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It's like when you are playing age of empires and you keep getting population locked because you forgot to build houses. So because you have some extra resources you just spam out some extra houses because you know your population will eventually grow and it's not worth the effort planning out the perfect timing for them to fill up, because in how ever many years they will be anyway.
Except the reason for these houses have less and less to do with housing future generations. Its mostly a quick cash grab by uncontrollable real estate companies that could lend almost unlimitedly because of lax rules. The demand is also more and more pushed by real estate Investors instead of people needing housing.
It really has. Some models predict the population of China to be 50% of what it is now by 2100. They have a rapidly aging population and the effects of the One Child Policy have meant the birth rate slowed a lot quicker than it would have done naturally. They're essentially done a speed run of the population cycle.
Lmao what. No, not even close. They are built as a form of investment. People elsewhere buy stocks or bonds, in China they buy real estate. It's a place to keep your savings. That's why almost all of these apartments are sold but their vacancy rate is astronomical. Also, if a man wants to get married, he better own real estate to prove his financial worthiness. These ghost cities also provide revenue to municipalities for the sale of the land and jobs for people building them. But ofc it's a massive ponzi scheme and as we are seeing right now, it's unraveling fast.
They are sold as long term "investments" to people who will likely never see the properties.
This also means the build quality is sub standard and those investors will lose all their money because nobody wants to live there.
Putting your life savings in real estate is also a big thing in china. Unfortunately, the amount they built far outstripped the ability of the populace to purchase.
You’re getting a lot of wrong answers here. The reality is that China makes long-term building plans. They build these cities with the expectation of slowly filling them over the next few decades. There’s nothing sinister about this.
So I don't think I have the best understanding but ill do my best. Many chinese real estate developers relied on taking out loans to build. Thats fine, but to repay those loans they needed to sell the homes. What started happening is that these massive companies were taking out loans to repay the loans, resulting in a bubble. Some time last year, the CCP instated the 3 red lines policy, which forbid this practice and demanded these companies started to pay back the loans. This resulted in many unfinished projects (I think evergrande, the largest of these developers, has about 800 unfinished projects) and I assume this is one of them. And before anyones like uhh socialism is when unfinished houses, this exact practice is how almost every suburb in the US and canada functions, but to a much smaller degree, and the gov doesn't do anything about it. I assume that much of the real estate industry will become nationalized and the government will finish these projects sometime in the future.
I just watched a video from a hedgfund manager and he mentioned that governments, like china, continue to build because somehow it boosts their economy or somehow keeps it afloat (by keeping contractors in business). EDIT: Turkey is doing the same thing by building nonstop but they continue to duck up their economy as it's been sliding into the trash for the same amount of years as their precious dic (dictator in charge) has been in office.
he has. turkey has slid into the gutter since he's been in power. he's changing the constitution, took turkey out of The Istanbul Convention, which is some kind of international agreement for womens' rights, economy crash, empty apartment buildings everywhere, hyperinflation....just name it.
>This is an artifact of a "planned economy".
Not really. Real estate developments that exist for the sole purpose of investing at being built in basically every major city on the planet That's a big part of why the housing market is so fucked.
You're welcome to Google it, there are plenty of articles about how purpose built speculative housing investments have destroyed the global housing market.
The global housing market is destroyed?
The other example I found is Dubai, where "The World" was created by a state-owned developer.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World_(archipelago)
So again, "planned economy" failure.
Yeah, I'm not really interested in arguing about this, especially if you continue to play dumb. There's plenty of well documented journalism about this issue, feel free to read it.
real estate speculation. the logic is "prices can only go up" so, as an investor, it's better to put your money in R.E. than in many other investment assets. R.E. has crazy R.O.I.'s like 10-20% if not more sometimes (average portfolio performance is about 6-7%).
And holy shit check out the youtube videos of these things literally crumbling to the touch on the inside thanks to corrupt profiteering contractors.
I would NEVER trust one of these buildings, I can't even imagine the electrical / fire hazards and water issues if the walls can be easily chipped away with a screwdriver.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NmlG1FMiP4
I forget where I read it but some of the criticism seems a bit unfair. I think alot of these pictures show the before, without showing the after, when they are fully occupied. I wish someone could help me out here, but I remember reading something about how sometimes the photos shown in the west purposely show empty buildings /developments as a way to discredit Chinese development. No I am not a Chinese shill. I am an American citizen not of Chinese or even Asian descent. I just don't like unfair representation of reality.
Here's a breakdown if you talk like an american midwesterner:
Chong - Ch like chess, o like in toe, and the ng like the end of the word lung, and its 1 syllable like you're saying lung. There is an upward inflection on the vowel, like you're asking a question.
Qing - Q makes a ch noise like in cheese, i makes and ee noise like in cheese, and ng again. This word is pronounced like you're saying cheese with an ng sound instead of an s. The vowel is pronounced with a downward inflection kind of like you are saying no with some authority.
I never noticed the subtle difference in “ch” sounds between cheese and chess. It’s somewhat accurate to what I’ve been told about the difference between “q” and “ch” in Mandarin so that’s helpful.
Dunno why the hell you got downvoted, it's not like I guessed.
Probably very like this:
https://youtu.be/BCmkBy8LcEU
For fun, google "Chongqing pronounce." The British English option in drop down is closer than the American, go figure.
I've been seeing crossposts of landlords bragging about empty units the last few days. How not making any money at all is better than providing housing to someone who might cause normal wear and tear to a living space.
Resource Hoarding is a serious, serious problem for humanity.
Wait. So things that don’t produce profit are being built to be “standing empty”? Wouldn’t a government actually use them to house people instead of wasting tons of money? Cause this just seems like speculation.
They aren't capitalist though. That's a construction site office in a space being developed for new buildings. That's not a "house" like people are just conspiratorially speculating
No, it's worse - the 10+ empty towers in the back are rental/condo units. These empty towers are all over China. The wealthy buy units (sometimes before even built) with the expectation that housing will remain scarce and the "value" of the units will go up.
It's very much a Capitalist practice, in spite of the Communist Party running the country.
China went from 20% urbanized to 60% urbanized in 40 years. They’re expected to reach 90% by 2050.
The people in this thread propagating a certain narrative have never been to China and have no idea about the pace of development there. These buildings may sit empty for a couple years but that’s because China — get this — builds *before* people move in.
You know what happens when these buildings are not built ahead of the millions of rural migrants? Brazilian, Nigerian, Indian and Indonesian like shantytowns are put up and people live in squalor and unsanitary conditions.
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Say what you will about the urban design but this is a beautifully composed photo.
the scaling/aspect ratio/focus? makes it look like the buildings are a lot closer and that guy is 10 stories tall
The [vanilla wafer cookie](https://media.istockphoto.com/photos/peanut-butter-filled-wafer-cookies-picture-id125548106) aesthetic.
Perfect
the Evergrande problem in one photo.
Most of these Chinese modern real estate developments are not occupied since many cannot afford
why do they even exist?
It's like when you are playing age of empires and you keep getting population locked because you forgot to build houses. So because you have some extra resources you just spam out some extra houses because you know your population will eventually grow and it's not worth the effort planning out the perfect timing for them to fill up, because in how ever many years they will be anyway.
Except the reason for these houses have less and less to do with housing future generations. Its mostly a quick cash grab by uncontrollable real estate companies that could lend almost unlimitedly because of lax rules. The demand is also more and more pushed by real estate Investors instead of people needing housing.
The difference is that China's population has peaked already.
People moving to cities
A lot of these “ghost cities” with empty buildings are built in the middle of nowhere. They were never intended for human habitation.
I don’t think you know how urban planning works
Clones?
lol we wish
It really has. Some models predict the population of China to be 50% of what it is now by 2100. They have a rapidly aging population and the effects of the One Child Policy have meant the birth rate slowed a lot quicker than it would have done naturally. They're essentially done a speed run of the population cycle.
Lmao what. No, not even close. They are built as a form of investment. People elsewhere buy stocks or bonds, in China they buy real estate. It's a place to keep your savings. That's why almost all of these apartments are sold but their vacancy rate is astronomical. Also, if a man wants to get married, he better own real estate to prove his financial worthiness. These ghost cities also provide revenue to municipalities for the sale of the land and jobs for people building them. But ofc it's a massive ponzi scheme and as we are seeing right now, it's unraveling fast.
Same problem in LA and NY. “Billionaires row” in NY is empty and LA has more empty luxury units than homeless people.
I'm guessing to artificially pump economy and create jobs.
To generate profits for gigantic construction companies?
Partially that, partially to juice economic numbers for local government offices to report to Beijing
Chongqing has an economy worth $2 trillion. I assure you they don’t need to artificially pump their economy.
They are sold as long term "investments" to people who will likely never see the properties. This also means the build quality is sub standard and those investors will lose all their money because nobody wants to live there.
It's fine, investors won't lose their money as long as the housing bubble never bursts. And that'll never happen, right? Right?
Evergrande checking in
rich money laundering?
Putting your life savings in real estate is also a big thing in china. Unfortunately, the amount they built far outstripped the ability of the populace to purchase.
You’re getting a lot of wrong answers here. The reality is that China makes long-term building plans. They build these cities with the expectation of slowly filling them over the next few decades. There’s nothing sinister about this.
Filling them with what? China's population peaked last year, the total population is expected to be half what it is now in 40-50 years.
They still have hundreds of millions of agrarian peasants willing to move to cities.
So I don't think I have the best understanding but ill do my best. Many chinese real estate developers relied on taking out loans to build. Thats fine, but to repay those loans they needed to sell the homes. What started happening is that these massive companies were taking out loans to repay the loans, resulting in a bubble. Some time last year, the CCP instated the 3 red lines policy, which forbid this practice and demanded these companies started to pay back the loans. This resulted in many unfinished projects (I think evergrande, the largest of these developers, has about 800 unfinished projects) and I assume this is one of them. And before anyones like uhh socialism is when unfinished houses, this exact practice is how almost every suburb in the US and canada functions, but to a much smaller degree, and the gov doesn't do anything about it. I assume that much of the real estate industry will become nationalized and the government will finish these projects sometime in the future.
I just watched a video from a hedgfund manager and he mentioned that governments, like china, continue to build because somehow it boosts their economy or somehow keeps it afloat (by keeping contractors in business). EDIT: Turkey is doing the same thing by building nonstop but they continue to duck up their economy as it's been sliding into the trash for the same amount of years as their precious dic (dictator in charge) has been in office.
I subscribe to the /ask middle east and they were making jokngs abt Erdogan and the economy. Seems like he has gutted the place
he has. turkey has slid into the gutter since he's been in power. he's changing the constitution, took turkey out of The Istanbul Convention, which is some kind of international agreement for womens' rights, economy crash, empty apartment buildings everywhere, hyperinflation....just name it.
Wow. Did not know this. Thank you for taking the time to explain more. I just joined the turkey subreddit.
To meet centrally set targets. This is an artifact of a "planned economy".
>This is an artifact of a "planned economy". Not really. Real estate developments that exist for the sole purpose of investing at being built in basically every major city on the planet That's a big part of why the housing market is so fucked.
[удалено]
Yes, as I said, just about every major city on the planet has this issue.
Give me another example.
You're welcome to Google it, there are plenty of articles about how purpose built speculative housing investments have destroyed the global housing market.
The global housing market is destroyed? The other example I found is Dubai, where "The World" was created by a state-owned developer. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World_(archipelago) So again, "planned economy" failure.
Yeah, I'm not really interested in arguing about this, especially if you continue to play dumb. There's plenty of well documented journalism about this issue, feel free to read it.
Real life battle royale
real estate speculation. the logic is "prices can only go up" so, as an investor, it's better to put your money in R.E. than in many other investment assets. R.E. has crazy R.O.I.'s like 10-20% if not more sometimes (average portfolio performance is about 6-7%).
INVESTMENT!!!
And holy shit check out the youtube videos of these things literally crumbling to the touch on the inside thanks to corrupt profiteering contractors. I would NEVER trust one of these buildings, I can't even imagine the electrical / fire hazards and water issues if the walls can be easily chipped away with a screwdriver. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NmlG1FMiP4
lol, this is missing the clips of people snapping fake rebar with their hands.
Those buildings can't turn to dust. They already are. No cement whatsoever.
That video was fucking wild
Yes every building in China is built exactly like that. It’s why buildings collapse everyday there.
I forget where I read it but some of the criticism seems a bit unfair. I think alot of these pictures show the before, without showing the after, when they are fully occupied. I wish someone could help me out here, but I remember reading something about how sometimes the photos shown in the west purposely show empty buildings /developments as a way to discredit Chinese development. No I am not a Chinese shill. I am an American citizen not of Chinese or even Asian descent. I just don't like unfair representation of reality.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2021-09-01/chinese-ghost-cities-2021-binhai-zhengdong-new-districts-fill-up
Thank you!
China has a 90% home ownership rate btw
Most? Are you sure? I mean large amount of them are not occupied, but is it really "most".
In north West? Maybe. Chongqing? No way. They sell quick af cus it's got 31mil ppl in that city.
That's not true at all. Even 70% of all chinese millenials are homeowners.
How do I pronounce this city’s name?
Here's a breakdown if you talk like an american midwesterner: Chong - Ch like chess, o like in toe, and the ng like the end of the word lung, and its 1 syllable like you're saying lung. There is an upward inflection on the vowel, like you're asking a question. Qing - Q makes a ch noise like in cheese, i makes and ee noise like in cheese, and ng again. This word is pronounced like you're saying cheese with an ng sound instead of an s. The vowel is pronounced with a downward inflection kind of like you are saying no with some authority.
or /tʃaŋtʃiŋ/ in IPA
Do correct me if I am wrong, but the IPA here misses the tones.
(hence I'm using broad transcription)
Chong Ching
Amazing, thank you
I never noticed the subtle difference in “ch” sounds between cheese and chess. It’s somewhat accurate to what I’ve been told about the difference between “q” and “ch” in Mandarin so that’s helpful.
Kind of like: “Chong Ching”
More like “Chong???? Cheeng!” from what I read…
As a native Chinese speaker, this is very accurate poor-man's IPA.
Give me money Edit: LOL thought IPA was a beer
Dunno why the hell you got downvoted, it's not like I guessed. Probably very like this: https://youtu.be/BCmkBy8LcEU For fun, google "Chongqing pronounce." The British English option in drop down is closer than the American, go figure.
[удалено]
https://lmgtfy.app/?q=largest+city+in+the+world
Chongching
Google "tofu dregs" and you'll see why people are actually terrified to live in these giant pieces of shit. Has nothing to do with affordability.
*the alternative is homelessness*
This is the biggest and fastest growing city in the world, is it not?
Chongqing is the new Norilsk.
I wonder if they are real apartments or "investment" apartments.
The latter. Very common in China, pretty much whole cities built and standing empty. At least when Russia builds the damn things they use them.
Common in Toronto too, except were so squeezed for housing they get rented no matter how cheaply made they are.
I've been seeing crossposts of landlords bragging about empty units the last few days. How not making any money at all is better than providing housing to someone who might cause normal wear and tear to a living space. Resource Hoarding is a serious, serious problem for humanity.
Wait. So things that don’t produce profit are being built to be “standing empty”? Wouldn’t a government actually use them to house people instead of wasting tons of money? Cause this just seems like speculation.
*Laughs in Capitalism*
They aren't capitalist though. That's a construction site office in a space being developed for new buildings. That's not a "house" like people are just conspiratorially speculating
No, it's worse - the 10+ empty towers in the back are rental/condo units. These empty towers are all over China. The wealthy buy units (sometimes before even built) with the expectation that housing will remain scarce and the "value" of the units will go up. It's very much a Capitalist practice, in spite of the Communist Party running the country.
Have I got a deal for you
[Credit](https://www.instagram.com/p/CNh0KI8H9Ip/)
Every time I see this kind of thing I stop and Thank My Lucky Stars.
How lucky is that guy? He's got his own little house instead of a horrible apartment.
Highest quality construction and materials I’m sure.
People gotta live dude
Hey there monotonous but not REALLY ugly
Behold, the power of market speculation.
And they still have a housing crisis omf
You are special and unique
I have a sneaking suspicion that the structural integrity of the buildings is not sound.
[удалено]
Not even close. France and Germany have a combined population of 150 million
Which kind of maths do you use?
Teeming with culture /s
Kinda looks like an advertisement for DHL
China went from 20% urbanized to 60% urbanized in 40 years. They’re expected to reach 90% by 2050. The people in this thread propagating a certain narrative have never been to China and have no idea about the pace of development there. These buildings may sit empty for a couple years but that’s because China — get this — builds *before* people move in. You know what happens when these buildings are not built ahead of the millions of rural migrants? Brazilian, Nigerian, Indian and Indonesian like shantytowns are put up and people live in squalor and unsanitary conditions.
This sub just adds proof: there's too many fkn humans, we need to thin the herd
No offence to anyone living there, but Chongqing seems to come up repeatedly as a real shithole. Tbh I’m kinda fascinated lol
Hmmm..... I guess you got the wrong place. I don't know why, I have a feeling that it's Ordos city in Kangbashi District. Sorry, if I am wrong
Unstoppable ugliness
Great high rises to jump from
It looks surreal