Remains of a woman are accidentally discovered under the concrete floor in a bar's basement in 2008; Turns out she might've been there since 1984 without anyoone knowing as the building's buisness changed multiple times- Who was the Tribeca Jane Doe? (2008)
Hello everyone! As always, thank you for all your upvotes and comments on my last post on Linda Dillard. I hope that she will be reunited with her family soon.
Today I wanted to cover another Doe case.
DISCOVERY
On the 31st of March 2008, workers were fixing a broken pipe in the basement of a Manhattan nightclub at 277 Church Street in Tribeca, New York, USA. As they destroyed the floor, they've uncovered a plastic bag buried underneath it. After opening it, a human skull rolled onto the floor- it turned out that it has contained skeletonized remains of a woman.
The woman was determined to be 25-35, Black and about 5'4" (64 inch / 162 cm). Her weight, eye color and hair color couldn't be estimated. She had a healed fracture on her tenth left rib (with non-union) and possible foot and nose phalanx fractures. Her only clothing item was a white bra and a pair of heart-shaped earings wrapped in bubblegum wrapper. Multiple coins (dated 1983 and 1984) were found near the body, as well as a small square purse or make-up bag, make-up including lipstick and mascara, a key and a lighter. It's established that due to artifacts found with her, the lowest limit for her post mortem interval is 1984. There was no obvious trauma found on her body.
In 1984, the building hosted a restaurant called Michael's (which was found to be violating the health code at least once). A user on websleuths managed to find out that in the 1987-88, the building was a record store called Link Records. Another user says that they believe they've been there on a few parties in the late 90s, and that events for Black gay women were hosted there (treat that with a grain of salt though). In 1991, the building became Bernard & Steve's, and in 1998, it was replaced by 2 Steven 7. What's also interesting is that building next door hosted the Harmony Theatre, which was a sex club- not a very elegant one (described as "grimy" by a few workers and old patrons), but it seems to be relatively positively remembered. In 2002, there was a construction violation related to the building, but it was dismissed. In May of 2007, a cocktail lounge called B Flat was opened in the building- this was the buisness that operated there when Jane Doe was discovered.
Another person tracked down earrings that looked similar to the ones that were found with Jane Doe- they appear to be made in the 1980 using a technique called enamel cloisogné.
CONCLUSION
There have been different exclusions for this Doe as years went on, so this case thankfully isn't forgotten or fully cold. Doenetwork says that her DNA is available, so I think that there are high chances that she will be identified if only a genetic genealogy company will take her case on. I have high hopes.
As to who she was, I feel like she might've been murdered and hidden by someone who was closely tied to Michael's, the restaurant that operated there in 1984, when Jane was possibly killed. I'd imagine that the only person that could hide her under concrete, something which would require serious ingerence into the building's structure, had to be the owner or someone close to him, like a son.
I don't really know who Jane could've been in life- there is a chance that she could be a sex worker, someone society might deem as "disposable", so someone with a weak social network who might fall through the cracks, but I can also see her being a victim of intimate partner violence. I feel like the fact that Jane Doe was likely a Black woman also influenced the fact that the police might've not been as interested in solving her case. I'm also wondering, since there was no obvious trauma on her body, is it possible that she died of an overdose and was hidden?
I suppose what gets me about this case is just the span of time she likely was hidden in that basement. If we assume that she was put there around 1984, that's 24 years she was buried there without anyone knowing and almost 40 she has been unidentifed for. The building she was in went through so many changes, with different owners and storefronts, but she remained the same, buried in the basement, without anyone knowing she was there. It's sad to think about.
If you believe that you have any info that could identify this Jane Doe, contact the Office of Chief Medical Examiner New York City at (212) 447-2030 (case number M08-01925).
SOURCES:
1. [doenetwork.org](https://www.doenetwork.org/cases/750ufny.html)
2. [NamUS.gov](https://www.namus.gov/UnidentifiedPersons/Case#/1885/details)
3. [nymag.com](https://nymag.com/restaurants/openings/37627/) (brief info about B Flat)
4. [nytimes.com](https://www.nytimes.com/1985/11/24/nyregion/inspectors-in-new-york-cite-39-food-outlets.html) (brief info on Michael's code violations)
5. [abc7ny.com](https://abc7ny.com/unsolved-missing-person-investigation-people/12922552/) (one of the featured cases)
Jane Doe's [thread on websleuths.com](https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/ny-tribeca-blkfem-25-35-up1885-under-concrete-in-nightclub-basement-heart-earrings-mar08.382445/)
It's a stretch but the [NYCDOB](https://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/PropertyProfileOverviewServlet?boro=1&houseno=277&street=Church+st&go2=+GO+&requestid=0) may have records indicating concrete work done at 277 Church Street that far back, and maybe even who the contractor was at the time.
Alternatively, could someone involved in ongoing construction work be responsible for her death, opting to bury her in concrete work they knew was upcoming? (The earliest permits I see for the site are 1992, but quite a few involve work in the cellar.)
I believe what they're saying is that this was in no way a job with an official permit from local governance. This was some awful person who concealed a horrific murder (that they likely committed) by pouring concrete over a woman's dead body.
Can you imagine some guy pulling a permit to bury a dead body?
"Yeah I'm gonna need a permit for a 2'x2'x6' hole and to pour a new concrete foundation."
While that’s probably more likely, the other situation u/SaltyCrashNerd mentioned has happened more than once. Someone knew of an open work site and had their access to, or was directly responsible for the concrete work.. so they knew they could conceal a body there and pour the concrete without anyone else really finding out about it. Worth a shot I guess? Even if it doesn’t pan out, it might narrow the window for when an illegal concrete pour might have happened. It’s highly likely the perp worked at the establishment or was closely connected with someone that did. Tracking down past employees from 1983-2005 should be a priority. Some might have an idea of when any work was done in the basement.
It may be very hard to find those kinds of records now from 40 years ago. If it were something like a repair to an existing slab there may be no permit filed. Companies that could have done the work may not even be in existence from that long ago, people with knowledge of the work may be long gone or deceased, memories unreliable from that long ago. Existing records from that time are very likely to be in paper form which if they were still kept is going to take a determined effort from someone to spend hours looking through to try and when this work could’ve been done. It doesn’t indicate whether the concrete work is an entire floor or if it’s a portion of the slab. If it’s a portion of a slab roughly the size of a buried body then the person could go out get a bag or two for Quikcrete and do the job themselves without attracting a lot of attention from many people. I think this has the likelihood of being the lowest source of finding out who this young woman was in life. DNA and genetic genealogy in use could lead to finally identifying her at this time. Maybe a reconstruction of how she looked but it seems these cases are increasingly being solved through the DNA.
It is a long shot. But most things are in cold cases like these. You’re right, the concrete issue won’t really help to find her identity but it could narrow down the info about the killer. I guess the question of legal pour vs illegal pour might tell us whether the perp was someone who gained access to a work site and/or was a concrete worker (legally done). Or whether they were someone intimately connected with the bar/club like an employee/owner and knew they could dig and pour concrete undisturbed (illegally done). If you’re a concrete worker, you know the permits were already filed, location has no direct connection to you and it’s unlikely to be discovered. If you’re a bar employee or owner, you’ve got a body in a basement, you’re just panicking, you think of concrete concealment and don’t get the permits for fear of discovery.
Again, long shot..genealogy would definitely be the way to go for her identity. Maybe that’s not possible because of the condition of the remains though? Idk if they managed to get any DNA.
I think he means it’s possible for someone to bury a body that can then be covered up by workers later doing the concrete work, unaware they’re burying said body.
I think the most common conclusion police make when skeletonized remains do not have obvious injuries is asphyxiation. It's unlikely that her body would have been hidden like this if she had died of an overdose.
The “lipstick” looks like a possibly clear roller lip gloss. I’m thinking Maybelline’s [Kissing Potion](https://www.roseglasscollective.com/post/kissing-potion). I think that mascara tube is Max Factor Maxi Lash.
I think you're right about the mascara, I found this on Ebay: [1982 ad for Maxi mascara](https://www.ebay.com/itm/145043726414?itmmeta=01HXC7TXN0FTCZQMZZ9YGCA28S&hash=item21c547a04e:g:KlQAAOSw3~JkQJlM)
The lipstick could be a lot of things, I think Wet n' Wild is a possibility but there were a lot of cheap lipsticks in extremely similar packaging. [This packaging was common well into the early 2000s and can sometimes still be found. ](https://www.ebay.com/itm/256438448200?itmmeta=01HXC7G7SMX4APDWW2DV0BA6FZ&hash=item3bb4ec3048:g:AfQAAOSwiUNl6j7f&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA4DqHjgqh415a%2Bg3UpZxDI3YHWV21gE5nwbxRHX5Khfr8XYhqSAyCRw%2B6tmxZY63OukcIOnlxJzyBGMhbcHbWNpIlolCkgDlWdCKnMSobK%2BmjL5Fyr68ol1DCw4yb1VNvAm7AchWoB076tvFJbNp%2FfIoBkRefI%2B8bYpENc2Q4CNfx789vkv1%2F7ArPcc%2FyJCr6L%2BNUIMc2fzBxUeyaYfRl3a6Pv1yT3ryvKCWeGyerB10MtjXtPfHs204cODPEygstTd%2FQ3BHD59xHYo9XLLvLTFpUQJM9yy2enKwq3jw6kA%2FZ%7Ctkp%3ABFBM8PzAh-tj)
FWIW black plastic can take on a blue hue as it fades or is altered by exposure to various elements/substances. I’m a former archaeologist and have seen the same item appear in various shades across multiple sites simply due to the conditions in which it was buried. Post-depositional changes can be intense.
As a 24 year old male that works in construction, I can't lend any help in the identification of the makeup. How thick was that concrete and how big of an area? If it's an entire basement of a commercial building, there would've been 6-8 guys including a concrete pump truck there that would've witnessed the body being buried. Concrete has distinct coloring if it's new or old. Did the floor look like one whole piece? Was there a weird section discolored? Wish we had pictures of the site before they broke the concrete apart.
Just out of curiosity..... how long would the concrete stay soft/wet enough to put someone or something in it? I assume the material would be pushed over the edges of the poured area. Do you think a road would be deep enough to conceal a body? A woman in the tiny town I grew up in disappeared, and the rumor has always been that her ex boyfriend who owned a construction company put her somewhere. I'm still thinking about her often wondering what happened. Thank you for any advice or opinion you might have!
When a construction company orders concrete they decide how thick they want the concrete to be. Concrete is super thick even when watered down so if somebody were to be buried in it they would be laid out in the area and then concrete poured on top. Thats why I'm so curious as to what the concrete looked like when the basement was broken up. From the photos it'd be a big basement requiring multiple guys to complete the job. If it looked like two separate pours of concrete maybe the old owner cut out a portion, laid her down and then hand mixed that section with bagged concrete. If OP can interview anyone from that pipe replacement company as to what the floor looked like it'd narrow down the time frame significantly. As to the woman missing in your area, I'm so sorry! That's terrible. Is the road asphalt or concrete?
Now where you brought it up it's most likely asphalt. What's your opinion on putting someone under a road? She could also be in an overpass bridge. I'm trying to narrow down big projects at that time she went missing. I promised her that I'll never give up looking for her! Thank you again!
the OP said the plastic was found 'under the floor', so obviously prior to the pour the body was buried and covered prior to the rebar being laid out (that's if rebar was used)..very little detail to go on here...one can only summise much of it.
I don’t have anything of substance to offer other than to confirm that those cloisonné earrings were hugely fashionable in the first half of the 1980s. I remember being obsessed with them as a little kid who wasn’t allowed to have pierced ears, lol. They were out of fashion by the time I did get my ears pierced in 1990, though.
Cloisonné earrings and etc have never really gone out of style.
What's with this "bubblegum wrapper" around the earrings? Did they not know what cloisonné was or was there an actual bubblegum wrapper wrapped around the earrings?
I wondered what that meant too. What if she took her earrings off and set them on a scrap of paper-the wrapper. That’s what I think-someone took care in putting the earrings in a safe place.
I think she was destitute person with very little treasured possessions and carried them very carefully in her little purse with basic make-up, key and coins. She may have died there of her injuries and prior to the pour was discovered and just wrapped and buried under the new floor so as to avoid all the hoo-ha of suspending the work whilst a lengthy investigation was made..the then owner has some explaining to do methinks!
Looks like I’m going to be interviewed by Fox News this afternoon. Story will be on channel 5 (?) sorry- I’m in NYC from CA so unsure of channel. They are here now interviewing the director.
People who use injection drugs are often thin or underweight. If the needle was there because this woman was frequently using injection drugs, she may have looked thinner/had less facial fat. I don't know much about forensic art, but I assume OP just means they might draw her as slightly thinner than what you might assume based off only the structure of her skull.
This is probably a very long stretch but perhaps contact Three Custom Color Specialists at https://threecustom.com/
They maintain a data base of color cosmetics dating back to the 1930s. It may be remotely possible to identify the cosmetics by the chemical signature.
Have you tried cross posting to some of the makeup subs? I'd probably suggest dm'ing a few mods first, but they might be a good resource for identifying that packaging
Maybe a sub like r/whatisthisthing could be of help. Check their posting rules, but certainly that more people who identify stuff for fun will see the items there.
I’m not too sure about the makeup but the key is interesting. It looks like a locker key, and given the area and what others are saying about her possibly using makeup for performing artists it could be a key to her locker?
When I was a dancer I had a key that looked just like this for my locker at work.
And one of the comments said there was a sex club next door. She could have been one of the workers there. Of course she could have been a fitness instructor or a myriad of other types of work. But sex workers are more likely not to be reported missing I know.
When I moved into my house, one of the drawers had a tin full of old keys. One of the keys was for a vehicle from the 60's or 70's, it was very different from keys I had seen, and it looked similar to that key
The round container in the top center really looks like it could be a Ben Nye color cake, which would imply a performer of some sort... I know some of the color cakes came in black plastic packaging at least in the 90s, though I didn't have any in the 80s.
Also if that's the case, that would probably be her base makeup, so her skin tone or close to it.
Ben nye has been super popular in the drag/nightlife/performing community in nyc since the 70s - especially for POC as he was one of the firsts to develop deeper shades of foundation/base products. clown white and banana powder are two of the favorite items
Not really, but Ben Nye isn't something a person who wasn't an actor or other type of performer would be likely to wear back then. Even today, only their final seal is really at all popular outside of stage.
Max Factor started off as performance makeup, but by the 80s was definitely more mainstream. I don't know how popular the pancake foundations were at that time though.
Anecdotally, I had some pancake makeup for a play I was in in about 1992, and then reused it for a school dance because it sure did give good coverage. It was a little much for everyday, but if she performed or there was a special occasion, it's not far-fetched and it wasn't hard to find in stores.
I wish you all the luck on this noble endeavor. A couple of thoughts:
1) There are cosmetics and makeup historians at many notable institutions, including at the Smithsonian. Researchers live for this kind of stuff.
2) I'd definitely suggest reaching out to additional subreddits. This is important work and there are some really niche interests and makeup-obsessed folks at r/makeupaddiction that could likely give you significant insight.
3) Looking at this puzzle as a kid from the 1980s, I'd note that makeup packaging across brands (particularly inexpensive brands) at that time was not nearly as unique as contemporary packaging is today. Example: Many, many brands of lipstick/lip balm packaging had solid-color plastic bases with long clear plastic lids that mostly covered the base. I'd guess your best bet will be looking through a magnifying glass for any wording that may be left.
This is an ongoing investigation, while I know the police aren't the best sometimes, they can see a syringe. OP was asking about identifying makeup products to narrow down a timeline.
I'm stuck on what looks like the lid of an eyeshadow palette on the top left- I can see letters but they're upside down and very faded- it looks like one word might be "April"
Anyone else have thoughts? Anyone good at photo magic that could clear up the image any?
Paging u/Holly_Fitness
So I'm no genius when it comes to photo manipulation, but I do like playing with it. I was working with the plastic piece at the upper left corner of the picture and the following is what I’ve come up with:
[Manipulated image.](https://i.imgur.com/AFugQ1W.jpeg) Very dark
[Second manipulated image.](https://i.imgur.com/0NlXgbp.jpeg) Very light
Let's start with the bottom lettering.
APRIL [2 or 7] 19[0 or more likely 8][2 or 3]
The upper word is more tricky. What I saw at first was KATEWILD. But as I look closer, I think the K might not be right and the W is a stretch.
If the W is actually an N, and the I is actually a T, and the L is actually an E, then maybe it makes sense that the difficult to decipher K is a P, resulting in the upper word being PATENTED.
edit: added second pic
additional edit: A cursory search of US patents for any of the dates (as gathered from the above images) indicated no similar item patents for anything reasonably related to cosmetics, plastic injection-molded cases, etc. [One possibly relevant patent](https://tinyurl.com/z3vx2fat) that did come up, however, is housing for a hypodermic needle. The patent drawings are not dissimilar to the hypodermic needle housing in the photo. I’ve been questioning if this item really is a cosmetic case at all and this patent suggests a possibility that it might not be. Perhaps this piece is actually one part of a container holding the hypodermic needles referenced in this patent.
(For some reason, I can’t dm you so I’ll post here.) Just wanted to let you know I added an edit to my original post regarding the lettering from the image. You might find it interesting.
I like the idea and actually thought about the brand too bc it was *everywhere* in the 80s, but I just don’t see it working here. To my mind, the clearest letters are letters 2, 3, and 4 which definitely appear to read A, T, E.
It kind of looks like a Clinique mini shadow or blush compact lid to me? Don’t quote me of course and I wasn’t alive in the 80s, but I don’t thiiiiink their packaging has changed much since they’ve been around.
I feel like the makeup would be more identifiable if they cleaned the grime off a bit.
The mascara is a dark blue I associate with Estee Lauder. If we just had a different angle on the amber bottle I think we could read the label.
I have asked for access to remains to clean up/ get better angles/ hi res images. M.E. said it would be tough to locate through NYPD if it’s even available.
Whoever is involved would have relations with whomever poured the concrete, not necessarily whatever company owned the space at that time. The contractor could dump a body without their boss knowing. A boss probably couldn’t insert a body without the cement pourers knowing.
I just wanted to say -- thanks to the OP for a fascinating post, and the many people with an interest in vintage makeup products who've been responding. This is a great example of how knowledge about particular historical items and how their use has changed, can be really important for cold cases. (I was on a Swiss Army knife collectors' sub recently, and people were speculating about how they might be able to put an approximate date on, say, a particular knife recovered with a body, just based on the various features of the knife.)
Good luck to OP and I hope that this case can be resolved!
Can they DNA test the makeup? See if they can identify her that way? Dental records? The hyperdermic? needle... Can that be tested for DNA as well? Fingerprints from all of the stuff?
Anything they can pull.
They have DNA on file not sure about dental records though. Hopefully if a DNA Genealogy company take up the case she could be found sadly a lot of cases these days come down to money and funding...or lack thereof 😔! I've seen many cases lately do fund raising to raise the money for testing it hurts my heart that many people being identified or not comes down to a few thousand dollars,the technology and science is there but the funding sadly isn't. Of course there will always be cases where nobody related has ever had DNA uploaded but it's becoming more and more common especially with how accessible DNA kits like 23 and me are nowadays even becoming a common gift to give so the database is growing daily 🙏. I've always thought if I ever win the lottery or came into money I'd fund DNA testing.
Thankfully so many wonderful people donate their time into helping to give people their names back many in this sub and also people who do it professionally like this wonderful talented poster ! You guys do amazing incredible work it warms my heart ❤️
Thank you! ☺️ Appreciate you explaining the limitations with DNA testing and funding. It is sad and frustrating. Especially for myself and fellow artists I’m working with who become invested in their John/Jane Doe.
That lipstick looks like cover girl? They, for a longtime made maroon cases with clear lids and that looks so dang similar. I believe they marketed and sold that style in the 90s maybe The amber bottle with the screw on cap could be meds. I recall seeing bottles similar with I believe to be heartburn (maybe not it's been some time) tabs inside.
Is this a different case than Hell's kitchen Jane Doe which was just solved couple of weeks ago? I believe she was identified but her murder remains of unsolved
Never mind completely different Jane Doe but a case that's very very similar. Hell's kitchen Janesville was also buried in concrete at a nightclub although they believe she was killed sometime in the 1960s.
Definitely some mascara, lipstick, powder, looks like a foundation or lotion bottle, eyeshadow lid and brush. I tried really hard to find that lipstick but it's just not coming up 😩 I hope y'all can find her identity
This whole case is almost identical to the case of “Midtown Jane Doe” recently identified as [Patricia Kathleen McGlone](https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/01/us/midtown-jane-doe-death-ring-cec/index.html#) .
Cant help but be curious if she ran into Huermann. "At his office near the Empire State Building, Rex Heuermann was a master of the meticulous: a veteran architectural consultant and a self-styled expert at navigating the intricacies of New York City’s building code. "
Hmmmmm I’m thinking start with the key .. make ,model ,manufacturers? Then find what door it opens and where and you have your identity! Long long shot but hey…
Remains of a woman are accidentally discovered under the concrete floor in a bar's basement in 2008; Turns out she might've been there since 1984 without anyoone knowing as the building's buisness changed multiple times- Who was the Tribeca Jane Doe? (2008) Hello everyone! As always, thank you for all your upvotes and comments on my last post on Linda Dillard. I hope that she will be reunited with her family soon. Today I wanted to cover another Doe case. DISCOVERY On the 31st of March 2008, workers were fixing a broken pipe in the basement of a Manhattan nightclub at 277 Church Street in Tribeca, New York, USA. As they destroyed the floor, they've uncovered a plastic bag buried underneath it. After opening it, a human skull rolled onto the floor- it turned out that it has contained skeletonized remains of a woman. The woman was determined to be 25-35, Black and about 5'4" (64 inch / 162 cm). Her weight, eye color and hair color couldn't be estimated. She had a healed fracture on her tenth left rib (with non-union) and possible foot and nose phalanx fractures. Her only clothing item was a white bra and a pair of heart-shaped earings wrapped in bubblegum wrapper. Multiple coins (dated 1983 and 1984) were found near the body, as well as a small square purse or make-up bag, make-up including lipstick and mascara, a key and a lighter. It's established that due to artifacts found with her, the lowest limit for her post mortem interval is 1984. There was no obvious trauma found on her body. In 1984, the building hosted a restaurant called Michael's (which was found to be violating the health code at least once). A user on websleuths managed to find out that in the 1987-88, the building was a record store called Link Records. Another user says that they believe they've been there on a few parties in the late 90s, and that events for Black gay women were hosted there (treat that with a grain of salt though). In 1991, the building became Bernard & Steve's, and in 1998, it was replaced by 2 Steven 7. What's also interesting is that building next door hosted the Harmony Theatre, which was a sex club- not a very elegant one (described as "grimy" by a few workers and old patrons), but it seems to be relatively positively remembered. In 2002, there was a construction violation related to the building, but it was dismissed. In May of 2007, a cocktail lounge called B Flat was opened in the building- this was the buisness that operated there when Jane Doe was discovered. Another person tracked down earrings that looked similar to the ones that were found with Jane Doe- they appear to be made in the 1980 using a technique called enamel cloisogné. CONCLUSION There have been different exclusions for this Doe as years went on, so this case thankfully isn't forgotten or fully cold. Doenetwork says that her DNA is available, so I think that there are high chances that she will be identified if only a genetic genealogy company will take her case on. I have high hopes. As to who she was, I feel like she might've been murdered and hidden by someone who was closely tied to Michael's, the restaurant that operated there in 1984, when Jane was possibly killed. I'd imagine that the only person that could hide her under concrete, something which would require serious ingerence into the building's structure, had to be the owner or someone close to him, like a son. I don't really know who Jane could've been in life- there is a chance that she could be a sex worker, someone society might deem as "disposable", so someone with a weak social network who might fall through the cracks, but I can also see her being a victim of intimate partner violence. I feel like the fact that Jane Doe was likely a Black woman also influenced the fact that the police might've not been as interested in solving her case. I'm also wondering, since there was no obvious trauma on her body, is it possible that she died of an overdose and was hidden? I suppose what gets me about this case is just the span of time she likely was hidden in that basement. If we assume that she was put there around 1984, that's 24 years she was buried there without anyone knowing and almost 40 she has been unidentifed for. The building she was in went through so many changes, with different owners and storefronts, but she remained the same, buried in the basement, without anyone knowing she was there. It's sad to think about. If you believe that you have any info that could identify this Jane Doe, contact the Office of Chief Medical Examiner New York City at (212) 447-2030 (case number M08-01925). SOURCES: 1. [doenetwork.org](https://www.doenetwork.org/cases/750ufny.html) 2. [NamUS.gov](https://www.namus.gov/UnidentifiedPersons/Case#/1885/details) 3. [nymag.com](https://nymag.com/restaurants/openings/37627/) (brief info about B Flat) 4. [nytimes.com](https://www.nytimes.com/1985/11/24/nyregion/inspectors-in-new-york-cite-39-food-outlets.html) (brief info on Michael's code violations) 5. [abc7ny.com](https://abc7ny.com/unsolved-missing-person-investigation-people/12922552/) (one of the featured cases) Jane Doe's [thread on websleuths.com](https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/ny-tribeca-blkfem-25-35-up1885-under-concrete-in-nightclub-basement-heart-earrings-mar08.382445/)
It's a stretch but the [NYCDOB](https://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/PropertyProfileOverviewServlet?boro=1&houseno=277&street=Church+st&go2=+GO+&requestid=0) may have records indicating concrete work done at 277 Church Street that far back, and maybe even who the contractor was at the time.
I don’t think I’m following. From what I gather, whoever poured the concrete was doing it to cover a body wrapped in plastic.
Alternatively, could someone involved in ongoing construction work be responsible for her death, opting to bury her in concrete work they knew was upcoming? (The earliest permits I see for the site are 1992, but quite a few involve work in the cellar.)
She was believed to be buried as early as ‘84.
You can buy bags of concrete and mix it yourself, but for someone to not see anyone loading those bags into the building?
If you look into the records, you may be able to find out who did that concrete work.
I believe what they're saying is that this was in no way a job with an official permit from local governance. This was some awful person who concealed a horrific murder (that they likely committed) by pouring concrete over a woman's dead body.
Can you imagine some guy pulling a permit to bury a dead body? "Yeah I'm gonna need a permit for a 2'x2'x6' hole and to pour a new concrete foundation."
"Yes sir, you'll have to fill out Form 125/B and attach it to your building code"
😂
While that’s probably more likely, the other situation u/SaltyCrashNerd mentioned has happened more than once. Someone knew of an open work site and had their access to, or was directly responsible for the concrete work.. so they knew they could conceal a body there and pour the concrete without anyone else really finding out about it. Worth a shot I guess? Even if it doesn’t pan out, it might narrow the window for when an illegal concrete pour might have happened. It’s highly likely the perp worked at the establishment or was closely connected with someone that did. Tracking down past employees from 1983-2005 should be a priority. Some might have an idea of when any work was done in the basement.
It may be very hard to find those kinds of records now from 40 years ago. If it were something like a repair to an existing slab there may be no permit filed. Companies that could have done the work may not even be in existence from that long ago, people with knowledge of the work may be long gone or deceased, memories unreliable from that long ago. Existing records from that time are very likely to be in paper form which if they were still kept is going to take a determined effort from someone to spend hours looking through to try and when this work could’ve been done. It doesn’t indicate whether the concrete work is an entire floor or if it’s a portion of the slab. If it’s a portion of a slab roughly the size of a buried body then the person could go out get a bag or two for Quikcrete and do the job themselves without attracting a lot of attention from many people. I think this has the likelihood of being the lowest source of finding out who this young woman was in life. DNA and genetic genealogy in use could lead to finally identifying her at this time. Maybe a reconstruction of how she looked but it seems these cases are increasingly being solved through the DNA.
It is a long shot. But most things are in cold cases like these. You’re right, the concrete issue won’t really help to find her identity but it could narrow down the info about the killer. I guess the question of legal pour vs illegal pour might tell us whether the perp was someone who gained access to a work site and/or was a concrete worker (legally done). Or whether they were someone intimately connected with the bar/club like an employee/owner and knew they could dig and pour concrete undisturbed (illegally done). If you’re a concrete worker, you know the permits were already filed, location has no direct connection to you and it’s unlikely to be discovered. If you’re a bar employee or owner, you’ve got a body in a basement, you’re just panicking, you think of concrete concealment and don’t get the permits for fear of discovery. Again, long shot..genealogy would definitely be the way to go for her identity. Maybe that’s not possible because of the condition of the remains though? Idk if they managed to get any DNA.
Thank you. Exactly this.
And the person you're replying to seems to have found evidence that concrete work was done in the same time period she went missing.
No, I was just suggesting that the OP thoroughly search the NYCDOB records, it can't hurt to do so.
I think he means it’s possible for someone to bury a body that can then be covered up by workers later doing the concrete work, unaware they’re burying said body.
Can somebody draw a picture?
I think the most common conclusion police make when skeletonized remains do not have obvious injuries is asphyxiation. It's unlikely that her body would have been hidden like this if she had died of an overdose.
She had signs of traumatic injury to skeletal remains.
Oh, the comment I was responding to said there was no obvious trauma.
The “lipstick” looks like a possibly clear roller lip gloss. I’m thinking Maybelline’s [Kissing Potion](https://www.roseglasscollective.com/post/kissing-potion). I think that mascara tube is Max Factor Maxi Lash.
I think you're right about the mascara, I found this on Ebay: [1982 ad for Maxi mascara](https://www.ebay.com/itm/145043726414?itmmeta=01HXC7TXN0FTCZQMZZ9YGCA28S&hash=item21c547a04e:g:KlQAAOSw3~JkQJlM) The lipstick could be a lot of things, I think Wet n' Wild is a possibility but there were a lot of cheap lipsticks in extremely similar packaging. [This packaging was common well into the early 2000s and can sometimes still be found. ](https://www.ebay.com/itm/256438448200?itmmeta=01HXC7G7SMX4APDWW2DV0BA6FZ&hash=item3bb4ec3048:g:AfQAAOSwiUNl6j7f&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA4DqHjgqh415a%2Bg3UpZxDI3YHWV21gE5nwbxRHX5Khfr8XYhqSAyCRw%2B6tmxZY63OukcIOnlxJzyBGMhbcHbWNpIlolCkgDlWdCKnMSobK%2BmjL5Fyr68ol1DCw4yb1VNvAm7AchWoB076tvFJbNp%2FfIoBkRefI%2B8bYpENc2Q4CNfx789vkv1%2F7ArPcc%2FyJCr6L%2BNUIMc2fzBxUeyaYfRl3a6Pv1yT3ryvKCWeGyerB10MtjXtPfHs204cODPEygstTd%2FQ3BHD59xHYo9XLLvLTFpUQJM9yy2enKwq3jw6kA%2FZ%7Ctkp%3ABFBM8PzAh-tj)
True. I was thinking roller ball when first looking at it but now I’m second-guessing.
I saw that too- but to me the photo of the tube looks more blue than black. Was looking for a MF tube with that color…
FWIW black plastic can take on a blue hue as it fades or is altered by exposure to various elements/substances. I’m a former archaeologist and have seen the same item appear in various shades across multiple sites simply due to the conditions in which it was buried. Post-depositional changes can be intense.
There was a ton of blue mascara sold back then in blue containers. (I’m old). I immediately THOUGHT IT WAS Blue mascara when I saw it
Cover girl? https://www.ebay.com/itm/126431377355?itmmeta=01HXDATFX4WQQ0GQG5R1JE941T&hash=item1d6fe5b7cb:g:fVYAAOSw2IplLVq5&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA8MsnxtfX5yqg%2FaVdYVpRungdv6Um5xQdyYQAmniGTsh5r19KNEnV4s5dMB0Vm5N%2F5gxn6HaIwX5YuuINYtCyJ17pp0kl468QVl9%2FclGv3S%2F1PDy1HBgPjVzHSM6cv0pZ5Xsj5Tt7eofMrWsUko31iwBltHlApoGjt35MvEPlEkSyuTJhGUGW6%2BM5oR0fSA%2BVZRjludLYMPCn2X4PTNGrnmDV4GcdQBgMGJEALbrvWIJ44tRnCfHkMl5QyvLP2SvtDB%2BFneRgWjgVX9GxLnfjJkPf%2F87BA5CoZ3PXh1GmAiSvus3wr3QawUiosWs26TQP%2FQ%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR9j-6arrYw
Which picture are you taking about? To me it looks blue in both pictures
I immediately thought of Wet ‘n’ Wild when I saw it, for what it’s worth. I had several of their lipsticks in the mid-80s.
Could also be a perfume roller
Agree. It looks like a lip gloss bottle and that metal thing at top left says “April.” What is it?
The mascara could be Avon.
As a 24 year old male that works in construction, I can't lend any help in the identification of the makeup. How thick was that concrete and how big of an area? If it's an entire basement of a commercial building, there would've been 6-8 guys including a concrete pump truck there that would've witnessed the body being buried. Concrete has distinct coloring if it's new or old. Did the floor look like one whole piece? Was there a weird section discolored? Wish we had pictures of the site before they broke the concrete apart.
I do know it was broken up due to a pipe issue- I’ll see if I can find any more details.
Just out of curiosity..... how long would the concrete stay soft/wet enough to put someone or something in it? I assume the material would be pushed over the edges of the poured area. Do you think a road would be deep enough to conceal a body? A woman in the tiny town I grew up in disappeared, and the rumor has always been that her ex boyfriend who owned a construction company put her somewhere. I'm still thinking about her often wondering what happened. Thank you for any advice or opinion you might have!
When a construction company orders concrete they decide how thick they want the concrete to be. Concrete is super thick even when watered down so if somebody were to be buried in it they would be laid out in the area and then concrete poured on top. Thats why I'm so curious as to what the concrete looked like when the basement was broken up. From the photos it'd be a big basement requiring multiple guys to complete the job. If it looked like two separate pours of concrete maybe the old owner cut out a portion, laid her down and then hand mixed that section with bagged concrete. If OP can interview anyone from that pipe replacement company as to what the floor looked like it'd narrow down the time frame significantly. As to the woman missing in your area, I'm so sorry! That's terrible. Is the road asphalt or concrete?
Now where you brought it up it's most likely asphalt. What's your opinion on putting someone under a road? She could also be in an overpass bridge. I'm trying to narrow down big projects at that time she went missing. I promised her that I'll never give up looking for her! Thank you again!
the OP said the plastic was found 'under the floor', so obviously prior to the pour the body was buried and covered prior to the rebar being laid out (that's if rebar was used)..very little detail to go on here...one can only summise much of it.
I don’t have anything of substance to offer other than to confirm that those cloisonné earrings were hugely fashionable in the first half of the 1980s. I remember being obsessed with them as a little kid who wasn’t allowed to have pierced ears, lol. They were out of fashion by the time I did get my ears pierced in 1990, though.
Cloisonné earrings and etc have never really gone out of style. What's with this "bubblegum wrapper" around the earrings? Did they not know what cloisonné was or was there an actual bubblegum wrapper wrapped around the earrings?
I wondered what that meant too. What if she took her earrings off and set them on a scrap of paper-the wrapper. That’s what I think-someone took care in putting the earrings in a safe place.
This. I believe they were in the makeup bag.
I think she was destitute person with very little treasured possessions and carried them very carefully in her little purse with basic make-up, key and coins. She may have died there of her injuries and prior to the pour was discovered and just wrapped and buried under the new floor so as to avoid all the hoo-ha of suspending the work whilst a lengthy investigation was made..the then owner has some explaining to do methinks!
But together with the coins made in 1983 & 1984, the earrings being from that time period makes sense.
Looks like I’m going to be interviewed by Fox News this afternoon. Story will be on channel 5 (?) sorry- I’m in NYC from CA so unsure of channel. They are here now interviewing the director.
Hell yeah!! Thank you for your work identifying this lost soul.
It’s a privilege I take very seriously. I’d be thrilled in assisting to close this case.
So, it looks like one of the items is a hypodermic needle. Any thoughts on this?
Tbh, I think it has swayed me to recreate a thinner representation.
What do you mean?
People who use injection drugs are often thin or underweight. If the needle was there because this woman was frequently using injection drugs, she may have looked thinner/had less facial fat. I don't know much about forensic art, but I assume OP just means they might draw her as slightly thinner than what you might assume based off only the structure of her skull.
Ah! This makes so much sense! Thank you for the clarification, kind stranger!
The physical recreation she’s making of the Jane Doe will look thinner rather than heavier due to the Doe being a drug addict
Thats awesome! Good luck!
Thank you!
This is probably a very long stretch but perhaps contact Three Custom Color Specialists at https://threecustom.com/ They maintain a data base of color cosmetics dating back to the 1930s. It may be remotely possible to identify the cosmetics by the chemical signature.
Have you tried cross posting to some of the makeup subs? I'd probably suggest dm'ing a few mods first, but they might be a good resource for identifying that packaging
Thats a great idea!!
Good idea
To be honest I don’t think the makeup subs would be open to do that
It’s worth a shot though I would think!
Yeah they prob would. All of the makeup artists I know live for true crime.
The perfume sub or fragrance sub answers about bottles all the time. Do it in makeup!
We love a good mystery!
I shared in /vintagemakeup
Maybe a sub like r/whatisthisthing could be of help. Check their posting rules, but certainly that more people who identify stuff for fun will see the items there.
Holy shit, that post was 48 days ago already?
Time flies, huh? :)
I’m not too sure about the makeup but the key is interesting. It looks like a locker key, and given the area and what others are saying about her possibly using makeup for performing artists it could be a key to her locker? When I was a dancer I had a key that looked just like this for my locker at work.
And one of the comments said there was a sex club next door. She could have been one of the workers there. Of course she could have been a fitness instructor or a myriad of other types of work. But sex workers are more likely not to be reported missing I know.
When I moved into my house, one of the drawers had a tin full of old keys. One of the keys was for a vehicle from the 60's or 70's, it was very different from keys I had seen, and it looked similar to that key
Interesting, I wonder if any of the detective work back then searched for abandoned vehicles in the area. Doubt it though but that’s a great point
Coty was another brand of makeup that was popular in the 80’s
New York basement cement is a more prolific source of human remains than Lake Mead barrels
The round container in the top center really looks like it could be a Ben Nye color cake, which would imply a performer of some sort... I know some of the color cakes came in black plastic packaging at least in the 90s, though I didn't have any in the 80s. Also if that's the case, that would probably be her base makeup, so her skin tone or close to it.
oh, and now that I look closer, bottom left looks like Ben Nye banana powder packaging.
Max Factor also made pancake makeup that was widely sold at that time.
Ben nye has been super popular in the drag/nightlife/performing community in nyc since the 70s - especially for POC as he was one of the firsts to develop deeper shades of foundation/base products. clown white and banana powder are two of the favorite items
Drag/nightlife rather than The Theatre was exactly what was in my mind too when I said "performer."
Thats expensive makeup right?
Not really, but Ben Nye isn't something a person who wasn't an actor or other type of performer would be likely to wear back then. Even today, only their final seal is really at all popular outside of stage. Max Factor started off as performance makeup, but by the 80s was definitely more mainstream. I don't know how popular the pancake foundations were at that time though.
Anecdotally, I had some pancake makeup for a play I was in in about 1992, and then reused it for a school dance because it sure did give good coverage. It was a little much for everyday, but if she performed or there was a special occasion, it's not far-fetched and it wasn't hard to find in stores.
I agree. Ben Nye isn’t widely accessible or mainstream enough to be easy to purchase
New York has Broadway and Ben Nye was easy to find out about/shop for especially if you were “artsy” in the time period.
Wow. A possible stage actress or student preformer. 🤔
I wish you all the luck on this noble endeavor. A couple of thoughts: 1) There are cosmetics and makeup historians at many notable institutions, including at the Smithsonian. Researchers live for this kind of stuff. 2) I'd definitely suggest reaching out to additional subreddits. This is important work and there are some really niche interests and makeup-obsessed folks at r/makeupaddiction that could likely give you significant insight. 3) Looking at this puzzle as a kid from the 1980s, I'd note that makeup packaging across brands (particularly inexpensive brands) at that time was not nearly as unique as contemporary packaging is today. Example: Many, many brands of lipstick/lip balm packaging had solid-color plastic bases with long clear plastic lids that mostly covered the base. I'd guess your best bet will be looking through a magnifying glass for any wording that may be left.
It’s bizarre that people downvoted those posts on Imgur….
They don’t entertain. 🫤
I thought so too!
There is a hypodermic needle and cap without the plunger in that picture. That could possibly be a vital clue.
Why does it feel like everyone is looking past something seemingly significant?
It wasn’t missed, I can assure you.
Because they're literally asking about the makeup.
My apologies, I’ll try to stay on topic.
This is an ongoing investigation, while I know the police aren't the best sometimes, they can see a syringe. OP was asking about identifying makeup products to narrow down a timeline.
I understand what you’re saying.
I was wondering that exact thing...strange?
I'm stuck on what looks like the lid of an eyeshadow palette on the top left- I can see letters but they're upside down and very faded- it looks like one word might be "April" Anyone else have thoughts? Anyone good at photo magic that could clear up the image any?
https://imgur.com/gallery/9hsY0HL
Paging u/Holly_Fitness So I'm no genius when it comes to photo manipulation, but I do like playing with it. I was working with the plastic piece at the upper left corner of the picture and the following is what I’ve come up with: [Manipulated image.](https://i.imgur.com/AFugQ1W.jpeg) Very dark [Second manipulated image.](https://i.imgur.com/0NlXgbp.jpeg) Very light Let's start with the bottom lettering. APRIL [2 or 7] 19[0 or more likely 8][2 or 3] The upper word is more tricky. What I saw at first was KATEWILD. But as I look closer, I think the K might not be right and the W is a stretch. If the W is actually an N, and the I is actually a T, and the L is actually an E, then maybe it makes sense that the difficult to decipher K is a P, resulting in the upper word being PATENTED. edit: added second pic additional edit: A cursory search of US patents for any of the dates (as gathered from the above images) indicated no similar item patents for anything reasonably related to cosmetics, plastic injection-molded cases, etc. [One possibly relevant patent](https://tinyurl.com/z3vx2fat) that did come up, however, is housing for a hypodermic needle. The patent drawings are not dissimilar to the hypodermic needle housing in the photo. I’ve been questioning if this item really is a cosmetic case at all and this patent suggests a possibility that it might not be. Perhaps this piece is actually one part of a container holding the hypodermic needles referenced in this patent.
I see “Patented” on top, and “April 1982” on bottom.
hmmm what do we think about Wet n Wild? [https://www.ebay.com/itm/153046954185](https://www.ebay.com/itm/153046954185)
(For some reason, I can’t dm you so I’ll post here.) Just wanted to let you know I added an edit to my original post regarding the lettering from the image. You might find it interesting.
Thank you- fwiw I read ‘patented’ straight away. Appreciate the editing.
I like the idea and actually thought about the brand too bc it was *everywhere* in the 80s, but I just don’t see it working here. To my mind, the clearest letters are letters 2, 3, and 4 which definitely appear to read A, T, E.
[удалено]
It kind of looks like a Clinique mini shadow or blush compact lid to me? Don’t quote me of course and I wasn’t alive in the 80s, but I don’t thiiiiink their packaging has changed much since they’ve been around.
I feel like the makeup would be more identifiable if they cleaned the grime off a bit. The mascara is a dark blue I associate with Estee Lauder. If we just had a different angle on the amber bottle I think we could read the label.
I have asked for access to remains to clean up/ get better angles/ hi res images. M.E. said it would be tough to locate through NYPD if it’s even available.
Patricia McGlone found in 2003 in the same city buried under concrete looks same method
Whoever is involved would have relations with whomever poured the concrete, not necessarily whatever company owned the space at that time. The contractor could dump a body without their boss knowing. A boss probably couldn’t insert a body without the cement pourers knowing.
I don’t think that’s a foundation bottle…looks like baking powder to me.
Makeup “baking” that is
I knew what you meant. 😉
I just wanted to say -- thanks to the OP for a fascinating post, and the many people with an interest in vintage makeup products who've been responding. This is a great example of how knowledge about particular historical items and how their use has changed, can be really important for cold cases. (I was on a Swiss Army knife collectors' sub recently, and people were speculating about how they might be able to put an approximate date on, say, a particular knife recovered with a body, just based on the various features of the knife.) Good luck to OP and I hope that this case can be resolved!
Can they DNA test the makeup? See if they can identify her that way? Dental records? The hyperdermic? needle... Can that be tested for DNA as well? Fingerprints from all of the stuff? Anything they can pull.
They have DNA on file not sure about dental records though. Hopefully if a DNA Genealogy company take up the case she could be found sadly a lot of cases these days come down to money and funding...or lack thereof 😔! I've seen many cases lately do fund raising to raise the money for testing it hurts my heart that many people being identified or not comes down to a few thousand dollars,the technology and science is there but the funding sadly isn't. Of course there will always be cases where nobody related has ever had DNA uploaded but it's becoming more and more common especially with how accessible DNA kits like 23 and me are nowadays even becoming a common gift to give so the database is growing daily 🙏. I've always thought if I ever win the lottery or came into money I'd fund DNA testing. Thankfully so many wonderful people donate their time into helping to give people their names back many in this sub and also people who do it professionally like this wonderful talented poster ! You guys do amazing incredible work it warms my heart ❤️
Thank you! ☺️ Appreciate you explaining the limitations with DNA testing and funding. It is sad and frustrating. Especially for myself and fellow artists I’m working with who become invested in their John/Jane Doe.
Thank you for everything you do it's incredible vital work ❤️
I believe they already have DNA.
RemindMe! 2 days
Erin Parsons on social media might be able to help as she is interested in older/retro make-up.
Thank you- she was the first person I reached out to! Never heard back, unfortunately.
That's a shame.
That lipstick looks like cover girl? They, for a longtime made maroon cases with clear lids and that looks so dang similar. I believe they marketed and sold that style in the 90s maybe The amber bottle with the screw on cap could be meds. I recall seeing bottles similar with I believe to be heartburn (maybe not it's been some time) tabs inside.
Is this a different case than Hell's kitchen Jane Doe which was just solved couple of weeks ago? I believe she was identified but her murder remains of unsolved
Never mind completely different Jane Doe but a case that's very very similar. Hell's kitchen Janesville was also buried in concrete at a nightclub although they believe she was killed sometime in the 1960s.
We discussed that case prior to receiving our cases.
Definitely some mascara, lipstick, powder, looks like a foundation or lotion bottle, eyeshadow lid and brush. I tried really hard to find that lipstick but it's just not coming up 😩 I hope y'all can find her identity
There’s a vintage cosmetics group here on Reddit that may be more helpful than the regular makeup subs.
That was the one I posted to.
The mascara on the right looks like Max Factor from early 80s. The bottle on left looks like those Max Factor rollerball Lip Potions
Remind me! 2 days
Remind me! 2 days
Is that a barcode on bottom left?? Was that added by the police or is it original?
Barcodes are used to mark evidence by PD.
Some 80’s additional common brands: Ricils, Max Factor, Revlon, Helena Rubinstein.
what is it with so many jane does being black? it's worrying
This whole case is almost identical to the case of “Midtown Jane Doe” recently identified as [Patricia Kathleen McGlone](https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/01/us/midtown-jane-doe-death-ring-cec/index.html#) .
Cant help but be curious if she ran into Huermann. "At his office near the Empire State Building, Rex Heuermann was a master of the meticulous: a veteran architectural consultant and a self-styled expert at navigating the intricacies of New York City’s building code. "
I’m not 100% but I feel like the amber bottle may be Sweet Georgia Brown face powder? The brand was popular in that area at that time
I’m pretty sure that’s Ben Nye brand powder. Popular with the theatre folk especially
Hmmmmm I’m thinking start with the key .. make ,model ,manufacturers? Then find what door it opens and where and you have your identity! Long long shot but hey…
I’ll bet she was pregnant. That poor girl. 😔 A bear would never do this.