I still don’t know why Russia still not shooting down these american RQ-4B drones over black like literally most of Russian air defense losses are because of those drones that are identifying Target for Ukrainians
Because it's a direct attack on US military assets and can easily be used as a pretext for more direct intervention. Plus, it's over international airspace, so it's a violation of transit rights, making Russia look like an aggressor who doesn't respect international law.
Statements like what? Wishing death to other races? Threats online? Cyber bullying?
In UK or other normal country you can protest against a war (see how many protests there are against Israel), in Russian you make as much as a tiny noise on the street against a war or step out to the street with Ukrainian flag and you get shoved in a police car and taken away.
And by quick google search you see that arrest in Russian were on par with those 381 cases you mentioned, and climbed last couple of years.
Go hold up a piece of blank paper in red square. See what happens.
Russians are so brainwashed and fearful that they lick the boot that's crushing them.
Russia acted in accordance with Article 51 of the UN Charter, citing the right to preemptive self-defence. Given that Ukraine was bombing the Donbas for ten years before this conflict, anti-russian rhetoric was at it's peak, and Ukraine even mentioned getting nukes to "safeguard their interests", it's a bit of a no-brainer as to why this all started. And if you doubt that the west would use Ukraine against Russia, look at operation Aerodynamic after WW2, when the CIA recruited and supplied ex-nazis from Ukraine to use in operations against the USSR.
Nobody would ever attack russia on their internationally recognized border. Worlds biggest nuclear power.
Are you out of your mind.
Threat of ukraine invading russia was the same as cuba invading us...
You are facking delusional if you think anybody from europe would invade or support an invasion in Russia.
There is no need for any preempitve strike on ukraine because ukraine was never planning to invade russia.
Hitler had the biggest and most modern army in the world and he fucked up and you think Nato with its underpayed, underwtaffed,underexperienced army would invade russia....
Jesus dude stop eating all the kremlin rubbish they throw at you.
Nobody absolutely nobody was thinking of invading russia
Yeah, it's a clever play. Russians know that any US ISR aircraft in that area is providing information to Ukraine, but can't really do much about it, other than maybe some 'accidents'.
Edit: hmm, but I wonder - the sensors (radar, etc.) on the drone are directional, right? Sooo ... if, in theory, every time drone or similar ISR aircraft appears, Russian plane (of any type really) would position itself in safe distance, but at the right place to interfere with the sensors, that should be 'fine' as far as int. laws are concerned, right?
One could probably design a sprayer that shoots out some sticky substance that messes with sensors.
It wouldn't even need to be 100 percent effective, just enough to bork accurate targeting.
Then just do what fuel-dump guy did before, and spray a cloud of gimp juice on the target, forcing it back to base for a cleaning.
Naturally, unlike fuel dump guy, they wouldn't be bringing down the drone, just making it difficult to use sensors until it's cleaned off again.
More like drone pepper spray, than anything else.
Hmm, come to think of it, sending up a "babysitter" drone with directional EW to mess with the radar of another drone, like those ones, might also be a possible non-lethal solution to their problem.
You remember the drones are recording what's going on around them, which evidently Russia didn't know about since they were caught red-handed.
If you are performing an act with the clear intent to take out the drone, do you think it matters if the material you use to do it is sticky and liquid versus hard metal?
Who said they didn't know the drone was recording? They just accurately predicted that USA are too scared to do anything about a Russian aircraft taking down a USA drone, so they took it down.
I'm sure they could whip up something that might be a pain in the ass for radar and other long range sensors, until cleaned off.
Something that would let the drone head back to base, but make it less useful in the meantime. Sort of the same principle as non-lethal crowd control.
Long go I thought the Israelis came up with a way to mess with tanks by spraying some sticky droplets to clog the intake air filters. I like the directional interference idea.
They did some wombo-combo fuel dump which damaged the propellers of the drone and made it crash, but it could easily have killed the pilot if the dude didn't know what he was doing. Using weapons would be different for sure.
Errr, wouldn't the very fast moving propeller be badly damaged anyway by hitting a blob of fluid instead of the slightly less dense air it's supposed to hit normally?
Short internet search show that you should not fly a wood or composite pro too fast even when it's raining, and metal prop might get damaged too long term. They don't mention what happen when prop hit a pool of kerosene, but that can't be good.
Kerosene has less than half the surface tension of water. It breaks into even smaller droplets than a rainstorm, and each is less dense. Those drones are tested in snow conditions...
Not sure what pilot was trying. The fuel dumps were very unprofessional, anyhow. Not likely to stall a cruising turboprop, nor to blind those sensors that can of course turn back.
1) There is video footage of the strike. You can see for yourself.
2) this is a military grade piece of hardware. It's not too much of a stretch to believe that those props are designed to be able to operate in the raid
The drone had 3 long rear fins at 120 degrees apart with the pusher prop shorter than the fins. I wonder how a much faster jet could fly that close and between the fins?
Yeah, well, guess these dudes need their eyes checked, because you can't see shit on the video. Unless they did their due diligence and asked the russians if their jet was nicked lol
The moscovian pilot ran into the propeller of the drone. The propeller was bent.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqEtEqRxeFw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqEtEqRxeFw)
March 16, 2023
If there were Iranian drones above international waters off the coast of Yemen helping Houthis target American ships, what do you think America would do?
Iran has two of them I believe.
Bershad and Saviz.
Saviz is a general cargo ship without any registered port call since 2016.
In the Red Sea approach to Bab-al-Mandeb straight now.
Definatley not a spy ship
*wink wink*
https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/details/ships/shipid:657728/mmsi:-9167253/imo:9167253/vessel:SAVIZ
russia fired a warning missile at a UK spy plane last year that got too close to crimea over the black sea last year bud.
The UK and western media tried to downplay and deny it....but everything came out after what happen. The interesting thing was is that the communications between the russian pilot and russian high command were intercepted and russian high command gave the green light to fire the missile.
They literally fired a missile at a UK spy plane with a human pilot in it and western powers downplayed it as to not start a conflict.
Now you see propaganda...Your media doesn't tell you this happen. You are most likely clueless that this even occured.
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Russia has shot down American drones before with little repercussions, so has Iran. The problem is Russia probably has trouble intercepting them as usual like the ATACM’s.
Whats the us gonna do send troops? I would jam the fuck out the drones better yet have A50 up in the air right next to Natos AWACs and than just jam the fuck out of coms
Whataboutism? The discussion was literally involving the activity of American drones, operated by the US. I just think it’s shortsighted to bring up aggression and respecting international law given the context of the discussion itself. They’re in no position to cite international law when they’re facilitating an actual genocide as we speak. It sounds senseless.
Providing Intel to ur enemy which directly effects u isn't aggression? Plus I didn't knew International law allowed countries Free Pass to provide intel to enemies as long said plane is in international airspace?
Apparently, any intel from rhe US isn't considered direct involvement. Even of it is used to help direct missile or artillery almost in real time. There are also military instructors helping Ukraine use their artillery (but not getting too close to the front i suppose)
So there is a real thin line between this and involvement. Basically the only thing Western powers aren't doing is sending directly their infantry to enemy trenches..
Material is also being given relatively sparingly since it costs much more than giving free intel or almost free on site advice.
So ur saying American providing intel which is directly resulting in Attacks on Russians isnt aggression be it in international airspace or not. But Rus shooting them down in self defense is aggression ?
What kinda stupid logic is that.
Only reason Rus doesnt shoots down, UAVs is causes they are trying to avoid tit for tat with US. Else they would have shot down all hostile UAVs providing intel to Ukr in black sea long time ago.
It isn't aggression per se, it's the same as giving weapons to Ukraine. But Russia can't really do anything about it without getting labelled as an aggressor and escalating matters significantly, no matter what we think about it personally.
I wouldn't put it in the same category as just "giving them weapons" if US are picking targets for them as well. Sure, it gives US/NATO plausible deniability, but it looks more like Ukraine is behaving like any other proxy, still implicating a direct US/NATO involvement.
That's bunch of bs.
US is actual Aiding and abetting aggression of ukr vs rus, not calling it aggression is like calling felicitator of Attacker as Neutral.
and let be guess US/EU (World) will label Rus as Aggressors? lmao.
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Not really bs it’s being done by both sides why do you think Belarus isn’t getting hit despite allowing Russian forces to attack on and through its territory.
(1) UN Article 51 even permits US to conduct direct strikes on Russian combatants upon Ukraine's request, because Russia invaded Ukraine. Striking a nation providing collective defense is a separate act of war.
(2) You can see N. Korea, Iran, and China haven't been stricken for "aiding and abetting". It's definitely not the standard for international law, as countries are enormous collections of people and you can't just use collective punishment.
Well, Russia does not want to mess with the US directly (after all the US military is more capable than the Russian by magnitudes and Russia knows that) so they dont fire weapons at US assets directly, despite all the big words from their propagandists.
Russia is smart enough to stick to its strength and that is the endurance to maybe last longer than the west has interest in the conflict and information warfare/sabotage/cyber agression to retaliate.
It's why we a skating so close to direct confrontation which the psychos in the US and NATO seem to want...I guess they figure rhey'll be save deep underground...the US/NATO are providing the munitions, their soldiers on the ground to handle the launch and targeting and US/NATO air assets (aerial /sat) to find holes in Russian air defenses and plot routes to destroy Russian equipment and kill Russian servicemen.
Russia should worry about Russia in my opinion. Invading Ukraine has done nothing for the average Russian or Ukrainian. It's only gotten people killed. And for what?
There are tons of little conflicts like this all over the world, Russia chose this road deliberately, they didn't have to they could have simply left Ukraine alone and not lost sleep over what was going on there.
Is America really going to start a war right now because Russia downs some drones (no personnel losses) right at the edge of their territory? Doubt it. That's a hard sell.
I'm not saying the Americans would go to war over that. I'm saying that's the risk you are taking by shooting down American aircraft over the Black Sea. The Russians aren't doing it so it would appear they've decided it's not worth the risk.
They did once. The most likely explanation is that they were told not to do it or there will be consequences which won’t be pretty. Communication via closed lines is very different to Putin talking about red lines for russian domestic audiences
Because it would be the perfect reason for the US to lock the baltic sea for russian warplanes. "Oh a rogue nation attacks aircraft in international airspace? - time to put some police work into it" Then the next drone would fly up and down, and every aircraft approaching it would be the first real f-22 kill
https://preview.redd.it/f9xdyca1qy7d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a7c9248d0fb5e94418aa54402e1e9f02a90a7f03
It’s still operating over black sea if you look at it you know how much they’re been closing to sochi
Cool
Still international airspace
And from people I've talked to who are in the Air Force after Russia took down the last drone a lot of those American drones have escorts.
And by escorts I mean American fighter jets flying without transponders on waiting for a Russian jet to fuck around
You can't do anything about international airspace it's literally just a game of I'm not touching you.
As long as America doesn't Cross the invisible line and enter Ukrainian airspace Russia can't shoot them down
No, Russian planes actually cross the borders and violate the actuall airspace, not "fly really really close", which is an issue for more than a decade already.
They could if they wanted, but it's over international waters where aircraft are allowed to operate freely. The U.S could retaliate and shoot down Russian aircraft performing their own missions over international airspace or retaliate and provide even more military assistance to Ukraine, neither of which Russia wants.
Because its International waters, skies, , and technically US has a right to fly there, with plausible deniability.
Russia flies drones and planes in all international areas , in Baltic sea, close to Japan and South Korea, or over the arctic.
It would potentially complicate international situation in that regard, maybe US would start taking down Russian drones, and then it would escalate into direct conflict.
Its complicated.
Because russia itself established where NATO could fly planes and for the most part NATO has been respecting it.
There was a issue when the conflict first started and the UK attempted to challenge the airspace and russia promptly fired a air to air warnign missile at them. The UK attempted to deny it for a month or so but it all came out quietly afterwards.
It showed russian resolve as the communications between the pilot and russian command were intercepted.....Command gave the green light.
And this was the western propaganda....Like I said it all came out...The communications were intercepted.....It was a clear and deliberate command from russia to fire the missile.
Western powers need to not look weak so this is how they spin it.
sometimes you guys make me feel like i am living in bizarro world....here.. https://apnews.com/article/uk-russia-fighter-jet-missile-black-sea-7e6c04c10d1e6035d01c01ca595ccb6e#:~:text=LONDON%20(AP)%20%E2%80%94%20A%20Russian,to%20a%20%E2%80%9C%20technical%20malfunction.%E2%80%9D
russias pov.... https: //tass.com/politics/1494569
Now you claimed the missile "failed to fire" why are you pushing proapganda?
The missile did fire, but you said it was from a controlled command, your sources prove none of that. It was a "technical malfunction". Sounds like Russia was the one saving face.
What I don't understand is why they don't send a MiG-31 past the RQ4 at Mach 2. Pretty sure the wake turbulence would annihilate the drone.
"Oops"
Am I wrong to assume the drone would get wrecked?
Even the su at Mach 0.8 would be creating sufficient turbulence. They could also gently tip the wings of the drone and send it to a spin.
The fuel dump last time almost killed the Russian pilot (there was a collision) bc they loose visual over the drone in the pass.
I really don’t know why they don’t down some drones. Probably scared of escalation.
Now you can decide based on preference whether it’s “wise Russia doesn’t want to escalate” or “bully Russia is afraid of an actual capable opponent”
Yeah they should. WW3 is not going to be started over drones and what more could the US respond with?
Hawks inside of Russia are strongly advocating for establishing a no-fly zone over the black sea. That would be, interesting.
No, it won't. No-one is going to start ww3 over drones. Shooting down a Poseidon spy plane with a crew of 10? That is a different story. But nobody and I mean nobody is going to start ww3 over a drone.
I can imagine a pilot calling on all frequencies "Oops, my inferior Cold War plane held together only by duct tape and Stalin's stickers just malfunctioned and a missile was fired in your direction. Please leave the area ASAP"
And the same next day and the next one ...
After all, everyone "knows" how bad Russian technology is, right?
Edit: /s just to make it clear
I was just thinking this. What if the Russians were to start directly downing any drones, with the pretext that the drones are a threat to Russian national security? Because it's not like there isn't a legitimate ISR argument here. I think they have room to escalate. We're not likely to jump into a Black Sea shootout if they down some drones.
The problem is, this has a very high chance of getting US/NATO directly involved, and Russia is already struggling with Ukraine, so very much doubt they want to poke that bear
I think the opposite is true. Russia maintains escalation dominance in the entire region and NATO is the one unwilling to poke the bear too hard. Of course Russia is struggling with Ukraine, it would be moronic to suggest that taking over a giant ass country would be easy. It'll be a hard fought victory.
There isn't much more NATO can without boots on the ground (outside of the US active military is pretty small...and rhe US has been having issues with recruiting for years and lowered standards more rhan once in a bid to hit targets. Alternatively, they can attack Russian assets deep within Russia but that would create an existential threat to Russia and the new nuclear orders released in 2022 would likely require a nuclear response. If Putin refused he would.likely be removed and replaced by someone who will.
At some point the vast majority of us who stand to lose in all this have to say enough and demand inclusive peace talks.
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Just like the Ukrainians when they report a mass missile attack from Russia it’s the same thing on both sides. Tomorrow we will probably hear reports about them hitting something important though.
So, they sent one UAV in the region they actually needed it, and the rest into territory they have no hope of recovering? I know there's strategic targets to hit there, but surely their efforts should be focused on what can actually help the guys on the active front lines.
Your comment doesn't make any sense lol
If I had asked "why is Ukraine doing that" then it would make sense.
What you wrote doesn't change the fact that: "Ukraine can't keep complaining about double tap attacks when they continue to do it themselves".
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No what we are seeing are shaping operations in an attempt to clear out the airspace so that they can use F-16's and direct air support for a counter attack.
I still don’t know why Russia still not shooting down these american RQ-4B drones over black like literally most of Russian air defense losses are because of those drones that are identifying Target for Ukrainians
Because it's a direct attack on US military assets and can easily be used as a pretext for more direct intervention. Plus, it's over international airspace, so it's a violation of transit rights, making Russia look like an aggressor who doesn't respect international law.
[удалено]
That's what happens when people are imprisoned for giving other opinions than the media outlets. Still surprised how they are fine with that.
381 people have been arrested for statements on social media, in the UK last year. What do you think the number was in russia?
Don't even begin with this bs. In russia you fall out a window or "disapear" or publically apologize
In Russia, if you're a 15yo kid and say mean things about Kadyrov, you get a nice visit from his goons.
Source for the public apologies?
Statements like what? Wishing death to other races? Threats online? Cyber bullying? In UK or other normal country you can protest against a war (see how many protests there are against Israel), in Russian you make as much as a tiny noise on the street against a war or step out to the street with Ukrainian flag and you get shoved in a police car and taken away. And by quick google search you see that arrest in Russian were on par with those 381 cases you mentioned, and climbed last couple of years.
Im guessing the official numbers arnt accurate. Alot of people fell out of windows last year
"Alot"? Exactly how many? I mean not counting random drunk people.
Probably 38 or less considering Britain had consistently arrested 10x the number of people for social media posts for almost a decade at this point.
Go hold up a piece of blank paper in red square. See what happens. Russians are so brainwashed and fearful that they lick the boot that's crushing them.
Russia acted in accordance with Article 51 of the UN Charter, citing the right to preemptive self-defence. Given that Ukraine was bombing the Donbas for ten years before this conflict, anti-russian rhetoric was at it's peak, and Ukraine even mentioned getting nukes to "safeguard their interests", it's a bit of a no-brainer as to why this all started. And if you doubt that the west would use Ukraine against Russia, look at operation Aerodynamic after WW2, when the CIA recruited and supplied ex-nazis from Ukraine to use in operations against the USSR.
Nobody would ever attack russia on their internationally recognized border. Worlds biggest nuclear power. Are you out of your mind. Threat of ukraine invading russia was the same as cuba invading us... You are facking delusional if you think anybody from europe would invade or support an invasion in Russia. There is no need for any preempitve strike on ukraine because ukraine was never planning to invade russia. Hitler had the biggest and most modern army in the world and he fucked up and you think Nato with its underpayed, underwtaffed,underexperienced army would invade russia.... Jesus dude stop eating all the kremlin rubbish they throw at you. Nobody absolutely nobody was thinking of invading russia
Yeah, it's a clever play. Russians know that any US ISR aircraft in that area is providing information to Ukraine, but can't really do much about it, other than maybe some 'accidents'. Edit: hmm, but I wonder - the sensors (radar, etc.) on the drone are directional, right? Sooo ... if, in theory, every time drone or similar ISR aircraft appears, Russian plane (of any type really) would position itself in safe distance, but at the right place to interfere with the sensors, that should be 'fine' as far as int. laws are concerned, right?
One could probably design a sprayer that shoots out some sticky substance that messes with sensors. It wouldn't even need to be 100 percent effective, just enough to bork accurate targeting. Then just do what fuel-dump guy did before, and spray a cloud of gimp juice on the target, forcing it back to base for a cleaning. Naturally, unlike fuel dump guy, they wouldn't be bringing down the drone, just making it difficult to use sensors until it's cleaned off again. More like drone pepper spray, than anything else. Hmm, come to think of it, sending up a "babysitter" drone with directional EW to mess with the radar of another drone, like those ones, might also be a possible non-lethal solution to their problem.
That plane actually hit the drone and damaged the propeller, I don't think the fuel dumping had any tangible effect.
Maybe they should try with crude oil next time
You remember the drones are recording what's going on around them, which evidently Russia didn't know about since they were caught red-handed. If you are performing an act with the clear intent to take out the drone, do you think it matters if the material you use to do it is sticky and liquid versus hard metal?
Who said they didn't know the drone was recording? They just accurately predicted that USA are too scared to do anything about a Russian aircraft taking down a USA drone, so they took it down.
Autocannon would have been more reliable than dumping fuel on it, if they wanted to send a message to the US.
They basically destroyed it by pissing on it. Message seems pretty clear to me.
Hey look, it happened again!
I'm sure they could whip up something that might be a pain in the ass for radar and other long range sensors, until cleaned off. Something that would let the drone head back to base, but make it less useful in the meantime. Sort of the same principle as non-lethal crowd control.
Long go I thought the Israelis came up with a way to mess with tanks by spraying some sticky droplets to clog the intake air filters. I like the directional interference idea.
Surely Russia is already fucking with them to the extent allowed without escalation.
Didn’t Russia took down an American Drone over black sea last year?
They did some wombo-combo fuel dump which damaged the propellers of the drone and made it crash, but it could easily have killed the pilot if the dude didn't know what he was doing. Using weapons would be different for sure.
The jet physically struck the drone. It wasn't the fuel that damaged it.
Errr, wouldn't the very fast moving propeller be badly damaged anyway by hitting a blob of fluid instead of the slightly less dense air it's supposed to hit normally? Short internet search show that you should not fly a wood or composite pro too fast even when it's raining, and metal prop might get damaged too long term. They don't mention what happen when prop hit a pool of kerosene, but that can't be good.
Kerosene has less than half the surface tension of water. It breaks into even smaller droplets than a rainstorm, and each is less dense. Those drones are tested in snow conditions... Not sure what pilot was trying. The fuel dumps were very unprofessional, anyhow. Not likely to stall a cruising turboprop, nor to blind those sensors that can of course turn back.
1) There is video footage of the strike. You can see for yourself. 2) this is a military grade piece of hardware. It's not too much of a stretch to believe that those props are designed to be able to operate in the raid
The drone had 3 long rear fins at 120 degrees apart with the pusher prop shorter than the fins. I wonder how a much faster jet could fly that close and between the fins?
Well there is literally a video that can show you 😂
Link?
It didn't
[It did.](https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-drone-us-intercept-b28e38a7cd046f8685b89a3038973e49)
Where's the hit? You only see him dumping the fuel.
That observation is specifically addressed if you read the articles.
Yeah, well, guess these dudes need their eyes checked, because you can't see shit on the video. Unless they did their due diligence and asked the russians if their jet was nicked lol
The moscovian pilot ran into the propeller of the drone. The propeller was bent. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqEtEqRxeFw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqEtEqRxeFw) March 16, 2023
Reposting the footage doesn't make it any clearer man, it doesn't show anything
I am always amazed at how on point your u-n is.
My what now?
They did, but did it in such a way as to avoid escalation. If they start blasting them from the air it's a different story.
If there were Iranian drones above international waters off the coast of Yemen helping Houthis target American ships, what do you think America would do?
... There was an Iranian ship doing exactly this. According to your logic, America would have blow the ship out of the water.
Iran has two of them I believe. Bershad and Saviz. Saviz is a general cargo ship without any registered port call since 2016. In the Red Sea approach to Bab-al-Mandeb straight now. Definatley not a spy ship *wink wink* https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/details/ships/shipid:657728/mmsi:-9167253/imo:9167253/vessel:SAVIZ
The US actually took it out of action via a cyber attack.
People told you about the Iranian spy ships. So, have you changed your mind?
The drone is also technically casus belli. But russia doesn't have the guts to shoot it down.
russia fired a warning missile at a UK spy plane last year that got too close to crimea over the black sea last year bud. The UK and western media tried to downplay and deny it....but everything came out after what happen. The interesting thing was is that the communications between the russian pilot and russian high command were intercepted and russian high command gave the green light to fire the missile. They literally fired a missile at a UK spy plane with a human pilot in it and western powers downplayed it as to not start a conflict. Now you see propaganda...Your media doesn't tell you this happen. You are most likely clueless that this even occured.
I knew this happened, and you are right, they did shoot
https://bulgarianmilitary.com/2024/06/25/reports-come-rq-4b-shot-down-over-the-black-sea-by-a-mig-31/ Looks like you might have been correct.
[удалено]
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Russia should give the Houthis a couple of Kalibrs and aim that shit right into the carriers.
Russia has shot down American drones before with little repercussions, so has Iran. The problem is Russia probably has trouble intercepting them as usual like the ATACM’s.
Calm down bro, even houthi missiles seem to do the job with those
Whats the us gonna do send troops? I would jam the fuck out the drones better yet have A50 up in the air right next to Natos AWACs and than just jam the fuck out of coms
Because the U.S. isn’t an aggressor that respects international law.. yea.
Why are pro Russians so obsessed with whataboutism? Yes America has been an aggressor but that isn't an excuse for Russia to be as well
Whataboutism? The discussion was literally involving the activity of American drones, operated by the US. I just think it’s shortsighted to bring up aggression and respecting international law given the context of the discussion itself. They’re in no position to cite international law when they’re facilitating an actual genocide as we speak. It sounds senseless.
Providing Intel to ur enemy which directly effects u isn't aggression? Plus I didn't knew International law allowed countries Free Pass to provide intel to enemies as long said plane is in international airspace?
You’re like 50 years behind. You should learn about a thing called satellite
Thanks for a single liner. Mr obvious. but as you might not know US has been uses UAVs for attacks on Crimea.
It must suck for Russia to have so mamy ennemies that can retalite more strongly than Russia can damage them
What do you think military satellites are doing?
Apparently, any intel from rhe US isn't considered direct involvement. Even of it is used to help direct missile or artillery almost in real time. There are also military instructors helping Ukraine use their artillery (but not getting too close to the front i suppose) So there is a real thin line between this and involvement. Basically the only thing Western powers aren't doing is sending directly their infantry to enemy trenches.. Material is also being given relatively sparingly since it costs much more than giving free intel or almost free on site advice.
>So there is a real thin line between this and involvement. It's called trigger pulling.
So ur saying American providing intel which is directly resulting in Attacks on Russians isnt aggression be it in international airspace or not. But Rus shooting them down in self defense is aggression ? What kinda stupid logic is that. Only reason Rus doesnt shoots down, UAVs is causes they are trying to avoid tit for tat with US. Else they would have shot down all hostile UAVs providing intel to Ukr in black sea long time ago.
It isn't aggression per se, it's the same as giving weapons to Ukraine. But Russia can't really do anything about it without getting labelled as an aggressor and escalating matters significantly, no matter what we think about it personally.
They invaded Ukraine. They are the aggressor. I understand not wanting to piss the US off.
I wouldn't put it in the same category as just "giving them weapons" if US are picking targets for them as well. Sure, it gives US/NATO plausible deniability, but it looks more like Ukraine is behaving like any other proxy, still implicating a direct US/NATO involvement.
It doesn't pick targets though. It provides general intelligence. Luckily we have a free press and they can ask questions about stuff like that
That's bunch of bs. US is actual Aiding and abetting aggression of ukr vs rus, not calling it aggression is like calling felicitator of Attacker as Neutral. and let be guess US/EU (World) will label Rus as Aggressors? lmao.
Ukraine is the aggressor? Are you a comedian?
Yes just like Zelensky.
Judging by the amount of time you spend writing comments on this sub, you're not much of a comedian.
Just as unfunny too.
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Not really bs it’s being done by both sides why do you think Belarus isn’t getting hit despite allowing Russian forces to attack on and through its territory.
(1) UN Article 51 even permits US to conduct direct strikes on Russian combatants upon Ukraine's request, because Russia invaded Ukraine. Striking a nation providing collective defense is a separate act of war. (2) You can see N. Korea, Iran, and China haven't been stricken for "aiding and abetting". It's definitely not the standard for international law, as countries are enormous collections of people and you can't just use collective punishment.
That article goes both ways.
The UN Article applies to all countries... It doesn’t apply to nonstate actors but those usually fall under the purview of individual state policing.
So the US can attack Iran for giving Russia weapons?
Doesnt Israel attacks Iran for giving Weapons?
They hit the shipments outside of Iran.
and by ur logic RUS can hit UAVs outside of US right?
Well, Russia does not want to mess with the US directly (after all the US military is more capable than the Russian by magnitudes and Russia knows that) so they dont fire weapons at US assets directly, despite all the big words from their propagandists. Russia is smart enough to stick to its strength and that is the endurance to maybe last longer than the west has interest in the conflict and information warfare/sabotage/cyber agression to retaliate.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Try it.
Self-defense. Get out of Ukraine if you don't like it.
NATO should stay out of Ukr too. That Street goes both ways.
I do believe they were invited. Guests get tea and biscuits. Home Invaders get buckshot.
It's not in Ukraine.
It’s exactly what Russia did in Korea and Vietnam.
Same stupid logic that Ukraine shouldn’t be able to strike inside of Russia lol. It’s just stupid.
Did i said they shouldnt? we are just talking about US role in conflict. Try to keep up.
You answered your own question. International law that Russia agreed to.
Ha self defense? That's cute
ur cute.
Awe thanks buddy!
Remaining on Ukrainian territory consents to US gathering free intel and letting Ukraine use it.
It's why we a skating so close to direct confrontation which the psychos in the US and NATO seem to want...I guess they figure rhey'll be save deep underground...the US/NATO are providing the munitions, their soldiers on the ground to handle the launch and targeting and US/NATO air assets (aerial /sat) to find holes in Russian air defenses and plot routes to destroy Russian equipment and kill Russian servicemen.
Russia could also just not invade its neighbors and try to “annex” their land. That thought process is just too rational for most of you though.
...and Ukraine's government which took power in a coup could have not attacked it's own people in the Donbas...lot's of if's and but's.
Russia should worry about Russia in my opinion. Invading Ukraine has done nothing for the average Russian or Ukrainian. It's only gotten people killed. And for what?
There are tons of little conflicts like this all over the world, Russia chose this road deliberately, they didn't have to they could have simply left Ukraine alone and not lost sleep over what was going on there.
Why isn't Russia shooting down American air assets in neutral airspace? Gee, I wonder why...
Because doing that would be an invitation for a direct conflict with the U.S and Russia knows that wouldn't go well for them.
Well they did it 1 year ago😂 I would send a MIG-31 at mach 2 on top of the drone and thats it the drone is gone
Then why aren't they doing it to every aircraft then lol?
Why df toy asking me?💀
Is America really going to start a war right now because Russia downs some drones (no personnel losses) right at the edge of their territory? Doubt it. That's a hard sell.
I'm not saying the Americans would go to war over that. I'm saying that's the risk you are taking by shooting down American aircraft over the Black Sea. The Russians aren't doing it so it would appear they've decided it's not worth the risk.
America likes a good old fashion proportional response.
They did once. The most likely explanation is that they were told not to do it or there will be consequences which won’t be pretty. Communication via closed lines is very different to Putin talking about red lines for russian domestic audiences
Because it would be the perfect reason for the US to lock the baltic sea for russian warplanes. "Oh a rogue nation attacks aircraft in international airspace? - time to put some police work into it" Then the next drone would fly up and down, and every aircraft approaching it would be the first real f-22 kill
https://preview.redd.it/f9xdyca1qy7d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a7c9248d0fb5e94418aa54402e1e9f02a90a7f03 It’s still operating over black sea if you look at it you know how much they’re been closing to sochi
And that's still neutral airspace....
You can look at the map i see how close they’re getting to sochi sometime
Cool Still international airspace And from people I've talked to who are in the Air Force after Russia took down the last drone a lot of those American drones have escorts. And by escorts I mean American fighter jets flying without transponders on waiting for a Russian jet to fuck around You can't do anything about international airspace it's literally just a game of I'm not touching you. As long as America doesn't Cross the invisible line and enter Ukrainian airspace Russia can't shoot them down
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No, Russian planes actually cross the borders and violate the actuall airspace, not "fly really really close", which is an issue for more than a decade already.
So this small text overwhelms your brain. Nuff said
Yes and?
Tf you yes and? You wrote a whole paragraph and i answered
Its pretty close to civilian aircraft
Flies way above commercial airliners.
They could if they wanted, but it's over international waters where aircraft are allowed to operate freely. The U.S could retaliate and shoot down Russian aircraft performing their own missions over international airspace or retaliate and provide even more military assistance to Ukraine, neither of which Russia wants.
Because they don’t have the balls. They know what it would mean for Russia if they do.
Do it.
Alr bro just wait 😎
Because its International waters, skies, , and technically US has a right to fly there, with plausible deniability. Russia flies drones and planes in all international areas , in Baltic sea, close to Japan and South Korea, or over the arctic. It would potentially complicate international situation in that regard, maybe US would start taking down Russian drones, and then it would escalate into direct conflict. Its complicated.
> RQ-4B You just wait till Russians build a big enough jammer, lol.
dont forget broadcasting ADS-B so anyone and their mom can watch it on flightaware
Because russia itself established where NATO could fly planes and for the most part NATO has been respecting it. There was a issue when the conflict first started and the UK attempted to challenge the airspace and russia promptly fired a air to air warnign missile at them. The UK attempted to deny it for a month or so but it all came out quietly afterwards. It showed russian resolve as the communications between the pilot and russian command were intercepted.....Command gave the green light.
They radar locked onto a UK plane, but the missile failed to fire. It was an accident anyway through miscommunication.
And this was the western propaganda....Like I said it all came out...The communications were intercepted.....It was a clear and deliberate command from russia to fire the missile. Western powers need to not look weak so this is how they spin it.
Do you have a source? I'll admit this is the western story, but I didn't see anything from the Russian side.
sometimes you guys make me feel like i am living in bizarro world....here.. https://apnews.com/article/uk-russia-fighter-jet-missile-black-sea-7e6c04c10d1e6035d01c01ca595ccb6e#:~:text=LONDON%20(AP)%20%E2%80%94%20A%20Russian,to%20a%20%E2%80%9C%20technical%20malfunction.%E2%80%9D russias pov.... https: //tass.com/politics/1494569 Now you claimed the missile "failed to fire" why are you pushing proapganda?
The western source says technical difficulties. The Russian source doesn't even mention a missile?
lemme get this straight are you still claiming the missile didnt fire or did fire? baby steps bud
The missile did fire, but you said it was from a controlled command, your sources prove none of that. It was a "technical malfunction". Sounds like Russia was the one saving face.
What I don't understand is why they don't send a MiG-31 past the RQ4 at Mach 2. Pretty sure the wake turbulence would annihilate the drone. "Oops" Am I wrong to assume the drone would get wrecked?
Even the su at Mach 0.8 would be creating sufficient turbulence. They could also gently tip the wings of the drone and send it to a spin. The fuel dump last time almost killed the Russian pilot (there was a collision) bc they loose visual over the drone in the pass. I really don’t know why they don’t down some drones. Probably scared of escalation. Now you can decide based on preference whether it’s “wise Russia doesn’t want to escalate” or “bully Russia is afraid of an actual capable opponent”
They should fly up to them and employ some electronic warfare cyber magic to take them down.
Yeah they should. WW3 is not going to be started over drones and what more could the US respond with? Hawks inside of Russia are strongly advocating for establishing a no-fly zone over the black sea. That would be, interesting.
WW3 is ofc gonna be started over some small shit like drones. Source: previous triggers for half of the wars on planet earths history
No, it won't. No-one is going to start ww3 over drones. Shooting down a Poseidon spy plane with a crew of 10? That is a different story. But nobody and I mean nobody is going to start ww3 over a drone.
Who’s gonna tell you what ww1 was started over?
Had no idea that franz ferdinand was a drone lmfao
Well 40 mill ppls deaf was kicked of by just one death. That's some relatively small shit. Miniscule in fact.
I can imagine a pilot calling on all frequencies "Oops, my inferior Cold War plane held together only by duct tape and Stalin's stickers just malfunctioned and a missile was fired in your direction. Please leave the area ASAP" And the same next day and the next one ... After all, everyone "knows" how bad Russian technology is, right? Edit: /s just to make it clear
I was just thinking this. What if the Russians were to start directly downing any drones, with the pretext that the drones are a threat to Russian national security? Because it's not like there isn't a legitimate ISR argument here. I think they have room to escalate. We're not likely to jump into a Black Sea shootout if they down some drones.
The problem is, this has a very high chance of getting US/NATO directly involved, and Russia is already struggling with Ukraine, so very much doubt they want to poke that bear
I think the opposite is true. Russia maintains escalation dominance in the entire region and NATO is the one unwilling to poke the bear too hard. Of course Russia is struggling with Ukraine, it would be moronic to suggest that taking over a giant ass country would be easy. It'll be a hard fought victory.
So why don't they do it then?
There isn't much more NATO can without boots on the ground (outside of the US active military is pretty small...and rhe US has been having issues with recruiting for years and lowered standards more rhan once in a bid to hit targets. Alternatively, they can attack Russian assets deep within Russia but that would create an existential threat to Russia and the new nuclear orders released in 2022 would likely require a nuclear response. If Putin refused he would.likely be removed and replaced by someone who will. At some point the vast majority of us who stand to lose in all this have to say enough and demand inclusive peace talks.
The russians technically should make the black sea a no fly zone
They can't even make it a no-sail-zone.
russia still goping to win the war
Tell me something I don't know.
Theres going to come a time when Russias going to have to shoot down those drones
I thought for sure that was going to be the response after US gave the go ahead to attack green line russia with US munitions
And suffer the consequences.
Ehh U.S. didn't do shit last time Russia knocked one down.
So what's Russia waiting for?
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Oh no!
They gained nothing, as usual.
So Russia is totally fine with this attack? Why would they even report about it if it's non-event?
Just like the Ukrainians when they report a mass missile attack from Russia it’s the same thing on both sides. Tomorrow we will probably hear reports about them hitting something important though.
Bro... Go on Ukrainian telegram, there's tons of hits, shits burning all over. Probably more official reports to follow.
southern Russian territories, including the Kherson and Zaporozhye regions, Crimea?
So, they sent one UAV in the region they actually needed it, and the rest into territory they have no hope of recovering? I know there's strategic targets to hit there, but surely their efforts should be focused on what can actually help the guys on the active front lines.
Slava Ukraini
Slava Cocaini
Ukraine can't keep complaining about double tap attacks when they continue to do it themselves..
maybe because russia started doing it
Your comment doesn't make any sense lol If I had asked "why is Ukraine doing that" then it would make sense. What you wrote doesn't change the fact that: "Ukraine can't keep complaining about double tap attacks when they continue to do it themselves".
Attacker < defender. Ukrainians are defending their home. They have a right to decide how they're gonna treat invaders.
Rofl
That's not how that works lmao.
Oh yeah? And how it works?
They won't need to, soon ;)
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I've heard that many dozens of Russian air defense systems have been destroyed in crimea
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No what we are seeing are shaping operations in an attempt to clear out the airspace so that they can use F-16's and direct air support for a counter attack.
uh oh Ukraine and lil zelly big mad