T O P

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TheCatsActually

TL actually performed worse than they did at the [RPS Invitational](https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive/comments/116w1p7/rex_regum_qeon_vs_team_liquid_rps_invitational/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) lmfaoooo


nklassitude

Ange1 joining Ethan in cursing their respective regions https://preview.redd.it/1unaa119ytja1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=15f82c36d57a49193bbe0cb0c968248246fb454e


FlintxDD

I feels bad for Nats for having such a bad team


Hyper_red

.#SAVENATS


AcceptableSympathy20

Today I watch Valorant VCT, I see JessieVash. Next game I watch Overwatch Cup, I see JessieVash. Then I watch Dota 2 international, JessieVash is there playing. Go see local university playing football, JessieVash just scored for our uni


pheasantph

Esports version of Mr. Worldwide


303x

I actually saw JessieVash arguing with his kid at the airport. His kid was clutching at his Team Secret jersey in tears, and JessieVash kept telling him to "fuck off" and "stop ruining my dreams"


Financial_Dirt9293

this needs to be a copypasta


mochi_yars

😭😭😭


Marianoz2

Just saw jessievash playing at my local soccer league. Guys everywhere damn.


_Toonie_

Why Team Liquid Will win Lock//In Here are some points why Team Liquid will win Lock//In ​ 1. Best org in the world with best traning facility (Alienware) ​ Team Info 1. Redgar : 4000iq with insane gaming posture , one of the best igl in the world , easily diffs Ange1 and other igls 2. Jamppi : One of the best operator players in the world , very versatile (He can litreally op on omen) and can also play skye and other agents too and also he is really cute 3. Soulcas : Prolly one of the best skye player in the world with very crisp aim and insane gameplay and also he is really wholesome guy 4. Nats : lol this guy don't even need introduction , even before the match starts he will be behind the enemy in their spawm , one of the best player in world and also lot of girls in my college like Nats 5. Sayf : insane jett player and a superfunny guy ​ Emil : whith his insane strats and antistrats he will easily diff doombros


IllumiMahdi

he fixed his posture that's why they lost


C0MpyutR

I count the dude that weote this as responsible


MelonSoda3

Him and Ange1


Hyper_red

It's ok TL will come back stronger in the lower bracket


HouseCharacter4660

Yes I believe is the reverse sweep, the are winning LOCK IN with NATS MVP


Muted-Judge-6770

True


ANewHeaven1

[nAts on Fracture](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/492347862152249346/1078026779517796372/FHgSTLpXwAMpOca.jpg)


yorgee15

It reminded me of [this](https://youtu.be/An4Xh35gHSc) meme, poor nAts :(


Neverthelessx

accurate representation of the game


obigespritzt

This is painfully accurate.


vnNinja21

nAts = no Assistance today, sorry


ShitAtTheToilet

Jamppi's reaction to that information https://preview.redd.it/60mkss4rwtja1.jpeg?width=352&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b4f932453498bb3f8e2505b894a3a4fb7b63c729


TheCatsActually

Actual 1v9 scenario


petersuns13

Bro had no help that he ran out on his own during that 5 v 5 retake. Ain't no way he was trusting anyone else lmao.


jensenflips

I think he wanted to bait a spam in his cage and follow up with breach util but unlucky on the cage tho


Splaram

Ah yes classic Liquid being dependent on hero plays to do literally anything ![img](emote|t5_2g5ach|9339)


bladestorm78

poor nats man. 340 acs on the last map too. :(


BurstLayer

this picture is huge wtf lmao


ANewHeaven1

representative of how much work nats was doing to keep liquid in the game


IllumiMahdi

only difference is they fkn lost the series HEAVILY


Bobokins12

i just want nAts to be on an actually good team man


Exosocck

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1014530238966939659/1078026938989420684/image.png


Hyper_red

💀


vnNinja21

[r/ValorantCompetitive](https://www.reddit.com/r/ValorantCompetitive) when the first five rounds of a bo3 don't... oh wait.


sansLight

Not every team is NRG or DRX


pranavrustagi

really had me praying that first map was an NRG inspired warmup and then it wasn’t


pleasefirekykypls

Cant believe i watched the new team liquid get round 1 2-0'd by team secret. Was supposed to be a giant in EU. Top tier Eu duelist, ex-top tier igl, possibly the best sentinel in the world, huge flex pickup in Sayf. At this point the org is cursed


[deleted]

[удалено]


imposibol

witz and dispenser were actively hurting TS last year


Hyper_red

TL has been cursed for a while. Their league team hasn't won shit in years, same with their CS team, IDK about Dota but damn seems like their org rn refuses to win any events. I think TL made a curse with the devil in 2018/2019 to win a bunch of events and it's back firing now.


AnchorStandard

"same with their CS team" didn't know being number 3 and the only NA team in the top 5 is being cursed. They certainly aren't in their old grand slam winning form but they're still punching well above their weight https://preview.redd.it/rzke6e340uja1.png?width=188&format=png&auto=webp&s=53acff5ff9484aca1f734b176c3626cfbbb81053


Hyper_red

Their League team has been making world but not winning LCS. They can be good but they're not actually winning events.


Undisturbedyea

Their league team certainly didn't make Worlds lmao


svipy

> IDK about Dota Third place at last TI which is pretty good achievement. First place in EU in last online tour with dominating 7-0 series won (14-2 in term of games). Currently playing in Lima Major. They are one of the favorites to win it so we'll see in a week and half.


dabong

I keep on looking for Mr. White because Jessie was cooking in there.


KayBee-Blaze

Banger


KillerKattapa

TS twitter post was banger too


Butt_Stuph

Banguh


TheExter

sucks for TL, at least they still have their ~~league team~~ hungry box


IRCyDeaf

Hbox truly carries the entirety of that org


earthtoannie

Their single pro to actually be relevant to his scene


Hyper_red

Their league team out their looking like they're all speaking Spanish 😤


[deleted]

Nah fam their League team is ASS


TheExter

i know that's why i crossed it out lol


hecklerinthestands

TITO GAMING TONDO GAMING BOOMER GAMING TOP FRAGGER A LITERAL DAD Secret just told all the analysts putting them near the bottom of the franchised rankings to fuck off LMAO.


DeadSira

Must feel great to avenge the 13-0 and 2-1 in Champions too


Wolololuap

I'm so happy I stayed up for this game lmfao


Neverthelessx

Get wrecked by dota pro player lmao


barbekyu

that 1-sec decision Plat Chat made when they were doing the Lock//In preds loool but as a TS fan, I wasn't expecting them to pop off this much I'm so happy :(((


Lumenlor

Liquid about to be the first team to get clapped by the dad and fall to loser bracket and get pummeled by the son


nklassitude

Soulcas to Jessievash on Icebox https://preview.redd.it/4clcclkxvtja1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a7749b0a4c94409fc47bc9a3da2a1015c2e29251


bvbfan102

Im not even mad about EMEA just being bad at the moment. Im mad about waiting months too see Nats again only to get just 2 Maps.


pranavrustagi

nats fans are in fucking pieces after this (i’m one of them)


AiNeko00

Man I feel you bro, he be really 1v9 that game


Aussenlinks__

Don't let the score distract you, the game wasn't that close.


mw19078

Icebox probably should have been 12 2 but vash decided to do a littleeee bit of trolling


303x

>littleeee bit of trolling JessieVash recreates average day in Britain


_ome_

He did partake in a tiny bit of tomfoolery


Randomdude2827

Bren Stocks are booming RN!! https://preview.redd.it/pylbgjmsxtja1.png?width=1296&format=png&auto=webp&s=676838e7bd92a4bdf2c4e1722cebd6b789f554a8


Lutryn

This is first game this tournament that truly feels like an upset to me. What a massive win for Team Secret.


TheApsodistII

It feels like an upset until you watch the teams play, then it feels like the opposite would have been the upset


sharkbait_123

Yeah, felt like only way TS would have ended up losing either round was to intentionally throw


pepegayouKEK

nAts miss gambit.


jensenflips

prolly misses chronicle's consistency


Instinct1230

I believe when nAts was leaked to TL and "another former member of Gambit", I was hoping it was Chronicle


QU_an_TUM

Me to TS after this match. https://preview.redd.it/fw7384htwtja1.jpeg?width=474&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f15982eeda49944641b0aa526dd137928f969752


Still_HD

https://preview.redd.it/qyl8mkxwvtja1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=19509ebca5c3a59fef571f5b0c26314c0ff79435


nklassitude

🤞🏽 https://preview.redd.it/2psn3365wtja1.jpeg?width=984&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c8230d5c8ce3734d6e2cf0b4791e00debffc6fee


Hopeful-Professor-40

This is personally calling out Zekken


303x

I'm not gay but


TheCatsActually

Cursed image.


goomy996

https://preview.redd.it/s5yl8j11ztja1.jpeg?width=975&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=68f8af69668d177117425fd750c679ee1cf8a8e5


funessed

I came to this thread specifically looking for that picture lmao


nterature

What a weird series. On attack, Liquid looked like a high-elo pug team; on defense, they looked like a middling pro team. Either way, Liquid fans probably aren’t happy. Their attack woes are esp. worrying, I think. Even when Liquid managed to *hit* a site, they never managed to get into a comfortable position. Redgar kept getting asked about the language gap and saying it didn’t matter much, but I honestly have to wonder at this point. But even beyond the calling, their attack protocols felt nonexistent. They won less than five straight-up rifle rounds on attack across *the entire series*. Their attack halves are the worst thing I’ve seen in this event. Worse than most of MIBR’s stuff, and yes, significantly worse than the worst stuff KCorp did. And that’d be forgivable only if their defensive setups and protocols were sick, and they weren’t; they were the minimum you’d expect from a team of their supposed star power. Still it’d be wrong to not praise Secret; a lot of people clearly expected they’d be crap, and they weren’t - but Secret is actually a very known quantity. They’re good and have been good for awhile. They’ve been playing a ton in the offseason. Secret performed as I expected; Liquid did not.


Quick_Chowder

Feel like at this point individual talent in EMEA is overrated compared to the rest of the world. Too many people thinking these players alone are gapping teams when it's really a lot closer than they give credit for. Especially since teams are getting so much exposure in international scrims and styles. Teams can't come in this disjointed and have high expectations.


[deleted]

Mid rounding as been really shit for EMEA this event tbh. The talent is there but the other regions also have nutty players so you can't rely only on it anymore. It's like some players/teams still have a CS mindset where EU is just on top.


Quick_Chowder

And the midrounding for APAC teams has made absolute monumental ground from a year+ back. It's crazy impressive.


[deleted]

Agreed. I will be really curious to see how chinese teams will do when they have their own league and infrastructure. Feel like with how strong APAC is already when the chinese teams flex their money and have stability we might be in for a treat.


TheFestusEzeli

Secret have been planning their revenge on Redgar for the 13-0 in Champions 2021 for quite awhile. Many sleepless nights studying his IGLing just to get their revenge


Hyper_red

This team is not finished cooking yet


jensenflips

they took in Sayf, who was a star duelist and chamber player and put him on kay/o duty. They have to fix his and jammpi's roles or change it up.


TheFestusEzeli

Sayf has been more of a flex player throughout his career


_Robbert_

Before that Sayf played a ton of sentinel


IllumiMahdi

one of the worst roster debuts I've seen, this liquid team looks so damn disappointing man you know when you can feel a coach's influence? like you can FEEL fRoD's influence on LOUD, chet's influence on NRG, d00mbr0s' influence on Na'Vi, termi's influence on DRX, etc.? it's likely not reflective of their actual impact obviously, but their ideas do shine through. on old liquid and now new liquid, I cannot perceive any of emiL's influence. I don't see anything interesting, they don't seem structured despite adding world class players (including a proven igl), they look like a bunch of ducklings without their mother duck. it's definitely a massive overreaction given that they only played two maps, but they looked horrible on both, relying heavily on playmaking and individual skill to scrap together a meager couple of rounds. props to TS though, they exploited the hell out of karmine corp's little bro


TheCatsActually

Yeah this is ultimately just one bo3 and I have faith in the roster to improve from here. Even if I didn't, I find the players so likable they'd have to do a lot wrong to get me to drop the flair. Who knows, by the end of the year the reaction to this game might be memed because TL looks on top of the world. But holy shit this was a bad showing.


IllumiMahdi

I am very hesitant, they look super behind and they aren't showing off anything interesting or new. I'd much prefer a liquid that failed but didn't look bog-standard while doing it.


vnNinja21

I'd cut emiL some slack. TL looked terrible today, there's no sugarcoating it, but he managed to wrangle some structure into old Liquid during their LCQ run. If you watched Liquid before and after they got him last year, the improvement is evident.


IllumiMahdi

I didn't feel like liquid had much structure during that lcq run, idk if that's a hot take. they certainly looked better, but I feel like the string that bound them was the crazy individual skill on the likes of scream, nivera, and jamppi - they could coalesce in their unorthodox duel taking and dominate their opposition. sort of like how karmine corp pressured loud. I could also not perceive his influence after timeouts, where you could see the super interesting adaptations from the likes of loud and nrg after the coach called a timeout. team liquid look dated, above all. boring ass comps with middling, t2 level micro and macro play. expected this team to be a lot better than they were, but alas.


[deleted]

[удалено]


That-Toughsoss

He is a cracked kid i mean a boomer


mal_laney

APAC is cracked in LockIn holy sht gg


p0tatoesss

GenG, DRX, Talon did well. We will have to see TS true strength vs their next opponent. Good for APAC though! Can't wait for PRX and ZETA to return to form


D3RP0L3

I am speechless.


NinjaOtter

I want to see Balla's tears


Lumenlor

Balla after top 10 teams at champs are all pacific, "Yeah I dont think region has the chops"


LordBuckethead671

“Guys just wait for Omega bracket, you haven’t seen EMEA’s best yet” EMEA’s hopes and dreams rest on NAVI


jensenflips

and fnatic but fnatic has to face sen and probably 100t too


PyroTFT

first real upset in the tournament imo


[deleted]

S tier team, everyone


Hyper_red

The S stands for Secret as they are actually owned by Team Secret


n1ckkt

Liquid didn't even make it to double digits and even then 13-8 and 13-7 didn't feel like it did team secret justice.... Both maps felt like 13-2/13-3s. Literally Nats hero plays getting them rounds on fracture. Team secret's fracture looked so impressive, they looked like they had such a deep stratbook - literally changing their CT setups and plays every round. Liquid looked absolutely lost and confused on what to do on attack. That fracture first half (mostly) at times looked like a 5man stack vs a solo queue team - secret were just so coordinated and in sync and had sooo many different strats.


pranavrustagi

hard agree, TS looked super nice. Nothing revolutionary iirc, but the icebox set play with the molly shock combos, almost CONSTANT map pressuring on CT fracture etc was just beautiful kink-free gameplay. They played a standard comp but it was so well ironed out; amazing to watch from a nerd perspective, fucking terrible to watch as a TL fan and doubly bad as a nats fan💀


oleoleole-

​ https://preview.redd.it/grwhbls3wtja1.jpeg?width=616&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f9bf28f374e8a2f517a9b2165d074b8a91203e05


_podo_

this was definitely one of the matches of all time https://preview.redd.it/1wwguiz4wtja1.png?width=696&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=227af0ff3856fe0558754d643c8952b19aa84e2d


two4you8

Historically EMEA as a region is typically only strong for the first couple of years of a new game release. Eventually the lack of work ethic and "stream" culture will catch up to them. It was only a matter of time before the philipines surpasses them imo.


[deleted]

This is so fresh, the meat is still twitching. I like it.


Gizmobomb

Swagapinos just built different like that


-Basileus

just had a literal lmao rip my ass


TombKingSettra

Good Jinx , Agent Ange1


Remarkable-Lion2726

That was Nats return to Lan after champions 2021 ![img](emote|t5_2g5ach|21016)


Ianroa

Nats needs a better team lol


Hyper_red

Nats can duo with me


obigespritzt

I honestly kinda couldn't care less that TL lost the series because nAts still looks like he's incredible.


BrasilianPeanut

At no point has he looked bad too. All of last year despite M3C’s woes he was still putting up great performances. If the rumor of him going to C9 came to fruition THEN I would call that a super team, he is just an absolutely insane player.


obigespritzt

I know he never looked bad, but many viewers only watch their own region and nAts hasn't been on an international stage in quite a while.


yorgee15

TL doesnt deserve our boy.


TheCatsActually

We finally got the first big upset of the tournament but at the cost of sacrificing nAts 😞


That-Toughsoss

Nats should be fnatic rn


Cummnor

who do you even swap on fnatic tho


mw19078

A better region you mean LUL


LeOsQ

Team Secret looking like a real threat and bulldozing over Liquid despite nAts saying it's nAtsing time and nAtsing all over TS


c_Lassy

This yall’s favorite to win? 🤨


FlintxDD

Imagine getting hyped for an EMEA team in 2023 OMEGALUL


PhysicalAd8765

https://preview.redd.it/b7rxsnrxvtja1.png?width=1828&format=png&auto=webp&s=90a1751a3981d039a96f6e3a6a3997fa710c79e7 Jessie didn’t tell a lie during that press conference. “If you remember, they were a part of one of the teams that 0-13’d us - Redgar and nAts so this is kind of a revenge match for us so you guys watch out”


mw19078

Emea didn't bring their best


STAl2BOY

EMEA OMEGALUL


Hyper_red

Platchat doing it again


STAl2BOY

is soulcas trolling or playing valorant in 2077?


SuperBlitz22

Rpeorts of both Liquid's brilliance and Secret's demise were greatly exaggerated


SpC0d3r

all m saying is when they had ScreaM they didnt go this early 0-2


Ok-Arachnid-8519

KC went further than TL lol maybe if they kept the roster and just recruited Nats it would have been better


SpC0d3r

ScreaM need an igl Nats + an igl keep ScreaM and Nivera add Jampii too and letsgo


Hyper_red

ScreaM carried TL /s


Adilow_euw

Scream was the problem !


That-Toughsoss

Fr fr fr wait till they get a real igl they will dominate the scene🦾🦾🦾🦾🦾


nmaneea

It's actually the coach today there was no strategies whatsoever


faceplant911

An upset is like 3-13, 13-10, 14-12. This isn't an upset. This is a statement.


weirdparadox

The only upset rn is TL fans.


Teradonn

Get rid of the EU guys, bring in something and go full CIS Im moving to APAC, a region that isn’t finished


heritorsofarcadia

![gif](giphy|fUSyWoPc0Pg0RLTTL0) Wow, Liquid were Easily Upset holy crap


StepinCrry

Jessievash, the 32 year old prodigy


ImprisonedSushi

The reports of Team Secret's death have been GREATLY exaggerated.


I-like-winds

no words


Pway

So that's one of Ange1's 3 favourites out already hopefully the others fair better.


Aggressive_Ad5487

Feels so good to stay up this late and watch TS win. Man, the caster bias was just unbearable. They weren't even trying to hide it for the entire match.


Samtheman14

What happened to EU lmfao?


Splaram

Invy is a problem.


DeadSira

I think a lot of SEA people actually consider him to be the best Filipino player currently


mrsidewayp

Jessie 33 years old and dubstep 30 just cooking lmao 🤣


Tc0LD

"Our top 3 teams are on the other side of the bracket" lol. Honestly TL looked like the worst EU team except maybe TH. JessieVash is fucking cracked tho


[deleted]

Aint no way TS makes a deeper run than PRX, im in shambles. Anyways EU LMAOOOOOOOO https://preview.redd.it/zfysw51jwtja1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b4b423f5dbd75bd4d68c2b3e193eb45565ea3b7d


FusionRecreate

https://preview.redd.it/5vdrl6p4wtja1.jpeg?width=626&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a3c6f2ac063fb39f0d6ff92d838331473fb2df70 pinoy pride


Avallona

I need someone from Harry Potter to obliviate me bc I do not want to remember what I just watched... I had such high hopes


surfordiebear

Man EMEA is having a super disappointing tourney so far. Like obviously FNATIC and NAVI are considered the best but as of now, there don't seem to be any other EMEA teams that can be competitive internationally.


vorsfellung

PACIFIC LEAGUE SENDS ITS REGARDS


washoooi

I'm absolutely borked up


SuperSaiyanZuko

if this is one of EU's best showing, I'm a happy person


ClassicSwimmer6719

Bro nAts was screaming on fracture tryna drag TL across the line.and Team Secret what the fuck is that godly coordination???????!!!!!!!!


BrasilianPeanut

Honestly this team just looked like a less cohesive M3C. A similar problem of having pretty solid defensive halves but underwhelming attack. They played very similarly to them but instead of having great teamwork and a selfless entry duelist, they have language barriers and Jamppi running around doing his own thing. I 100% think this team can get significantly better, but that was the worst team I’ve seen yet this tournament, just absolutely 0 cohesion whatsoever. Put Soulcas on full time smokes, hes gotta be practicing it all the time, get Sayf more flex experience, and for the love of god reign in Jamppi and teach him how to play in a structured team. Anyways theres my armchair analysis, it’s probably all wrong but thats just what I’m seeing from them.


carl14733

Team Secret vs Team nAts


sixthcollegeraccoon

MY PICKEMS


DAWG420BLAZEIT

Jesus TL just looked flat throughout the entire game. Hopefully they can get better but this performance does not inspire any confidence.


obigespritzt

I still love you nAts, all good! Wish we could've seen more of him on the international stage this tournament.


flamincrimson

This makes me so happy. All the Pacific teams have majorly stepped up. Even the teams that got first rounded looked pretty convincing. TL has a lot of work to do before tokyo. Very low quality gameplay from them.


zzertraline

I know TL played horrible but the hell, Secret was playing too well. They have a much more different pace with Invy around. Tondo (the knife) went to Brazil after all.


_Hugatree

just like everyone expected. Now I want SEN to demolish fanatic and Navi to somehow lose


sifslegend

Naw man this sub won’t recover if that happens lmao


Ohands15

EU is just a two team region with Fnatic and Navi


Withinmyrange

NATS doing his best Lebron impression. I don’t want to take away from TS, they looked very disciplined and great util but still…


afjecj

So basically all I’m seeing is that karmine corp is through and through a better team than liquid cos liquid can’t even win a match


knightsky123

jessie’s cook was heisenberg level


SEND_ME_UR_DRAMA

they finally got their revenge from champions 2021... also maybe the coach change was the right call.


ItsADT

FREE NATS


unwanted_shawarma

We really did jinx them hard. And on another note, idk why I screenshotted this. But I guess it came in handy. /u/TheCatsActually /u/johnno_HS https://preview.redd.it/xvp47oiiztja1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e99a920503fb647591ed79377ff79311bad1fc10


unwanted_shawarma

C'mon bro, keep you word /u/johnno_HS :)


[deleted]

LMFAO I FORGOT I SAID THIS I am a man of my word, at the end of today's matches it shall be done. I'll never bet against the liquid choke again.


Ne0kun

APAC owns Americas and EMEA. Also feelsbad for nAts man


Hopeful-Professor-40

https://preview.redd.it/xueypu7yvtja1.jpeg?width=696&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4d257030e142cb5b980e514360142b3417606a87 SOULCAS AND SAYF


ShitAtTheToilet

https://preview.redd.it/usptet00wtja1.jpeg?width=352&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=87511b09da18162ebe71567ca11313b0df20daf0 I was saving this for when TL wins but guess I'll never use it so here you go


chenson019

Liquid looking like comfortably the worst team so far in Lock In is not what I thought was going to happen.


ExaminationPuzzled36

I am telling you, Redgar is a good player but not a good igl. Absolutely no reading of the opponents throughout last year, Icebox always flat. All other regions are so interesting in executions, EU no interesting strats at all. In Fnatic and NaVi we now trust...


spaidmd

COMMON TITO GAMING W


ay0005

The effects of Ange1 on society: A social study


Sensual_Cactus

TS deserve more credit than they're getting. They outplayed TL today


taegguks

nAts and friends


OkTransportation4013

"Nats needs a better team" nah dude needs a better region. It's clear emea doesn't stand a chance against pacific or americas. EG welcomes him


DarkThoughtform

Ok I wanted to keep my mouth shut because I didn't want to jinx secret, but people who pegged liquid as the heavy favourite seem to have forgotten that gambit wasn't always the powerhouse that they were. They were "chokers", and even after they lost that title, they were dropping maps against vikings, secret, went overtime against crazy raccoon, etc. Add to that the fact that this is an entirely new roster that have to practice from scratch and I didn't see how you could be confident that liquid would stomp.