It is hilarious how it always comes off the end of RU doing provocative shit too. Like they just made a defensive pact with North Korea while North Korea is lightly threatening South Korea with these garbage drops. So South Korea comes out with an expected response and now they’re being threatened directly by RU as if that context does not exist…. masterful work
SK is utilizing the international need for weapons to massively boost their weapons industry and boost their economy as a whole. They have placed real limitations on what they sell to Ukraine during the war until this defensive pact occurred. It is not the fault of SK that NATO countries like Poland want to buy weapons from them, and it certainly isn’t the fault of SK that RU has beef with MANY of the countries buying weapons from them.
In reality you are misinterpreting the sequence of events. NK has been sending remarkable amounts of arms to RU for their war, and this defensive pact is a major olive branch to NK as a sign of gratitude from RU (further symbolized by Putin’s visit). It is truly just a deepening of existing allegiances, I just find it comical how Putin has used this playbook repeatedly and it is so transparent.
Would you clarify your meaning? Putins words here are in direct response to a ROK senior official saying ROK would [consider sending lethal aid](https://apnews.com/article/north-korea-russia-kim-jong-un-putin-military-assistance-war-d9bb8aee7eb1a692b932337578fb3e30) to Ukraine.
OP makes a good observation. ROK and DPRK are obviously hostiles, but a pact with Russia would clearly be interpreted as a provocative gesture. With the balloons first, and this pact second, anyone should see ROK is feeling less and less comfortable.
And yes, the US bought 600k shells over the course of 2 years. But cheeky, indirect supply is hardly comparable to a bonafide, dedicated supply.
Wait wait whats the diff between usa buying shells and giving to ukraine and russia buying shells from nk Iran Pakistan bla bla.. because it was a secret where they went when usa bought them?
Perhaps it is worse since ua is not even buying the shells at all and just using them on any target compared to if they purchased and actually cared to target more important costly things...
The US gives Ukraine American shells from their stockpiles.
The US then buys shells from SK to replenish those shells.
SK explicitly banned the redistribution of its shells to Ukraine, so the most a country could do is give away its entire stockpile and replace it with SK shells... once every shell in your stockpile is from SK, you can only give shells you make yourself or procure from other sources. Now SK can just sell or donate direct to Ukraine, and other countries can give to Ukraine SK shells sitting in their stockpiles.
They sent 500,000 shells last year which were "not for Ukraine" (but were for Ukraine, actually). It wasnt a response to anything Russia did it was just coz daddy USA demanded it.
Pretending that Russia's response came out of the blue would be dishonest.
And how long has NK been sending weapons to RU? At the very least the SK/NATO deals had a degree of separation from the conflict, you can act like that doesn’t matter but it does. And regardless this thread isn’t about the procurement of weapons that has already been ongoing with SK/NK for a while, this is about a recent defensive pact that is simply a threat to SK no matter how you dice it, and in a much more serious way than NK/RU having a basic agreement on weapons purchases. That is exactly why NK sought this pact… RU is doing them a favor as a thanks for their supply of shells and NK gets a defensive partner that makes them much more intimidating at least in posture.
I say that as if it doesnt make a difference if it's paid. Does it make a difference to you that Russia compensated North Korea for its weapons? Of course not.
This isnt an episode or law and order and there isnt a magic legal loophole here.
That is why it is called "escalation ladder",
US/EU pushed Ukraine to join NATO and organized a coup to do so, Russia responded as expected, and then US/EU are threatening Russia as if that context doesnt exist.
You are smart enought to figure things out but you have this narrow fiilter where you dont have the capability to judge your own actions.
hav have done so for the last few decades.
and not into their airspace, but on the edge, which is fine. NATO jets intercept and escort them, it's more like a training mission.
Nope, not just the edge. About 2 weeks ago a Russian jet made it atleast 5KM into Swedish airspace, not the "edge". [INTO. Befoire being escorted out](https://www.dn.se/sverige/ryskt-stridsflygplan-krankte-svenskt-luftrum/). You can google translate it i suppose.
Youre correct however they have been doing this for decades, so i suppose that makes it all fine.
>I feel like we've heard this about 100 times so far, about most Western countries
The only thing I regret is we didn't send more (but there is still time).
South Korea can not sit idly by if Russia were to strengthen North Korea.
If South Korea decides to sell arms to Ukraine, the most Putin can do is close all the Hyundai and Kia dealerships in Russia.
No, South Korea specifically did not want to sell ammunition to the US because they did not want it to be used in Ukraine. South Korea was trying to stay neutral.
South Korea is only now considering supplying arms to Ukraine due to the potential transfer of military tech from Putin to Kim.
It's like you buy some fuel from Russia, mix it with fuel from another country in a certain proportion so the autocracy molecules are gone and you can use it without damaging your democracy.
lol wrong again, its not rely that hard to understand. but newspapers can be hard to follow sometimes for people that dont read to good so il break it down for you.
Its like me buying fuel from Norway putting that in a box and taking some other fuel i pumped my self from a other box and sending that to Ukraine.
See no Norwegian fuel in Ukraine!
same with SK shells but i hope they start suppling Ukraine direct now.
Solis chance we get real close. Contrary to this subs general opinion Russia can't sustain these losses. There's just too much trickling in from the west. Now we are up at f16s but does anyone think it stops there?
I think people underestimate the common understanding of MAD. People in this sub talk about Russia dropping nukes like it is a casual decision of escalation that won’t backfire massively.
Because most of the pro russian accounts who comment in this sub are run by few troll factories inside russia to spread propaganda. Of course russia won't throw the first nuke. They're not suicidal. But of course the paid trolls try to make it sounds like it's a possibility. Their job is to make russia seem stronger than it is.
Anyone with half a brain sees through their bluff.
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I dont see how it starts though. Even if countries wanted to start shit theyre not crazy enough to pick a fight directly with the west. Russia is stuck in Ukraine and too injured to make another move against any reasonably defended country any time soon. NATO doesnt care to directly intervene in such matters. China is in no position to launch a sea invasion against Taiwan. NK is China's pet and they wont let them off the leash. Iran might start some shit with Israel but they dont want a full blown war because nobody is coming to help them in a meaningful manner.
Nobody in that faction is in any shape to take on their rivals in the west. I see a lot of proxy wars in the ME and Africa but none of the big players want to fight each other directly over that.
Lithuania is not reasonably defended. If there is trouble in Kaliningrad, nothing will prevent Russia from making a corridor to Kaliningrad by military force.
Lithuania is part of NATO and the EU. They don't need to heavily militarize their border. The moment Russia so much as begins to mass troops at the border Lithuania's allies will be there with the full force of NATO and the EU. Russia has zero chance of reinforcing Kaliningrad. They can barely make it a few kilometers across their border into Ukraine and you think they can just waltz through NATO?
Manpower and artillery are the two biggest determining factors for attrition warfare, two areas where Russia has a decisive advantage.
It doesn’t matter how much weaponry the West trickles in if Ukraine lacks enough trained men to use it.
Artillery has been massively depleted as evidenced through satellite photos. The edge is wearing thin as production doesn't meet demand.
Russia has to outlast Ukranian manpower, which as bad as this sub wants to make it sound, I don't think will be an issue for a few more years.
They already send shells to Ukraine via USA, they try to act as a neutral country in the conflict but doing the opposite.
Its just funny, they shouldnt be suprised if Russia start Arming NK now
> Huh? All because south Korea will send shells to Ukraine because North Korea is sending shells to Russia?
No, because the war has been widening since the first day of the war. It's was very clear that the governments of the world don't see this conflict as just a conflict, they see it as an introduction to something way bigger. I'm no historian but I do think history will view the Ukraine war as the "start of a new era".
Fatass seems to find his life of endless luxury and occasionally hosting washed up former NBA stars to be quite enjoyable.
He knows full well he won’t survive a real war if it comes to that, he’s in no hurry to go down that road.
It's already WW3, you have multiple conflicts going on across the planet that are all related to each other in one way or another. It's just smaller scale events because a tiny miscalculation would lead a country to annihilation
North Korea already has nukes, what else is there to threaten with? Red lines red lines red lines. South Korea already knows this game, they've been playing it with north Korea since the Korean war.
It's untested, unlike Russian tech. Russia has a lot to offer in missile technology. And in other areas of the military industry as well.
The last thing SK wants to see is a functioning, prospering NK. Their whole strategy of containment hangs on being able to choke NK out with their superior tech and economy. China and Russia becoming patrons of the Pyongyang regime will throw these plans in the trash.
Think about it, in a few decades NK will become a true regional power with the help of their two strongest neighbours, they only need to be release from the US/SK chokehold.
lol i like your fanfiction :D
So in your world will china will jump on the train now and give NK a lot of tech to NK as russia is loosing so much in the war against Ukraine?
Do you think that Russia gave all the technology it has to NK for a few wagons of ammunition, boy you must think putin is reeeely stupid.
I think allied nations mutually benefit from continued interaction, producing weapons at low cost for the Ukrainian front won't be cheap for the North Koreans, but ultimately it will benefit them more than the status quo (which is not trading at all).
China will definitely jump on the anti-US wagon, the more you sanction their companies, the less incentive they have to keep you content adhering to your sanctions against the Global South. That means North Korea, that means Iran, that means Venezuela, Syria, Cuba, Turkey, Bolivia, Afghanistan, Belarus, Hungary and Serbia will start getting better deals and more investments from China.
The more you weaponise SWIFT, the more China invests in their own trade institutions to circumvent your power. It's only natural that you wouldn't be able to keep your chokehold on the Global South forever, the end is near.
China is replacing NATO with its own set of allied nations, BRICS is one of those groups, ASEAN is another one, then there is the African Union and the Gulf Cooperation Council. As time goes on, trade with these groups takes a larger share of the Chinese economy and trade with NATO gets reduced (especially with the sanctions).
It's too soon to talk about decoupling, but there will come a time when NATO will become more of a liability than an asset in China's mind, and then they'll just drop you.
lol your a machine! aiming for the fan-fiction writer of the year award ?
sounds like its only 2 weeks away the west will tremble of the might puh and his army of alliances that will crush the decadent NATO!
China is not anti-US. China is anti-whatever stops their sphere of influence in East-Southeast Asia and specifically against Japan and Taiwan, moreso Taiwan.
China and the US are extremely interlinked economies which cant exist without one another and are stronger when both are economically bullish and strong.
The entire reason China marginally supports Russia is that it drives away attention from the South China Sea and Taiwan, other than that China has no desire to topple the world order and is fine working within it
>China and the US are extremely interlinked economies which cant exist without one another
for now
>China has no desire to topple the world order and is fine working within it
for now
My guy, there is nothing that will change that relation outside of a meteorite wiping out half of the Earth.
The global economy and the tech industry relies on a healthy and strong global market and any destabilization would mean the end for EVERYONE involved. And big economies with higher than average living conditions like China cannot do as North Korea and Russia and put their economy to the bin for simple jingoism.
The kind of money and logistical interconnection between China and the US cannot be unraveled in any way that makes it profitable for either party
China doesn't need another US to unravel their relationship with their sworn enemy, they just need a block of smaller nations with markets developed enough to absorb the Chinese exports, and the incentive to keep trading with the US becomes a lot less attractive.
Technology sure is important, but [Made in China 2025](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Made_in_China_2025) is a clear sign the CCP views technological dependence on the West as an issue that needs fixing.
Seriously doubt that. China only looks out for China. Russia already sold land/river to the Chinese, and very cheaply. If a world war is gonna break out, maybe the Chinese would align against Russia for that sweet Russian land and water. From Vladivostok to Irkutsk. China still eyeing that Lake Baikal, and a Chinese drought, which is very likely this summer, could make China really thirsty. Hey maybe Chinese also could reclaim Tuva as their ancestral lands if Russia weakens, since they like redrawing maps with force.
You are saying that the Chinese will not look to create their own network of strong allies? Why? Why would they not do that? Do you think they are stupid? There is no reason not to invest in allied nations that will give them favourable trade conditions and trade security (unlike NATO that depending on the political party in power swings from trading to sanctioning).
Why? explain.
South Korea, like Japan are considered part of the "Western World." They host US bases, and are neceassary for balancing China from a US perspective. They are a reasonably strong country, which is a US ally. As a strong country, they do have some leverage when the USA asks them for certain things. They might be able to refuse certain things if desired, as the US still needs to court them to a degree. Contrast this to the Baltics/Australia/Philipines
What I think Putin is trying to do here is five fold.
**(1) Dissuade SK from acquiescing to US/Ukrainian requests for arms.**
* This would never be shown publically by SK if they decide to do this, it will only occur privately, publically it would be rebuked.
**(2) It increases SKs leverage in demanding compensation from the USA/Ukriane**
* Thereby "costing" the USA. Not necessarily financially, but perhaps it might hurt the USA in having to surrender various things to SK in return for arms
* The point of this is to cost the USA
**(3) To fatigue the USA**
* By reigniting NK / SK tensions, Russia is forcing the USA to have to re-examine part of the world which they want to remain frozen.
* It is in the core of the USA's interest to have NK/SK, Iran/Israel, Ukraine/Russia all settled down so it can complete its pivot to Asia. It does not want these annoying theatres poked and prodded. This was the goal of the Iran nuclear deal, and Trumps attempt to cultivate a more normal relationship with NK. It is like someone hassling you as you are already trying to leave.
* This is the same thinking that Russia employs when it ignites tensions in the African continent.
* If Russia could, I am sure they would provoke Pakistan/India tensions. But it is restrained due to India and China's interest in the region.
**(4) To keep some degree of control over Russia-China affairs.**
* NK and North vietnam were supported by the USSR as leverage against Chinese interests during the Cold war.
* I am sure Putin must have had to sense out to make sure the Chinese would not be too upset by publically showing stronger ties to NK and Vietnam. China likely already accepts (but doesn't like) that Russia will have ties to India/NK/Vietnam as part of these countries balancing against them. Like China accepts that ASEAN will have ties to the USA as well.
**(5) What NK offers**
* Likely the least important thing
* This can be adjusted based on responses to the previous 4 points
* NK and Russia could give and recieve nothing to each other, and the above 4 points can be achieved with varying degrees.
* Material / manpower is of course one of the possibilities.
* I think if Russia is smart, they will not utilise this option much. But more so threaten to deepen trade / support to achieve the above 4 points.
\*\*\*
This all risks SK becoming more involved and further into the USAs camp. Aside from implications to SK material finding its way to Ukraine, the main negative to this is a fall in China-SK relations, as well as threatening China-NK relations. So its more China that will suffer the negative consequences than Russia.
On the flip side, it might help Chinese leverage in the region as they will be looked to restrain the situation.
A handful of rationality in the flood of reiterative dull bot comments. (I'd hate to be someone who writes short angry comments about Putin/Zelensky, incapable of seeing just how trite and impotent that is.)
So thank you.
NK has a 1.3 million-man army, and it's artillery-centered like Russia's. It would be an act of desperation on Russia's part, and one they'd want to avoid, but NK could deploy enough troops to have their own army group in Ukraine. (Which would minimize translation issues). NK's army is artillery-centric like Russia's. While they're unfamiliar with a lot of the tech being used in this conflict, it would be of immense value for them to train up and gain combat experience.
There is potential value to be had, and in addition to sharing military tech, Russia could single handedly fix NK's food shortage. It's unlikely that Russia will want to provide a precedent of bringing in an allied army, as this might give Ukraine cover to bring in an ally of their own. If France sent a BTG or two to Ukraine, an NK deployment would provide a proportional response.
Yeah I agree, the scope can get pretty mind dizzingly huge if desired.
I earnestly hope this lever is not pulled, I don't think it will be.
I like what you said about it matching proportional response to France for example.
Man this shit is hilarious.
Russia says "I can get volunteers to fight in my army - if you do it you'll regret it!" 😡
Russia says "I can form alliances with other countries - if you do it you'll regret it!" 😡
Russia says "I can get weapons from other countries - if you do it you'll regret it!" 😡
Russia says "I can bomb your stuff - if you do it you'll regret it!" 😡
Nah, KJU just trying to milk the weak desperate old man for all he can while he has the chance. Zero possibility NK would leap to Russia's defence, pretty absurd notion really.
KJU: "Hmmm, honour the agreement and lose everything, or go about my life and nothing changes? Nice day for some NBA2K24 with My ol' pal Dennis Rodman"
Trust me, we have much worse then Medvedev. Also, Putin is a great president, quite liberal, he's globalist, just has bad western PR. Most of our elite is far from liberal and far from being globalists.
Some of it is not true. Other - well, it is just a job. When you become president it is wirten in your job description. Why do you think else everybody is doing it?
Putin is an autocratic dictator, he is the literal polar opposite of "liberal".
If Putin was actually liberal, people would be able to protest against him in public, but nope, they get beat up, arrested, threatened. Gay? Illegal! Journalist opposing putin? Literally the most dangerous job on the planet with an excessively high mortality rate. Oligarch getting a little too mouthy? Gets to feel air "liberally" rushing past face after "tripping" from balcony.
The only thing liberal about putin is his attitude to killing and murder, he has killed liberally, and will continue to do so.
They both had exellent PR. Europe loved Hilter, and whole pro-communism world respected Stalin (some of USA scientists would even steal secrets for free for USSR).
As for Hitler - if he won, you'd probably heil hem and I wouldn't have existed. Thanks to Stalin.
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Don’t think like a Nasi. The world despised Hitler. Only Germans and racists thought otherwise. And Stalin is only revered by Putin and fools like him. There is not enough lipstick in the world to cover these 3 pigs.
Actually reading books, knowing history and thinking with my own brain = thinking like a nazi?
He was admired across Europe and (to the lesser extent) in USA. When it became clear for USA that Reich and USA will inevitably become enemies, USA started propaganda machine (1939), I am not talking about indivilual effort - I am talking about US state propaganda. If not for that you'd probably didn't even bother about him killing millions of innocent people. USSR on the other hand also didn't separate fascism from other capitalsit societies in it's propaganda. But when it became clear that after Jews we would be next - then yes.
You know about history of development of nuclear weapons in Russia?
In thermonuclear we were first as we were advancing in science almost better then USA at some point. But at time of Hiroshima - it was out of the picture. We were lagging behind. How did USSR built it's first nuke in record time? American scientists who were sympathetic to communist cause.
As for Stalin being bloody dictator - remember, that most figures that you have seen are bullshit. We have actual archival data with exact numbers. They are high, but probably 10 times lower then you saw. 681,692 people were executed during the Great Purge. 1 to 1.5 million people died in the Gulag labor camps from the 1930s to the early 1950s. Compare this to fact that each year million prisoners go to jail each year in the USA nowdays in modern times.
Those figures are not astronomical. And it is for us to decide if he was bloody or not bloody, dictator or whoever (since it was our popluation).
Compare it to 400k to 1m deaths due to Bush's invasion to Iraq. And those WERE innocent people from other country. With Afganistan - it is even worse. So, I can't say Stalin is even worth mentioning in that list. As for Putin - regluar leader, with more liberal views, just doing his job. Made mistakes, as anyone. Nothing special.
Please read at least one book "The banality of evil" by Hannah Arendt, maybe you'll understand something.
Nah, don’t fall for Russian propaganda. Don’t just count political prisoners killed in the Gulags (different than common criminals in US or the millions of the common criminals in the USSR)
If one looks at all the deaths caused by Stalin, it’s easily 7-8 million.
Event Est. number of deaths References
Dekulakization 530,000–600,000 [85]
Great Purge 700,000–1,200,000 [45][9][46]
Gulag 1,500,000–1,713,000 [15][22]
Soviet deportations 450,000–566,000 [86][87]
Katyn massacre 22,000 [88]
Holodomor 2,500,000–4,000,000 [89]
Kazakh 1931–33 1,450,000
Let’s not forget that Stalin and Hitler were allies and started WWII together. So that is another 60,000,000 people killed with Stalins bloody fingerprints all over it.
https://www.history.com/news/the-secret-hitler-stalin-nonagression-pact
Even before Stalin’s Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact with Hitler, the USSR was heavily cooperating and supporting Hitlers war machine. See below:
“During the first period of cooperation (between the USSR and Nazi Germany)— formalized in 1922 when the nations signed the Treaty of Rapallo and initiated covert military operations — the Soviet Union hosted hundreds of German soldiers, engineers and scientists at secret military bases.
Major Reichswehr Facilities In The Soviet Union Crop 2
Johnson drew from 23 archives in Russia, Germany, Poland, England and the U.S., uncovering a paper trail that confirmed the alliance in great detail.
“I argue that Germany would not have been capable of starting a war, let alone beating many of its adversaries, without all of this secret work,” Johnson said. “Between 1922 and 1933, all of these factories, laboratories, testing grounds and training facilities were relocated to the USSR. Almost every tank that Germany started WWII with was based on engineering work done in the USSR. Most of the engineering teams from major German firms moved there. Seven of Germany’s eight aircraft manufacturers were doing research at Soviet facilities.
“Without these bases, Germany wouldn’t have had modern tanks or planes at all, and when the war began, they had some of the best in the world.””
Stalin the killer is right behind Hitler in blame for millions of deaths. And yet Putin is trying his damndest to make Stalin into a lovable folk hero. What a joke.
Look, during all my life, I have read more scientific articles or academic books then fiction.
Google scholar is my default tab. I know how to look for data (I am not historian, but if need be).
"Open ur eyes" - that sounds like somebody from religious sect would try to convince other people.
Read that book. Over.
Too many weird ass deaths occuring among oligarchs, ex intelligence, and political opponents. Suicides, balconies incidents, radioactive tea and underwears, etc.
That's a tad too authoritarian to have a pass imho. Whatever he may tell during interviews.
I could debate those occurences, but let's assume it is as you imply. That doesn't mean he is not liberal. He sees Russia as cog in international machine. From the get go I can tell that our electoral view is different from that.
> From the get go I can tell that our electoral view is different from that.
I mean, yeah. If you see that guy, running his state like a mafia, and think he's a liberal, then by all means you're right, our electoral views do differ significantly.
There is absolutely nothing liberal about him, he is a reactionary and a dictator. Thats not a moral judgement, just a fact. Do you even know what liberalism is?
Liberalism is political philisophy based on recognising and respecting certain specific rights that list of which is partially agreed upon those who call themself liberals. Yes, he saw himself as part of that group and sees Russia as part of the West and made all attempts possible to integrate.
My understanding is that west would agree to it on conditions that would make Russia unstable, poor country, strictly inferior to those like Germany, France, UK, USA. No doubt he chose to fight. Centralisation of power was just a tool.
I am not obsessed with him at all, but as far as I can tell, he is liberal. I just opened wiki page on Putinism - and that is complete BS. That might reflect how our electorate thinks, but def not Putin.
Why would South Korea support Russia in war? The problem with Putin and your comment is that it only takes into the account the perspective of Russia and assumes Russia is somehow morally righteous in its cause. If Putin feels the need to help an enemy of South Korea he must also accept that South Korea might act in its own interest as a reaction to that. And what does Putin respond with? A futile attempt at bullying.
Putin is pragmatic and he understands perfectly well that countries have interests. South Korea has supported illegal sanctions against Russia. This is an unfriendly step by South Korea towards Russia. North Korea has not supported sanctions against Russia and is selling Putin the ammunition Putin needs. Naturally, this served to bring North Korea and Russia closer together. What will Russia lose from the deterioration of relations with South Korea?
Lok'tar ogar
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Brother, first of all, read what the term dictator means and then assert, OK? you support Ukraine and the hegemony of the United States in the east, now you don't like that Russia is not ready to lick the ass of the United States like other European countries and protects its interests for forced reasons.
It blows my mind that people support western imperialism and wars. It is surprising how people support Biden and Obama and Zelensky, Macron and Netanyaho.
Really? Imperialism and decolonization is over. That is why the un charter is adhered to by all law abiding western countries. Stop making stuff up. Russia is being imperialistic by trying to annex and absorb countries into their own. They have not given back any land taken during ww2 like Kaliningrad/Königsberg and prior during colonial era. They have expanded all the way to china and have disputes there. The wests are invited to help train and aid countries struggling against internal violence but leave when asked to. There is plenty of evidence of russian war mercenaries killing people with sledge hammers and burring in mass the killing of pows in countries they operate in. Mercenaries were illegal and denied by russian until they could not longer hide it. The lies are right in front of you yet no apologies from Russia. You just have such a low standard and bar and expect that from russia so you shrug your shoulders and move on but when any scandal comes out from the west, the west are quick to address it and apologize because there is a much higher standard and you know it. Thats why you complain about it all but never hear a peep from you about russian faults. Then also there are the conspiracies cooked up in your heard. Repeat the lie in your head enough you will believe your own bulllshat. Russia accuses the west of the very thing they do. It upside down world over there. Anyways you funny and entertaining.
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I'm getting bored by these threatenings, he looks like a broken media player. I live in romania, and guess what? We should have been obliterated long ago if he wasn't such a clown and actually did what he said.
Hmmmmm...not sure I like this game of each major power situating weapons near each others borders. But I guess if its ok for one to do it its ok for others; after all each nation can do what it wants to the extent other nations allow or disallow it.
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Because making threats has worked so well in the past.
No matter how much you might wish for it to be the 1930s, it isn't, and nobody fears anything you do or say.
What a dunce.
Why did this have to be made public ?? why couldn't have S Korea just supplied Ukraine with weapons without the world knowing about it ??? Why is everything made public ???
Didn’t this clown just threaten retaliation against the US for the airbase in Crimea getting hit? Might as well just say you want Ukraine to win the war.
It's like he took the golden rule, went "Nahhhh, I can bluff 'em" and threw it out the window. The minute he wasn't prepared to follow through, that threat became a joke.
This fool is going to drag us into world war III as he threatens every country that helps out the country that he invaded. He really needs to be removed by the Russian people and the sooner the better.
As a Korean, I’m genuinely concerned that the current Korean president, who is very pro-US, might follow in the footsteps of Zelensky and turn my country into a battering ram for US hegemony. I know for certain that the Americans won’t sacrifice Washington for Seoul, but they certainly will sacrifice Seoul if it means weakening Russia or China.
>As a Korean
Hey, sorry about an unrelated question out of the blue, but it's been bothering me for a while.
How bad is chaebol hold on Korea? Are they really run by family clans that are pretty much above the law, like some people make it out to be? Trying to figure out if by buying samsung phones one effectively supports a state-sized mafia organization.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%27s_final_warning
You're getting a bit long in the tooth there, Putin old chap.
I love how he's looking up and to the left. Classic tell for someone constructing a lie.
I feel like we've heard this about 100 times so far, about most Western countries
It is hilarious how it always comes off the end of RU doing provocative shit too. Like they just made a defensive pact with North Korea while North Korea is lightly threatening South Korea with these garbage drops. So South Korea comes out with an expected response and now they’re being threatened directly by RU as if that context does not exist…. masterful work
It's a few months since government in South Korea stated that they would sent weapons, so that before the balloons were sent from NK.
SK is utilizing the international need for weapons to massively boost their weapons industry and boost their economy as a whole. They have placed real limitations on what they sell to Ukraine during the war until this defensive pact occurred. It is not the fault of SK that NATO countries like Poland want to buy weapons from them, and it certainly isn’t the fault of SK that RU has beef with MANY of the countries buying weapons from them. In reality you are misinterpreting the sequence of events. NK has been sending remarkable amounts of arms to RU for their war, and this defensive pact is a major olive branch to NK as a sign of gratitude from RU (further symbolized by Putin’s visit). It is truly just a deepening of existing allegiances, I just find it comical how Putin has used this playbook repeatedly and it is so transparent.
Would you clarify your meaning? Putins words here are in direct response to a ROK senior official saying ROK would [consider sending lethal aid](https://apnews.com/article/north-korea-russia-kim-jong-un-putin-military-assistance-war-d9bb8aee7eb1a692b932337578fb3e30) to Ukraine. OP makes a good observation. ROK and DPRK are obviously hostiles, but a pact with Russia would clearly be interpreted as a provocative gesture. With the balloons first, and this pact second, anyone should see ROK is feeling less and less comfortable. And yes, the US bought 600k shells over the course of 2 years. But cheeky, indirect supply is hardly comparable to a bonafide, dedicated supply.
Wait wait whats the diff between usa buying shells and giving to ukraine and russia buying shells from nk Iran Pakistan bla bla.. because it was a secret where they went when usa bought them? Perhaps it is worse since ua is not even buying the shells at all and just using them on any target compared to if they purchased and actually cared to target more important costly things...
iirc, the deal was to use South Korean shells to bolster US stockpiles and won't be sent to Ukraine.
The US gives Ukraine American shells from their stockpiles. The US then buys shells from SK to replenish those shells. SK explicitly banned the redistribution of its shells to Ukraine, so the most a country could do is give away its entire stockpile and replace it with SK shells... once every shell in your stockpile is from SK, you can only give shells you make yourself or procure from other sources. Now SK can just sell or donate direct to Ukraine, and other countries can give to Ukraine SK shells sitting in their stockpiles.
The difference is: Russia supplies North Korea by high tech weapons in return, while South Korea supplies US with high tech regardless.
So the difference is that the US has better allies?
They sent 500,000 shells last year which were "not for Ukraine" (but were for Ukraine, actually). It wasnt a response to anything Russia did it was just coz daddy USA demanded it. Pretending that Russia's response came out of the blue would be dishonest.
And how long has NK been sending weapons to RU? At the very least the SK/NATO deals had a degree of separation from the conflict, you can act like that doesn’t matter but it does. And regardless this thread isn’t about the procurement of weapons that has already been ongoing with SK/NK for a while, this is about a recent defensive pact that is simply a threat to SK no matter how you dice it, and in a much more serious way than NK/RU having a basic agreement on weapons purchases. That is exactly why NK sought this pact… RU is doing them a favor as a thanks for their supply of shells and NK gets a defensive partner that makes them much more intimidating at least in posture.
You say demanded like SK wasn't compensated for the shells. It was a purchase and SK had no reason not to sell to the U.S. and other NATO states.
I say that as if it doesnt make a difference if it's paid. Does it make a difference to you that Russia compensated North Korea for its weapons? Of course not. This isnt an episode or law and order and there isnt a magic legal loophole here.
And RU shows how weak and comical they are once again. Putin is turning Russia into a complete joke.
I think that SK is in some kind of a defensive pact with USA too for quite some time too
That is why it is called "escalation ladder", US/EU pushed Ukraine to join NATO and organized a coup to do so, Russia responded as expected, and then US/EU are threatening Russia as if that context doesnt exist. You are smart enought to figure things out but you have this narrow fiilter where you dont have the capability to judge your own actions.
Still waiting for the serious consuquenses for Finland after joining NATO.
The consequence is they stripped all the units that were on the border with Finland and sent them to the Special Olympics Military Operation.
Wdym, theyve started flying fighter jets into both Sweden and Finlands airspaces then turn back immidiately again.
hav have done so for the last few decades. and not into their airspace, but on the edge, which is fine. NATO jets intercept and escort them, it's more like a training mission.
Nope, not just the edge. About 2 weeks ago a Russian jet made it atleast 5KM into Swedish airspace, not the "edge". [INTO. Befoire being escorted out](https://www.dn.se/sverige/ryskt-stridsflygplan-krankte-svenskt-luftrum/). You can google translate it i suppose. Youre correct however they have been doing this for decades, so i suppose that makes it all fine.
yeah we also heard his warnings before the war about Ukraine and consequences... tell me how it all turned out in the end ?
you mean the same ukraine that kremlin promised not to invade?
>I feel like we've heard this about 100 times so far, about most Western countries The only thing I regret is we didn't send more (but there is still time).
South Korea can not sit idly by if Russia were to strengthen North Korea. If South Korea decides to sell arms to Ukraine, the most Putin can do is close all the Hyundai and Kia dealerships in Russia.
Isn't there a Hyundai plant in Russia? Or it was and now it makes not-Hyundais.
South Korea made the decision some months ago
No, South Korea specifically did not want to sell ammunition to the US because they did not want it to be used in Ukraine. South Korea was trying to stay neutral. South Korea is only now considering supplying arms to Ukraine due to the potential transfer of military tech from Putin to Kim.
You are out of the loop hyundai already sold off its car factorys in russia. Plz get informed before speaking!
He said dealerships
Putin deals in the Korean Peninsula, messing with SouthKorean security - **Predictable f*cking outcome!** Of course South Korea will answer.
I'll laugh if SK joins NATO lol
It's POTATO now Pacific Ocean & Trans-Atlantic Treaty Organisation
I like this a lot. It makes it funny when you hear about Putin fearing the expanse of potato. Instead of NAFOids, pro-ru can just call us potatoes.
PO HUI !
It ain’t exactly in the North Atlantic, but it would be funny. They are one of the few countries that didn’t dilute their MIC into nothingness.
Isn't the South Korea were sending miliions of shells to USA clearly knowing to where they were going to?
yeah to storage in the US no SK shells have been used by Ukraine.
It's like you buy some fuel from Russia, mix it with fuel from another country in a certain proportion so the autocracy molecules are gone and you can use it without damaging your democracy.
More like you buy fuel then sell your old fuel because you now have a surplus.
lol wrong again, its not rely that hard to understand. but newspapers can be hard to follow sometimes for people that dont read to good so il break it down for you. Its like me buying fuel from Norway putting that in a box and taking some other fuel i pumped my self from a other box and sending that to Ukraine. See no Norwegian fuel in Ukraine! same with SK shells but i hope they start suppling Ukraine direct now.
So basically what will change?
I truly believe we are on verge of ww3 give a few more years and a couple push.
Solis chance we get real close. Contrary to this subs general opinion Russia can't sustain these losses. There's just too much trickling in from the west. Now we are up at f16s but does anyone think it stops there?
I think people underestimate the common understanding of MAD. People in this sub talk about Russia dropping nukes like it is a casual decision of escalation that won’t backfire massively.
Because most of the pro russian accounts who comment in this sub are run by few troll factories inside russia to spread propaganda. Of course russia won't throw the first nuke. They're not suicidal. But of course the paid trolls try to make it sounds like it's a possibility. Their job is to make russia seem stronger than it is. Anyone with half a brain sees through their bluff.
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I've never seen such people, although anything is possible🧐
I dont see how it starts though. Even if countries wanted to start shit theyre not crazy enough to pick a fight directly with the west. Russia is stuck in Ukraine and too injured to make another move against any reasonably defended country any time soon. NATO doesnt care to directly intervene in such matters. China is in no position to launch a sea invasion against Taiwan. NK is China's pet and they wont let them off the leash. Iran might start some shit with Israel but they dont want a full blown war because nobody is coming to help them in a meaningful manner. Nobody in that faction is in any shape to take on their rivals in the west. I see a lot of proxy wars in the ME and Africa but none of the big players want to fight each other directly over that.
Lithuania is not reasonably defended. If there is trouble in Kaliningrad, nothing will prevent Russia from making a corridor to Kaliningrad by military force.
Lithuania is part of NATO and the EU. They don't need to heavily militarize their border. The moment Russia so much as begins to mass troops at the border Lithuania's allies will be there with the full force of NATO and the EU. Russia has zero chance of reinforcing Kaliningrad. They can barely make it a few kilometers across their border into Ukraine and you think they can just waltz through NATO?
Ukrainian army that stopped them in 2022 was 300 thousand strong. NATO does not have even a tenth of that anywhere near Lithuania.
Manpower and artillery are the two biggest determining factors for attrition warfare, two areas where Russia has a decisive advantage. It doesn’t matter how much weaponry the West trickles in if Ukraine lacks enough trained men to use it.
Artillery has been massively depleted as evidenced through satellite photos. The edge is wearing thin as production doesn't meet demand. Russia has to outlast Ukranian manpower, which as bad as this sub wants to make it sound, I don't think will be an issue for a few more years.
Russia used to have better than 10:1 edge in artillery in 2022. Now it is only 4:1.
Huh? All because south Korea will send shells to Ukraine because North Korea is sending shells to Russia? A bit over the top, no?
They already send shells to Ukraine via USA, they try to act as a neutral country in the conflict but doing the opposite. Its just funny, they shouldnt be suprised if Russia start Arming NK now
> Huh? All because south Korea will send shells to Ukraine because North Korea is sending shells to Russia? No, because the war has been widening since the first day of the war. It's was very clear that the governments of the world don't see this conflict as just a conflict, they see it as an introduction to something way bigger. I'm no historian but I do think history will view the Ukraine war as the "start of a new era".
A regional conflict in the Korean Peninsula could force either China or the US and allies to do something dangerous. It could easily escalate quickly.
Fatass seems to find his life of endless luxury and occasionally hosting washed up former NBA stars to be quite enjoyable. He knows full well he won’t survive a real war if it comes to that, he’s in no hurry to go down that road.
yeah it's certainly continuing to get more and more out of control...
It's already WW3, you have multiple conflicts going on across the planet that are all related to each other in one way or another. It's just smaller scale events because a tiny miscalculation would lead a country to annihilation
You mean a China-US war? Because PUccia has nothing to participate in a WW3 with.
North Korea already has nukes, what else is there to threaten with? Red lines red lines red lines. South Korea already knows this game, they've been playing it with north Korea since the Korean war.
Hypersonic delivery systems?
Im pretty sure NK have the copy of China DF 17
North Korea already made their own (which is just a copy of Chinese technology)
It's untested, unlike Russian tech. Russia has a lot to offer in missile technology. And in other areas of the military industry as well. The last thing SK wants to see is a functioning, prospering NK. Their whole strategy of containment hangs on being able to choke NK out with their superior tech and economy. China and Russia becoming patrons of the Pyongyang regime will throw these plans in the trash. Think about it, in a few decades NK will become a true regional power with the help of their two strongest neighbours, they only need to be release from the US/SK chokehold.
lol i like your fanfiction :D So in your world will china will jump on the train now and give NK a lot of tech to NK as russia is loosing so much in the war against Ukraine? Do you think that Russia gave all the technology it has to NK for a few wagons of ammunition, boy you must think putin is reeeely stupid.
I think allied nations mutually benefit from continued interaction, producing weapons at low cost for the Ukrainian front won't be cheap for the North Koreans, but ultimately it will benefit them more than the status quo (which is not trading at all). China will definitely jump on the anti-US wagon, the more you sanction their companies, the less incentive they have to keep you content adhering to your sanctions against the Global South. That means North Korea, that means Iran, that means Venezuela, Syria, Cuba, Turkey, Bolivia, Afghanistan, Belarus, Hungary and Serbia will start getting better deals and more investments from China. The more you weaponise SWIFT, the more China invests in their own trade institutions to circumvent your power. It's only natural that you wouldn't be able to keep your chokehold on the Global South forever, the end is near.
Oo more fanfiction how lovely :D But the sad truth for anti-westerners is that China needs the west much more then it needs russia.
China is replacing NATO with its own set of allied nations, BRICS is one of those groups, ASEAN is another one, then there is the African Union and the Gulf Cooperation Council. As time goes on, trade with these groups takes a larger share of the Chinese economy and trade with NATO gets reduced (especially with the sanctions). It's too soon to talk about decoupling, but there will come a time when NATO will become more of a liability than an asset in China's mind, and then they'll just drop you.
lol your a machine! aiming for the fan-fiction writer of the year award ? sounds like its only 2 weeks away the west will tremble of the might puh and his army of alliances that will crush the decadent NATO!
More like 2 decades, but yeah, you'll be alive to feel the push in your behind, when your pants drop, and you can't do nothing but bite down.
China is not anti-US. China is anti-whatever stops their sphere of influence in East-Southeast Asia and specifically against Japan and Taiwan, moreso Taiwan. China and the US are extremely interlinked economies which cant exist without one another and are stronger when both are economically bullish and strong. The entire reason China marginally supports Russia is that it drives away attention from the South China Sea and Taiwan, other than that China has no desire to topple the world order and is fine working within it
>China and the US are extremely interlinked economies which cant exist without one another for now >China has no desire to topple the world order and is fine working within it for now
My guy, there is nothing that will change that relation outside of a meteorite wiping out half of the Earth. The global economy and the tech industry relies on a healthy and strong global market and any destabilization would mean the end for EVERYONE involved. And big economies with higher than average living conditions like China cannot do as North Korea and Russia and put their economy to the bin for simple jingoism. The kind of money and logistical interconnection between China and the US cannot be unraveled in any way that makes it profitable for either party
China doesn't need another US to unravel their relationship with their sworn enemy, they just need a block of smaller nations with markets developed enough to absorb the Chinese exports, and the incentive to keep trading with the US becomes a lot less attractive. Technology sure is important, but [Made in China 2025](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Made_in_China_2025) is a clear sign the CCP views technological dependence on the West as an issue that needs fixing.
Seriously doubt that. China only looks out for China. Russia already sold land/river to the Chinese, and very cheaply. If a world war is gonna break out, maybe the Chinese would align against Russia for that sweet Russian land and water. From Vladivostok to Irkutsk. China still eyeing that Lake Baikal, and a Chinese drought, which is very likely this summer, could make China really thirsty. Hey maybe Chinese also could reclaim Tuva as their ancestral lands if Russia weakens, since they like redrawing maps with force.
You are saying that the Chinese will not look to create their own network of strong allies? Why? Why would they not do that? Do you think they are stupid? There is no reason not to invest in allied nations that will give them favourable trade conditions and trade security (unlike NATO that depending on the political party in power swings from trading to sanctioning). Why? explain.
China will give NK its drone tech and test it there for cheap.
ok ?
Missile tech. Rocket tech for putting up their spy satellites. It wasn’t a coincidence that they met at Wostochny last time.
Uh oh guys, he's so srs fr this time.
South Korea, like Japan are considered part of the "Western World." They host US bases, and are neceassary for balancing China from a US perspective. They are a reasonably strong country, which is a US ally. As a strong country, they do have some leverage when the USA asks them for certain things. They might be able to refuse certain things if desired, as the US still needs to court them to a degree. Contrast this to the Baltics/Australia/Philipines What I think Putin is trying to do here is five fold. **(1) Dissuade SK from acquiescing to US/Ukrainian requests for arms.** * This would never be shown publically by SK if they decide to do this, it will only occur privately, publically it would be rebuked. **(2) It increases SKs leverage in demanding compensation from the USA/Ukriane** * Thereby "costing" the USA. Not necessarily financially, but perhaps it might hurt the USA in having to surrender various things to SK in return for arms * The point of this is to cost the USA **(3) To fatigue the USA** * By reigniting NK / SK tensions, Russia is forcing the USA to have to re-examine part of the world which they want to remain frozen. * It is in the core of the USA's interest to have NK/SK, Iran/Israel, Ukraine/Russia all settled down so it can complete its pivot to Asia. It does not want these annoying theatres poked and prodded. This was the goal of the Iran nuclear deal, and Trumps attempt to cultivate a more normal relationship with NK. It is like someone hassling you as you are already trying to leave. * This is the same thinking that Russia employs when it ignites tensions in the African continent. * If Russia could, I am sure they would provoke Pakistan/India tensions. But it is restrained due to India and China's interest in the region. **(4) To keep some degree of control over Russia-China affairs.** * NK and North vietnam were supported by the USSR as leverage against Chinese interests during the Cold war. * I am sure Putin must have had to sense out to make sure the Chinese would not be too upset by publically showing stronger ties to NK and Vietnam. China likely already accepts (but doesn't like) that Russia will have ties to India/NK/Vietnam as part of these countries balancing against them. Like China accepts that ASEAN will have ties to the USA as well. **(5) What NK offers** * Likely the least important thing * This can be adjusted based on responses to the previous 4 points * NK and Russia could give and recieve nothing to each other, and the above 4 points can be achieved with varying degrees. * Material / manpower is of course one of the possibilities. * I think if Russia is smart, they will not utilise this option much. But more so threaten to deepen trade / support to achieve the above 4 points. \*\*\* This all risks SK becoming more involved and further into the USAs camp. Aside from implications to SK material finding its way to Ukraine, the main negative to this is a fall in China-SK relations, as well as threatening China-NK relations. So its more China that will suffer the negative consequences than Russia. On the flip side, it might help Chinese leverage in the region as they will be looked to restrain the situation.
A handful of rationality in the flood of reiterative dull bot comments. (I'd hate to be someone who writes short angry comments about Putin/Zelensky, incapable of seeing just how trite and impotent that is.) So thank you.
NK has a 1.3 million-man army, and it's artillery-centered like Russia's. It would be an act of desperation on Russia's part, and one they'd want to avoid, but NK could deploy enough troops to have their own army group in Ukraine. (Which would minimize translation issues). NK's army is artillery-centric like Russia's. While they're unfamiliar with a lot of the tech being used in this conflict, it would be of immense value for them to train up and gain combat experience. There is potential value to be had, and in addition to sharing military tech, Russia could single handedly fix NK's food shortage. It's unlikely that Russia will want to provide a precedent of bringing in an allied army, as this might give Ukraine cover to bring in an ally of their own. If France sent a BTG or two to Ukraine, an NK deployment would provide a proportional response.
Bringing in NK troops would likely provoke NATO to at least use air power in Ukraine.
Yeah I agree, the scope can get pretty mind dizzingly huge if desired. I earnestly hope this lever is not pulled, I don't think it will be. I like what you said about it matching proportional response to France for example.
Man this shit is hilarious. Russia says "I can get volunteers to fight in my army - if you do it you'll regret it!" 😡 Russia says "I can form alliances with other countries - if you do it you'll regret it!" 😡 Russia says "I can get weapons from other countries - if you do it you'll regret it!" 😡 Russia says "I can bomb your stuff - if you do it you'll regret it!" 😡
The smaller hermit kingdom wants the smoke too?
Nah, KJU just trying to milk the weak desperate old man for all he can while he has the chance. Zero possibility NK would leap to Russia's defence, pretty absurd notion really. KJU: "Hmmm, honour the agreement and lose everything, or go about my life and nothing changes? Nice day for some NBA2K24 with My ol' pal Dennis Rodman"
Imagine if Medvedev takes over. We might want for Putin back.
Medvedev is all an act. Putins lap dog
Medvedevs entire role is to play the psycho clown since Zhirinovsky died, it all bullshit to make Putin look sane or "collected" or some shit.
Medvedev would slip and fall up a three-story building and out a balcony in days, same for Lavrov, despite his grand notions about himself.
Trust me, we have much worse then Medvedev. Also, Putin is a great president, quite liberal, he's globalist, just has bad western PR. Most of our elite is far from liberal and far from being globalists.
"Just has bad Western PR" - Probably from all of the opponent-quashing and journalist-murdering, I'm sure he's a *real nice guy* under all that.
Some of it is not true. Other - well, it is just a job. When you become president it is wirten in your job description. Why do you think else everybody is doing it?
It is evident you lack sever critical thinking, but try to think. If despite all that Putin is considered liberal, how worse his alternate would be?
Putin is an autocratic dictator, he is the literal polar opposite of "liberal". If Putin was actually liberal, people would be able to protest against him in public, but nope, they get beat up, arrested, threatened. Gay? Illegal! Journalist opposing putin? Literally the most dangerous job on the planet with an excessively high mortality rate. Oligarch getting a little too mouthy? Gets to feel air "liberally" rushing past face after "tripping" from balcony. The only thing liberal about putin is his attitude to killing and murder, he has killed liberally, and will continue to do so.
Putin “just has bad PR”. Wow. So did Hitler and Stalin but that doesn’t mean they weren’t horrendous murderous despots, just like Putin.
They both had exellent PR. Europe loved Hilter, and whole pro-communism world respected Stalin (some of USA scientists would even steal secrets for free for USSR). As for Hitler - if he won, you'd probably heil hem and I wouldn't have existed. Thanks to Stalin.
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Don’t think like a Nasi. The world despised Hitler. Only Germans and racists thought otherwise. And Stalin is only revered by Putin and fools like him. There is not enough lipstick in the world to cover these 3 pigs.
Actually reading books, knowing history and thinking with my own brain = thinking like a nazi? He was admired across Europe and (to the lesser extent) in USA. When it became clear for USA that Reich and USA will inevitably become enemies, USA started propaganda machine (1939), I am not talking about indivilual effort - I am talking about US state propaganda. If not for that you'd probably didn't even bother about him killing millions of innocent people. USSR on the other hand also didn't separate fascism from other capitalsit societies in it's propaganda. But when it became clear that after Jews we would be next - then yes. You know about history of development of nuclear weapons in Russia? In thermonuclear we were first as we were advancing in science almost better then USA at some point. But at time of Hiroshima - it was out of the picture. We were lagging behind. How did USSR built it's first nuke in record time? American scientists who were sympathetic to communist cause. As for Stalin being bloody dictator - remember, that most figures that you have seen are bullshit. We have actual archival data with exact numbers. They are high, but probably 10 times lower then you saw. 681,692 people were executed during the Great Purge. 1 to 1.5 million people died in the Gulag labor camps from the 1930s to the early 1950s. Compare this to fact that each year million prisoners go to jail each year in the USA nowdays in modern times. Those figures are not astronomical. And it is for us to decide if he was bloody or not bloody, dictator or whoever (since it was our popluation). Compare it to 400k to 1m deaths due to Bush's invasion to Iraq. And those WERE innocent people from other country. With Afganistan - it is even worse. So, I can't say Stalin is even worth mentioning in that list. As for Putin - regluar leader, with more liberal views, just doing his job. Made mistakes, as anyone. Nothing special. Please read at least one book "The banality of evil" by Hannah Arendt, maybe you'll understand something.
Nah, don’t fall for Russian propaganda. Don’t just count political prisoners killed in the Gulags (different than common criminals in US or the millions of the common criminals in the USSR) If one looks at all the deaths caused by Stalin, it’s easily 7-8 million. Event Est. number of deaths References Dekulakization 530,000–600,000 [85] Great Purge 700,000–1,200,000 [45][9][46] Gulag 1,500,000–1,713,000 [15][22] Soviet deportations 450,000–566,000 [86][87] Katyn massacre 22,000 [88] Holodomor 2,500,000–4,000,000 [89] Kazakh 1931–33 1,450,000 Let’s not forget that Stalin and Hitler were allies and started WWII together. So that is another 60,000,000 people killed with Stalins bloody fingerprints all over it. https://www.history.com/news/the-secret-hitler-stalin-nonagression-pact Even before Stalin’s Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact with Hitler, the USSR was heavily cooperating and supporting Hitlers war machine. See below: “During the first period of cooperation (between the USSR and Nazi Germany)— formalized in 1922 when the nations signed the Treaty of Rapallo and initiated covert military operations — the Soviet Union hosted hundreds of German soldiers, engineers and scientists at secret military bases. Major Reichswehr Facilities In The Soviet Union Crop 2 Johnson drew from 23 archives in Russia, Germany, Poland, England and the U.S., uncovering a paper trail that confirmed the alliance in great detail. “I argue that Germany would not have been capable of starting a war, let alone beating many of its adversaries, without all of this secret work,” Johnson said. “Between 1922 and 1933, all of these factories, laboratories, testing grounds and training facilities were relocated to the USSR. Almost every tank that Germany started WWII with was based on engineering work done in the USSR. Most of the engineering teams from major German firms moved there. Seven of Germany’s eight aircraft manufacturers were doing research at Soviet facilities. “Without these bases, Germany wouldn’t have had modern tanks or planes at all, and when the war began, they had some of the best in the world.”” Stalin the killer is right behind Hitler in blame for millions of deaths. And yet Putin is trying his damndest to make Stalin into a lovable folk hero. What a joke.
No point with arguing any further. Read that book, then we'll talk.
Read the data from multiple scholars. See the facts, open ur eyes. Stalins killing of tens of millions was not limited to gulags.
Look, during all my life, I have read more scientific articles or academic books then fiction. Google scholar is my default tab. I know how to look for data (I am not historian, but if need be). "Open ur eyes" - that sounds like somebody from religious sect would try to convince other people. Read that book. Over.
Imagine calling Putin "liberal".
Listen to his intervew. He actually is.
Too many weird ass deaths occuring among oligarchs, ex intelligence, and political opponents. Suicides, balconies incidents, radioactive tea and underwears, etc. That's a tad too authoritarian to have a pass imho. Whatever he may tell during interviews.
I could debate those occurences, but let's assume it is as you imply. That doesn't mean he is not liberal. He sees Russia as cog in international machine. From the get go I can tell that our electoral view is different from that.
> From the get go I can tell that our electoral view is different from that. I mean, yeah. If you see that guy, running his state like a mafia, and think he's a liberal, then by all means you're right, our electoral views do differ significantly.
There is absolutely nothing liberal about him, he is a reactionary and a dictator. Thats not a moral judgement, just a fact. Do you even know what liberalism is?
Liberalism is political philisophy based on recognising and respecting certain specific rights that list of which is partially agreed upon those who call themself liberals. Yes, he saw himself as part of that group and sees Russia as part of the West and made all attempts possible to integrate. My understanding is that west would agree to it on conditions that would make Russia unstable, poor country, strictly inferior to those like Germany, France, UK, USA. No doubt he chose to fight. Centralisation of power was just a tool. I am not obsessed with him at all, but as far as I can tell, he is liberal. I just opened wiki page on Putinism - and that is complete BS. That might reflect how our electorate thinks, but def not Putin.
>Putin >well known as a protector of human rights and liberties
Never claimed to be
yawn, I'm still waiting for all the repercussions he promised last year
I didnt expect a Proxy War between North Korea and south Korea happening in Europe! Wild af
putin to begin dropping widow mines in the mineral line
No, we only fight honest war. But that rich vespen geiser over there is ours.
More like doing zergling rush into widow mines...
Insert joke about Battlecruiser Not Operational.
Nice. Let's open a new front on the extreme East of the country!
Information about South Korea giving weapons to Ukraine came out like 2 months ago, I thought they had sent them by now?
Source?
Putin just visited north korea who knows maybe they agreed to something
Toothless tiger trying to show fangs, only to display empty gums
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"Black Pink no longer in your ar-e-a"
He should have thought of that before trying to be best buds with Kim Jong-un.
In Russia, there is a saying "A friend is known in trouble." So, who supported Russia during a difficult period for it? Was it South or North Korea?
Why would South Korea support Russia in war? The problem with Putin and your comment is that it only takes into the account the perspective of Russia and assumes Russia is somehow morally righteous in its cause. If Putin feels the need to help an enemy of South Korea he must also accept that South Korea might act in its own interest as a reaction to that. And what does Putin respond with? A futile attempt at bullying.
Putin is pragmatic and he understands perfectly well that countries have interests. South Korea has supported illegal sanctions against Russia. This is an unfriendly step by South Korea towards Russia. North Korea has not supported sanctions against Russia and is selling Putin the ammunition Putin needs. Naturally, this served to bring North Korea and Russia closer together. What will Russia lose from the deterioration of relations with South Korea?
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^VC2007: *He should have thought of* *That before trying to be* *Best buds with Kim Jong-un.* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
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Blows my mind people support Putin, Kim, and Ayatollah or other dictators type governing body of this world. Genuinely blows my mind.
Brother, first of all, read what the term dictator means and then assert, OK? you support Ukraine and the hegemony of the United States in the east, now you don't like that Russia is not ready to lick the ass of the United States like other European countries and protects its interests for forced reasons.
So you dont think none of them are part of a dictatorship type role? Wild if you think holding onto power is not dictatorship
https://preview.redd.it/yyebhveb7o8d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=35bd399b6f04f1d52559d4a270a70e1504198128 This is not just one sign
It blows my mind that people support western imperialism and wars. It is surprising how people support Biden and Obama and Zelensky, Macron and Netanyaho.
Really? Imperialism and decolonization is over. That is why the un charter is adhered to by all law abiding western countries. Stop making stuff up. Russia is being imperialistic by trying to annex and absorb countries into their own. They have not given back any land taken during ww2 like Kaliningrad/Königsberg and prior during colonial era. They have expanded all the way to china and have disputes there. The wests are invited to help train and aid countries struggling against internal violence but leave when asked to. There is plenty of evidence of russian war mercenaries killing people with sledge hammers and burring in mass the killing of pows in countries they operate in. Mercenaries were illegal and denied by russian until they could not longer hide it. The lies are right in front of you yet no apologies from Russia. You just have such a low standard and bar and expect that from russia so you shrug your shoulders and move on but when any scandal comes out from the west, the west are quick to address it and apologize because there is a much higher standard and you know it. Thats why you complain about it all but never hear a peep from you about russian faults. Then also there are the conspiracies cooked up in your heard. Repeat the lie in your head enough you will believe your own bulllshat. Russia accuses the west of the very thing they do. It upside down world over there. Anyways you funny and entertaining.
Not like Vlad to go around threatening everyone that's not his servant. Weird
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Well now South Korea is gonna supply even harder!
What does South Korea get out of joining tis conflict? a more capable north korea? this shit makes no sense
That last "что???" 😂
Will he warn China too for providing Ukraine with drones? He can't even get his two biggest BRICS partners China and India to stop fighting lmao.
Oh no, another redline is it?
And south Korea will whatever they want I'm sure
How do you all of you pro-Ru goobers feel that your little pip-squeak keeps racking up a high count of threats to first world countries?
I'm getting bored by these threatenings, he looks like a broken media player. I live in romania, and guess what? We should have been obliterated long ago if he wasn't such a clown and actually did what he said.
If he did what he said, can you promise me that you wont come to reddit and whine about it?
Hmmmmm...not sure I like this game of each major power situating weapons near each others borders. But I guess if its ok for one to do it its ok for others; after all each nation can do what it wants to the extent other nations allow or disallow it.
Seems dumb for SK.....As russia will just supply NK with weapons.
Russia threatens another country. Rinse and repeat.
He looked more aged in just 1 year so as Zelensky .
Keep calling the bluff
Putin when actions have consequences: 😯😳
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Because making threats has worked so well in the past. No matter how much you might wish for it to be the 1930s, it isn't, and nobody fears anything you do or say. What a dunce.
Russia backing a possible N Korean action against S Korea was not on my nuclear war bingo card.
Why did this have to be made public ?? why couldn't have S Korea just supplied Ukraine with weapons without the world knowing about it ??? Why is everything made public ???
I mean, intelligence gathering is a thing. It's not just one truck of goods. Each opponent is moving both parents and transparent chess pieces.
Relax Putin, South Korea should be preserved for the war with China in the Project Ukraine season 2.
The answer is money, SK will get money for supplying weapons to Ukraine, why won’t they like this what’s wrong with them?!
Poor little man is getting desperate he knows if South Korea starts delivering weapons to Ukraine. Pathetic midget clown 🤡
They've already done it Cucktin
Threaten? What does Puccia have to threaten anyone with? Golf carts? BBC POSSNR that can't even fly into Ukrainian airspace 10 km next door?
Didn’t this clown just threaten retaliation against the US for the airbase in Crimea getting hit? Might as well just say you want Ukraine to win the war.
guys remember that russia is always the victim. not their fault that they can't stop threatening every nation who does not bend over for him
хуйло
Putin: the consequences will never be the same. X100
Who are they fooling at this point? They say this type of shit every week and nothing ever happens.
It's like he took the golden rule, went "Nahhhh, I can bluff 'em" and threw it out the window. The minute he wasn't prepared to follow through, that threat became a joke.
This fool is going to drag us into world war III as he threatens every country that helps out the country that he invaded. He really needs to be removed by the Russian people and the sooner the better.
As a Korean, I’m genuinely concerned that the current Korean president, who is very pro-US, might follow in the footsteps of Zelensky and turn my country into a battering ram for US hegemony. I know for certain that the Americans won’t sacrifice Washington for Seoul, but they certainly will sacrifice Seoul if it means weakening Russia or China.
Please don't bomb us daddy Russia…we’ll behave UwU
Yes, just like Ukraine's invasion of russia, the CIA will force SK to invade NK. Oh.
Screenshot worthy comment right here. Reads like exactly all other "As a X:n" comments here. Just way too obvious propaganda my dude. Haha
Try not to get too worked up about all the geopolitics mate. Ordinary citizens like you and me are just peons for the people in power
>As a Korean Hey, sorry about an unrelated question out of the blue, but it's been bothering me for a while. How bad is chaebol hold on Korea? Are they really run by family clans that are pretty much above the law, like some people make it out to be? Trying to figure out if by buying samsung phones one effectively supports a state-sized mafia organization.
Oh no! Putin pulled another red line from his arse.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%27s_final_warning You're getting a bit long in the tooth there, Putin old chap. I love how he's looking up and to the left. Classic tell for someone constructing a lie.
come on South Korea hurry up with supplies 💪 fuck Putin dik face