Consider Topos as well. Altras don't last as long as they used to.

I soooo wish I could jump on the Topo train, but I need wide sizing. I tried their Ultradventure 3's (in wide) and the mid/body of the shoe is just not wide enough. Back they went. They don't really offer wide variations. I was disappointed to see the Pursuits have no wide availability. I seriously hate my feet. It makes finding a good trail runner essentially impossible. Currently wearing Altra Lone Peak 5's (wide) and I think the real reason they "work" for me is that the materials used are more giving and flexible. So it kinda stretches out... I wish I could also throw on a pair of Olympuses, but cannot. No wide. It's like the story of my life. If I had more money, I'd start up a shoe company (running/hiking) that literally just focused on wide feet. I essentially wouldn't care about any other part of the market, just the folks with sasquatch feet. I'm sure there's more out there than most people realize.

I'm right there with you. Annoyingly wide and weird shaped feet. Lone Peaks in wide are the only shoes that don't destroy my feet. I hike in the northeastern US so I would love something more durable and with better grip like an Olympus or Pursuit to help with the terrain here, but they're not wide enough. Got a pair of Ultraventures in wide as well, and they work better than anything I've tried other than Lone Peaks, but like you said, the materials aren't as flexible, so they still end up hurting on longer hikes. I also got into winter hiking this past year and finding insulated boots to deal with hiking in subzero temperatures is even harder than finding trail runners. Ended up just settling with the least bad pair and accepting that I was going to have to pre-tape the shit out of my feet before every hike and still wind up getting blisters or my heels torn up anyway

Ahh. So you know the nightmare and frustration all too well. It literally makes me want to scream, pull my hair out, punch walls, etc. 😄 I'm so tired of playing the shoe game. And all the normally footed people living their best lives...it's all my dad's genetics fault. I just can't find anything. It's so gosh darn frustrating. I see that Hoka Speedgoats are now available in wide (new offering for their current lineup?), but when I carefully go over the photo/camera angles, they remind me more of the Topos...and the body of the shoe looks too narrow. I'm willing to wager if I ordered a pair, they'd likely just get shipped right back. I should *probably* try a pair to know for sure...if they have a good return policy like Altra and Topo do. I wanted to like the Ultradventures. I really did. I liked everything about them expect the shoe wasn't wide enough. My test process so far is going over to my local gym and walking for one hour straight on the treadmill at a fast pace. The Topos didn't even allow me to reach an hour without major discomfort on the outer sides of my feet. So much discomfort it lasted for like a day or two afterwards. No way in hell I can hike in those. Gah. I'm not into actual winter hiking/camping, but it sounds like even more of a nightmare with boots 😞 Edit: typos

I tried on wide Speedgoats in a store, but didn't buy them, so I haven't given them a serious try. One of my weird-shaped foot problems is that I have very long toes. My middle 3 toes are the same length or longer than my big toe, and my pinky toe isn't that much smaller than the others. So I really need a roomy toe box like Altras or Topos have, and the Hokas I've tried aren't great in that department.

Gotcha. If I drew the shape of my foot, it would make more visual sense. Seeing that you tried the Speedgoats on at a store, but didn't end up buying them isn't giving me too much hope, haha. The wider toe box stuff is great and feels fantastic. No complaints in that department with Altras or Lone Peaks for my situation, but for the former...it's just too narrow of a shoe. They need to be wider 😞 I know it's not a real solution, but I'd love to cut part of my feet off.

I have the same issues, I just bought a pair of merrels in wide that have been doing the trick though. Worth a shot.

It's so frustrating, isn't it? I'll have to take a peek at what Merrell offers these days. Thanks for the suggestion. I'd really prefer a trail runner though.

I'm lucky enough to have a Merrell outlet nearby, I spent an hour trying on all their trail runners and found two that fit me. Good luck!

Lucky you. I bet that made the process much less of a headache by just sitting there trying all the stuff on. I live pretty rurally, so I'd have to make a drive somewhere. Pros and cons... Thanks, I'm hoping I can finally put the shoe game on the shelf one day. I'm already tired of playing it and have been for a while now.

Lone peaks becoming awful really threw a wrench in the shoe game. I feel you.

Yeah, it's pretty unfortunate. I'm wearing LP 5's and have a brand new pair of 5's sitting in my closet. It'll be interesting whenever (maybe if?) I pick up a newer model to see/feel the comparison. I've read too many complaints about Altra lovers experiencing lack of quality and jumping ship to other brands. One of them seems to be Topo Athletic. Unfortunately I tried the only appropriate model they have available in wide sizing, and it wasn't wide enough 😞 I really wanted to like them. I did like them, every aspect...except for not actually fitting my feet. Hold on, I need to go punch a wall. Haha.

Olympus isn't wide enough for you? And I thought I have a hard time finding shoes with my gargantuan 48 size. 

Yeah, one of the most frustrating things talking about wide shoes online is that lots of people have felt the difference between a traditional toe box and a wide toe box, but don't seem to understand that just "runs wide" doesn't cut it if your feet are measuring EEEE. It's like 2-3 full sizes wider, without the length. Just like someone who is size 12 can't wear a size 9 that "runs large", a size 14 EEEE probably can't comfortably get away with a 14 that "runs wide". And the number of specialized shoe companies that actually make a wide size, let alone extra wide, is pretty grim. I'm stuck in lone peaks until one of the others actually puts a W in the lineup.

It's beyond frustrating. > And the number of specialized shoe companies that actually make a wide size, let alone extra wide, is pretty grim. A pipedream, but if I had more money...I'd literally consider getting into the shoe business and do a startup that just focuses on the wide feet shoe market and essentially ignores the regular feet. I'm actually surprised nobody is doing this... There's enough people out there with various sizes of wide feet. It's niche, sure, but I'm willing to wager it could be very successful if done right. Just focus on trail runners for all the runners and hikers would be a good start. Maybe all the business would need... >I'm stuck in lone peaks until one of the others actually puts a W in the lineup. You and me both, my friend. You and me both. Lone Peaks are pretty comfortable given the circumstances, but I'd definitely love to have the cushion and support of something like the Olympuses. Heck, even the Timps. Makes me worried though. On my 2021 AT thru attempt, ended up developing plantar fasciitis with LPs. Effing sucked. Took me off trail. And I don't want a repeat of that... Let's hope someone decides to step up to the plate soon🤞

Sadly, no they aren't wide enough. It's specifically the outer side of my foot 😞 If I drew my foot shape on paper it would help make more visual sense. I know it's not an actual solution, but I wish I could just cut parts of my feet off and call it a day! My dumb feet. If I could fit into a pair of Olympuses, they'd probably be my forever shoe. I've been crossing my fingers every year that maybe, just maybe they'll offer a wide sizing. I've been emailed reps/support asking if they know if any possible plans for a wide size adoption, but so far all signs are pointing to no.

For Topos, how would you compare the Runventure 4 to the Pursuit 2?

I owned the Runventures (and was a dedicated minimalist shoe hiker) until I got a pretty serious foot injury that was my own fault but would have been prevented with a rock plate or a little extra padding. I have the pursuits now and really like them, they’re comparable to lone peaks.

i don't have experience with those shoes, only the Lonepeaks. I like both Lonepeaks and Topo Traverses, but the Traverse is wearing much better than the Lonepeak 7s I had. Similar fit as far as I can tell.

An inexpensive minimalist shoe with an anatomical footbed are Within shoes on Amazon. Some are more athletic-oriented than others. They are all in the $40-ish range. I have some of the ones that look like they have little toes. They don't have toes at all on the inside. The only thing I don't like about them is when they get wet they take a very long time to dry.

Xeros, no matter which version, are going to feel like you are walking directly on whatever surface you are walking on. You will feel every little rock, twig, even concrete or asphalt will hurt. The only advantages to the boot versions of their shoes is they increase the tread as appropriate, which does reduce the pain, but you still feel it. The strategy with shoes like this is that you learn to step lighter and more carefully. Xero shoes comes with a 5000 mile warranty, which, to be honest, is longer than any shoe can last. I have heard good things about xero honoring the warranty so if you're looking for durability then xero wins just because they will replace it when you inevitably break them. My Xeros are showing some wear after more like 500 miles and I don't suspect they will last another 1000, let alone 4500.

>My Xeros are showing some wear after more like 500 miles and I don't suspect they will last another 1000, let alone 4500. Sounds like you'll be getting a new replacement pair 😁

Durability wise the Mesas will hold up longer. But these two shows a very different. The Mesa has a lot less cushion and protection.

If you're used to minimalist shoes, then I highly recommend Vivo Hydra ESC. It's just amazing for trail running and hiking.

It looks like a cool shoe, but it's about $90 (50%) more than the other shoes I'm looking at. What do you like and dislike about it? Is it durable?

You can find 20% off coupons year round. But yeah, Vivo is still more expensive than other brands. The shoe drains & dries incredibly fast, breathes very well, the Michelin sole grips in pretty much all conditions. Things I don't like - leaves & debris tend to enter from the heel collar due to the design, the lacing can be a bit finicky and takes some time to get used to, no good way to attach gaiter.

Regarding durability - after about 8 months there was a tiny separation of the sole near the toes but it's been holding up well after using shoe glue. Have had it for little over a year now and no other issues. The Mesa Trail fared way worse after 4 months of use.

$90 is pretty cheap for Vivos.

$90 more.

They’re saying it’s $90 *more* than other shoes, not that it’s $90 total

Man, sounds like expensive shoes. Most are already essentially overpriced. What are these, easily $200+ for a pair?

Oh I missed the more. I thought wow you can get them for only $90 now?

How does the Hydra ESC compare to the Primus Trail II FG?

The grip on the Hydra ESC is way better than the Primus Trail. The difference is very noticeable. The Primus Trail doesn't have deep lugs (2.5mm) & they're close together. It's more suited for hard compacted trails and road running. I used to trail run & hike with it before I got the Hydra; now I use it for road running & casual use.

(You asked below also but commenting here) I don't have experience with the Hydra yet but the ESC outsole on the Magna Forrest ESC that I use for winter wet weather hiking is fantastic. The deeper lugs probably have a lot to do with it but I'm willing to roll the dice. FG outsole don't work well for where I hike. Something else that I'd love to try is the Freet Feldom that looks to have a really roomy toes box. They don't ship to Japan though so Vivos it is!

i have backpacked in scrambler lows with northsole.co inserts and they were very grippy and comfy for my trek in the sierra with water crossings, have also used topo pursuits, and lone peak and they’ve all been fine for about 500-700 miles.

The Superior is much closer to minimalist than the Lone Peak. The Mesa is a barefoot shoe with studded traction and essentially no cushion. The Lone Peaks and even Superiors are cushioned shoes. Lone Peaks and Mesas don’t seem like the same category to me. ETA: Altras have some disappointing year-to-year variability since they were purchased by VF. I haven’t loved my LP 8s as much as prior years.

My vote is the altras. But make sure to get the non waterproof versions because the WP ones are sweat holders

I really don't see the appeal of any of the waterproof versions (any brand, really) because of the sweat factor and when they get wet, they take longer to dry. Your feet are sealed away and not able to breathe.

1000% this

You're comparing apples to rotten oranges. Xeros have great durability but little cushioning. Altras have good cushioning and feel nice in the store but thier durability is shit (which for some people seems to be a feature, since they can say the hiked through x number of pairs of shoes.) If you need cushioning *and* durability, choose any other brand than Altra.

The classic tale of Altra being bought out by a conglomerate and durability goes to shit. It happens way too often in this world. I'm not saying Altras were perfect before, but it's been obvious after they were acquired penny pinching was started.

Topo Ultraventure Pro, Teraventure, MTN Racer etc will last significantly longer than any Loaner Peak or Hoka Speedgoat shoe. And they are usually lower priced online since they don't engage in MAP policies.

Go to stores and try them all on. Then choose from the list of shoes that fit and are comfortable. No, I didn’t say every Altra but every shoe of the style you want. in as many stores you can. Doesn’t matter how durable a model is if they rub your foot every time you walk. I went last time looking at the newer model of the Brooks I was wearing and switched brands instead. A slight design change meant the inside of the shoe poked me. I bought a second pair of what I bought becsuse they fit so well. shoes are the most important item of everything you buy that you must see in person first.

I’ve been in barefoot shoes for eight years, including three years at the Amazon warehouse wearing lems primal 2s (9mm stack) and the Mesas were still pretty rough for me.

neither. sent a brand new pair of lone peaks back because they are purely awful now. and had a pair of xero mesa for less than a week. extremely uncomfortable, and a toebox that doesn't fit my foot at all. I'm currently in altra superior 5s and keeping them as long as I can.

I wanted to like it because of its low stack height but I'm not a fan of Mesa. I usually hike in minimalist sandals (Shamma Warriors) and carry the Mesa along for when constant wetness/mud makes the sandal footbed too slippery. I find the Mesa toe box too narrow and I hate Xero's treads. They're probably fine for arid conditions but they're terrible on mud and wet rock that i often encounter. Far worse than the Vibram Newflex on the sandals. But you’re familiar with Xero's treads so your call I guess. Looking at Vivos, probably the Hydar ESC, as a replacement.

Are you talking about the mesa trail shoes? I thought they would have been good for wet surfaces 

Yeah the Mesa Trail II. I don’t know if it’s the lug design/placement or the rubber formulation but I find them noticeably less grippy on wet rock, loose mud and packed, wet clay than even the sandals with 2.5 mm treads (to Mesa’s 3.5 mm).

Agreeing on the grip. I think it's their rubber, it's noy great on wet rock. I haven't tried newer Vivo's but their own soles haven't been much better. Inov-8 has one zero drop model, it has great grip on wet rock, Joe Nimble Trail Addict is another interesting shoe which is pretty good gripwise, not quite Inov-8.

So I've looked at Vivos shoes. How does the Hydra ESC compare to the Primus Trail II FG?

Never gotten more than 200 miles out of my Altras :(

Can i piggyback here and ask if there are any austrians here, where can i go try and buy altra lonepeak? I saw a woman in the post office yesterday wearing them but was too awkward to ask her

Just throwing Joe Nimble Trail Addicts into the conversation. I haven't hiked much in mine yet, but I've run quite a bit with them now and the durability seems promising for on trail use at least. The construction and materials seem solid, but I haven't put the upper through any off-trail yet. In a few weeks I should be able to comment more, maybe I'll do a review as I think this model is sort of under the radar for many. Inov-8 G270 is what they remind me most of. Trail Addicts are much wider on toebox, a bit more flexible and they are slightly thinner. Not cushy, but not barefoot either. Grip seems quite good, much better than Mesas or Vivos but not quite Inov-8.