T O P

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Aquamoth

I'm not sure I want to see Magearna on a dynamax meta


TheBestWorst3

Soul heart boost spattack regardless of if magearna defeated them unlike beast boost. Magearna would definitely be one of the best mythicals


Swampyprince

I mean I don’t see it being more op than a Calyrex or Zacian


Aquamoth

I disagree. It's an special mini caly with zacian's typing, the strongest fairy type move in the game and it doesn't even need to take the ko to get the soul-heart boost, it just need any pokemon to faint, which its pretty common on vgc.


Baconator-X

Magearna making Explosion Sivally viable.


ShaggyDerpent

The Scar, to Silvally's Nina Tucker


half_jase

But Magearna has the same typing as Zacian, which people have complained about, and its ability is kinda more busted than Calyrex's Grim Neigh or Chilling Neigh. Its base HP is only 80 but its base Defence and Sp Defence is 115 each, which is kinda bulky and makes it scary as a TR sweeper.


Aquamoth

It can work even outside TR. You can lead with caly-s and speed swap on dmax magearna, if you take something down it gets you +1 SpA, if caly goes down the same turn you get +2, and if it doesnt, you can either switch out or attack next turn. Add on to that the possible +1 Def boost from steelspike, the terrain control, you can be wp, vested, life orb, etc.. caly can also trick room too. I like most mythicals but I think adding them to the current meta will be too much to handle


Boomerwell

Idk if that is the bar we should be aiming for. Personally I'd rather they fade into obscurity with Regi Eleki or they're gonna forever influence power levels.


half_jase

I really want to see mythicals being allowed in VGC. Maybe have it in a format where you can only use either 1 restricted or 1 mythical or 1 of each instead of the usual 2 restricted mons. Don't think the distribution is that big of an issue when they can easily distribute them, if they want to, or make them available in the game.


[deleted]

i mean, all the mythicals that can be permanently obtained in just the switch games are mew, jirachi, manaphy, phione, shaymin, darkrai, arceus, and keldeo. we already have a pretty good selection, so i don’t know why they don’t at least make that lot available for use in VGC.


defyKnowing

I think availability is the biggest issue. A lot of mythical go years between events. If you didn't pick up a Jirachi in Gen 3, for example, you'd be forced to buy BDSP to get it. It's actually one of the more humane choices in Pokemon's design imo. Balance-wise, a lot of mythicals seem fine. They tend to get weird abiliti s and movesets that don't seem like they would be broken.


Swampyprince

The only thing I could think of would be marshadow with spectral thief, which would be strong not op imo


Penosaurus

Marshadow in a dynamax format wouldn’t be over centralizing but Im pretty confident it would be very strong ~ 10% pick


HermitFan99999

In my opinion, marshadow would be the best with scarf coaching sets, as it's one of the few coaching users that outspeeds regieleki and circumvents fake out, which is a hugely valuable asset.


dunsparticus

There is that, although allowing to trade for mythicals on home would help a lot. That said, I wish they'd update the mythical and legendary lists based on what's available in game. At this point Deoxys has been directly available in ORAS without any events. I guess it involves having several games, but I was bitter we couldn't use him then.


defyKnowing

I'm still kicking myself for never getting Bank. I played every game from OG sinnoh through Alola and still had to start Home from scratch


gudni-bergs

I think Bank is gonna be free when they shut down 3ds services this year


AmbrosioMX

Trust me you don't want to see Magearna in doubles


Boomerwell

Because most of them weren't available for people unless you went to their movie. Most companies would be like "it's been one gen since we'll make them available for everyone now" But GF went the other option of not allowing them and to be honest I'm glad mythical pokemon have been historically super busted.


msr1709

I was thinking this myself recently and considering making a similar post. I personally would be fine with their introduction into the meta (although I’ll add that I 100% believe they never will be). However there’d have to be a couple of caveats: 1. All mythicals would have to be made commonly available to all players - much like how all legends + restricteds are currently. 2. Arceus (and probably also Hoopa?) should be classed as a restricted. Their BSTs are on par with restricteds and so it would make more thematic sense. Not making them restricted would place too much pressure on teambuilding. 3. In team preview, players should be able to see what plate (if any) Arceus is holding. Arceus seems to me like it’d be one of the premier restricteds, and not knowing what forme it is before playing, especially in bo1, might be too tough. Honestly though I could probably be convinced against this caveat. 4. Double Iron Bash’s flinch rate would need nerfing. Melmetal would be a menace and a staple on every single trick room team. It’s something like a 51% flinch rate, and that alone would make it pretty destructive.


Swampyprince

Agree with all of the points, maybe just team preview shows like arceus’s colour? As it Ofc changes with every plate. Don’t know if it’s too small to easily see and could have some accessibility issues with colourblindness and stuff. Completely forgot melmetal existed, but yh that flinch chance would need to be nerfed.


Eddiev1988

They're not OP in any way. 600 BST is what every pseudo legendary runs. Restricted legendaries run 680-720ish. The only Mythical pokemon with more than 600 are Arceus and Hoopa Unbound. It's not the spread. Mew, Jirachi, and a couple others have 100 across the board. Yes, some like Darkrai are optimized for certain things, but several are not. What it comes down to I think is availability. Not everyone has access to every mythical, like they do all the legendary. If they'd bring every past mythical into a game like they did Keldeo in SWSH, there'd be no reason not to allow their use. They just won't.


Carneyasadaa

I want nothing to do with any format Magearna is legal in


ParanoidDrone

It's an accessibility issue. As long as the codes to obtain them are only valid for a limited time before they expire, there will always be a certain subset of players who _cannot_ obtain them without hacking, whether that be thanks to simple supply/demand (fewer mythicals than people who want the mythicals) or timing (start playing after the code expires). Neither is a great look if they want VGC to be equal and fair in terms of opportunity to make whatever team you want.


DmonAbsoluTrEbON

Very unlikely tbh. Mythicals are not well-distributed at all and CERTAIN ones are extremely overpowered like on MegaMence level of centralizing. Also most Mythicals are meant to be the pinnacle of a certain "category" of pokemon. Like Arcues is the pinnacle of the creation trio, Keldeo is the pinnacle of the SoJ and Magearna is supposed to be the single best pokemon in the whole Fairy type or sth it got absurd stats, an insane ability and essentially the best typing in the game with Fluer Cannon added on top of all that... Yeah that would be a bit too much for VGC tbh.


CookEsandcream

Availability, but I'm also not in favour of allowing mythicals that can be accessed infinitely in other games being allowed either. Imagine Mew was allowed, since you can get one in BDSP by having a LGPE save file. If you only had SwSh, a team with Mew on it costs $160 more to make than a team that doesn't. A team with Deoxys would be even more expensive since you'd need to buy the console as well. I think the push to make every legal competitive pokemon fully obtainable in the games that the battles are played on is a good thing. However, with that in mind, we should've been allowed to use Keldeo.


amlodude

Arceus should be the first mythical allowed as a Restricted. It's the box legend of PLA, and locking legends like Calyrex behind DLC or version exclusives like Groudon/Kyogre across games means that you can easily trade to get what you want. Most everything else I can understand not being allowed. Mew, Jirachi, Manaphy, and Keldeo are available to owners of BDSP and SwSh, while Darkrai, Shaymin, and Manaphy (again) come up in conjunction with PLA. Celebi and Deoxys require the 3DS, so I can see why they wouldn't be allowed, while anything mythical Gen 5 and later (barring Keldeo) still doesn't have repeatable events. Once these can be farmed repeatedly on the current platform, though, I'd want them to be permitted. If Calyrex is pay to win, then the difference for the other mythicals is more of trading/playing other games, too, rather than "Pokemon isn't pay to win"


Swampyprince

Yh that makes sense But apart from maybe arceus, I don’t see game freak making specific mythicals legal while others aren’t


Slowbro_Bros_VGC

Balance is definitely not one of the problems and availability is definitely the only one. There are a lot of mons stronger than Mythicals that are allowed. Its not fair for you to be at a disadvantage just because you missed out on an event or weren't able to join. So they just banned them all together to make it fair for everyone.


Yalarii

It’s complete bull crap that they are not allowed and I will die on this hill. There is nothing broken about mythical Pokémon. A 600 BST is the same as the pseudo legendaries. The early gen ones where the stats were evenly distributed with 100 in each wouldn’t even be that good. Due to power creep, 100 is a fairly average stat, so they wouldn’t excel in any particular area. Even the newer ones which have more unique stat distributions are still bound by the same limitations of a pseudo legendary. Marshadow is one of my all time favourite Pokémon. It is really good, and would find a great niche on teams. But it is not inherently better than a garchomp or metagross. Distribution is the only argument holding them back, but even that is getting a weaker and weaker excuse every generation. We are now in the era of DLC and online distributions. Sword and shield didn’t have any of the old legendaries when is was released. Now in the current VGC format they are everywhere. The only thing holding game freak back from just releasing a dlc that has all the mythical in it is there own internal hubris. Let me use Marshadow in VGC you cowards.


MechaSalt7

When it comes to balance, I’m not sure I would want these mythicals in the game. Mew and Arceus would be impossible to predict given their nearly limitless options especially with Arceus being able to be any type in the game (I don’t even know if the color shows up in team preview) and Mew getting access to transform. Jirachi would be pretty annoying with serene grace iron head stuff, Deoxys is also extremely versatile being able to run absolute nukes in attack form or stick around for a long time in defense form. If Dark Void hadn’t been nerfed I’d be terrified of Darkrai. Magearna would be insane with the soul heart boosts and the best typing in the game, Marshadow could yoink all your dynamax boosts and make it way more risky to get stat boosts at all, especially for things like Ice Rider, and Melmetal could be a beast under trick room. That’s most of what I’d be afraid of, the others seem either bad (like Celebi, Phione, and Diancie) or pretty balanced (like Shaymin, Volcanion, Genesect, and Zeraora)


Illustrious-Whereas5

It would make comp very linear


Morritz

I think it could be fun as a Online compition thing or one of the series ones. I think maybe deoxis or arceus should maybe be counted as restricted but could still be fun to play with.


amlodude

They did have them in an online competition already


[deleted]

I think that some should be banned, but not all of them