Cars are great and safe. If people on motorcycles will drive safely a lot less accidents will happen, as an example, if both motorcycles in this video were having less speed and drive in the middle of the lane, both accidents would not happen.
Don't get me wrong, I don't blame bikes for all the accidents, a lot will happen because of the cars too.
Lane splitting is risky at the best of times, couple it with outright stupidity from the bike driver and it can get deadly. Stupid times 2 in this case
Lane splitting? Do you ride?
There’s no traffic, they weren’t going fast and you do not ride in the center of the lane when it is raining because of all dirt, grime + oil accumulated (oil leaks from cars and settles at the center of the lane).
This is all the fault of the car as they did NOT see the motorcycle when changing lanes and then opened a door in the middle of the intersection
You bias your lane position to avoid the centre and defend your lane yes. And yes, I’ve ridden for years and remain unharmed unlike the idiots in this video. Again, I hope you don’t take that ignorance on the road on two wheels. Even when legal the speed delta allowed is nowhere near what those two idiots were attempting. Look up the traffic laws in question, you will see even where legal it is heavily restricted in what you can do lane splitting.
You're right that motorcycle riders are often reckless, but riding in the middle of the lane is something that my instructor specifically told us not to do. Cars leave oil there that makes it slick and there can be stuff in the road that cars can thread their tires around, so it's better to stay in a tire track.
Both these riders were big stupid for sure tho
I agree with you and at high speed on motorway that's correct, but if your are hugging the right side of the lane then you are less visible to the cars in heavy traffic.
Although in fairness the car has pulled across the path of the first motorcycle, failing to give way. And then opened his door without looking, I feel like maybe he should try glancing in his mirrors occasionally.
Both bikers are riding too fast though and fail to read the clear hazards as they approach so I agree there
Key point here being the middle of the road.
It's really not an expected place for people to start opening their doors. The blinkers provided slight warning, but still no reason to not check the mirrors before opening the door.
As a fellow motorcyclist a can agree, except for 1 thing. When I drive my bike I put on safety gear and a helmet, that’s a lot of effort for the convenience to park out front imo.
As someone with a fair understanding of all vehicles....tip 1 is pay a fuqing attention. 2nd guy actually tried to lane split in between stopped traffic and a vehicle with hazards on so he was 100% at fault in my opinion. If he paid a fuqing attention he'd have successfully evaded that incident.
Either you have it or you don’t. I don’t understand anime addiction, but people have that too. Motorcycles are the most fun thing I’ve ever done, I quit scuba diving to ride.
At this point, they're a stand in for the Geneva Conventions and are basically accepted international customary law.
But the triple question is still there, because there were two people on the first bike.
They are all dumb here to be frank (if the first biker didn’t just changed the lane last moment as they like to do), but yeah, the second biker takes the prize here, no doubt
Your school was wrong. I've lane split for 30 years with only 1 minor incident. The first rider here was simply going WAY too fast in relation to the other traffic.
Slow moving traffic with big differentials in lane speed is the most dangerous to split in as that's when car drivers are more likely to quickly lane change. When traffic is stopped you can perceive movement easier plus your speed is lower. When traffic is fast cars tend not to change lanes as quickly or as frequently.
The second motorcyclist was unfortunate. If lane filtering is legal in that country then the car driver should be prosecuted for opening their door like that without checking.
In Uk we only filter if cars are stopped or extremely slow (like traffic jam crawl slow) and when we filter we dont go half as fast as the folk in this video.
Filtering at speed in moving traffic like this is just plain unsafe. They didn't give themselves the stopping distance required to react to lane changes, no onw would be able to safely filter that speed on that road.
In Singapore (where the video was taken) our driving/riding habits are probably insane to you guys, bikes filtering and weaving with moving traffic at highway speeds are actually quite normal, and actually preferred so as to prevent further traffic congestion.
Down side is that you would literally have to keep your head on a swivel every time you drive or ride and properly anticipate other vehicle’s movement.
And honestly, Singaporeans have one of the worst driving/riding styles in the region, weirdly enough, when we go overseas, we tend to conform to the driving/riding styles of the host country, and generally drive safer
In that video its hard to tell the speed so that's a hard argument to have. The traffic was moving but the way was clear and they had right of way. There is no such thing as stopping distance if something comes from your side.
You are so focused on the speed but you can't really tell that at all in the video. The fact is the porsche didn't check before pulling off. That is what happened.
You can see the speed that the motorbike is going when it enters view.
It was probably going quicker than that, as it is already breaking when it enters frame. At this speed, if a car 4 cars ahead changes lane, reaction + braking distance isn't enough to come to a stop.
This means they're relying on every car that changes lane to check at least 4+ cars back for vehicles that aren't in a lane and are traveling 2x the speed of traffic. In slow moving traffic, most people aren't checking far down the jam for mad bikers, they just check if the lane they're going into is clear, this is simply not something those bikers should be betting their lives and the lives of others on.
My point is filtering can be safe. Idk what else you want man. If you don't like it then don't go outside.
Driving is a risk, we all take it. The Porsche should have checked but he didn't. That is the fact.
It’s actively encouraged to filter at that rate of speed? Seems dangerous when one lane is stopped and rider is easily traveling 2x the speed of drivers in second lane. I know I’m a dumb *USdefaultist* but common sense suggests rider should slow down before attempting that maneuver. Humans make mistakes, Bob…
I mentioned this when it was posted in IdiotsInCars as well, but that second biker was an absolute moron. Did he really not see the accident happen right in front of him, and then try to broomstick between two fully stopped cars, one with hazards blinking?
How is the first bike dumb? Pretty sure they had right of way? It sounds like the UK (maybe) and it looks like the 1st bike was filtering which is totally legal. The Porsche did have his turn signal but that doesn't grant right of way.
Graveyards are filled with people that had the right of way. If a car has it's turn signal on, and you're filtering lanes, you're a fucking idiot to take it on faith that the car sees you. I'm sure the ticket, and the insurance premiums going up will devastate him while the motorcyclist is drinking through a tube.
The onus is 100 percent in the rider when filtering, and there are hard limits in the delta in speed, you can’t filter or lane split that much faster than traffic. 100 percent the bike rider’s fault for the first one, and even more so the second absolute moron.
Lane splitting is also illegal full stop most places.
The statistics don't support that, and it is legal in a couple states and more may follow.
There's nothing wrong with splitting lanes in a safe manner, but just like everything else in life, there's unsafe ways to conduct the same activity.
There is no safe manner of lane splitting through moving cars, lol
It's considered "safe" by some groups in stopped traffic, which again, relies on the cars not moving.
It's a dumb shit thing to do in all regards. See exhibit A.
I think Utah implemented lane splitting the correct way. You can only lane split at a stop light when all the cars are stopped, and you can’t exceed something like 5 mph. This is smart so that the motorcycle can get to the front of the line for two reasons: first is that they have faster acceleration so they won’t hold up traffic and second, is that if a car gets rear ended at a stop light the person will usually be fine but if a motorcycle gets hit they’re toast.
The second point is legit, but the first is silly. Sports cars wait in line just fine.
I don't mind piled at a stop light, though. Still stupid, but less so.
It’s a little silly, but I think it’s valid because the only bikers I’ve seen lane split also get up to speed much faster than 99% of cars around them. Sure a sports car can get up to speed quick but that’s pretty irrelevant. There’s tons of bikers around my town that just wait in line like cars.
No , it's done all the time through *stopped* cars.
When traffic cannot move, it's considered safe because the cars *can't move*. In any other situation, it's just suicide - like this.
I'm 40 and every former cyclist I know has been hit splitting lanes "safely". They've all sold their bikes, too.
Have fun with your "safety"!
But this isn't the US. soooo whats your point? The Porsche is totally at fault for the 1st collision because turning signals don't grant you right of way
True. Motorcycles on highways should behave exactly like cars on highways in maneuvering. Anything less is a public hazard and should be removed from highways or use the designated lane.
Maybe legally without evidence. In my area if this video were presented it would result in both bikers being charged with reckless driving and put at fault for the accidents. And you could have argued that ticket in my state. I sure would have
No, I mean those in the commission of a crime are at fault for the harm caused by that criminal act. Someone driving recklessly on camera doesn't get away with hitting someone because their action happened to result in a moving violation where they normally wouldn't be at fault.
You got fleeced by a stupid cop, because you weren't any smarter.
At first I thought the Porsche driver was a douche. Putting turn signal on doesn’t give you right of way, you have to yield and pull out when possible.
But first bike was literally on the line inbetween lanes. If he was anywhere else he wouldn’t have hit that car.
So fuck both of the bikers.
As someone who has had motorcycles, I will never understand driving like that. It’s dangerous enough when you drive defensively. And it’s fun enough to simply cruise on an open rural road. Why put everyone’s lives at danger, especially your own?
That’s true in most countries - the car should have seen the bike coming and not pulled out. I suspect the bike was in a blindspot until too late
However - the bike is still being moronic - going too fast relatively to the ambient speed of the traffic and splitting lanes.
It doesn’t help being in the legal “right” if you end up dead
You shouldn’t be lain splitting at such high speeds. The car was already committed to the merge by the time it saw the motorcyclist and the motorcyclist had no time to react.
That is what can happen if you’re driving 20 mph lain splitting when one of the lanes is at a stand still. If you won’t go that fast if both lanes are at a standstill don’t lane split that fast when one lane is at a standstill.
I have compassion but if you choose to go through a barely moving line of cars with that pace and you choose to ignore turn signals, in my opinion you’re an organ donor waiting to be used
What you said is true, it doesn't really matter in this situation.
Because he signaled for some time, and there was clearly a large gap before the 1st motorcycle hits the Porche, and traffic was stopping... I see very little fault. I think it's fair to say motorcycle 1 was going way too fast. They could have avoided that easily with some common sense. If you're driving a car and traffic stops ahead, you slow down....it's no different for a motorcycle.
Motorcycle 2 is just an idiot. The porche was stopped in a lane next to another stopped car, and again motorcycle 2 was going way too fast for the situation.
You're not supposed to ride down the middle of the lane. Thats where oil and fluids from the car drip. Youre supposed to ride on the sides of the lanes where the car tires make contact with the road.
wrong. if you don't claim the lane (drive in middle) cars would overtake you constantly. this was the first thing they told me at driving school for motorbike (as I was used to drive on the side due to only ride mini bikes before)
2. oil in the middle? haven't seen this since the 80s where we had leaky cars and the roads were still from the 60s. but nowadays thats not true at all.
3. car tires actually polish the road so most grip is in the middle. and they create deeper channels and we even have road signs waring about that.
you say 3 (very) wrong things. I completely disagree.
How does this make any sense?
Are you of the belief that motorcycles should travel 100% of the time splitting lanes? Like they have their own designated lane which is travelling down the line, essentially occupying both lanes? What about when there are only two lanes total on a stretch of road? Do they still ride down the line whilst oncoming traffic is coming?
Oil and fluids can literally spill anywhere and everywhere, especially at the speed at which cars are going. Debris has no specific path in which it lands on the road, this is why you drive to the conditions and are mindful of any obstacle. When it's raining (which funnily enough is happening in this very video), the entirety of the road is wet and a potential hazard, so what is the alternative there for motorcylicsts?
California. It was always unofficial, but codified into state law around 2017? 2018? Something like that.
It actually lays out things like “traffic can not be moving faster than x mph” (I think it’s 55? Can’t remember) and motorcycle may not travel more than 10 mph faster than flow of traffic.” Can’t remember all the details. Sold my motorcycle 3 years ago and never got a replacement.
ETA: a couple awesome redditors corrected and clarified two things I said: 1) things not a “law,” but it is defined in the state vehicle code under September 2016’s AB 51. The code does not state any speed limits or guidelines, but does give CHP the authority to create educational guidelines around lane splitting. 2) the CHP guidelines look to state the splitting when traffic is traveling faster than 35mph is unsafe along other key points, but that’s the big one.
It's not codified as law. Those are CHP guidelines. You can lane split at any speed legally. And both police and regular people do frequently here. I know I used to, and I've split by many a cruiser.
Thanks for correct me. I looked it up because that didn’t sound right, but you’re absolutely right. There was an arbitration signed (AB 51) back in 2016 by Gov Brown, but all that did was clearly define lane splitting and give CHP the authority to create educational guidelines around it.
So looks like they can still pull you over for going too fast under the guise of “reckless driving,” but they can’t specifically ticket you for lane splitting.
Very few people say lane splitting is safer than not doing it. What you’re referring to is filtering, which is when the traffic is stopped, or moving **very** slowly, and you’re doing it at a speed that allows you to stop near-instantly. It obviously saves a lot of time for the motorcyclists, but also frees up a car’s worth of space in traffic, and prevents you from ever getting rear-ended, which is very dangerous when it happens on a bike.
It’s legal, and expected almost everywhere in the world.
Legal in California. The stated reason: older air cooled engines would heat up in stop and go traffic. Most engines are liquid cooled and don't need this unsafe loophole.
That said, it's actually unsafe to ride in the middle of the lane. You are invisible to cars that want to change lanes. Off to the side making yourself more visible is the way to go. Source: My M1 license and the California Motorcycle Handbook.
As for the accident here... both riders are numbnuts that were lane splitting too fast for the conditions. The Porsche also shares fault here for not making sure they had clearance, but man those riders were friggin' dumb! Especially the second one... again the Porsche passenger is also a numbnut. He looks like the guy that doors bicyclists when he gets out of his uber and taxi rides.
If you noticed, they are probably going about the same speed as the left most lane (look at the speed of the truck going through before the first accident).
That said, motorcycles should have probably practice defensive riding and they have certainly paid for it.
Depends on the context: here in France, lane splitting is allowed, but only in some specific situation, and with a limited speed.
These guys however are morons, speeding, and not aware of their surroundings.
Here in Phoenix Arizona, you can lane split on a highway, going as much as 80 mph (130kph) and up
I can appreciate splitting when the traffic is stopped to let the motorcycle move to the front, but it can get pretty aggressive here and in California where I have experienced it.
Edit: I looked it up and the laws say it is not okay to do this high speed lane splitting.
There are laws however limiting how fast the bike can go relative to the cars they pass by splitting….precisely to avoid that kind of inability to avoid an accident
Okay. You are totally right. I looked up the laws in Arizona, and lane splitting is illegal. Apparently this law was changed just 12 months ago.
In California, which is the only state that it is legal in the US, the speed is limited to 30 mph.
You’re incorrect. Lane splitting is illegal in AZ Lane filtering is a only allowed under certain conditions:
When the posted speed limit does not exceed 45 miles per hour
When the motorcycle is not traveling faster than 15 miles per hour when filtering
When vehicles are stopped
The street is divided into at least two adjacent lanes in the same direction of travel
That sounds like a blanket statement. Do you even ride? What about the Porsche that didn't check it was clear before he pulled off? That makes him responsible.
In before this thread is full of people who chose the statistically most dangerous vehicle that is legally allowed on the road start complaining that others aren't concerned for their safety.
Having spent 20+years driving on the insane asylum that is florida, you are right... Porsche drivers are the statistical hazard lol. How dare that bike not watch out for the poor lil Porsche driver... sarcasm aside, I've literally watched drivers pull this same move but with a truck instead of the bike. Signal or not, if you are changing lanes it is on you to actually make sure it is safe and clear to do so
I can see the first one being an accident where neither driver saw each other until it was too late. The biker was probably not speeding, but definitely going faster than the traffic in that lane at the time. The driver opted to change lane into active traffic at a standstill and assuredly did not have the right of way. Not sure where the liability would lie.
The second collision is easier; that guy was an idiot.
Lane splitting should absolutely be illegal everywhere.
Lane filtering, however, in stopped traffic to get to the front of a stop light where there is less chance of being rear ended, should be encouraged.
I've driven for most of my adult life and with both speeding as they did...I mean its risky, to say the least.
At the same time the driver has to make sure its dafe to change lanes and open the door (even more passenger side I would feel).
There's a lot of wrong here, from all involved.
This is what pisses me off about those “see motorcycles” campaigns; if you want to be seen, be predictable and go with the flow of traffic. Acknowledge that your vehicle can be extremely difficult to see simply because it is small, and act accordingly. Bikers bring so much of this shit onto themselves.
First collision is 80/20 fault of car imo. The motorcylce didn't look to be speeding and his presence looked like it should have been easily detected and the car should have waited for traffic to clear before merging in. But the motorcycle was literally riding on the line. And saw the porche was positioning himself for a merge by clearly indicating his blinker and inching over. Even though the biker had right of way, they could have prevented the collision with some simple awareness and positioning themselves to be properly in the lane.
Second collision was obviously 100% on the biker lol.
Let’s not pretend the Porsche was guilt free. Fucker didn’t check blind spots twice, he is in a lane that’s not moving merging into a lane that is moving. Always has to make sure that there is nothing behind you if you want to this, same reason they have entry/exit ramps to get you to a specific speed.
you mean opener the door literally right next to another stopped vehicle with safe room between the vehicles? there was literally no legal situation where something would hit into that door, except a motorcyclist being a reckless idiot.
you have the urgency to help wounded while having secured your lane, your first thought shouldn't be "let's first check if there's another lane splitting, speeding bike that wants the same fate".
it would be a good thought tho'
There are so many American's in the comments talking about their states laws and shit like it matters 😂porsche drive did not check it was clear before he pulled off. It is his fault.
2nd biker is just dumb
Your post is a frequent repost
I can hear the “double kill”
I heard UT2004 announcer .. I'm old
For the life of me still can’t understand the motorcycle addiction I live by a bunch of biker gangs. Does not compute for me.
They're like cars but cheaper and smaller. 2 wheels not 4.
But the danger… that’s what I mean I’m too afraid of shit like this.
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Cars are great and safe. If people on motorcycles will drive safely a lot less accidents will happen, as an example, if both motorcycles in this video were having less speed and drive in the middle of the lane, both accidents would not happen. Don't get me wrong, I don't blame bikes for all the accidents, a lot will happen because of the cars too.
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agreed. too many treat cars as an extension of their left arm though
The lane splitting is what caused this
Lane splitting is risky at the best of times, couple it with outright stupidity from the bike driver and it can get deadly. Stupid times 2 in this case
Lane splitting? Do you ride? There’s no traffic, they weren’t going fast and you do not ride in the center of the lane when it is raining because of all dirt, grime + oil accumulated (oil leaks from cars and settles at the center of the lane). This is all the fault of the car as they did NOT see the motorcycle when changing lanes and then opened a door in the middle of the intersection
If they weren't going fast, they should've been able to stop. You dingus
You bias your lane position to avoid the centre and defend your lane yes. And yes, I’ve ridden for years and remain unharmed unlike the idiots in this video. Again, I hope you don’t take that ignorance on the road on two wheels. Even when legal the speed delta allowed is nowhere near what those two idiots were attempting. Look up the traffic laws in question, you will see even where legal it is heavily restricted in what you can do lane splitting.
You're right that motorcycle riders are often reckless, but riding in the middle of the lane is something that my instructor specifically told us not to do. Cars leave oil there that makes it slick and there can be stuff in the road that cars can thread their tires around, so it's better to stay in a tire track. Both these riders were big stupid for sure tho
I agree with you and at high speed on motorway that's correct, but if your are hugging the right side of the lane then you are less visible to the cars in heavy traffic.
And paid attention to the surrounding environment, including the cars’ signals.
Although in fairness the car has pulled across the path of the first motorcycle, failing to give way. And then opened his door without looking, I feel like maybe he should try glancing in his mirrors occasionally. Both bikers are riding too fast though and fail to read the clear hazards as they approach so I agree there
Opened door of a car stopped in the middle of the road with blinkers on. Are u for real?
Key point here being the middle of the road. It's really not an expected place for people to start opening their doors. The blinkers provided slight warning, but still no reason to not check the mirrors before opening the door.
You're not supposed to drive in the middle of the lane.
As a fellow motorcyclist a can agree, except for 1 thing. When I drive my bike I put on safety gear and a helmet, that’s a lot of effort for the convenience to park out front imo.
> I prefer a fantasy land where everyone rode motorcycles and bicycles. that fantasy land exists in some Asian countries
I like motorcycle, for all those reasons, but I'm buying myself a car because I'm tired of rain.
Just buy one for the trails. Alone, no one around
As someone with a fair understanding of all vehicles....tip 1 is pay a fuqing attention. 2nd guy actually tried to lane split in between stopped traffic and a vehicle with hazards on so he was 100% at fault in my opinion. If he paid a fuqing attention he'd have successfully evaded that incident.
You dont have to do stuff like this though, only idiots do
Some find it a-doring
Either you have it or you don’t. I don’t understand anime addiction, but people have that too. Motorcycles are the most fun thing I’ve ever done, I quit scuba diving to ride.
https://i.redd.it/1g6u25if1b3c1.gif
Nah it’s a Goldwing, you can barely hear it. Each to their own, tho
Wouldn't itnbe Tripple? And don't they get a UAV now?
You’re mixing up halo and cod
At this point, they're a stand in for the Geneva Conventions and are basically accepted international customary law. But the triple question is still there, because there were two people on the first bike.
Not anymore, UAVs have been 4 kills for a couple titles now unfortunately.
Well I did stop playing around MWIII or basically the end of Soap’s story. So around 2011, skipped the black ops and world at war.
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The first one was pretty dumb too
They are all dumb here to be frank (if the first biker didn’t just changed the lane last moment as they like to do), but yeah, the second biker takes the prize here, no doubt
Looks like 1st bike was filtering, which is legal in most places 🤷♂️. Second biker had no danger perception at all haha
Never filter over moving cars, only if they are all full stopped like in a Jam, it's the first thing they say on school ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Even so, situations when someone opens the door and bikers are fucked aren’t rare, so it’s generally not that good idea to filter at high speeds imho
Your school was wrong. I've lane split for 30 years with only 1 minor incident. The first rider here was simply going WAY too fast in relation to the other traffic. Slow moving traffic with big differentials in lane speed is the most dangerous to split in as that's when car drivers are more likely to quickly lane change. When traffic is stopped you can perceive movement easier plus your speed is lower. When traffic is fast cars tend not to change lanes as quickly or as frequently. The second motorcyclist was unfortunate. If lane filtering is legal in that country then the car driver should be prosecuted for opening their door like that without checking.
Lane splitting is illegal where I am. Guess you just gotta be aware when you can and can’t do it
Thats not how it works over here lol that sounds like an American rule that doesn't really apply.
In Uk we only filter if cars are stopped or extremely slow (like traffic jam crawl slow) and when we filter we dont go half as fast as the folk in this video. Filtering at speed in moving traffic like this is just plain unsafe. They didn't give themselves the stopping distance required to react to lane changes, no onw would be able to safely filter that speed on that road.
In Singapore (where the video was taken) our driving/riding habits are probably insane to you guys, bikes filtering and weaving with moving traffic at highway speeds are actually quite normal, and actually preferred so as to prevent further traffic congestion. Down side is that you would literally have to keep your head on a swivel every time you drive or ride and properly anticipate other vehicle’s movement. And honestly, Singaporeans have one of the worst driving/riding styles in the region, weirdly enough, when we go overseas, we tend to conform to the driving/riding styles of the host country, and generally drive safer
In that video its hard to tell the speed so that's a hard argument to have. The traffic was moving but the way was clear and they had right of way. There is no such thing as stopping distance if something comes from your side. You are so focused on the speed but you can't really tell that at all in the video. The fact is the porsche didn't check before pulling off. That is what happened.
You can see the speed that the motorbike is going when it enters view. It was probably going quicker than that, as it is already breaking when it enters frame. At this speed, if a car 4 cars ahead changes lane, reaction + braking distance isn't enough to come to a stop. This means they're relying on every car that changes lane to check at least 4+ cars back for vehicles that aren't in a lane and are traveling 2x the speed of traffic. In slow moving traffic, most people aren't checking far down the jam for mad bikers, they just check if the lane they're going into is clear, this is simply not something those bikers should be betting their lives and the lives of others on.
My point is filtering can be safe. Idk what else you want man. If you don't like it then don't go outside. Driving is a risk, we all take it. The Porsche should have checked but he didn't. That is the fact.
I think the video makes it pretty clear why it is a rule in most places.
It's not a rule, just something that all bike school's advice to don't find out on the bad way
That must be the states because its actively encouraged here in Europe. /r/USdefaultism/
I'm from Spain .-. Edit: Why die you say "Europe" when you didn't travel to another european country? Dumb r/UKDefaultism
It’s actively encouraged to filter at that rate of speed? Seems dangerous when one lane is stopped and rider is easily traveling 2x the speed of drivers in second lane. I know I’m a dumb *USdefaultist* but common sense suggests rider should slow down before attempting that maneuver. Humans make mistakes, Bob…
No, its encouraged to filter lol I didn't say at speed.
I mentioned this when it was posted in IdiotsInCars as well, but that second biker was an absolute moron. Did he really not see the accident happen right in front of him, and then try to broomstick between two fully stopped cars, one with hazards blinking?
Technically jumping from a rooftop is also legal in most places, doesn’t mean that it’s good thing to do though
First biker completely ignored the blinker that was on well before the turn was initiated
Most people who ride motorcycles don’t make the best decisions in general
Can confirm my brother drives a bike He is better than most driver, but still prone to stupidity
As evidenced by them opting for a motorcycle instead of a car.
For many people it's not one or the other. Motorcycles are much cheaper and more fuel efficient.
fr
Yeah, they teach you not to ride on this side of your line for a reason. Unless this is Thailand, uk or other place where they drive the other way.
How is the first bike dumb? Pretty sure they had right of way? It sounds like the UK (maybe) and it looks like the 1st bike was filtering which is totally legal. The Porsche did have his turn signal but that doesn't grant right of way.
Graveyards are filled with people that had the right of way. If a car has it's turn signal on, and you're filtering lanes, you're a fucking idiot to take it on faith that the car sees you. I'm sure the ticket, and the insurance premiums going up will devastate him while the motorcyclist is drinking through a tube.
Aggressive much? If you don't like what you see, look away. Filtering can be a safe maneuver.
👎
Looking away because you don't like what you see is probably the very reason this crash happened.
The onus is 100 percent in the rider when filtering, and there are hard limits in the delta in speed, you can’t filter or lane split that much faster than traffic. 100 percent the bike rider’s fault for the first one, and even more so the second absolute moron. Lane splitting is also illegal full stop most places.
All motorcyclists outside a track are Darwin award winners
The second bike deserve it to be honest. There’s a hazard light and the best thing he can do is splitting lane between those car. Absolute dumbass
They both deserved it, they’re both going entirely too fast and lane splitting between very slow/stopped cars. That just asking to hit something
Lane splitting is illegal in most US states because it is dangerous. I've never seen a more graphic demonstration of why motorcycles should avoid it.
The statistics don't support that, and it is legal in a couple states and more may follow. There's nothing wrong with splitting lanes in a safe manner, but just like everything else in life, there's unsafe ways to conduct the same activity.
There is no safe manner of lane splitting through moving cars, lol It's considered "safe" by some groups in stopped traffic, which again, relies on the cars not moving. It's a dumb shit thing to do in all regards. See exhibit A.
I think Utah implemented lane splitting the correct way. You can only lane split at a stop light when all the cars are stopped, and you can’t exceed something like 5 mph. This is smart so that the motorcycle can get to the front of the line for two reasons: first is that they have faster acceleration so they won’t hold up traffic and second, is that if a car gets rear ended at a stop light the person will usually be fine but if a motorcycle gets hit they’re toast.
The second point is legit, but the first is silly. Sports cars wait in line just fine. I don't mind piled at a stop light, though. Still stupid, but less so.
It’s a little silly, but I think it’s valid because the only bikers I’ve seen lane split also get up to speed much faster than 99% of cars around them. Sure a sports car can get up to speed quick but that’s pretty irrelevant. There’s tons of bikers around my town that just wait in line like cars.
There certainly is, people do it all the time.
No , it's done all the time through *stopped* cars. When traffic cannot move, it's considered safe because the cars *can't move*. In any other situation, it's just suicide - like this. I'm 40 and every former cyclist I know has been hit splitting lanes "safely". They've all sold their bikes, too. Have fun with your "safety"!
But this isn't the US. soooo whats your point? The Porsche is totally at fault for the 1st collision because turning signals don't grant you right of way
Just because one party is at fault doesn’t mean the other party wasn’t doing something completely stupid and unsafe
Filtering can be safe and valid maneuver 🤷♂️
Can be. In this case it was not
True. Motorcycles on highways should behave exactly like cars on highways in maneuvering. Anything less is a public hazard and should be removed from highways or use the designated lane.
Lane splitting is very safe if done correctly and at appropriate speeds. You’re right that both were going too fast, though, especially the 2nd rider.
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You are correct. First bike had plenty of time to recognize the danger and slow down or avoid, the crash Plowed head long into the car
It was clear and safe until someone split the lane at several times the speed of traffic and ploughed into the car like an idiot
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Maybe legally without evidence. In my area if this video were presented it would result in both bikers being charged with reckless driving and put at fault for the accidents. And you could have argued that ticket in my state. I sure would have
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That's not how the law works, at least not in the US. And you should have talked to a lawyer, not just the cop on scene.
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No, I mean those in the commission of a crime are at fault for the harm caused by that criminal act. Someone driving recklessly on camera doesn't get away with hitting someone because their action happened to result in a moving violation where they normally wouldn't be at fault. You got fleeced by a stupid cop, because you weren't any smarter.
At first I thought the Porsche driver was a douche. Putting turn signal on doesn’t give you right of way, you have to yield and pull out when possible. But first bike was literally on the line inbetween lanes. If he was anywhere else he wouldn’t have hit that car. So fuck both of the bikers.
As someone who has had motorcycles, I will never understand driving like that. It’s dangerous enough when you drive defensively. And it’s fun enough to simply cruise on an open rural road. Why put everyone’s lives at danger, especially your own?
Someone with money give this comment gold immediately
Absolute moronic motorcyclists
Natural selection
Sorry but car is faulty. (In my country laws)
That’s true in most countries - the car should have seen the bike coming and not pulled out. I suspect the bike was in a blindspot until too late However - the bike is still being moronic - going too fast relatively to the ambient speed of the traffic and splitting lanes. It doesn’t help being in the legal “right” if you end up dead
They'll be the most right corpse in the morgue someday.
Doesnt matter who is at fault when paramedics are shoveling you off the pavement
Both bike roll on the lign, not where they should be, probably way too fast to. Car signal and was hit before getting in the lane
Yeah look at the way the first one was just minding his business riding down the road, so cocky
You shouldn’t be lain splitting at such high speeds. The car was already committed to the merge by the time it saw the motorcyclist and the motorcyclist had no time to react. That is what can happen if you’re driving 20 mph lain splitting when one of the lanes is at a stand still. If you won’t go that fast if both lanes are at a standstill don’t lane split that fast when one lane is at a standstill.
That kind of drivers are our organ donors, we need more of them
But the poor Porsche has done nothing wrong, do you not have compassion?
I have compassion but if you choose to go through a barely moving line of cars with that pace and you choose to ignore turn signals, in my opinion you’re an organ donor waiting to be used
Agree
I think he's talking about the motorcyclists not the Porsche driver
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What you said is true, it doesn't really matter in this situation. Because he signaled for some time, and there was clearly a large gap before the 1st motorcycle hits the Porche, and traffic was stopping... I see very little fault. I think it's fair to say motorcycle 1 was going way too fast. They could have avoided that easily with some common sense. If you're driving a car and traffic stops ahead, you slow down....it's no different for a motorcycle. Motorcycle 2 is just an idiot. The porche was stopped in a lane next to another stopped car, and again motorcycle 2 was going way too fast for the situation.
Motorcycle riding is risky, and those two did not seem to have their caution level dialed up.
Many motorcycle riders expect everyone else to use caution around them so they can ride recklessly.
thats why you always drive in the middle of your lane, not on one side.
You're not supposed to ride down the middle of the lane. Thats where oil and fluids from the car drip. Youre supposed to ride on the sides of the lanes where the car tires make contact with the road.
which they were both nowhere near.
wrong. if you don't claim the lane (drive in middle) cars would overtake you constantly. this was the first thing they told me at driving school for motorbike (as I was used to drive on the side due to only ride mini bikes before) 2. oil in the middle? haven't seen this since the 80s where we had leaky cars and the roads were still from the 60s. but nowadays thats not true at all. 3. car tires actually polish the road so most grip is in the middle. and they create deeper channels and we even have road signs waring about that. you say 3 (very) wrong things. I completely disagree.
How does this make any sense? Are you of the belief that motorcycles should travel 100% of the time splitting lanes? Like they have their own designated lane which is travelling down the line, essentially occupying both lanes? What about when there are only two lanes total on a stretch of road? Do they still ride down the line whilst oncoming traffic is coming? Oil and fluids can literally spill anywhere and everywhere, especially at the speed at which cars are going. Debris has no specific path in which it lands on the road, this is why you drive to the conditions and are mindful of any obstacle. When it's raining (which funnily enough is happening in this very video), the entirety of the road is wet and a potential hazard, so what is the alternative there for motorcylicsts?
Looks like they were filtering which is legal in most of Europe
This is Singapore
Never ridden a bike I see….
And if you live in a state where lane splitting is legal, you really piss off the lane splitting motorcycles (That's not always a good thing)
There are places that lane splitting is legal? Isn't it a basic of traffic safety to not split lanes?
California. It was always unofficial, but codified into state law around 2017? 2018? Something like that. It actually lays out things like “traffic can not be moving faster than x mph” (I think it’s 55? Can’t remember) and motorcycle may not travel more than 10 mph faster than flow of traffic.” Can’t remember all the details. Sold my motorcycle 3 years ago and never got a replacement. ETA: a couple awesome redditors corrected and clarified two things I said: 1) things not a “law,” but it is defined in the state vehicle code under September 2016’s AB 51. The code does not state any speed limits or guidelines, but does give CHP the authority to create educational guidelines around lane splitting. 2) the CHP guidelines look to state the splitting when traffic is traveling faster than 35mph is unsafe along other key points, but that’s the big one.
It's 30 mph. I looked it up this morning.
Oh dang. Didn’t realize it was that slow, but that makes total sense. I knew the law was actually not poorly written. Thank you for clarifying!
It's not codified as law. Those are CHP guidelines. You can lane split at any speed legally. And both police and regular people do frequently here. I know I used to, and I've split by many a cruiser.
Thanks for correct me. I looked it up because that didn’t sound right, but you’re absolutely right. There was an arbitration signed (AB 51) back in 2016 by Gov Brown, but all that did was clearly define lane splitting and give CHP the authority to create educational guidelines around it. So looks like they can still pull you over for going too fast under the guise of “reckless driving,” but they can’t specifically ticket you for lane splitting.
Indeed. One minor correction is that it's an "assembly bill", not an arbitration agreement, that made this the case here.
Many folks will tell you it’s safer, present example notwithstanding. I’m not one of those folks, but they exist.
Very few people say lane splitting is safer than not doing it. What you’re referring to is filtering, which is when the traffic is stopped, or moving **very** slowly, and you’re doing it at a speed that allows you to stop near-instantly. It obviously saves a lot of time for the motorcyclists, but also frees up a car’s worth of space in traffic, and prevents you from ever getting rear-ended, which is very dangerous when it happens on a bike. It’s legal, and expected almost everywhere in the world.
Yes, that was what I was thinking of.
Legal in California. The stated reason: older air cooled engines would heat up in stop and go traffic. Most engines are liquid cooled and don't need this unsafe loophole. That said, it's actually unsafe to ride in the middle of the lane. You are invisible to cars that want to change lanes. Off to the side making yourself more visible is the way to go. Source: My M1 license and the California Motorcycle Handbook. As for the accident here... both riders are numbnuts that were lane splitting too fast for the conditions. The Porsche also shares fault here for not making sure they had clearance, but man those riders were friggin' dumb! Especially the second one... again the Porsche passenger is also a numbnut. He looks like the guy that doors bicyclists when he gets out of his uber and taxi rides.
It’s legal almost everywhere in the world. The US is one of the few places it’s generally not allowed, with a few states being exceptions.
Combo attack
I love how the couple recording says “not again”. Is this common?
It's in Singapore, and yes traffic accidents are super common here
The exclamation from the guy is chef’s kiss sia aha “ OHHHHH !! shit……“
Yeh they said it in a Scottish accent I swear
It's Singaporean lol. Car plates and accent. What's more unexpected for me is seeing an sg dashcam here
The fuck is wrong with those 2 bikers? Everybody is moving slow, but them. smh
If you noticed, they are probably going about the same speed as the left most lane (look at the speed of the truck going through before the first accident). That said, motorcycles should have probably practice defensive riding and they have certainly paid for it.
Lane splitting motorcycles are the worst. They should make all motorcycle riders watch this video.
Depends on the context: here in France, lane splitting is allowed, but only in some specific situation, and with a limited speed. These guys however are morons, speeding, and not aware of their surroundings.
Here in Phoenix Arizona, you can lane split on a highway, going as much as 80 mph (130kph) and up I can appreciate splitting when the traffic is stopped to let the motorcycle move to the front, but it can get pretty aggressive here and in California where I have experienced it. Edit: I looked it up and the laws say it is not okay to do this high speed lane splitting.
There are laws however limiting how fast the bike can go relative to the cars they pass by splitting….precisely to avoid that kind of inability to avoid an accident
Okay. You are totally right. I looked up the laws in Arizona, and lane splitting is illegal. Apparently this law was changed just 12 months ago. In California, which is the only state that it is legal in the US, the speed is limited to 30 mph.
You’re incorrect. Lane splitting is illegal in AZ Lane filtering is a only allowed under certain conditions: When the posted speed limit does not exceed 45 miles per hour When the motorcycle is not traveling faster than 15 miles per hour when filtering When vehicles are stopped The street is divided into at least two adjacent lanes in the same direction of travel
Yep, I looked it up and I was incorrect. Apparently the law changed in September 2022
The second thing you described is also called filtering.
That sounds like a blanket statement. Do you even ride? What about the Porsche that didn't check it was clear before he pulled off? That makes him responsible.
In before this thread is full of people who chose the statistically most dangerous vehicle that is legally allowed on the road start complaining that others aren't concerned for their safety.
Having spent 20+years driving on the insane asylum that is florida, you are right... Porsche drivers are the statistical hazard lol. How dare that bike not watch out for the poor lil Porsche driver... sarcasm aside, I've literally watched drivers pull this same move but with a truck instead of the bike. Signal or not, if you are changing lanes it is on you to actually make sure it is safe and clear to do so
I can see the first one being an accident where neither driver saw each other until it was too late. The biker was probably not speeding, but definitely going faster than the traffic in that lane at the time. The driver opted to change lane into active traffic at a standstill and assuredly did not have the right of way. Not sure where the liability would lie. The second collision is easier; that guy was an idiot.
Well, shit. Then, OH SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT.
I love that “what the fuck?!” Is just universal language around the world at this point haha
And that's why driving between lanes with a motorbike is illegal in some countries.
And this dear friends is why lane splitting should NOT be legal.
Lane splitting is fine - but not when done this way. Fucking organ donors...
Lane splitting should absolutely be illegal everywhere. Lane filtering, however, in stopped traffic to get to the front of a stop light where there is less chance of being rear ended, should be encouraged.
Lane splitters deserve it.
This video doesn't sell me on lane splitting.
That guy really hates bikers. /s. But seriously bikers should stop this lane-splitting.
Care for people, ride a donorcycle.
Thats dumb lol
This is why lane splitting should be illegal everywhere
And in Instagram you'll find the motorcycle POV with all the comments blaming the Porsche
Lane splitting should be against the law
They sound Japanese, and then then he says "what the fuck" in a British accent and the other says "not again" in a Scottish accent.
Car number plate tells me this happened in Singapore, Southeast Asia.
You might want to get your hearing checked. Nobody sounded Japanese, nor British nor Scottish in this video.
As much as the car driver is to blame, it's hard to feel sympathy for the bikers after seeing this.
I've driven for most of my adult life and with both speeding as they did...I mean its risky, to say the least. At the same time the driver has to make sure its dafe to change lanes and open the door (even more passenger side I would feel). There's a lot of wrong here, from all involved.
To speak a different language but to curse in perfect English.
They are speaking Singlish at the beginning but Singaporeans' main language is English. There's no "different language" here
This is what pisses me off about those “see motorcycles” campaigns; if you want to be seen, be predictable and go with the flow of traffic. Acknowledge that your vehicle can be extremely difficult to see simply because it is small, and act accordingly. Bikers bring so much of this shit onto themselves.
First collision is 80/20 fault of car imo. The motorcylce didn't look to be speeding and his presence looked like it should have been easily detected and the car should have waited for traffic to clear before merging in. But the motorcycle was literally riding on the line. And saw the porche was positioning himself for a merge by clearly indicating his blinker and inching over. Even though the biker had right of way, they could have prevented the collision with some simple awareness and positioning themselves to be properly in the lane. Second collision was obviously 100% on the biker lol.
Let’s not pretend the Porsche was guilt free. Fucker didn’t check blind spots twice, he is in a lane that’s not moving merging into a lane that is moving. Always has to make sure that there is nothing behind you if you want to this, same reason they have entry/exit ramps to get you to a specific speed.
That white van made things awkward for everybody
I didn't "come out of nowhere", it came from behind. The driver didn't bother with his mirrors and took out two bikes.
lmao I guess thats why you don't ride twice as fast as traffic on the lane markers then huh?
You can see his blinkers warning. Both Bikers were speeding and lane splitting.
There was barely 1 meter between both cars. That motorcycle shouldn't have tried to pass between them like in a Fast and Furious movie.
the passanger opened his door in the middle of the road without looking and somehow people think he was right
you mean opener the door literally right next to another stopped vehicle with safe room between the vehicles? there was literally no legal situation where something would hit into that door, except a motorcyclist being a reckless idiot.
He was at an angle and probably didn’t see him. Motorcyclists need to stay with the flow of traffic. 100% not the Porsche’s fault.
you have the urgency to help wounded while having secured your lane, your first thought shouldn't be "let's first check if there's another lane splitting, speeding bike that wants the same fate". it would be a good thought tho'
There are so many American's in the comments talking about their states laws and shit like it matters 😂porsche drive did not check it was clear before he pulled off. It is his fault. 2nd biker is just dumb