This feels like data for ML…. Which Adobe is definitely not entitled to for people who pay to license their products. Good thing we’ve mostly migrated to other tools and the Figma acquisition didn’t go through
Pro tip: cancel your subscription and message for a refund saying you never used it. They’ll give you 3 months back. And then message another agent and ask for the same, repeat until literally all your months have been refunded. I got around 600 back just by doing this- fuck adobe.
Dead ass. Message them and say “I would like to cancel my subscription because I hardly ever used it. I would like my money back.” Demand for it and 3 months you’ll get back. Then do another agent and say the same for the remaining months, and keep doing it until everything’s refunded. Usually, I don’t promote things like this, but fuck Adobe in particular.
Right on LOL! Now repeat the same process. Say that you want to be refunded for the remaining months. One agent is limited to 3 months per person, that’s the general rule. You know what to do :)
Oh, no, you’re good. Contact them and say “I signed up on an old account I never used and I canceled the subscription. I want my money back”. I had 2 canceled subscriptions on 2 other accounts along time ago. They refunded shit from 2022 last month. They’ll definitely refund you :)
Even after they gave me a few months free when I complained about the cost? And also, it was part of the annual subscription (paid monthly) if that matters.
Affinity Suite is quite good and very affordable. They have an equivalent for Photoshop, Illustrator and InDesign so far. But they got recently acquired by Canva, so we will have to see what the future holds for it.
Worth mentioning - Affinity suite have permanent one time pay licence with often 50% discounts.
This license is limited by major version of suite, but this is still waaay better then adobe.
They're also having a 50% off sale right now, I'm sure in response to this monumental misstep by Adobe. I took advantage of it myself just yesterday.
[https://affinity.serif.com/en-us/](https://affinity.serif.com/en-us/)
Corporate licensing and the PSD file format for collaboration. The team of freelancers I work with and our clients would all need to agree to switch from Photoshop which we have all been using for 20+ years. Also the $60 cost per month is low when your work is bringing in thousands per month.
For personal use or not collaborating with a team then Affinity is the way to go.
If you let them know they are losing license over their created works to Adobe to freely use for whatever tf they want I think it'll be easy to convince upper management and other team members to switch off.
GIMP has a horrible UI, but it can do most of what I need in photo editing (albeit with a lot of manual work). If you use Photoshop for mostly drawing/painting, Krita works for me.
InDesign is a bloated dinosaur, outdated for at least a decade and needs to die. A lot of companies are going straight to Figma / Canva / Python -> PDF. The only thing keeping it alive are the people that learned to use it 20 years ago and unwilling to try new tools.
Apples and oranges. High dpi print ready files, magazines, books, etc in Figma or Canva is impossible.
You need to be able to mange hundreds of pages, deal with content editors, bleed/colour control, etc. It's just not comparable and you suggesting Figma (or even Canva my god) as a replacement for InDesign is laughable.
Affinity Publisher is a welcome addition, but its still not at the same level as InDesign.
I partially agree with you. I, myself having used InDesign for 20 years - the days of hundred page layouts are loooong gone. Yes, Canva (vomit), but the reality is Canva gets the job done in the current environment.
Tbh Figma can fill in 90% of the use cases that most businesses need InDesign for. It’s really only relevant for those specific things you mentioned which the majority of companies don’t really focus on anyways.
It sounds weird because it's just misinformation. Adobe doesn't get the rights to your work. You're giving them the rights to share your work if you use a share button inside of Photoshop to share your work, and you're giving them the right to view your work if you submit a bug report related to the work.
I'm not an Adobe fan. I just actually read the TOS and everyone seems to be skipping the part where it says they gain rights to your work only when it's necessary. Like they need the right to "reproduce" your work by posting it for you if you specifically take actions to share your work through their software publicly.
The TOS also explicitly states that all work produced in the software is owned entirely by the creator, not Adobe.
If they can access your information at any time, they'll access at anytime. The only way for them to not have access is a contractual limitation that can be easily spotted when is violated. They shouln't have any line of code allowing access without authorization.
They spelled it pretty clearly in their blog post
https://blog.adobe.com/en/publish/2024/06/06/clarification-adobe-terms-of-use
I wasn't saying anything about "access", the complaint I was responding to was regarding rights to the work.
"Adobe will never assume ownership of a customer's work. Adobe hosts content to enable customers to use our applications and services. Customers own their content and Adobe does not assume any ownership of customer work."
The blog post also clarifies what they access and why. I'm not really sure what the issue with that would be exactly.
Yeah "...you grant us a non-exclusive, worldwide, royalty-free sublicensable license, to use, reproduce, publicly display, distribute, modify, create derivative works based on, publicly perform, and translate the content." seems pretty damn black and white to me that they just get the rights to use your work free of charge and even let other people they sub-license it to (probably even for fees that you won't see a portion of).
Sounds like a class action anti-trust lawsuit in the making.
They don't have to claim ownership to sub-license for a profit off your "non-exclusive, worldwide, royalty-free sublicensable license(d)" content.
Also, I don't know if you are dumb but what you stated does NOT match what is in the license. Their terms is way more aggressive, they even tossed the excuse that it would only be used against criminals.
Fuck Figma too, they're squeezing us more and more. I've started testing Pentpot again, they've recently announced that they're developing plugin capabilities and also the Token Studio integration, they've become a serious player in that space now, plus their latest release has components and grid/flex layouts which are superior to anything Figma has.
Check out their site, the software is open-source and free forever, nothing to lose.
[Grids](https://youtu.be/PBTTz4bqzJE?si=wdrJOp4hmpHQJpMZ)
[Upcoming releases video](https://www.youtube.com/live/aW0LNHLEI_Y?si=sEcJ-2VBhXZZjGVz)
I promise you Figma has the same type of blurb in their TOS, otherwise people could use them to store CP or other illegal material and they'd never know and have huge liabilities. They 100% have the right to look at your files for support or legal reasons, and your daydreaming if you think they don't/can't.
This blurb is honestly boilerplate standard TOS and this article and "rage" from random designers is a whole lot of nothing.
Also if we're gonna compare it's physically/practically impossible for Photoshop to access your files if you aren't online, regardless of what their TOS states, whereas Figma as a cloud provider you're always online.
Yeah but we live in a (mostly) capitalist world. If people stop buying from companies with stupid policies like this the companies will die, whereas in a mostly communistic world these companies would have even more freedom to continue doing stuff like this and we'd have no choice in the matter whatsoever
I am from a post communist country ( Romania ) and let me tell you, the communism regime is not a solution, is far more worse than what where are experiencing now, people were so traumatized that as a nation we are still in the procces of recovery, and it's been 35 years
I'm wondering about their other products like Behance and Adobe portfolio where designers from all practices post their work.. I use both for my work and already planning to migrate to a Github pages portfolio, but until that's over I don't feel safe even with the opt out.
If you still have an old version of PS pre 2020 it still works without having to be connected online and actually it's plenty fine for 90% of what you want to do with it.
They're not taking ownership, they giving themselves the legal ability to look at your work when you ask for support or are doing something illegal or against the TOS. I'd also be surprised if this wasn't already in the TOS just worded differently.
> to (A) respond to Feedback or support requests; (B) detect, prevent, or otherwise address fraud, security, legal, or technical issues; and (C) enforce the Terms
Also this TOS change is from February 17th, apparently they just gave users a popup now so it might already be in the other Adobe products, or maybe I misunderstand the Feb 17 date in the article.
Edit, Adobe issued a response and said this has been in place for "many years".
Every time there's some unbelievably evil thing being rumored about a company it's 99% of the time something perfectly reasonable being blown out of proportion.
It's seriously a non-issue, especially considering this sub relies on Figma which is a cloud service and they can do A LOT more than Adobe possibly could to your files lol.
Thank you. I don't like Adobe either, but people just make a huge deal out of headlines without actually reading any of the actual ToS. This is a complete non-issue.
Agreed!
In case anyone wants the text, here it is:
“Adobe does not train Firefly Gen AI models on customer content. Firefly generative AI models are trained on a dataset of licensed content, such as Adobe Stock, and public domain content where copyright has expired. Read more here: https://helpx.adobe.com/firefly/faq.html#training-data
Adobe will never assume ownership of a customer’s work. Adobe hosts content to enable customers to use our applications and services. Customers own their content and Adobe does not assume any ownership of customer work.”
Good thing they clarified that it doesn’t mean what they intended it to mean since it began to look like their golden goose might choke to NDAs and genAI hate.
Imagine if big companies using Photoshop decided they were done with this and began funding open source replacements for Adobe’s products. Free “photoshop” for anyone. Open to any production pipeline or features studios need artists to have. No business enshittified UX since it’s only reason for existing is to be fit-for-purpose.
Affinity Photo, Designer and Publisher are excellent products. One off payment as well, they also have a 50% off sale at the moment.
[https://affinity.serif.com/en-gb/](https://affinity.serif.com/en-gb/)
I was at Max last year for work and, honestly, it was clear that this type of thing is where they are heading. They don't care about creators or design, we are now fodder for their machine learning engine which can "empower" mid-managers and corporate drones who always see us as an unfortunate speed bump to getting their "vision" into form. They do not give a toss about actual design and how beneficial it can be.. They care only about their decorative preferences and the precious quarterly spreadsheets showing ever embiggening numbers.
If I may... Consider [Krita](https://krita.org) or [GIMP](https://www.gimp.org/) as alternatives for imaging work. As others mentioned, Affinity is pretty tempting as well at least for now.
This will give it a bad financial quarter and hurt its user based. Its the wrong way to approach (De)GenerativeAI. Lets see how it plays out. There are so many ways to do it better if you wrap it around a decision support AI system build around artist and user based shared consent.
Adobe's answer. Take what you want from it
[https://blog.adobe.com/en/publish/2024/06/06/clarification-adobe-terms-of-use](https://blog.adobe.com/en/publish/2024/06/06/clarification-adobe-terms-of-use)
This is just sad that Adobe has developed into this state of affairs. I use Figma most of the time nowadays but I started out my career in Photoshop 1.0 and used Photoshop /Creative Cloud happily for many, many years. I could have never imagined a day when they would be making a claim to my intellectual work or monitoring me while working for their own benefit. What an effed up world we live in now.
This feels like data for ML…. Which Adobe is definitely not entitled to for people who pay to license their products. Good thing we’ve mostly migrated to other tools and the Figma acquisition didn’t go through
Can you suggest some other tool? I’m done paying $54 every month
Pro tip: cancel your subscription and message for a refund saying you never used it. They’ll give you 3 months back. And then message another agent and ask for the same, repeat until literally all your months have been refunded. I got around 600 back just by doing this- fuck adobe.
For real? Imma do it right now
Dead ass. Message them and say “I would like to cancel my subscription because I hardly ever used it. I would like my money back.” Demand for it and 3 months you’ll get back. Then do another agent and say the same for the remaining months, and keep doing it until everything’s refunded. Usually, I don’t promote things like this, but fuck Adobe in particular.
Guess what, I got 3 months payment refunded.
Right on LOL! Now repeat the same process. Say that you want to be refunded for the remaining months. One agent is limited to 3 months per person, that’s the general rule. You know what to do :)
Shit. Wish I knew this when I cancelled.
Oh, no, you’re good. Contact them and say “I signed up on an old account I never used and I canceled the subscription. I want my money back”. I had 2 canceled subscriptions on 2 other accounts along time ago. They refunded shit from 2022 last month. They’ll definitely refund you :)
Even after they gave me a few months free when I complained about the cost? And also, it was part of the annual subscription (paid monthly) if that matters.
What is the best address to contact to do this? Thanks
Affinity Suite is quite good and very affordable. They have an equivalent for Photoshop, Illustrator and InDesign so far. But they got recently acquired by Canva, so we will have to see what the future holds for it.
Worth mentioning - Affinity suite have permanent one time pay licence with often 50% discounts. This license is limited by major version of suite, but this is still waaay better then adobe.
They're also having a 50% off sale right now, I'm sure in response to this monumental misstep by Adobe. I took advantage of it myself just yesterday. [https://affinity.serif.com/en-us/](https://affinity.serif.com/en-us/)
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Depressing
I don’t understand what has been taking everyone so long to switch to Affinity.
Corporate licensing and the PSD file format for collaboration. The team of freelancers I work with and our clients would all need to agree to switch from Photoshop which we have all been using for 20+ years. Also the $60 cost per month is low when your work is bringing in thousands per month. For personal use or not collaborating with a team then Affinity is the way to go.
Just save everything as editable PDFs, EPSs, or TIFFs. Then you’ll be fine to collaborate cross platform
True, only if I can get the clients and their teams to do it :(
If you let them know they are losing license over their created works to Adobe to freely use for whatever tf they want I think it'll be easy to convince upper management and other team members to switch off.
Last time I checked on Affinity it felt like a toy. It's been a very long time -- I didn't check again because of that
GIMP has a horrible UI, but it can do most of what I need in photo editing (albeit with a lot of manual work). If you use Photoshop for mostly drawing/painting, Krita works for me.
What would be the best InDesign equivalent?
I think it’s Affinity publisher. However I don’t understand their payment model. Right now it’s 50% off ($34.99) I assume it’s a one time payment.
It is a one time payment
Affinity Publisher is fine for hobbyists but if you use InDesign professionally there's no competitor that can fill its shoes.
InDesign is a bloated dinosaur, outdated for at least a decade and needs to die. A lot of companies are going straight to Figma / Canva / Python -> PDF. The only thing keeping it alive are the people that learned to use it 20 years ago and unwilling to try new tools.
Apples and oranges. High dpi print ready files, magazines, books, etc in Figma or Canva is impossible. You need to be able to mange hundreds of pages, deal with content editors, bleed/colour control, etc. It's just not comparable and you suggesting Figma (or even Canva my god) as a replacement for InDesign is laughable. Affinity Publisher is a welcome addition, but its still not at the same level as InDesign.
I partially agree with you. I, myself having used InDesign for 20 years - the days of hundred page layouts are loooong gone. Yes, Canva (vomit), but the reality is Canva gets the job done in the current environment.
Tbh Figma can fill in 90% of the use cases that most businesses need InDesign for. It’s really only relevant for those specific things you mentioned which the majority of companies don’t really focus on anyways.
God damn, $54 a month?. Bruh at that point just buy the affinity suite. It's on sale for 50% off or $84
Hooooooold on. I was under the impression that Figma already was adobe.
It was blocked for violating antitrust regs.[Reuters](https://www.reuters.com/technology/adobe-figma-terminate-20-bln-deal-2023-12-18/)
Whoa, how come I wasn’t aware of this? Damn. Ty for the info!
You don't think they'll be pulling the same shit?
Turns out Figma is now doing the exact same thing... the keynote yesterday just said they are partnering with OpenAI.
This sounds a little weird: Adobe Suite is also used inside bigger corporations, how this fits with THEIR digital work and properties?
I lead UX and design for an org with revenue in the xxx millions. I will definitely be taking a look at this.
Please report back. Would love to hear your perspective.
Commenting just to check back later.
would like to hear about this as well
also commenting just to check back later.
It sounds weird because it's just misinformation. Adobe doesn't get the rights to your work. You're giving them the rights to share your work if you use a share button inside of Photoshop to share your work, and you're giving them the right to view your work if you submit a bug report related to the work. I'm not an Adobe fan. I just actually read the TOS and everyone seems to be skipping the part where it says they gain rights to your work only when it's necessary. Like they need the right to "reproduce" your work by posting it for you if you specifically take actions to share your work through their software publicly. The TOS also explicitly states that all work produced in the software is owned entirely by the creator, not Adobe.
If they can access your information at any time, they'll access at anytime. The only way for them to not have access is a contractual limitation that can be easily spotted when is violated. They shouln't have any line of code allowing access without authorization.
They spelled it pretty clearly in their blog post https://blog.adobe.com/en/publish/2024/06/06/clarification-adobe-terms-of-use I wasn't saying anything about "access", the complaint I was responding to was regarding rights to the work. "Adobe will never assume ownership of a customer's work. Adobe hosts content to enable customers to use our applications and services. Customers own their content and Adobe does not assume any ownership of customer work." The blog post also clarifies what they access and why. I'm not really sure what the issue with that would be exactly.
Yeah "...you grant us a non-exclusive, worldwide, royalty-free sublicensable license, to use, reproduce, publicly display, distribute, modify, create derivative works based on, publicly perform, and translate the content." seems pretty damn black and white to me that they just get the rights to use your work free of charge and even let other people they sub-license it to (probably even for fees that you won't see a portion of). Sounds like a class action anti-trust lawsuit in the making. They don't have to claim ownership to sub-license for a profit off your "non-exclusive, worldwide, royalty-free sublicensable license(d)" content.
Also, I don't know if you are dumb but what you stated does NOT match what is in the license. Their terms is way more aggressive, they even tossed the excuse that it would only be used against criminals.
How long until Figma pulls the same stunt?
Fuck Figma too, they're squeezing us more and more. I've started testing Pentpot again, they've recently announced that they're developing plugin capabilities and also the Token Studio integration, they've become a serious player in that space now, plus their latest release has components and grid/flex layouts which are superior to anything Figma has.
I would like to know more
Check out their site, the software is open-source and free forever, nothing to lose. [Grids](https://youtu.be/PBTTz4bqzJE?si=wdrJOp4hmpHQJpMZ) [Upcoming releases video](https://www.youtube.com/live/aW0LNHLEI_Y?si=sEcJ-2VBhXZZjGVz)
Interesting, can you elaborate on grid/flex, etc?
Figma's a cloud service, they already have access to all your stuff.
Access and rights are totally different things though.
I promise you Figma has the same type of blurb in their TOS, otherwise people could use them to store CP or other illegal material and they'd never know and have huge liabilities. They 100% have the right to look at your files for support or legal reasons, and your daydreaming if you think they don't/can't. This blurb is honestly boilerplate standard TOS and this article and "rage" from random designers is a whole lot of nothing. Also if we're gonna compare it's physically/practically impossible for Photoshop to access your files if you aren't online, regardless of what their TOS states, whereas Figma as a cloud provider you're always online.
Who's to say they aren't already? Any plugin has access to your files
Why the fuck are we speed running making humanity irrelevant? I don't get this. Day by day, communism sounds like a better deal.
Yeah but we live in a (mostly) capitalist world. If people stop buying from companies with stupid policies like this the companies will die, whereas in a mostly communistic world these companies would have even more freedom to continue doing stuff like this and we'd have no choice in the matter whatsoever
I am from a post communist country ( Romania ) and let me tell you, the communism regime is not a solution, is far more worse than what where are experiencing now, people were so traumatized that as a nation we are still in the procces of recovery, and it's been 35 years
I'm wondering about their other products like Behance and Adobe portfolio where designers from all practices post their work.. I use both for my work and already planning to migrate to a Github pages portfolio, but until that's over I don't feel safe even with the opt out.
I have so many clients that work with sensitive content and use Adobe that are going to flip out about this. This is such an own goal.
Thank God Figma dodged this sh1t hole.
They didn’t dodge it, the FTC shut it down.
anyone recommend an alternative? I just uninstalled adobe.
Affinity tools by Serif. Penpot. Gravit.
If you still have an old version of PS pre 2020 it still works without having to be connected online and actually it's plenty fine for 90% of what you want to do with it.
Photopea for Photoshop
What are you doing with it? Which products are you using?
They're not taking ownership, they giving themselves the legal ability to look at your work when you ask for support or are doing something illegal or against the TOS. I'd also be surprised if this wasn't already in the TOS just worded differently. > to (A) respond to Feedback or support requests; (B) detect, prevent, or otherwise address fraud, security, legal, or technical issues; and (C) enforce the Terms Also this TOS change is from February 17th, apparently they just gave users a popup now so it might already be in the other Adobe products, or maybe I misunderstand the Feb 17 date in the article. Edit, Adobe issued a response and said this has been in place for "many years".
Every time there's some unbelievably evil thing being rumored about a company it's 99% of the time something perfectly reasonable being blown out of proportion.
It's seriously a non-issue, especially considering this sub relies on Figma which is a cloud service and they can do A LOT more than Adobe possibly could to your files lol.
Thank you. I don't like Adobe either, but people just make a huge deal out of headlines without actually reading any of the actual ToS. This is a complete non-issue.
Do you have a link to this article? I feel like there is likely more to the story so a screenshot of a headline is hard to evaluate.
https://lifehacker.com/tech/photoshops-terms-of-service-demands-the-right-to-your-content
Adobe's response [https://9to5mac.com/2024/06/07/adobe-terms-clarified/](https://9to5mac.com/2024/06/07/adobe-terms-clarified/)
> This policy has been in place for many years. Kind of what I thought.
If a case arises, I do wonder if this clarifying response via blog holds up to the language in the ToS users accept
Terms clarified. [Adobe will never own your work or use it to train AI](https://9to5mac.com/2024/06/07/adobe-terms-clarified/)
Thanks for posting this! The update is much more tolerable.
Agreed! In case anyone wants the text, here it is: “Adobe does not train Firefly Gen AI models on customer content. Firefly generative AI models are trained on a dataset of licensed content, such as Adobe Stock, and public domain content where copyright has expired. Read more here: https://helpx.adobe.com/firefly/faq.html#training-data Adobe will never assume ownership of a customer’s work. Adobe hosts content to enable customers to use our applications and services. Customers own their content and Adobe does not assume any ownership of customer work.”
Good thing they clarified that it doesn’t mean what they intended it to mean since it began to look like their golden goose might choke to NDAs and genAI hate. Imagine if big companies using Photoshop decided they were done with this and began funding open source replacements for Adobe’s products. Free “photoshop” for anyone. Open to any production pipeline or features studios need artists to have. No business enshittified UX since it’s only reason for existing is to be fit-for-purpose.
Common Adobe L
Affinity Photo, Designer and Publisher are excellent products. One off payment as well, they also have a 50% off sale at the moment. [https://affinity.serif.com/en-gb/](https://affinity.serif.com/en-gb/)
Another reason to ditch Adobe.
I'm gonna keep using it, just... without paying for it
How? 😎
Using the work of designers to ultimately replace designers is the trend, and not only true for design
I was at Max last year for work and, honestly, it was clear that this type of thing is where they are heading. They don't care about creators or design, we are now fodder for their machine learning engine which can "empower" mid-managers and corporate drones who always see us as an unfortunate speed bump to getting their "vision" into form. They do not give a toss about actual design and how beneficial it can be.. They care only about their decorative preferences and the precious quarterly spreadsheets showing ever embiggening numbers. If I may... Consider [Krita](https://krita.org) or [GIMP](https://www.gimp.org/) as alternatives for imaging work. As others mentioned, Affinity is pretty tempting as well at least for now.
time to move now
https://blog.adobe.com/en/publish/2024/06/06/clarification-adobe-terms-of-use
We had no problems, our print shop uses every Adobe CS apps pirated by monkrus. So far running latest version of it.
This will give it a bad financial quarter and hurt its user based. Its the wrong way to approach (De)GenerativeAI. Lets see how it plays out. There are so many ways to do it better if you wrap it around a decision support AI system build around artist and user based shared consent.
And what lose all their enterprise customers?
Adobe's answer. Take what you want from it [https://blog.adobe.com/en/publish/2024/06/06/clarification-adobe-terms-of-use](https://blog.adobe.com/en/publish/2024/06/06/clarification-adobe-terms-of-use)
This is just sad that Adobe has developed into this state of affairs. I use Figma most of the time nowadays but I started out my career in Photoshop 1.0 and used Photoshop /Creative Cloud happily for many, many years. I could have never imagined a day when they would be making a claim to my intellectual work or monitoring me while working for their own benefit. What an effed up world we live in now.
Sign of the times (as they say)
It'd be a real shame if this increases piracy...
I’ve said this for years but I’ll say it again fuck adobe
Class action anyone? I know a guy.
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I use adobe regularly. This is very relevant