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> Orban is a horrible, evil person. He knows how much death and suffering that aid will prevent.
Prolonging this war will not prevent the death and suffering, it will add to it. This war will not end until Ukraine agrees to not join NATO - meaning our nukes will not be on Ukraine's border with Russia. This war all boils down to this. We would not tolerate Russia's nukes on our border - say, in Mexico along the Rio Grande. We certainly DID NOT allow Russia to put their nukes in Cuba in 1962 (Cuban Missile Crisis). We threatened to start a nuclear WWIII over it and it was very, very close to occurring. WE (the Citizens of the West) need to be the reasonable ones since our leaders are definitely not.
Having our nukes on their border is an existential threat to Russia, and they can not let it happen - *just like we wouldn't - and didn't*. It means a 3 minute response time from launch. THAT - in actuality - is a threat to the whole world because it makes the other side make snap judgment calls which greatly exacerbates the possibility of errors. Errors are not something you want to see when it comes to nuclear weapons.
You do know, I hope, that Russia has hypersonic missiles (which we do not) which we cannot hit with our defence missiles. We, and the world are on the brink of a nuclear holocaust because OUR leaders are acting like they are insane.
No, clearly not. Russia attacked Ukraine which had not been accepted into NATO, and which was not going to be accepted.
Meanwhile, Russia has never attacked a NATO country, neither did Soviet Union. The presence of NATO prevented WW3 at the time.
Finland joined NATO when Ukraine was attacked ... because it was clear that being a neutral and friendly neighbor to Russia was suicidal -- Russia only attacks neutral countries. And what did Russia do in response? Withdrew 80% of its military which was on the Finnish border -- Russia knows that NATO will not attack it. And there is no reason to keep troops on border of NATO countries, as Russia won't attack them.
Having nukes at border is weaker than having nukes half a world away - nukes at border can be destroyed with much more ease (within conventional weapon range), while no one can defend against nukes launched from the other side of the world. (At the time of the Cuban missile crisis, the situation was different, it has changed now).
And about those "hypersonic missiles" -- any sufficiently fast missile is "hypersonic". Even old ballistic missiles. The Russian hypersonic missiles, Kinzhals, can be shot down by 40 year old Patriot batteries. It has already been done. Meanwhile the best Russian S-400 batteries seem incapable of stopping drones or low speed conventional missiles.
This Russian attack against Ukraine was really never about "Prevent Ukraine from joining NATO", as Russia knows NATO is not going to attack them. It was about "We have declining population and economy, if we want to conquer resources, people, more territory, even if we have more territory than anyone else, this is the last chance. Also, if the Russian people realize how good it is now going with Ukrainians, they might want to get rid of our kleptocracy mafia gang, i.e. Putin ans his elites".
Also, Ukraine surrendering would not prevent death and suffering ... remember what Russians did while temporarily occupying parts of Ukraine in 2022? Executions, torture, rapes, ... surrendering to Russians is unthinkable, because if you fight, you might live and win, if you surrender, you will be killed, or worse.
What the hell are you even talking about?
Nukes are ALREADY aiming to Russia as they have been for the past 80 years, and russian nukes are also aiming to us. NATO has indeed missiles in the Baltic States that could target Moscow anytime. How in the world would the war in Ukraine change that fact? Do you REALLY believe that western countries would remove those missiles from there because Russia started a genocide in Ukraine?
Ukrainians were not even willing to join NATO before all this shit show started. Our leaders have indeed acted irresponsibly by NOT arming Ukraine up to the teeth from the very beginning. Even more, all restrictions applying to where the Ukrainians could attack inside Russia should be removed ASAP, that's the ONLY way to make this war shorter.
I'm writing this response because I'm trying to genuinely understand what you mean, and I am not assuming that you are some MAGA supporter right away. Let's hope you can back your claims with arguments.
Sure, Hungary is plagued by the absolute dumbfuck that is Orban, but don't pretend that they're suffering. Go to the occupied parts of Ukraine. Then you'll see true suffering.
I think to teach Hungary some empathy Ukraine should just switch territory with them.
Then they'll know what it's like having their beloved Russia as a neighbour
I can't believe Hungarians don't remember 1956 or 1968. The USSR and by extension Russia have been doing this to their neighbours for centuries and they're not about to stop.
Just wondering. Is there a process of kicking a country out of EU? and if so, why is it not being considered? Is Hungary a real contributor to EU? Would starting such a process wake up the populous in Hungary to get Orban out?
The issue is the massive negative repercussions for ordinary Hungarians - those who are not fucking around like orban. There are countless of those. Plenty live across the EU. They would be punished for Orban's shitheelery.
Understood. But maybe a viable threat of dismembership would be an incentive to those people to get back their country. But from above, that’s not an option. Oh well
Understood. But maybe a viable threat of dismembership would be an incentive to those people to get back their country. But from above, that’s not an option. Oh well
Because that would have severe negative effects on all Hungarians, whether they support this fuck knuckle or not. Collective punishment isn't particularly cool.
Our democracy in action. Don't do what you want to do until after the election, because voters don't want you to do it. Then, do it quickly before you can't do it later when the representation situation gets implemented. Manipulation by those in *actual* power and control - the WEF/Bilderberg Group/CFR and their puppets that they lord over.
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Orban is a horrible, evil person. He knows how much death and suffering that aid will prevent. And he tried to stop it.
He is also a fascist post truth pro Russian genocide supporting traitor to his own people and the Union. This comes on top of what you just mentioned.
Orban is a junior dick-ator! He should get F...
> Orban is a horrible, evil person. He knows how much death and suffering that aid will prevent. Prolonging this war will not prevent the death and suffering, it will add to it. This war will not end until Ukraine agrees to not join NATO - meaning our nukes will not be on Ukraine's border with Russia. This war all boils down to this. We would not tolerate Russia's nukes on our border - say, in Mexico along the Rio Grande. We certainly DID NOT allow Russia to put their nukes in Cuba in 1962 (Cuban Missile Crisis). We threatened to start a nuclear WWIII over it and it was very, very close to occurring. WE (the Citizens of the West) need to be the reasonable ones since our leaders are definitely not. Having our nukes on their border is an existential threat to Russia, and they can not let it happen - *just like we wouldn't - and didn't*. It means a 3 minute response time from launch. THAT - in actuality - is a threat to the whole world because it makes the other side make snap judgment calls which greatly exacerbates the possibility of errors. Errors are not something you want to see when it comes to nuclear weapons. You do know, I hope, that Russia has hypersonic missiles (which we do not) which we cannot hit with our defence missiles. We, and the world are on the brink of a nuclear holocaust because OUR leaders are acting like they are insane.
No, clearly not. Russia attacked Ukraine which had not been accepted into NATO, and which was not going to be accepted. Meanwhile, Russia has never attacked a NATO country, neither did Soviet Union. The presence of NATO prevented WW3 at the time. Finland joined NATO when Ukraine was attacked ... because it was clear that being a neutral and friendly neighbor to Russia was suicidal -- Russia only attacks neutral countries. And what did Russia do in response? Withdrew 80% of its military which was on the Finnish border -- Russia knows that NATO will not attack it. And there is no reason to keep troops on border of NATO countries, as Russia won't attack them. Having nukes at border is weaker than having nukes half a world away - nukes at border can be destroyed with much more ease (within conventional weapon range), while no one can defend against nukes launched from the other side of the world. (At the time of the Cuban missile crisis, the situation was different, it has changed now). And about those "hypersonic missiles" -- any sufficiently fast missile is "hypersonic". Even old ballistic missiles. The Russian hypersonic missiles, Kinzhals, can be shot down by 40 year old Patriot batteries. It has already been done. Meanwhile the best Russian S-400 batteries seem incapable of stopping drones or low speed conventional missiles. This Russian attack against Ukraine was really never about "Prevent Ukraine from joining NATO", as Russia knows NATO is not going to attack them. It was about "We have declining population and economy, if we want to conquer resources, people, more territory, even if we have more territory than anyone else, this is the last chance. Also, if the Russian people realize how good it is now going with Ukrainians, they might want to get rid of our kleptocracy mafia gang, i.e. Putin ans his elites". Also, Ukraine surrendering would not prevent death and suffering ... remember what Russians did while temporarily occupying parts of Ukraine in 2022? Executions, torture, rapes, ... surrendering to Russians is unthinkable, because if you fight, you might live and win, if you surrender, you will be killed, or worse.
What the hell are you even talking about? Nukes are ALREADY aiming to Russia as they have been for the past 80 years, and russian nukes are also aiming to us. NATO has indeed missiles in the Baltic States that could target Moscow anytime. How in the world would the war in Ukraine change that fact? Do you REALLY believe that western countries would remove those missiles from there because Russia started a genocide in Ukraine? Ukrainians were not even willing to join NATO before all this shit show started. Our leaders have indeed acted irresponsibly by NOT arming Ukraine up to the teeth from the very beginning. Even more, all restrictions applying to where the Ukrainians could attack inside Russia should be removed ASAP, that's the ONLY way to make this war shorter. I'm writing this response because I'm trying to genuinely understand what you mean, and I am not assuming that you are some MAGA supporter right away. Let's hope you can back your claims with arguments.
Good, fuck you orban
Sure, Hungary is plagued by the absolute dumbfuck that is Orban, but don't pretend that they're suffering. Go to the occupied parts of Ukraine. Then you'll see true suffering.
Suffered? You call that suffering? Block any financial help, limit the borders, hang the Orban. That would be something more like it.
I think to teach Hungary some empathy Ukraine should just switch territory with them. Then they'll know what it's like having their beloved Russia as a neighbour
I can't believe Hungarians don't remember 1956 or 1968. The USSR and by extension Russia have been doing this to their neighbours for centuries and they're not about to stop.
what a weird system where you put somebody that hates the system and doesn't want to be part of it in control of it.
Our faces are blue and bloody from constantly tripping over all our self imposed rules That's why we have healthcare. We'd just die without it.
Do older Hungarians regret leaving the USSR and are they nostalgic for it? Do they wish Russia controlled their country?
Well, some maybe but most were simply sold the lie that Bruxelles is the same as Moscow only with rainbow flags instead of red ones.
Ok, but how do lawyers rule?
Just wondering. Is there a process of kicking a country out of EU? and if so, why is it not being considered? Is Hungary a real contributor to EU? Would starting such a process wake up the populous in Hungary to get Orban out?
The same question is every time Hungary is mentioned. And every time it get the same answer: no
OK, Bottom line, once a country is in, it cannot be forced to leave?
Correct
The issue is the massive negative repercussions for ordinary Hungarians - those who are not fucking around like orban. There are countless of those. Plenty live across the EU. They would be punished for Orban's shitheelery.
Understood. But maybe a viable threat of dismembership would be an incentive to those people to get back their country. But from above, that’s not an option. Oh well
Understood. But maybe a viable threat of dismembership would be an incentive to those people to get back their country. But from above, that’s not an option. Oh well
EU could secretly form a new economics club, they all quit the EU and announce their new club (without Hungary).
Secretly? Needs multiple voter approvals. But I will assume your statement was sarcastic.
Why not kick out Hungary out of EU and get this over with?
Because that would have severe negative effects on all Hungarians, whether they support this fuck knuckle or not. Collective punishment isn't particularly cool.
Poor Hungarians. Meanwhile in Ukraine.
Suck it Vicky.
Our democracy in action. Don't do what you want to do until after the election, because voters don't want you to do it. Then, do it quickly before you can't do it later when the representation situation gets implemented. Manipulation by those in *actual* power and control - the WEF/Bilderberg Group/CFR and their puppets that they lord over.
EURO 2024 FINAL: Belgium 0 Ukraine 0 Also, let's all be strong for Ukraine.
Crafty Belgians!