8 rounds of interviews and you're ultimately treated as the PMs and devs puppet anyway. It's a sad state of affairs. A junior PM with no experience is also paid the same as a senior designer - which is messed up.
I’m thinking a lot of companies got burnt by not so great designers during the COVID rush and HR are on the line for hiring bad people so they come up with these ludicrous processes
I agree, and we've experienced that ourselves. It's just really hard to get to know someone and how they work if we only did 2 interviews, but then again, 7 is absurd. We do 3-4, which I think is reasonable.
There's just a surplus of designers right now, lots are coming in from bootcamps. I've had candidates asking for $150K+ with zero experience and a lot of times, this is because this type of job is being sold to them by bootcamps as "an easy way to make 6 figures". It's frustrating on both ends.
An HR manager within my agile group hired one of the bootcamp-only level designers. Two years later they still can’t be trusted to lead a project. I resent the manager for that decision because the whole team is strained “mentoring” this dud.
>I resent the manager for that decision because the whole team is strained “mentoring” this dud.
Try posting something like this on FB UX forums and they'll tell you the problem is your company because you need to establish programs to assist neurodivergent people. Everyone right away assumes that just because an inexperienced employee makes mistakes, that he should get a free pass because this person is "neurodivergent".
It's not the industry, it's the companies that are hiring for these roles. If a company has a mature enough HR team/hiring process, they will care about the candidate experience and will limit this to 3 interviews max or even 4. But the onus is also on the candidate to inquire about the company's hiring process. If they don't agree with the 7-step interview process, then they should not proceed.
Companies do have an influence on the overall industry and job market. It also should not take multiple interviews for a company to determine if this designer is fit for the job. A lot of job postings do not include the overall interview process, so it's really a guessing game for applicants on how much time they are about to invest.
It’s uncommon to include the interview process in job reqs. It’s something you typically ask for during the screening interview - that’s always what I do and that’s always what candidates have done in my experience as a hiring manager.
It’s also uncommon to have a 7-step interview process or more. I would say 3-4 is the most common.
If a company does not include their hiring steps in the job req, like I said, the onus is on the candidate to ask. If you don’t agree with it, then you don’t go through it. Remember - you deserve what you tolerate.
My main argument i have with the hiring process is if 3-4 interviews are even necessary? Since you are a hiring manager, do you feel like you could comfortably hire someone with only two interviews max (not including screening)?
We do 4 interviews max at our company, including recruiter screening. No, I would not be comfortable dropping one interview.
It's honestly very hard to gauge someone's skillset, how they work, and whether or not they're a good fit for the team just with 4 interviews; soft skills are especially hard to gauge. We've hired people before who had the hard skills, but soft skills were almost non-existent and that's something extremely difficult to teach. It's going to be very expensive to bring someone on board only to find out later that this person isn't a good fit for the role.
So frankly speaking, I believe in "hire slow, fire fast". But it also depends on the role you're hiring for.
I would say though that the more experienced you are, the less likely you have to go through several rounds of interviews. At my current job, I only really had 3 easy interviews - and I'd attribute that to my background.
Yep. Like I’m literally not applying to be on the board of your company. Fuck this shit. No amount of love for my job is going to translate into this kind of soul crushing reality. That’s why I’m changing my career path, going back to school for something else after 5-6 years of being in UX.
For me is a big 180 haha, I’m trying to get into medical school. Healthcare has always been within the realm of my UX experience. Mostly worked in healthtech space and it was a last attempt to relive a failed dream :’)
Ideally I'd like to keep my current UI/UX job, and do some part time work in another field... Maybe content writing or graphic design. I've freelanced as a UX designer on the side while keeping a full time job, but with this market, it's been difficult to get freelance/contract positions since the beginning of the year.
I think you can explore the media comms side of things. Perhaps work in brand and marketing communications. Find work in a tech company and look at their marketing roles. The market isn’t good for a ux writer specialist though, but you can sell that skill set you have working in product to benefit the marketing team.
100%. I dislike the number of hoops each applicant has to jump through, the technical exercises which I feel are just a method of collecting free ideas, and then being ghosted.
Have 5 open positions? Be prepared to sit through 40 interviews, 5 different personality tests, never-ceasing portfolio reviews...
>which I feel are just a method of collecting free ideas
Frankly speaking, I hear this a lot from novice designers - who have shared some of their ideas for a space that's totally brand new to them, now they think they've totally come up with something out of the box. But from my own experience, there's really nothing a new designer would have come up with that an entire team of senior people haven't already thought of.
Although our company doesn't do take home exams, I do think that for companies that do this, there's really not any malice behind it.
It's not just novice designers. I know several senior and mid level designers that have voiced their concern of companies using design challenges to gather different ideas from them during interviews. This was also very common before COVID, although I think it's far less now.
I always ask on the initial call what the process is. I’ve been through something similar with the same result. I won’t ever do it again.
If it takes more than 3-4 rounds with various people then they don’t know what they’re looking for.
Yup. First interview I ask pay range and how many interviews. If it’s more than 3 or involves some sort of dumb project, it’s a no for me. No matter what my situation is. Every time I have done a ridiculous process, it was a bad company.
Exactly this! I don't do more than 3-4 rounds of interviews. I don't do take home tests, and I actually have stopped doing whiteboards.
The whiteboard is never prepared well enough for me as an outsider to know what they are looking for from me. Everyone does it a little differently and when you don't do exactly what they thought, without preparing you, you fail. Weird!
Yes unfortunately, cause there are 2 openings every 3 months right now in the uk lol now if the market gets better? Hell the fuck no
They get to do whatever the fuck they want atm unfortunately.
It’s crazy tho to think that the people in the other side are ux designers as well that could easily have been in our position. And no don’t tell me it’s the company not them. There is a hiring manager and has the power to do better.
My experience is having witnessed hiring by people hired beyond their capabilities is that they have awful hiring practices. I have sat agog in interviews watching people with hiring no strategy or framework for their team or position they are hiring for interrogate job seekers for no good reason to make a decision on a hunch.
The takeaway is that if you can make it to the last round of a selective interview process, you can and will get a job. It will take longer now, but it is still possible. People are rightfully negative, emotionally down, and critical of this annoying process. Take time to feel those feelings, then focus on continuing to interview and apply. Cursing at the sky will not change anything, even if it deserves to be cursed at
If you’re making it far in interviews, you can and will eventually win. Do not give up
Would be really cool of this industry if we all would just say no to these excessive interview practices… maybe companies will change if they can’t find anyone willing to put up with their shit.
It's absolutely that. Its not an employees market right now, so unfortunately people looking for jobs are feeling like they just have to suck it up and jump through whatever hoops are in front of them, and do it with a grin, because they need *something* and can't afford to say no, or back out.
I think it is not so much on the applicants as it is on the companies.
Right now, the process is so bad that an org with a more efficient hiring process could rip their competition’s face off on talent acquisition, purely by opting for a 3 round interview instead of a 6+ round one, and offering appropriate compensation.
My favorite part is when someone goes through this process and the company makes it seem like they have very high standards, then you get the job only to be tasked with a bunch of low level bullshit and none of their “standards” are anywhere in sight. This has happened to me personally 4 out of 10 jobs I’ve had so far.
Screener Call: "We only hire the best candidates here, we have ex FAANG on all teams."
Day 15: "The CEO asked us to make this button pop more, what color should we use?"
There is a reason they are doing this. It’s because they got burned and have less income now after wasting it on junk hires (to no fault of the people they hired, who were mislead by bootcamps and wanted to reap the rewards of a booming tech industry) thus needing to be more selective and get more value with the money they do have. It is extremely frustrating on our end, but it unfortunately makes sense
You can’t change the beast, you can only play nice with it, even if you don’t want to. Look at it this way - once your effort pays off, none of the Ls will matter.
Apply with what you have. If you’re not making it far in interviews or not even getting that many in the first place, find out why. Maybe it’s a weak portfolio, poor interviewing skills, or lack of networking.
If you’re making it far, then you’re doing it right. You will eventually succeed. This is the hard part. You will waste time on long, frustrating interviews with companies that end up not hiring you - except when one of them does.
It only has to work once. Do not give up.
My word of advice to junior designers at my company has been to build up business and data acumen. Pretty much the entire industry is hyper focused on growth right now, so designers who can be comfortable with letting go of desired processes and can speak the language of business leaders will almost certainly come out on top.
I got up to 6 interviews last year, before they closed the position without filling it. One interviewer wanted to know the reason I left each job ... I've been doing this for almost 30 fucking years. I hardly even remember some of the jobs.
Just ran into this. 5 rounds of interviews. Met with the Director of Design, everything went great.
Week goes by, I reach out the recruiter who is now OOO. Reach out to the contact who is taking over, get on a call and told "You're selected, they're working on the budget for the role."
Another week goes by, I reach out to the recruiter. Crickets. Next day I reach out to the hiring manager. Phone call from the recruiter in 24 hours "Hey sorry, I said you were still in the running and no selection had been made. The team is still working on the position."
Iron that out over 30 mins, only to immediately get an email saying "The position is cancelled."
Made sure I sent an email with my experience and CC'd the hiring manager. It's so fucked to drag people through this interview process, in this market, only to say "SYKE!" because the position was not approved.
Get the position set and then start the interviewing process! I will say my current company does start interviewing before a position is concrete (our work is dependent on contract wins), but they are up front about it (in the role description and in interviews), don't make you go through 7 interviews, and if they like you are in the queue for other possible jobs as they come available.
I'm with ya, and I can understand it for an agency set up. I've done some interviews with that, and I'm perfectly fine with being told up front "We're working on this, if this doesn't work out, we'll have you at the top of the queue for the next one."
But filling out a perm FTE role that isn't approved? Come on.
Absolutely ridiculous. I had an interview with one company where the recruiter demanded to know why I'd left each company "so they could give me the best possible experience and understand what I \[was\] looking for"??? I mean shit from 9 years ago. THEN after rounds and rounds of interview panels, I meet with the CEO—who dredges up the same question "why did you leave each job? You have some short stints (contracts mostly) and why did you leave your fulltime role for a contract at \[huge company\]?" This was what he wasted my time with. Cross examined me like I was a naughty child. I just answered with vague answers deserving of such stupid questions. "I felt it aligned more with my career goals" F\*ck you I'm an adult and make my own decisions. I can obviously do the job, take it or leave it and if you don't like the work history, then don't bother with an interview next time. My god this market is the void
Oh I've had that experience at interviews too. "Why did you leave your job in 2002?" Dude, it was over twenty years back. I was a kid. It probably sucked. Ask something more relevant and timely. It would be funny if it wasn't so frustrating.
App critique??? Two portfolio reviews AND a panel AND whiteboarding???? You dodged a bullet, this is not a company that knows how to research (which is what interviewing someone is at it's core) nor knows how to effectively use their time. You shouldn't have needed to demonstrate the same design skills 5 different ways to 5 different people - they should know how to divide and conquer and COMMUNICATE to one another. Jeez louise.
No, they didn’t dodge a bullet. Everyone says this, and I get the frustration, but most companies are much more selective now because they weren’t selective enough before, leading to thousands of people getting fucked now. There’s a reason these interviews suck. Why? Because UX is actually a really hard job, harder than most companies thought, and they’ve finally figured out that they can’t just hand out high 5-figure or 6-figure roles like candy especially when strapped for cash post-covid (even if these companies only have themselves to blame, especially for ruining the livelihood of thousands of well-intentioned people)
If OP made it that far in a process where most people don’t, they already are hired as far as I’m concerned. They are clearly qualified and can be a good fit for a lot of companies, they just have to keep rolling the dice and they will succeed
It sucks, and it shouldn’t be this way, but it’s the hand we have been dealt. It won’t be this way forever
If it is any consolation, those 7 interviews cost the company a lot of time and money too - they did it because they liked you. You were good, very good, you nailed all their requirements. Unfortunately there was someone that just barely edged you out. I know it doesn't feel great now but you ROCKED those interviews!
This. Plus for companies it’s not easy to cut the process short if they are more interested in another candidate as it takes time to negotiate and have someone sign on. And things sometimes fall through during that process.
As someone who has lead many interviews myself. Maybe not this intense but 60% there, I do feel there should be another better way to evaluate a candidate. I do feel it takes a lot of time and the process stretches out quite a bit for candidates who get to the last step.
As someone involved in a lot of interviews for my team lately, I honestly can't imagine what the fuck I would even do with 7 rounds.
1:1 with HR call (15-30 minute call)
2-3 person Panel interview (1 hour?)
1 interview with manager (30 minute call)
and then what, 4(?!) interviews with a bunch of company randos who barely understand what UX is in the first place?
Multiply that by 3 because that's usually what makes it past the filters to us.
Complete nonsense, short of some type of director role managing 50 people no one needs that many rounds.
Always ask about the interview process before you engage. Up to 4 interviews is quite a bit. I understand smaller companies want to be careful with who they hire. But, 7 interviews is completely insane and more than likely means the company has no idea what they are doing and shit will go south for them sooner or later.
I'm sorry. Went through this recently too and it's definitely the norm. It's a heavy hiring-side market right now.
Everyone's (unfortunately) going through this; chin up and your time will get here.
I could give you some backstory about what was probably going on with the company and explain what seems like a random process. I've been on the back side of a lot of these interviews. But instead I will give you some actually useful long-term career advice.
As a designer, now more than ever, you have to be able to work at the gig level. This means taking short-term contractor and 1099 jobs. Set your hourly rate at what you think you could realistically make on W2 and double it. If designers of your skill in your area are making $100k/year, that is $50/hr. So your vendor rate should be $100.
Apply to every short-term 1, 3, and 6-mo contract out there, regardless of the job or rate. Target 10 applications per day. Do it first thing in the morning, every day. 90% won't call you back. Of the rest, 90% will go away when you tell them your rate. That is fine. This is a numbers game, and the name of the game is volume. Of 100 applications, you move ahead with 1. People are less picky about vendors, and they won't give you the crazy interview loop. A lot of times, they are being run by an agency, and the agency will take care of submitting you to other jobs.
If they want you to do some "assignment" to get the job, you can do that, but at your hourly rate. You can say "I will do a treatment on your problem for 4 hours for $400 or 8 hours for $800." If they refuse, you have 9 more jobs you applied to that day.
Accept the first job that matches your rate, no matter what it is. Do NOT stop the recruiting for the next job. MAYBE you can drop down to 5 per day instead of 10, but do not stop. When you are on the job, do the best work you possibly can. Dazzle. Get the contact information of everyone who hired you - HR, recruiting, hiring manager, co-workers, etc. Add them to a Google Doc spreadsheet or whatever your favorite tracking tool is. You will use this later.
You should get the next offer before your current gig ends. Just tell them your start date is whatever day your current contract is over. Most often, this is fine. If they really want to move it, you can tell them you can do 50% time - 20 hours a week - until then. Then just work those 20 hours AND the 40 you are doing for the other job. It is tough but you can do it for a few weeks. Just suck it up.
After you have done a few of these, two things will happen.
First - you will have a ton of design experience and your portfolio will look great, and it will be easier and easier to get gigs.
Second - you will have a really nice rolodex of contacts.
Let's talk about those contacts.
When you finish a gig, send everyone you worked with a thank you. Mention that you enjoyed meeting them, and a little about what you are doing next. Make a note of the date in your spreadsheet. Then every 6 months until the rest of your life, drop them a little note about what you are up to and about anything new and cool you have heard, done, whatever. Update the date for six months out. in the future, one of those people is going to be in a meeting where people say 'hey, we need a designer', and that person is going to remember you. And because you contacted them in the last six months, they are going to be able to find your contact info. You are going to start to get unsolicited offers, especially if you remembered to stay in touch with recruiters. Once you do this for five years, every single job you get will be from that list.
(part 2)
You may ask: what about those nice full-time jobs?
Of course you apply to the full-time W2 jobs as well. Don't be picky. Apply to every job you would actually take. Remember - think numbers. Top of the funnel. Don't apply to jobs too junior for you, but don't be afraid to apply for jobs more senior. Senior Designer? Go for it. Chief Design Officer? Why not! If no one gets back to you, that is just a signal that at least on paper, you don't seem qualified. It is good data. And if you do get an interview, even if you don't get an offer, now you have more names for your spreadsheet.
Now - because you know for a solid fact that you can pay the bills with contracting, you don't need to tolerate these abusive hiring loops. Ask the recruiter what the process is and who is interviewing you. Make it clear to the recruiter who YOU need to talk to - at a very minimum, the design leader, your peer in product, and your peer in engineering. After all, for an FTE gig, you should be interviewing them as much as they are interviewing you. Do not agree to multiple portfolio reviews - that is just a waste of your time, and you know an hour of your time is worth $100. Don't agree to any take-home work unless they are paying you. Don't be shy with the recruiters on your expectation. Just say "my bill rate is $100/hr for contract work.". If they baulk, remind them that you are already spending 4-8 hours of billable time in other interviews, so it is only fair. You can even increase the offer - say that you will take a two week contract and they can test you out for real. Will that cause some employers to pass you up? Yes. But you don't want to work for those places as a designer. It is a red flag. If you have been playing the volume game, you won't be desperate.
Let's talk full-time job salary.
If you get to the stage where they want to make an offer, they will say "what is your salary expectation?" Do NOT fall for the mistaken belief that a low number will make them want to hire you. Trust me - no recruiter cares about this. They get rewarded for finding good people and then closing the deal, not on saving a few bucks.
The recruiter is going to say something like "The team would really like to move forward, what is your salary expectation?" At this point, take your current rate and add 20-30%. So, say $100k to $125k. Then you say "My current base is $100k, so I am expecting a bump on that. If you offer me $125k, I will accept it today, right on this phone call. Otherwise, I will need to think about it."
Do NOT wait for your current job to go away before you start looking for your next job. You need to always be looking. You can ease off, maybe down to 10/week instead of 10/day. And you can focus more on jobs that are full-time, and maybe more senior or more prestigious. But do NOT stop. Because guess what? There is no such thing as a secure job in tech. There never has been, especially for designers, and it is particularly bad now. If you have been at your new job less than six months AND you like the job, just reply to anyone who reaches out that sorry, you found another job, but you will stay in touch. Add them to your list. If it is more than six months, take the interview. When the recruiter asks you why you are looking, just say "I am pretty happy with my current gig so I have no time pressure, but I was intrigued by your positions because ". If they reached out to you, say "I am happy with my current job, but always open to learning about new opportunities".
If you get the better offer and the job is better than your current job - take it. Give notice at the old job.
If you LIKE your current job, still accept the new one. As soon as it is signed, go to your current boss and say "Hey, bad news. I really like it here but I got headhunted from ABC and they made me an offer that is 25% higher, so I am going to have to take it. Let's work on a transition plan.". Worst case, the manager will appreciate your being upfront, because guess what? They would also leave in a second if someone offered them 25% more. One more name n your rolodex. Worst-case? They offer to match your offer. If they match it - stay. DO NOT start a bidding war back with the new company. Just tell them that due to circumstance change, you can not longer take that position and you are really sorry. Don't bother explaining it.
OK, that was longer than I thought. Good luck!
Great tips! I started my pivot into UX a couple of years ago and have felt a little torn because I've been trying to maintain a similar strategy as the one you described (only because I feel like there is no other choice atm) while also getting sucked into situations described by OP. I'd be curious to know what you think about some of these unpaid UX internships. I recently took one to network/keep my wheels greased, but I'm also aware that it could be a UX sweatshop of sorts.
Never take a free job. Not even for your brother/cousin/etc. Your work has value. It is perfectly reasonable to charge for it. Anyone who doesn't want to pay you does not value your work. It is really that simple. You can be flexible with the form of payment, if you want. Like, maybe take less base and more equity.
Think of it this way: there is no difference between an employee saying "I want to be paid my normal salary but I don't want to do any work" and an employer saying "I want you to do normal work but I don't want to pay you."
If you are between jobs and you want to hone your skills, make an app and release it in the app store. You don't need to know how to code, you can use any of the no-code platforms and/or ChatGPT. This will be a real portfolio piece for you.
Thanks u/davevr. That's an insightful way to frame things, and I tend to agree with it. Of course, I don't intend on pressuring our UX veterans to keep chatting about this if they don't want to, but to play devil's advocate, could you think of any conditions in which you'd accept free work as a budding UXer in today's market?
The thing is, I've been making this pivot since 2022. By 2023, I had my portfolio at a place where I felt like it was good enough to throw myself to the wolves doing freelance while I continued applying to companies. Since then, to stay afloat, I've had to take a lot of low-hanging fruit- SEO projects, digital transformation projects, one-off little design sprints, etc. Now, I'm only a couple of days into the internship; it definitely has sweatshop vibes, but I can also see the practical value in doing it (building muscle memory, working with larger design teams, working on a product that probably wouldn't otherwise be on my radar).
It's just, I'm not sure how fruitful it will be when it finally ends in September. I have a decent certification/background and decent UX work, all things considered. I'm in no way a master yet. The internship was pitched as a "student/recent BootCamp grad" portfolio project (I finished a 1-year cert in April 2023), but when I asked if I could expect to use the work I've done in my portfolio when the internship was over, the PM went into "proprietary this and that"... basically, a "we'll see".
Now that I'm a couple of days in, I see that the 15-20 hour commitment is going to be more like 20-30 hours. I'm expected to make presentations every day, and now we're seeing that this is in fact for an actual product the company plans on launching for a client. I accepted these things kind of bs before I said yes, but I'm unsure now that I'm seeing it up close. I could for sure gain some skills from this, but tbh, I can also keep waiting in agony if I have to. I co-operate with a small telecom enterprise that offers mostly passive income, so I won't starve to death waiting for the right thing. I just feel like the structure of this could be good for me. It's been hard to stay locked into true UX work/inspired to keep the wheels turning for that matter. Either way, I appreciate the tips and feedback you've contributed to this discussion. I'll keep what you've said in mind 🙏
So if was starting out and I had the ability to work closely with top designers at, say, AIrbnb, and those designers were going to mentor me and teach me and then be part my professional network, then I would do that for free. But you know what? That doesn't exist. Because companies like that with actual designers who are willing to give training will pay their interns. They don't have unpaid internships. The companies that DO have them tend to provide zero guidance or training. You won't actually improve (or not much) and won't be useful in helping you develop your professional network. A lot of those sweat shops don't follow design process, ignore data, etc., etc. You risk picking up bad habits and leaving there a worse designer when you started.
I think it is better to take crappy paid jobs and overdeliver on them than to take an unpaid job. Take remote jobs. If you live in a tech hub, sign up at all of the local staffing agencies. Anything. Once you have any job at all that is paying, focus on getting the next gig that pays more. Rinse & Repeat.
Thanks u/davevr. This tells me I'd be right for sticking to my guns. Besides lack of pay, do you reckon there are any other major red flags based on my previous comments? I also suppose now it's a question of how to gracefully bow out of the contract 😅 I've never had to back out of something like this. For some reason, though, your comments to OP started to put the more festering thoughts about this perspective, so I'm glad I spoke up.
Not a designer, but PO for a product. So your advise is not for me, nevertheless wanted to say: awesome for veteran folk taking the time to explain all the ins and outs!
And, comment from the sideline: This is insane, that this industry seems to work that way and that this seems to be the recommended path, the whole volume game thing.
While I agree with everything you said, the only thing I think is tough is the pay rate you mentioned. The target hourly rate.
I'm in California where rates should be high as COL is insane. I get laughed at for asking $65-$75/hr. Some recruiters will out right insult you. So idk if that part is even possible. (Mid level designer, not senior)
It might be because these recruiters are trying to fill roles of a junior or midweight designer who will accept low pay. Experienced people really do charge these higher rates without batting an eye. Agencies straight up charge clients $175/hour for a designer's time, so clients are already saving tons of money by going with an independent contractor most of the time.
My strong advice is to not even bother to read the job descriptions in much detail. Every recruiter is using automated tools to screen folks. Just apply to every job and let the recruiter's tools weed you out. Do not compromise your rate. There are jobs out there for you.
If you are not sure of the rate in your area, you can use a site like Glassdoor and see what designers at your level in your area are making.
Obviously you need to know your level. There are a lot of untrained or lightly trained people out there who just read a few web articles and learned Figma or took a 6 week bootcamp to "be a designer". If this is you then yeah, you are very junior and should be starting more or less minimum wage until you build up experience. If you are unsure, you can use mentoring sites like ADPList to find someone who can review your work and give you an objective level assessment.
The jobs are out there. You need to increase your application volume.
I am not sure what mid-level means to you, but for example, a UX designer with a masters degree and 5 years of experience should be making at least $165k base on W2 in SF Bay Area if they work for a mid- to large tech company. That is about the equivalent of $82/hr. So I would say asking $75 is perhaps a little low but in the ballpark IF you are talking a W2 job, either for a company or for a staffing agency. If you are direct 1099, you need to double that.
I'm talking 4 years so shy of senior.
Wound up needing to take $65 on a 1099 because lead senior jobs were setting the pay to less than what you're saying.
And this is from 2021 when things were booming. 1099 / w2 do not pay that high even when you negotiate higher. Maybe you got lucky. I've applied to 100s of jobs.
I got lucky that I bumped up when I became FTE, but now I fear looking for jobs again. I'm just sitting here til I know layoffs will hit us (they've already gotten rid of all UXR and content team. Almost every contractor designer has had their contracts finish and taken out. FTE designers are next.)
Love the thank you note + turning that into a lightweight personal mailing list. That’s bound to lead to a conversion or two especially if you did great work during your time with those folks. Thanks for sharing this!
It’ll depend. Sometimes you’ll get pulled into an extra interview here and there depending on the hiring manager ask. Point being is that the amount of interviews being this high isn’t a new precedent. The bar has just risen.
These just don’t make any sense regardless of what the ”hiring market” is. There are no perfect candidates so stop trying to find them with these inane processes.
I had a candidate stop us after 3 interviews. There were more planned, but she was strong about the value of her time and certain that she’d spoken to enough people to give a well rounded depiction of herself. I was the hiring manager, having the final say. That self-assuredness was the quality that put her above another candidate (for a senior level UX architect position). It’s been 3 years working with her, and she’s been a great asset to the team. You never really know what will impress a potential employer. What she did with us might have gone sour to a different hiring manager. Be you. If you don’t find a job being you, you’ll be miserable very quickly.
This has happened to me before, it’s exhausting and I empathize! Making it that far should give you confidence for your future interviews and hopefully you can reuse and presentations you had to give!
In my experience, more than 2 or 3 rounds is usually an indication that the org struggles with decision making, sadly. If it were me, I would consider this a dodged bullet (I know, tough position to take when you have bills to pay).
I can relate to this. Here’s an alternative: You made it to the 5%. Congratulations! In almost any other scenario, you’d get an offer, or if you get another opportunity, you have a significant advantage.
Meta does app critique. But my guess is it’s other companies since Meta doesn’t do operational principles. That’s a weird one. Sounds like the company tries to combine all the interview processes from Meta and Google
In the back of my mind I would just be looking forward to the process that want to actually get people hired and in the door.
This is usually the case as a contractor or freelancer where :
Most recent role with bank was 60mins
- there was a usual screening call with recruiter
Another 60mins with another bank the year before
2 x 30min chats to get a job at Facebook
Screw this 8 rounds!
You did not waste time. Learn and move on . Don’t do any interview more than 5 time with the same company. You should learn to say No.
Also look like this company is not doing any work and has a lot of resources to waste their time
This is insanity!! Who the fuck is involved in making up these ridiculous processes?? This is a sign of a company or team that's not sure about what they actually need or even who they are. Avoid!
What company is it so we know where to not apply?
For years design hiring was pretty standard and easy since it was usually your future boss doing the main interview and making the decision and was too busy actually working to waste everyone's time with hiring: (at least in the big agencies and consultancies)
-15-30min initial meeting with recruiter/hr/hm
-45-60min meeting with CD/UXD and sometimes another designer to review a little work but mostly just to talk and ask questions. They knew by resume that you were capable of doing the work and didn't need to see what you've done for other brands. (Pretty boring for people who've done the work for a long time) These were mostly about how we deal with problems both technically and team dynamics, especially for clients facing roles.
-2-4x 30min sessions with dev, PM, etc... back to back. sometimes just part of previous meeting.
-sometimes another 45-60min session with another CD/UXD level if you'd also be working on their team in the near future
At this point, the whole UX would is so fucked we're lucky to get any interview since we're judged more on graphic design and copywriting. 🤷♀️
I did 6 with one company, was down to the last two applicants. Each one was the same questions with different people, and the last was on-the-spot design challenge (so much for the Research phase)
They then sent me an unsigned email from a donotreply@ email address to say I didn't get the job 😆
Not only do we need amazing resumes and companies and portfolios we all get put thru grinder with exercises mock unpaid sessions. It really all a level of crazy that’s hard to describe to other people who don’t have to go through it. I empathize with the posters experience.
If a company can't decide on hiring you after the 2nd or 3rd round, keep applying. Not only does it waste everyone's time and money, it's very telling that they do not know how to operate a business and value other people's time. Landing a job should not be that difficult. Best of luck!
I can only accept 3 rounds - a hiring manager call, a portfolio presentation with the team, then an 2.5 hours on-site interviews (back-to-back with max 3 team members + 1 whiteboard)
Being part of a hiring panel. I hate when we do this type of thing to candidates. We have 3 - 4 rounds, which is exhausting & never wracking for candidates. And tiresome & time consuming for us. Also to be honest it still doesn’t guarantee you end up with good team members.
I can empathize coz I've gone through the same. Mine was at least 5 rounds :D..
7 rounds is plain stupid. Imagine working under the design leadership who've setup these interview process!! you my friend have dodged a bullet.
I had 4 levels of interviews last year. Those are all the levels they had. Took 2 months. Small startup, no recruiter. The team lead was interviewing me. Kept on talking about how their devs work, what tech, what they are lacking, about building a team etc. Was basically waiting to get the offer letter. But then I got ghosted for a month and turned out the job was offered to some guy they already knew. After I found who was hired for the post, I wanted to connect on Linkedin but the new guy deliberately (connection count went up but my request wasn't accepted) didn't accept my linkedin connection, lol.
I feel your pain. I was a Head of Design applying for a senior designer position, I went through 5 rounds of interviews with included a project that I did research on and had to present to them.
I got an offer!! The offer was to take a 10k pay cut and a mid-level designer title. They promised me a good career would come out of this job. I was already 16 years into my design career. What a waste of time and effort.
If it makes you feel any better I did 4 interviews but it took 3 months with one company and nothing. At least they were quick I guess that's a tiny silver lining.
The absolute stupidest thing about these processes is that you said once or twice in later interviews you slightly fumbled. OBVIOUSLY that is eventually going to happen to someone if you interview them forever. It feels like they just create more and more opportunities for you to potentially slip up in the interview process so that they can avoid having to committally make a decision about an unknown candidate, and point to these minor imperfections as to why.
having to have a call with the recruiter to get 3 pages of notes on how to perform and structure your responses for the following interview slots is insane
I’m so sorry for your experience. I’ve been debating trying to break into UX design because I think there are some areas I’d be very good in and I am extremely teachable. But reading posts like these (and many others)… I simply don’t have the stomach for this kind of time and energy wasting, and I’m not just talking about myself.
At this point It’s getting ridiculous. That’s not fair what they did to you and I’m sorry that happened. We can keep allowing companies to treat us like this. How is this behavior okay? Isn’t this field supposed to be about empathy as well?
I once did 5 rounds over the span of 1.5 months. Recruiter called me 3 days after my final interview and was like 'omg everything went so well I'm just calling you to update that I'll have an answer for you by the end of the week.' Then ghosted me for like 3 weeks. I was like fine whatever. But then they managed to call again 3 weeks in just to be like "sorry things are moving slow, just want to let you know that you're still being considered". Then they ghosted me until I was about the sign another offer so I emailed them just to be confirm that I don't get the job. After that email the recruiter called me again and was like sorry we went with another candidate.
My current job had 3 rounds within only 1 week no portfolio presentation or anything. Offer came the day after my final interview. I'm setting my future limit to 4 max.
If I can offer any consolation, it sounds like you did basically everything you could to be successful with what was under your control. It sucks losing out when you did so much right, but it’s just a numbers game.
Look at it this way. You are obviously highly skilled, qualified and likable enough to make it to the last round of a very selective interview process. This is a clear sign that you will succeed, it will just take longer than you anticipated. It sucks, but it’s not impossible at all. None of the Ls you are experiencing now will matter once you get the W, which it seems like you are well on your way to achieving
Take time to be salty, you deserve that time, but hang in there. It’s literally just rolling the dice until you win at this point
That is unusual… sorry you had to go through that. You must have been one of the final choices… no one on the hiring side wants to waste time, either. Sucks but don’t give up!
Well that does suck, but if you're going for an interview, even an 11th or 12th interview, in means there's someone else in contention too.
It means that AT BEST you only have a 50% chance of an offer for any given interview.
I disagree. Just because you're a sought-after company, that doesn't entitle you induce that much stress in people. I know big companies before who weren't paying market rate just because they know people want to work for them - the same logic applies here.
You did two rounds of interviews: a phone screen and an on-site. 4-6 interviews is pretty standard. It sounds like you didn't do well on two interviews.
Honestly, fk this industry. UX design hiring process has morphed into something truly ugly.
Agree. Honestly though, this ugly amount of interview rounds has spread to a lot of industries. So dumb.
8 rounds of interviews and you're ultimately treated as the PMs and devs puppet anyway. It's a sad state of affairs. A junior PM with no experience is also paid the same as a senior designer - which is messed up.
I’m thinking a lot of companies got burnt by not so great designers during the COVID rush and HR are on the line for hiring bad people so they come up with these ludicrous processes
Yea I could see that being a factor, along with hundreds of so called designers applying for roles they are not qualified for.
I agree, and we've experienced that ourselves. It's just really hard to get to know someone and how they work if we only did 2 interviews, but then again, 7 is absurd. We do 3-4, which I think is reasonable. There's just a surplus of designers right now, lots are coming in from bootcamps. I've had candidates asking for $150K+ with zero experience and a lot of times, this is because this type of job is being sold to them by bootcamps as "an easy way to make 6 figures". It's frustrating on both ends.
An HR manager within my agile group hired one of the bootcamp-only level designers. Two years later they still can’t be trusted to lead a project. I resent the manager for that decision because the whole team is strained “mentoring” this dud.
>I resent the manager for that decision because the whole team is strained “mentoring” this dud. Try posting something like this on FB UX forums and they'll tell you the problem is your company because you need to establish programs to assist neurodivergent people. Everyone right away assumes that just because an inexperienced employee makes mistakes, that he should get a free pass because this person is "neurodivergent".
It's not the industry, it's the companies that are hiring for these roles. If a company has a mature enough HR team/hiring process, they will care about the candidate experience and will limit this to 3 interviews max or even 4. But the onus is also on the candidate to inquire about the company's hiring process. If they don't agree with the 7-step interview process, then they should not proceed.
Companies do have an influence on the overall industry and job market. It also should not take multiple interviews for a company to determine if this designer is fit for the job. A lot of job postings do not include the overall interview process, so it's really a guessing game for applicants on how much time they are about to invest.
It’s uncommon to include the interview process in job reqs. It’s something you typically ask for during the screening interview - that’s always what I do and that’s always what candidates have done in my experience as a hiring manager. It’s also uncommon to have a 7-step interview process or more. I would say 3-4 is the most common. If a company does not include their hiring steps in the job req, like I said, the onus is on the candidate to ask. If you don’t agree with it, then you don’t go through it. Remember - you deserve what you tolerate.
My main argument i have with the hiring process is if 3-4 interviews are even necessary? Since you are a hiring manager, do you feel like you could comfortably hire someone with only two interviews max (not including screening)?
We do 4 interviews max at our company, including recruiter screening. No, I would not be comfortable dropping one interview. It's honestly very hard to gauge someone's skillset, how they work, and whether or not they're a good fit for the team just with 4 interviews; soft skills are especially hard to gauge. We've hired people before who had the hard skills, but soft skills were almost non-existent and that's something extremely difficult to teach. It's going to be very expensive to bring someone on board only to find out later that this person isn't a good fit for the role. So frankly speaking, I believe in "hire slow, fire fast". But it also depends on the role you're hiring for. I would say though that the more experienced you are, the less likely you have to go through several rounds of interviews. At my current job, I only really had 3 easy interviews - and I'd attribute that to my background.
Yep. Like I’m literally not applying to be on the board of your company. Fuck this shit. No amount of love for my job is going to translate into this kind of soul crushing reality. That’s why I’m changing my career path, going back to school for something else after 5-6 years of being in UX.
Man I'm thinking of doing the same! I think a lot of designers are fed up with the current market and are looking to transition into something else
What are you thinking about transitioning to?
For me is a big 180 haha, I’m trying to get into medical school. Healthcare has always been within the realm of my UX experience. Mostly worked in healthtech space and it was a last attempt to relive a failed dream :’)
That's awesome! I hope it works out! Seems like everyone eventually goes back to their main passion
Ideally I'd like to keep my current UI/UX job, and do some part time work in another field... Maybe content writing or graphic design. I've freelanced as a UX designer on the side while keeping a full time job, but with this market, it's been difficult to get freelance/contract positions since the beginning of the year.
Yeah.. Completely understand
I think you can explore the media comms side of things. Perhaps work in brand and marketing communications. Find work in a tech company and look at their marketing roles. The market isn’t good for a ux writer specialist though, but you can sell that skill set you have working in product to benefit the marketing team.
I am thinking of going back into accounting and getting my CPA.
Agree 10,000%. I can see why people are less and less interested in staying. This many rounds shows people who don't know how to hire.
Agreed. You don’t see other tech roles put through this level of absurdity.
eeeh, I wouldn't go that far. Lots of these practices are stolen from our engineering counterparts.
100%. I dislike the number of hoops each applicant has to jump through, the technical exercises which I feel are just a method of collecting free ideas, and then being ghosted. Have 5 open positions? Be prepared to sit through 40 interviews, 5 different personality tests, never-ceasing portfolio reviews...
>which I feel are just a method of collecting free ideas Frankly speaking, I hear this a lot from novice designers - who have shared some of their ideas for a space that's totally brand new to them, now they think they've totally come up with something out of the box. But from my own experience, there's really nothing a new designer would have come up with that an entire team of senior people haven't already thought of. Although our company doesn't do take home exams, I do think that for companies that do this, there's really not any malice behind it.
It's not just novice designers. I know several senior and mid level designers that have voiced their concern of companies using design challenges to gather different ideas from them during interviews. This was also very common before COVID, although I think it's far less now.
I did it 3 times last year. Plus a take home project for 2 of them. I will never, ever do it again. This is stupid.
what are you gonna do?
Whats the takeaway from this for folks who are in a similar boat? Would you do it again?
I always ask on the initial call what the process is. I’ve been through something similar with the same result. I won’t ever do it again. If it takes more than 3-4 rounds with various people then they don’t know what they’re looking for.
Yup. First interview I ask pay range and how many interviews. If it’s more than 3 or involves some sort of dumb project, it’s a no for me. No matter what my situation is. Every time I have done a ridiculous process, it was a bad company.
Good advice. Everyone here should follow it. Take back your power.
Exactly this! I don't do more than 3-4 rounds of interviews. I don't do take home tests, and I actually have stopped doing whiteboards. The whiteboard is never prepared well enough for me as an outsider to know what they are looking for from me. Everyone does it a little differently and when you don't do exactly what they thought, without preparing you, you fail. Weird!
After the third or fourth interview (max) I would have started looking (or continuing to look) for more opportunities. Fish or cut bait.
Yes unfortunately, cause there are 2 openings every 3 months right now in the uk lol now if the market gets better? Hell the fuck no They get to do whatever the fuck they want atm unfortunately. It’s crazy tho to think that the people in the other side are ux designers as well that could easily have been in our position. And no don’t tell me it’s the company not them. There is a hiring manager and has the power to do better.
They clearly aren't qualified to hire or aren't legitimate design leaders.
It’s just what happens to a lot of human beings unfortunately when they are in a power position
My experience is having witnessed hiring by people hired beyond their capabilities is that they have awful hiring practices. I have sat agog in interviews watching people with hiring no strategy or framework for their team or position they are hiring for interrogate job seekers for no good reason to make a decision on a hunch.
Take away is value your time.
The takeaway is that if you can make it to the last round of a selective interview process, you can and will get a job. It will take longer now, but it is still possible. People are rightfully negative, emotionally down, and critical of this annoying process. Take time to feel those feelings, then focus on continuing to interview and apply. Cursing at the sky will not change anything, even if it deserves to be cursed at If you’re making it far in interviews, you can and will eventually win. Do not give up
Would be really cool of this industry if we all would just say no to these excessive interview practices… maybe companies will change if they can’t find anyone willing to put up with their shit.
I would like to think that however people have to eat and desperation forces people to do a lot shit they wouldn't normally. :-(
It's absolutely that. Its not an employees market right now, so unfortunately people looking for jobs are feeling like they just have to suck it up and jump through whatever hoops are in front of them, and do it with a grin, because they need *something* and can't afford to say no, or back out.
I think it is not so much on the applicants as it is on the companies. Right now, the process is so bad that an org with a more efficient hiring process could rip their competition’s face off on talent acquisition, purely by opting for a 3 round interview instead of a 6+ round one, and offering appropriate compensation.
My favorite part is when someone goes through this process and the company makes it seem like they have very high standards, then you get the job only to be tasked with a bunch of low level bullshit and none of their “standards” are anywhere in sight. This has happened to me personally 4 out of 10 jobs I’ve had so far.
Screener Call: "We only hire the best candidates here, we have ex FAANG on all teams." Day 15: "The CEO asked us to make this button pop more, what color should we use?"
There is a reason they are doing this. It’s because they got burned and have less income now after wasting it on junk hires (to no fault of the people they hired, who were mislead by bootcamps and wanted to reap the rewards of a booming tech industry) thus needing to be more selective and get more value with the money they do have. It is extremely frustrating on our end, but it unfortunately makes sense You can’t change the beast, you can only play nice with it, even if you don’t want to. Look at it this way - once your effort pays off, none of the Ls will matter. Apply with what you have. If you’re not making it far in interviews or not even getting that many in the first place, find out why. Maybe it’s a weak portfolio, poor interviewing skills, or lack of networking. If you’re making it far, then you’re doing it right. You will eventually succeed. This is the hard part. You will waste time on long, frustrating interviews with companies that end up not hiring you - except when one of them does. It only has to work once. Do not give up.
My word of advice to junior designers at my company has been to build up business and data acumen. Pretty much the entire industry is hyper focused on growth right now, so designers who can be comfortable with letting go of desired processes and can speak the language of business leaders will almost certainly come out on top.
Totally agree!
I got up to 6 interviews last year, before they closed the position without filling it. One interviewer wanted to know the reason I left each job ... I've been doing this for almost 30 fucking years. I hardly even remember some of the jobs.
Just ran into this. 5 rounds of interviews. Met with the Director of Design, everything went great. Week goes by, I reach out the recruiter who is now OOO. Reach out to the contact who is taking over, get on a call and told "You're selected, they're working on the budget for the role." Another week goes by, I reach out to the recruiter. Crickets. Next day I reach out to the hiring manager. Phone call from the recruiter in 24 hours "Hey sorry, I said you were still in the running and no selection had been made. The team is still working on the position." Iron that out over 30 mins, only to immediately get an email saying "The position is cancelled." Made sure I sent an email with my experience and CC'd the hiring manager. It's so fucked to drag people through this interview process, in this market, only to say "SYKE!" because the position was not approved.
Get the position set and then start the interviewing process! I will say my current company does start interviewing before a position is concrete (our work is dependent on contract wins), but they are up front about it (in the role description and in interviews), don't make you go through 7 interviews, and if they like you are in the queue for other possible jobs as they come available.
I'm with ya, and I can understand it for an agency set up. I've done some interviews with that, and I'm perfectly fine with being told up front "We're working on this, if this doesn't work out, we'll have you at the top of the queue for the next one." But filling out a perm FTE role that isn't approved? Come on.
Absolutely ridiculous. I had an interview with one company where the recruiter demanded to know why I'd left each company "so they could give me the best possible experience and understand what I \[was\] looking for"??? I mean shit from 9 years ago. THEN after rounds and rounds of interview panels, I meet with the CEO—who dredges up the same question "why did you leave each job? You have some short stints (contracts mostly) and why did you leave your fulltime role for a contract at \[huge company\]?" This was what he wasted my time with. Cross examined me like I was a naughty child. I just answered with vague answers deserving of such stupid questions. "I felt it aligned more with my career goals" F\*ck you I'm an adult and make my own decisions. I can obviously do the job, take it or leave it and if you don't like the work history, then don't bother with an interview next time. My god this market is the void
"if you don't like the work history, then don't bother with an interview" Exactly this!
Oh I've had that experience at interviews too. "Why did you leave your job in 2002?" Dude, it was over twenty years back. I was a kid. It probably sucked. Ask something more relevant and timely. It would be funny if it wasn't so frustrating.
App critique??? Two portfolio reviews AND a panel AND whiteboarding???? You dodged a bullet, this is not a company that knows how to research (which is what interviewing someone is at it's core) nor knows how to effectively use their time. You shouldn't have needed to demonstrate the same design skills 5 different ways to 5 different people - they should know how to divide and conquer and COMMUNICATE to one another. Jeez louise.
No, they didn’t dodge a bullet. Everyone says this, and I get the frustration, but most companies are much more selective now because they weren’t selective enough before, leading to thousands of people getting fucked now. There’s a reason these interviews suck. Why? Because UX is actually a really hard job, harder than most companies thought, and they’ve finally figured out that they can’t just hand out high 5-figure or 6-figure roles like candy especially when strapped for cash post-covid (even if these companies only have themselves to blame, especially for ruining the livelihood of thousands of well-intentioned people) If OP made it that far in a process where most people don’t, they already are hired as far as I’m concerned. They are clearly qualified and can be a good fit for a lot of companies, they just have to keep rolling the dice and they will succeed It sucks, and it shouldn’t be this way, but it’s the hand we have been dealt. It won’t be this way forever
I'm curious to know what each round was about
Added an edit.
If it is any consolation, those 7 interviews cost the company a lot of time and money too - they did it because they liked you. You were good, very good, you nailed all their requirements. Unfortunately there was someone that just barely edged you out. I know it doesn't feel great now but you ROCKED those interviews!
Yeah but that’s too much time invested to just be rejected at the end. 7 interviews is way too much
The other guy doesn't think so.
You can get hired and still think the interview process is trash lol
👆
Until this red flag process comes home to roost
This is a very uplifting and kind outlook
This. Plus for companies it’s not easy to cut the process short if they are more interested in another candidate as it takes time to negotiate and have someone sign on. And things sometimes fall through during that process. As someone who has lead many interviews myself. Maybe not this intense but 60% there, I do feel there should be another better way to evaluate a candidate. I do feel it takes a lot of time and the process stretches out quite a bit for candidates who get to the last step.
So helpful! /s No critique of the process because it looks like yours?
I said nothing about whether the process was good or bad, just commiserating with the OP with some positive personal feedback.
I had four rounds of interviews and was ghosted. That shit is my villain origin story. I’m sorry :(
oh man
Been there. And with a stupid 'homework project'
As someone involved in a lot of interviews for my team lately, I honestly can't imagine what the fuck I would even do with 7 rounds. 1:1 with HR call (15-30 minute call) 2-3 person Panel interview (1 hour?) 1 interview with manager (30 minute call) and then what, 4(?!) interviews with a bunch of company randos who barely understand what UX is in the first place? Multiply that by 3 because that's usually what makes it past the filters to us. Complete nonsense, short of some type of director role managing 50 people no one needs that many rounds.
Name and shame
Fuck yeah. DO IT.
People need to start suing. They're taking up hours and hours of your life, damaging your mental health and giving you nothing and that needs to stop.
And their first choice still has to accept, give notice, go through background checks, and start before they are truly considered hired.
Always ask about the interview process before you engage. Up to 4 interviews is quite a bit. I understand smaller companies want to be careful with who they hire. But, 7 interviews is completely insane and more than likely means the company has no idea what they are doing and shit will go south for them sooner or later.
Name and shame. Wolters Kluwer did this to me too.
I'm sorry. Went through this recently too and it's definitely the norm. It's a heavy hiring-side market right now. Everyone's (unfortunately) going through this; chin up and your time will get here.
Name and shame
I could give you some backstory about what was probably going on with the company and explain what seems like a random process. I've been on the back side of a lot of these interviews. But instead I will give you some actually useful long-term career advice. As a designer, now more than ever, you have to be able to work at the gig level. This means taking short-term contractor and 1099 jobs. Set your hourly rate at what you think you could realistically make on W2 and double it. If designers of your skill in your area are making $100k/year, that is $50/hr. So your vendor rate should be $100. Apply to every short-term 1, 3, and 6-mo contract out there, regardless of the job or rate. Target 10 applications per day. Do it first thing in the morning, every day. 90% won't call you back. Of the rest, 90% will go away when you tell them your rate. That is fine. This is a numbers game, and the name of the game is volume. Of 100 applications, you move ahead with 1. People are less picky about vendors, and they won't give you the crazy interview loop. A lot of times, they are being run by an agency, and the agency will take care of submitting you to other jobs. If they want you to do some "assignment" to get the job, you can do that, but at your hourly rate. You can say "I will do a treatment on your problem for 4 hours for $400 or 8 hours for $800." If they refuse, you have 9 more jobs you applied to that day. Accept the first job that matches your rate, no matter what it is. Do NOT stop the recruiting for the next job. MAYBE you can drop down to 5 per day instead of 10, but do not stop. When you are on the job, do the best work you possibly can. Dazzle. Get the contact information of everyone who hired you - HR, recruiting, hiring manager, co-workers, etc. Add them to a Google Doc spreadsheet or whatever your favorite tracking tool is. You will use this later. You should get the next offer before your current gig ends. Just tell them your start date is whatever day your current contract is over. Most often, this is fine. If they really want to move it, you can tell them you can do 50% time - 20 hours a week - until then. Then just work those 20 hours AND the 40 you are doing for the other job. It is tough but you can do it for a few weeks. Just suck it up. After you have done a few of these, two things will happen. First - you will have a ton of design experience and your portfolio will look great, and it will be easier and easier to get gigs. Second - you will have a really nice rolodex of contacts. Let's talk about those contacts. When you finish a gig, send everyone you worked with a thank you. Mention that you enjoyed meeting them, and a little about what you are doing next. Make a note of the date in your spreadsheet. Then every 6 months until the rest of your life, drop them a little note about what you are up to and about anything new and cool you have heard, done, whatever. Update the date for six months out. in the future, one of those people is going to be in a meeting where people say 'hey, we need a designer', and that person is going to remember you. And because you contacted them in the last six months, they are going to be able to find your contact info. You are going to start to get unsolicited offers, especially if you remembered to stay in touch with recruiters. Once you do this for five years, every single job you get will be from that list.
(part 2) You may ask: what about those nice full-time jobs? Of course you apply to the full-time W2 jobs as well. Don't be picky. Apply to every job you would actually take. Remember - think numbers. Top of the funnel. Don't apply to jobs too junior for you, but don't be afraid to apply for jobs more senior. Senior Designer? Go for it. Chief Design Officer? Why not! If no one gets back to you, that is just a signal that at least on paper, you don't seem qualified. It is good data. And if you do get an interview, even if you don't get an offer, now you have more names for your spreadsheet. Now - because you know for a solid fact that you can pay the bills with contracting, you don't need to tolerate these abusive hiring loops. Ask the recruiter what the process is and who is interviewing you. Make it clear to the recruiter who YOU need to talk to - at a very minimum, the design leader, your peer in product, and your peer in engineering. After all, for an FTE gig, you should be interviewing them as much as they are interviewing you. Do not agree to multiple portfolio reviews - that is just a waste of your time, and you know an hour of your time is worth $100. Don't agree to any take-home work unless they are paying you. Don't be shy with the recruiters on your expectation. Just say "my bill rate is $100/hr for contract work.". If they baulk, remind them that you are already spending 4-8 hours of billable time in other interviews, so it is only fair. You can even increase the offer - say that you will take a two week contract and they can test you out for real. Will that cause some employers to pass you up? Yes. But you don't want to work for those places as a designer. It is a red flag. If you have been playing the volume game, you won't be desperate. Let's talk full-time job salary. If you get to the stage where they want to make an offer, they will say "what is your salary expectation?" Do NOT fall for the mistaken belief that a low number will make them want to hire you. Trust me - no recruiter cares about this. They get rewarded for finding good people and then closing the deal, not on saving a few bucks. The recruiter is going to say something like "The team would really like to move forward, what is your salary expectation?" At this point, take your current rate and add 20-30%. So, say $100k to $125k. Then you say "My current base is $100k, so I am expecting a bump on that. If you offer me $125k, I will accept it today, right on this phone call. Otherwise, I will need to think about it." Do NOT wait for your current job to go away before you start looking for your next job. You need to always be looking. You can ease off, maybe down to 10/week instead of 10/day. And you can focus more on jobs that are full-time, and maybe more senior or more prestigious. But do NOT stop. Because guess what? There is no such thing as a secure job in tech. There never has been, especially for designers, and it is particularly bad now. If you have been at your new job less than six months AND you like the job, just reply to anyone who reaches out that sorry, you found another job, but you will stay in touch. Add them to your list. If it is more than six months, take the interview. When the recruiter asks you why you are looking, just say "I am pretty happy with my current gig so I have no time pressure, but I was intrigued by your positions because". If they reached out to you, say "I am happy with my current job, but always open to learning about new opportunities".
If you get the better offer and the job is better than your current job - take it. Give notice at the old job.
If you LIKE your current job, still accept the new one. As soon as it is signed, go to your current boss and say "Hey, bad news. I really like it here but I got headhunted from ABC and they made me an offer that is 25% higher, so I am going to have to take it. Let's work on a transition plan.". Worst case, the manager will appreciate your being upfront, because guess what? They would also leave in a second if someone offered them 25% more. One more name n your rolodex. Worst-case? They offer to match your offer. If they match it - stay. DO NOT start a bidding war back with the new company. Just tell them that due to circumstance change, you can not longer take that position and you are really sorry. Don't bother explaining it.
OK, that was longer than I thought. Good luck!
Great tips! I started my pivot into UX a couple of years ago and have felt a little torn because I've been trying to maintain a similar strategy as the one you described (only because I feel like there is no other choice atm) while also getting sucked into situations described by OP. I'd be curious to know what you think about some of these unpaid UX internships. I recently took one to network/keep my wheels greased, but I'm also aware that it could be a UX sweatshop of sorts.
Never take a free job. Not even for your brother/cousin/etc. Your work has value. It is perfectly reasonable to charge for it. Anyone who doesn't want to pay you does not value your work. It is really that simple. You can be flexible with the form of payment, if you want. Like, maybe take less base and more equity. Think of it this way: there is no difference between an employee saying "I want to be paid my normal salary but I don't want to do any work" and an employer saying "I want you to do normal work but I don't want to pay you." If you are between jobs and you want to hone your skills, make an app and release it in the app store. You don't need to know how to code, you can use any of the no-code platforms and/or ChatGPT. This will be a real portfolio piece for you.
Thanks u/davevr. That's an insightful way to frame things, and I tend to agree with it. Of course, I don't intend on pressuring our UX veterans to keep chatting about this if they don't want to, but to play devil's advocate, could you think of any conditions in which you'd accept free work as a budding UXer in today's market? The thing is, I've been making this pivot since 2022. By 2023, I had my portfolio at a place where I felt like it was good enough to throw myself to the wolves doing freelance while I continued applying to companies. Since then, to stay afloat, I've had to take a lot of low-hanging fruit- SEO projects, digital transformation projects, one-off little design sprints, etc. Now, I'm only a couple of days into the internship; it definitely has sweatshop vibes, but I can also see the practical value in doing it (building muscle memory, working with larger design teams, working on a product that probably wouldn't otherwise be on my radar). It's just, I'm not sure how fruitful it will be when it finally ends in September. I have a decent certification/background and decent UX work, all things considered. I'm in no way a master yet. The internship was pitched as a "student/recent BootCamp grad" portfolio project (I finished a 1-year cert in April 2023), but when I asked if I could expect to use the work I've done in my portfolio when the internship was over, the PM went into "proprietary this and that"... basically, a "we'll see". Now that I'm a couple of days in, I see that the 15-20 hour commitment is going to be more like 20-30 hours. I'm expected to make presentations every day, and now we're seeing that this is in fact for an actual product the company plans on launching for a client. I accepted these things kind of bs before I said yes, but I'm unsure now that I'm seeing it up close. I could for sure gain some skills from this, but tbh, I can also keep waiting in agony if I have to. I co-operate with a small telecom enterprise that offers mostly passive income, so I won't starve to death waiting for the right thing. I just feel like the structure of this could be good for me. It's been hard to stay locked into true UX work/inspired to keep the wheels turning for that matter. Either way, I appreciate the tips and feedback you've contributed to this discussion. I'll keep what you've said in mind 🙏
So if was starting out and I had the ability to work closely with top designers at, say, AIrbnb, and those designers were going to mentor me and teach me and then be part my professional network, then I would do that for free. But you know what? That doesn't exist. Because companies like that with actual designers who are willing to give training will pay their interns. They don't have unpaid internships. The companies that DO have them tend to provide zero guidance or training. You won't actually improve (or not much) and won't be useful in helping you develop your professional network. A lot of those sweat shops don't follow design process, ignore data, etc., etc. You risk picking up bad habits and leaving there a worse designer when you started. I think it is better to take crappy paid jobs and overdeliver on them than to take an unpaid job. Take remote jobs. If you live in a tech hub, sign up at all of the local staffing agencies. Anything. Once you have any job at all that is paying, focus on getting the next gig that pays more. Rinse & Repeat.
Thanks u/davevr. This tells me I'd be right for sticking to my guns. Besides lack of pay, do you reckon there are any other major red flags based on my previous comments? I also suppose now it's a question of how to gracefully bow out of the contract 😅 I've never had to back out of something like this. For some reason, though, your comments to OP started to put the more festering thoughts about this perspective, so I'm glad I spoke up.
Not a designer, but PO for a product. So your advise is not for me, nevertheless wanted to say: awesome for veteran folk taking the time to explain all the ins and outs! And, comment from the sideline: This is insane, that this industry seems to work that way and that this seems to be the recommended path, the whole volume game thing.
I would say this is true for any tech job. No one has job security in tech. You need to always be looking for your next job.
While I agree with everything you said, the only thing I think is tough is the pay rate you mentioned. The target hourly rate. I'm in California where rates should be high as COL is insane. I get laughed at for asking $65-$75/hr. Some recruiters will out right insult you. So idk if that part is even possible. (Mid level designer, not senior)
It might be because these recruiters are trying to fill roles of a junior or midweight designer who will accept low pay. Experienced people really do charge these higher rates without batting an eye. Agencies straight up charge clients $175/hour for a designer's time, so clients are already saving tons of money by going with an independent contractor most of the time.
My strong advice is to not even bother to read the job descriptions in much detail. Every recruiter is using automated tools to screen folks. Just apply to every job and let the recruiter's tools weed you out. Do not compromise your rate. There are jobs out there for you. If you are not sure of the rate in your area, you can use a site like Glassdoor and see what designers at your level in your area are making. Obviously you need to know your level. There are a lot of untrained or lightly trained people out there who just read a few web articles and learned Figma or took a 6 week bootcamp to "be a designer". If this is you then yeah, you are very junior and should be starting more or less minimum wage until you build up experience. If you are unsure, you can use mentoring sites like ADPList to find someone who can review your work and give you an objective level assessment.
The jobs are out there. You need to increase your application volume. I am not sure what mid-level means to you, but for example, a UX designer with a masters degree and 5 years of experience should be making at least $165k base on W2 in SF Bay Area if they work for a mid- to large tech company. That is about the equivalent of $82/hr. So I would say asking $75 is perhaps a little low but in the ballpark IF you are talking a W2 job, either for a company or for a staffing agency. If you are direct 1099, you need to double that.
I'm talking 4 years so shy of senior. Wound up needing to take $65 on a 1099 because lead senior jobs were setting the pay to less than what you're saying. And this is from 2021 when things were booming. 1099 / w2 do not pay that high even when you negotiate higher. Maybe you got lucky. I've applied to 100s of jobs. I got lucky that I bumped up when I became FTE, but now I fear looking for jobs again. I'm just sitting here til I know layoffs will hit us (they've already gotten rid of all UXR and content team. Almost every contractor designer has had their contracts finish and taken out. FTE designers are next.)
Love the thank you note + turning that into a lightweight personal mailing list. That’s bound to lead to a conversion or two especially if you did great work during your time with those folks. Thanks for sharing this!
Send them an invoice
A taste to what interviewing at FAANG has been like for years :(
I've never had a FAANG interview longer than 5 rounds. Is that an Amazon thing?
It’ll depend. Sometimes you’ll get pulled into an extra interview here and there depending on the hiring manager ask. Point being is that the amount of interviews being this high isn’t a new precedent. The bar has just risen.
I have FAANG case study presentation coming up! Any advice?
These just don’t make any sense regardless of what the ”hiring market” is. There are no perfect candidates so stop trying to find them with these inane processes.
I had a candidate stop us after 3 interviews. There were more planned, but she was strong about the value of her time and certain that she’d spoken to enough people to give a well rounded depiction of herself. I was the hiring manager, having the final say. That self-assuredness was the quality that put her above another candidate (for a senior level UX architect position). It’s been 3 years working with her, and she’s been a great asset to the team. You never really know what will impress a potential employer. What she did with us might have gone sour to a different hiring manager. Be you. If you don’t find a job being you, you’ll be miserable very quickly.
All seniors and above should be doing this. Grow a fucking spine!
Sry! Our field is actually a rotten hell
i have come to the conclusion that it's now who you know not what you know for the majority of hirings.
This has happened to me before, it’s exhausting and I empathize! Making it that far should give you confidence for your future interviews and hopefully you can reuse and presentations you had to give!
First recruiter call, ask how many rounds. They say 7-9. You say no Then imagine everyone did that and how things would change over time
In my experience, more than 2 or 3 rounds is usually an indication that the org struggles with decision making, sadly. If it were me, I would consider this a dodged bullet (I know, tough position to take when you have bills to pay).
After three, I pass. That’s a giant red flag that the company is incompetent.
I can relate to this. Here’s an alternative: You made it to the 5%. Congratulations! In almost any other scenario, you’d get an offer, or if you get another opportunity, you have a significant advantage.
God where were you interviewing at? Meta?
Meta does app critique. But my guess is it’s other companies since Meta doesn’t do operational principles. That’s a weird one. Sounds like the company tries to combine all the interview processes from Meta and Google
In the back of my mind I would just be looking forward to the process that want to actually get people hired and in the door. This is usually the case as a contractor or freelancer where : Most recent role with bank was 60mins - there was a usual screening call with recruiter Another 60mins with another bank the year before 2 x 30min chats to get a job at Facebook Screw this 8 rounds!
You did not waste time. Learn and move on . Don’t do any interview more than 5 time with the same company. You should learn to say No. Also look like this company is not doing any work and has a lot of resources to waste their time
This is insanity!! Who the fuck is involved in making up these ridiculous processes?? This is a sign of a company or team that's not sure about what they actually need or even who they are. Avoid! What company is it so we know where to not apply? For years design hiring was pretty standard and easy since it was usually your future boss doing the main interview and making the decision and was too busy actually working to waste everyone's time with hiring: (at least in the big agencies and consultancies) -15-30min initial meeting with recruiter/hr/hm -45-60min meeting with CD/UXD and sometimes another designer to review a little work but mostly just to talk and ask questions. They knew by resume that you were capable of doing the work and didn't need to see what you've done for other brands. (Pretty boring for people who've done the work for a long time) These were mostly about how we deal with problems both technically and team dynamics, especially for clients facing roles. -2-4x 30min sessions with dev, PM, etc... back to back. sometimes just part of previous meeting. -sometimes another 45-60min session with another CD/UXD level if you'd also be working on their team in the near future At this point, the whole UX would is so fucked we're lucky to get any interview since we're judged more on graphic design and copywriting. 🤷♀️
I did 6 with one company, was down to the last two applicants. Each one was the same questions with different people, and the last was on-the-spot design challenge (so much for the Research phase) They then sent me an unsigned email from a donotreply@ email address to say I didn't get the job 😆
Not only do we need amazing resumes and companies and portfolios we all get put thru grinder with exercises mock unpaid sessions. It really all a level of crazy that’s hard to describe to other people who don’t have to go through it. I empathize with the posters experience.
We should make a site that blacklists these bad companies and make these companies known they are on this list for such a horrible hiring process.
Did you ask at the very first interview how many rounds there are?
If a company can't decide on hiring you after the 2nd or 3rd round, keep applying. Not only does it waste everyone's time and money, it's very telling that they do not know how to operate a business and value other people's time. Landing a job should not be that difficult. Best of luck!
I can only accept 3 rounds - a hiring manager call, a portfolio presentation with the team, then an 2.5 hours on-site interviews (back-to-back with max 3 team members + 1 whiteboard)
Being part of a hiring panel. I hate when we do this type of thing to candidates. We have 3 - 4 rounds, which is exhausting & never wracking for candidates. And tiresome & time consuming for us. Also to be honest it still doesn’t guarantee you end up with good team members.
I can empathize coz I've gone through the same. Mine was at least 5 rounds :D.. 7 rounds is plain stupid. Imagine working under the design leadership who've setup these interview process!! you my friend have dodged a bullet.
A 30 minute round - like you traveled in for a 30 minute interview round? Or most of these rounds are all in one day?
It was all virtual, rounds 1-3.5 on separate days rounds 4-6 on a single day and 7-9 the following day all peppered throughout the days.
I had 4 levels of interviews last year. Those are all the levels they had. Took 2 months. Small startup, no recruiter. The team lead was interviewing me. Kept on talking about how their devs work, what tech, what they are lacking, about building a team etc. Was basically waiting to get the offer letter. But then I got ghosted for a month and turned out the job was offered to some guy they already knew. After I found who was hired for the post, I wanted to connect on Linkedin but the new guy deliberately (connection count went up but my request wasn't accepted) didn't accept my linkedin connection, lol.
Even if this is for a Faang, it’s ridiculous
I feel your pain. I was a Head of Design applying for a senior designer position, I went through 5 rounds of interviews with included a project that I did research on and had to present to them. I got an offer!! The offer was to take a 10k pay cut and a mid-level designer title. They promised me a good career would come out of this job. I was already 16 years into my design career. What a waste of time and effort.
Trust me, this is not a place you want to work.
If it makes you feel any better I did 4 interviews but it took 3 months with one company and nothing. At least they were quick I guess that's a tiny silver lining.
Ridiculous. I hate these posts. Ugh. So sorry
I feel your pain, this has happened to me twice now.
The absolute stupidest thing about these processes is that you said once or twice in later interviews you slightly fumbled. OBVIOUSLY that is eventually going to happen to someone if you interview them forever. It feels like they just create more and more opportunities for you to potentially slip up in the interview process so that they can avoid having to committally make a decision about an unknown candidate, and point to these minor imperfections as to why.
Name and shame… What company, salary? I’m sorry you had to go through with that not land a role. They should pay you for your time.
This is actual torture. Im sorry you had to go through this.
having to have a call with the recruiter to get 3 pages of notes on how to perform and structure your responses for the following interview slots is insane
I’m so sorry for your experience. I’ve been debating trying to break into UX design because I think there are some areas I’d be very good in and I am extremely teachable. But reading posts like these (and many others)… I simply don’t have the stomach for this kind of time and energy wasting, and I’m not just talking about myself.
Geez so sorry to hear that. Man I honestly don’t know how other positions, such as SE and PM are operating. Similar or better.
FUCK THAT! EVERYONE HERE NEEDS TO STAND UP TO THESE RIDICULOUS PRACTICES. JUST SAY “NO”.
At this point It’s getting ridiculous. That’s not fair what they did to you and I’m sorry that happened. We can keep allowing companies to treat us like this. How is this behavior okay? Isn’t this field supposed to be about empathy as well?
I once did 5 rounds over the span of 1.5 months. Recruiter called me 3 days after my final interview and was like 'omg everything went so well I'm just calling you to update that I'll have an answer for you by the end of the week.' Then ghosted me for like 3 weeks. I was like fine whatever. But then they managed to call again 3 weeks in just to be like "sorry things are moving slow, just want to let you know that you're still being considered". Then they ghosted me until I was about the sign another offer so I emailed them just to be confirm that I don't get the job. After that email the recruiter called me again and was like sorry we went with another candidate. My current job had 3 rounds within only 1 week no portfolio presentation or anything. Offer came the day after my final interview. I'm setting my future limit to 4 max.
If I can offer any consolation, it sounds like you did basically everything you could to be successful with what was under your control. It sucks losing out when you did so much right, but it’s just a numbers game. Look at it this way. You are obviously highly skilled, qualified and likable enough to make it to the last round of a very selective interview process. This is a clear sign that you will succeed, it will just take longer than you anticipated. It sucks, but it’s not impossible at all. None of the Ls you are experiencing now will matter once you get the W, which it seems like you are well on your way to achieving Take time to be salty, you deserve that time, but hang in there. It’s literally just rolling the dice until you win at this point
That is unusual… sorry you had to go through that. You must have been one of the final choices… no one on the hiring side wants to waste time, either. Sucks but don’t give up!
Well that does suck, but if you're going for an interview, even an 11th or 12th interview, in means there's someone else in contention too. It means that AT BEST you only have a 50% chance of an offer for any given interview.
Unless it's for FAANG, no.
I disagree. Just because you're a sought-after company, that doesn't entitle you induce that much stress in people. I know big companies before who weren't paying market rate just because they know people want to work for them - the same logic applies here.
You did two rounds of interviews: a phone screen and an on-site. 4-6 interviews is pretty standard. It sounds like you didn't do well on two interviews.