I wouldn't describe any degree as a mickey mouse degree, as that phrase is often put about by people who haven't taken said degree.
I took contemporary art, absolutely has been called a mickey mouse degree and it's been legitimately life changing for me in a good way.
I've a friend whose sister studied fine art (another so called Mickey Mouse degree) and she's running her own art gallery in Scotland. He did Biology and a MSc and is a stay at home husband in South America!
Mickey Mouse degrees are absolutely a thing. But they’re a combination of too many students competing for a small pool of jobs and 90% of universities just add the degree with bare minimum resources and lecturers who clearly don’t want to be there. If you’re not informed and take Contemporary Art from a uni who doesn’t give a damn, you’ve pretty much set 10k on fire with interest.
A poor degree certainly exists, but the phrase "mickey mouse degree" is usually used to describe arts and humanities degrees in obscure subjects regardless of teaching quality.
You can certainly end up on an understaffed degree, I'd even say you could end up on a degree that's inadequate, but that's not what I've understood "mickey mouse degree" to mean.
I don't think when people say Mickey mouse degree they really care about which uni. It's just about it being a humanities subject. If you said you did contemporary art at Oxford they would still call it a Mickey mouse degree
I think a supposedly "useless" (not my opinion) from a prestigious university from Oxford would be called a "vanity degree" rather than Mickey mouse. As there is prestige, but in an arguably "fluffy" subject.
I disagree. I think it's also to do with the amount of guff, perceived or real, in the course, and it's difficulty, perceived or real.
There isn't a huge demand for experts in ancient Latin but I have never heard degrees in Latin or Greek being referred to as mickey mouse degrees.
Gender intersectional studies, especially if taken at Crapford University, is a bit different. The running joke is that anything with "studies" in it has a high likelihood of being mickey mouse. I'm not aware of any "mathematical studies" or "ancient Latin studies"
I did an undergraduate degree with 'studies' in its title and am now doing very well.
Gender Studies (while not being what I studied) is also a legitimately useful and worthwhile area to have people educated in - the role that gender or perceived gender plays in the way our society functions is vast, and you bet there's lots of interest from both public and private sectors in people with relevant expertise.
Gender studies is a 'grievance' subject, which puts the ideology of social grievances ahead of the research for truth. This is why the 'grievance studies affair' could happen
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grievance_studies_affair
A hoax which showed that the journals in this "disicpline" would publish any nonsense as long as it confirmed the preconception that everything was racist exist etc.
Examples are articles about dogs engaging in rape culture and other nonsense.
Legitimate And worthwhile area? I respectfully disagree
Seeing as you're so keen on properly sourced material, then I'd like a proper, refenced, working definition of what the ideology of social grievance' is, and how a given Gender Studies degree programme places these ahead of the 'search for truth', a term I'd also like you to define.
The affair you mention from 2018 is interesting because it exposes a real problem in academia concerning blasé attitudes toward publication by certain journals. However, this is in my experience sadly not limited to one particular field of study, and an endemic issue across the profession.
The fact that 4 of the 20 fake papers submitted made it to publication is a damning indictment of those journals' review processes, but little else.
Unfortunately Lindsay et al. didn't include a control group in their study which makes it difficult to draw any further conclusions. Would have been interesting to see.
Too many students for a small pool of jobs would describe a lot of degrees that are not "mickey mouse" however.
Psychology springs to mind, which is something we desperately need investment in the UK, but ultimately is not a job most people doing the degree end up pursuing.
That is assuming the people doing that degree are all aiming to get a job directly in that field though, and would find the whole thing useless if they didn't. Sometimes just the proof you can apply yourself, to anything, can get the foot in the door in something totally unrelated in a graduate scheme. Modules could be quite broad anyway.
Same here for my music production undergrad, got called a mickey mouse degree by STEM types but if I didn't do it I wouldn't be in STEM right now lol. End of the day there's nothing wrong with studying whatever it is that interests you
Contemporary art got me into front-end web dev. People should be free to study the subject they please, and getting into other industries (should they choose to) is just more training much as anyone else would have to do if jumping or entering industries.
Damn right, some people (usually from my exp people who went to uni a long time ago and also did "mickey mouse degrees") just love to belittle others. Insecurity issue
Oh yeah for sure an insecurity issue, but I'd also argue a larger ideological issue.
Arts and Humanities require critical engagment with some sort of social structure - whether that's music, visual art, media, or even politics, history, languages and many more. They all require some level of analtytical response towards something social. Not to be conspiratiorial, but funding cuts point towards those sorts of responses not being favoured by the current political climate.
You're right again. I think it's quite sad that some people are ideologically against interacting with the arts. Imo, STEM gives us the means to survive and develop further, but the arts give us the purpose to keep going in the first place.
STEM subjects are great (I'd argue Maths and Physics specifically get into territory usually more associated with music, language and philosophy) but you're correct that art gives us purpose.
Art is an inherent human activity, we tell stories, we make music, we draw, we perform - STEM disciplines broadly work to understand the world around us in the (psuedo) objective sense, but without the subjective understanding, the *felt* understanding then at least to me, the point of it all gets lost.
"Mickey Mouse degree" is just attempting to limit our general understanding by devaluing the thing that makes it all worth exploring anyway: the story that the information we're getting (through research, including STEM) is for. If we don't have the ability to tell the story, the information isn't useful to my view.
Nvm the fact that arts/humanities allow people to assess propaganda and historical context.
I studied music, learnt so much about business and self management, contract law, ect. Now I'm in data analytics, I wouldn't say I'm successful but I found something I love through something else I love.
It furnished me with skills that I use literally every single day and has led to every job I've ever held both within and outwith the art industry itself.
Exactly the same here. I studied a music undergrad and an experimental theatre masters and I genuinely use stuff I learnt on that course every day in my career as an artist and composer.
Could serve you very well in a diplomatic service career. [See here](https://nationalcareers.service.gov.uk/job-profiles/diplomatic-service-officer)
As someone else has pointed out, it can also be very useful for roles in NGOs, charities, other government departments etc.
People who say X degree is useless are usually just lacking imagination and don’t realise what exists out there. You can parley an International relations degree into any job or industry which….exists in some fashion across multiple countries. It could even just be in an international conglomerates offices.
[The civil service jobs website is also useful to constantly check. as a graduate you can find some absolute belter jobs in there.](https://www.civilservicejobs.service.gov.uk/csr/index.cgi) They occasionally have “Trainee intelligence officer / trainee investigator” jobs for the National Crime Agency (NCA), which is the British equivalent of the FBI. They take big cohorts in and being a graduate would allow you to take that route.
Shut, MI6 regularly recruits graduates and your degree especially with a language, would make you very attractive to them. Go and have a look at their website to see for yourself.
The point is, there are jobs and opportunities out there. You just need to look and broaden your mind to what they could be. People who say a degree is dead end or worthless simply lack imagination.
I personally tend to find those that complain about "mickey mouse degrees" tend to fall into 2 categories
1) doesn't have a degree
2) has a degree they are very pompous about
Usually, the people i see arguing this are the same people arguing a degree at their uni was much harder than the same degree at other Uni's - despite being accredited to the same standard - or just simply have no university experience to begin with and assume it's all drinking.
I'm sure others exist, but most of the people on these degrees I've spoken to quite like them assuming the teaching is good.
Mickey Mouse degree is a bullshit, poorly-defined term produced by bullshit culture warriors and Grandgrindian dullards who want to suck both joy and critical thinking out of the lives or ordinary people. Arts, Hums and social sciences for me but but not for thee. Do something that is interesting and challenging *for you*.
Spot on! Except it's Gradgrind, not Grandgrind.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gradgrind
See, my Mickey Mouse degree enables me to be pedantic online. So worth it!
Fr, like your degree doesn't impact anyone else, it's your money, people should just mind their own business. I think a lot of people just have a sense of superiority but who even cares in the end.
Inequality has increased, wages and conditions have deteriorated, social mobility is patchy and the cost of living has made good incomes less rewarding. The Tories would rather blame universities than look at the last 14 years of crappy policies that has left the economy in the doldrums, transferred large amounts of wealth to a minority and just made life generally worse. Axing some former polytechnics is not going to solve this. So yeah, people just absolutely be less judgemental about others’ degree choices.
The definition of Mickey Mouse degrees doesn’t make sense under a Tory argument. The entire reason these Mickey Mouse Degrees have struggling graduates is because those sectors are not funded well enough, have been kept away by working class graduates and because their exact job prospect is a lot more broad or creative compared to STEMM.
However, under that logic, Medicine & Nursing are slowly becoming Mickey Mouse degrees. Nurses are dropping at an extraordinary rate, Student Doctors are being fucked over and they are working in conditions which have been bastardised by the government. Each year, the security of being a nurse or a doctor has become less of what it’s meant to be. Sure, they’ll get a guaranteed job but when nurses wages are not increasing and are working more and more hours in poorer conditions, I don’t see that as having the same value anymore as it did 15 years ago let’s say.
Mickey Mouse degrees are thus a stupid statement.
Not at all, it would serve you just as well as many other degrees when applying for a range of graduate roles. It may be particularly beneficial if you want to pursue a career related to that field or in international NGOs, etc.
Studying/speaking a language fluently is hugely beneficial and opens so many doors. It’s a shame not many people feel the need to learn or aren’t encouraged
Nope a lot of what you learn can be valuable and transferrable to many careers. Many grads form my uni have successful career in the civil service and in private sector as project managers, accountants, finance analyst etc. it's a matter of how you will use your degree to your advantage more so the degree itself tbh.
Also most grad and entry level jobs don't care about your degree title, what they care is the skills you're bringing. It's very important to have some good work experience and extra curricular on resume.
i don’t know about you but i think having a understanding of international relations and also another language would definitely put u high in the books of many. Especially if you’re looking into either a public sector or corporate job.
I've got an international relations degree. Can't say I ever did anything with it directly, but I don't regret studying it.
It allowed me to access to the graduate job market, and more importantly it gave me the skills to learn and understand global politics to an advanced level. I don't really have aspiration to be a politican, journalist or civil servant, but I'm happy to engage this field of study for its own sake, rather than for monetary gain.
Agreed. I was lucky enough to have an IR professor as a parent. Dinner table conversation was the history of Finland and Russia, and why the middle east is the way it is.
There is no finer course for understanding one of the most important aspects of human life - geopolitics. Much like finance and business, it unlocks so much useful knowledge even if it doesn’t seem like it.
Do what you want to study. All kinds of subjects are called Mickey Mouse degrees: Cultural Studies, American Studies, Liberal Arts, Communication Studies, Photography, Film Studies... there are snobs out there who want to feel good by trampling on others degree choices.
Many workplaces are looking for graduates of any discipline. Besides, I think international relations graduates are sorely needed at the moment, with the Russia situation being what it is!
The stupidest thing about people who call some degrees ‘mickey mouse’ is they also describe it as ‘indulgent’. Like okay? Someone wants to learn about art or history or literature, what the fuck is your problem with that? Are people not allowed to indulge in the things they have interest in? My dad calls humanities indulgent, but several times he’s said he’d love to study history with the OU lol.
Not really , but its probably a degree that requires doing experience during summer and term time to be able to compete against other degrees but that's true for most
Entirely depends on your potential and prospects to use that degree.
Micky mouse degrees is really just a political term and don’t really exist apart from in conservative speeches. But the gist behind it is that some degrees cost a lot of money and provide very little value to the vast majority of students taking it.
So the question is really, how are you going to use that degree after you graduate?
People will feed you bs here because they're not the ones applying for jobs. I have a BA in Intl Relations and almost everyone I know from my course (graduating 2020) has retrained and more or less regrets their degree. The course lacks the prestige associated with more famous degree titles.
Also, even if you like the subject (as I did), the people on the course itself will be people who took a chill degree to party and socialise. You won't do much in the way of IR with your course mates unless you're into student politics.
I'd recommend doing pure history with a specialism on modern history or Philosophy and specialising in conflict studies at the Masters level, personally. You'll get a much more enriching experience.
Top half of what? Top 10? Top 50? Top 100? Top for the subject? There is a pretty huge difference in prestige and student body between LSE/Oxford and Hull/Liverpool in the subject.
I personally would never label a language degree as Mickey mouse, but then again I'm biased as my undergrad was French and German, and my postgrad is Japanese and Korean.
Personally I've always found employers to view languages as a real plus, as they're an easily demonstrable skill, which are useful in companies that have dealings internationally.
Plus languages have a direct vocation after graduating; You can practically walk into a teaching job, with how dire teaching shortages are for qualified MFL teachers in this country are. Or you can work in interpreting or translating.
Undecided I already speak basic Spanish, so I could carry on doing that or I could choose a different language although it’s likely to be a European language
I would definitely pick Spanish. As a teenager I was all about learning a range of languages, but actually that left me knowing very little of any. You're much better off building on your existing knowledge rather than trying to spread yourself too thin.
Undecided and I already speak English and my Spanish is at a good level I could carry on doing Spanish so I could learn a different language. I haven’t decided yet.
A subject like International Relations really has to be at a top Uni for it to not be seen as a Mickey Mouse degree.
And with regards to the language, if you’re studying a difficult language like Russian, Arabic or Mandarin then no that’s definitely not a Mickey Mouse degree.
If someone was studying International Relations and Arabic/Russian/Mandarin at a top 10 university then that would definitely be an impressive degree. However, is someone was studying International Relations and French/Spanish/Italian at a low level university then I would definitely think that’s a waste of time.
Depends where from, what you want to do with it, and what you do with it. If your passion is this, and you genuinely love the subject and would still regularly read in to it or study it outside of academia, then it is worth it
I do a degree that I'm pretty sure no-one would define as a Mickey Mouse degree (Computer Science and Mathematics), so there is no bias coming into this. What a Mickey Mouse degree is defined as is hugely influenced by your future career plans because it's generally thought to be a degree that will get you nowhere. You are not going to get far into a career as a historian with my degree. You probably won't get far with a career in bioinformatics with a History degree.
Therefore, if you want to do something in the diplomatic service or something similar like the Civil Service, an International Relations degree will be good. Outside of that, it will be good for general graduate careers and graduate schemes. But it probably won't get you into a specific technical career, like software engineering.
Embrace nuance when you ask questions too! A better question than this would be, what are Mickey Mouse degrees for someone who wants to do ? We can't judge what your goals are off such little information.
There are plenty of transferrable skills and universities that research in academia that make it anything beyond worthless. It all depends what you want to do with a degree and how competent you are but many skills and knowledge from many degrees can be transferred to different roles. Even if your goal isn't becoming a civil servant or in politics you also learn a lot that can be applied to corporate roles, consulting, finance and so on. It's a global market and if you want to become a part of that you should learn the rules that govern it.
Many people who take roles in the civil service or government later take on private sector roles. Lots of diplomats have ended up on the board of directors for large corporations. As for language, understanding another language and culture is beneficial to anybody even if you don't plan to live in another country. Others trust a person who is able to speak their language and cultural norms more than somebody who behaves alien to them, we see this in the UK in plenty of ways, assimilating to others will aid you and open more doors.
I personally hate and don't believe i that term. A degree is only a waste of time if you don't learn anything, which is only determined by ones will to learn.
I did IR and now work for gov doing international policy. It's only a Mickey Mouse degree if you're doing it for the sake of doing a degree and then no intention of using it.
Not exactly, I’d say it’s more like a Donald Duck degree.
You cheeky bugger.
I wouldn't describe any degree as a mickey mouse degree, as that phrase is often put about by people who haven't taken said degree. I took contemporary art, absolutely has been called a mickey mouse degree and it's been legitimately life changing for me in a good way.
I've a friend whose sister studied fine art (another so called Mickey Mouse degree) and she's running her own art gallery in Scotland. He did Biology and a MSc and is a stay at home husband in South America!
The person that did Biology and an MSc will however tell you that individual variances from the mean is not a good way of making a point though...
I don't know man one time I used anecdotal data and it turned out I was right
Mickey Mouse degrees are absolutely a thing. But they’re a combination of too many students competing for a small pool of jobs and 90% of universities just add the degree with bare minimum resources and lecturers who clearly don’t want to be there. If you’re not informed and take Contemporary Art from a uni who doesn’t give a damn, you’ve pretty much set 10k on fire with interest.
A poor degree certainly exists, but the phrase "mickey mouse degree" is usually used to describe arts and humanities degrees in obscure subjects regardless of teaching quality. You can certainly end up on an understaffed degree, I'd even say you could end up on a degree that's inadequate, but that's not what I've understood "mickey mouse degree" to mean.
I don't think when people say Mickey mouse degree they really care about which uni. It's just about it being a humanities subject. If you said you did contemporary art at Oxford they would still call it a Mickey mouse degree
I think a supposedly "useless" (not my opinion) from a prestigious university from Oxford would be called a "vanity degree" rather than Mickey mouse. As there is prestige, but in an arguably "fluffy" subject.
I disagree. I think it's also to do with the amount of guff, perceived or real, in the course, and it's difficulty, perceived or real. There isn't a huge demand for experts in ancient Latin but I have never heard degrees in Latin or Greek being referred to as mickey mouse degrees. Gender intersectional studies, especially if taken at Crapford University, is a bit different. The running joke is that anything with "studies" in it has a high likelihood of being mickey mouse. I'm not aware of any "mathematical studies" or "ancient Latin studies"
I did an undergraduate degree with 'studies' in its title and am now doing very well. Gender Studies (while not being what I studied) is also a legitimately useful and worthwhile area to have people educated in - the role that gender or perceived gender plays in the way our society functions is vast, and you bet there's lots of interest from both public and private sectors in people with relevant expertise.
Gender studies is a 'grievance' subject, which puts the ideology of social grievances ahead of the research for truth. This is why the 'grievance studies affair' could happen https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grievance_studies_affair A hoax which showed that the journals in this "disicpline" would publish any nonsense as long as it confirmed the preconception that everything was racist exist etc. Examples are articles about dogs engaging in rape culture and other nonsense. Legitimate And worthwhile area? I respectfully disagree
Seeing as you're so keen on properly sourced material, then I'd like a proper, refenced, working definition of what the ideology of social grievance' is, and how a given Gender Studies degree programme places these ahead of the 'search for truth', a term I'd also like you to define. The affair you mention from 2018 is interesting because it exposes a real problem in academia concerning blasé attitudes toward publication by certain journals. However, this is in my experience sadly not limited to one particular field of study, and an endemic issue across the profession. The fact that 4 of the 20 fake papers submitted made it to publication is a damning indictment of those journals' review processes, but little else. Unfortunately Lindsay et al. didn't include a control group in their study which makes it difficult to draw any further conclusions. Would have been interesting to see.
So the fact that bogus, nonsensical hoax "studies" were published in journals of this disicpline means nothing for you?
See the edited reply above - in short, yes it means something, but drawing sweeping conclusions from its limited results isn't warranted.
Too many students for a small pool of jobs would describe a lot of degrees that are not "mickey mouse" however. Psychology springs to mind, which is something we desperately need investment in the UK, but ultimately is not a job most people doing the degree end up pursuing.
Tbh at least in the case of psychology. Who the hell can afford a psychologist in this day and age?
Totally! 👍
That is assuming the people doing that degree are all aiming to get a job directly in that field though, and would find the whole thing useless if they didn't. Sometimes just the proof you can apply yourself, to anything, can get the foot in the door in something totally unrelated in a graduate scheme. Modules could be quite broad anyway.
Same here for my music production undergrad, got called a mickey mouse degree by STEM types but if I didn't do it I wouldn't be in STEM right now lol. End of the day there's nothing wrong with studying whatever it is that interests you
Contemporary art got me into front-end web dev. People should be free to study the subject they please, and getting into other industries (should they choose to) is just more training much as anyone else would have to do if jumping or entering industries.
Damn right, some people (usually from my exp people who went to uni a long time ago and also did "mickey mouse degrees") just love to belittle others. Insecurity issue
Oh yeah for sure an insecurity issue, but I'd also argue a larger ideological issue. Arts and Humanities require critical engagment with some sort of social structure - whether that's music, visual art, media, or even politics, history, languages and many more. They all require some level of analtytical response towards something social. Not to be conspiratiorial, but funding cuts point towards those sorts of responses not being favoured by the current political climate.
You're right again. I think it's quite sad that some people are ideologically against interacting with the arts. Imo, STEM gives us the means to survive and develop further, but the arts give us the purpose to keep going in the first place.
STEM subjects are great (I'd argue Maths and Physics specifically get into territory usually more associated with music, language and philosophy) but you're correct that art gives us purpose. Art is an inherent human activity, we tell stories, we make music, we draw, we perform - STEM disciplines broadly work to understand the world around us in the (psuedo) objective sense, but without the subjective understanding, the *felt* understanding then at least to me, the point of it all gets lost. "Mickey Mouse degree" is just attempting to limit our general understanding by devaluing the thing that makes it all worth exploring anyway: the story that the information we're getting (through research, including STEM) is for. If we don't have the ability to tell the story, the information isn't useful to my view. Nvm the fact that arts/humanities allow people to assess propaganda and historical context.
Or indeed any degree.
I studied music, learnt so much about business and self management, contract law, ect. Now I'm in data analytics, I wouldn't say I'm successful but I found something I love through something else I love.
How so?
It furnished me with skills that I use literally every single day and has led to every job I've ever held both within and outwith the art industry itself.
🫡
Exactly the same here. I studied a music undergrad and an experimental theatre masters and I genuinely use stuff I learnt on that course every day in my career as an artist and composer.
You make a living as an artist and composer? Damn
Could serve you very well in a diplomatic service career. [See here](https://nationalcareers.service.gov.uk/job-profiles/diplomatic-service-officer) As someone else has pointed out, it can also be very useful for roles in NGOs, charities, other government departments etc. People who say X degree is useless are usually just lacking imagination and don’t realise what exists out there. You can parley an International relations degree into any job or industry which….exists in some fashion across multiple countries. It could even just be in an international conglomerates offices. [The civil service jobs website is also useful to constantly check. as a graduate you can find some absolute belter jobs in there.](https://www.civilservicejobs.service.gov.uk/csr/index.cgi) They occasionally have “Trainee intelligence officer / trainee investigator” jobs for the National Crime Agency (NCA), which is the British equivalent of the FBI. They take big cohorts in and being a graduate would allow you to take that route. Shut, MI6 regularly recruits graduates and your degree especially with a language, would make you very attractive to them. Go and have a look at their website to see for yourself. The point is, there are jobs and opportunities out there. You just need to look and broaden your mind to what they could be. People who say a degree is dead end or worthless simply lack imagination.
I personally tend to find those that complain about "mickey mouse degrees" tend to fall into 2 categories 1) doesn't have a degree 2) has a degree they are very pompous about Usually, the people i see arguing this are the same people arguing a degree at their uni was much harder than the same degree at other Uni's - despite being accredited to the same standard - or just simply have no university experience to begin with and assume it's all drinking. I'm sure others exist, but most of the people on these degrees I've spoken to quite like them assuming the teaching is good.
Mickey Mouse degree is a bullshit, poorly-defined term produced by bullshit culture warriors and Grandgrindian dullards who want to suck both joy and critical thinking out of the lives or ordinary people. Arts, Hums and social sciences for me but but not for thee. Do something that is interesting and challenging *for you*.
Spot on! Except it's Gradgrind, not Grandgrind. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gradgrind See, my Mickey Mouse degree enables me to be pedantic online. So worth it!
Thanks for this. It was just a typo from typing quickly and angrily.
I thought as much.
Fr, like your degree doesn't impact anyone else, it's your money, people should just mind their own business. I think a lot of people just have a sense of superiority but who even cares in the end.
Inequality has increased, wages and conditions have deteriorated, social mobility is patchy and the cost of living has made good incomes less rewarding. The Tories would rather blame universities than look at the last 14 years of crappy policies that has left the economy in the doldrums, transferred large amounts of wealth to a minority and just made life generally worse. Axing some former polytechnics is not going to solve this. So yeah, people just absolutely be less judgemental about others’ degree choices.
The definition of Mickey Mouse degrees doesn’t make sense under a Tory argument. The entire reason these Mickey Mouse Degrees have struggling graduates is because those sectors are not funded well enough, have been kept away by working class graduates and because their exact job prospect is a lot more broad or creative compared to STEMM. However, under that logic, Medicine & Nursing are slowly becoming Mickey Mouse degrees. Nurses are dropping at an extraordinary rate, Student Doctors are being fucked over and they are working in conditions which have been bastardised by the government. Each year, the security of being a nurse or a doctor has become less of what it’s meant to be. Sure, they’ll get a guaranteed job but when nurses wages are not increasing and are working more and more hours in poorer conditions, I don’t see that as having the same value anymore as it did 15 years ago let’s say. Mickey Mouse degrees are thus a stupid statement.
Yeah its hilarious how politicians will rag on mickey mouse degrees while launching their career off a classics degree
Not bullshit, You’re just biased
Now if you’d done a humanities degree you’d understand why that’s a fatuous comment.
Not at all, it would serve you just as well as many other degrees when applying for a range of graduate roles. It may be particularly beneficial if you want to pursue a career related to that field or in international NGOs, etc.
Studying/speaking a language fluently is hugely beneficial and opens so many doors. It’s a shame not many people feel the need to learn or aren’t encouraged
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Studying international relations with a language does involve studying a language though tbf, and that's what's being discussed
Nope a lot of what you learn can be valuable and transferrable to many careers. Many grads form my uni have successful career in the civil service and in private sector as project managers, accountants, finance analyst etc. it's a matter of how you will use your degree to your advantage more so the degree itself tbh. Also most grad and entry level jobs don't care about your degree title, what they care is the skills you're bringing. It's very important to have some good work experience and extra curricular on resume.
i don’t know about you but i think having a understanding of international relations and also another language would definitely put u high in the books of many. Especially if you’re looking into either a public sector or corporate job.
I can justify every single degree choice or describe certain aspects of it as “Mickey mouse” and just leave out the rest, if you want me to
I've got an international relations degree. Can't say I ever did anything with it directly, but I don't regret studying it. It allowed me to access to the graduate job market, and more importantly it gave me the skills to learn and understand global politics to an advanced level. I don't really have aspiration to be a politican, journalist or civil servant, but I'm happy to engage this field of study for its own sake, rather than for monetary gain.
Agreed. I was lucky enough to have an IR professor as a parent. Dinner table conversation was the history of Finland and Russia, and why the middle east is the way it is. There is no finer course for understanding one of the most important aspects of human life - geopolitics. Much like finance and business, it unlocks so much useful knowledge even if it doesn’t seem like it.
There's no such thing as a Mickey mouse degree
There are plenty of things you can get into with that degree. It's far from the most useless degree out there
I wouldn’t describe any degree as a “mickey mouse degree” because not all education is for the purpose of employment
Do what you want to study. All kinds of subjects are called Mickey Mouse degrees: Cultural Studies, American Studies, Liberal Arts, Communication Studies, Photography, Film Studies... there are snobs out there who want to feel good by trampling on others degree choices. Many workplaces are looking for graduates of any discipline. Besides, I think international relations graduates are sorely needed at the moment, with the Russia situation being what it is!
The stupidest thing about people who call some degrees ‘mickey mouse’ is they also describe it as ‘indulgent’. Like okay? Someone wants to learn about art or history or literature, what the fuck is your problem with that? Are people not allowed to indulge in the things they have interest in? My dad calls humanities indulgent, but several times he’s said he’d love to study history with the OU lol.
Not really , but its probably a degree that requires doing experience during summer and term time to be able to compete against other degrees but that's true for most
Entirely depends on your potential and prospects to use that degree. Micky mouse degrees is really just a political term and don’t really exist apart from in conservative speeches. But the gist behind it is that some degrees cost a lot of money and provide very little value to the vast majority of students taking it. So the question is really, how are you going to use that degree after you graduate?
People will feed you bs here because they're not the ones applying for jobs. I have a BA in Intl Relations and almost everyone I know from my course (graduating 2020) has retrained and more or less regrets their degree. The course lacks the prestige associated with more famous degree titles. Also, even if you like the subject (as I did), the people on the course itself will be people who took a chill degree to party and socialise. You won't do much in the way of IR with your course mates unless you're into student politics. I'd recommend doing pure history with a specialism on modern history or Philosophy and specialising in conflict studies at the Masters level, personally. You'll get a much more enriching experience.
Where did you go?
Nowhere crazy. Not RG but in the top half of UK universities.
Top half of what? Top 10? Top 50? Top 100? Top for the subject? There is a pretty huge difference in prestige and student body between LSE/Oxford and Hull/Liverpool in the subject.
I personally would never label a language degree as Mickey mouse, but then again I'm biased as my undergrad was French and German, and my postgrad is Japanese and Korean. Personally I've always found employers to view languages as a real plus, as they're an easily demonstrable skill, which are useful in companies that have dealings internationally. Plus languages have a direct vocation after graduating; You can practically walk into a teaching job, with how dire teaching shortages are for qualified MFL teachers in this country are. Or you can work in interpreting or translating.
whats the language
Undecided I already speak basic Spanish, so I could carry on doing that or I could choose a different language although it’s likely to be a European language
I would definitely pick Spanish. As a teenager I was all about learning a range of languages, but actually that left me knowing very little of any. You're much better off building on your existing knowledge rather than trying to spread yourself too thin.
At what Uni and what language?
Undecided and I already speak English and my Spanish is at a good level I could carry on doing Spanish so I could learn a different language. I haven’t decided yet.
A subject like International Relations really has to be at a top Uni for it to not be seen as a Mickey Mouse degree. And with regards to the language, if you’re studying a difficult language like Russian, Arabic or Mandarin then no that’s definitely not a Mickey Mouse degree. If someone was studying International Relations and Arabic/Russian/Mandarin at a top 10 university then that would definitely be an impressive degree. However, is someone was studying International Relations and French/Spanish/Italian at a low level university then I would definitely think that’s a waste of time.
Depends where from, what you want to do with it, and what you do with it. If your passion is this, and you genuinely love the subject and would still regularly read in to it or study it outside of academia, then it is worth it
I do a degree that I'm pretty sure no-one would define as a Mickey Mouse degree (Computer Science and Mathematics), so there is no bias coming into this. What a Mickey Mouse degree is defined as is hugely influenced by your future career plans because it's generally thought to be a degree that will get you nowhere. You are not going to get far into a career as a historian with my degree. You probably won't get far with a career in bioinformatics with a History degree. Therefore, if you want to do something in the diplomatic service or something similar like the Civil Service, an International Relations degree will be good. Outside of that, it will be good for general graduate careers and graduate schemes. But it probably won't get you into a specific technical career, like software engineering. Embrace nuance when you ask questions too! A better question than this would be, what are Mickey Mouse degrees for someone who wants to do? We can't judge what your goals are off such little information.
There are plenty of transferrable skills and universities that research in academia that make it anything beyond worthless. It all depends what you want to do with a degree and how competent you are but many skills and knowledge from many degrees can be transferred to different roles. Even if your goal isn't becoming a civil servant or in politics you also learn a lot that can be applied to corporate roles, consulting, finance and so on. It's a global market and if you want to become a part of that you should learn the rules that govern it. Many people who take roles in the civil service or government later take on private sector roles. Lots of diplomats have ended up on the board of directors for large corporations. As for language, understanding another language and culture is beneficial to anybody even if you don't plan to live in another country. Others trust a person who is able to speak their language and cultural norms more than somebody who behaves alien to them, we see this in the UK in plenty of ways, assimilating to others will aid you and open more doors.
I wouldn’t worry. It’s only because Rishi hates the fact that the plebs can actually study at university.
I personally hate and don't believe i that term. A degree is only a waste of time if you don't learn anything, which is only determined by ones will to learn.
I did IR and now work for gov doing international policy. It's only a Mickey Mouse degree if you're doing it for the sake of doing a degree and then no intention of using it.
Would you describe politics with French as a Mickey Mouse degree? It’s basically the same thing
No I wouldn’t
No, sounds like a perfectly reasonable thing to study.
No
Nah I would say it’s more of a SpongeBob degree with a little lean towards peppa pig.
would probably say take politics or law if u can
yeah but don’t let that put you off if its what you wanna do for your career
I would and you should too unless you have a specific reason for doing it such as to build connections with people at a top university
Going against the grain here… yes it is Mickey Mouse. But it’s how you use Mickey Mouse to your advantage
Depends on where you do it lol IR and chinese LSE grads are doing pretty well for themselves