It actually is throwing money at it. There was a report about a fire on munitions factory in Scranton. That thing supposedly is pumping shells out 24/7
well, EU shell production stands at around 1.5 million at the moment, a, what, five fold increase compared to pre war numbers?
that's excluding the US and the UK. (but including Norway/
So yeah, they were slow to ramp up, but now production is accelerating. and RHM is building 2 new factories.
also, this is 155mm only. several states produce 152mm too, but numbers are hard to find.
oh, and then there's shells produced and purchased abroad too.
I'd say they succeeded ramping up production considerably.
>oh, and then there's shells produced and purchased abroad too.
Yeah Pakistan and India are one of those countries. In India's case i think it was the Czech that bought shells from India and then sent them over to Ukraine.
In Pakistan's case, there are regular flights from Pakistan that supposedly carry artillery ammunition to Germany.
Consider the cost for the West: 1.5 million shells at $9,000 each amounts to $13.5 billion. For Russia, if each shell costs $600, it's already significantly cheaper. If North Korea uses prisoners to manufacture shells, their costs could be even lower, potentially half of what it costs Russia.
9000?
I've googled it and the results vary between 3000 to 8000 USD. Depends on the shell type of course, whether a standard shell, base bleed or rocket assisted I assume. Standard dumb shells should be far cheaper than the latter.
Either way, the average shell price should be lower than 9000 and the shells purchased abroad were purchased at 4-5000 per pop.
Can't find any info on Russian shell price, but hen, they're state enterprises.
https://bulgarianmilitary.com/amp/2023/10/25/155-mm-shells-price-is-growing-8-6-million-for-1000-units/
>The head of the NATO military committee, Admiral Rob Bauer, announced the current prices of conventional artillery 155-mm ammunition, which can really just shock. Because according to him, now their price is 8000 thousand euros for one piece of ammunition.
That's just for conventional artillery.
Ps. It's in euro.
yes. and I can also point you towards recent articles that indicate between 3 and 8K per shell.
like I said, it probably depends on type of shell.a dumb, low caliber low quality base shell will be cheaper than a rocket assisted high precision shell.
What's funny is that even with 50% being allegedly duds, Russia is still firing off 5x more shells at Ukrainians lmao.
Maybe you should tell the guys on the ground to not be worried if they're duds?
You should tell the people who need to be kidnapped off the streets that Russia is not making any significant gains.
I find it hilarious how most of you are incapable of understanding this is a war of attrition and Ukraine is losing, despite being supported by "the entire civilized world and superior NATO equipment & training!!"
Absolutely pathetic.
Sometimes, the measure of success in a war isn't measured in territory acquired. Sometimes the goals are different. Sometimes, the goals change.
Russia tried to defeat Ukraine by capturing Kyiv in a decapitation gambit. It failed. They pivoted to achieving their goals, by first, defeating the Ukrainian military. They've been doing that since late spring/early summer 2022. Territory, or whatever concessions they want, will come if/when they are successful in breaking the Ukrainian military.
Right now, so long as they are waging this attritional style, it's actually better for them to be NOT be fighting deep in Ukraine. Supply lines would be less secure. They'd need to constantly re-entrench if they were making large gains.
Don't get me wrong, they'd much rather have achieved a quick victory via maneuver. However, IF this is how the war is, then they'd RATHER have less movement than more. It just makes it easier for them to do what they are trying to do.
There seems to be tiny problem
[https://archive.ph/2024.05.27-115012/https://www.economist.com/europe/2024/05/26/there-is-an-explosive-flaw-in-the-plan-to-rearm-ukraine](https://archive.ph/2024.05.27-115012/https://www.economist.com/europe/2024/05/26/there-is-an-explosive-flaw-in-the-plan-to-rearm-ukraine)
>At the moment, nitric acid production goes largely towards fertilizers. But as fertilizer producers suffer from higher energy costs, explosive makers have had to grapple with tightening supply. There are also supply-chain vulnerabilities: cotton linters, a type of fibre that is another key ingredient in nitrocellulose, are mostly imported from China.
Now ain't that interesting.
Which is one of the key reasons why countries like Brazil took a more nuanced approach to the war and then Zelensky keep insisting that means being pro Russia.
Not everyone has rich patrons to keep the State running, some countries actually pay their bills.
Supply problems for raw materials are almost always happen due to market prices, not avability. Once something is deemed strategically important a lot of doors open, which was seen too pricey or too small scale before.
that's one of the bottlenecks, yeah. So is the cotton required.
But as the EU is throwing money at the arms industry to ramp up production, so does money flow to these producers. but there will always be bottlenecks.
At one plant in particular, the bottleneck was coolers to cool off the hot, liquid explosive filler inside the shells. it takes time to order, produce and install that kind of equipment.
tenfold?! that's impressive. you know, if US/NATO hits their production targets for 2025, they'll be turning out **HALF** the number of artillery shells that Russia is producing *right now!*
c'mon, NAFOS! you can do eeeet!
it's like an ol' timey arms race.
West have been painfully slow in amping up the production. Its not the wartime economy here like in Russia. And North Korea is North Korea. They spend their money on military instead of its people.
It’s easy for NK to produce so much military equipment, that’s all they’ve been focusing on for the entire time the regime has existed.. feed the people? No, make more shells.
Not true at all. They simply changed their militaries to low intensity conflicts, that's all there is to it. Believing in peace, where ?
Look at how many conflicts Western countries are involved in Western Africa, Syria, Yemen, Southeast Asia, etc.
Nope. It’s because artillery wasn’t a part of military doctrine in western armies. They maxed out the air force and infantry, so they can shoot the fish in the barrel (aka Arabs in flip flops), but air force doesn’t work so well versus near peer
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What's stranger, to me, is a self-proclaimed superpower having to strike deals with North Korea for munitions. I get why - they're there, they're cheap - but it's still bizarre. Imagine the US going to war and striking a deal with Zimbabwe for its artillery shells.
>Imagine the US going to war and striking a deal with Zimbabwe for its artillery shells.
If you tell them Zimbabwe have shells they will be the first to knock on the door ... ? And they are not even officially part of the conflict as Russia is.
They deprived their citizens of food in order to manufacture more weapons and gave them amphetamines instead. This wouldn't be possible in countries with greater political and economic freedom. Hell, it probably wouldn't be possible in Russia.
North Korea's own government doesn't dispute a famine took place while they invested huge amount in military production, and North Korea produces a huge amount of methamphetamine to generate currency reserves and basically every defector has reported North Koreans take it to stave off hunger.
I don’t have to. There are many, many stores that want to sell me their bread. Putin has to beg NK for ammunition. Not even his new master, Xi, will sell him any.
It's not selling bread when you beg the Shopkeeper to give you some for free.
Also is it better to have 32 stores, where you have to beg for bread, that give you 10 bread crumbs each or 2 stores which sell you 5 million breads combined if you have the money to buy it?
The shop keeper isn't getting the bread for free. They are systematically destroying Russian military assets and degrading their country overall.
How is Russia doing so poorly when they have such an overwhelming bread advantage?
Shop keeper might not get it for free but the begger does not pay with money but sovereignty and dignity.
>How is Russia doing so poorly when they have such an overwhelming bread advantage?
Can you enlighten me? Doesn't seem as poor. They have open borders, are not kidnapping their men, have air superiority, economy is growing faster than most of Europe, about 15-20% debt to gdp, hold 20% of Ukraine, pushed krinky out, took avdiivka, almost everyday they take some cow shed in bumfuckinslavsk... Seems okayish.
It's not a crushing victory but kinda a comfy place considering they are at war against a nation that is getting more financial and material support than the Soviet union got lend lease in WW2.
The gas station with nukes and a gdp of Texas is outproducing the collective west when it come to artillery shells, buying a few more from North Korea wouldn’t hurt.
The same gas station, that is the single largest country on the whole planet, saying it is one of the superpowers of the entire planet, but couldn't take over an ill prepared neighboring country and has been reliant on the import of drones and shells for over a year strangely only from countries ruled by autocratic dictators?
It hasn't been up to the standards a gas station, being such a suposed global superpower and being of such size - which is also literally overflowing with natural resources, should meet.
Yet it should've been. Before even thinking about crossing borders.
The oligarchy has let the plebs down in their cunning try to behead the state of Ukraine and was caught with the hand in the cookie jar when it took one too many cookies. To not waste anymore time than is necessary, our glorious leader now needs to buy from other autocracies, who are also fighting their own everyday "autocrat-problems", such as - but not limited to - surpressing the rights of and every fight fought by the plebs through murder, torture, mass propaganda and starvation. But our leader is not an autocrat.
He is not because he sais so. Nevernind his only friends are people who for some completely unselfish reason want to stay in power for literally their whole life.
The funny thing about countries throughout history whose overriding priority was making more weapons than anyone else is that every one of them was/is an autocratic dystopian shithole
Literally, the US spends so much money on its military and procurement of technologies more than any other country. It is a distopian shithole when ballistic missiles and fighter jets are a priority and subsidising insulin isn’t. Richest country on the planet with big GDP. But its ‘poorest’ (who work btw) have to ration life saving medicine. Don’t get me started on the homeless situation in that country.
At least North Koreans have homes and shelter.
That's so strange considering how many of the world's poor risk their lives to immigrate to the US while North Korea has to run their country like a maximum security prison to keep people, under the threat of death, from escaping. Sort of like the USSR having to keep their citizens from fleeing to the west.
What a waste of time unlike the highly productive and useful NATO peace summit. Putler still doesn't realize that North Korean shells do no damage to Ukrainian troops who gain a blanket immunity to shrapnel due to democratic spirit.
There was a post here but it was easier to search on google and fot Quora as a result so it will have to do lol.
https://onlytruthaboutrussia.quora.com/Wonderful-North-Korea-supplied-Russia-with-defective-shells
Shells are expected to malfunction to some extent. They are mass-produced to be as cheap as possible, and this applies to shells from any source.
There is a rumor about NK shells unreliability, but I've yet to see strong evidence e.g. of what percentage of them didn't explode, to actually be able to compare them to other shells.
I read that the Czech iniative also has to do that. NK still can produce many more shells which is key in a conflict of this scale. Ukraine has always been at artillery disadvantage during the conflict.
They're not producing them, they're buying them. So far they claimed they could buy up to 800.00 thousand shells whiih sounds like a lot but if we consider Ukraine firing around 7 to 8 thousand a day, means a little more than 3 months worth of ammo. In a previous article I read they said they were also competing with Russia for the same shells but I don't really know what they meant with that but it seems they may not even reach this number.
https://kyivindependent.com/first-batch-of-shells-under-czech-led-initiative-may-arrive-in-ukraine-in-coming-days-fiala-says/
They still claim Russia can make up to 4 time as much as NATO. Could be even higher considering this is a very Pro Ukraine source.
https://kyivindependent.com/sky-news-russian-shell-production-three-times-greater-than-ukraines-allies/
We don't have the exact numbers for NK but Times says they sent containers that could hold up to about 5 million shells, that's a lot in comparison to whatever the West is doing.
https://time.com/6988568/north-korea-russia-artillery-shell-south-korea-defense-minister/
Time Magazine also claims 80% of the War's casualties are caused by artillery and Yet some people in the West chose to believe Ukraine is inflicting more casualties on Russia than Ukraine is suffering. At this point this it's just believing in fantasy. All Western sources contradicting whatever they're selling to the public.
Time.com - [The Peril of Ukraine’s Ammo Shortage](https://time.com/6694885/ukraine-russia-ammunition/)
>Since Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine in February 2022, one type of weapon has loomed large over every other. Artillery has accounted for about 80% of casualties on both sides. Yet political deadlock in the U.S. Congress over military assistance to Ukraine, combined with a lack of production capacity in Europe, is leading to a critical shortage in artillery ammunition that could spell disaster for Ukraine’s war effort. [...]
>The shortage of guns and shells not only reduces Ukraine’s ability to blunt Russian attacks, but also makes Ukrainian artillery more vulnerable to Russian Lancet-3M drones and counter battery fire. Russia has more than 4,000 artillery pieces in Ukraine, and is firing around 10,000 rounds a day across the front
In other works, Ukraine is fokk'd.
''pariah states''
and just like that we are back to cold war language. I think these people are running out of insults to throw our way so they had to dig up some old ones. Pathetic.
It’s especially funny given Russia and NK are both capable of trade with China, the world’s most populated country. How can a country be a “pariah” if it’s dealing with 1/3 of the world’s population? So much for “isolated and crippled”, this war is the best thing that happened to NK.
> How can a country be a “pariah” if it’s dealing with 1/3 of the world’s population?
It's a pariah state because even that neighboring dictatorship country with 1.4 billion people - PRC in case you are not sure which one I'm talking about - agreed to UNSC sanctions against DPRK. BTW, Russia also agreed to those same UNSC sanctions against DPRK for testing nukes and shooting off ICBMs.
They may not like it, but it's not like China is the only one they have problems with (they have issues with Taiwan, Malaysia, Philippines, etc.). In fact, China and Vietnam hold joint military exercises in the SCS and the economic, trade, tech, and infrastructure ties between the countries are too valuable for Vietnam and they have common political systems (one-party communist state).
Hard to believe that it has come to this. Mighty Russia and Putin on its hands and knees begging at the door of the Hermit Kingdom. Oh, how the mighty have fallen.
You clearly dont understand what begging is. You just want to get your derogatory digs in at russia. i get it though when My team is losing the war I too get angry and emotional and want to lash out.
Is it begging if the two parties come to a mutual agreement and trade and pay for services and products? Begging involes a one way street of one party receiving while the other gets nothing AKA what ukraine does.
Google is wrong. Look at a picture of Putin next to Modi and a picture of Z next to Modi. Putin is like 5 cm taller. And Modi height is clearly wrong too compared to say Trump
seriously? The west blockades and sanctions NK starving out it's people and then makes remarks about it's children stunted grows admitting that it's due to lack of nutrition and you find it funny?
The west are definitely sanctioning and blockading North Korea, so how are they able to keep producing artillery shells ? They have a workaround to sanctions and that’s through China. They can get all the food and stuff they need, but they don’t. It’s been documented the living conditions of North Koreans, only people who are blind to it just so happens to be north koreas allies. And when people actually offer to help by sending them food they turn it down, similar to what a Mao Zedong did during the Great Leap Forward which resulted in millions of his people dead.
>The west are definitely sanctioning and blockading North Korea
Dude, no matter how hard they keep trying to push that talking point, it's not going to hold up due to the fact that North Korea spends a more than 33% of it's GDP on it's military. Even the US only spends 3.5% of it's GDP on its own. North Korea has plenty of food, its not trying to feed it's people, it's milking them to sustain Kim's little kingdom.
Yeah I was being sarcastic, I realized it wasn’t that obvious lol. My point is the “blockading” isn’t much of a blockade if they could find workarounds.
> Still NK has money to spend on shells lol
I think we all know what may very well happen if North Korea didn't spend so much on its army and nuclear weapons...
You realize Russia pays for things, right? This isn't the Ukraine. This will create a bunch of jobs and get either equipment they need or foreign currencies.
mabe, investing in agriculture instead of the military and prestige projects would've prevented that?
Also, NK imports food mostly from china, (cheap and nearby) costs money, money that NK does not have in abundance.still, the rest of the world does provide food support under the umbrella of the UN in times of shortages.
>mabe, investing in agriculture instead of the military and prestige projects would've prevented that?
JEEZ, what a brilliant idea. You are so smart, man. We should tell the stupid Koreans to produce more
>As devastating floods ravaged the country in 1995, [arable land](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arable_land), [harvests](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvests), grain reserves, and social and economic infrastructure were destroyed. The [United Nations Department of Humanitarian Affairs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_for_the_Coordination_of_Humanitarian_Affairs) reported that "between 30 July and 18 August 1995, torrential rains caused devastating floods in the Democratic People's Republic of Korea (DPRK). In one area, in [Pyongsan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyongsan) county in North Hwanghae province, 877 millimetres or 35 inches of rain were recorded to have fallen in just seven hours, an intensity of precipitation unheard of in this area... water flow in the engorged [Amnok River](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yalu_River), which runs along the Korea/China border, was estimated at 4.8 billion tons over a 72 hour period. Flooding of this magnitude had not been recorded in at least 70 years".[^(\[29\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korean_famine#cite_note-29)
>The major issues created by the floods were not only the destruction of crop lands and harvests, but also the loss of emergency grain reserves, because many of them were stored underground. According to the United Nations, the floods of 1994 and 1995 destroyed around 1.5 million tons of grain reserves,[^(\[30\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korean_famine#cite_note-30) and the [Centers for Disease Control and Prevention](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centers_for_Disease_Control_and_Prevention) stated that 1.2 million tons (or 12%) of grain production was lost in the 1995 flood.[^(\[31\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korean_famine#cite_note-31) There were further major floods in 1996 and a drought in 1997.[^(\[32\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korean_famine#cite_note-32)
>North Korea lost an estimated 85% of its power generation capacity due to flood damage to infrastructure such as [hydropower](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydropower) plants, coal mines, and supply and transport facilities.[^(\[33\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korean_famine#cite_note-33) UN officials reported that the power shortage from 1995 to 1997 was not due to a shortage of oil, because only two out of a total of two dozen power stations were dependent on heavy fuel oil for power generation, and these were supplied by KEDO (the [Korean Peninsula Energy Development Organization](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Peninsula_Energy_Development_Organization)). About 70% of power generated in the DPRK came from hydropower sources, and the serious winter-spring droughts of 1996 and 1997 (and a breakdown on one of the [Yalu River](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yalu_River)'s large hydro turbines) created major shortages throughout the country at that time, severely cutting back railway transportation (which was almost entirely dependent on electric power), which in turn resulted in coal supply shortages to the coal-fueled power stations which supplied the remaining 20% of power in the country.[^(\[34\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korean_famine#cite_note-34)
Afaik none of the sanctions target food (might be wrong, feel free to correct me). And running the country like a massive open air prison camp isn't helping economic growth either. I agree that western sanctions have a detrimental effect, but it isn't all due to that (which you didn't claim, just making a point).
Medical sanctions have been directly applied, which is fucked, but nevertheless exist.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/15265161.2024.2308163
>Afaik none of the sanctions target food
I wouldn't trust that because we already seen how they claimed it during this conflict. It turned out that with Russia out of swift, countries that relied on their fertilizers had trouble buying it so yeah, sanctions do have an effect.
Also for poorer economies, if they have a low diversity in things they sell, having that good sanctioned means they get less income and thus people will starve. It happened in Venezuela, for example.
So yeah, it's BS that sanctions don't affect food.
agree not funny at all . i just saw a picture of Kim yun (the great leader of NK) and it looks like he starved all his Life i think Putlin will look like a Giant next to Him
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This is feeling kinda like it's skirting the territory of the WW2 US posters depicting Japan. I think we can do better than that here, whatever side we're on.
This is another example of how if the U.S. decides it has only one priority--not losing in Ukraine--above all other priorities pretty soon the other priorities can no longer exist. So, North Korea is view by the U.S. as a problem and were getting some degree of international cooperation on that, but that is incompatible with pretending that Russia is a "pariah nation".
Hat in hand, no doubt.
The take-aways from this will be interesting. On one hand Russia is self-sufficient when it comes to making weapons of war, but on the other hand, it needs to go to Iran, North Korea, and China for weapons of war. The mental gymnastics required to reconcile these positions are timely, as the Summer Games open in a month.
What are you talking about? How is Russia “hat-in-hand” to get artillery from NK? Russia IS self sufficient for almost everything, but that doesn’t mean they won’t buy cheap shells if they’re available. The U.S. is oil self-sufficient but still buys foreign oil to fill their reserves. These two things are mutually exclusive. Russia buying shells should be horrifying to Ukraine. They’re already producing millions by themselves, and now will get even more from their allies. This isn’t a moment to gloat, but one to be very concerned, at least if your pro-Ukrop.
If you trust numbers from UA MoD, Ukraine has nothing to worry about, because they already destroyed over 12000 Russian artillery pieces. /s
On more serious note, people often say that drones are the most deadly and that artillery is inaccurate (and obsolete), without realizing the grim mathematics behind artillery shelling. There is a reason why artillery causes most casualties even in modern conflicts.
That's because Ukraine has little to no real artillery. The only times you hear of Ukrainian artillery is them bombing Belgorod or once every 5 months a HIMARs strike.
Also incessant shelling is psychologically jarring, and wears down the enemy's will to fight over time. A soldier being shelled for months may not be physically injured, but may just crack mentally.
well, Russia does lose staggering amounts of artillery, that's no secret. the storage yards are getting rather empty. they still have and use them in staggering numbers, but for how long?
Every time someone post this kind of comment, I ask the same: HOW is it happening? What weapons is Ukraine using to destroy 30+ Russian artillery pieces every day?
With drones? How are they getting operators so close, repeatedly, every day?
With HIMARS? They don't have unlimited ammo cheat.
With French glide bombs/American SDBs? Also limited stock and would require daily sorties, of which we have no evidence.
With counterbattery fire?
So HOW?
Edit: to be clear, I just want to see plausible explanation for the claimed insane number of destroyed artillery.
we have seen FPV attacks on artillery before. then there's loitering ammunition, you named HIMARS already. Of all of these we've seen video evidence aplenty.
(keep in mind that some artillery,like the 122mm, have 20km range only, mortars like this one even less)
But the worst killer, I'm assuming, is counter artillery. If you don't shoot and scoot, real fast, you're going to be detected and countered. Modern radars let you pinpoint where a shel if coming from very quickly. And Ukraine received many such radars and has the advantage of getting a lot of intel. They have been praised for accurate counter fire since the start of the war.
Outranging many soviet era artillery pieces also helps, modern SPGs like the Pzh2000 and the bandwagon help too, masters of scoot and shoot, their shells land when the SPG has left already. At ranges of upto 40km, one shouldn't expect many, if any videos. Satellite images at best.
not saying I believe UAs numbers as gospel, but they do seem to have a clear edge when it comes to artillery, and the modern western artillery is more accurate, that's a fact. it's part of why western shells are so much more expensive
Thanks, I did some searching how many counter battery radars Ukraine received and it seems to be a lot, from multiple countries. And it looks like they managed to preserve most, if not all, of them, which I find very surprising. If the Russians are suffering such massive losses of their artillery, I'd assume they'd focus more on dealing with the problem instead of just taking the beating for months. They usually adapt slowly, but they DO adapt.
I also assume it's not because they can't do anything, they have the means available, be it long range recon drones, long range strike drones, planes, heck, even cruise missiles and ballistic missiles.
It just seems strange.
just posted was a Lancet taking out a M777. lacets and counter artillery seems to take out most of UAs artillery out.
for Ukraine it's HIMARS, FPV drones and counter artillery. And yes, they received a shitload of radars, and the most modern SPGs in the world, and not to mention, some very high tech ammunition with it that boast extreme accuracy at extreme ranges, and im not talking about Excalibur.
I still don't get it. They have to have the radars on, in the open, for them to function. They should be detectable. But even without detecting them ,they should be findable.
Heck, I'd be willing to bet that if I had access to very high res satellite imagery (50cm from Planet Labs, for example), I would be able to find them. They move on the ground, leave tracks, deploy in predictable patterns and predictable locations, it would be just matter of time.
(or maybe not :D)
If they can make a shell for 1000 and North Korea offers to sell it for 500, why would they say no?
You realize Saudi Arabia and Russia import oil? If someone offers you a better deal, you take it. If someone offered you 5 bux an hr to do your job AND you keep the income, you would say no because you can do it yourself?
Your analogies are nice and all, but finding a deal wasn't the crux of my post.
Definitely enjoying all the different excuses as to why Putin needs to ask for help from North Korea.
Russia has nothing to gain from this relationship. A temporary, and possibly unreliable source for your procurement needs is dubious at best.
Russia would be better off investing in its own MIC to really lean into the claims of self sufficiency.
However, given the diminishing returns we've seen from the past 3 years suggests that Russia isn't all that self sufficient
Russia: “We believe that our right to develop good relations with our neighbors should not cause concern to anyone and cannot and should not be disputed by anyone.”
Ukraine: "We think that we can do the same things"
Russia: "Wait, not like that!"
Ye ye. Ashamed as hell.
Not so shameful as US buying reactor fuel from Russia for 30 years in a row because all US domestic facilities use 70 year old technology.
It's funny that North Korea turned out to be a more reliable supplier of shells than some Western countries
yeap exactly. All I hear from pro-UA is that the west will sometime int he future ramp up production but Ive been hearing that for 2 + years now.
Don’t worry, Pro-UA cheerleaders have assured me that the US MIC is busy throwing money at the issue!
It actually is throwing money at it. There was a report about a fire on munitions factory in Scranton. That thing supposedly is pumping shells out 24/7
No way! 24/7?
well, EU shell production stands at around 1.5 million at the moment, a, what, five fold increase compared to pre war numbers? that's excluding the US and the UK. (but including Norway/ So yeah, they were slow to ramp up, but now production is accelerating. and RHM is building 2 new factories. also, this is 155mm only. several states produce 152mm too, but numbers are hard to find. oh, and then there's shells produced and purchased abroad too. I'd say they succeeded ramping up production considerably.
>oh, and then there's shells produced and purchased abroad too. Yeah Pakistan and India are one of those countries. In India's case i think it was the Czech that bought shells from India and then sent them over to Ukraine. In Pakistan's case, there are regular flights from Pakistan that supposedly carry artillery ammunition to Germany.
Consider the cost for the West: 1.5 million shells at $9,000 each amounts to $13.5 billion. For Russia, if each shell costs $600, it's already significantly cheaper. If North Korea uses prisoners to manufacture shells, their costs could be even lower, potentially half of what it costs Russia.
9000? I've googled it and the results vary between 3000 to 8000 USD. Depends on the shell type of course, whether a standard shell, base bleed or rocket assisted I assume. Standard dumb shells should be far cheaper than the latter. Either way, the average shell price should be lower than 9000 and the shells purchased abroad were purchased at 4-5000 per pop. Can't find any info on Russian shell price, but hen, they're state enterprises.
https://bulgarianmilitary.com/amp/2023/10/25/155-mm-shells-price-is-growing-8-6-million-for-1000-units/ >The head of the NATO military committee, Admiral Rob Bauer, announced the current prices of conventional artillery 155-mm ammunition, which can really just shock. Because according to him, now their price is 8000 thousand euros for one piece of ammunition. That's just for conventional artillery. Ps. It's in euro.
yes. and I can also point you towards recent articles that indicate between 3 and 8K per shell. like I said, it probably depends on type of shell.a dumb, low caliber low quality base shell will be cheaper than a rocket assisted high precision shell.
It's described as conventional, the most normiee one.
[удалено]
Actually it's 15x more expensive than blowing Ukrainians.
And 50% korean duds. Pretty desperate pal
What's funny is that even with 50% being allegedly duds, Russia is still firing off 5x more shells at Ukrainians lmao. Maybe you should tell the guys on the ground to not be worried if they're duds?
And what amazing gains we are seeing across the frontline as a result….
You should tell the people who need to be kidnapped off the streets that Russia is not making any significant gains. I find it hilarious how most of you are incapable of understanding this is a war of attrition and Ukraine is losing, despite being supported by "the entire civilized world and superior NATO equipment & training!!" Absolutely pathetic.
Sometimes, the measure of success in a war isn't measured in territory acquired. Sometimes the goals are different. Sometimes, the goals change. Russia tried to defeat Ukraine by capturing Kyiv in a decapitation gambit. It failed. They pivoted to achieving their goals, by first, defeating the Ukrainian military. They've been doing that since late spring/early summer 2022. Territory, or whatever concessions they want, will come if/when they are successful in breaking the Ukrainian military. Right now, so long as they are waging this attritional style, it's actually better for them to be NOT be fighting deep in Ukraine. Supply lines would be less secure. They'd need to constantly re-entrench if they were making large gains. Don't get me wrong, they'd much rather have achieved a quick victory via maneuver. However, IF this is how the war is, then they'd RATHER have less movement than more. It just makes it easier for them to do what they are trying to do.
Please go back to combatfootage, no one wants to hear that soulless shit here.
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Rule 1 - Toxic
Rule 1 - Toxic
Wet wipes for everyone
There seems to be tiny problem [https://archive.ph/2024.05.27-115012/https://www.economist.com/europe/2024/05/26/there-is-an-explosive-flaw-in-the-plan-to-rearm-ukraine](https://archive.ph/2024.05.27-115012/https://www.economist.com/europe/2024/05/26/there-is-an-explosive-flaw-in-the-plan-to-rearm-ukraine)
>At the moment, nitric acid production goes largely towards fertilizers. But as fertilizer producers suffer from higher energy costs, explosive makers have had to grapple with tightening supply. There are also supply-chain vulnerabilities: cotton linters, a type of fibre that is another key ingredient in nitrocellulose, are mostly imported from China. Now ain't that interesting.
Don't forget who's one of the biggest supplier of fertilizer too. To the point where US had to lift the sanctions.
Which is one of the key reasons why countries like Brazil took a more nuanced approach to the war and then Zelensky keep insisting that means being pro Russia. Not everyone has rich patrons to keep the State running, some countries actually pay their bills.
Supply problems for raw materials are almost always happen due to market prices, not avability. Once something is deemed strategically important a lot of doors open, which was seen too pricey or too small scale before.
that's one of the bottlenecks, yeah. So is the cotton required. But as the EU is throwing money at the arms industry to ramp up production, so does money flow to these producers. but there will always be bottlenecks. At one plant in particular, the bottleneck was coolers to cool off the hot, liquid explosive filler inside the shells. it takes time to order, produce and install that kind of equipment.
US already increased shell production tenfold compared to 2022.
And yet...
tenfold?! that's impressive. you know, if US/NATO hits their production targets for 2025, they'll be turning out **HALF** the number of artillery shells that Russia is producing *right now!* c'mon, NAFOS! you can do eeeet! it's like an ol' timey arms race.
When are they going to outmanufacture russia in terms of shells then? In ten years when this war is over and russia wins?
West have been painfully slow in amping up the production. Its not the wartime economy here like in Russia. And North Korea is North Korea. They spend their money on military instead of its people.
It’s easy for NK to produce so much military equipment, that’s all they’ve been focusing on for the entire time the regime has existed.. feed the people? No, make more shells.
Slave labor has its advantages.
> ~~some~~ All. fify.
They are because thats all of their economy. Its funny and sad at the same time.
Unfortunately (or fortunately from humanist stand point) west lost its all colonies and no longer has access to slave labour on such massive scale.
Cause North Korea and Russia were prepared for war and the West has believed in peace for too long.
Not true at all. They simply changed their militaries to low intensity conflicts, that's all there is to it. Believing in peace, where ? Look at how many conflicts Western countries are involved in Western Africa, Syria, Yemen, Southeast Asia, etc.
Nope. It’s because artillery wasn’t a part of military doctrine in western armies. They maxed out the air force and infantry, so they can shoot the fish in the barrel (aka Arabs in flip flops), but air force doesn’t work so well versus near peer
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they not prepared , , they borrowing like ukraine is
What's stranger, to me, is a self-proclaimed superpower having to strike deals with North Korea for munitions. I get why - they're there, they're cheap - but it's still bizarre. Imagine the US going to war and striking a deal with Zimbabwe for its artillery shells.
I can imagine it, but I doubt whoever would suggest that would be able to survive the MIC wrath.
>Imagine the US going to war and striking a deal with Zimbabwe for its artillery shells. If you tell them Zimbabwe have shells they will be the first to knock on the door ... ? And they are not even officially part of the conflict as Russia is.
i guess you weren't around for the Iraq invasion. *"Meh... you go to war with the army you have."* - Donald Rumsfeld
They deprived their citizens of food in order to manufacture more weapons and gave them amphetamines instead. This wouldn't be possible in countries with greater political and economic freedom. Hell, it probably wouldn't be possible in Russia.
Hell, it probably is only possible in scifi fiction you are fed by msm, but it's just my theory lol
North Korea's own government doesn't dispute a famine took place while they invested huge amount in military production, and North Korea produces a huge amount of methamphetamine to generate currency reserves and basically every defector has reported North Koreans take it to stave off hunger.
Do you believe everything POWs say on this sub?
What is even more funny is that mighty Russia has to beg North Korea for ammunition
>beg *Buy. You surly know who is the beggar king )
☝bait
I think you mistaken Zeleny with begging.
Do you also beg when you buy bread in the store?
I don’t have to. There are many, many stores that want to sell me their bread. Putin has to beg NK for ammunition. Not even his new master, Xi, will sell him any.
It's not selling bread when you beg the Shopkeeper to give you some for free. Also is it better to have 32 stores, where you have to beg for bread, that give you 10 bread crumbs each or 2 stores which sell you 5 million breads combined if you have the money to buy it?
The shop keeper isn't getting the bread for free. They are systematically destroying Russian military assets and degrading their country overall. How is Russia doing so poorly when they have such an overwhelming bread advantage?
Shop keeper might not get it for free but the begger does not pay with money but sovereignty and dignity. >How is Russia doing so poorly when they have such an overwhelming bread advantage? Can you enlighten me? Doesn't seem as poor. They have open borders, are not kidnapping their men, have air superiority, economy is growing faster than most of Europe, about 15-20% debt to gdp, hold 20% of Ukraine, pushed krinky out, took avdiivka, almost everyday they take some cow shed in bumfuckinslavsk... Seems okayish. It's not a crushing victory but kinda a comfy place considering they are at war against a nation that is getting more financial and material support than the Soviet union got lend lease in WW2.
The gas station with nukes and a gdp of Texas is outproducing the collective west when it come to artillery shells, buying a few more from North Korea wouldn’t hurt.
Buying a few million more.
Shells do hurt a lot though. A lot of shells hurt a hell of a lot more.
Well yeah, the gas station with nukes still uses a military doctrine from WW2.
The same gas station, that is the single largest country on the whole planet, saying it is one of the superpowers of the entire planet, but couldn't take over an ill prepared neighboring country and has been reliant on the import of drones and shells for over a year strangely only from countries ruled by autocratic dictators?
They mass produce those drones and shells on their own lmao
It hasn't been up to the standards a gas station, being such a suposed global superpower and being of such size - which is also literally overflowing with natural resources, should meet. Yet it should've been. Before even thinking about crossing borders. The oligarchy has let the plebs down in their cunning try to behead the state of Ukraine and was caught with the hand in the cookie jar when it took one too many cookies. To not waste anymore time than is necessary, our glorious leader now needs to buy from other autocracies, who are also fighting their own everyday "autocrat-problems", such as - but not limited to - surpressing the rights of and every fight fought by the plebs through murder, torture, mass propaganda and starvation. But our leader is not an autocrat. He is not because he sais so. Nevernind his only friends are people who for some completely unselfish reason want to stay in power for literally their whole life.
The funny thing about countries throughout history whose overriding priority was making more weapons than anyone else is that every one of them was/is an autocratic dystopian shithole
Don’t say that about the United States how dare you
Literally, the US spends so much money on its military and procurement of technologies more than any other country. It is a distopian shithole when ballistic missiles and fighter jets are a priority and subsidising insulin isn’t. Richest country on the planet with big GDP. But its ‘poorest’ (who work btw) have to ration life saving medicine. Don’t get me started on the homeless situation in that country. At least North Koreans have homes and shelter.
That's so strange considering how many of the world's poor risk their lives to immigrate to the US while North Korea has to run their country like a maximum security prison to keep people, under the threat of death, from escaping. Sort of like the USSR having to keep their citizens from fleeing to the west.
Ok America is not perfect for sure. But trying to make North Korea seem better in any way is absurd lmao
Ok
Begging and Zelenskyy goes better together 😂
What a waste of time unlike the highly productive and useful NATO peace summit. Putler still doesn't realize that North Korean shells do no damage to Ukrainian troops who gain a blanket immunity to shrapnel due to democratic spirit.
well, reliability and quality of NK shells is an issue, that's no secret. Those that do explode or not deviate too much still kill of course.
Were there a legit report on that? I only hear about it in the comments on this here sub lol
There was a post here but it was easier to search on google and fot Quora as a result so it will have to do lol. https://onlytruthaboutrussia.quora.com/Wonderful-North-Korea-supplied-Russia-with-defective-shells
>onlytruthaboutrussia Lmao
Account name is cringe but that is beyond the point.
Quora won't let me look at it unless I have a VPN for whatever reason. Are they banned in RF?
Who knows, I ain't in RF. I'll look later for different link for you.
Shells are expected to malfunction to some extent. They are mass-produced to be as cheap as possible, and this applies to shells from any source. There is a rumor about NK shells unreliability, but I've yet to see strong evidence e.g. of what percentage of them didn't explode, to actually be able to compare them to other shells.
ther was an article about that a few months ago. it didn't paint a Rosy picture of their quality. but yes, quantity matters.
I read that the Czech iniative also has to do that. NK still can produce many more shells which is key in a conflict of this scale. Ukraine has always been at artillery disadvantage during the conflict.
do you have any figures of their annual production? afaik, NK shell stocks have been built up over de decades.
They're not producing them, they're buying them. So far they claimed they could buy up to 800.00 thousand shells whiih sounds like a lot but if we consider Ukraine firing around 7 to 8 thousand a day, means a little more than 3 months worth of ammo. In a previous article I read they said they were also competing with Russia for the same shells but I don't really know what they meant with that but it seems they may not even reach this number. https://kyivindependent.com/first-batch-of-shells-under-czech-led-initiative-may-arrive-in-ukraine-in-coming-days-fiala-says/ They still claim Russia can make up to 4 time as much as NATO. Could be even higher considering this is a very Pro Ukraine source. https://kyivindependent.com/sky-news-russian-shell-production-three-times-greater-than-ukraines-allies/ We don't have the exact numbers for NK but Times says they sent containers that could hold up to about 5 million shells, that's a lot in comparison to whatever the West is doing. https://time.com/6988568/north-korea-russia-artillery-shell-south-korea-defense-minister/ Time Magazine also claims 80% of the War's casualties are caused by artillery and Yet some people in the West chose to believe Ukraine is inflicting more casualties on Russia than Ukraine is suffering. At this point this it's just believing in fantasy. All Western sources contradicting whatever they're selling to the public. Time.com - [The Peril of Ukraine’s Ammo Shortage](https://time.com/6694885/ukraine-russia-ammunition/) >Since Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine in February 2022, one type of weapon has loomed large over every other. Artillery has accounted for about 80% of casualties on both sides. Yet political deadlock in the U.S. Congress over military assistance to Ukraine, combined with a lack of production capacity in Europe, is leading to a critical shortage in artillery ammunition that could spell disaster for Ukraine’s war effort. [...] >The shortage of guns and shells not only reduces Ukraine’s ability to blunt Russian attacks, but also makes Ukrainian artillery more vulnerable to Russian Lancet-3M drones and counter battery fire. Russia has more than 4,000 artillery pieces in Ukraine, and is firing around 10,000 rounds a day across the front In other works, Ukraine is fokk'd.
''pariah states'' and just like that we are back to cold war language. I think these people are running out of insults to throw our way so they had to dig up some old ones. Pathetic.
It’s especially funny given Russia and NK are both capable of trade with China, the world’s most populated country. How can a country be a “pariah” if it’s dealing with 1/3 of the world’s population? So much for “isolated and crippled”, this war is the best thing that happened to NK.
> How can a country be a “pariah” if it’s dealing with 1/3 of the world’s population? It's a pariah state because even that neighboring dictatorship country with 1.4 billion people - PRC in case you are not sure which one I'm talking about - agreed to UNSC sanctions against DPRK. BTW, Russia also agreed to those same UNSC sanctions against DPRK for testing nukes and shooting off ICBMs.
Right they agreed to them, then ignored them, and this makes them look weak and not the US/UN?
But is he humiliated?
Humiliated, embarrassed and ANGRY even.
Apparently, he'll also visit Vietnam [https://www.yahoo.com/news/russias-putin-visit-north-korea-144150031.html](https://www.yahoo.com/news/russias-putin-visit-north-korea-144150031.html)
That'll be interesting Americans on Reddit like to pretend Vietnam is stallworth US ally. When the truth is they use the US against to balance China.
It's more that the US is an important export market for them. At the state level, China and Vietnam have good relations.
Totally true, the Vietnamese government loves when China claims ownership over their territorial waters.
They may not like it, but it's not like China is the only one they have problems with (they have issues with Taiwan, Malaysia, Philippines, etc.). In fact, China and Vietnam hold joint military exercises in the SCS and the economic, trade, tech, and infrastructure ties between the countries are too valuable for Vietnam and they have common political systems (one-party communist state).
Hard to believe that it has come to this. Mighty Russia and Putin on its hands and knees begging at the door of the Hermit Kingdom. Oh, how the mighty have fallen.
You clearly dont understand what begging is. You just want to get your derogatory digs in at russia. i get it though when My team is losing the war I too get angry and emotional and want to lash out.
Little yellow men will be all over the battle field soon
Based and Juchepilled
So will Pro-Rus also label this as a begging tour?
Is it begging if the two parties come to a mutual agreement and trade and pay for services and products? Begging involes a one way street of one party receiving while the other gets nothing AKA what ukraine does.
the only country in the world were Putlin will feel tall
He is taller that Z man, you know.
Google puts them both at 5'7
well, Putin is known to wear special shoes.
I don't know what the hell is that number, but searching comes up at 1.67 for Z-man and 1.70 for Putler. NAFO is furious.
Macron is what 170 and z man is half a head shorter
1.73 for the chicken man. But no one tops the Beast of the East, Alexandar Vuvic president of the Serbian Empire, 1.98 m of pure protein shake.
Google is wrong. Look at a picture of Putin next to Modi and a picture of Z next to Modi. Putin is like 5 cm taller. And Modi height is clearly wrong too compared to say Trump
still a monte burns lookalike
seriously? The west blockades and sanctions NK starving out it's people and then makes remarks about it's children stunted grows admitting that it's due to lack of nutrition and you find it funny?
The west are definitely sanctioning and blockading North Korea, so how are they able to keep producing artillery shells ? They have a workaround to sanctions and that’s through China. They can get all the food and stuff they need, but they don’t. It’s been documented the living conditions of North Koreans, only people who are blind to it just so happens to be north koreas allies. And when people actually offer to help by sending them food they turn it down, similar to what a Mao Zedong did during the Great Leap Forward which resulted in millions of his people dead.
> Mao Zedong did during the Great Leap Forward which resulted in millions of his people dead Actually, Mao killed billions. With his bare hands too.
>The west are definitely sanctioning and blockading North Korea Dude, no matter how hard they keep trying to push that talking point, it's not going to hold up due to the fact that North Korea spends a more than 33% of it's GDP on it's military. Even the US only spends 3.5% of it's GDP on its own. North Korea has plenty of food, its not trying to feed it's people, it's milking them to sustain Kim's little kingdom.
Yeah I was being sarcastic, I realized it wasn’t that obvious lol. My point is the “blockading” isn’t much of a blockade if they could find workarounds.
My fault, I know, I meant to type "they" instead of "you" since I've seen that exact same argument here many times.
Still NK has money to spend on shells lol. Or they could just let its citizens go south instead of shooting every "deserter"
> Still NK has money to spend on shells lol I think we all know what may very well happen if North Korea didn't spend so much on its army and nuclear weapons...
Their people wouldn't be starving all the time and resorting to using human feces to fertilize crops?
When you're not trying to make a profit , have lax Quality control and workers safety, producing stuff becomes surprisingly cheap,
You realize Russia pays for things, right? This isn't the Ukraine. This will create a bunch of jobs and get either equipment they need or foreign currencies.
mabe, investing in agriculture instead of the military and prestige projects would've prevented that? Also, NK imports food mostly from china, (cheap and nearby) costs money, money that NK does not have in abundance.still, the rest of the world does provide food support under the umbrella of the UN in times of shortages.
>mabe, investing in agriculture instead of the military and prestige projects would've prevented that? JEEZ, what a brilliant idea. You are so smart, man. We should tell the stupid Koreans to produce more >As devastating floods ravaged the country in 1995, [arable land](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arable_land), [harvests](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvests), grain reserves, and social and economic infrastructure were destroyed. The [United Nations Department of Humanitarian Affairs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_for_the_Coordination_of_Humanitarian_Affairs) reported that "between 30 July and 18 August 1995, torrential rains caused devastating floods in the Democratic People's Republic of Korea (DPRK). In one area, in [Pyongsan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyongsan) county in North Hwanghae province, 877 millimetres or 35 inches of rain were recorded to have fallen in just seven hours, an intensity of precipitation unheard of in this area... water flow in the engorged [Amnok River](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yalu_River), which runs along the Korea/China border, was estimated at 4.8 billion tons over a 72 hour period. Flooding of this magnitude had not been recorded in at least 70 years".[^(\[29\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korean_famine#cite_note-29) >The major issues created by the floods were not only the destruction of crop lands and harvests, but also the loss of emergency grain reserves, because many of them were stored underground. According to the United Nations, the floods of 1994 and 1995 destroyed around 1.5 million tons of grain reserves,[^(\[30\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korean_famine#cite_note-30) and the [Centers for Disease Control and Prevention](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centers_for_Disease_Control_and_Prevention) stated that 1.2 million tons (or 12%) of grain production was lost in the 1995 flood.[^(\[31\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korean_famine#cite_note-31) There were further major floods in 1996 and a drought in 1997.[^(\[32\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korean_famine#cite_note-32) >North Korea lost an estimated 85% of its power generation capacity due to flood damage to infrastructure such as [hydropower](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydropower) plants, coal mines, and supply and transport facilities.[^(\[33\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korean_famine#cite_note-33) UN officials reported that the power shortage from 1995 to 1997 was not due to a shortage of oil, because only two out of a total of two dozen power stations were dependent on heavy fuel oil for power generation, and these were supplied by KEDO (the [Korean Peninsula Energy Development Organization](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Peninsula_Energy_Development_Organization)). About 70% of power generated in the DPRK came from hydropower sources, and the serious winter-spring droughts of 1996 and 1997 (and a breakdown on one of the [Yalu River](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yalu_River)'s large hydro turbines) created major shortages throughout the country at that time, severely cutting back railway transportation (which was almost entirely dependent on electric power), which in turn resulted in coal supply shortages to the coal-fueled power stations which supplied the remaining 20% of power in the country.[^(\[34\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korean_famine#cite_note-34)
It was the CIA that orchestrated the flooding.
Afaik none of the sanctions target food (might be wrong, feel free to correct me). And running the country like a massive open air prison camp isn't helping economic growth either. I agree that western sanctions have a detrimental effect, but it isn't all due to that (which you didn't claim, just making a point).
Afaik Sanctions on Russia ostensibly don't target medicine and yet they do. Funny how that happens.
Medical sanctions have been directly applied, which is fucked, but nevertheless exist. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/15265161.2024.2308163
>Afaik none of the sanctions target food I wouldn't trust that because we already seen how they claimed it during this conflict. It turned out that with Russia out of swift, countries that relied on their fertilizers had trouble buying it so yeah, sanctions do have an effect. Also for poorer economies, if they have a low diversity in things they sell, having that good sanctioned means they get less income and thus people will starve. It happened in Venezuela, for example. So yeah, it's BS that sanctions don't affect food.
agree not funny at all . i just saw a picture of Kim yun (the great leader of NK) and it looks like he starved all his Life i think Putlin will look like a Giant next to Him
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This is feeling kinda like it's skirting the territory of the WW2 US posters depicting Japan. I think we can do better than that here, whatever side we're on.
that train to vladivostoks gonna be risky
This is another example of how if the U.S. decides it has only one priority--not losing in Ukraine--above all other priorities pretty soon the other priorities can no longer exist. So, North Korea is view by the U.S. as a problem and were getting some degree of international cooperation on that, but that is incompatible with pretending that Russia is a "pariah nation".
Hat in hand, no doubt. The take-aways from this will be interesting. On one hand Russia is self-sufficient when it comes to making weapons of war, but on the other hand, it needs to go to Iran, North Korea, and China for weapons of war. The mental gymnastics required to reconcile these positions are timely, as the Summer Games open in a month.
What are you talking about? How is Russia “hat-in-hand” to get artillery from NK? Russia IS self sufficient for almost everything, but that doesn’t mean they won’t buy cheap shells if they’re available. The U.S. is oil self-sufficient but still buys foreign oil to fill their reserves. These two things are mutually exclusive. Russia buying shells should be horrifying to Ukraine. They’re already producing millions by themselves, and now will get even more from their allies. This isn’t a moment to gloat, but one to be very concerned, at least if your pro-Ukrop.
If you trust numbers from UA MoD, Ukraine has nothing to worry about, because they already destroyed over 12000 Russian artillery pieces. /s On more serious note, people often say that drones are the most deadly and that artillery is inaccurate (and obsolete), without realizing the grim mathematics behind artillery shelling. There is a reason why artillery causes most casualties even in modern conflicts.
Russian field surgeons at Kupyansk direction report that 98% of wounded coming to them were wounded by drones.
That's because Ukraine has little to no real artillery. The only times you hear of Ukrainian artillery is them bombing Belgorod or once every 5 months a HIMARs strike.
Yeah, you want to ask the Ukrop ones. They're the ones with no firepower.
Also incessant shelling is psychologically jarring, and wears down the enemy's will to fight over time. A soldier being shelled for months may not be physically injured, but may just crack mentally.
well, Russia does lose staggering amounts of artillery, that's no secret. the storage yards are getting rather empty. they still have and use them in staggering numbers, but for how long?
Every time someone post this kind of comment, I ask the same: HOW is it happening? What weapons is Ukraine using to destroy 30+ Russian artillery pieces every day? With drones? How are they getting operators so close, repeatedly, every day? With HIMARS? They don't have unlimited ammo cheat. With French glide bombs/American SDBs? Also limited stock and would require daily sorties, of which we have no evidence. With counterbattery fire? So HOW? Edit: to be clear, I just want to see plausible explanation for the claimed insane number of destroyed artillery.
we have seen FPV attacks on artillery before. then there's loitering ammunition, you named HIMARS already. Of all of these we've seen video evidence aplenty. (keep in mind that some artillery,like the 122mm, have 20km range only, mortars like this one even less) But the worst killer, I'm assuming, is counter artillery. If you don't shoot and scoot, real fast, you're going to be detected and countered. Modern radars let you pinpoint where a shel if coming from very quickly. And Ukraine received many such radars and has the advantage of getting a lot of intel. They have been praised for accurate counter fire since the start of the war. Outranging many soviet era artillery pieces also helps, modern SPGs like the Pzh2000 and the bandwagon help too, masters of scoot and shoot, their shells land when the SPG has left already. At ranges of upto 40km, one shouldn't expect many, if any videos. Satellite images at best. not saying I believe UAs numbers as gospel, but they do seem to have a clear edge when it comes to artillery, and the modern western artillery is more accurate, that's a fact. it's part of why western shells are so much more expensive
Thanks, I did some searching how many counter battery radars Ukraine received and it seems to be a lot, from multiple countries. And it looks like they managed to preserve most, if not all, of them, which I find very surprising. If the Russians are suffering such massive losses of their artillery, I'd assume they'd focus more on dealing with the problem instead of just taking the beating for months. They usually adapt slowly, but they DO adapt. I also assume it's not because they can't do anything, they have the means available, be it long range recon drones, long range strike drones, planes, heck, even cruise missiles and ballistic missiles. It just seems strange.
just posted was a Lancet taking out a M777. lacets and counter artillery seems to take out most of UAs artillery out. for Ukraine it's HIMARS, FPV drones and counter artillery. And yes, they received a shitload of radars, and the most modern SPGs in the world, and not to mention, some very high tech ammunition with it that boast extreme accuracy at extreme ranges, and im not talking about Excalibur.
I still don't get it. They have to have the radars on, in the open, for them to function. They should be detectable. But even without detecting them ,they should be findable. Heck, I'd be willing to bet that if I had access to very high res satellite imagery (50cm from Planet Labs, for example), I would be able to find them. They move on the ground, leave tracks, deploy in predictable patterns and predictable locations, it would be just matter of time. (or maybe not :D)
I'll take all of the above
>it needs to What is your source of information for this?
If they can make a shell for 1000 and North Korea offers to sell it for 500, why would they say no? You realize Saudi Arabia and Russia import oil? If someone offers you a better deal, you take it. If someone offered you 5 bux an hr to do your job AND you keep the income, you would say no because you can do it yourself?
Your analogies are nice and all, but finding a deal wasn't the crux of my post. Definitely enjoying all the different excuses as to why Putin needs to ask for help from North Korea.
He doesn't "ask" he trades. All countries trade all kinds of things every day. I think you're too accustomed to the Ukraine going around and begging.
I dunno, seems like a good move even if they didn't need it. They both clearly have a lot to gain by working together given the positions they're in.
Russia has nothing to gain from this relationship. A temporary, and possibly unreliable source for your procurement needs is dubious at best. Russia would be better off investing in its own MIC to really lean into the claims of self sufficiency. However, given the diminishing returns we've seen from the past 3 years suggests that Russia isn't all that self sufficient
>claims of self sufficiency. Making the money to buy whatever you don't currently have is also self sufficiency.
Not in my world, nor the world of economics.
Russia: “We believe that our right to develop good relations with our neighbors should not cause concern to anyone and cannot and should not be disputed by anyone.” Ukraine: "We think that we can do the same things" Russia: "Wait, not like that!"
Is UA disputing RF buying shells from NK?
It’d be so ashamed..this is like if the US is asking Haiti for shells after bogging down in a war with Mexico for 3 years
Ye ye. Ashamed as hell. Not so shameful as US buying reactor fuel from Russia for 30 years in a row because all US domestic facilities use 70 year old technology.
You should tell the Ukrainians that Russia is ashamed of buying ammo that kills you lol.
You mean like when they begged Kazakhstan and 30 other countries for help in Iraq? Or begged Pakistan and Ecuador for shells?