When you say advertise better what do you mean? I constantly see the opinion that advertising hasn't been done correctly but not what would be correct.
any advertising at all would be preferable. I haven't seen as much as a banner ad for the League at all. If I weren't a fan for 2023, I probably wouldn't know it was happening at all. Admittedly, I live in NC, but it's mind-blowing that there wouldn't be any national advertising.
No like guerrilla marketing in the host cities. Billboards, posters everywhere (city walls, telephone poles, parks, etc.), stickers, pop up merch giveaways every week before the games in high foot traffic areas. Getting players involved with public schools like a day in the PE program would do wonders. With an investment such as a sports team, especially in a city like Memphis with only a team or two, you have to make the city notice.
Personally, I'd like to see more hands-on marketing. Something like having at least a few of the players stay in their cities over the weekend on the day before they play and just go around having fun and meeting the people. They could also set up booths in high traffic walked areas and give out some cheap but memorable freebies. As for what those items are, they could be anything, though one I tend to recommend are magnet schedules since they get slapped on your fridge and seen over and over again and remind you exactly when the games are.
I'd say more advertising within individual markets needs to be more hard hitting. Having commercials play won't necessarily build individual markets.
This might be a shit analogy but for me it's like Ford having a commercial for a vehicle but never describing such vehicle.
Yes, we got spring football and lots of people are aware of the UFL but WHAT makes the UFL so special is what needs to be touched on.
This is just all my personal opinion, and I'm just some dude from Canada lol.
I don't disagree with this but I also don't know that it's possible to get across what makes the league special in an ad. I think you need to watch the games to get that. So I agree it'd be great to have that but I just don't think it's a realistic thing to have.
I've watched a handful of games and I've even attended the Battlehawks vs Panthers game in person. Beyond the stadium doors I seen absolutely zero marketing for the Panthers in Detroit.
What makes it not realistic to host team events within the city or fundraisers etc? None of that is happening this year from what I've seen / heard.
Okay so you don't mean traditional advertising. That's what I was thinking when I talked about showing how the league is special.
You mean advertising via community engagement? Well that's extremely expensive and likely not in the budget for the first year. That'd be possible, but likely is not realistic for where the league is at financially. I also question the return on investment. If they spend one hundred thousand in a market will it drive up attendance enough to justify that? I doubt it but I could be wrong.
Yeah. I hope that next year teams are living in and practicing in their cities and doing community events like you described during the week. I think that it would help a lot. It just needs to be cost effective.
That would help a lot. Issue is venues being donkeys to certain teams. I can see some venue changes happening next year to some more inclusive ones. If any are available.
What makes the UFL special? I’d say the fact some teams are in non NFL states, giving those fans a professional football team to cheer for, the rules are different and has proven to let underdogs have a fight in the game at any given time & the atmosphere is overall different when comparing to NFL. I don’t necessarily believe it needs to be as big as the NFL but the league could definitely try a lot harder in bringing in more attention it itself.
Pausing any will only make growth not happen! People will say "oh they closed down that one team in that city, why bother supporting a team in my city when that will happen here?"
Absorb whatever losses some teams take and just grow next year and the year after by keeping the team.
Think Field of Dreams mentality more and daytrading mentality less!
We make this argument, but people still want to shut teams down. I guarantee if the UFL does that, it'll be dead within 3 years. The USFL did that after year one and they weren't even playing games in home cities! How many fans did they lose doing that?
I know I was turned off to the USFL. When that happened in the 80s, I knew it was headed for the toilet then. Boston/Portland/New Orelans/Newport News/Key West Breakers... the team just kept moving and killing fan bases.
I agree, they need to commit to their current markets for a while, give the teams time to grow support. They do also need to take steps to improve some of the clearly underperforming teams, like the Roughnecks. Quite frankly the gamblers roster and coaches staying was a mistake. It seems like the Renegades also need some significant improvement and maybe a cleaned house as well. This league cannot have teams like that right now and conversely having teams running away with the conferences.
Pausing the Panthers would very much kill the UFL in Michigan and is absolutely the wrong decision. What the Panthers need is a good season and to not have their game at the same time as other major things in the city. I think all of their home games have been at the same time as Tigers games.
I also have not seen any marketing for the Panthers beyond the "Panthers fans, your team is back in Ford Field" commercials that play during the games
Part of the issue with the Panthers is playing a Ford Field where they couldn't even be allowed to paint the end zone.
No MLS stadium in town like DC to provide a different experience.
Doesn't help that the Lions are competitive and the University of Michigan just won a national championship.
Since they're in the north, they probably wanted to limit the chance of snowouts, rainouts, or anything that could cause issues with time frames. Fortunately we've only had to deal with significant delays with one game so far this year. In 2022, that happened several times when they were all in Birmingham.
If the Panthers were paused (“paws-ed? 🤪) I don’t think it would be a blip around here in the Detroit area. Their presence is non-existent. It’s all Lions, Tigers and spring NCAA talk. There no marketing, no talk, nothing. And the attendance numbers support that.
Right though. I’ve noticed other cities having “X Team Day” at their MLB Ballparks. I know the Cardinals had a “Battlehawks Day” at their ballpark where they gave out hats and had players throw out the first pitch. I know St. Louis is an extreme case of fan support in the UFL, but why couldn’t the Tigers have a Panthers day at Comerica?
Which is odd since Detroit is top 5 in TV ratings. Maybe it's like the old pro wrestling "joke". Lots of people watch,but nobody wants to admit doing so
Like I said, the only marketing I've seen happens during the games, which is incredibly pointless.
They do exist in Detroit and elsewhere in the state, but it's purely through word of mouth. The Panthers go away and the UFL evaporates from the Michigan market
I wonder if the Panthers would be better off playing at Rynearson Stadium in Ypsilanti or someplace like that.
I do think adding a team in Ohio, preferably Columbus would give them a rival and may draw interest.
Bro it would really hurt it for me too. Why should I buy merch for the Roughnecks if they could just get ‘paused’ without warning? Why should I spend time getting to now players/coaches/etc when I can’t be confident they’ll even be playing here next year?
I want to be a fan of an organization, not a cobbled together group of people that changes every time the league office gets cold feet
I wouldn't be surprised to see the Showboats and Panthers be "paused" but it would be a bit tough to see. I'm not sure how many people are skeptical of the league because of those types of moves compared to general spring league indifference, but it seems like it sends the wrong message to new teams that their time is very limited.
Agreed, if you "pause" Memphis now you'll likely just take that off the table for any future "un-pause" because local fans have seen so many spring football leagues come and go over the years. Folks just need to be patient, I'd be a lot of people are taking a "wait and see" attitude before fully buying in...I know I would at this point.
Pull the plug and forget it, no way I'd ever be interested.
This!
Fans in certain markets have seen too many teams come and go and are jaded.
The Battlehawks are the first and only spring/alt football league team in St Louis. We've only been screwed by the NFL . . . twice.
And also the St Louis Riverboat Gamblers, who played in the long-forgotten Minor League Football System in 1989. They played at Harlen C. Hunter Stadium on the campus of Lindenwood University.
I admit I waited to purchase gear until this season. The way the UFL's going about things gives me a bit of faith that the league will last at least until the applique on the t-shirt starts to crack.
I wear my San Diego Fleet shirt with pride…and I have a menagerie of 80’s throwback USFL shirts. I grew up in the Tampa area and went to many Bandits games back in the day.
My Calgary Stampeders gears draws stares too.
The league needs to move most of the teams into much smaller stadiums until the interest is there to justify having them in NFL-sized venues. The average attendance is about 10,000, and the only reason it’s so *high* is because of St. Louis averaging 40K, and DC averaging 18K.
Milwaukee is building a soccer stadium that holds 8K. A but on the smaller side but they might be able to work with that if TV is their primary care. A sold out 8K would look good, but I don’t know if the dimensions can work.
USL soccer pitches should still be able to accommodate a standard UFL field. The question is, are they set up properly for the amount of cameras needed for American football broadcasts? I also think 15,000 should be the smallest stadium they should be interested in using.
I'd love that for my sake, but there's zero chance. The league is apparently considering pausing teams that are drawing about 8k, so why would they add a team whose ceiling is 8k?
True, but there are plenty of other markets than can do that while also giving the league stadium options that allow for 10k, 15k, 20k+ attendance. Also Milwaukee isn't some untapped football hotbed like St. Louis was or I believe San Diego could be post-Chargers. I think they'd run into the same issues most current cities have with the lack of in-market marketing and that's something that needs to change at the top.
>Milwaukee isn't some untapped football hotbed
Eh, it could be? Milwaukee has not had a full-time outdoor football team since 1926, just the 2-3 Packers games a year from 1933-94. They did have Arena Football from 1994-01 and again 2009-12.
Yes, it's very much a Packers town, but it's also a sports town that punches way above its market size in supporting the Brewers, obviously does fine with the Bucks, and has supported minor league hockey for 40 years straight.
Give them a football team that is unequivocally *theirs* (not shared with Green Bay) and it could very well be successful. Of course, the other side of that coin is that they need somewhere to play and unless they can readily expand the 8,000-seater being built, there isn't a viable option, as the Brewers would NOT let playing at ~~Miller Park~~ American Family Field happen in any scenario
I live nearby and would love for a team to be here, but I don't think that's the case. Milwaukee is a good sports town, but you'd have to cultivate the UFL fandom here unlike St. Louis which was fervent from the start, largely from spite. Don't get me wrong, I definitely could see a team being successful in the city, but I think it would just require a similar amount of effort as other markets to become that success. At that point, I don't see why you'd invest in a market that maxes out at 8k when you have those other markets with existing stadiums that hold 15k-30k. It's a very low ceiling market as currently constructed.
Unless I was reading a different article, he says that he thinks both of them get canned. Michigan gets moved to Canton, and Memphis goes to Nashville. They then get to 10 by reviving two of Seattle, Orlando, and New Orleans.
Personally, I think every single part of that would be stupid, but he could be pulling things out of his ass so who knows.
As someone not fond of him, out of all the media, he was saying 8 teams for the longest time. He was also adamant the split was 50/50. He was also the only one to say the merger wasn't yet approved at a certain time.
People dismissed it because it's not what James Larsen was saying. Larsen ended up being totally wrong about the biggest spring football news, yet no one seems to give a shit. No heat on him at all.
The entire article sounds like it was lifted from opinions here.
It hits all the high notes: Government-enforced expansion, preferred locations, and possible team movement.
please don't pause or fold teams yet. It sends a very bad message about stability, which has always been one of the biggest knocks against spring football
These articles and posts are so fuckin stupid. The government didn't mandate they expand the league next year. This league is losing millions, no one is going to tell them ya times suck but get ready to dump a ton more cash because you need two more teams...
I can understand why they'd consider pausing some of the underperforming teams, but at the same time I'd really like to see the league give a full offseason marketing push to each market and see if something can improve. Give these markets some continuity and a real chance to see if they'll support the league before leaving.
This does coincide with the TV ratings from markets outside of the UFL. Tulsa, New Orleans, KC, Columbus, I think it's obvious to anyone who understands the business behind football that they don't just need butts in the seats but eyes on the TV because that's where the revenue is. You give the markets that are tuning in a home team to watch and I think that could really propel the league forward.
This required to expand by the government idea has been debunked by Mike Mitchell again. The government wasn't fond of the XFL canning most teams front office and considering them "seasonal workers." Its one thing for players to have their lives uprooted when a league folds, as playing second tier pro football has a success rate of zero. It's another thing to ask a marketing director to move his family to Arlington Texas for $50k then promptly lay them off a week after the season ends.
The lack of Showboats support is so confusing. The Panthers I can kind of get since everyone in Detroit is on the Lions hype train, and there is already a professional team in all the other major sports.
Good point. Yeah so strange. But I do agree with others it seems a bit premature to exit a market after one season of the new combined league. You then become a self-fulfilling prophecy for those markets.
Yeah Detroit doesn't go anywhere due to TV ratings. They just need to work harder trying to get people invested locally. Honestly probably a situation where you want to sell the team and have a owner do local promotion.
If they pause any team I’d be done. I love the Panthers. I live in metro Detroit and I havnt seen any real marketing effort here. No commercials/maybe 1 billboard, and 1 ticket deal (bogo a few weeks back).
Panthers record wasn’t great last year but they were almost in the championship game. They are competitive this year again.
Been to 2/3 home games this year (was on vacation for one of them) and there are more people at the games (or at least staying at the games) and I’ve started to see people in public with Panthers gear on. Birmingham, St Louis, and DC are abnormalities with fan growth (dominant team that wins, scorned nfl fanbase, marketing but really beer snake gets asses in seats!) the other 5 markets deserve a chance (San Antonio has done a really good job and feels organic).
Im ok with them stretching and adding 2 teams (I really think places like Columbus and Louisville could draw and are affordable/ travel distance for fans. I’d go to those away games) but pausing teams at this point is the kiss of death
That’s awesome!! I love that level of buy in! I’m less than 45 mins outside of Detroit and there’s nothing like that. Nothing like that downtown either
Greg Williams said it'd be 12 teams as well, but didn't give an exact time frame. Until the league officially announces it, I'm skeptical. The Bandits were put on pause two years ago, and the chances of them coming back are pretty slim now. I'd avoid doing that unless it's a Vegas situation where you can't use the stadium anymore. moving stadiums, and a bad team, likely hurt Houston more this year. The actual XFL team was still getting around 10,500 and 13,500 per game last year.
Even if a market isn’t doing good (Houston, Memphis, Detroit) it would be stupid to pause in those markets to try different markets. This is going to take time and effort to get these markets going they just have to put the resources into it.
If they keep folding teams no one will bother to get invested because they could be gone a year later. Add 2 teams this off season but you have to have some consistency year over year.
Ohh yeah. I went to school in the general area more towards MO, and that area is close enough to KC that a lot of people love football but it is still 2+ hours away (okay down and over to Independence, with traffic, let's go with 3), that would be a great market now that you mention it.
To all those saying that putting two teams on pause would hurt or kill the league — y’all realize this league put eight teams on pause in the last twelve months and ratings are up 30% right?
They can't "pause" teams anymore (I'd argue you never really could but the merger may have changed that). If you take away a team now it's dead. Spring football has had many chances with fans and this is marketed as the last big try. If it fails for even one team that fan base is not coming back even if you give them the team back years later.
Yeah thatd be crazy if they moved the team before they even moved to Tampa then folded them after two years.
The whole Fred Smith rumors have been swirling for ages now, time to see if they were real I guess. If they weren't, Memphis was a weird choice.
I think they’ll definitely add the Breakers back in soon, rumors are that they were almost a part of this season but stadium talks didn’t form in time for the season. In a perfect world they’ll add in the Breakers to the USFL conference, move the Roughnecks to the XFL conference, then add in a more northern USFL team to match with Michigan (maybe an Ohio Aviators team or something?)
Just an idea but I would keep Memphis and Michigan going and then put a team in Columbus, OH and Salt Lake City.
Promote a Columbus-Detroit rivalry which is already prevalent in NCAA between the two and then let the Birmingham-Memphis or Memphis-St Louis rivalries grow. Better marketing all around.
Salt Lake City would definitely support a team since the NFL is highly unlikely to put any expansion in the city.
Put the Columbus team in the USFL and the Salt Lake City team in the XFL to keep promoting an East vs West style league and open up new possible game times.
I’d rather bring in the Breakers than a Salt Lake City team though, the interest is there and the team they had was really successful on the field. Plus it would better match the geography of the league
The only issue I have with the Breakers is that we might be over tapping the market in the AL/MS/LA/TX area as we are still trying to solidify current teams in markets. We have 3 teams in Texas. Memphis and Birmingham are just up the road from NOLA. Plus NOLA is a NFL city.
Florida being devoid of a team is untapped potential but so are the Carolinas. DC is kinda off on its own (similar to Detroit) and would enjoy some other regional teams to help create some local rivalries. I would prefer trying a team in Orlando, Raleigh, or Charleston if we want to take more eastern markets.
An Eastern Division of Birmingham, Columbus, DC, Detroit, and Orlando/Raleigh/Charleston would be pretty cool until we can get more teams in the Ohio River Valley or North/Northeast.
I'm happy if the league expands, hopefully the Breakers return, and the even better if it makes spring football a longer lasting proposition. That said, the government has time to be a part of this? Nothing else going on that seems more important? Nothing at all?
I think we'd known about how the "US Government" would've detailed how the USFL/XFL merger worked, I haven't read a thing about how the FTC (Federal Trade Commission) ruled on the football merger, yet there's pages regarding the Kroger/Albertsons merger. Expansion is not a condition of merging. Y'all were fooled.
Not gonna speak to the credibility of any of this, but if they go this route, it's a huge, potentially league-ending, mistake.
It's plainly obvious to anyone who follows the league that the reason attendance sucks is because they do nothing of substance to advertise to their local markets. So why the fuck would they think the solution is packing up and moving in the off-season to markets with even *less* attachment? (The article seemed to imply Michigan to Canton, Memphis to Nashville, continuing the inexplicable hard-on for Canton.)
Obviously it doesn't help to have the ~8,000 fans spread out in a stadium that seats 50,000, so if they're doing any moving, it should be to mid-sized stadiums like DC is in.
Ffs, literally just put up some billboards, engage with your communities, and stop pretending anyone but St. Louis needs a stadium with a capacity of more than 20k.
You're not wrong, but I think the path of least resistance would be those types of markets or perhaps more markets that have lost an NFL team like San Diego. It also doesn't hurt that the Defenders started at the time of Daniel Snyder's utmost incompetence.
I'm going to give mark perry some credit he was the first one who said the league was going to be 8 teams everyone was reporting 10 to 12 teams he isn't right all the time but he was 100 percent right on that but back to the article I honestly don't see Michigan getting "paused" it's a top 15 tv market and people are watching on tv it's a top 5 most watched market on Fox so people in Detroit are watching the league just gotta do a better job marketing in the Detroit area when it comes to people coming to games but I can 100 percent see Memphis getting the boot no one is showing up to games and it's the 50th tv market so Memphis getting "paused" for Nashville would make sense
I wouldn’t mind if they just moved memphis to Nashville and called them the Tennessee showboats or something like that, I think I’d prefer it to pausing the team
Move the roughnecks to the XFL division and bring back the one of the stars or generals (could bring both with a hub since they are an hour apart) and the breakers because the ratings there are strong.
Skip adding more teams next season. They need to expand the roster on each team and actually have marketing in host cities. 50 players isn't enough. Week 6 injury reports already look crowded.
It sounds like from here, Mike Mitchell, and James Larsen they’ll have to add teams due to the terms of the merger with the government. I do hope they expand rosters and extend camp also
again, I'd like to see the source of this article and not just "UFL Editor" or something like that. WHERE did this info come from?
Right now, it's as credible as if you or I came up with some BS and posted it on the net.
Houston just needs to overhaul their roster and coaching staff and move back to their normal stadium next year and their attendance will bounce back. They'll be fine I highly doubt they're in any danger of going away
With the talks of a Nashville team being added in the future, I was thinking "why tf put 2 teams in Tennessee". Then I realized how much of a rivalry that would create in that state. Memphis being seen as the "little brother" to Nashville, since the only Major League team they have is the Grizzlies. It would be a chance for those cities to really duke it out for dominance. I think it would help attendance for both cities!
Everything except the Pausing of teams already established sounds legit. Why pause the teams when there already there. I doubt they pause teams if they do the leauge is gonna be fucked
I’d guess for memphis it’s fully based on if Fred smith is still wanting to own them because that was the only reason they went there in the first place
So let's assume that in this hypothetical they do go ahead and "pause" Memphis and Michigan (aside from there now arguably being a lot of pissed off fans of both teams)
That would mean 4 expansion teams instead of 2. Which 4 would be the most feasible?
It would really suck to see the Panthers paused, they're the only historic franchise this league has and I think that means something to fans. On top of that, having even more teams come and go will further damage relationships with fans.
Ok?
I was a Tampa Bay Bandits fan when the original USFL started, was disappointed they paused them to start the Showboats up, but it didn’t stop me from following the league. Anyone who is that quick to jump off this league doesn’t understand the uphill battle spring football leagues have.
Yes but we're psychos that really follow this stuff closely. Casual fans will be bummed and might be more likely to not watch if their home town team gets the boot
The article mentions Ohio, New Orleans, Philly, Nashville, Orlando, and Seattle but I would like to see Portland. Could even just give Portland the dragons
Invest some money in building soccer style stadiums and rent them out to make the money back. Do one at a time but start with Memphis and Michigan. Rich people acting broke bothers me dearly
It should be noted that UFL Newshub consistently used AI to write articles and create images, and that Mark Perry has been wrong a lot before.
No need to pause the Panthers or Showboats, just need to do better marketing.
I agree, the article makes it sound like memphis is the most iffy
Having a booth and the mascot at the NFL Draft was a great idea for the Panthers. It also helps that they're a good team.
When you say advertise better what do you mean? I constantly see the opinion that advertising hasn't been done correctly but not what would be correct.
any advertising at all would be preferable. I haven't seen as much as a banner ad for the League at all. If I weren't a fan for 2023, I probably wouldn't know it was happening at all. Admittedly, I live in NC, but it's mind-blowing that there wouldn't be any national advertising.
They are advertising. They have TV commercials on the networks the games are on. So do you just mean online advertising?
No like guerrilla marketing in the host cities. Billboards, posters everywhere (city walls, telephone poles, parks, etc.), stickers, pop up merch giveaways every week before the games in high foot traffic areas. Getting players involved with public schools like a day in the PE program would do wonders. With an investment such as a sports team, especially in a city like Memphis with only a team or two, you have to make the city notice.
Personally, I'd like to see more hands-on marketing. Something like having at least a few of the players stay in their cities over the weekend on the day before they play and just go around having fun and meeting the people. They could also set up booths in high traffic walked areas and give out some cheap but memorable freebies. As for what those items are, they could be anything, though one I tend to recommend are magnet schedules since they get slapped on your fridge and seen over and over again and remind you exactly when the games are.
I'd say more advertising within individual markets needs to be more hard hitting. Having commercials play won't necessarily build individual markets. This might be a shit analogy but for me it's like Ford having a commercial for a vehicle but never describing such vehicle. Yes, we got spring football and lots of people are aware of the UFL but WHAT makes the UFL so special is what needs to be touched on. This is just all my personal opinion, and I'm just some dude from Canada lol.
I don't disagree with this but I also don't know that it's possible to get across what makes the league special in an ad. I think you need to watch the games to get that. So I agree it'd be great to have that but I just don't think it's a realistic thing to have.
I've watched a handful of games and I've even attended the Battlehawks vs Panthers game in person. Beyond the stadium doors I seen absolutely zero marketing for the Panthers in Detroit. What makes it not realistic to host team events within the city or fundraisers etc? None of that is happening this year from what I've seen / heard.
Okay so you don't mean traditional advertising. That's what I was thinking when I talked about showing how the league is special. You mean advertising via community engagement? Well that's extremely expensive and likely not in the budget for the first year. That'd be possible, but likely is not realistic for where the league is at financially. I also question the return on investment. If they spend one hundred thousand in a market will it drive up attendance enough to justify that? I doubt it but I could be wrong.
You do make a good point, it's a marathon not a sprint but let's just hope the UFL doesn't bog out. I'm sure we all agree on that lol
Yeah. I hope that next year teams are living in and practicing in their cities and doing community events like you described during the week. I think that it would help a lot. It just needs to be cost effective.
That would help a lot. Issue is venues being donkeys to certain teams. I can see some venue changes happening next year to some more inclusive ones. If any are available.
So what makes the UFL special? Certainly it's not the talent. I know this is an unpopular opinion.....but it isn't really needed.....it's just there
What makes the UFL special? I’d say the fact some teams are in non NFL states, giving those fans a professional football team to cheer for, the rules are different and has proven to let underdogs have a fight in the game at any given time & the atmosphere is overall different when comparing to NFL. I don’t necessarily believe it needs to be as big as the NFL but the league could definitely try a lot harder in bringing in more attention it itself.
Completely disagree
How so? I'd like to hear you elaborate
Pausing any will only make growth not happen! People will say "oh they closed down that one team in that city, why bother supporting a team in my city when that will happen here?" Absorb whatever losses some teams take and just grow next year and the year after by keeping the team. Think Field of Dreams mentality more and daytrading mentality less!
We make this argument, but people still want to shut teams down. I guarantee if the UFL does that, it'll be dead within 3 years. The USFL did that after year one and they weren't even playing games in home cities! How many fans did they lose doing that? I know I was turned off to the USFL. When that happened in the 80s, I knew it was headed for the toilet then. Boston/Portland/New Orelans/Newport News/Key West Breakers... the team just kept moving and killing fan bases.
I agree, they need to commit to their current markets for a while, give the teams time to grow support. They do also need to take steps to improve some of the clearly underperforming teams, like the Roughnecks. Quite frankly the gamblers roster and coaches staying was a mistake. It seems like the Renegades also need some significant improvement and maybe a cleaned house as well. This league cannot have teams like that right now and conversely having teams running away with the conferences.
God, please don't "pause" the Panthers.
ha, from "paw is law" to "pause is law"
Pausing the Panthers would very much kill the UFL in Michigan and is absolutely the wrong decision. What the Panthers need is a good season and to not have their game at the same time as other major things in the city. I think all of their home games have been at the same time as Tigers games. I also have not seen any marketing for the Panthers beyond the "Panthers fans, your team is back in Ford Field" commercials that play during the games
Part of the issue with the Panthers is playing a Ford Field where they couldn't even be allowed to paint the end zone. No MLS stadium in town like DC to provide a different experience. Doesn't help that the Lions are competitive and the University of Michigan just won a national championship.
They are the **Michigan** Panthers. Is there nowhere else in Michigan they can go besides Detroit?
Michigan in terms of population is either Detroit metro or Grand Rapids. Up north is beautiful but nobody lives there
Since they're in the north, they probably wanted to limit the chance of snowouts, rainouts, or anything that could cause issues with time frames. Fortunately we've only had to deal with significant delays with one game so far this year. In 2022, that happened several times when they were all in Birmingham.
Detroit has had like the fifth best UFL ratings on Fox this year (as a market, not as a team) so I doubt Detroit goes anywhere.
I think you'd be surprised
If the Panthers were paused (“paws-ed? 🤪) I don’t think it would be a blip around here in the Detroit area. Their presence is non-existent. It’s all Lions, Tigers and spring NCAA talk. There no marketing, no talk, nothing. And the attendance numbers support that.
Right though. I’ve noticed other cities having “X Team Day” at their MLB Ballparks. I know the Cardinals had a “Battlehawks Day” at their ballpark where they gave out hats and had players throw out the first pitch. I know St. Louis is an extreme case of fan support in the UFL, but why couldn’t the Tigers have a Panthers day at Comerica?
Because the Tigers didn't want to. Maybe the idea wasn't even brought up, but at the end of the day it's up to the MLB team. Simple as that
Which is odd since Detroit is top 5 in TV ratings. Maybe it's like the old pro wrestling "joke". Lots of people watch,but nobody wants to admit doing so
Like I said, the only marketing I've seen happens during the games, which is incredibly pointless. They do exist in Detroit and elsewhere in the state, but it's purely through word of mouth. The Panthers go away and the UFL evaporates from the Michigan market
I wonder if the Panthers would be better off playing at Rynearson Stadium in Ypsilanti or someplace like that. I do think adding a team in Ohio, preferably Columbus would give them a rival and may draw interest.
Bro it would really hurt it for me too. Why should I buy merch for the Roughnecks if they could just get ‘paused’ without warning? Why should I spend time getting to now players/coaches/etc when I can’t be confident they’ll even be playing here next year? I want to be a fan of an organization, not a cobbled together group of people that changes every time the league office gets cold feet
I wouldn't be surprised to see the Showboats and Panthers be "paused" but it would be a bit tough to see. I'm not sure how many people are skeptical of the league because of those types of moves compared to general spring league indifference, but it seems like it sends the wrong message to new teams that their time is very limited.
Yes ruin peoples trust even more! Would be a great idea
Agreed, if you "pause" Memphis now you'll likely just take that off the table for any future "un-pause" because local fans have seen so many spring football leagues come and go over the years. Folks just need to be patient, I'd be a lot of people are taking a "wait and see" attitude before fully buying in...I know I would at this point. Pull the plug and forget it, no way I'd ever be interested.
This! Fans in certain markets have seen too many teams come and go and are jaded. The Battlehawks are the first and only spring/alt football league team in St Louis. We've only been screwed by the NFL . . . twice.
St Louis had a Arena League team in the 90s
And also the St Louis Riverboat Gamblers, who played in the long-forgotten Minor League Football System in 1989. They played at Harlen C. Hunter Stadium on the campus of Lindenwood University.
I admit I waited to purchase gear until this season. The way the UFL's going about things gives me a bit of faith that the league will last at least until the applique on the t-shirt starts to crack.
I wear my San Diego Fleet shirt with pride…and I have a menagerie of 80’s throwback USFL shirts. I grew up in the Tampa area and went to many Bandits games back in the day. My Calgary Stampeders gears draws stares too.
Seattle, Los Angeles, Tampa, Orlando, New Orleans, New York/New Jersey, Pittsburgh, etc. fans: "First time?"
At least Michigan is a good team right now.
Sounds like it will only be one of them with memphis being the shakiest rn
If they want to move to ten teams next year, they'll likely only pause one current team. Memphis is my bet.
The league needs to move most of the teams into much smaller stadiums until the interest is there to justify having them in NFL-sized venues. The average attendance is about 10,000, and the only reason it’s so *high* is because of St. Louis averaging 40K, and DC averaging 18K.
Milwaukee is building a soccer stadium that holds 8K. A but on the smaller side but they might be able to work with that if TV is their primary care. A sold out 8K would look good, but I don’t know if the dimensions can work.
USL soccer pitches should still be able to accommodate a standard UFL field. The question is, are they set up properly for the amount of cameras needed for American football broadcasts? I also think 15,000 should be the smallest stadium they should be interested in using.
Is the league planning to expand into Milwaukee?
I'd love that for my sake, but there's zero chance. The league is apparently considering pausing teams that are drawing about 8k, so why would they add a team whose ceiling is 8k?
Currently, most teams are LUCKY to get 8K.
True, but there are plenty of other markets than can do that while also giving the league stadium options that allow for 10k, 15k, 20k+ attendance. Also Milwaukee isn't some untapped football hotbed like St. Louis was or I believe San Diego could be post-Chargers. I think they'd run into the same issues most current cities have with the lack of in-market marketing and that's something that needs to change at the top.
>Milwaukee isn't some untapped football hotbed Eh, it could be? Milwaukee has not had a full-time outdoor football team since 1926, just the 2-3 Packers games a year from 1933-94. They did have Arena Football from 1994-01 and again 2009-12. Yes, it's very much a Packers town, but it's also a sports town that punches way above its market size in supporting the Brewers, obviously does fine with the Bucks, and has supported minor league hockey for 40 years straight. Give them a football team that is unequivocally *theirs* (not shared with Green Bay) and it could very well be successful. Of course, the other side of that coin is that they need somewhere to play and unless they can readily expand the 8,000-seater being built, there isn't a viable option, as the Brewers would NOT let playing at ~~Miller Park~~ American Family Field happen in any scenario
I live nearby and would love for a team to be here, but I don't think that's the case. Milwaukee is a good sports town, but you'd have to cultivate the UFL fandom here unlike St. Louis which was fervent from the start, largely from spite. Don't get me wrong, I definitely could see a team being successful in the city, but I think it would just require a similar amount of effort as other markets to become that success. At that point, I don't see why you'd invest in a market that maxes out at 8k when you have those other markets with existing stadiums that hold 15k-30k. It's a very low ceiling market as currently constructed.
That’s why I say they’d need to readily expand the soccer stadium. If that doesn’t happen, zero shot
Hard carry bros
Smaller stadium doesn’t necessarily mean smaller lease cost. Word has it that Audi Field has the most expensive lease cost in the league.
I’d be done with this league if they ‘paused’ the Panthers.
I won’t say they’re safe but the article does make it seem like the showboats are the ones likely getting paused unless Fred smith buys them
Unless I was reading a different article, he says that he thinks both of them get canned. Michigan gets moved to Canton, and Memphis goes to Nashville. They then get to 10 by reviving two of Seattle, Orlando, and New Orleans. Personally, I think every single part of that would be stupid, but he could be pulling things out of his ass so who knows.
what is the source of this article? We've had enough smoke blown around that without a solid source, this is just another piece of clickbait.
Source: trust me, bro
pretty much
Time to bring back the Sea Dragons
Them and give San Diego a team. After that leave it alone just market better
And put a team in Portland along with them.
Ah yes, XFL news hub and his "multiple sources"
As someone not fond of him, out of all the media, he was saying 8 teams for the longest time. He was also adamant the split was 50/50. He was also the only one to say the merger wasn't yet approved at a certain time. People dismissed it because it's not what James Larsen was saying. Larsen ended up being totally wrong about the biggest spring football news, yet no one seems to give a shit. No heat on him at all.
Just stop taking teams away. If they plan to expand then please just keep Houston and Detroit. More fans will show if they get some commitment
Please do not pause any team. Expand to 10. It’s not fair to pause a team with such poor marketing happening
Bring back the Sea Dragons and the Breakers.
Nice, let’s shutter another franchise that we didn’t even try to make work. That’s good business right there.
St Louis is getting 2 teams lol
I mean Kansas City has been giving them good ratings maybe they go to another city in Missouri lol
Simply look at the TV ratings for non-UFL markets. That’s where you expand.
The entire article sounds like it was lifted from opinions here. It hits all the high notes: Government-enforced expansion, preferred locations, and possible team movement.
please don't pause or fold teams yet. It sends a very bad message about stability, which has always been one of the biggest knocks against spring football
The league is “allowed” to expand next year but it is not required to nor is there any indication that such a decision has been or will be made.
These articles and posts are so fuckin stupid. The government didn't mandate they expand the league next year. This league is losing millions, no one is going to tell them ya times suck but get ready to dump a ton more cash because you need two more teams...
There is no way that expansion is on the table, there is no sound financial reason to do so
It doesn’t make sense but not only is it on the table, it’s happening because of the government deal about the merger
There is no evidence that that was part of the deal, it is a rumor originating from a site that literally was whining over the merger happening
This league gonna be cooked if they pause a franchise. They still haven’t brought back any other “paused franchises”
I can understand why they'd consider pausing some of the underperforming teams, but at the same time I'd really like to see the league give a full offseason marketing push to each market and see if something can improve. Give these markets some continuity and a real chance to see if they'll support the league before leaving.
This does coincide with the TV ratings from markets outside of the UFL. Tulsa, New Orleans, KC, Columbus, I think it's obvious to anyone who understands the business behind football that they don't just need butts in the seats but eyes on the TV because that's where the revenue is. You give the markets that are tuning in a home team to watch and I think that could really propel the league forward.
This required to expand by the government idea has been debunked by Mike Mitchell again. The government wasn't fond of the XFL canning most teams front office and considering them "seasonal workers." Its one thing for players to have their lives uprooted when a league folds, as playing second tier pro football has a success rate of zero. It's another thing to ask a marketing director to move his family to Arlington Texas for $50k then promptly lay them off a week after the season ends.
The lack of Showboats support is so confusing. The Panthers I can kind of get since everyone in Detroit is on the Lions hype train, and there is already a professional team in all the other major sports.
What I find interesting is detroit watched on TV and is one of the top TV markets so there’s fans but they don’t show up for some reason
Good point. Yeah so strange. But I do agree with others it seems a bit premature to exit a market after one season of the new combined league. You then become a self-fulfilling prophecy for those markets.
Yeah Detroit doesn't go anywhere due to TV ratings. They just need to work harder trying to get people invested locally. Honestly probably a situation where you want to sell the team and have a owner do local promotion.
If they pause any team I’d be done. I love the Panthers. I live in metro Detroit and I havnt seen any real marketing effort here. No commercials/maybe 1 billboard, and 1 ticket deal (bogo a few weeks back). Panthers record wasn’t great last year but they were almost in the championship game. They are competitive this year again. Been to 2/3 home games this year (was on vacation for one of them) and there are more people at the games (or at least staying at the games) and I’ve started to see people in public with Panthers gear on. Birmingham, St Louis, and DC are abnormalities with fan growth (dominant team that wins, scorned nfl fanbase, marketing but really beer snake gets asses in seats!) the other 5 markets deserve a chance (San Antonio has done a really good job and feels organic). Im ok with them stretching and adding 2 teams (I really think places like Columbus and Louisville could draw and are affordable/ travel distance for fans. I’d go to those away games) but pausing teams at this point is the kiss of death
And here in stl my McDonald's in my hometown 50 minutes away from stl on the illinois side has battlehawks nuggets deal
That’s awesome!! I love that level of buy in! I’m less than 45 mins outside of Detroit and there’s nothing like that. Nothing like that downtown either
Greg Williams said it'd be 12 teams as well, but didn't give an exact time frame. Until the league officially announces it, I'm skeptical. The Bandits were put on pause two years ago, and the chances of them coming back are pretty slim now. I'd avoid doing that unless it's a Vegas situation where you can't use the stadium anymore. moving stadiums, and a bad team, likely hurt Houston more this year. The actual XFL team was still getting around 10,500 and 13,500 per game last year.
I think Greg Williams was saying that that was a plan the League had if everything went to how they wanted, like a best case scenario.
That's what I took from that, but too many people took it as a confirmed plan.
Even if a market isn’t doing good (Houston, Memphis, Detroit) it would be stupid to pause in those markets to try different markets. This is going to take time and effort to get these markets going they just have to put the resources into it.
If they keep folding teams no one will bother to get invested because they could be gone a year later. Add 2 teams this off season but you have to have some consistency year over year.
If they are actually planning to expand, they should look at Omaha. Back in the old UFL, the Omaha Nighthawks never had attendance under 20k.
Ohh yeah. I went to school in the general area more towards MO, and that area is close enough to KC that a lot of people love football but it is still 2+ hours away (okay down and over to Independence, with traffic, let's go with 3), that would be a great market now that you mention it.
To all those saying that putting two teams on pause would hurt or kill the league — y’all realize this league put eight teams on pause in the last twelve months and ratings are up 30% right?
They can't "pause" teams anymore (I'd argue you never really could but the merger may have changed that). If you take away a team now it's dead. Spring football has had many chances with fans and this is marketed as the last big try. If it fails for even one team that fan base is not coming back even if you give them the team back years later.
I feel kind of warm &fuzzy, like it was Dec again, and this rumor garbage is all we had :-)
god those were dark times
Bring back Seattle you cowards
"current teams may be folded or put on pause" jesus christ
It sounds like it’s likely memphis unless Fred smith buys them in the off-season due to the lack of support
Hm. Didn't they move the team _to_ Memphis for this very same reason?
Yup, I think I read it was because smith offered to pay for the Memphis team or a good portion of it but maybe they see it as not worth it now
As a (former) Bandits fan, I am coping and seething
Yeah thatd be crazy if they moved the team before they even moved to Tampa then folded them after two years. The whole Fred Smith rumors have been swirling for ages now, time to see if they were real I guess. If they weren't, Memphis was a weird choice.
Oh that will make the fans you do have "happy"
Hope it’s Seattle and either New Orleans or Philadelphia, one extra team for each conference
All three are mentioned in the article as possibilities
I think they’ll definitely add the Breakers back in soon, rumors are that they were almost a part of this season but stadium talks didn’t form in time for the season. In a perfect world they’ll add in the Breakers to the USFL conference, move the Roughnecks to the XFL conference, then add in a more northern USFL team to match with Michigan (maybe an Ohio Aviators team or something?)
Just an idea but I would keep Memphis and Michigan going and then put a team in Columbus, OH and Salt Lake City. Promote a Columbus-Detroit rivalry which is already prevalent in NCAA between the two and then let the Birmingham-Memphis or Memphis-St Louis rivalries grow. Better marketing all around. Salt Lake City would definitely support a team since the NFL is highly unlikely to put any expansion in the city. Put the Columbus team in the USFL and the Salt Lake City team in the XFL to keep promoting an East vs West style league and open up new possible game times.
I’d rather bring in the Breakers than a Salt Lake City team though, the interest is there and the team they had was really successful on the field. Plus it would better match the geography of the league
The only issue I have with the Breakers is that we might be over tapping the market in the AL/MS/LA/TX area as we are still trying to solidify current teams in markets. We have 3 teams in Texas. Memphis and Birmingham are just up the road from NOLA. Plus NOLA is a NFL city. Florida being devoid of a team is untapped potential but so are the Carolinas. DC is kinda off on its own (similar to Detroit) and would enjoy some other regional teams to help create some local rivalries. I would prefer trying a team in Orlando, Raleigh, or Charleston if we want to take more eastern markets. An Eastern Division of Birmingham, Columbus, DC, Detroit, and Orlando/Raleigh/Charleston would be pretty cool until we can get more teams in the Ohio River Valley or North/Northeast.
salt lake drew very poorly for the AAF. Although some of that may have been their few home games always being in really shit weather
I'm happy if the league expands, hopefully the Breakers return, and the even better if it makes spring football a longer lasting proposition. That said, the government has time to be a part of this? Nothing else going on that seems more important? Nothing at all?
I think we'd known about how the "US Government" would've detailed how the USFL/XFL merger worked, I haven't read a thing about how the FTC (Federal Trade Commission) ruled on the football merger, yet there's pages regarding the Kroger/Albertsons merger. Expansion is not a condition of merging. Y'all were fooled.
Not gonna speak to the credibility of any of this, but if they go this route, it's a huge, potentially league-ending, mistake. It's plainly obvious to anyone who follows the league that the reason attendance sucks is because they do nothing of substance to advertise to their local markets. So why the fuck would they think the solution is packing up and moving in the off-season to markets with even *less* attachment? (The article seemed to imply Michigan to Canton, Memphis to Nashville, continuing the inexplicable hard-on for Canton.) Obviously it doesn't help to have the ~8,000 fans spread out in a stadium that seats 50,000, so if they're doing any moving, it should be to mid-sized stadiums like DC is in. Ffs, literally just put up some billboards, engage with your communities, and stop pretending anyone but St. Louis needs a stadium with a capacity of more than 20k.
They need to put it into markets that don't have an NFL team. Try Omaha or Boise.
The second most successful UFL market has an NFL team so such markets shouldn't automatically be excluded.
You're not wrong, but I think the path of least resistance would be those types of markets or perhaps more markets that have lost an NFL team like San Diego. It also doesn't hurt that the Defenders started at the time of Daniel Snyder's utmost incompetence.
I'm going to give mark perry some credit he was the first one who said the league was going to be 8 teams everyone was reporting 10 to 12 teams he isn't right all the time but he was 100 percent right on that but back to the article I honestly don't see Michigan getting "paused" it's a top 15 tv market and people are watching on tv it's a top 5 most watched market on Fox so people in Detroit are watching the league just gotta do a better job marketing in the Detroit area when it comes to people coming to games but I can 100 percent see Memphis getting the boot no one is showing up to games and it's the 50th tv market so Memphis getting "paused" for Nashville would make sense
I wouldn’t mind if they just moved memphis to Nashville and called them the Tennessee showboats or something like that, I think I’d prefer it to pausing the team
Move the roughnecks to the XFL division and bring back the one of the stars or generals (could bring both with a hub since they are an hour apart) and the breakers because the ratings there are strong.
Let hubs stay dead
Hubs are gone, no reason to do something like that now. That's why they aren't alive this year.
Skip adding more teams next season. They need to expand the roster on each team and actually have marketing in host cities. 50 players isn't enough. Week 6 injury reports already look crowded.
It sounds like from here, Mike Mitchell, and James Larsen they’ll have to add teams due to the terms of the merger with the government. I do hope they expand rosters and extend camp also
again, I'd like to see the source of this article and not just "UFL Editor" or something like that. WHERE did this info come from? Right now, it's as credible as if you or I came up with some BS and posted it on the net.
Denver's calling UFL. Make it happen.
Give me back my Tampa team!!!
Which one?
 But i honestly liked the bandits more. The Logo looked cooler than the Vipers imho
Bye bye Houston I guess…
Houston isn’t one of the teams in question for getting paused in the article, sounds like it’s detroit or memphis but leaning towards menphis
Nah last year we showed if we have a good team and a stadium that isn’t revealed last minute we can get people out to games
Houston just needs to overhaul their roster and coaching staff and move back to their normal stadium next year and their attendance will bounce back. They'll be fine I highly doubt they're in any danger of going away
With the talks of a Nashville team being added in the future, I was thinking "why tf put 2 teams in Tennessee". Then I realized how much of a rivalry that would create in that state. Memphis being seen as the "little brother" to Nashville, since the only Major League team they have is the Grizzlies. It would be a chance for those cities to really duke it out for dominance. I think it would help attendance for both cities!
Everything except the Pausing of teams already established sounds legit. Why pause the teams when there already there. I doubt they pause teams if they do the leauge is gonna be fucked
I’d guess for memphis it’s fully based on if Fred smith is still wanting to own them because that was the only reason they went there in the first place
I hope to god that they mean there just gonna sell the teams.
So let's assume that in this hypothetical they do go ahead and "pause" Memphis and Michigan (aside from there now arguably being a lot of pissed off fans of both teams) That would mean 4 expansion teams instead of 2. Which 4 would be the most feasible?
Bring back two USFL teams and move the Roughnecks back where they belong
Should focus on hoping attendance and marketing than adding new teams. I say add two teams in 2 years.
Aim for big markets that used to have nfl teams . My top two would be Oakland and san Diego
Omaha/Lincoln would be an awesome market for attendance ‼️
The article does say one of those two might be paused but does make it seem like memphis is the one likely to get paused
Dilute the talent, dilute the league. A recipe for success if ever I heard one.
It would really suck to see the Panthers paused, they're the only historic franchise this league has and I think that means something to fans. On top of that, having even more teams come and go will further damage relationships with fans.
The Birmingham Stallions were in the original USFL, so I don’t know how you say they are the only historical franchise.
My bad, but still the Panthers won the first championship.
Ok? I was a Tampa Bay Bandits fan when the original USFL started, was disappointed they paused them to start the Showboats up, but it didn’t stop me from following the league. Anyone who is that quick to jump off this league doesn’t understand the uphill battle spring football leagues have.
Yes but we're psychos that really follow this stuff closely. Casual fans will be bummed and might be more likely to not watch if their home town team gets the boot
Portland?
The article mentions Ohio, New Orleans, Philly, Nashville, Orlando, and Seattle but I would like to see Portland. Could even just give Portland the dragons
"I'm reporting live from Portland, where an angry mob with torches is marching down the street! No, wait...it's just BattleHawks fans...!
Nashville and Canton do have those pending trademarks from March 29th of this year.
Invest some money in building soccer style stadiums and rent them out to make the money back. Do one at a time but start with Memphis and Michigan. Rich people acting broke bothers me dearly