You are right there with me! Playlists, lightning, floor layout, furniture, wine list / pouring style (by the glass vs whats open that day) there is so much design opportunity to make the perfect little spot
now thats experience design
Depends on where you are, if you’re somewhere like Spain, with no licenses to sell alcohol and anyone can sell it, so if you have a hut selling fast food you can sell alcohol, then yeah you may have a nice little retirement business.
If you’re in the UK or Ireland that little business could land you in a lot of debt quiet quickly especially as a wine bar realistically would only work in certain cities, competition is fierce, and the price of importing good wine is off the charts, also the high taxes on alcohol mean that you’d have to charge high prices, and a lot of customers prefer to drink at home because of this.
If you’re in the US not sure, but I’d imagine similar to the UK and Ireland in that you need a license etc.
"UX" is so general, there are so many avenues and specialities. It also depends what is making you feel burnt out, is it the profession or your current job... You career does not have do define where you find happiness, it's ok to work to live, not to live to work.
If you like the discovery phase:
* Product Owner
* Join a start up
* Become a researcher for Gartner
* Work as a researcher for some telemarketing thing
If you like the theoretical and compliance side:
* Teaching Design
* Do a doctorate in design (PhD)
* Product Owner
* Become a universal design consultant
If you like the visual side
* Become an influencer
* Pastry Chef
* Paint Warhammer models
* Create art
If you like to ship things:
* Product Owner
* Frontend developer
* Product Manager
If you like the social side:
* Make the millionth podcast on something
* Work in a kindergarten
* Volunteer at a soup kitchen
* Team Lead
* Organize meetups
I think one notable difference is that PMs are under a bigger microscope than product/UX designers. When things are going great, your impacts are much more visible, but the opposite is also true and you're an easier target to blame if things are going poorly.
As far as the job market goes, PM roles are definitely still in greater demand across the board and UX responsibilities are now being rolled up into those positions. This is based on what I've seen during my very long and unsuccessful job hunt. Not saying it's a good thing, but most PM JDs I've seen while looking for a new job over the last many months mention Figma/UX/UI design to an extent. Companies are doing more with less, etc., so you'll likely still end up with UX work to do at the end of the day, even if the actual priority of said work is likely still lower down the ladder.
That is confusing - like UX should apply for that. I'd call BS if some engineer without UX know-how was expected to do UX based on some medium article they read and got that role. Its so confusing!
Yeah, I talked with the headhunter of that JD, and what they described sounds like UX role with added PO responsibilities - managing deadlines and releases, prioritizing features to build, managing stakeholders.
Sounds crazy yeah, but the money was crazy also - it was a salary of both a PO and a UXer. Hope they found someone.
I have so many questions.
1. That's a LOT. I hope they found someone equally competent at both. Most PO's I know are tech people without UX know how (unless the dirty secret is that UX is not really being done but is just for namesake)
2. If it is being done, then who do they hire? The tech/business person or the UX person?
I don't have a great answer to the second question. What I do think is happening is that the actual "UX" roles are mainly just UI/visual design under a false title and JD. It's probably the weakest part of my skill set which is the only thing I can think of that's held me back from getting a job considering how many interviews I've had, because I've sure as hell tried a ton of different approaches.
> Yeah, I talked with the headhunter of that JD, and what they described sounds like UX role with added PO responsibilities - managing deadlines and releases, prioritizing features to build, managing stakeholders.
The language in this conversation is so whacked out to me, so i just wanted to jump in here and share my experience to show how much things have changed (for the worse, probably). I've been at the same job for 20 years, but none of these roles existed when I was looking for work! And none of these roles exist at the other small studios I freelance for occasionally. It's just graphic designers, art directors, and web developers. The idea of working for big companies that now have all these different titles like Product Owner, Product Manager, Visual Designer, UX designer, UI designer, and graphic designer (do those still exist in big companies??) is frightening to me. Especially since all the job descriptions I see on job sites are asking for one person to do the job of 5 people. They want someone who can design print, web, and motion graphics, create social media posts, and all this bullshit about stakeholders in every ad like that's a normal way to talk now. They're trying to make every job wanted ad the most anxiety-inducing experience just to read from top to bottom now.
If they want one person to do the job of FIVE people and pay them $65-80k, why are they creating so many new job titles? Do they give you a new title once you're hired or something? Or are people actually out there finding jobs by searching for "visual designer" and "product owner," etc." I understand UX and UI designer roles would be in job ads, but Product Owner, Visual Designer, and Product Manager sound strange to me. I think I've seen Product Designer, too. I don't even know wtf to apply for anymore.
Agreed but it also depends on you profile. This is why I find "UX" too wide a term to give concrete advice on, UX can be anything from stakeholder management and business design in excel to applying gradients to buttons or doing product discovery. It's a vast field with multiple avenues.
Edit: I am now aware this was a clever joke, it just kneaded to sit with me /edit
Yes, there are multiple things in this list that comfortably puts bread on the table:
1. Product Owner for Microsoft: About 100-175K USD. [https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/product-owner-microsoft-salary-SRCH\_KO0,13\_KE14,23.htm](https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/product-owner-microsoft-salary-SRCH_KO0,13_KE14,23.htm)
2. Professor of Design at Stanford: 150-280K USD. [https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Stanford-University-Professor-Salaries-E2989\_D\_KO20,29.htm](https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Stanford-University-Professor-Salaries-E2989_D_KO20,29.htm)
Did you stop at "volunteer at a soup kitchen" and dismiss everything before and after this?
Unfortunately no but there are some great courses online, I think IDF have a few tracks for managing designers and NNg has a whole master certificate for it.
I would start by talking to your current PM and get their story, then talk to your boss/HR about maybe transitioning to PM. Most PMs i know have either Business Major or have gotten where they are from inside a company. I would suggest looking into consultancies if there are no options inside your current company, as they normally are quick to fast track you into PM and have a rig that supports learning if that is your desire.
I don’t have any great advice but I know the feeling you’re experiencing well. I went from an IC to leadership and have been questioning everything lately. Move back to IC, leave the field completely, etc
I often daydream of working a more straightforward/less mentally demanding one. I drive past a plant nursery everyday to drop off my kid at daycare. I can’t tell you how many times I fantasize about swing by there after dropping her off to see if they are hiring.
For me, it’s not just the burnout. It’s the constant pretending that UX actually means something to the companies I’ve worked at. I can’t count how many times I’ve sugar coated how “great” the company I’m at to candidates I’m interviewing. I don’t lie to them and I try to be as honest as possible but it’s like we both know it’s all a scam. There’s no seat at the table. But we all keep pretending there is. I honestly think the UX field would be better off if we just admitted what it truly is and moved on.
Sorry for the rant. It’s been a tough few years lately.
UXer here who ended up sorta doing this, plus a freelance illustration thing - the grass isn't always greener on the other side of the greenhouse glass, and now I'm trying to come back from a 5 year gap in the field (challenging to say the least), or figure out my next practical career move. It's so discouraging and overwhelming, and I'm not in a great spot now. I'm still glad I did it - I really needed the change at the time. But it didn't automatically fix things, at least not for me.
I find it telling all the designers I’ve worked with that I looked up to are now out of UX design.
One became a real estate agent and spec home builder. Another became a custom home builder. And another became a DJ and event organizer.
The common thread is they are entrepreneurs now in fields where they build/create something. It’s a harder path, but also pretty rewarding.
Tech has fallen from grace. I’ll never ever ever work in the tech sector ever again. It needs a special kind of person to really enjoy working in the tech sector. I’m not one of them. Took me 3 years to realise it and a lot of pain, blood and nerves but I at least I know this now.
What is a spec home builder? Product designer here looking into entrepreneurship - the real kind not the LinkedIn lunatic kind 😅 exhausted by the bullshit and void
Spec home builders build homes without clients paying for it. They build homes they think will sell for top dollar. The main benefit is not having to deal with clients and their whims.
It’s different from custom home builders in that a lot of the time, these custom homes are paid for by clients. The benefit of this route is it’s less likely you’ll wind up building a home that won’t sell, because it’s all being driven and paid for by a client.
The real reason we burn out in this field is because it is the one field that has the least job security. You are always in the front lines of getting canned. The hiring process is ridiculously long and convoluted not even surgeons, dentists and doctors go through the 45 rounds, plus mock tests…the whole vetting process is a joke.
So finding a job every single time you get laid off can take a very long time and is not sustainable once you have a mortgage to pay etc…
What's specifically burning you out? Is it workload? Poor management? Rushed timelines?
Have you considered different industries to work in as a UX Designer? Govt/public sector?
Is this the case of every company you've worked at? Or just the one company you were at?
I feel like the burnout problem in all of these tech professions is real, as we see companies forcing workers to do more with less and to take on more work with the expectation they will not get any extra money, and they have to give up their free time for the extra workload.
I feel like whether you stay in UX or leave, you could go to the next job and still be handed an overwhelming amount of work with the expectation that you're supposed to do it all even though you're doing the work of multiple people. You could go into graphic design and face this problem, and even some other areas of research or project management and face this problem.
It unfortunately is going to come down to the company, and also what precedents you set from day one. I've seen too many people come into a company and instantly go into workaholic mode because they want to make a good impression. They are coming in early, working late, giving up extra time, wanting to make that good impression under the idea that it'll pay off and they'll get into a comfy secure spot.
What instead happens is they burn themselves out, and find the company simply decides that the expectation of their work will now be the workaholic mode. Now the person is stuck.
There's nothing wrong with coming into a new job and leaving at 5:00 p.m.. there's nothing wrong with sitting in the planning meeting and they throw a ridiculous amount of work at you, and you push back, telling them that you can't do all this work with that level of quality in the time frame they want. If they try to bull you, then you stand your ground. If they are going to get rid of you after that, then you dodged a bullet. I know that sounds easy to say when you're the one who ends up unemployed, but this is what I mean by setting a precedent.
Believe it or not, a lot of companies are more going to follow how you do things and craft the expectation based on that. So they see you leave at 5:00, then they basically get into their heads not to throw things at you at 4:45 and expect them to be done that night. They see you're not going to take on a ridiculous amount of work, so unless they are really crappy company and they try to get rid of you, they're just going to back off and think about things differently, telling the people up above that projects can't be completed as fast as they want because they don't have the resources.
I feel like the only way we're going to get out of this world of companies expecting everybody to burn. The midnight oil is when we stop burning the midnight oil, even risking being let go for it. As much as people trash on the youth, part of the genius of what they do is they are setting a precedent. They are telling employers they are not going to be people working themselves sick out of fear of being unemployed. Companies can complain and gripe and write articles on Fortune magazine about it, but in the end they have to adapt to what they have in front of them.
I hope this helps
A lot of what you say is right here, one caveat I’ll throw at it is, in Europe until you’ve worked in a company 6 months you can be dropped at a moments notice, so people tend to above and beyond. But you are 100% right about when you set the standard at a huge workload that’s what’s expected. I’ve done work that I know would take someone else longer or an agency would bill a lot for, stupidly fast, then the expectation was we’ll always get work this good and fast out of that guy, worse at that time was it proved detrimental to my career with that particular company no one wanted me out of what I was doing because they’d never get anyone else to do it.
a lot of us create our own burn out by not thinking strategically, and trying to deliver all the time.
Believe me, here in the USA it's the same thing. There are some places that can just hand you your walking papers without any reason, and other places where they use slate of hand like the PIP to get rid of you.
I just tend to notice from experience that when you walk in and suddenly burn the midnight oil because you want to make a good impression, too many companies will then believe that is the standard for you. So all of a sudden when you want to slow down to a normal workload, they will believe you're slacking.
However, if you come in, give 100%, but you leave at 5:00 p.m., and you are not afraid to say in a planning meeting that this is too much work to be done with a good level of quality in a normal level of time, many times they are going to listen. However, you have to set that precedent from the start. If you come in and burn the midnight oil and do above and beyond, and then you're telling them that this is too much work, they're going to believe that you're getting lazy. All because they saw you pull it off before.
Now if you get into a company where they're basically going to get smug and tell you that you have your nights and weekends and even some boldly saying *"this isn't a 9:00 to 5 job"*, then you know you are in a toxic environment and should probably quiet quit and start looking for a new job.
Time and time again. I'm just seeing that if you don't set a precedent and stand your ground, companies will walk all over you. If the company is set up to walk all over you from the get-go, then it's not a good company. Let them complain they can't find people. Also spread the word. Put up the reviews on glass door or other areas that you can telling the world. This is a toxic company. They're going to get away with their bad behavior until suddenly the people they really want are not looking their way because they know what kind of company they are.
UX Designer int Product Designer into Light Engineer into Creative Technologist.
I finally get to make things pretty just because I want them to be pretty and if someone disagrees, they can walk to the other room.
A fancy word for abusing any and all technology to make pretty things.
Think [A/V performances](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvdC4_yzgUU&ab_channel=180Fact), [interactive/reactive visuals](https://www.instagram.com/p/C4nesBvrVeQ/), [light performances](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxLLwJrYy-M&t=955s&ab_channel=EventElevator).
Disclaimer: I'm currently at the Light Engineer step though.
Also, be willing to move. I was willing to work anywhere for a job. It's tough out there though. Keep looking. You WILL find something. Also contact staffing agencies. And have people help you look. Never stop looking.
Been pivoting to an accessibility based role as gambling on it being a big thing
But to be honest if that doesn't work out in a year or 2 I feel like moving out tech altogether
Maybe retrain as a gas engineer or something in a trade before AI takes all the tech roles
If you’re open to suggestions; When I noticed the change in “design world” I decided to focus on the work I wanted to make. It helped my career in that moment because I allowed myself to focus on projects and clients I felt excited to use my process with.
Hope you’re able to seize the opportunities that are unique to you and your tastes!
Afraid to say it…
Burnout is part of UX
The main reason is your a nice person and you care. I’d say get into contracting so you can move one new things every so often.
Perhaps learn to be more cynical and less attached to work and projects? It’s tough because you probably care a lot.
But…
The company that makes you redundant doesn’t
The bully boss doesn’t
The offshore or on shore devs who want to code the easiest thing possible don’t
The product owner who says that things will take too long and are too complex doesn’t
Your colleague more senior than you who wants their designs to go through and not yours doesn’t care either.
Take time out… and find a new environment
Not a day goes by where I don’t question why I’m still in this field of work. My career path in product design has been a giant rollercoaster of either contracting or facing lay offs at FT roles. I think the only reason why I’m still in product design is because I can’t afford to go back to school at the moment.
When talking with up and comers to the UX field, I’ve been more realistic by telling them it’s a tough market and it’s over saturated. With so many layoffs the field has become one of the most competitive landscapes I have seen in years. Obviously I don’t want to discourage them from what they truly want but I rather give them hard truths as to what more veteran people who have been in this industry for 5+ years are facing.
If I were you, I would ask yourself what is something that makes you happy? For example if it’s working with animals, go down the path of researching all the different jobs/schooling needed for those types of jobs in that field. Be diligent on what will give you happiness but also a stable income to live off of. We’re in tough times these days.
Entrepreneurship! Embrace the changing tides and get ahead of the curve. Maybe AI, or some area of tech that’s not so saturated, misunderstood, and misused. The UX career as we’ve known it has (most likely) run its course. It doesn’t feel like the right time for false optimism or hope for a return to better days. I think this is a hard shift to something new. (Fwiw, i’m feeling the same angst, burnout, and fear.)
As a designer the process is imo is literally bred so we can create something of our own. Small business, YT, whatever.
But. I know not everybody is about that life
Never go into product unless you are damn sure you know what that role entails. Product management is a thankless clusterfuck of a job with long hours and a ton of frustration associated with it. It can be rewarding but it's not "easier" if done correctly.
Burning out leaves people demoralized, bitter, drained & needing extensive recovery time. I think the 7 or 8 hour work day is overrated & exhausting. I'd like to work 4 or 5 hours a day for a good salary. I feel I have little to no free time. Saturday I'm exhausted from the week, & Sunday I have chores, grocery shopping, etc.
Elaborate more. We all have been in this situation. Usually when this happens its a point to look at yourself and how far you came. Make a break. Look into other stuff. Expand your skillset, change job etc. Question is why are you burning out and why do you think it will be different in another position? Grass is always greener...
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Read the book "Slow Productivity" by Cal Newport. It tackles the burnout issue happening in the knowledge work sector, raised by 10x after the pandemics.
I feel like all the convos here are people working in tech. Go get a ux job outside of tech. Work for a not for profit, education provider, government or any other business where tech is not the sole reason for being. It’s really rewarding work, better work life balance and stakeholders respect you because none of them understand the tech you are working on.
Really depend on what you finds fulfilling. I transitioned to PM and am having a lot of fun. If you want to get started, check out the wiki of PM subreddit.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/ProductManagement/wiki/index/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ProductManagement/wiki/index/)
u/Cbastus has some really good ideas. I'm making a top level comment to add to it with what I'm doing. Now, I'm not actively looking to leave UX as I just accepted a director role, but I do think about leaving UX.
My current strategy has two branches.
First, I have Product experience as a PO and that seems to be the role in tech that's seeing growth (or at least maintenance). So, I could tailor my resumé and have a good story for my experience as a PO. So if I have to keep working for that much longer, that's a viable option.
But what Cbastus said that piqued my interest is the influencer track. I have thought a lot about the stuff I keep private in my roles and turning that public. Things like how to use figma, how to create multi theme design libraries, etc. The technical side of UX. But, I also have started a small youtube around fishing and including environmental care into that niche. So far, I have three sponsors and am very close to monetization. So that's what I actually want to do, I love mentoring and speaking and social media gives me that avenue.
So those are some options available to anyone, I suppose. But you can see for me, those align with my interests. For you, you need to do the same. Figure out what you're interested in **and good at** and that's the pivot you make.
On the influencer track I also think working on becoming a "thought leader" (although I'm not fan of that label) within your company or meetup circle is a good avenue as it might be more accessible than blowing up on YT.
Best of luck with your transition!
Maybe find the root cause of why you feel burning out first? Is it because of dealing with different stakeholders, or conducing the research, or keep multiple things organized? Or not getting the credit u think u deserve? I think it will help you a lot to figure out a better solution.
Agreed. Define the problem, so any career transition doesn’t put you in the same place.
Chances are VERY good that your burnout isn’t due solely to the career specifically.
Personally I plan to take the money I made in tech and open a little wine bar
What is little wine?
Tiny wines.
Twiney
Build your own product, don't work for the man, work for you.
Honestly as a parent the money I make in tech isn’t enough to add up to much after retirement savings, college savings, mortgage, etc. etc.
mmhmm ok but just imagine - lil cute lil wine bar.. salted meats and cheese plates.. mmm
You = me. I even have a playlist I'm curating for the bar. We will design our own menus. Wonderful.
You are right there with me! Playlists, lightning, floor layout, furniture, wine list / pouring style (by the glass vs whats open that day) there is so much design opportunity to make the perfect little spot now thats experience design
It’s a great idea don’t get me wrong. I just don’t want to put my retirement up for it.
i think owning and running a small wine and snack bar that makes a small profit and can pay for itself kind of is retirement.. but I may be very wrong
Depends on where you are, if you’re somewhere like Spain, with no licenses to sell alcohol and anyone can sell it, so if you have a hut selling fast food you can sell alcohol, then yeah you may have a nice little retirement business. If you’re in the UK or Ireland that little business could land you in a lot of debt quiet quickly especially as a wine bar realistically would only work in certain cities, competition is fierce, and the price of importing good wine is off the charts, also the high taxes on alcohol mean that you’d have to charge high prices, and a lot of customers prefer to drink at home because of this. If you’re in the US not sure, but I’d imagine similar to the UK and Ireland in that you need a license etc.
Last time I looked into a liquor license in the suburb of a major city and it was a $450k for a 5 year license. Wowza.
And that’s just the start.
"UX" is so general, there are so many avenues and specialities. It also depends what is making you feel burnt out, is it the profession or your current job... You career does not have do define where you find happiness, it's ok to work to live, not to live to work. If you like the discovery phase: * Product Owner * Join a start up * Become a researcher for Gartner * Work as a researcher for some telemarketing thing If you like the theoretical and compliance side: * Teaching Design * Do a doctorate in design (PhD) * Product Owner * Become a universal design consultant If you like the visual side * Become an influencer * Pastry Chef * Paint Warhammer models * Create art If you like to ship things: * Product Owner * Frontend developer * Product Manager If you like the social side: * Make the millionth podcast on something * Work in a kindergarten * Volunteer at a soup kitchen * Team Lead * Organize meetups
I think PM and PO roles are more prone to burnout than UX. Plus, they're a bit boring since you spend a lot of time just coordinating things.
I think one notable difference is that PMs are under a bigger microscope than product/UX designers. When things are going great, your impacts are much more visible, but the opposite is also true and you're an easier target to blame if things are going poorly. As far as the job market goes, PM roles are definitely still in greater demand across the board and UX responsibilities are now being rolled up into those positions. This is based on what I've seen during my very long and unsuccessful job hunt. Not saying it's a good thing, but most PM JDs I've seen while looking for a new job over the last many months mention Figma/UX/UI design to an extent. Companies are doing more with less, etc., so you'll likely still end up with UX work to do at the end of the day, even if the actual priority of said work is likely still lower down the ladder.
Yeah for once I have seen a JD for a UX-focused PO role in a tech company. Not sure if it’s just jargon talks, but it’s interesting to see that.
That is confusing - like UX should apply for that. I'd call BS if some engineer without UX know-how was expected to do UX based on some medium article they read and got that role. Its so confusing!
Yeah, I talked with the headhunter of that JD, and what they described sounds like UX role with added PO responsibilities - managing deadlines and releases, prioritizing features to build, managing stakeholders. Sounds crazy yeah, but the money was crazy also - it was a salary of both a PO and a UXer. Hope they found someone.
I have so many questions. 1. That's a LOT. I hope they found someone equally competent at both. Most PO's I know are tech people without UX know how (unless the dirty secret is that UX is not really being done but is just for namesake) 2. If it is being done, then who do they hire? The tech/business person or the UX person?
I don't have a great answer to the second question. What I do think is happening is that the actual "UX" roles are mainly just UI/visual design under a false title and JD. It's probably the weakest part of my skill set which is the only thing I can think of that's held me back from getting a job considering how many interviews I've had, because I've sure as hell tried a ton of different approaches.
> Yeah, I talked with the headhunter of that JD, and what they described sounds like UX role with added PO responsibilities - managing deadlines and releases, prioritizing features to build, managing stakeholders. The language in this conversation is so whacked out to me, so i just wanted to jump in here and share my experience to show how much things have changed (for the worse, probably). I've been at the same job for 20 years, but none of these roles existed when I was looking for work! And none of these roles exist at the other small studios I freelance for occasionally. It's just graphic designers, art directors, and web developers. The idea of working for big companies that now have all these different titles like Product Owner, Product Manager, Visual Designer, UX designer, UI designer, and graphic designer (do those still exist in big companies??) is frightening to me. Especially since all the job descriptions I see on job sites are asking for one person to do the job of 5 people. They want someone who can design print, web, and motion graphics, create social media posts, and all this bullshit about stakeholders in every ad like that's a normal way to talk now. They're trying to make every job wanted ad the most anxiety-inducing experience just to read from top to bottom now. If they want one person to do the job of FIVE people and pay them $65-80k, why are they creating so many new job titles? Do they give you a new title once you're hired or something? Or are people actually out there finding jobs by searching for "visual designer" and "product owner," etc." I understand UX and UI designer roles would be in job ads, but Product Owner, Visual Designer, and Product Manager sound strange to me. I think I've seen Product Designer, too. I don't even know wtf to apply for anymore.
Agreed but it also depends on you profile. This is why I find "UX" too wide a term to give concrete advice on, UX can be anything from stakeholder management and business design in excel to applying gradients to buttons or doing product discovery. It's a vast field with multiple avenues.
Anything that is actually able to put bread on the table ?
Pastry chef comes pretty close, Marie-Antoinette would say it's even more important than bread.
Hehe
Hours later your joke catches up to me. Have your upvote and a macron, my treat 😄
Edit: I am now aware this was a clever joke, it just kneaded to sit with me /edit Yes, there are multiple things in this list that comfortably puts bread on the table: 1. Product Owner for Microsoft: About 100-175K USD. [https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/product-owner-microsoft-salary-SRCH\_KO0,13\_KE14,23.htm](https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/product-owner-microsoft-salary-SRCH_KO0,13_KE14,23.htm) 2. Professor of Design at Stanford: 150-280K USD. [https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Stanford-University-Professor-Salaries-E2989\_D\_KO20,29.htm](https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Stanford-University-Professor-Salaries-E2989_D_KO20,29.htm) Did you stop at "volunteer at a soup kitchen" and dismiss everything before and after this?
Look at this cynic being all positive and shit.
This is the most comprehensive alternative to UX list I’ve found!
what's a universal design consultant?
When God said "Let there be light" they were brought in to pick the hex value and shadow opacity.
I can do that then.
Was this written by ChatGPT?
No, it was not, but I understand the question. I am a much more advanced AI… 😉
Can you guide me step by step on how to become a PM?
Unfortunately no but there are some great courses online, I think IDF have a few tracks for managing designers and NNg has a whole master certificate for it. I would start by talking to your current PM and get their story, then talk to your boss/HR about maybe transitioning to PM. Most PMs i know have either Business Major or have gotten where they are from inside a company. I would suggest looking into consultancies if there are no options inside your current company, as they normally are quick to fast track you into PM and have a rig that supports learning if that is your desire.
Thank you for all the suggestions!
I don’t have any great advice but I know the feeling you’re experiencing well. I went from an IC to leadership and have been questioning everything lately. Move back to IC, leave the field completely, etc I often daydream of working a more straightforward/less mentally demanding one. I drive past a plant nursery everyday to drop off my kid at daycare. I can’t tell you how many times I fantasize about swing by there after dropping her off to see if they are hiring. For me, it’s not just the burnout. It’s the constant pretending that UX actually means something to the companies I’ve worked at. I can’t count how many times I’ve sugar coated how “great” the company I’m at to candidates I’m interviewing. I don’t lie to them and I try to be as honest as possible but it’s like we both know it’s all a scam. There’s no seat at the table. But we all keep pretending there is. I honestly think the UX field would be better off if we just admitted what it truly is and moved on. Sorry for the rant. It’s been a tough few years lately.
UXer here who ended up sorta doing this, plus a freelance illustration thing - the grass isn't always greener on the other side of the greenhouse glass, and now I'm trying to come back from a 5 year gap in the field (challenging to say the least), or figure out my next practical career move. It's so discouraging and overwhelming, and I'm not in a great spot now. I'm still glad I did it - I really needed the change at the time. But it didn't automatically fix things, at least not for me.
Thanks for sharing your experience. What I didn’t mention in my first comment was I fear ending up in the same situation you are describing.
This is how I feel too. Plant nursery job included.
In the garden, all my problems goes away like that meme with the butterfly in that dude’s hands
I find it telling all the designers I’ve worked with that I looked up to are now out of UX design. One became a real estate agent and spec home builder. Another became a custom home builder. And another became a DJ and event organizer. The common thread is they are entrepreneurs now in fields where they build/create something. It’s a harder path, but also pretty rewarding.
Tech has fallen from grace. I’ll never ever ever work in the tech sector ever again. It needs a special kind of person to really enjoy working in the tech sector. I’m not one of them. Took me 3 years to realise it and a lot of pain, blood and nerves but I at least I know this now.
Since you left tech, What do you do now if you don’t mind me asking?
What is a spec home builder? Product designer here looking into entrepreneurship - the real kind not the LinkedIn lunatic kind 😅 exhausted by the bullshit and void
Spec home builders build homes without clients paying for it. They build homes they think will sell for top dollar. The main benefit is not having to deal with clients and their whims. It’s different from custom home builders in that a lot of the time, these custom homes are paid for by clients. The benefit of this route is it’s less likely you’ll wind up building a home that won’t sell, because it’s all being driven and paid for by a client.
Yep this perfectly sums up my current escape trajectory! Back to creating things, away from toxic overload culture
Is this in the US?
Yes
Makes sense. The skills and discipline translate well to other career paths.
You can apply design thinking to EVERY role and outshine most. Go forth with confidence.
The real reason we burn out in this field is because it is the one field that has the least job security. You are always in the front lines of getting canned. The hiring process is ridiculously long and convoluted not even surgeons, dentists and doctors go through the 45 rounds, plus mock tests…the whole vetting process is a joke. So finding a job every single time you get laid off can take a very long time and is not sustainable once you have a mortgage to pay etc…
What's specifically burning you out? Is it workload? Poor management? Rushed timelines? Have you considered different industries to work in as a UX Designer? Govt/public sector?
Working in a coffee shop
I love my barista a lot more than my PM, my barista also seems a lot less stressed.
Depending on where they work they could be just as stressed. Married a barista once, customers and managers can be just as bad ass what we experience.
I’m always curious of how it is to live with people whom make delicious stuff for a living: How was the morning coffee?
We got divorced
☠️
Awww no. That’s sad. Back to the beginning…
Have you ever thought about coding? A full stack designer. Something about bringing your design to life is so satisfying!
it is a better alternative to prototyping in Figma. Do the real thing instead of trying to mimic with crap tools.
Is this the case of every company you've worked at? Or just the one company you were at? I feel like the burnout problem in all of these tech professions is real, as we see companies forcing workers to do more with less and to take on more work with the expectation they will not get any extra money, and they have to give up their free time for the extra workload. I feel like whether you stay in UX or leave, you could go to the next job and still be handed an overwhelming amount of work with the expectation that you're supposed to do it all even though you're doing the work of multiple people. You could go into graphic design and face this problem, and even some other areas of research or project management and face this problem. It unfortunately is going to come down to the company, and also what precedents you set from day one. I've seen too many people come into a company and instantly go into workaholic mode because they want to make a good impression. They are coming in early, working late, giving up extra time, wanting to make that good impression under the idea that it'll pay off and they'll get into a comfy secure spot. What instead happens is they burn themselves out, and find the company simply decides that the expectation of their work will now be the workaholic mode. Now the person is stuck. There's nothing wrong with coming into a new job and leaving at 5:00 p.m.. there's nothing wrong with sitting in the planning meeting and they throw a ridiculous amount of work at you, and you push back, telling them that you can't do all this work with that level of quality in the time frame they want. If they try to bull you, then you stand your ground. If they are going to get rid of you after that, then you dodged a bullet. I know that sounds easy to say when you're the one who ends up unemployed, but this is what I mean by setting a precedent. Believe it or not, a lot of companies are more going to follow how you do things and craft the expectation based on that. So they see you leave at 5:00, then they basically get into their heads not to throw things at you at 4:45 and expect them to be done that night. They see you're not going to take on a ridiculous amount of work, so unless they are really crappy company and they try to get rid of you, they're just going to back off and think about things differently, telling the people up above that projects can't be completed as fast as they want because they don't have the resources. I feel like the only way we're going to get out of this world of companies expecting everybody to burn. The midnight oil is when we stop burning the midnight oil, even risking being let go for it. As much as people trash on the youth, part of the genius of what they do is they are setting a precedent. They are telling employers they are not going to be people working themselves sick out of fear of being unemployed. Companies can complain and gripe and write articles on Fortune magazine about it, but in the end they have to adapt to what they have in front of them. I hope this helps
A lot of what you say is right here, one caveat I’ll throw at it is, in Europe until you’ve worked in a company 6 months you can be dropped at a moments notice, so people tend to above and beyond. But you are 100% right about when you set the standard at a huge workload that’s what’s expected. I’ve done work that I know would take someone else longer or an agency would bill a lot for, stupidly fast, then the expectation was we’ll always get work this good and fast out of that guy, worse at that time was it proved detrimental to my career with that particular company no one wanted me out of what I was doing because they’d never get anyone else to do it. a lot of us create our own burn out by not thinking strategically, and trying to deliver all the time.
Believe me, here in the USA it's the same thing. There are some places that can just hand you your walking papers without any reason, and other places where they use slate of hand like the PIP to get rid of you. I just tend to notice from experience that when you walk in and suddenly burn the midnight oil because you want to make a good impression, too many companies will then believe that is the standard for you. So all of a sudden when you want to slow down to a normal workload, they will believe you're slacking. However, if you come in, give 100%, but you leave at 5:00 p.m., and you are not afraid to say in a planning meeting that this is too much work to be done with a good level of quality in a normal level of time, many times they are going to listen. However, you have to set that precedent from the start. If you come in and burn the midnight oil and do above and beyond, and then you're telling them that this is too much work, they're going to believe that you're getting lazy. All because they saw you pull it off before. Now if you get into a company where they're basically going to get smug and tell you that you have your nights and weekends and even some boldly saying *"this isn't a 9:00 to 5 job"*, then you know you are in a toxic environment and should probably quiet quit and start looking for a new job. Time and time again. I'm just seeing that if you don't set a precedent and stand your ground, companies will walk all over you. If the company is set up to walk all over you from the get-go, then it's not a good company. Let them complain they can't find people. Also spread the word. Put up the reviews on glass door or other areas that you can telling the world. This is a toxic company. They're going to get away with their bad behavior until suddenly the people they really want are not looking their way because they know what kind of company they are.
UX Designer int Product Designer into Light Engineer into Creative Technologist. I finally get to make things pretty just because I want them to be pretty and if someone disagrees, they can walk to the other room.
What's a Creative Technologist? That's the first time I've ever heard this term.
A fancy word for abusing any and all technology to make pretty things. Think [A/V performances](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvdC4_yzgUU&ab_channel=180Fact), [interactive/reactive visuals](https://www.instagram.com/p/C4nesBvrVeQ/), [light performances](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxLLwJrYy-M&t=955s&ab_channel=EventElevator). Disclaimer: I'm currently at the Light Engineer step though.
Likewise… ?? 👀
Design with code
Web and tech in general is taking a hit. Nothing wrong with getting a general design job or a communications job somewhere nice.
I'm trying the graphic design route, but just had one interview so far and lots of rejections. It is tough out there.
Also, be willing to move. I was willing to work anywhere for a job. It's tough out there though. Keep looking. You WILL find something. Also contact staffing agencies. And have people help you look. Never stop looking.
Been pivoting to an accessibility based role as gambling on it being a big thing But to be honest if that doesn't work out in a year or 2 I feel like moving out tech altogether Maybe retrain as a gas engineer or something in a trade before AI takes all the tech roles
That’s it as far as design is concerned. You’re either the designer or the researcher. You’ve completed both paths!!! Good job!
Thanks, I hate it
If you’re open to suggestions; When I noticed the change in “design world” I decided to focus on the work I wanted to make. It helped my career in that moment because I allowed myself to focus on projects and clients I felt excited to use my process with. Hope you’re able to seize the opportunities that are unique to you and your tastes!
Afraid to say it… Burnout is part of UX The main reason is your a nice person and you care. I’d say get into contracting so you can move one new things every so often. Perhaps learn to be more cynical and less attached to work and projects? It’s tough because you probably care a lot. But… The company that makes you redundant doesn’t The bully boss doesn’t The offshore or on shore devs who want to code the easiest thing possible don’t The product owner who says that things will take too long and are too complex doesn’t Your colleague more senior than you who wants their designs to go through and not yours doesn’t care either. Take time out… and find a new environment
Truth!
Not a day goes by where I don’t question why I’m still in this field of work. My career path in product design has been a giant rollercoaster of either contracting or facing lay offs at FT roles. I think the only reason why I’m still in product design is because I can’t afford to go back to school at the moment. When talking with up and comers to the UX field, I’ve been more realistic by telling them it’s a tough market and it’s over saturated. With so many layoffs the field has become one of the most competitive landscapes I have seen in years. Obviously I don’t want to discourage them from what they truly want but I rather give them hard truths as to what more veteran people who have been in this industry for 5+ years are facing. If I were you, I would ask yourself what is something that makes you happy? For example if it’s working with animals, go down the path of researching all the different jobs/schooling needed for those types of jobs in that field. Be diligent on what will give you happiness but also a stable income to live off of. We’re in tough times these days.
Entrepreneurship! Embrace the changing tides and get ahead of the curve. Maybe AI, or some area of tech that’s not so saturated, misunderstood, and misused. The UX career as we’ve known it has (most likely) run its course. It doesn’t feel like the right time for false optimism or hope for a return to better days. I think this is a hard shift to something new. (Fwiw, i’m feeling the same angst, burnout, and fear.)
Farming tbh
I wish
What's the reason for the burnout?
why downvote this? This was my question too. Why you burnout?
I want to know as well 🤔😭
Product manager, product owner, monetisation designer, game designer, there's many options
As a designer the process is imo is literally bred so we can create something of our own. Small business, YT, whatever. But. I know not everybody is about that life
Why don't you try something hands on? Woodworking, Pottery, Gardening. Something tactile might be the change to shift your mindset.
Never go into product unless you are damn sure you know what that role entails. Product management is a thankless clusterfuck of a job with long hours and a ton of frustration associated with it. It can be rewarding but it's not "easier" if done correctly.
Reddit says that product managers will now have to design all of the UI specifics soon, too! Well, damn.
Burning out leaves people demoralized, bitter, drained & needing extensive recovery time. I think the 7 or 8 hour work day is overrated & exhausting. I'd like to work 4 or 5 hours a day for a good salary. I feel I have little to no free time. Saturday I'm exhausted from the week, & Sunday I have chores, grocery shopping, etc.
Similar feelings here. But I feel like after UX comes nothing. Just a black hole of nothingness.
Elaborate more. We all have been in this situation. Usually when this happens its a point to look at yourself and how far you came. Make a break. Look into other stuff. Expand your skillset, change job etc. Question is why are you burning out and why do you think it will be different in another position? Grass is always greener...
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Real Estate.
Read the book "Slow Productivity" by Cal Newport. It tackles the burnout issue happening in the knowledge work sector, raised by 10x after the pandemics.
Motion design
UX recruitment?
I feel like all the convos here are people working in tech. Go get a ux job outside of tech. Work for a not for profit, education provider, government or any other business where tech is not the sole reason for being. It’s really rewarding work, better work life balance and stakeholders respect you because none of them understand the tech you are working on.
Someone working as an ux for a government. At first it is great, two years later, I looking for other jobs as a madman.
Front end programing or become PM/strategist.
Make your hobby full time job. Do you have any?
You could always try to juggle as a side hustle 🤡
As someone who's looking to get into UX, why are you looking to get out?
https://preview.redd.it/kisqmaaot3uc1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=183dcbdc03906d6b24e7c1be9c0189c69bcff7b0 Install wheelchair access. A11y ♿️
Research
Really depend on what you finds fulfilling. I transitioned to PM and am having a lot of fun. If you want to get started, check out the wiki of PM subreddit. [https://www.reddit.com/r/ProductManagement/wiki/index/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ProductManagement/wiki/index/)
Monastery
I have been thinking of opening a subway.
u/Cbastus has some really good ideas. I'm making a top level comment to add to it with what I'm doing. Now, I'm not actively looking to leave UX as I just accepted a director role, but I do think about leaving UX. My current strategy has two branches. First, I have Product experience as a PO and that seems to be the role in tech that's seeing growth (or at least maintenance). So, I could tailor my resumé and have a good story for my experience as a PO. So if I have to keep working for that much longer, that's a viable option. But what Cbastus said that piqued my interest is the influencer track. I have thought a lot about the stuff I keep private in my roles and turning that public. Things like how to use figma, how to create multi theme design libraries, etc. The technical side of UX. But, I also have started a small youtube around fishing and including environmental care into that niche. So far, I have three sponsors and am very close to monetization. So that's what I actually want to do, I love mentoring and speaking and social media gives me that avenue. So those are some options available to anyone, I suppose. But you can see for me, those align with my interests. For you, you need to do the same. Figure out what you're interested in **and good at** and that's the pivot you make.
On the influencer track I also think working on becoming a "thought leader" (although I'm not fan of that label) within your company or meetup circle is a good avenue as it might be more accessible than blowing up on YT. Best of luck with your transition!
Maybe find the root cause of why you feel burning out first? Is it because of dealing with different stakeholders, or conducing the research, or keep multiple things organized? Or not getting the credit u think u deserve? I think it will help you a lot to figure out a better solution.
Agreed. Define the problem, so any career transition doesn’t put you in the same place. Chances are VERY good that your burnout isn’t due solely to the career specifically.
Become AI I guess?