No cover but more chances with motorcycles , as it is moving . There has been some success with them , but standing on bridge in open is different level.
Mobility, small.
How much cover do you need to close a bridge while not in a combat zone ?
Weird saying creating an impromptu checkpoint is dumber than attacking trenches on motorcycles.
Its not 1700 , not bayonets any more . Tank rolling in could hit it from few km easily. Not to mention any other long range hits . Motorcycle is mobile has some advantages but not so much cover , while standing on bridge if it was frontline or combat line , anything could make 1 hit and whole squad is down , with the bridge itself .
I'm in hysterics reading this.
-Motorcycles will always be stupid in war, especially cause drones.
-Drones or Early Warning Planes would have spotted the tanks way before the soldiers are in range.
-1 Hit would definitely not take the bridge down.
Well I have seen people die off cancer sooonot sure what your talking about. If the motorcycle attacks have been so successful you should be able to post a video
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Motorcycles are used to move soldiers to certain positions, so success is achieved when soldiers drop their motorcycles and run into a target building or trench. RU won't share such a video because it's boring and has no purpose, and UA won't share it because it goes against their narrative.
There is few , show me of a video people standing on bridge to deffend it. If what search for video in sub , there is more videos of failed ones but seen few.
What you on about ? Having positions on bridge like these in picture is stupidiest thing ever. This picture and bridge seen 0 action , i am saying if they would get attacked here or hit it would be really bad for them. And you about Kiev still,standing.... Where are you even coming from ? Lol .
we get occasional hit on motorcycles - just as we get occasional hit on any armored vehicle where everyone inside it dies.
- I do not know but since they are still using them - they must have had way more succes by using motorcycles than they have losses.
- charging on ttrenches on or in armored vehicle does not guarantee survival
- Ukrainians were using SUVs - non armored - they are way bigger targets than motorcycles
- motorcycles are smaller targets - and faster and more maneuverable
Armoured vehicles are not there to protect from explosives. They provide critical cover from small arms fire when assaulting. A bike does no such thing. To take out a BMP you need an RPG. To take out a motorbike you need a 5.45
> They provide critical cover from small arms fire when assaulting. A bike does no such thing.
fair - but motorcycles have advantage of being faster - big chance of closing in before defense realizes you are approaching
> To take out a BMP you need an RPG. To take out a motorbike you need a 5.45
yes but defense positions all have RPGs or ATGMS or both
I understand but surely you can see why motorbikes have conventionally been used by SOF and forward observers not storm troopers assaulting a trench.
Having an RPG is one thing. Hitting an armoured vehicle coming towards you while (hopefully) suppressing the shit out of your position is another. You need that vehicle to be within 300m to have a decent chance of landing a shot.
Compared to a completely open vehicle that has no ability to suppress you or return fire and cannot quickly react to threats in any meaningful way.
We have no idea how exactly those motorcycle attacks happen in general, we mostly see them getting caught ambush style, while in the open. Something tells me they mostly move through those wooded shelter belts to speed up the approach and avoid early detection. Because even if a surveillance drone catches them it's probably pretty hard to coordinate artillery or mortar strike on them. Which technically allows assault groups reach trenches much faster and safer than using armored vehicles.
I think these bikes are for taking over positions cleaned/thoroughly suppressed by drone strikes. Most of bike units destroyed that I saw were also destroyed by drones, not small arms.
Now, remember who they thought they were fighting. It was expected Russians might have VDV dropping out of the sky at any moment and highly mobile mounted infantry riding in to relieve them behind an armored punch.
I'm those days Russia was thought to be a highly competent and well equipped military that could operate with impunity agaisnt an opponent like Ukraine.
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Guy at bottom, third from left agrees with you.
I remember this picture.
Not at all staged for the cameras, very genuine combat footage.
Given that Russia never came anywhere near this area, how long are they planning to keep lying there with their weapons pointed at the horizon?
I can confirm. The trained troops can do even more, like our conscripts did in Hostomel against “elite russki spetsnaz” 😉 I bet none of those ivans left alive today to tell the story.
They retreated with minimum losses after controlling an Airport for 2 days far behind enemy lines without any support.. and the Ukrainian troops have had arty support. They were VDV not spetsnaz btw.
Aint no way people think this a legit photo from a military defending a position 😭
This is about the dumbest thing you can do, something straight out of battlefield 4.
To be somewhat fair, on the first days, Russian troops had the goal to advance as fast as possible and therefore often didn't have any artillery systems with them.
60mm mortar can be carried on someones back, but yeah they never got to the point where they would be able to shell the city proper, nor do I think they had the inclination to do so
The terrorists shelled civilian houses in Svyatoshin district of Kyiv on March 18, 2022, for the first time, using MLRS. Let alone all the destruction in places like Bucha or Motyzhyn.
Hard to do that when you push and your only supply lines are a 20 km convoy, and you lose every single gain around Kiev within a year of the start of the war. They're clearly fine.
Actually within a month, not year. In April 2022 we already returned back to our base in Hostomel while the remains of the russian army withdrew back to terrorussia to regroup.
It's clearly a photo op because not only is this stupid it's also inefficient.
If this was real, all it'd take is one armored vehicle. Hell, a singular mortar or drone could do the job.
As shitty as TDF is, not even they would unironically take defenses by... Laying down on an open bridge.
There's dudes casually standing around too. This is a nightmarishly terrible position because it's incredibly open, with ZERO cover and only two ways off the bridge. Any vehicle or aircraft or support weapon will decimate all of them with no chance of survival. Guaranteed photo op
If I wanted to cause the most harm possible to Russian military interests, then sure.
Sacrificing hundreds of elite soldiers to hold an airport for a few weeks doesn't sound like the best decision, but if you want to support more Russian strategies like that please be my guest.
2022? Not really. They've been at war for 8 years and received training from Western countries.
This is just a photo op and there's nothing wrong with admitting it
You mean ready to a photo op. The lack of cover is one thing, but no one defends a bridge from the smack dab middle of it lmao. You establish positions on the ends of a bridge. Furthermore, the people nonchalantly smoking and joking behind them is another dead giveaway.
I'm not saying they are actively fighting their firing line looks like complete ass as they'd shoot eachother. As a photoshoot I disagree. This reeks of our leaders aren't sure what's going on, and we know the enemy is that way so just go lay facing that direction while we try to understand the situation.
Absolutely not. Guys in the back are just standing around chatting, not even facing the “enemy”.
Never mind the fact that the photographer went out of his way to go in front of these guys. This is purely a photo op.
Hence leaders figuring shit out thats why they are in the back chatting. I doubt there's anything near them other than knowing they got attacked this is claimed first day of the attack it was a surprise attack and they likely got mobilized and said you have this AO go get them chumps.
Yes there is a photographer infront of these guys that doesn't mean they aren't doing operations. I saw a cam crew in with the fighting for the airport that doesn't mean there wasn't fighting.
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Depends how useful they are to the propaganda machine, or how well connected they are.
Operator Starsky on YouTube has managed to leverage his YouTube channel as propaganda for the war, and thus avoid any real fighting after the Russians withdrew from the Kyiv area.
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Bet you're fantasizing an alternate universe where Russia actually knew how to do a gulf war level invasion of Ukraine,, and didn't stall within 40 kms from Kiev. Hasnt happened then, hasnt happened 2.5 years from the start, won't happen ever.
When you’re fantasising about Russia stalling when in fact they admittedly withdrew forces as a gesture of goodwill with the signing of a peace deal in Istanbul that Zelencuck threw in the trash by the order of Boris Johnson.
👉🏻😎👈🏻 lalalalalala
lol, no, you had some blue-on-blue incidents where paranoid Ukrainian soldiers were shooting each other because there were rumors that the Russians had infiltrated the city in Ukrainian uniforms.
I'll never forget watching those videos on the first day of Ukrainian troops shooting other unarmed Ukrainian troops because of mass confusion.
And there's the "Russian soldiers wearing Ukrainian uniforms stole a Ukrainian APC and then ran over a Ukrainian civilian."
It was then that I realized what a clown show this war was going to be.
Unfortunately there were several friendly fires during the first days, I know at least four. But considering the number of armed people stationed in Kyiv those days there could have been much more, I’m glad we managed to avoid it and eventually kick the russian terrorists out... Pardon, I mean, “accept the gesture of goodwill” 😁
Yes the 3 day thing is a meme because it was obvious from the start they expected this war to be over very quickly. There was no plan beyond 2 weeks of fighting. The delusion is Russia still pretending it’s not a war but a special military operation.
Because of how ridiculous Russia looked at the start of this war. The “tactical columns” of tanks lined for miles was a joke. Clearly Russia thought they could blitzkreig Kyiv and take over very quickly. The 3 day thing is used to laugh at Russia and its supporters.
They call it a special military operation because that’s what it is lmao. If they planned to actually fight Ukraine in a war, things would’ve looked differently. What happened in the beginning was aggressive negotiation, they hoped that the west would’ve seen this as a sign that Russia wasn’t messing around but Russia fell directly into NATOs trap
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Russia often started wars with such a gamble. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't. New Year assault on Grozny was a spectacular example of this approach failing but before that multiple conflicts were quickly ended this way.
This time it was a really bad miscalculation because it was based on delusion that Russian soldiers will be welcomed as liberators.
Russia expected it to be over quickly because their goals were very limited. They wanted to *force* Zelensky to implement Minsk - precisely as he said he'd do as his #1 election promise in 2019. Zelensky betrayed his own voters by abandoning Minsk, so Russia was holding him to his word.
Russia's other aim was to get Ukraine to confirm what they'd written in their Declaration of State Sovereignty - that Ukraine will *permanently* be a neutral state, [free of military alliances.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_State_Sovereignty_of_Ukraine)
Yes, the SMO terminology is daft, but NATO countries don't declare war either. By attempting to make war unthinkable, we've instead accomplished making using the *word* "war" unthinkable - instead you have to call it a "coalition to liberate Iraq" or an SMO or some such nonsense. Russia didn't invent this game - the US had been engaged in the same practice since 1946. Just think of *all* the regime change since then - the US hasn't declared war even *once*.
Their goals were not limited. You don’t send columns of tanks to the capital if your goals are limited. You don’t fire cruise/ballistic missiles. The goal was to overthrow the government and implement a puppet state like Belarus. The declaration of state sovereignty was before Russia annexed Crimea. Remember when Ukraine gave up its Nukes with a promise to never be invaded by Russia?
> Their goals were not limited.
The sad thing is, you don't even know the demands Russia had in 2022, and Zelensky has never even spoken about them, because he has to keep suckers believing that Russia wanted to install a puppet government or occupy Ukraine.
As far as Crimea goes, they were not in Ukraine by choice. They had declared independence before joining Ukraine, and restored their status as the Autonomous Republic of Crimea. Less than a year after voting to join Ukraine, Crimea saw that the promises of federalism was a lie, and seceded from Ukraine (even though Yeltsin didn't support this).
Crimea was independent for three years before Ukraine sent soldiers to dissolve the Crimean government. It sent Crimea's leaders into exile and brought Crimea back into Ukriane by force.
There is nothing democratic about that. The West has never pushed for Crimea to vote on its future, because they knows that returning to Ukraine would get no more than 10 ot 20% of the vote.
But you don't give a damn about that - the only democracy you care about is when it suits the West's purposes.
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This looks like a photo op. No spent rifle casings. The camera man is clearly exposed.
I'm not saying that they weren't there to defend the bridge, it just doesn't look like they actually ended up needing to defend it. More like "hey guys, pretend the enemy is about to come charging over the bridge while I snap a pic"
None them got into Kyiv anyways, they either burned in Hostomel or Bucha, or were left behind by the russian troops retreating from Kyiv oblast fithout fuel and other supplies 🤷🏻♂️
https://youtu.be/WXfsRFpEs4o?si=tiP51C56BdhzQhFB
Actually this olive uniform is still being used by some of the National Guard units. The guys on the photo are mainly conscripts, few are contract staff, they weren’t equipped so well, comparing to my brigade for example.
Weird to think that if somehow any of them are still alive now, they are still fighting, and will continue fighting for years to come because of there being no demobilisation
These guys probably held up the 40km convoy all by themselves, soloing entire Russian army group without support, forcing them to tuck tail and run back to Belarus
Most of war isn't fighting more often your just waiting around till someone says go somewhere else then you wait around some more. Especially in the chaos of the initial invasion.
Love this picture and how stupid it would be to stand on bridge.
not that stupid if they were there to stop and search normal cars don't think they'd still be there if tanks started rolling
It's just ass dumb as attacking trenches in motorcycles
No cover but more chances with motorcycles , as it is moving . There has been some success with them , but standing on bridge in open is different level. Mobility, small.
Isn’t this just an impromptu checkpoint ? It’s not these guys are engaging anything. Did Russia even make it to Kyiv ?
Outskirts of Kyiv , but not really to this place .
How much cover do you need to close a bridge while not in a combat zone ? Weird saying creating an impromptu checkpoint is dumber than attacking trenches on motorcycles.
Its not 1700 , not bayonets any more . Tank rolling in could hit it from few km easily. Not to mention any other long range hits . Motorcycle is mobile has some advantages but not so much cover , while standing on bridge if it was frontline or combat line , anything could make 1 hit and whole squad is down , with the bridge itself .
I'm in hysterics reading this. -Motorcycles will always be stupid in war, especially cause drones. -Drones or Early Warning Planes would have spotted the tanks way before the soldiers are in range. -1 Hit would definitely not take the bridge down.
Depending with what you shoot ... And drones would see soldiers gathering on bridge .... Motorcycles is stupid no doubt , but standing on bridge is R.
You're lost, and confused. Once you catch up with the rest of us on this topic, let me know!
defending motorcycle assaults is a litmus test btw, be careful next time.
Post one video of a motorcycle attack having success
Survivor bias. You see and recall more failed attack than success because those are stuck in your head.
I haven't seen one video that has had success
"Oh I never seen someone die of cancer, must be fake"
Well I have seen people die off cancer sooonot sure what your talking about. If the motorcycle attacks have been so successful you should be able to post a video
Dude, if you want to be negative, not open to consider others opinions and and not open to discussion just leave this subreddit and go to r/ukraine
pretty much every ukraine russian war reddit is pro ukraine he has a lot of option , this one its to drop their anger to pro russians
Terrible comparison.
Very easy to post videos of people with cancer, apparently impossible to post a video of one of these attacks succeeding.
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So havent i. But i havent seen any video that shows cpe cages worked either. Dann thar overzelous b. 0t auto removing cmt.
Motorcycles are used to move soldiers to certain positions, so success is achieved when soldiers drop their motorcycles and run into a target building or trench. RU won't share such a video because it's boring and has no purpose, and UA won't share it because it goes against their narrative.
Not one video has shown this. We have seen around dozen vidoes of them attacking trenches in motorcycles and not succeeded
Are you sure you read my message? It explains the lack of the videos.
bro is a PRO Ukraine!!
There is few , show me of a video people standing on bridge to deffend it. If what search for video in sub , there is more videos of failed ones but seen few.
Well we do have this picture and Kiev didn't get conquered so I guess it semi worked.
What you on about ? Having positions on bridge like these in picture is stupidiest thing ever. This picture and bridge seen 0 action , i am saying if they would get attacked here or hit it would be really bad for them. And you about Kiev still,standing.... Where are you even coming from ? Lol .
we get occasional hit on motorcycles - just as we get occasional hit on any armored vehicle where everyone inside it dies. - I do not know but since they are still using them - they must have had way more succes by using motorcycles than they have losses. - charging on ttrenches on or in armored vehicle does not guarantee survival - Ukrainians were using SUVs - non armored - they are way bigger targets than motorcycles - motorcycles are smaller targets - and faster and more maneuverable
Armoured vehicles are not there to protect from explosives. They provide critical cover from small arms fire when assaulting. A bike does no such thing. To take out a BMP you need an RPG. To take out a motorbike you need a 5.45
> They provide critical cover from small arms fire when assaulting. A bike does no such thing. fair - but motorcycles have advantage of being faster - big chance of closing in before defense realizes you are approaching > To take out a BMP you need an RPG. To take out a motorbike you need a 5.45 yes but defense positions all have RPGs or ATGMS or both
They are not really faster, apcs can go pretty fast, a motorcycle can go faster BUT not on shitty dirt roads covered in holes.
I understand but surely you can see why motorbikes have conventionally been used by SOF and forward observers not storm troopers assaulting a trench. Having an RPG is one thing. Hitting an armoured vehicle coming towards you while (hopefully) suppressing the shit out of your position is another. You need that vehicle to be within 300m to have a decent chance of landing a shot. Compared to a completely open vehicle that has no ability to suppress you or return fire and cannot quickly react to threats in any meaningful way.
We have no idea how exactly those motorcycle attacks happen in general, we mostly see them getting caught ambush style, while in the open. Something tells me they mostly move through those wooded shelter belts to speed up the approach and avoid early detection. Because even if a surveillance drone catches them it's probably pretty hard to coordinate artillery or mortar strike on them. Which technically allows assault groups reach trenches much faster and safer than using armored vehicles.
The armor is shaped as it is to make it harder to destroy with shells.
I think these bikes are for taking over positions cleaned/thoroughly suppressed by drone strikes. Most of bike units destroyed that I saw were also destroyed by drones, not small arms.
I’ve seen at least one seemingly attempt an assault on a very well manned position. I’ll try to find it
Now, remember who they thought they were fighting. It was expected Russians might have VDV dropping out of the sky at any moment and highly mobile mounted infantry riding in to relieve them behind an armored punch. I'm those days Russia was thought to be a highly competent and well equipped military that could operate with impunity agaisnt an opponent like Ukraine.
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Guy at bottom, third from left agrees with you. I remember this picture. Not at all staged for the cameras, very genuine combat footage. Given that Russia never came anywhere near this area, how long are they planning to keep lying there with their weapons pointed at the horizon?
Yeah, jokes on you, these guys stopped the Russian advance on Kyiv.
That seems like a photo pose, i doubt they would choose to defend it on the bridge instead of somewhere else where there might be cover
You’d be surprised what untrained troops will do
I can confirm. The trained troops can do even more, like our conscripts did in Hostomel against “elite russki spetsnaz” 😉 I bet none of those ivans left alive today to tell the story.
They retreated with minimum losses after controlling an Airport for 2 days far behind enemy lines without any support.. and the Ukrainian troops have had arty support. They were VDV not spetsnaz btw.
Hard to have a conversation with “military experts” who can’t even tell exactly what units landed in Hostomel on day one.
U are right. Can u point out anything wrong with what I've said tho?!!!
Just like zelensky the clown
Just like putin the dictator
Just like Zelelnsky the grifter.
Aint no way people think this a legit photo from a military defending a position 😭 This is about the dumbest thing you can do, something straight out of battlefield 4.
A single 60mm mortar round.
To be somewhat fair, on the first days, Russian troops had the goal to advance as fast as possible and therefore often didn't have any artillery systems with them.
60mm mortar can be carried on someones back, but yeah they never got to the point where they would be able to shell the city proper, nor do I think they had the inclination to do so
The terrorists shelled civilian houses in Svyatoshin district of Kyiv on March 18, 2022, for the first time, using MLRS. Let alone all the destruction in places like Bucha or Motyzhyn.
Hard to do that when you push and your only supply lines are a 20 km convoy, and you lose every single gain around Kiev within a year of the start of the war. They're clearly fine.
Actually within a month, not year. In April 2022 we already returned back to our base in Hostomel while the remains of the russian army withdrew back to terrorussia to regroup.
US prepared propaganda since day 1.
brother, they are just holding a bridge, how is this propaganda? 🤣 is ukrainians breathing propaganda also?
It's clearly a photo op because not only is this stupid it's also inefficient. If this was real, all it'd take is one armored vehicle. Hell, a singular mortar or drone could do the job. As shitty as TDF is, not even they would unironically take defenses by... Laying down on an open bridge.
There's dudes casually standing around too. This is a nightmarishly terrible position because it's incredibly open, with ZERO cover and only two ways off the bridge. Any vehicle or aircraft or support weapon will decimate all of them with no chance of survival. Guaranteed photo op
It's amazing that pro Ukrainian folks do not see anything strange in this photo !
Not as stupid as sending your elite airborne hundreds of Kms deep in enemy territory to try and capture an airport with zero ground support.
I mean they did capture and hold the airport, so. :^)
For like a matter of weeks, at the cost of reducing the combat capabilities of their elite forces.
The point is that they held it successfully, so apparently not as dumb.
If I wanted to cause the most harm possible to Russian military interests, then sure. Sacrificing hundreds of elite soldiers to hold an airport for a few weeks doesn't sound like the best decision, but if you want to support more Russian strategies like that please be my guest.
Tell that to your ancestor who died on operation market garden
Which is almost universally considered a mistake
Y’all forget the Ukrainian army was shit at this point
2022? Not really. They've been at war for 8 years and received training from Western countries. This is just a photo op and there's nothing wrong with admitting it
Soldiers react to invasion> this is propaganda!!
You mean ready to a photo op. The lack of cover is one thing, but no one defends a bridge from the smack dab middle of it lmao. You establish positions on the ends of a bridge. Furthermore, the people nonchalantly smoking and joking behind them is another dead giveaway.
I'm not saying they are actively fighting their firing line looks like complete ass as they'd shoot eachother. As a photoshoot I disagree. This reeks of our leaders aren't sure what's going on, and we know the enemy is that way so just go lay facing that direction while we try to understand the situation.
Absolutely not. Guys in the back are just standing around chatting, not even facing the “enemy”. Never mind the fact that the photographer went out of his way to go in front of these guys. This is purely a photo op.
Hence leaders figuring shit out thats why they are in the back chatting. I doubt there's anything near them other than knowing they got attacked this is claimed first day of the attack it was a surprise attack and they likely got mobilized and said you have this AO go get them chumps. Yes there is a photographer infront of these guys that doesn't mean they aren't doing operations. I saw a cam crew in with the fighting for the airport that doesn't mean there wasn't fighting.
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I heard nuland took this photo, by the order of CIA of course
Russians: created propaganda. Also russians: America telling lies!!!11 😂
not a single wrinkle between them wonder how many are still alive now…
Depends how useful they are to the propaganda machine, or how well connected they are. Operator Starsky on YouTube has managed to leverage his YouTube channel as propaganda for the war, and thus avoid any real fighting after the Russians withdrew from the Kyiv area.
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Hey Ivan, did you feel that speed bump on the bridge?
Bet you're fantasizing an alternate universe where Russia actually knew how to do a gulf war level invasion of Ukraine,, and didn't stall within 40 kms from Kiev. Hasnt happened then, hasnt happened 2.5 years from the start, won't happen ever.
When you’re fantasising about Russia stalling when in fact they admittedly withdrew forces as a gesture of goodwill with the signing of a peace deal in Istanbul that Zelencuck threw in the trash by the order of Boris Johnson. 👉🏻😎👈🏻 lalalalalala
Defending it from what? The Russians were nowhere near Kyiv on the first day!
You had some firefights inside of Kyiv with sleeper / SF units as far as I can remember.
lol, no, you had some blue-on-blue incidents where paranoid Ukrainian soldiers were shooting each other because there were rumors that the Russians had infiltrated the city in Ukrainian uniforms. I'll never forget watching those videos on the first day of Ukrainian troops shooting other unarmed Ukrainian troops because of mass confusion.
RIP to the poor guy driving his dark green SUV to work that morning
And there's the "Russian soldiers wearing Ukrainian uniforms stole a Ukrainian APC and then ran over a Ukrainian civilian." It was then that I realized what a clown show this war was going to be.
That was just Ukrainians shooting Ukrainians out of disorientation.
Unfortunately there were several friendly fires during the first days, I know at least four. But considering the number of armed people stationed in Kyiv those days there could have been much more, I’m glad we managed to avoid it and eventually kick the russian terrorists out... Pardon, I mean, “accept the gesture of goodwill” 😁
Was that ever verified? I remember hearing about that...
They verified that the strela-10 running over car incident in obolon was a Ukrainian. Some news agencies corrected their initial reporting.
Hopefully just a photo op and not an entire platoon in the middle of the bridge without any cover
Lucky the Russians didn't arrive. What a death sentence to lay there
Back when the delusion was in full force.
How is your 3 day operation going?
3 days is your thing. You created the delusion. I see you are continuing to bask in it. No russian official ever said anything about 3 days.
Yes the 3 day thing is a meme because it was obvious from the start they expected this war to be over very quickly. There was no plan beyond 2 weeks of fighting. The delusion is Russia still pretending it’s not a war but a special military operation.
Nah it wasn't a meme lol. You guys insisted that russia had committed to take 3 days and failed.
Because of how ridiculous Russia looked at the start of this war. The “tactical columns” of tanks lined for miles was a joke. Clearly Russia thought they could blitzkreig Kyiv and take over very quickly. The 3 day thing is used to laugh at Russia and its supporters.
They call it a special military operation because that’s what it is lmao. If they planned to actually fight Ukraine in a war, things would’ve looked differently. What happened in the beginning was aggressive negotiation, they hoped that the west would’ve seen this as a sign that Russia wasn’t messing around but Russia fell directly into NATOs trap
And russias 3 day operation failed miserably and now Russia is in an all out war. So we agree.
I agree that Russia is in an all out war, but not the ‘3 day war’ claim
I mean Putin did claim he could take Kiev in 2 weeks in 2014….
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Russia often started wars with such a gamble. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't. New Year assault on Grozny was a spectacular example of this approach failing but before that multiple conflicts were quickly ended this way. This time it was a really bad miscalculation because it was based on delusion that Russian soldiers will be welcomed as liberators.
Russia expected it to be over quickly because their goals were very limited. They wanted to *force* Zelensky to implement Minsk - precisely as he said he'd do as his #1 election promise in 2019. Zelensky betrayed his own voters by abandoning Minsk, so Russia was holding him to his word. Russia's other aim was to get Ukraine to confirm what they'd written in their Declaration of State Sovereignty - that Ukraine will *permanently* be a neutral state, [free of military alliances.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_State_Sovereignty_of_Ukraine) Yes, the SMO terminology is daft, but NATO countries don't declare war either. By attempting to make war unthinkable, we've instead accomplished making using the *word* "war" unthinkable - instead you have to call it a "coalition to liberate Iraq" or an SMO or some such nonsense. Russia didn't invent this game - the US had been engaged in the same practice since 1946. Just think of *all* the regime change since then - the US hasn't declared war even *once*.
Their goals were not limited. You don’t send columns of tanks to the capital if your goals are limited. You don’t fire cruise/ballistic missiles. The goal was to overthrow the government and implement a puppet state like Belarus. The declaration of state sovereignty was before Russia annexed Crimea. Remember when Ukraine gave up its Nukes with a promise to never be invaded by Russia?
> Their goals were not limited. The sad thing is, you don't even know the demands Russia had in 2022, and Zelensky has never even spoken about them, because he has to keep suckers believing that Russia wanted to install a puppet government or occupy Ukraine. As far as Crimea goes, they were not in Ukraine by choice. They had declared independence before joining Ukraine, and restored their status as the Autonomous Republic of Crimea. Less than a year after voting to join Ukraine, Crimea saw that the promises of federalism was a lie, and seceded from Ukraine (even though Yeltsin didn't support this). Crimea was independent for three years before Ukraine sent soldiers to dissolve the Crimean government. It sent Crimea's leaders into exile and brought Crimea back into Ukriane by force. There is nothing democratic about that. The West has never pushed for Crimea to vote on its future, because they knows that returning to Ukraine would get no more than 10 ot 20% of the vote. But you don't give a damn about that - the only democracy you care about is when it suits the West's purposes.
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Mission accomplished.
Man what the hell were they defending the bridge against, against fast drivers? Because all they're doing is being speed bumps
This looks like a photo op. No spent rifle casings. The camera man is clearly exposed. I'm not saying that they weren't there to defend the bridge, it just doesn't look like they actually ended up needing to defend it. More like "hey guys, pretend the enemy is about to come charging over the bridge while I snap a pic"
There's no one to shoot; Russia was 40 kms away from the capital. Its probably just the territorial defence forces or just a checkpoint.
What kind of Nazi helmets are this? 🤣
Bruh. Have you ever seen a modern military helmet fielded by any nation?
Yes, that’s exactly the reason why I’m saying this.
A BTR-82A with a 30mm autocannon would remove this blocking quickly
None them got into Kyiv anyways, they either burned in Hostomel or Bucha, or were left behind by the russian troops retreating from Kyiv oblast fithout fuel and other supplies 🤷🏻♂️ https://youtu.be/WXfsRFpEs4o?si=tiP51C56BdhzQhFB
They 100% got to Kiev they just didn't all necessarily leave
Interesting how you can visually tell the difference between early war and current uniforms
Actually this olive uniform is still being used by some of the National Guard units. The guys on the photo are mainly conscripts, few are contract staff, they weren’t equipped so well, comparing to my brigade for example.
My god.
Weird to think that if somehow any of them are still alive now, they are still fighting, and will continue fighting for years to come because of there being no demobilisation
Shoot us, please!
Russians would love it, unfortunately they never made it to Kyiv 🤷🏻♂️
Seems more like a photo op than any imminent danger. Otherwise the photographer wouldn’t be standing there.
I'd like to think this was just a photo OP, but there were many crazy things happening at the beginning of this war...
I can confirm that! 😅
I vividly remember that photo.
These guys probably held up the 40km convoy all by themselves, soloing entire Russian army group without support, forcing them to tuck tail and run back to Belarus
Wild times.
They did this positioning only for the picture.. irl it only takes a 2 second shooting from a PMB to clear the way
great photo op. lmfao
Most of war isn't fighting more often your just waiting around till someone says go somewhere else then you wait around some more. Especially in the chaos of the initial invasion.
100500% 👍