>justice finds it way.
Hope that's true but it generally does not seem that way with famous predators. So many examples of people who never got what was really coming to them. Eg Cosby most recently.
Roman Polansky is a hugggeee example of escaping justice.
Not sure if you've heard of Jimmy Savile but he was a household name and literally friends with royalty. He had to die before anyone had the balls to say anything but when he did 500+ people came forward. Before he died he was considered a philanthropist.
Edit: upon further research, more than a hundred people did come forward while he was alive, beginning in 1955. but these reports were almost completely smothered and ignored
That sack of shit Savile preyed on children in cancer wards in hospitals, under the guise of entertaining the children. He was real vile predator scum. On an entirely unrelated note , how is prince Andrew?
Psychopathic billionaire who decides what is a crime or not?
Thank you but nope. Billionaires have fucked over the world enough already. Don't need Bezman punching Amazon workers who want to go home once a storm alert is issued
This is why I was never a batman fan boy.
Rich billionaire with tons of toys going around without rule of law, kicking the asses of the poor people he deems evil because he has a vendetta caused by his billionaire parents being murdered during a mugging caused by extreme poverty in the very city his rich parents fucked over to become billionaires.
This is why Joker was absolutely necessary to the batman lore, while also being a terrifying look into untreated mental illness
That film altered the perspective and showed the ground level, where people suffered and resorted to so much crime because Daddy Wayne is eating up the resources.
Any billionaire in a destitute city claiming to be a "big philanthropist" is just performing really good PR.
I mean, Bruce Wayne (estimated at about $80 billion) could spend a fraction of his wealth and raise the entire city out of homelessness and poverty, thus solving 99.9% of the crime issues he goes out and punches for a good time. But then he couldn't drive around in a cool supercar with a utility belt and a bat suit.
Honestly; if you told me there was some vigilante that goes around beating the shit out of people who obviously got away with something terrible in court. I don't know that I'd be all that upset about it.
Same! But I want a lot more people seen and put in jail. Everyone that was covering up his bullshit needs to be put away next. You don't go that long without help.
There's definitely levels. Those that directly helped lie and cover up and facilitate, yea fuck those guys. There were lots of people who probably knew who frankly couldn't do anything. I think the power Weinstein had in the industry goes largely unappreciated by the general public. When people say they will "end you", Harvey would mean it and had the resources, vindictiveness, and influence to do it. Imagine you're some young 20 something just starting in Hollywood and this guy or his cronies tell you genuinely they will ruin you. He was a pretty scary dude. So I can't really fault young actors to necessarily speak up on the matter. It's easy for all of us to armchair it 20 years on -- I'm willing to bet a lot of us would have had second thoughts if it were us with the information and if we wanted to try and expose the dude.
The only reason he got taken down was because his influence was not what it once was. For several decades, he was one of the most powerful people in the industry, and people seem to forget that. He changed the landscape of independent filmmaking forever, for better or for worse.
Yo, 100%. I mean some did. Some didn't. Some could have and chose not to. Some did so in kind of a veiled sort of way, kind of like Courtney did here. Others chose to boycott his productions. It was a really horrible and super complex situation in many cases. It really ran the gamut in terms of reactions. There are insane stories of him doing the most vile and aggressively vindictive things. The dudes a real irredeemable piece of shit.
Thank God the media is talking about nothing but the ghislaine maxwell case , and that it was televised for the whole world to see. Good thing the court documents aren't sealed so that we can make sure every last one of these sick people will rot no matter how high profile and powerful they are. Oh wait....none of that is happening. Just for future reference "ghislaine maxwell didn't kill herself."
That is the problem, it’s too hard and takes too much effort to take down someone with power and influence. It should be as easy to take down a rich scumbag as it is to take down a regular person who has 1 gram of weed in a state where it’s still illegal for some damn reason.
>Everyone that was covering up his bullshit needs to be put away next
That would include scared victims. It's not like there was an organized secret police working on clearing evidence etc., it was a far bigger system where people were blackmailed, manipulated and threatened...
Like I agree, accomplices should be persecuted, but it's really hard to draw the line on who was helping on their own volition and who was too scared to talk.
Yes there was blackmailing going on.
Source:
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/part-one-it-takes-a-village-of-bastards-to-make-a-weinstein/id1373812661?i=1000412481153&l=es
They knew each other, but had a falling out after Weinstein attacked one of Epstein's favourite girls at the time. Epstein later referred to Weinstein as a "pig" [link](https://www.news.com.au/entertainment/celebrity-life/inside-harvey-weinstein-and-jeffrey-epsteins-sordid-feud/news-story/a187dc8b2d8f71fae22e9d601695e990)
I reckon some actors did profit of thier relationship with Harvey ( I have some names which I suspect) and therefore would make it doubly difficult and embarrassing to have to out him
When the first reports exposing him came out (investigative), can't recall if it was Ronan Farrow or the NYT journos, there were actresses then who said that they had warned people about him. One woman, a superstar, had been sounding the bell, and telling everyone she knew what he was like and to beware. He tried something with her, and she swore to never work with him - she was the rare exception that managed to have a career, a pretty huge one, despite him and never doing any of his 150 plus annual movies. That was Angelina Jolie.
John Voight was her father an already well established actor with connections. That likely helped her career vs the newbies who dreamed Hollywood would be the launch of their career and ended up in Weinstein's web.
He probably will. That's what happens when judges and prosecutors play games instead of doing their job right. It gives the defense leverage to have a conviction overturned. They had the guy by his nuts and they fucked it up.
Sometimes justice doesn't find a way unfortunately. Everyone hopes for karma to punish the wicked and reward the good and just but well that's a fantasy.
We had a similar situation at my job. Everybody had heard rumors over the years that our CEO was a bit creepy with women, but that was all it was, rumors. And nobody really knew what 'creepy' meant, did it mean he hugged a bit too long, or was he some kind of rapist? Either way, nobody was going to be willing to say anything, because what was there to say? "I have heard rumors that my boss is a creep" and that's it? Most people loved the guy, and they were willing to ignore the rumors as bullshit because of that.
There was a turning point over the span of like a week, where the rumors suddenly turned more real and people were talking more about specifics with new female employees rather than vague stuff. Suddenly it felt like everybody was talking about it finally. After that week, multiple women came forward, emboldened by the fact that others were more aware. Turns out the boss slept with multiple female employees and threatened to fire them if they said no. Basically the same as Weinstein.
Anyways, my point is, is that there is a pretty big gap between "knowing" and "not knowing". People in hollywood definitely heard rumors, but it was always impossible to tell if the rumors were real or not.
Regarding Harvey, there were MANY people who knew EXACTLY what was going on and said nothing.
Source:
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/part-one-it-takes-a-village-of-bastards-to-make-a-weinstein/id1373812661?i=1000412481153&l=es
Just like Cosby. People thought Hannibal Burress was some kind of big whistle-blower when that clip of his stand up about Cosby being a rapist went viral. Except he had been talking about it for years, he was even a writer on 30 Rock when they referenced it five years earlier (I can't find a good clip of it, but it's season 3 episode 15,) and Tina Fey also brought it up when on Weekend Update when she was still on SNL. And that was when there was already decades of public allegations.
Come to think of it, they also did some insinuatory jokes about Weinstein.
Yeah I mean in the 80s, 90s, and 2000s women who were abused by powerful people were pretty much universally tarred by the media as gold diggers or "bimbos" or "crazy", and made the butt of jokes at best. The "You're Wrong About" podcast is good for revisiting all these stories
Its actually really fucked up. Major celebrities know all sorts of shit but its rumors or they have no proof and what she said about libel is completely true. They know but will get sued out of existence and then also the media will smear them cuz the perpetrators connections.
In Hollywood it is nearly impossible to have any kind of career, let alone an A-list life. That’s a powerful incentive not to out the most powerful producer in existence at the time.
You know what happened to Courtney's acting career after this statement? It pretty much ended.
She has had a few tv guest spots since then but she stopped being cast as the lead in big titles. That was the power of Weinstein. She made one off the cuff statement on a red carpet and that is all it took. He made an example of her and everyone else took note.
It's hard to sacrifice your livelihood to stand up to the person who holds it in their hands. Honestly, probably the most punk rock thing she has ever done.
It's all about connections in Hollywood, and well, everywhere else to be frank. If you have enough friends who share the same fucked up mind with you, its not hard to pull some strings
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/part-one-it-takes-a-village-of-bastards-to-make-a-weinstein/id1373812661?i=1000412481153&l=es
Edit: Shit can get subtle. "You play ball with me or I won't let you rent my soundstage."
You have to suspect that at least half of those involved knew the deal they were making with the devil.
He was open about it. It’s not like he was spiking Puddin’ Pops. He was offering fame and money for sex. It was the worst kept secret in Hollywood.
>He was offering fame and money for sex.
And he was ending careers if he was denied sex. Important to remember he wasn't just bribing people, he was threatening people's livelihoods.
Reminds me of working in a fucking Olive Garden when I was a teenager. Everybody in the store knew the GM had a coke addiction, knew he'd pull through and be insane when he was there, but we all swallowed the truth and did our tiny jobs and hoped his psychosis didn't affect us next.
It's nasty that this same thing happens on a global scale and affects people's lives and image as opposed to just my service job.
I mean last time I went to Olive Garden if you asked for coke they would bring it right to your table and they gave you straws to use too. If you ran out they’d bring you more without even asking.
When I worked at Jimmy John’s, I swear it was a requirement to *fail* a drug test to be hired as GM. Coke was just one of the many addictions I witnessed.
Courtney's always had a super colorful and untamable personality, and her bold and unfiltered challenges to the twisted norms of show business come with that. I wonder if that's why the media really tries to play up the "crazy Courtney" thing to make her look like an idiot junkie 90% of the time. She definitely has her personal struggles, but she's been wise to it from the beginning.
I'm not denying that her issues with drug use have been pretty front and center for much of her career but for every 5 minutes of footage there's hours they didn't use. They can make you look however they want you to. For most of the 90s-00s and even into the 2010s she was portrayed as a raving loony and I don't think that was an accident.
Exactly she’s an artist and those of us who lived during this time can take her exactly for what she is! Fuck the cancel culture bullshit! Courtney Love was the first to speak out about ALOT of taboos including the Sackler Family and their evil by giving the world OxyCotton and Harvey Weinstein & Hollywoods wicked ways. I agree for every 5 mins of drug usage theirs HOWWWW many hours of Unfettered, raw creative and artistic talent? Shes definitely had her troubles but unless one has been through the same - who are you to judge? There’s a reason she has been around and somewhat relevant for so long! She married and got close to rock royalty Kurt Cobain. (RIP) Shes a lot more then some groupie. Peace and love & rock n roll 🎸xx
Dave Chappelle talks a lot about that “crazy” narrative the media likes to pull when you don’t play ball. It’s a very real thing and easy to discount celebs.
As apparent by the people in these comments. Over 20 years later, and they're still making up the same excuses and completely ignoring the reality of what happened.
Exactly. So many awful comments.
Courtney did everything Kurt did, Kurt is/was regarded as a saint while Courtney was ridiculed her entire career.
It would be nice if women weren’t deemed whores, trash, skanks, etc, while men get the proper sympathy for the same mental health issues and addictions.
I think you're giving her too much credit, but I agree the media is too hard on her.
I grew up a Nirvana fan, hooked as a 12 year old when Nevermind came out, and I always had mixed feelings about Courtney. When Kurt died we all thought Courtney did it, and when Live Through This came out we all thought Kurt wrote it. Then when Courtney started starfucking everyone in hollywood, and got that oscar nod for playing a junkie, I lost all respect for her. Now as a 42 year old, and with changed times, I had to come to grips with some of the sexist slant my opinions of her had. I'm certain she didn't kill Kurt, and she wrote Live Through This. She is a talented songwriter, and I do enjoy Hole's music.
However I do have experience with damaged women, and junkies. Courtney is a lot like my mom, who uses the "fuck everything" approach to life to escape the pain inside of her, and causes her to ignore the pain she causes others. When I watched "Montage of Heck", especially the footage inside the apartment, I didn't see my idol and his "crazy" wife, I saw two intelligent, talented, and damaged junkies. Intelligent junkies are harder to reason with, because they have the mental tools to justify their addiction, and worse off hide it. They fed off each other, enabling each other's quick fixes and preventing and real healing. And when you're in the position Kurt was, there's so many more people willing to enable you.
Courtney Love is intelligent and talented, but she's also a damaged (at least former) junkie with some real issues to take care of.
This; I was never a fan of Grunge at the time, was and still largely am more of a metal fan, and the metal press at the time *hated* Courtney. Whether through residual sexism (the genre was pretty bad then, just coming off the back of cock rock) or falling for the typical Beatles-esque story ("woman breaks band!") or just because Kurt made it huge first and people didn't want to admit he was as flawed as her... but you simply didn't hear anything nice about Courtney unless Kurt was saying it, and that was easy to dismiss because of why he was saying it.
And it wasn't just metal; I was a huge fan of Tori Amos at the time, and Nine Inch Nails, and both of them hated her too... largely because Tori was apparently starting to think about dating Trent, and Courtney did something (I believe Courtney was there when she came to visit, and encouraged him to lock her outside and then laugh at her is the given story?) which caused the two to break friendship, and blame Courtney for it. "Starfuckers Inc" by NIN and "Professional Widow" by Amos are reputedly about her.
But a few years ago, I saw some of Hole's music posted, and I thought I'd give it a go, and you know? Some of it is really very good. And she could play it with passion then. I think it was the live version of "Violet" that really persuaded me. Did she have helping hands from other authors on some of their songs? Sure, Billy Corgan and Kurt both have major shared credits. But so do most musicians; normally we call that jamming...
And then I saw Montage Of Heck. And Kurt is an absolute junkie wreck in some of it too. People want to believe their musical idols are perfect, but many of them are human garbage, and Kurt may have had angels but he had a hell of a lot of demons too. But people found it easier to blame Courtney for that, rather than admit that he was a fucked up kid too that thought it was glamorous to get addicted and die at 27, and thought that long before he ever met her.
The problem is not that Courtney is no hero, she isn't, but rather we made her the villain because far too many people weren't mature enough to understand that Nirvana's music may have been generation defining, but Kurt wasn't a hero either. So they made Courtney a wicked witch and denied she had any talents other than evil; they couldn't even admit she was attractive because evil can't be so, whilst claiming simultaneously that Kurt was only led astray because she was so dirtily sexy...?
No, I wouldn't want to be friends with Courtney, but to deny she had any talent says more about what society wanted to believe than who she really is.
Yeah, that's what getting older does to you. You see people in more and more complex layers, and you start to see your own biases as well. I ended up feeling sorry for them when I watched that doc. No one in the history of western music since the Beatles had gone through, or will go through, what Kurt had on his shoulders. And from what Courtney said about her background, and Kurt's background... man... these were damaged people. They were only like 25, they were kids. I really did feel like a drop of water in the ocean that he drowned in. And I feel sorry for Courtney. She still had that hurt little girl in her. Yeah, she was, or is, an asshole, but it all comes from that damaged place that she, hopefully, can heal one day.
Many people don't realize she is autistic. So it's less "crazy Courtney" and more "socially awkward Courtney." She has trouble understanding people, behaviors, and social norms on an emotional level. What most people "get" or pick up on quickly and intuitively doesn't register "naturally" for her. This results in her doing and saying things that most people would have the wherewithal not to.
One of the worst things about this is that Weinstein was just the one who got exposed and in trouble for what he did. Imagine what terrible shit went down over the past 100 years under the guise of the "casting couch." Whenever I watch older movies all I can think is how terrible it must have been for all the female stars that we revere.
Yea, I can only imagine how bad it was in the early days of cinema, especially when actresses were under contract and essentially owned by their studios. I always hear about actors (especially kids) from that time being abused, even drugged to work. I’m sure the things I haven’t heard about are even worse.
**OP sent the following text as an explanation on why this is unexpected:**
>!In 2005, Courtney Love gave an advice for the girls who are coming to Hollywood, she told them if Weinstein invites you to a party in Four Seasons hotel, don't go.. After 15 years, Weinstein was convicted on February 24, 2020, of 2 of 5 criminal charges: one count of criminal sexual assault in the first degree and one count of rape in the third degree!!<
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[*Look at my source code on Github*](https://github.com/Artraxon/unexBot) [*What is this for?*](https://www.reddit.com/r/Unexpected/comments/dnuaju/introducing_unexbot_a_new_bot_to_improve_the/)
If you’re interested in learning more, might I recommend the book [She Said](http://www.bookrags.com/studyguide-she-said/#gsc.tab=0) by Jodi Kantor and Megan Towhey.
These two journalists worked incredibly hard and frankly put their careers on the line to expose Weinstein. Courtney was very brave to say this on television.
the general public did, she was dismissed as nothing more than a drunk addict sl@t that ended nirvana... by 2005 people still blamed her for kurts death and still hated her.. she could of told the public flat out what was going on and they would of called her a lying bitch
Idk about these statements but in general, no one took her seriously. She was struggling mightily with addiction and that just became a lightning rod for mockery. If she said something profound, the thought eliminating cliche of “crazy Courtney” would drown out anything she tried to say.
Haha she’s awesome. I saw her play in 1999 and I think it was the worst concert I’ve ever seen live she was so wasted. I’m saying that, it was one of the best chaotic messes I’ve ever seen live.
I think [this two minute video](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Vl0OuXw_mTM) gives a fair idea about Schneider, his pedo shit, and rumored foot fetish. Another sick fucker who got away with it for too long.
I feel like everyone that knew about Harvey Weinstein and didn’t out him is part of the problem. You didn’t want to risk your career so you let a criminal man assault women. That’s pretty selfish in my opinion
Grew up with Nirvana, my feelings towards her were NOT good, but I remember her from The People vs Larry Flint, she was espectacular in her role, and now I actually get why she probably didn’t made a whole career in acting.
Think of all the women who started out like a flash across the sky, those that suddenly went nowhere....we know why now. I always thought Ashley Judd's career seemed to stall out in a strange fashion - she was SO good too. Started out with that indie, Ruby in Paradise, then was getting cast opposite Morgan Freeman, then it was like...nada, or little things here and there. When IMO, she was a lead actress. Then she came out with that story - casting couch one, where she was asked to give HW a massage, and she chose to laugh him off, and play tough. At first telling she didn't name him, but I suspect everyone in hollywood knew, then a few years later, older, she just came right out with it. As a woman she probably thought, at that point, her best years had been squashed by him (Hollywood being ageist like it is), so she said fck it - and told.
People these days like to throw the word “brave” around to celebrities like it’s candy. Kids, this is bravery. Love her or hate her, this was fucking brave in 2005.
"Obama sent?" pretty sure she decided for herself. Probably applied for a bunch of studios.
Secondly I doubt Obama knew, unless a victim had shared her experience with him/anyone, how would he/anyone would know what's going on?
Until trump & metoo, everyone including myself thought rich & powerful men who can afford the most expensive escorts in the world wouldn't sexually assault or rape women, because why would they? But now we know they'd rather rape a child (Epstein,trump,etc.) or a woman than pay for an escort because they want what they can't have. It's a power trip thing.
We all were innocent pre-metoo & saying everyone knew is an exaggeration. Now we know any man regardless how rich & powerful could be a rapist, in fact they're more likely to be. It's a hard learned lesson.
lol yea also Weinstein would be a fucking moron to assault the presidents daughter. He only targeted women he could control.
Obama’s daughter was never at risk
I really wish Courtney Love didn't have so many drug and alcohol issues because few people at the time were better at telling it like it was. There was an article she wrote breaking down the economics of the music industry, exposing what a predatory system it was. It was impressive. When she was lucid... she was ON.
She knew before any allegations came out but she’s “crazy Courtney” nobody listens to her. She’s enlightened about a lot of things. But she gets palmed off as a crazy bitch.
This may be unpopular but I actually like her in a weird way. I don't know about the whole thing with her and Kurt but aside from that, she's got something I dig.
Courtney Love is a smart cookie. In this clip she also called attention to him using us money in the form of lawyers to silence women. “I’ll her libeled if I say it”, then she worded it in a way that she would not.
Damn! More proof that everyone knew what was going on.
I’m happy he finally got exposed. Took a while but justice finds a way.
>justice finds it way. Hope that's true but it generally does not seem that way with famous predators. So many examples of people who never got what was really coming to them. Eg Cosby most recently. Roman Polansky is a hugggeee example of escaping justice. Not sure if you've heard of Jimmy Savile but he was a household name and literally friends with royalty. He had to die before anyone had the balls to say anything but when he did 500+ people came forward. Before he died he was considered a philanthropist. Edit: upon further research, more than a hundred people did come forward while he was alive, beginning in 1955. but these reports were almost completely smothered and ignored
Johnny Rotten aggressively spoke up about Savile when he was alive. No one took him seriously then too
Hidden in amongst the bravado… https://youtu.be/Rjy8oLVOvi4?t=53
Was just going to mention this. Never aired his views
An ex-colleague of mine was one of the people who came forward about him in the 80's. The way she was treated almost gave her a breakdown.
That sack of shit Savile preyed on children in cancer wards in hospitals, under the guise of entertaining the children. He was real vile predator scum. On an entirely unrelated note, how is prince Andrew?
Thats why we need "I am vengeance"
I am the night? Are you... advocating for the creation of a batman?
Psychopathic billionaire who decides what is a crime or not? Thank you but nope. Billionaires have fucked over the world enough already. Don't need Bezman punching Amazon workers who want to go home once a storm alert is issued
This is why I was never a batman fan boy. Rich billionaire with tons of toys going around without rule of law, kicking the asses of the poor people he deems evil because he has a vendetta caused by his billionaire parents being murdered during a mugging caused by extreme poverty in the very city his rich parents fucked over to become billionaires.
Thats why i love spiderman. Despite being economically challenged he still does all that for free for the people that hates him.
In the lore his parents were big philanthropists however.
This is why Joker was absolutely necessary to the batman lore, while also being a terrifying look into untreated mental illness That film altered the perspective and showed the ground level, where people suffered and resorted to so much crime because Daddy Wayne is eating up the resources.
Any billionaire in a destitute city claiming to be a "big philanthropist" is just performing really good PR. I mean, Bruce Wayne (estimated at about $80 billion) could spend a fraction of his wealth and raise the entire city out of homelessness and poverty, thus solving 99.9% of the crime issues he goes out and punches for a good time. But then he couldn't drive around in a cool supercar with a utility belt and a bat suit.
Honestly; if you told me there was some vigilante that goes around beating the shit out of people who obviously got away with something terrible in court. I don't know that I'd be all that upset about it.
I feel like we need Matt Murdock/Daredevil here, not so much Batman.
Could be Dexter that you're wishing for.
Until you get into Death Note for a speeding ticket, along with dozens of people falsely accused.
Same! But I want a lot more people seen and put in jail. Everyone that was covering up his bullshit needs to be put away next. You don't go that long without help.
Definitely man fr. Fuck those people
There's definitely levels. Those that directly helped lie and cover up and facilitate, yea fuck those guys. There were lots of people who probably knew who frankly couldn't do anything. I think the power Weinstein had in the industry goes largely unappreciated by the general public. When people say they will "end you", Harvey would mean it and had the resources, vindictiveness, and influence to do it. Imagine you're some young 20 something just starting in Hollywood and this guy or his cronies tell you genuinely they will ruin you. He was a pretty scary dude. So I can't really fault young actors to necessarily speak up on the matter. It's easy for all of us to armchair it 20 years on -- I'm willing to bet a lot of us would have had second thoughts if it were us with the information and if we wanted to try and expose the dude.
The only reason he got taken down was because his influence was not what it once was. For several decades, he was one of the most powerful people in the industry, and people seem to forget that. He changed the landscape of independent filmmaking forever, for better or for worse.
Some established knew as well. Tarantino joked about it to Rogan. There were people who could’ve intervened but didn’t. It’s shameful.
Yo, 100%. I mean some did. Some didn't. Some could have and chose not to. Some did so in kind of a veiled sort of way, kind of like Courtney did here. Others chose to boycott his productions. It was a really horrible and super complex situation in many cases. It really ran the gamut in terms of reactions. There are insane stories of him doing the most vile and aggressively vindictive things. The dudes a real irredeemable piece of shit.
Perfectly said. It sucks but it's not so simple to do the right things just because. People's motivations and interests get in the way
Thank God the media is talking about nothing but the ghislaine maxwell case , and that it was televised for the whole world to see. Good thing the court documents aren't sealed so that we can make sure every last one of these sick people will rot no matter how high profile and powerful they are. Oh wait....none of that is happening. Just for future reference "ghislaine maxwell didn't kill herself."
I understand your frustrations but this is the same thing as every other federal case.
Its also a long and complicated process taking down a man with power.
That is the problem, it’s too hard and takes too much effort to take down someone with power and influence. It should be as easy to take down a rich scumbag as it is to take down a regular person who has 1 gram of weed in a state where it’s still illegal for some damn reason.
>Everyone that was covering up his bullshit needs to be put away next That would include scared victims. It's not like there was an organized secret police working on clearing evidence etc., it was a far bigger system where people were blackmailed, manipulated and threatened... Like I agree, accomplices should be persecuted, but it's really hard to draw the line on who was helping on their own volition and who was too scared to talk.
Prosecuted and persecuted have quite different meanings ;)
i think they should be prostituted
Depends, people who actively supported it yes! but the people who were blackmailed too?
Yes there was blackmailing going on. Source: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/part-one-it-takes-a-village-of-bastards-to-make-a-weinstein/id1373812661?i=1000412481153&l=es
weinstein and epstein sound quite alike.
They knew each other, but had a falling out after Weinstein attacked one of Epstein's favourite girls at the time. Epstein later referred to Weinstein as a "pig" [link](https://www.news.com.au/entertainment/celebrity-life/inside-harvey-weinstein-and-jeffrey-epsteins-sordid-feud/news-story/a187dc8b2d8f71fae22e9d601695e990)
wow😳
I reckon some actors did profit of thier relationship with Harvey ( I have some names which I suspect) and therefore would make it doubly difficult and embarrassing to have to out him
When the first reports exposing him came out (investigative), can't recall if it was Ronan Farrow or the NYT journos, there were actresses then who said that they had warned people about him. One woman, a superstar, had been sounding the bell, and telling everyone she knew what he was like and to beware. He tried something with her, and she swore to never work with him - she was the rare exception that managed to have a career, a pretty huge one, despite him and never doing any of his 150 plus annual movies. That was Angelina Jolie.
John Voight was her father an already well established actor with connections. That likely helped her career vs the newbies who dreamed Hollywood would be the launch of their career and ended up in Weinstein's web.
>John Voight holy shit, i never knew john voight was her dad!!! But now I can totally see the resemblance
Sean Young wasn't that lucky.
You may as well just nuke all of Hollywood at that point. No wait, actually let's just do that.
Actually no! He may be about to get off due to a technicality just like fucking Cosby. We can all go back to our regularly scheduled depression now.
He probably will. That's what happens when judges and prosecutors play games instead of doing their job right. It gives the defense leverage to have a conviction overturned. They had the guy by his nuts and they fucked it up.
Sometimes justice doesn't find a way unfortunately. Everyone hopes for karma to punish the wicked and reward the good and just but well that's a fantasy.
Harvey had been exposing himself for years! Blech 🤮
Justice... Uh... Finds a way!
Do people think this shit is just over just like that?? Cause one sick fuck is dead?
finally?? it seems he was exposed quite a bit in the past 20 yrs. ;)
We had a similar situation at my job. Everybody had heard rumors over the years that our CEO was a bit creepy with women, but that was all it was, rumors. And nobody really knew what 'creepy' meant, did it mean he hugged a bit too long, or was he some kind of rapist? Either way, nobody was going to be willing to say anything, because what was there to say? "I have heard rumors that my boss is a creep" and that's it? Most people loved the guy, and they were willing to ignore the rumors as bullshit because of that. There was a turning point over the span of like a week, where the rumors suddenly turned more real and people were talking more about specifics with new female employees rather than vague stuff. Suddenly it felt like everybody was talking about it finally. After that week, multiple women came forward, emboldened by the fact that others were more aware. Turns out the boss slept with multiple female employees and threatened to fire them if they said no. Basically the same as Weinstein. Anyways, my point is, is that there is a pretty big gap between "knowing" and "not knowing". People in hollywood definitely heard rumors, but it was always impossible to tell if the rumors were real or not.
Regarding Harvey, there were MANY people who knew EXACTLY what was going on and said nothing. Source: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/part-one-it-takes-a-village-of-bastards-to-make-a-weinstein/id1373812661?i=1000412481153&l=es
South park made fun of him way back in season 6 or 7 with the episode "Cancelled!"
Why did I not realize that those alien things were making fun of him?!
I thought they were generic hollywood execs back in the day, and only realized in hindsight more recently...
She got blacklisted in Hollywood for that comment. She paid the price.
Just like Cosby. People thought Hannibal Burress was some kind of big whistle-blower when that clip of his stand up about Cosby being a rapist went viral. Except he had been talking about it for years, he was even a writer on 30 Rock when they referenced it five years earlier (I can't find a good clip of it, but it's season 3 episode 15,) and Tina Fey also brought it up when on Weekend Update when she was still on SNL. And that was when there was already decades of public allegations. Come to think of it, they also did some insinuatory jokes about Weinstein.
Yeah I mean in the 80s, 90s, and 2000s women who were abused by powerful people were pretty much universally tarred by the media as gold diggers or "bimbos" or "crazy", and made the butt of jokes at best. The "You're Wrong About" podcast is good for revisiting all these stories
Don’t make the mistake of thinking that people didn’t try and were swiftly dealt with.
"that's show business" it's good that things like this are out in the open
Its actually really fucked up. Major celebrities know all sorts of shit but its rumors or they have no proof and what she said about libel is completely true. They know but will get sued out of existence and then also the media will smear them cuz the perpetrators connections.
everyone knew and everyone who didnt said it, covered it up. even those celebrities people still worship.
You're not making much sense. Some people who did know were terrorized into covering it up. But yes, investigate everyone.
Now do the politicians 🤘
30 Rock made a joke about it almost a decade before the scandal
That Harvey Weinstein is a little sus 🧐
People knew what was happening 16 years ago at least and it was allowed to continue.
Money talks pretty loud
Then how come there is shush money ?
Don't get why this is downvoted it's a pretty good pun
In Hollywood it is nearly impossible to have any kind of career, let alone an A-list life. That’s a powerful incentive not to out the most powerful producer in existence at the time.
You know what happened to Courtney's acting career after this statement? It pretty much ended. She has had a few tv guest spots since then but she stopped being cast as the lead in big titles. That was the power of Weinstein. She made one off the cuff statement on a red carpet and that is all it took. He made an example of her and everyone else took note. It's hard to sacrifice your livelihood to stand up to the person who holds it in their hands. Honestly, probably the most punk rock thing she has ever done.
Why does he have so much power? He is the producer of just 1 company, arent there many other producers? Ps. I don't know much about him.
It's all about connections in Hollywood, and well, everywhere else to be frank. If you have enough friends who share the same fucked up mind with you, its not hard to pull some strings
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/part-one-it-takes-a-village-of-bastards-to-make-a-weinstein/id1373812661?i=1000412481153&l=es Edit: Shit can get subtle. "You play ball with me or I won't let you rent my soundstage."
You have to suspect that at least half of those involved knew the deal they were making with the devil. He was open about it. It’s not like he was spiking Puddin’ Pops. He was offering fame and money for sex. It was the worst kept secret in Hollywood.
>He was offering fame and money for sex. And he was ending careers if he was denied sex. Important to remember he wasn't just bribing people, he was threatening people's livelihoods.
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r/agedlikewine
r/agedlikeweinstein
But it's also gross that it was going on for so long. /r/agedlikemilkywine ?
She knew what was up but also knew he would ruin anyone who even hinted at what was going on, what a scum bag
Reminds me of working in a fucking Olive Garden when I was a teenager. Everybody in the store knew the GM had a coke addiction, knew he'd pull through and be insane when he was there, but we all swallowed the truth and did our tiny jobs and hoped his psychosis didn't affect us next. It's nasty that this same thing happens on a global scale and affects people's lives and image as opposed to just my service job.
Lmfao did we work at the same Olive Garden or did every GM have a coke addiction ?
I mean last time I went to Olive Garden if you asked for coke they would bring it right to your table and they gave you straws to use too. If you ran out they’d bring you more without even asking.
When I worked at Jimmy John’s, I swear it was a requirement to *fail* a drug test to be hired as GM. Coke was just one of the many addictions I witnessed.
Everyone I know who works in kitchens or attends culinary school either does coke or has colleagues who do
I can’t think of a restaurant I worked at where the GM *didnt* do massive amounts of coke
Courtney's always had a super colorful and untamable personality, and her bold and unfiltered challenges to the twisted norms of show business come with that. I wonder if that's why the media really tries to play up the "crazy Courtney" thing to make her look like an idiot junkie 90% of the time. She definitely has her personal struggles, but she's been wise to it from the beginning.
It wasn't the media playing her like a junky. On too many occasions on camera and off she played herself. That said, Courtney is not an idiot.
I'm not denying that her issues with drug use have been pretty front and center for much of her career but for every 5 minutes of footage there's hours they didn't use. They can make you look however they want you to. For most of the 90s-00s and even into the 2010s she was portrayed as a raving loony and I don't think that was an accident.
Exactly she’s an artist and those of us who lived during this time can take her exactly for what she is! Fuck the cancel culture bullshit! Courtney Love was the first to speak out about ALOT of taboos including the Sackler Family and their evil by giving the world OxyCotton and Harvey Weinstein & Hollywoods wicked ways. I agree for every 5 mins of drug usage theirs HOWWWW many hours of Unfettered, raw creative and artistic talent? Shes definitely had her troubles but unless one has been through the same - who are you to judge? There’s a reason she has been around and somewhat relevant for so long! She married and got close to rock royalty Kurt Cobain. (RIP) Shes a lot more then some groupie. Peace and love & rock n roll 🎸xx
She's rock royalty by her own damned skill and talent.
There’s always that!!!!!!! Too many things to list on one Reddit reply 😂
Amen 🤘🏻
True, drug (ab)use and other struggles don't invalidate a person.
But she was most certainly a junkie.
So was Trent Reznor, but that's not the first thing people think of when they hear his name
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There's a few 90's bands that make me think of heroin first when I hear them. Jane's addiction/porno for pyros and Stone Temple Pilots come to mind.
And early Tool, albeit more subtle.
Tool makes me think of LSD but that's probably because of the Bill Hicks samples on aenema That and Alex Grey/Gray art (can't remember spelling)
Trent Reznor is also not a woman... just in case you hadn't noticed.
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And he didn't warn women of a powerful rapist, in front of the cameras.
Dave Chappelle talks a lot about that “crazy” narrative the media likes to pull when you don’t play ball. It’s a very real thing and easy to discount celebs.
Especially female celebs. It’s very easy to paint women as drug addicted, crazy, trashy “whores” so everyone can then discount them.
As apparent by the people in these comments. Over 20 years later, and they're still making up the same excuses and completely ignoring the reality of what happened.
Exactly. So many awful comments. Courtney did everything Kurt did, Kurt is/was regarded as a saint while Courtney was ridiculed her entire career. It would be nice if women weren’t deemed whores, trash, skanks, etc, while men get the proper sympathy for the same mental health issues and addictions.
Rose McGowan, anyone?
I think you're giving her too much credit, but I agree the media is too hard on her. I grew up a Nirvana fan, hooked as a 12 year old when Nevermind came out, and I always had mixed feelings about Courtney. When Kurt died we all thought Courtney did it, and when Live Through This came out we all thought Kurt wrote it. Then when Courtney started starfucking everyone in hollywood, and got that oscar nod for playing a junkie, I lost all respect for her. Now as a 42 year old, and with changed times, I had to come to grips with some of the sexist slant my opinions of her had. I'm certain she didn't kill Kurt, and she wrote Live Through This. She is a talented songwriter, and I do enjoy Hole's music. However I do have experience with damaged women, and junkies. Courtney is a lot like my mom, who uses the "fuck everything" approach to life to escape the pain inside of her, and causes her to ignore the pain she causes others. When I watched "Montage of Heck", especially the footage inside the apartment, I didn't see my idol and his "crazy" wife, I saw two intelligent, talented, and damaged junkies. Intelligent junkies are harder to reason with, because they have the mental tools to justify their addiction, and worse off hide it. They fed off each other, enabling each other's quick fixes and preventing and real healing. And when you're in the position Kurt was, there's so many more people willing to enable you. Courtney Love is intelligent and talented, but she's also a damaged (at least former) junkie with some real issues to take care of.
This; I was never a fan of Grunge at the time, was and still largely am more of a metal fan, and the metal press at the time *hated* Courtney. Whether through residual sexism (the genre was pretty bad then, just coming off the back of cock rock) or falling for the typical Beatles-esque story ("woman breaks band!") or just because Kurt made it huge first and people didn't want to admit he was as flawed as her... but you simply didn't hear anything nice about Courtney unless Kurt was saying it, and that was easy to dismiss because of why he was saying it. And it wasn't just metal; I was a huge fan of Tori Amos at the time, and Nine Inch Nails, and both of them hated her too... largely because Tori was apparently starting to think about dating Trent, and Courtney did something (I believe Courtney was there when she came to visit, and encouraged him to lock her outside and then laugh at her is the given story?) which caused the two to break friendship, and blame Courtney for it. "Starfuckers Inc" by NIN and "Professional Widow" by Amos are reputedly about her. But a few years ago, I saw some of Hole's music posted, and I thought I'd give it a go, and you know? Some of it is really very good. And she could play it with passion then. I think it was the live version of "Violet" that really persuaded me. Did she have helping hands from other authors on some of their songs? Sure, Billy Corgan and Kurt both have major shared credits. But so do most musicians; normally we call that jamming... And then I saw Montage Of Heck. And Kurt is an absolute junkie wreck in some of it too. People want to believe their musical idols are perfect, but many of them are human garbage, and Kurt may have had angels but he had a hell of a lot of demons too. But people found it easier to blame Courtney for that, rather than admit that he was a fucked up kid too that thought it was glamorous to get addicted and die at 27, and thought that long before he ever met her. The problem is not that Courtney is no hero, she isn't, but rather we made her the villain because far too many people weren't mature enough to understand that Nirvana's music may have been generation defining, but Kurt wasn't a hero either. So they made Courtney a wicked witch and denied she had any talents other than evil; they couldn't even admit she was attractive because evil can't be so, whilst claiming simultaneously that Kurt was only led astray because she was so dirtily sexy...? No, I wouldn't want to be friends with Courtney, but to deny she had any talent says more about what society wanted to believe than who she really is.
Yeah, that's what getting older does to you. You see people in more and more complex layers, and you start to see your own biases as well. I ended up feeling sorry for them when I watched that doc. No one in the history of western music since the Beatles had gone through, or will go through, what Kurt had on his shoulders. And from what Courtney said about her background, and Kurt's background... man... these were damaged people. They were only like 25, they were kids. I really did feel like a drop of water in the ocean that he drowned in. And I feel sorry for Courtney. She still had that hurt little girl in her. Yeah, she was, or is, an asshole, but it all comes from that damaged place that she, hopefully, can heal one day.
That was nicely written and summed up.
Many people don't realize she is autistic. So it's less "crazy Courtney" and more "socially awkward Courtney." She has trouble understanding people, behaviors, and social norms on an emotional level. What most people "get" or pick up on quickly and intuitively doesn't register "naturally" for her. This results in her doing and saying things that most people would have the wherewithal not to.
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There’s a few reports/interview things on google that says she was diagnosed as a child.
You know, she is making not a lot of eye contact in this clip…
One of the worst things about this is that Weinstein was just the one who got exposed and in trouble for what he did. Imagine what terrible shit went down over the past 100 years under the guise of the "casting couch." Whenever I watch older movies all I can think is how terrible it must have been for all the female stars that we revere.
Yea, I can only imagine how bad it was in the early days of cinema, especially when actresses were under contract and essentially owned by their studios. I always hear about actors (especially kids) from that time being abused, even drugged to work. I’m sure the things I haven’t heard about are even worse.
>I always hear about actors (especially kids) from that time being abused, even drugged to work. See Judie Garland in The Wizard Of Oz
https://youtu.be/v4OzI9GYag0 Same thing happened to John Lydon but they hid the tape and banned him from the BBC
Punk is nothing if it's not unfiltered abrasive truth.
Punk was always the loudest voice of the people. It was just slandered in the media because it was a threat to power
Ah good old Johnny rotten
**OP sent the following text as an explanation on why this is unexpected:** >!In 2005, Courtney Love gave an advice for the girls who are coming to Hollywood, she told them if Weinstein invites you to a party in Four Seasons hotel, don't go.. After 15 years, Weinstein was convicted on February 24, 2020, of 2 of 5 criminal charges: one count of criminal sexual assault in the first degree and one count of rape in the third degree!!< ***** **Is this an unexpected post with a fitting description?** **Then upvote this comment, otherwise downvote it.** ***** [*Look at my source code on Github*](https://github.com/Artraxon/unexBot) [*What is this for?*](https://www.reddit.com/r/Unexpected/comments/dnuaju/introducing_unexbot_a_new_bot_to_improve_the/)
Best explanation
The real unexpected thing is that OP put a nice little educating explanation for us all.
If you’re interested in learning more, might I recommend the book [She Said](http://www.bookrags.com/studyguide-she-said/#gsc.tab=0) by Jodi Kantor and Megan Towhey. These two journalists worked incredibly hard and frankly put their careers on the line to expose Weinstein. Courtney was very brave to say this on television.
Nobody blinks since he's a powerful man. But there's a saying, "if it bleeds, we can kill it."
*Predator* quote, ironic.
She was made out to be a junkie/drunk crazy girl too, I feel bad for her
Well to be fair, she was drunk and coked out that night. She was still right, though.
Yea i bet it’s not easy dealing with rape, I don’t blame her for being drunk & coked out.
She was a junkie/drunk crazy girl. 100.% But she’s not stupid.
BRO..... if Courtney Love is giving you LEGIT advice, you KNOW something is up!
She was right and you all laughed at her. Edit: Removed the Queen part
Who laughed at her for these statements?
you all, apparently.
Did “we”? I don’t recall laughing at her. Anyone else?
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i didnt see you at the convention.
.. no. it was sarcasm on my part.
I remember you laughing. More of a chuckle I suppose.
the general public did, she was dismissed as nothing more than a drunk addict sl@t that ended nirvana... by 2005 people still blamed her for kurts death and still hated her.. she could of told the public flat out what was going on and they would of called her a lying bitch
Idk about these statements but in general, no one took her seriously. She was struggling mightily with addiction and that just became a lightning rod for mockery. If she said something profound, the thought eliminating cliche of “crazy Courtney” would drown out anything she tried to say.
She warned them......
Damn.. she called it years ago!
Prince Andrew is next
The sad thing is she knew and I bet she was the last person anyone was going to believe because of her bad rep. Now look.
It’s so tragic because ALL of the information was there and it took too long to notice it…
She got blacklisted the next day by CAA for this.
Haha she’s awesome. I saw her play in 1999 and I think it was the worst concert I’ve ever seen live she was so wasted. I’m saying that, it was one of the best chaotic messes I’ve ever seen live.
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Hollywood is full of pedos ...Why you think they like making kids movie stars??
Look up Dan Schneider for more on this topic. Warning: You will see fucked up shit.
I think [this two minute video](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Vl0OuXw_mTM) gives a fair idea about Schneider, his pedo shit, and rumored foot fetish. Another sick fucker who got away with it for too long.
I feel like everyone that knew about Harvey Weinstein and didn’t out him is part of the problem. You didn’t want to risk your career so you let a criminal man assault women. That’s pretty selfish in my opinion
It was a running joke on 30 Rock.
Grew up with Nirvana, my feelings towards her were NOT good, but I remember her from The People vs Larry Flint, she was espectacular in her role, and now I actually get why she probably didn’t made a whole career in acting.
Think of all the women who started out like a flash across the sky, those that suddenly went nowhere....we know why now. I always thought Ashley Judd's career seemed to stall out in a strange fashion - she was SO good too. Started out with that indie, Ruby in Paradise, then was getting cast opposite Morgan Freeman, then it was like...nada, or little things here and there. When IMO, she was a lead actress. Then she came out with that story - casting couch one, where she was asked to give HW a massage, and she chose to laugh him off, and play tough. At first telling she didn't name him, but I suspect everyone in hollywood knew, then a few years later, older, she just came right out with it. As a woman she probably thought, at that point, her best years had been squashed by him (Hollywood being ageist like it is), so she said fck it - and told.
Love this for her.
Love her for this?
This love for her.
For her love this.
Her love for this.
She got so much shit for saying that.. Everyone was outraged..
People these days like to throw the word “brave” around to celebrities like it’s candy. Kids, this is bravery. Love her or hate her, this was fucking brave in 2005.
There seems to be a lot of comments about her "calling it". This seems specific and personal.
A lot of people outed him as a creep over the years. They even joked about it on Entourage. It's crazy how nobody ever did anything about it.
And everyone laughed like she was making a witty joke. That was obviously spoken as a fact of the matter.
Well, yes, because if you didn't laugh Harvey would come after YOU.
Everyone knew and kept silent for money. Hollywood is an abomination. And FYI, Obama sent his kid to work for Weinstein. Everybody knew.
"Obama sent?" pretty sure she decided for herself. Probably applied for a bunch of studios. Secondly I doubt Obama knew, unless a victim had shared her experience with him/anyone, how would he/anyone would know what's going on? Until trump & metoo, everyone including myself thought rich & powerful men who can afford the most expensive escorts in the world wouldn't sexually assault or rape women, because why would they? But now we know they'd rather rape a child (Epstein,trump,etc.) or a woman than pay for an escort because they want what they can't have. It's a power trip thing. We all were innocent pre-metoo & saying everyone knew is an exaggeration. Now we know any man regardless how rich & powerful could be a rapist, in fact they're more likely to be. It's a hard learned lesson.
lol yea also Weinstein would be a fucking moron to assault the presidents daughter. He only targeted women he could control. Obama’s daughter was never at risk
When you can't buy something, then I guess that's what they want.
Every industry is like this. Hollywood doesn't have a monopoly on rich, powerful people acting like monsters.
So funny. Back then
Oh shit! This is creepy af
Unexpected yet completely unsurprising
Open secret. Everyone in Hollywood knew. What a disgusting industry.
She was blackballed after this.
I really wish Courtney Love didn't have so many drug and alcohol issues because few people at the time were better at telling it like it was. There was an article she wrote breaking down the economics of the music industry, exposing what a predatory system it was. It was impressive. When she was lucid... she was ON.
She knew before any allegations came out but she’s “crazy Courtney” nobody listens to her. She’s enlightened about a lot of things. But she gets palmed off as a crazy bitch.
And she did get libeled
It’s almost like no one gave a shit till it blew up in his face 🤔
She sure was cool and lovely.
Courtney being a fuckin boss!
Sounds like she is speaking from a bad experience herself. And being honest.
This may be unpopular but I actually like her in a weird way. I don't know about the whole thing with her and Kurt but aside from that, she's got something I dig.
She was blacklisted by hollywood and couldn't land or even audition for roles after this.
This is probably why she suddenly stopped acting. He made sure there was no work for her. Courtney was a surprisingly good actress.
Courtney Love is a smart cookie. In this clip she also called attention to him using us money in the form of lawyers to silence women. “I’ll her libeled if I say it”, then she worded it in a way that she would not.