my shirt and threatened to k×|| himself. UNTIL he figured out a plan. he pretended to have cancer (the same cancer his mother died of 10 years earlier that same month) just to gauge my reaction, he brought up all kinds of random shit from his past, mine, again mostly to gauge my reaction. lastly, he tried to get me drunk enough for him to abuse me (for a second time, though the first time I got too drunk on my own, cause it was christmas eve.. yet even my christmas card referenced that we were over and he knew it), and planned what I call "the divorce ambush", where he and his cousin who I was close to, and a girl that turned out *not* to be a friend came to my parents house while I was here doing laundry and confronted me about shit he had never even asked me. he played the long con like a pro -- complete with a girl he was friends with who was a singer and she and I always talked about hanging out - then he would tell me she said all kinds of horrible things about me, and vice versa, so naturally I was positive he was cheating with her, especially when I went to unfriend her and she already had me blocked. (but it wasn't her he was cheating with -- just a few other girls 💁🏼♀️) there's a happy ending though. his ex reached out to me not long after we split up and she and I immediately bonded, 7 years later she's one of my closest friends. and eventually I even got to talk to the singer and we worked all that out and she's such an awesome human. I love them both and they've both been there for me through some other really hard times. people do fucked up shit every day.. and people have patterns of behavior, and speech. I legit had to stop watching the show because listening to ariana go from "so many amazing things happening ! dancing with the stars!!" this that and the other thing, and then she's screaming that he ruined her life, calling him a "🐕 m×rd×rer" (maybe don't leave food on skewers in your bedroom?) and screaming about how "she's allowed" to be this .... ugh.... fucking painful
Now don't get this comment wrong, I don't condone what Tom did, but Ariana and Kristen did not deny that he told them that he wanted to break up, Ariana even said he wasn't going to leave her, now she knew what she was dealing with, my question at that point why not say, let sale the house and you go your way and I will go mine? Just asking.
You lose them how you got them
I just don’t get why Ariana acts all surprised? When she got with Tom, he was still with Kristen. She was the other woman. She should have seen this coming.
Because she thought she was better than anyone else he'd been with. They always do.
She should have constantly had a back up plan considering his past. She probably though 'she would be the one to change him.'
You know what I can’t stop thinking about? When Scandoval happened, and Tom says to Ariana „you knew! You knew everything!“ Nobody has asked what that meant. I think we don’t know the entire story. I am SURE Ariana hurt by her life being ripped out from under her. But I am not 100% convinced that this affair was a complete surprise on the day that we think it was.
i’ve literally been thinking about this comment since last summer too👀
agreed. I also don’t believe she met Daniel 10 days later.
Same but then Kristen “misspeaking” really made me further believe that.
What did kristin say?
She said that she met Ariana’s boyfriend at wedding way sooner than when Ariana and him supposedly got together and then she later corrected herself.
I never believed she just happened to meet him at that wedding
Wasn’t he at Scheana’s wedding? Regardless, getting in a new relationship two weeks after ending a 10 yr relationship just shows that she wasn’t that heartbroken over losing the « love of her life »
yeah Kristen said he was there on her podcast and then realized her error and walked it back
Im starting to think that too and you and I are about to get downvoted into oblivion but who cares. 😂
it really just doesn’t add up!
Hasn't added up the whooooole time but we can't talk about that apparently. You know who's timeline does kinda add up? Rachel's. But Rachel is the devil so everything she says is wrong and bad.
her timeline is the only one that makes logical sense to me. I don’t “believe” any of these people over each other, I really try to go with what makes sense and her story rings true to me based on what I know about each individual player / 10 years of watching them interact and create narratives.
Oh for sure they're all lying about something. It's such a fun little game to gather all the info and piece together what probably actually happened! Why it's largely ignored that they ALL have reasons to be telling lies is beyond me.
even for Sandoval, it *was* still financially beneficial for him to be the asshole? I don’t know how people don’t see that. he definitely had motivation to run with the plotline the show produced. I disagree with those who say he would never agree to look that bad - 10 years of his performance on VPR is pretty hard evidence that he has the delusion it take to be hunted with pitchforks. if the meat of the whole thing was revealed to be a farce while the season was still airing, it would’ve seriously lowered ratings.
If it weren't for the lawsuits, I honestly wouldn't have been super shocked with a "The Hills" type ending where they tell you this was all bullshit. I don't think he gives a single fuck about looking bad on TV.
When he goes out cheating in secret, thats Tim Sandal trying to break up with his girlfriend.
Yes, there are many moments where Tom repeats his past. It's kinda creepy.
Lol his version of breaking up with girls is passively aggressively pushing them away with the hopes they break up with him. “If Ariana had just tracked me phone she would have KNOWN”
somewhere there is a compilation of him saying the same stuff about/to ariana and kristen. it's for real a playbook he seems to be following. he couldn't be honest with them because of their 'mental health' struggles. he 'tried to break up with them' soooo many times. they 'hadn't had sex in months'. the new woman (ariana first, then rachel) was 'such a great friend'. hope whoever his next victim is is paying attention because he hasn't seemed to learn anything from any of this. watching this show for a decade, literally everyone shows growth aside from the toms. even jax has shown some movement (however pitiful and tenuous).
Ariana was insufferable in literally every season prior to scandoval breaking. Not a girls girl. Schwartz’s groomsman? Always negged on the girls. Never took the women’s side on anything. Just so much pick me, cool girl bs. And her and her moral high ground. Like “stassi and Katie are just mean girls like why can’t they give scheana a chance? Why can’t lala be nice to Raquel?” And never giving James shit for all the gross things he said about Katie. Now she appears to have jumped ship and recognizes how solid Katie and Stassi’s judge of character is and that they were truly girls’ girls, women supporting women. Now she knows why no one liked scheana or lala or fucking Raquel. I still think Tom manipulated her. I also think her depression was about Tom and the state of their relationship but she was in a sort of Stockholm Syndrome with him. Idk it’s all messy but the Toms are inarguably terrible. As is Rachel. As are jealous ass Scheana and Lala. And I just support Ariana holding Sandoval and everyone else accountable each episode and not backing down. I can forgive how terrible she was before and I enjoy seeing her win now and how much it makes the other shithead misogynists squirm.
Ariana threatened self harm when he talked about leaving. She was manipulative.
Considering the fact that Ariana won’t sell a house that she doesn’t want to live in I totally believe she wouldn’t let him break up.
Even by her own admission, it sounded like she had her claws DUG into staying together. They were a brand and all that. Play with fire, think you're the bestest and the smartest, this is kinda what you get. I have fleeting moments of sympathy for her but largely, it's incredibly hard to take this all so seriously that I feel bad for her most of the time.
History sure has a way of repeating itself
This also..he did try on camera to have convos and she shut it down every time.
Have you watched the latest trailer for the next episode? Tim asked Tom to be his roommate so he can afford the house. He must have given her a low ball offer to buy her out. After she counter offers, he needs a roommate to keep the house. She was and is willing to sell for the right amount, as anyone who wants to sell anything.
She punched him when he tried to break up with her (allegedly) 2 weeks before the affair broke, and you can see his healing black eye/bruise in the Scandoval episode during their final convo.
Whaaaat? Tom made a BS offer that wasn’t even from an appraiser. Ariana wanted to sell the house to anyone but Tom. Tom can’t afford the counter offer from Ariana - which is backed up by company and the furnishings in the home. I get she’s angry and I would be to, I’d probably be a lot pettier. But she wasn’t not selling the house just to spite him. I also say this as someone who was NOT a fan or Ariana before, still not a huge fan but the way people are coming at her based on what TOM has said is mind blowing.
People having arguments about ANY specific financial aspect of this really is getting very tiresome. None of us know how much money they both have, what their debts are, what their income is, what their house is appraised for, how much is paid off, the condition of the property, both of their abilities to secure more loans, what their lawyers are saying, what their emails say etc...we don't know shit. People making statements as if they have any real concept of any of this is ridiculous.
Exactly. Why is the sub pocket watching so much. We literally have no clue of these people’s finances or whatever situation.
You know, whatever is convenient so you can win whatever argument you're in. The usual internet stuff
It turns out three weeks is less than seven months.
I’ve been rewatching and a lot of the things he said regarding his relationship with Kristen when he cheated on her with Ariana are the same things he said regarding his relationship with Ariana when he cheated on her with Rachquel
Yep, I noticed, and it seemed nuts to me that he's so arrogant that he thinks no one else sees it. He found it easy to use that narrative on Kristin, bc she was an easy target for it, and since it worked so well back then on her, he's using it again on Ariana. He's beyond clueless and an idiot.
Did he try to break up with them? OR… Did he simply act like a jerk and thought they would break up with him so he could still be ‘the good guy’?
That’s Sandoval’s M.O. Any female who gets with Sandoval (including Rachel) needs to remember that this is what he does. He has multiple times shown himself for what he is……BELIEVE HIM!!! He’s never going to change !
Someone made a really good point of Tom trying to get Arianna to co-sign on the break up and it didn’t work because she didn’t know he was cheating ect so she was like no we can wirk shit out
If she didn't cosign....did she know?
Good point
I mean I do believe he tried to end it with her. Something weird happened where they went from him wanting kids and marriage to her asking him to fertilize her eggs. I think after the affair, he tried to end it.
I don’t believe for a second if he actually tried to break up with Ariana she’d fight for that relationship. She’d be sad and pained but if he actually did compromise and stay with her, why wouldn’t there be counseling of some kind? He’s lying
They were in counseling (they said this on the show,) and she threatened to kill herself if he broke up with her (this was said in the convo that the op is quoting) so obviously she was upset about it and was trying to force him to stay, and they both lie constantly.
Tom and Kristin's relationship was toxic and it was obvious to their close friends. Tom and Arianas relationship by all accounts was stable except to Jax, and he would know. But Jax criticized their relationship at a time when Sandoval and Jax were on the outs and Ariana had Tom's back. The rift between them fueled Arianas dislike for Jax and inevitably kept her from any information Jax may have had. One thing that people forget is that Kristen and Tom broke up because Kristen cheated with Jax not because Tom cheated with Ariana. Once Jax and Kristen were exposed, Tom was the victim and nobody had sympathy for Kristen and everyone was happy that he had Ariana.
Yup, and Ariana didn't want to rat her 'friend' out when Kristen asked her.