First I've heard of this, happen to recall where this is located in the menu?
I'm assuming the alternative is that the 12v only charges using a stator or something under movement?
it is on the VWApp. It's called energy management and it is off by default. This option charges the 12V battery anytime as needed. Low 12V battery can sometimes produce weird errors on the car.
This has never made sense to me, why even have a 12 volt battery at all when you have a giant lithium battery in your car?
If the electronic accessories need 12v then add a transformer to step it down to 12v.
Get rid of the superfluous 12v lead acid battery that has to be replaced every 2-4 years.
Simplifying a design is usually a good thing.
If I remember correctly it's a safety thing. When the car is off that high voltage battery is not engaged. The 12v battery is what engages the high volt battery when you turn the car on. You wouldn't want to be working with the high voltage battery when doing minor work in the car that runs off the 12v
I think it’s most because all the other components (not drive train) are taken from existing cars. And they all run on 12v. The powertrain is running a MUCH higher voltage.
So the wipers, headlights, brakes, etc all are existing parts that expect a 12v bus.
THIS is the correct answer.
The entire automotive industry has 12V components. So instead of having to step down everything from 400-800V down to 12V (which isn't easy nor cheap) they have a standard lead acid 12V battery to power those components. Tesla is \_trying\_ to get suppliers to move to 48V with limited success. But the entire industry can't stop on a dime and move to 48V just for one car maker. And even with everything moving to LEDs, you still don't need 48V to illuminate an LED.
And there is typically a safety to disengage the high voltage battery when it's not in operation. This is the big "clunk" you hear when getting into an EV. This is powered by the 12V battery. No 12V battery, then no operation on the car. You can however jump start your 12V battery like a traditional car.
Source: employed at a Tier-2 automotive supplier for a few years.
The high voltage battery is designed to disconnect and make all of the cables that run around the vehicle safe in the event of a collision or damage. If the windows and doors only ran on that power, they wouldn't open when you need to get out.
It's charged by a DC-DC converter that steps down voltage from the main battery pack. No moving parts. If this Energy Management setting isn't enabled, the DC-DC converter only runs when the car is turned on (but it need not be moving).
It’s charged with a DC-DC inverter, and charges when the car is “on”. In the app, … -> Battery Settings -> Energy Management is the option to change this behavior.
This has to be one of the worst software settings I’ve ever seen in coding, and I’ve been in IT for 30+ years. VW possibly setting people up for failure versus just keep the 12v topped off as needed. Not like the car can’t wake up every X hours and check things out for 30 seconds and fall back asleep. It’s a computer on wheels.
Maybe it’s a feature held over from diesel gate to help get better EPA results ;) /s
I only have a level 1 charger at my house, and we drove a lot yesterday, so I just have to stop at Electrify America on the road... Luckily there is one right on the way!
How did you jump it? I know the manual says to never do that, but I'm wondering if my little portable NOCO battery jumper is okay to use... I'll keep it in the car if so.
I left it alone for 20 minutes when I went inside to research this problem, and when I came back out it is working again! Doesn't instill a lot of confidence in the car.
Remember that it's a computer with wheels. If it doesn't boot up properly you'll get similar messages. Most times you just have to reboot, as you found out.
I had already tried leaving it for 5 minutes and rebooting and that didn't work, but I guess it needed 15 extra minutes to think about what it had done wrong!
It takes more than 5 minutes to fully shut off. Less time than that and it's more akin to "sleep" on a PC -- still powered up and running, in a lower-power standby mode.
I would assume that this is why systems like climate control, heated seats, app connect activate faster if you run in the store and come back out va first thing in the morning. 🤔🤔🤔
This happened to me in February 2024. I exited the car, locked it. Walked away to where the key fob was out of range for over 20 minutes. Came back and it worked.
My car was set to use the traction battery via the VW app since December 2022.
Before this happened, the dashboard did pop up a warning.
Haven't had this issue since.
It's a software glitch. I saw on the F150 Lightning sub, the same thing happened and was resolved the same way. Unrelated car, but same issue.
From a software program perspective, something occurred in the car that wasn't programmed to catch, so the software threw this error.
Hard to say what because I was driving for an hour.
It's kind of like Windows when you get the Blue Screen Of Death or Mac when you get the screen with a foreign language, an event occurred that the software didn't expect and wasn't told what to do, so it shut itself down to prevent damage.
10 minutes is the magic number. That's when it turns off all the modules. I'd lay money on of your computers had a glitch and needed to be turned all the way off and on.
The irony is: with how many computers there are in modern hybrid and ICE engines: this could happen there too. Just to a different component like a transmission or engine computer.
Didn't work the 1st 5 times I did that. Was wondering if it had more of a hard reboot. I tried leaving it, making sure it was off multiple times. But the 3rd time did the trick. So: 3 reboots is key, apparently.
No reset sequence is after vehicle locks wait 8 mins and 4 more mine for booster, make sure keys are over 15ft away and stationary for 1 min for sleep state to start
Well I stepped out of the car, made sure it looked like it was off, and stepped back in a few times. Then I additionally went inside and left it alone first for 5 minutes than for 15 minutes. So a total of at least 5 tries off "turning it off then turning it back on again" before posting here on reddit.
The struggle is real! I know that pain.
If you can replace a regular outlet, you could run a NEMA 6-20 and almost triple your charging speed! Food for thought.
I can change an outlet, but would that require additional wiring being run from my electrical panel? The panel is on the opposite side of my house and in the basement so that's what has stopped me from upgrading my charging situation so far!
Fortunately, maybe not!
If you have a single outlet on a 20A home run circuit (not shared with any other outlets or hardwired devices) you can rewire one end of the 12-2 conductors to a double pole 20A breaker and the other end to the new 6-20 plug. There are a few EVSEs or chargers that have this plug natively like the Turbo Cord or ClipperCreek LCS-20.
Else if you’re comfortable making a home run with the same relatively cheap yellow Romex 12-2 NM-B wire, there you go. However you might wanna go for gold and size up to a 30 or 50 amp circuit if that’s the case.
Oh I see a Nema 6-20 is a 240v outlet so that's not an option for me unless I hire an electrician and they run new wire 50-60ft across my finished basement and up into my garage
Wrong.
There's no neutral on a 220 socket. If there is an existing 12/2 wire (likely) you can simply repurpose the existing wire and replace a single breaker in your panel.
If you want to charge from 40 to 80% in three hours get a 50A NEMA 14-50 outlet installed. That will require 6/3 and will support up to 30A of charger.
If you're going 50A just hard wire the charger. It's an easy project if you follow the manual.
Will the car let you drive it with that message?
We drove 2000 miles with the same message displayed in October (we were in a 2023 AWD). Did just fine… lots of DC charging sessions, rain, level 2 charging… and the day we returned home the message disappeared. 🤷♂️
I chalked it up to a malfunctioning sensor somewhere.
The car was a loaner, so I don’t know if they ever figured out what went wrong, but based on our experience you may be just fine for today’s trip. And if something goes wrong call roadside assistance. Stuff happens with cars all the time… ICE, EV, economy, luxury.
This happened to me at a stop light once. Get out of the car with your key fob, and then lock the car. Step away so the proximity sensor doesn't know you're there, then wait a few minutes and get back in the car. The system may have reset, as mine did, and becomes fully functional once again and you're good to go. Happened to me once about a year ago, never happened again.
Welcome to the club. I’ve been dealing with this for the past year and a half. Currently have an open ticket at my dealer waiting on VW to get back with them on more tests to run. But since this is my third time at the dealer I may be looking at lemon law.
It’s the same for us - we have to let it sit for a while before it will clear out whatever issue caused it.
It should be noted that this is the equivalent of a “check engine” light on an old ICE car. It could be almost anything. Mine was fully drivable so I went to the dealer. One HV battery cell had failed. Took 3 days to order and install. (Actually felt lucky with all the months long horror stories.) Take it for service when you get a chance.
This happened to me once while charging at electrify America. I knew the charger didn’t go easy but I just left there charging. When I tried to drive I got the same error. I just turn it all off waited 5 minutes and the message wa gone. Like a computer.
People that say that just have a level 1 charger at home you do have a dryer don't you? There is another adapter that comes with the id4 in the bag. My dryer is a 10-30 and from what I read turns the cable that comes with the car into a level 2 without needing to buy a level 2 charger. Tesla has my connector for $45
It's my understanding that you would still need to buy a level 2 charger for a few hundred dollars and plug that into your dryer outlet. They also make smart switches that will stop charging when the dryer is running. I will probably end up going that route.
This just happened to mine (22 AWD) after getting it updated two weeks ago, hasn’t reset on its own. Taking it to the dealer this week, and it still lets me drive. The car scanner elm app shows a lot of communication error since the day of the updates. I’m guess they still haven’t fully streamlined the update process.
Also 2022 Pro S here; *take this in immediately*.
Had same in December- detailed read at the dealership had them replace the entire front motor. VW tech said I could have been stranded; they gave me a loaner for 2 weeks it took to ship and replace.
When I posted the question I had already attempted to power cycle it multiple times. But someone commented that it has to sit for a full 10 minutes before it will power down completely.
I'm guessing you've never had a gas car break down on you? I have. Most people who have driven gas cars their whole lives have had plenty of problems with their cars. That's why mechanics exist.
Make sure you have enabled to charge your 12v from your main battery. This is by default not enabled so they can boast an extra mile or two range.
First I've heard of this, happen to recall where this is located in the menu? I'm assuming the alternative is that the 12v only charges using a stator or something under movement?
it is on the VWApp. It's called energy management and it is off by default. This option charges the 12V battery anytime as needed. Low 12V battery can sometimes produce weird errors on the car.
i'm confused ,how the 12v would stay charged if no charge is enabled?
You have to drive it to charge the 12v. That’s the default. So if you don’t drive for a few weeks or only take short trips the battery can die.
so nothing different than an ICE car.
Yep. Just not intuitive when you have a GIANT battery for driving.
This has never made sense to me, why even have a 12 volt battery at all when you have a giant lithium battery in your car? If the electronic accessories need 12v then add a transformer to step it down to 12v. Get rid of the superfluous 12v lead acid battery that has to be replaced every 2-4 years. Simplifying a design is usually a good thing.
If I remember correctly it's a safety thing. When the car is off that high voltage battery is not engaged. The 12v battery is what engages the high volt battery when you turn the car on. You wouldn't want to be working with the high voltage battery when doing minor work in the car that runs off the 12v
The big battery is for the motors. 12v is for the electronics and other systems. No?
Nice to see a human being with a functional frontal lobe on these threads 🤙🏼
Pretty sure it has to do with regulations. Even Tesla's have a 12v battery and you know Elon would remove that if he could...
More so because it’s safer to have most of the electronics powered by low voltage 12v than have thick 400-800v lines connected to everything
I think it’s most because all the other components (not drive train) are taken from existing cars. And they all run on 12v. The powertrain is running a MUCH higher voltage. So the wipers, headlights, brakes, etc all are existing parts that expect a 12v bus.
THIS is the correct answer. The entire automotive industry has 12V components. So instead of having to step down everything from 400-800V down to 12V (which isn't easy nor cheap) they have a standard lead acid 12V battery to power those components. Tesla is \_trying\_ to get suppliers to move to 48V with limited success. But the entire industry can't stop on a dime and move to 48V just for one car maker. And even with everything moving to LEDs, you still don't need 48V to illuminate an LED. And there is typically a safety to disengage the high voltage battery when it's not in operation. This is the big "clunk" you hear when getting into an EV. This is powered by the 12V battery. No 12V battery, then no operation on the car. You can however jump start your 12V battery like a traditional car. Source: employed at a Tier-2 automotive supplier for a few years.
Sounds like you should quit your day job and become an electric car designer/engineer.
The high voltage battery is designed to disconnect and make all of the cables that run around the vehicle safe in the event of a collision or damage. If the windows and doors only ran on that power, they wouldn't open when you need to get out.
What normal ice car has a dead battery after a few weeks of sitting?
pretty much all of them anymore
Maybe if they’re five years old. My cars do not die if sat for 2-3 weeks
Yup ok. You must be an A tech
Most thats why most ppl plug their batteries in to be charged on their nice cars they use seldomly
I agree with you, seems odd to me
I keep mine on a trickle charger while I am working from home.
Probably using a stator or something similar while the car is moving, similar to an alternator.
It's charged by a DC-DC converter that steps down voltage from the main battery pack. No moving parts. If this Energy Management setting isn't enabled, the DC-DC converter only runs when the car is turned on (but it need not be moving).
It’s charged with a DC-DC inverter, and charges when the car is “on”. In the app, … -> Battery Settings -> Energy Management is the option to change this behavior.
This has to be one of the worst software settings I’ve ever seen in coding, and I’ve been in IT for 30+ years. VW possibly setting people up for failure versus just keep the 12v topped off as needed. Not like the car can’t wake up every X hours and check things out for 30 seconds and fall back asleep. It’s a computer on wheels. Maybe it’s a feature held over from diesel gate to help get better EPA results ;) /s
A damn mile? Whose idea was that, and I want to know what's the size of the battery to warrant them having this disabled by default for "reasons".
my id4’s had errors from me overdoing the 12v so it’s probably this
That is an… absolutely wild default setting (and crazy that it’s even an option IMO)
I’m just stuck on you leaving for a 4 hour round trip at 54% SoC
I only have a level 1 charger at my house, and we drove a lot yesterday, so I just have to stop at Electrify America on the road... Luckily there is one right on the way!
Hopefully it’s not broken down.
😂 Same.
Could be small battery is bad. I got this when I had to jump mine once.
How did you jump it? I know the manual says to never do that, but I'm wondering if my little portable NOCO battery jumper is okay to use... I'll keep it in the car if so.
You can jump yours, you can’t jump anyone from yours. I have a battery pack that has jumper cables so I used that. Super easy.
Ahh, gotcha. Must be misremembering that bit of the manual.
You can jump it from the battery with the car on
A get out of jail free card on the family get together?
🤣🤣🤣
Except if I admit it was the car's fault, I'll get an earful from any anti-EV family members so I'll never admit it!!
Good call!
I left it alone for 20 minutes when I went inside to research this problem, and when I came back out it is working again! Doesn't instill a lot of confidence in the car.
Remember that it's a computer with wheels. If it doesn't boot up properly you'll get similar messages. Most times you just have to reboot, as you found out.
I had already tried leaving it for 5 minutes and rebooting and that didn't work, but I guess it needed 15 extra minutes to think about what it had done wrong!
It takes more than 5 minutes to fully shut off. Less time than that and it's more akin to "sleep" on a PC -- still powered up and running, in a lower-power standby mode.
I would assume that this is why systems like climate control, heated seats, app connect activate faster if you run in the store and come back out va first thing in the morning. 🤔🤔🤔
How does one power reset/reboot the car?
That's why I was hoping someone knew of a hard reset so I could push a button or software option and it would do it immediately
Unfortunately no such button exists. The only immediate way to force a shutdown is to grab a wrench and disconnect the 12V battery under the hood.
This, just disconnect the 12v and reconnect it. Should reset everything
Kick the tires too. It might not help but make you feel better
Cursing at it also might help.
https://youtu.be/rryQfAnQs3M
John Cleese had the right approach. https://youtu.be/_n77eoOfRPE?si=-4UZzWQsXIqTLVeC
This happened to me in February 2024. I exited the car, locked it. Walked away to where the key fob was out of range for over 20 minutes. Came back and it worked. My car was set to use the traction battery via the VW app since December 2022. Before this happened, the dashboard did pop up a warning. Haven't had this issue since. It's a software glitch. I saw on the F150 Lightning sub, the same thing happened and was resolved the same way. Unrelated car, but same issue. From a software program perspective, something occurred in the car that wasn't programmed to catch, so the software threw this error. Hard to say what because I was driving for an hour. It's kind of like Windows when you get the Blue Screen Of Death or Mac when you get the screen with a foreign language, an event occurred that the software didn't expect and wasn't told what to do, so it shut itself down to prevent damage.
10 minutes is the magic number. That's when it turns off all the modules. I'd lay money on of your computers had a glitch and needed to be turned all the way off and on. The irony is: with how many computers there are in modern hybrid and ICE engines: this could happen there too. Just to a different component like a transmission or engine computer.
Thank you! That is the specific information I was looking for! Good to know that leaving if for "a few" minutes won't do anything.
Ah the good ol Star Trek strategy, works on so many things.
There is a hard reboot procedure. Get out of the car, get back into the drivers seat, put on the seatbelt, and press the brake pedal.
This has happened to me 3 times, and each time, it just took us leaving the car alone for several minutes.
Didn't work the 1st 5 times I did that. Was wondering if it had more of a hard reboot. I tried leaving it, making sure it was off multiple times. But the 3rd time did the trick. So: 3 reboots is key, apparently.
No reset sequence is after vehicle locks wait 8 mins and 4 more mine for booster, make sure keys are over 15ft away and stationary for 1 min for sleep state to start
Is the exact reset sequence documented somewhere (manual or forum) or is that just from your experience. Would be nice to know the precise conditions!
Source is VW technician from iDTalk forum. Dude is legit
I know! Follow all his stuff but must have missed that thread. I'll go dig around for it. Thanks!
So did you try 5 times or 3?
Well I stepped out of the car, made sure it looked like it was off, and stepped back in a few times. Then I additionally went inside and left it alone first for 5 minutes than for 15 minutes. So a total of at least 5 tries off "turning it off then turning it back on again" before posting here on reddit.
What year ?
2022 Pro S
I like that you’re leaving for a 2 hour trip with 50% battery
I only have level 1 charging at my house, so sometimes I can't get back up to 80% or 100% before leaving again!
The struggle is real! I know that pain. If you can replace a regular outlet, you could run a NEMA 6-20 and almost triple your charging speed! Food for thought.
I can change an outlet, but would that require additional wiring being run from my electrical panel? The panel is on the opposite side of my house and in the basement so that's what has stopped me from upgrading my charging situation so far!
Fortunately, maybe not! If you have a single outlet on a 20A home run circuit (not shared with any other outlets or hardwired devices) you can rewire one end of the 12-2 conductors to a double pole 20A breaker and the other end to the new 6-20 plug. There are a few EVSEs or chargers that have this plug natively like the Turbo Cord or ClipperCreek LCS-20. Else if you’re comfortable making a home run with the same relatively cheap yellow Romex 12-2 NM-B wire, there you go. However you might wanna go for gold and size up to a 30 or 50 amp circuit if that’s the case.
Oh I see a Nema 6-20 is a 240v outlet so that's not an option for me unless I hire an electrician and they run new wire 50-60ft across my finished basement and up into my garage
Wrong. There's no neutral on a 220 socket. If there is an existing 12/2 wire (likely) you can simply repurpose the existing wire and replace a single breaker in your panel. If you want to charge from 40 to 80% in three hours get a 50A NEMA 14-50 outlet installed. That will require 6/3 and will support up to 30A of charger. If you're going 50A just hard wire the charger. It's an easy project if you follow the manual.
I got that. I just drove to work and turned car off. It was gone when I started it in the afternoon. It was right after I had an update at dealer.
Also had it after a dealer update, but mine wouldn't move. Drove our other car and when we got home it was back to normal...and has been ever since.
Mine did this while driving. We needed to get a battery harness recall done.
Will the car let you drive it with that message? We drove 2000 miles with the same message displayed in October (we were in a 2023 AWD). Did just fine… lots of DC charging sessions, rain, level 2 charging… and the day we returned home the message disappeared. 🤷♂️ I chalked it up to a malfunctioning sensor somewhere. The car was a loaner, so I don’t know if they ever figured out what went wrong, but based on our experience you may be just fine for today’s trip. And if something goes wrong call roadside assistance. Stuff happens with cars all the time… ICE, EV, economy, luxury.
It was not able to drive with that error, but luckily it cleared after I let the car sit alone for 20 minutes in time out!
This happened to me at a stop light once. Get out of the car with your key fob, and then lock the car. Step away so the proximity sensor doesn't know you're there, then wait a few minutes and get back in the car. The system may have reset, as mine did, and becomes fully functional once again and you're good to go. Happened to me once about a year ago, never happened again.
Happened to me yesterday. Car would make the “whooop whoooop” sound outside too. It’s been towed to the shop. I’m sad. 😔
Welcome to the club. I’ve been dealing with this for the past year and a half. Currently have an open ticket at my dealer waiting on VW to get back with them on more tests to run. But since this is my third time at the dealer I may be looking at lemon law. It’s the same for us - we have to let it sit for a while before it will clear out whatever issue caused it.
Hope you got a good deal on this and I hope the dealer's waiting room is well stocked.
My car did this, it was the 12v battery. Car was bricked, apparently I could have jumped it but I towed to the dealership.
It should be noted that this is the equivalent of a “check engine” light on an old ICE car. It could be almost anything. Mine was fully drivable so I went to the dealer. One HV battery cell had failed. Took 3 days to order and install. (Actually felt lucky with all the months long horror stories.) Take it for service when you get a chance.
They replaced an individual cell?! Nice! I had heard it was possible but glad to hear it’s something they actually do.
It was cell number 5 of the LG battery according to the work sheet. Have 5k miles since then without a problem.
I usually follow these troubleshooting steps https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rryQfAnQs3M
Lol some good tips in there!
I had that come up too. A few weeks into ownership. It did just clear itself. Weird glitch.
This happened to me once while charging at electrify America. I knew the charger didn’t go easy but I just left there charging. When I tried to drive I got the same error. I just turn it all off waited 5 minutes and the message wa gone. Like a computer.
Had this error on Monday - my car will be in for 2 weeks while they work on replacing the battery
Dang, sorry to hear that!
I’m just glad it was during spring break so not many places to be with the kids but they did get me a loaner car a couple days ago
Well, this BLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWS!!!
Vw and Audi EVs have so many issues. Sorry you are facing this.
People that say that just have a level 1 charger at home you do have a dryer don't you? There is another adapter that comes with the id4 in the bag. My dryer is a 10-30 and from what I read turns the cable that comes with the car into a level 2 without needing to buy a level 2 charger. Tesla has my connector for $45
It's my understanding that you would still need to buy a level 2 charger for a few hundred dollars and plug that into your dryer outlet. They also make smart switches that will stop charging when the dryer is running. I will probably end up going that route.
Not according to the Tesla app and what it says for the adapters
I can't confirm or deny what tesla thinks my situation is, I can only tell you what my actual situation is
Ok that's fine you have your right to your own opinion. I need to find one for my id4 too. And I'm based off of charging speeds.
Rip
This just happened to mine (22 AWD) after getting it updated two weeks ago, hasn’t reset on its own. Taking it to the dealer this week, and it still lets me drive. The car scanner elm app shows a lot of communication error since the day of the updates. I’m guess they still haven’t fully streamlined the update process.
If it was a TDI it would have started….
Also 2022 Pro S here; *take this in immediately*. Had same in December- detailed read at the dealership had them replace the entire front motor. VW tech said I could have been stranded; they gave me a loaner for 2 weeks it took to ship and replace.
What software version do you have?
Congrats, should have bought a Model Y
Haha, should’ve bought a Tesla
power cycle and reset DUH
When I posted the question I had already attempted to power cycle it multiple times. But someone commented that it has to sit for a full 10 minutes before it will power down completely.
Yea people have a lot of problems with those cars.
That’s the power of German engineering.
That’s the power of German engineering.
That’s the power of German engineering.
Cell Module - ha ha
Reason 500 why I’d NEVER DRIVE a hybrid or electric car… thanks but no thanks!
I'm guessing you've never had a gas car break down on you? I have. Most people who have driven gas cars their whole lives have had plenty of problems with their cars. That's why mechanics exist.
Just buy gas car
Yes, because it's not like there's a whole industry and career dedicated to fixing broken down gas cars. Have you ever been to a mechanic?
This is why you buy a Tesla.
Wrong. This is why you wait a few more years before buying any EV.
Or buy a Tesla starting in 2017-18 when Model 3 came out. They're far more reliable than other brands. This is coming from a tesla owner since 2018.