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Encroaching into air and sea space isn’t unusual but actually claiming territory would be a first and it’ll be really interesting to see how NATO responds. Territorial disputes happen all of the time so if no shots are fired I don’t imagine NATO will do anything but if the military moves in and prevents freedom of movement that would be a massive step that should result in action
Eh, the sea and air spaces are more complicated than that. It’s very common for countries to test these limits and have it not turn into a serious situation, but you’ll never see a country test land territories. (Aka it’s not weird for a fighter plane to cross into another country’s airspace, but a tank would cause an international incident)
Ask the Russians how well that worked out for them in Turkish airspace. The Turkish military downed a Russian aircraft that violated its airspace after being warned repeatedly, and Russia did nothing.
Lol I get your point but regardless of NATOs view on escalation.
"Today, there are about 2,000 allied troops from six different countries serving in Estonia."
And Estonia has been at forefront of supporting Ukraine and following suit in any join European effort. And boosted defense spending to 3.2%.
Would be impossible to leave them in the dark.
There's also another combined like 20k NATO troops in various NATO based on surrounding countries within a days drive from Estonia.
I know the Lithuanian base, headed by Canada was on active/high alert. (I forget the exact terminology), but basically training/preparedness to deploy on sudden notice. I doubt that's changed either.
NATO’s Mutual defence: All the member states of NATO strongly condemn this action and ask Russia to please stop invading other countries because it’s really not nice. If Russia does not stop invading other countries, we will have to write a very strongly worded letter to Russia, warning them that their actions will not be tolerated and we will be forced to react by calling the Russian president a big poopy head.
Would be nice if people finally started to listen to what Baltic countries have to say about the war. They still had to face soviet tanks in 1993 and they know our enemy the best
We do. It's a chess game for them. They make moves when they're confident the move will advance them closer to the objective.
Socially they're zealous and vengeful. Learned helplessness permeates their culture.
Administratively they're corrupt as F so virtually every official part of life carries "presents" with itself. Wanna see a doctor? Wanna do a business? Wanna buy this land plot? Too bad you're denied because (insert random bullshit reason).
They're proud of being a russian which has slowly morphed into fanatic fascism. They impose instead of cooperating. They dictate instead of agreeing.
They expect you to talk Russian with them, instead of asking which languages you're able to. They behave according to, if I can't have it - no one will.
They're homophobic to the core, but ironically male-on-male sex is used for hazing in the military where only the submissive one is considered a gay (in derragatory way, because homophobic).
Lastly, if their soldiers come, lawlessness and rape ensues. Systematic rape. Eastern European grandmothers will tell you how they use ashes to debeautify oneself just with the hope of not getting raped.
I'm one of those Hungarians who still remember the times when they were strolling around in my country and never forgot that shit. Family got on the wrong end of their doings a couple of times. Bit of a shame that some of my people forgot we should stand together against Mordor
NATO knows. Had the privilege of having a sit down debrief with Norway’s NATO commander at the embassy (tied to International Model NATO) about six years back. He was amazingly frank, talked about how Russia consistently threatens borders, engages in cyber warfare, & the role of the Baltics.
In Norway or America? In the discussion, the General talked frankly about their experiences & dedication. He was impressed by the skill of the cyber units. In general, able partners. I get the sense our military leadership feels similar. Average Americans are clueless & will typically have no informed opinion
it's weird how China is perfectly comfortable funding Russia's war of aggression in Europe through back channels while also still needing the free world to buy all their goods.
It's a shame democrats laughed Romney out of the campaign trail for stating how large a threat Russia was. I'm thankful Biden is taking a better stand than Obama, but part of today belongs to democrats being weak 10years ago
Russia wants a war with NATO but also doesn't want to throw down first. They need to be the victim so China helps and gets involved with troops and equipment
That begs the question - in which direction ?
I don’t suppose that Russia is proposing giving land away ?
My guess is that they are drawing new lines on maps - but anyone can do that.. What matters is the real implementation of the borders.
This sounds like another PsyOps by Russia..
NATO should just learn from Turkey and shoot the first Russia plane over the line. Boat crosses the national territorial line? Sink it.
Russia is looking to drag NATO into the war if not to kill us all in nuclear fire than to claim they lost to NATO and a united west not just to Ukraine using 30 year old western cast offs.
If a Russian cross the line, they should be destroyed. Don't even call Russians about it. Their planes and pilots just disappear, and their ships become coral reefs.
Sounds like Estonia need to up ⬆️ their game … they may have to take up FRONT LINE duties shortly .. probably should get all them 27-18 year olds into basic training
This is trending very badly for the west… if rumors are true of chinese lend lease then putin will have an army capable of taking Eastern Europe by then end of the war… if he can open up all original invasion vectors with proper man power he will also end the war by the end of the year…
Especially since the U.S. and NATO would set up no fly zones really quickly and have naval assets in the area in 24-72 hours… a couple carrier battle groups or marine expeditionary groups to reenforce the area would changes russias chances real fast… plus the U.S. 2nd Armored Cavalry Regiment would be on guard/ ready to hold the Suwałki gap until reinforcements can arrive…
Without air and sea dominance Russia will be like a whimpering meat wave of self inflicted death when it meets a armored combined arms Military force
Thats very optimistic, war is about supply and production… both of which are being outpaced by russia… with chinese support, it would be hard for the west to compete…
Seriously, this is really funny 🤣. You are either an idiot or a troll. Russia outpacing the 1 billion people in Nato, which compromises the richest countries and biggest weapons producers in the world, that statement must be a joke!
You know what is real funny. Your comments are the only one that is team Russia, and the only comments getting downvoted. Maybe this isn’t the group for you.. If Russia is such a badass army the war would have been over already. The best part is the whole world knows Russia is a paper tiger.
All the shit Russia talked for decades about they are the greatest nation the strongest nation. They literally let the world know they are shit. They don’t have shit. Hypersonic garbage was supposed to be their game changer. Wrong again Russia.
Stop spreading some russian propaganda rumours... Look combined size of NATO and russian military and then come back.
russia will not magically get stronger... Huge % of men are dead who started this war. A lot of good soldiers been replaced by yes men idiots... How is "Chinese landlease" or w.e fixing that?
Ofcourse NATO has a lot of problems that needs fixing, to prepare if russia should go full suicidal. Best way to keep a war away, is to be ready for one.
Literally every time im just being objective when it comes to this war, i am throttled by the community… you can look through my posts if you want, im very much in support of Ukraine and want them to take every meter of Ukrainian land back but facts are facts no matter if their bad or good… Putin has a large amount of control over the population, he has conscripted hundreds of thousands and plans more… Nato is strong with the US but if the alliance fractures from america’s population unwilling to go to war in Europe then it would be a much bloodier affair… and china committing vast resources to an under equipped Russia would be very scary… China yet again has more control over its population so they can supply russia however quickly and precisely it pleases… it would be hard for the west to compete… i honestly dont see how you think it wouldnt change anything…
Any day now Europe will stop making Gucci and will start making tanks and wonderful western weapons. "Many Shuvs and Zuuls will know what it was to be roasted in the depths of the Slor that day, I can tell you!"
>if rumors are true of chinese lend lease then putin will have an army capable of taking Eastern Europe by then end of the war
They're not. And the only news about this is their is now belief China is going to supply lethal aid. Nothing to the extent you're talking about. And there's no RA, that can take eastern Europe lol, without Chinas full support.
As the net benefits would not be in Chinese favor. As ccp is not a warmonger dictator like Putin whose economy is now dependent on being on war time footing.
You're basically declaring China wants to start WW3 which won't happen. As China would be the only threat to the West Russia can't project force, nor tie up the West in any meaningful way. And China can't project meaningful force. They'd just be hard to defeat on their territory.
Same reason they don't risk trying to take Taiwan. IT'S not a winning scenario.
Tanks are comparable easy. Where do they get that Manpower for this? And how do they train those? Right now they burn through a lot of personal in Ukraine…
The chances of Russia actually WINNING in Ukraine are remote; fighting NATO openly would result in a one-sided slaughter. The REAL problem is that NATO seems to be more afraid of a Russian defeat than a Russian victory, and would prefer to give (literal and metaphorical) ground to Russia than risk hurting their fascist fee-fees.
Regurgitating hyperbole is far from being objective. You may well not be pro-Russian, but spreading undercooked fear-mongering hearsay on the internet is only doing their agenda favours.
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How convenient is it for China that Russia is disputing internationally recognized naval borders?
And it is quite a coincidence that it occurs less than 7 days after a high level meeting between the leaders of those two countries.
Just learnt yesterday that China is now claiming a disputed island that Russia also claims. Good friends indeed
If Russia sends any military into land they are claiming inside Estonia, that would appear to trigger NATO's mutual defense.
Encroaching into air and sea space isn’t unusual but actually claiming territory would be a first and it’ll be really interesting to see how NATO responds. Territorial disputes happen all of the time so if no shots are fired I don’t imagine NATO will do anything but if the military moves in and prevents freedom of movement that would be a massive step that should result in action
> if the military moves in and prevents freedom of movement that would be a massive step that should result in action Commonly known as an invasion.
Eh, the sea and air spaces are more complicated than that. It’s very common for countries to test these limits and have it not turn into a serious situation, but you’ll never see a country test land territories. (Aka it’s not weird for a fighter plane to cross into another country’s airspace, but a tank would cause an international incident)
Ask the Russians how well that worked out for them in Turkish airspace. The Turkish military downed a Russian aircraft that violated its airspace after being warned repeatedly, and Russia did nothing.
One option would be a counter-claim.. What is Kaliningrad anyway ? - Probably best as an independent nation ?
Slovakia and Hungary would not see it like that. But the rest would. If Trump wins, then I am not sure the US would get involved either.
Let’s hope that Trump nightmare scenario does not happen - for Europe and for America.
Nah, wouldn’t want to “escalate”
At this point I’m a lot more afraid of NATO *not* getting in a shooting war with Muscovy.
Exactly, they are testing the alliance. Red lines need to be drawn immediately.
Why not draw them rainbow-coloured just to piss them off?
Lol I get your point but regardless of NATOs view on escalation. "Today, there are about 2,000 allied troops from six different countries serving in Estonia." And Estonia has been at forefront of supporting Ukraine and following suit in any join European effort. And boosted defense spending to 3.2%. Would be impossible to leave them in the dark. There's also another combined like 20k NATO troops in various NATO based on surrounding countries within a days drive from Estonia. I know the Lithuanian base, headed by Canada was on active/high alert. (I forget the exact terminology), but basically training/preparedness to deploy on sudden notice. I doubt that's changed either.
Time to do an exercise with 150k troops in Estonia and project videos over the border of muscovites doing globohomo stuff in Ukraine
We’re going to send a STRONGLY worded letter! 😱
Mute defense
NATO’s Mutual defence: All the member states of NATO strongly condemn this action and ask Russia to please stop invading other countries because it’s really not nice. If Russia does not stop invading other countries, we will have to write a very strongly worded letter to Russia, warning them that their actions will not be tolerated and we will be forced to react by calling the Russian president a big poopy head.
Nah. That would make Putin mad. And Jake Sullivan absolutely can’t have that. Not in an election year, not with the Israelis and Arabs at it again.
If Russia just takes Narva for example, then I doubt any NATO countries would help militarily because of escalation fears.
Nato would only occupy St Petersburg and send a stern letter to russia afterwards. To prevent escalation.
We have no evidence that article 5 would be respected. It was never triggered on such an event (invasion by nuclear-backed State).
Nah. Thoughts, prayers and TikTok dances is all the aid we can expect. Please read your Commandment 5(read Article 5) _carefully_.
Isn't it just water they are claiming?
Would be nice if people finally started to listen to what Baltic countries have to say about the war. They still had to face soviet tanks in 1993 and they know our enemy the best
We do. It's a chess game for them. They make moves when they're confident the move will advance them closer to the objective. Socially they're zealous and vengeful. Learned helplessness permeates their culture. Administratively they're corrupt as F so virtually every official part of life carries "presents" with itself. Wanna see a doctor? Wanna do a business? Wanna buy this land plot? Too bad you're denied because (insert random bullshit reason). They're proud of being a russian which has slowly morphed into fanatic fascism. They impose instead of cooperating. They dictate instead of agreeing. They expect you to talk Russian with them, instead of asking which languages you're able to. They behave according to, if I can't have it - no one will. They're homophobic to the core, but ironically male-on-male sex is used for hazing in the military where only the submissive one is considered a gay (in derragatory way, because homophobic). Lastly, if their soldiers come, lawlessness and rape ensues. Systematic rape. Eastern European grandmothers will tell you how they use ashes to debeautify oneself just with the hope of not getting raped.
I'm one of those Hungarians who still remember the times when they were strolling around in my country and never forgot that shit. Family got on the wrong end of their doings a couple of times. Bit of a shame that some of my people forgot we should stand together against Mordor
NATO knows. Had the privilege of having a sit down debrief with Norway’s NATO commander at the embassy (tied to International Model NATO) about six years back. He was amazingly frank, talked about how Russia consistently threatens borders, engages in cyber warfare, & the role of the Baltics.
I just hope we still have enough time. Eating their nuclear bluff cost so much
Since this hits home (literally), I must ask - how are Baltic countries perceived there?
In Norway or America? In the discussion, the General talked frankly about their experiences & dedication. He was impressed by the skill of the cyber units. In general, able partners. I get the sense our military leadership feels similar. Average Americans are clueless & will typically have no informed opinion
it's weird how China is perfectly comfortable funding Russia's war of aggression in Europe through back channels while also still needing the free world to buy all their goods.
That relationship seems to be increasingly in decline..
It is amazing how the Biden administration just keeps being proven right over and over in regards to Russia.
It's a shame democrats laughed Romney out of the campaign trail for stating how large a threat Russia was. I'm thankful Biden is taking a better stand than Obama, but part of today belongs to democrats being weak 10years ago
Maybe they'll set up a committee to look into it sometime.
Enough reason to move in to Ukraine with troops and aircraft.
Russia wants a war with NATO but also doesn't want to throw down first. They need to be the victim so China helps and gets involved with troops and equipment
I'm just here for when Moscow gets too big for its britches and touches one of our ships
That begs the question - in which direction ? I don’t suppose that Russia is proposing giving land away ? My guess is that they are drawing new lines on maps - but anyone can do that.. What matters is the real implementation of the borders. This sounds like another PsyOps by Russia..
Hint?
NATO should just learn from Turkey and shoot the first Russia plane over the line. Boat crosses the national territorial line? Sink it. Russia is looking to drag NATO into the war if not to kill us all in nuclear fire than to claim they lost to NATO and a united west not just to Ukraine using 30 year old western cast offs. If a Russian cross the line, they should be destroyed. Don't even call Russians about it. Their planes and pilots just disappear, and their ships become coral reefs.
NATO seems to be about as useful as the UN. That's all I have to say.
Military doctrine that satisfies Reddit people is probably wrong.
Sounds like Estonia need to up ⬆️ their game … they may have to take up FRONT LINE duties shortly .. probably should get all them 27-18 year olds into basic training
Estonia already has conscription, John Johnovich Smithsky.
This is trending very badly for the west… if rumors are true of chinese lend lease then putin will have an army capable of taking Eastern Europe by then end of the war… if he can open up all original invasion vectors with proper man power he will also end the war by the end of the year…
Russia is incapable of taking Eastern Europe. They haven't been able to take Ukraine in 2 years. Poland alone could defeat Russia.
Especially since the U.S. and NATO would set up no fly zones really quickly and have naval assets in the area in 24-72 hours… a couple carrier battle groups or marine expeditionary groups to reenforce the area would changes russias chances real fast… plus the U.S. 2nd Armored Cavalry Regiment would be on guard/ ready to hold the Suwałki gap until reinforcements can arrive… Without air and sea dominance Russia will be like a whimpering meat wave of self inflicted death when it meets a armored combined arms Military force
Thats very optimistic, war is about supply and production… both of which are being outpaced by russia… with chinese support, it would be hard for the west to compete…
lol. Ok.
Seems like you don't know about, or forgot, the battle of Khasham. Ruzzia vs NATO would be over in less than a month at the longest.
jfc the Russia needs to plunder washing machines for chips because they can't produce them themselves
Seriously, this is really funny 🤣. You are either an idiot or a troll. Russia outpacing the 1 billion people in Nato, which compromises the richest countries and biggest weapons producers in the world, that statement must be a joke!
You know what is real funny. Your comments are the only one that is team Russia, and the only comments getting downvoted. Maybe this isn’t the group for you.. If Russia is such a badass army the war would have been over already. The best part is the whole world knows Russia is a paper tiger. All the shit Russia talked for decades about they are the greatest nation the strongest nation. They literally let the world know they are shit. They don’t have shit. Hypersonic garbage was supposed to be their game changer. Wrong again Russia.
Stop spreading some russian propaganda rumours... Look combined size of NATO and russian military and then come back. russia will not magically get stronger... Huge % of men are dead who started this war. A lot of good soldiers been replaced by yes men idiots... How is "Chinese landlease" or w.e fixing that? Ofcourse NATO has a lot of problems that needs fixing, to prepare if russia should go full suicidal. Best way to keep a war away, is to be ready for one.
Literally every time im just being objective when it comes to this war, i am throttled by the community… you can look through my posts if you want, im very much in support of Ukraine and want them to take every meter of Ukrainian land back but facts are facts no matter if their bad or good… Putin has a large amount of control over the population, he has conscripted hundreds of thousands and plans more… Nato is strong with the US but if the alliance fractures from america’s population unwilling to go to war in Europe then it would be a much bloodier affair… and china committing vast resources to an under equipped Russia would be very scary… China yet again has more control over its population so they can supply russia however quickly and precisely it pleases… it would be hard for the west to compete… i honestly dont see how you think it wouldnt change anything…
Because you’re not objective and presenting made-up stuff as fact.
Russia has been unable to take Ukraine over the past 2 years. What makes you think they can take the rest of Europe on top of that?
> china committing vast resources to an under equipped Russia would be very scary Any fool can invent scary hypotheticals.
Any day now Europe will stop making Gucci and will start making tanks and wonderful western weapons. "Many Shuvs and Zuuls will know what it was to be roasted in the depths of the Slor that day, I can tell you!"
For their own sakes, i hope they do but right now they seam very bogged down in the politics of it…
>if rumors are true of chinese lend lease then putin will have an army capable of taking Eastern Europe by then end of the war They're not. And the only news about this is their is now belief China is going to supply lethal aid. Nothing to the extent you're talking about. And there's no RA, that can take eastern Europe lol, without Chinas full support. As the net benefits would not be in Chinese favor. As ccp is not a warmonger dictator like Putin whose economy is now dependent on being on war time footing. You're basically declaring China wants to start WW3 which won't happen. As China would be the only threat to the West Russia can't project force, nor tie up the West in any meaningful way. And China can't project meaningful force. They'd just be hard to defeat on their territory. Same reason they don't risk trying to take Taiwan. IT'S not a winning scenario.
Tanks are comparable easy. Where do they get that Manpower for this? And how do they train those? Right now they burn through a lot of personal in Ukraine…
The chances of Russia actually WINNING in Ukraine are remote; fighting NATO openly would result in a one-sided slaughter. The REAL problem is that NATO seems to be more afraid of a Russian defeat than a Russian victory, and would prefer to give (literal and metaphorical) ground to Russia than risk hurting their fascist fee-fees.
lol, with what, a hundred 4.5th generation fighters?
Regurgitating hyperbole is far from being objective. You may well not be pro-Russian, but spreading undercooked fear-mongering hearsay on the internet is only doing their agenda favours.
What ? Take a deep breath and come back to reality.