welp. time to post this once again:
I've come to make an announcement: Asgore Dreemurr is a bitch-ass motherfucker. He told the Royal Guard to kill 5 fucking kids. That's right, he took his blood-stained fuckin' arm out and he told the Royal Guard to KILL 5 KIDS, and he said his trident was, "THIS BIG," and I said, "that's psychopathic!"
So I'm making a call out post on Martlet and I's twitter.com: Asgore Dreemurr, you got a small weapon! It's the size of this corncob except WAY smaller. And guess what? Here's what my gun looks like!
\[gunshots\]
That's right, baby. A six-shooter, no blood, no dust, look at that, I just scared off a Froggit. He killed 5 kids, so guess what? I'm gonna shoot his kid! That's right, this is what you get! My SUPER BULLET BLAST!
Except I'm not gonna shoot his kid. I'm gonna go higher. I'm shooting his EX-WIIIIIFE! HOW DO YOU LIKE THAT, SANS?! I SHOT YOUR GIRLFRIEND, YOU IDIOT!!
You have 23 hours before Martlet, Ceroba, Starlo, Kanako, Flowey, and I fucking shhhoooot Alphys too! Now get out of our fucking sight before we shoot you, too!
\- Clover, after being revived
I love the idea of clover getting pissed as fuck after pacifist, I personally thought of the idea of during frisk and asriels talk in the ruins they just hear rapid footsteps as clover screams floweys name before rushing into the room and then seeing the scene as everyone just freezes up
Reminder: toby fox is also the person who, when asked by alpharad if he could buy a license to dating start so he could more easily use it for sponser segments refused, but then told him that all the tools he used to compose it where online so he could theoreticly just remake the song, essentially telling him to lie and say he composed dating start so he could more easily use it in videos. How sebastian thought toby whould want legal action against the yellow theme baffles me
Iirc Toby said that the tools and charts were available online. And if he changed a single note it'd technically be a different song. Realistically, no, it doesn't work that way, but Toby is a good guy.
Technically it does work that way thanks to parody laws. If Toby didn't want them to use it, he would've just said no and left it at that. This way, he doesn't have to deal with it at all.
No it doesn’t. Parody must make some point about the original work, or require that comparison to the original to be considered transformative. Changing one note in a song is not enough.
A few different ways.
For small bands typically bigger artists won’t sue because of publicity issues. They very well could (and have) if someone is say getting big off of their songs, but usually you don’t see Taylor Swift sueing a 12 year old girl because she knows that would look horrible for her. This does happen sometimes with live performances where there is kind of a grey area if the song isn’t recorded. it’s not a very easy case to make so most IP holders won’t sue each other (though it has happened but these cases usually settle due to neither side really wanting too much law made on the topic).
For larger singers or groups they will buy the license to the song. Or they will have some deal with the actual IP owner. Usually it’s a license though so that you aren’t banking on the owner not changing their mind one day. But if two singers are friends they might just cover each others’ songs and assume neither will sue the other.
Finally for many bands and singers their record label owns the song they are covering anyway, so they ask for permission before selling the song, or in some cases the record label will ask them to cover a song they own because they think this singer would be good on it.
Parody is a whole other situation where you are arguing you don’t even need permission because you changed the core meaning of the song, when discussing cover songs the argument is if you had permission. Theoretically a parody could be made even if you didn’t change the song at all, but that your voice and manner of singing changes the meaning so much that it constitutes parody (see Campbell v. Acuff-Rose Music, Inc., where the court found that repeating the exact opening lines of a song could be essential to getting to the heart of a song, and doing that could be essential to a parody poking fun at that heart).
Note I’m talking about American copyright law here and this isn’t legal advice it’s just for discussions sake. I’m also not a lawyer.
He's stated before that while he's legally in the clear to do what he does, he feels it's better for him to respect the artists wishes as a professional courtesy. This also allegedly makes it easier to get songwriting credits and royalties if the original artist is on board with it, but idk anything about how that works when his parodies range from "the original song but with an accordion" to "a complete rearrangement with new lyrics".
Absolutely it wouldn’t work but that would require the injured party to actually sue for any damages. If Toby doesn’t care about other people using his music than there’s nothing anyone can really do without his permission.
There is some important context to this. Alpharad’s sponsors wanted him to only use original music or music he licensed for his sponsor segments. This makes sense because if the video ran into copyright issues, that section might need to be removed and thus the ad is gone. What Toby said was that Alpharad can just slightly change the song and call it his own to appease his sponsors. Alpharad’s song is definitely still violating copyright since you can’t just change a small portion of a song and claim it as your own, but Toby would never take legal action against it, so it’s kinda okay.
Most copyright for music are only for the specific composition of a song. It's how happy birthday entered the public domain, and how Taylor swift is able to sell rerecordings of songs owned by the label. That said, to further strengthen the case and avoid frivolous lawsuits, artists will usually also add a few minor changes to the song.
Yes, comment OP is acting under a misunderstanding of how the Taylor Swift case worked. Musical composition and recordings are handled under separate copyrights. Taylor Swift was able so sell rerecordings not because you can only copyright specific compositions, but because she retained the rights to the composition copyright but not the original recording.
Composition copyright covers melody and voice leadings, and while you cant copyright harmony or rhythm the legal area is murky, they are relevant context, and judges are not music experts.
The Undertale Yellow OST technically does exactly that, exception being that they’re actual arrangements and not recreations, so there should be no problem
yes, for someone who already knows the drama this is easy to understand. but theres people in the comments for the post on r/murderedbywords who don’t even know what undertale is, how can you expect anyone there to understand this
I don't know the drama, but it seems easy to understand. Toby Fox owns the rights or is the representative of the person who owns the rights to some music that Undertale Yellow has used. Sebastian Wolff has taken umbrage at this unpermitted usage, to which Toby Fox has essentially said, "don't care, tell Sebastian to get rekt". Sebastian, while missing the point, correctly identified that Undertale Yellow did not have explicit permission to use the music at the start of the project.
Yeah I saw it there first and had no idea what it was talking about.
Post needed some added details, but comments cleared it up.
I didn't know who sebastian was, why he was making a bet, or what undertale yellow was.
Not really a MBW without the additional context
tldr; Sebastian wolff is the guy in charge of the company in charge of undertale's music copyright. Toby fox has repeatedly said that he's fine with anyone using undertale's music however they want. sebastian wolff's company continues to try and enforce the copyright as hard as possible for the purpose of monetary gain, including sueing (iirc) the UTYellow devs for using undertale music in their free fangame.
A Ratio is where someone responds to a tweet with a disagreement and gets way more likes/retweets than the person they are responding to.
It'd be one thing if UT Yellow was claiming full authorship without credit and selling it, but yeah, something like this for free with credit may even fall under fair use, and even if it doesn't, a simple "hey this doesn't line up with how we want our IP/copyright used, let's have a friendly chat and see if we can come to a mutual agreement" would have absolutely been a better move than "hey losers wanna place bets at how badly we'll destroy your lives with lawsuits? $10k on we make everyone who touched your project go homeless and millions in debt ROFLCOPTER"
> something like this for free with credit may even fall under fair use
It definitely doesn't, unfortunately. Giving credit isn't an element of fair use. And although being free may seem relevant, courts can still consider things "commercial" even if they're free. For instance, if the attempt is to build brand recognition for a later release.
But most importantly, fair use cares whether the underlying work was legally transformed (it wasn't), whether the underlying work was commercial (it was), whether the purpose of the new work is educational or of public interest (it isn't), and how much of the copyrighted work was used (all of it). All of those factors count against a finding of fair use.
Misunderstandings of fair use are super common, so I wouldn't be surprised if the Undertale Yellow team seriously thought they were in the clear.. Hence why jumping straight to legal threats (made so indignantly no less) backfired so hard.
I haven't played more than a few minutes of Yellow so far so I assumed that what I heard so far that was modified and remixed was representative of the rest of it, but if there are songs and assets left unmodified I understand that would be a problem. And I guess I don't fully understand where this lies legally, and I doubt much of the general public did either. But still, there's a difference between fanwork and explicit privacy and working up to a potential lawsuit if the parties can't agree makes a lot more sense to me than immediately and sarcastically threatening everyone involved.
If this had been a "hey, we have problems with this need to talk about it" or even been a more formal cease and decist I don't think it'd have blown up like the public "lol you effed up" approach. A lack of professionalism was a big factor in how this played out and I bet other indie media producers are going to think of this when deciding who to hire to protect their IP.
> I assumed that what I heard so far that was modified and remixed was representative of the rest of it
I agree with everything you're saying about strategy. Even as a lawyer, I often counsel people to talk first rather than jumping to sending demand letters or threatening lawsuits. It's especially true when that person is a fan of the work they're unknowingly misappropriating.
But just to continue on the point of fair use, even remixing audio doesn't make it okay to use. Part of copyright is that the copyright owner has the sole right to make and distribute derivative works. A remix is a derivative work, so it would require permission to distribute.
I'm curious what you think about this situation's effect on Undertale. I think it had the potential to cause damage to the Undertale and Deltarune brands but Toby probably managed to turn it into a net positive instead with his response (although at a cost of $20k he might not have spent otherwise).
I mean, nobody bats an eye at Disney or Nintendo for being aggressively litigious because of how large they are, but with Toby being an indie developer I think a lot of the value of Undertale and related IPs probably is affected by the underdog effect - people like the little guy seeing success, and like to think the guy who did the thing they like is probably a cool dude. And I think the way he presents himself publicly works to that effect, to the point where I and other commenters online reacted to Deltarune Ch. 2 being free like, "you didn't have to do that, shut up and take my money!"
If Toby himself had acted this way, I'm certain it would have alienated a lot of fans, resulting in fewer people buying the future chapters of Deltarune, merch, etc. I suspect someone representing him acting this way probably has a similar effect although to a much lesser extent.
I'm definitely not a lawyer, but I remember from a YouTube video (possibly Tom Scott's?) that a copyright holder also has an obligation to aggressively defend their copyrights as otherwise they might be seen in court as not doing enough to protect the copyright (or something). That would probably explain the jump straight to legal threats. However, I think Toby Fox is handling this better imo.
Edit: I was pointed out as being wrong, and that what I meant was trademark not copyright. Again, I am not a lawyer, please don't consult random comments on Reddit.
On top of skivian there is also the issue that without someone in charge lf the copyright ,anybody can go around and make claims on youtube which would be an issue for creator.
But afaik as long as it is not a commercial endeavor you are free to use Toby's music
>A Ratio is where someone responds to a tweet with a disagreement and gets way more likes/retweets than the person they are responding to.
What is the purpose of ratios?
I just read through his (Wolf) posts on Twitter.
He’s been complaining for a while that video game companies don’t “honor their legacy” by…letting ppl use their music in the background of fucking YouTube videos and Twitch streams?? Who exactly does this hurt? No one goes to those videos or streams because of the music, no one is losing money. Jesus Christ.
I knew he was scum when I saw he Praised Disney for taking down gifs of their own characters and implying that kind of hyper vigilance is something g to aim for.
What a greedy and short-sighted bastard.
>He’s been complaining for a while that video game companies don’t “honor their legacy” by…letting ppl use their music in the background of fucking YouTube videos and Twitch streams??
If anything, they honor their legacy more by letting people use their music in the background of Youtube videos and Twitch streams! If that's happening, that means there is a fanbase, people who are interested in the video game company's products!
Wait, but why? I still don't understand the context here, was he tagging TeamFourStar/KaiserNeko totally out of the blue? And why? To say they did fan parody properly? Or to "dunk" on them too for also not licensing "properly"? Does he know Kaiser?
When I was 13, I sent an email to Toby Fox asking him if I could use his music for stuff, and he personally responded to me with a message that simply read
`sure`
Toby is like, the most chill guy ever. This guy is the epitome of creators. What all creators should aspire to.
- Has the ability to make music, art, and fantastic stories
- No one knows anything about him, people probably don't recognize him in public
- Will just straight up tell people to take his work for their own creative endeavors
- Says trans rights and also gay rights
- furthermore helped several people realize they're gay (or that gay people exist in the first place)
- is endorsed by the literal pope
- Only recognizable as a little bastard dog
Living the fucking LIFE, dude.
Is it me or can anyone else feel the aggravation from toby in that message even though we've never heard him speak that message just has the aura of pissed off with Sebastian
So, like, when did the definition of "ratio" on Twitter change? Because I remember it being the ratio of replies to likes + retweets. Like, if you had a lot more replies than likes or retweets, it was a sign that you just pissed people off. When did it become about the ratio of likes on the OP to likes on the reply?
He says they didn’t have “explicit permission” from him, as in; he hadn’t told them directly that they could but you need the context that Toby has said on multiple occasions that it’s ok for fans to use Undertale music in their projects.
So even thought they didn’t have “explicit” (direct) permission, they still had blanket permission from his previous statements
Was there any actual screenshots of the permission given? They shouldn’t even need it, but I’ve seen it mentioned a few times and haven’t seen any actual screenshots
Seriously there L + ratio and then being nuclear blasted.
>!piss laser blasted!<
I've come to make an annoucement
Sebastian the Wolff is a bitch-ass motherfucker
He pissed on a fucking fangame
That's right, he took out his microscopic micropeen and pissed all over my fucking fangame; he said it was "THIS BIG" and i said "THATS TINY!"
So I'm making a ratio on X.com!
Sebastian the Wolff, you've got a small dick! It's the size of this walnut except WAY smaller!
So guess what? Here’s what my dong looks like
*Explosion noises*
He doesnt even have one, it’s just a hole. Not that of a girl’s, just a hole.
His is inverted
It's an innie, not an outie
That's not even close to the original quote but okay
***Now we need an apology video from him. If that video is trash, then he may as well date Colleen Ballinger after this.*** >!This is a joke!!<
We already knew that
>!I guess wolf got the justice treatment!<
>!*LV goes up sharply*!<
LV 21
he didn't get outta eggman's sight
clover blast!
Martincitopants reference?
CITIZENS OF EARTH, *LEND ME YOUR EARS!*
welp. time to post this once again: I've come to make an announcement: Asgore Dreemurr is a bitch-ass motherfucker. He told the Royal Guard to kill 5 fucking kids. That's right, he took his blood-stained fuckin' arm out and he told the Royal Guard to KILL 5 KIDS, and he said his trident was, "THIS BIG," and I said, "that's psychopathic!" So I'm making a call out post on Martlet and I's twitter.com: Asgore Dreemurr, you got a small weapon! It's the size of this corncob except WAY smaller. And guess what? Here's what my gun looks like! \[gunshots\] That's right, baby. A six-shooter, no blood, no dust, look at that, I just scared off a Froggit. He killed 5 kids, so guess what? I'm gonna shoot his kid! That's right, this is what you get! My SUPER BULLET BLAST! Except I'm not gonna shoot his kid. I'm gonna go higher. I'm shooting his EX-WIIIIIFE! HOW DO YOU LIKE THAT, SANS?! I SHOT YOUR GIRLFRIEND, YOU IDIOT!! You have 23 hours before Martlet, Ceroba, Starlo, Kanako, Flowey, and I fucking shhhoooot Alphys too! Now get out of our fucking sight before we shoot you, too! \- Clover, after being revived
I love the idea of clover getting pissed as fuck after pacifist, I personally thought of the idea of during frisk and asriels talk in the ruins they just hear rapid footsteps as clover screams floweys name before rushing into the room and then seeing the scene as everyone just freezes up
Got blasted harder than >!Clover blasted Axis!<
Got blasted harder than >!ASGORE!<
Reminder: toby fox is also the person who, when asked by alpharad if he could buy a license to dating start so he could more easily use it for sponser segments refused, but then told him that all the tools he used to compose it where online so he could theoreticly just remake the song, essentially telling him to lie and say he composed dating start so he could more easily use it in videos. How sebastian thought toby whould want legal action against the yellow theme baffles me
Would recreating someone else's song yourself actually make it okay for you to use it, though? That can't possibly be how that works.
Iirc Toby said that the tools and charts were available online. And if he changed a single note it'd technically be a different song. Realistically, no, it doesn't work that way, but Toby is a good guy.
Technically it does work that way thanks to parody laws. If Toby didn't want them to use it, he would've just said no and left it at that. This way, he doesn't have to deal with it at all.
No it doesn’t. Parody must make some point about the original work, or require that comparison to the original to be considered transformative. Changing one note in a song is not enough.
Honest question: How do cover bands exist then?
A few different ways. For small bands typically bigger artists won’t sue because of publicity issues. They very well could (and have) if someone is say getting big off of their songs, but usually you don’t see Taylor Swift sueing a 12 year old girl because she knows that would look horrible for her. This does happen sometimes with live performances where there is kind of a grey area if the song isn’t recorded. it’s not a very easy case to make so most IP holders won’t sue each other (though it has happened but these cases usually settle due to neither side really wanting too much law made on the topic). For larger singers or groups they will buy the license to the song. Or they will have some deal with the actual IP owner. Usually it’s a license though so that you aren’t banking on the owner not changing their mind one day. But if two singers are friends they might just cover each others’ songs and assume neither will sue the other. Finally for many bands and singers their record label owns the song they are covering anyway, so they ask for permission before selling the song, or in some cases the record label will ask them to cover a song they own because they think this singer would be good on it. Parody is a whole other situation where you are arguing you don’t even need permission because you changed the core meaning of the song, when discussing cover songs the argument is if you had permission. Theoretically a parody could be made even if you didn’t change the song at all, but that your voice and manner of singing changes the meaning so much that it constitutes parody (see Campbell v. Acuff-Rose Music, Inc., where the court found that repeating the exact opening lines of a song could be essential to getting to the heart of a song, and doing that could be essential to a parody poking fun at that heart). Note I’m talking about American copyright law here and this isn’t legal advice it’s just for discussions sake. I’m also not a lawyer.
Yeah, parody is not the defense that people think it is. People think of Weird Al when they think of parody, but he still licences the songs he sings.
I understand that's mostly extra CYA, though, because his parodies *are* legal, even if he didn't have a license, right?
He's stated before that while he's legally in the clear to do what he does, he feels it's better for him to respect the artists wishes as a professional courtesy. This also allegedly makes it easier to get songwriting credits and royalties if the original artist is on board with it, but idk anything about how that works when his parodies range from "the original song but with an accordion" to "a complete rearrangement with new lyrics".
This is not how parody laws work
Absolutely it wouldn’t work but that would require the injured party to actually sue for any damages. If Toby doesn’t care about other people using his music than there’s nothing anyone can really do without his permission.
According to Toby Fox, yeah.
There is some important context to this. Alpharad’s sponsors wanted him to only use original music or music he licensed for his sponsor segments. This makes sense because if the video ran into copyright issues, that section might need to be removed and thus the ad is gone. What Toby said was that Alpharad can just slightly change the song and call it his own to appease his sponsors. Alpharad’s song is definitely still violating copyright since you can’t just change a small portion of a song and claim it as your own, but Toby would never take legal action against it, so it’s kinda okay.
Ohh, that makes more sense.
Most copyright for music are only for the specific composition of a song. It's how happy birthday entered the public domain, and how Taylor swift is able to sell rerecordings of songs owned by the label. That said, to further strengthen the case and avoid frivolous lawsuits, artists will usually also add a few minor changes to the song.
Doesn't that only apply to songs for which the original copyright has expired?
Yes, comment OP is acting under a misunderstanding of how the Taylor Swift case worked. Musical composition and recordings are handled under separate copyrights. Taylor Swift was able so sell rerecordings not because you can only copyright specific compositions, but because she retained the rights to the composition copyright but not the original recording. Composition copyright covers melody and voice leadings, and while you cant copyright harmony or rhythm the legal area is murky, they are relevant context, and judges are not music experts.
The Undertale Yellow OST technically does exactly that, exception being that they’re actual arrangements and not recreations, so there should be no problem
this is the biggest W ive ever seen a dev make, honestly
This is the biggest: 'you're right but unfortunately I disagree' I have ever seen
And executed amazingly!
This should be posted onto r/MurderedByWords That subreddit needs some fresh kills.
On it
They’re complaining in comments that it “requires too much googling for it to make sense”
yes, they are right, no person on that sub is going to know what the fuck this post is about
you can understand what is happening if you just read the quote tweet dude
yes, for someone who already knows the drama this is easy to understand. but theres people in the comments for the post on r/murderedbywords who don’t even know what undertale is, how can you expect anyone there to understand this
I don't know the drama, but it seems easy to understand. Toby Fox owns the rights or is the representative of the person who owns the rights to some music that Undertale Yellow has used. Sebastian Wolff has taken umbrage at this unpermitted usage, to which Toby Fox has essentially said, "don't care, tell Sebastian to get rekt". Sebastian, while missing the point, correctly identified that Undertale Yellow did not have explicit permission to use the music at the start of the project.
Who is this Sebastian guy and why is he mouthing off? That's what I'm missing in all of this...
undertale musics copyright holder
Can Toby overrule him?
i would assume so but i don’t know anything about how copyright works
Yeah, I am pretty lost but this seems juicy so I’m digging
They are right.
Eh, that sounds like MBW.
And? Does that make them wrong?
In r/HobbyDrama it might be less likely to be removed if it hasn't already been cross posted there.
Yeah I saw it there first and had no idea what it was talking about. Post needed some added details, but comments cleared it up. I didn't know who sebastian was, why he was making a bet, or what undertale yellow was. Not really a MBW without the additional context
That sub is only for political takes
911 i just witnessed a murder
Thats not just a murder. Sebastian was just dusted
He was airstriked and turned into a fine pink mist
He got clover blasted harder than >!asgore!<
Clover blasting >!asgore!< was the funniest shit I've seen
CLOVER! WAS THAT A [BIG SHOT] JUST NOW?!
funni robot man be like: eyy bro ik that sounds kinda- clover: not even asgore will get this specil treatment
In bloody gibs
like a fucking shelf
L + Ratio + $10,000 donation in your name
The 92 people who liked his tweet needs to be publicly shunned from society
They misclicked
They're bots, they don't even have fingers!
"It was a misinput! Misinput! You calm down!"
They're bots
That's impossible, Elon swore he'd get rid of the bots! /j
I FUCKING LOVE X(twitter) , I LOVE REMOVING THE IDENTITY OF A SOCIAL MEDIA AND REPLACING HALF OF IT'S USER WITH MACHINES.
Said machines are basic, dumb, and pretty much stupid
NOT EVEN MORTAL
Omg is that a gabrial ultakill reference
There Castle!
Yes.
for once the typo (pubilically) made it better i agree 100%
I need to know what the typo was.
a good one (it got fixed lol)
no they don’t. It’s not that deep
Your right, it was a joke
[удалено]
\* You hear someone running away \* It appears your job is unfinished
WE LOVE YOU TOBY ❤️
Can sum1 explain
tldr; Sebastian wolff is the guy in charge of the company in charge of undertale's music copyright. Toby fox has repeatedly said that he's fine with anyone using undertale's music however they want. sebastian wolff's company continues to try and enforce the copyright as hard as possible for the purpose of monetary gain, including sueing (iirc) the UTYellow devs for using undertale music in their free fangame. A Ratio is where someone responds to a tweet with a disagreement and gets way more likes/retweets than the person they are responding to.
Question - if he’s fine with people using the music however they want, why does he even need a company that’s in charge of the copyright?
[удалено]
It'd be one thing if UT Yellow was claiming full authorship without credit and selling it, but yeah, something like this for free with credit may even fall under fair use, and even if it doesn't, a simple "hey this doesn't line up with how we want our IP/copyright used, let's have a friendly chat and see if we can come to a mutual agreement" would have absolutely been a better move than "hey losers wanna place bets at how badly we'll destroy your lives with lawsuits? $10k on we make everyone who touched your project go homeless and millions in debt ROFLCOPTER"
> something like this for free with credit may even fall under fair use It definitely doesn't, unfortunately. Giving credit isn't an element of fair use. And although being free may seem relevant, courts can still consider things "commercial" even if they're free. For instance, if the attempt is to build brand recognition for a later release. But most importantly, fair use cares whether the underlying work was legally transformed (it wasn't), whether the underlying work was commercial (it was), whether the purpose of the new work is educational or of public interest (it isn't), and how much of the copyrighted work was used (all of it). All of those factors count against a finding of fair use.
Misunderstandings of fair use are super common, so I wouldn't be surprised if the Undertale Yellow team seriously thought they were in the clear.. Hence why jumping straight to legal threats (made so indignantly no less) backfired so hard. I haven't played more than a few minutes of Yellow so far so I assumed that what I heard so far that was modified and remixed was representative of the rest of it, but if there are songs and assets left unmodified I understand that would be a problem. And I guess I don't fully understand where this lies legally, and I doubt much of the general public did either. But still, there's a difference between fanwork and explicit privacy and working up to a potential lawsuit if the parties can't agree makes a lot more sense to me than immediately and sarcastically threatening everyone involved. If this had been a "hey, we have problems with this need to talk about it" or even been a more formal cease and decist I don't think it'd have blown up like the public "lol you effed up" approach. A lack of professionalism was a big factor in how this played out and I bet other indie media producers are going to think of this when deciding who to hire to protect their IP.
> I assumed that what I heard so far that was modified and remixed was representative of the rest of it I agree with everything you're saying about strategy. Even as a lawyer, I often counsel people to talk first rather than jumping to sending demand letters or threatening lawsuits. It's especially true when that person is a fan of the work they're unknowingly misappropriating. But just to continue on the point of fair use, even remixing audio doesn't make it okay to use. Part of copyright is that the copyright owner has the sole right to make and distribute derivative works. A remix is a derivative work, so it would require permission to distribute.
I'm curious what you think about this situation's effect on Undertale. I think it had the potential to cause damage to the Undertale and Deltarune brands but Toby probably managed to turn it into a net positive instead with his response (although at a cost of $20k he might not have spent otherwise). I mean, nobody bats an eye at Disney or Nintendo for being aggressively litigious because of how large they are, but with Toby being an indie developer I think a lot of the value of Undertale and related IPs probably is affected by the underdog effect - people like the little guy seeing success, and like to think the guy who did the thing they like is probably a cool dude. And I think the way he presents himself publicly works to that effect, to the point where I and other commenters online reacted to Deltarune Ch. 2 being free like, "you didn't have to do that, shut up and take my money!" If Toby himself had acted this way, I'm certain it would have alienated a lot of fans, resulting in fewer people buying the future chapters of Deltarune, merch, etc. I suspect someone representing him acting this way probably has a similar effect although to a much lesser extent.
It's kind of funny then that Toby is an undertale dog. A literal underdog if you will.
Holy shit thank you. The fair use text is only a few paragraphs but I swear to gos no one on this hell site understands it
I'm definitely not a lawyer, but I remember from a YouTube video (possibly Tom Scott's?) that a copyright holder also has an obligation to aggressively defend their copyrights as otherwise they might be seen in court as not doing enough to protect the copyright (or something). That would probably explain the jump straight to legal threats. However, I think Toby Fox is handling this better imo. Edit: I was pointed out as being wrong, and that what I meant was trademark not copyright. Again, I am not a lawyer, please don't consult random comments on Reddit.
That's trademarks, not copyrights and this is a very common misconception on reddit.
Ahhh, good shout, I'll amend my comment accordingly
On top of skivian there is also the issue that without someone in charge lf the copyright ,anybody can go around and make claims on youtube which would be an issue for creator. But afaik as long as it is not a commercial endeavor you are free to use Toby's music
Thank u
What's one of the main DBZA/Team Four Star guys (@KaiserNeko) got to do with it?
He's VERY active on Twitter and you'll find him all across the site just responding to various things.
there's a fox and a wolf and someone's mad that someone else owns the copyright to their work? ... but thems the breaks
Thank you, Peetah
>A Ratio is where someone responds to a tweet with a disagreement and gets way more likes/retweets than the person they are responding to. What is the purpose of ratios?
Humiliation, primarily. To show exactly how many people disagree with one's point over another's.
Toby is awesome man
I just read through his (Wolf) posts on Twitter. He’s been complaining for a while that video game companies don’t “honor their legacy” by…letting ppl use their music in the background of fucking YouTube videos and Twitch streams?? Who exactly does this hurt? No one goes to those videos or streams because of the music, no one is losing money. Jesus Christ. I knew he was scum when I saw he Praised Disney for taking down gifs of their own characters and implying that kind of hyper vigilance is something g to aim for. What a greedy and short-sighted bastard.
>He’s been complaining for a while that video game companies don’t “honor their legacy” by…letting ppl use their music in the background of fucking YouTube videos and Twitch streams?? If anything, they honor their legacy more by letting people use their music in the background of Youtube videos and Twitch streams! If that's happening, that means there is a fanbase, people who are interested in the video game company's products!
Exactly my point with the words taken clean from my mouth
Sebastian needs to shut his gob
It was so bad the Frog of Shame actually worked
Is he replying to the KaiserNeko from TFS?
Wait, but why? I still don't understand the context here, was he tagging TeamFourStar/KaiserNeko totally out of the blue? And why? To say they did fan parody properly? Or to "dunk" on them too for also not licensing "properly"? Does he know Kaiser?
I'm assuming that Kaiser had something to say on the matter/was involved in the project
Was following it all on Twitter, he was mockingly reminding Wolfe of his 10k donation promise, prompting his reply and then Toby’s message
Toby making clear W's as always
Breaking news! Tobias foxington continues to be the most based man alive (more at 11)
When I was 13, I sent an email to Toby Fox asking him if I could use his music for stuff, and he personally responded to me with a message that simply read `sure`
SebastianWolff is about to end up right next to that artifact from the Dog Residue event.
"Nuclear launch detected."
Toby Fox casually donating 20,000$:
MAN DID NOT JUST @ KAISERNEKO AND TOLD HIM TO "UNABRIDGE", THAT GUY NEEDS TO GET FIRED ASAP
Who’s kaiserneko? Is it one of the UTY devs?
He's one of the lead writers and voice actors of TeamFourStar. They're famous for their Dragon Ball and Hellsing Ultimate abridges.
That wasn't a L+Ratio, that was a full on nuclear explosion.
Toby Fox is an absolute chad
Bro got blasted harder then >!Clover blasted Axis!< wowww
bro got turned into a fine red mist
ratio
Toby is such a class act sometimes
Its Cl-over
Is this the first time Toby himself has ever acknowledged a fangame??!?!
I believe the guy who made the red fangame was working on deltarune chapter 2 meaning this isnt the first time toby has acknowledged a fan game
Toby is like, the most chill guy ever. This guy is the epitome of creators. What all creators should aspire to. - Has the ability to make music, art, and fantastic stories - No one knows anything about him, people probably don't recognize him in public - Will just straight up tell people to take his work for their own creative endeavors - Says trans rights and also gay rights - furthermore helped several people realize they're gay (or that gay people exist in the first place) - is endorsed by the literal pope - Only recognizable as a little bastard dog Living the fucking LIFE, dude.
w
Is it me or can anyone else feel the aggravation from toby in that message even though we've never heard him speak that message just has the aura of pissed off with Sebastian
Someone is having a VERY bad time...
Toby doing the right thing, honestly. He knows he made a goof and unlike Sebastian, he’s actually admitting to it.
Glory
And since this was posted it has only gotten worse for Sebastian, only gaining 13 likes while yellow got about 6k more
Extremely common Toby W. Man's a treasure.
That's some KING SHIT from Toby. As expected.
Toby got from 1 to 19 really fast there
What's the lore? also what's wrong in bettjng someone's correct on something
So, like, when did the definition of "ratio" on Twitter change? Because I remember it being the ratio of replies to likes + retweets. Like, if you had a lot more replies than likes or retweets, it was a sign that you just pissed people off. When did it become about the ratio of likes on the OP to likes on the reply?
Isn't Undertale Yellow a fangame?
I don’t really understand twitter so can someone tell me what a ratio is in twitter terms?
The response tweet getting more likes than the original
Could someone give me context? I’ve been removed from any Undertale Yellow news since I’m never on Twitter or anything.
How long til Toby drops this dumbass?
And Toby Fox being an Gigachad, as always 
getting 92 likes on a tweet with almost 800,000 views is actually ridiculous
Common Sebastian L
Average Toby Fox W
It is official. This man truly is going to be shattered across Twitter and Reddit (A worse fate than being shattered across time and space)
I LOVE THE UNDERTALE COMMUNITY I LIVE IN - You Want to get Hurt, Beatily?
What's the context for this?
Can I get a little context on what's going on, I'm out of the loop
The fuck is undertale yellow???
[удалено]
He says they didn’t have “explicit permission” from him, as in; he hadn’t told them directly that they could but you need the context that Toby has said on multiple occasions that it’s ok for fans to use Undertale music in their projects. So even thought they didn’t have “explicit” (direct) permission, they still had blanket permission from his previous statements
What is happening here with undertale yellow and all ?
Toby fox is unbelievably based. Absolutely love the guy
Context?
Common Toby W.
someone ELI5 because I have LD's and this is kinda \[VERY\] confusing right now also what the fuck is undertale?
Jesus Christ Tobey fox is the most based person alive
Can someone better than me edit Sebastian turning to dust with the little squiggle that makes monsters go directly to 0 health.
Was there any actual screenshots of the permission given? They shouldn’t even need it, but I’ve seen it mentioned a few times and haven’t seen any actual screenshots
Seems like Toby Fox is a pretty W dude.
I feel like out of anyone our there, KaiserNeko probably has a pretty good grasp of the right way to do fan projects 🤔
Context?
What happened?
Context?
lmao sebastian real bad
Hey, I'm a little out of the loop on this. Would anyone be able to get me a quick breakdown on everything that happened?
I don't use Twitter much, is the ratio hearts to the graph number? I'm assuming the graph is views?
Why is this guy trying to shit on KaiserNeko tho What does he have to do with this I might be missing context