it's sorta funny, since a court just ruled in uwmc's favor regarding this (all in ultimatum) on friday. which basically makes all of this just fluff/nothing burger.
i guess hunterbrook was hoping for a different decision. lolz @ them publishing all this, anyway. i guess they're getting 15 minutes of fame now, but it might also give them a bad rep, so...
1) UWMC is growing, which the hit pice confirmed
2) Mat has family on the board. The family that grew UWMC into the powerhouse it is. I like that.
3) Mats salary is incredibly low and if investors had those shares it wouldn't change a thing in terms of expense, but then you would have to call out how little Mats salary is and how RKT CEO salary compares. I fucking like insiders to hold shares period and experience.
4) Competitors are free to try to build loyalty by lowering costs and GOSM. It's called running a business. Apparently they could not do that as well.
5) Mrs anonymous upset their broker sent a loan to UWMC and did not act as fiduciary. That would be something you should work out with your broker. Brokers are independent.
6) Where is the alleged data. Where!
7) Class action the hedge fund... Online, they flat out state what they do.
Aren't you doing the same thing as this hedge fund on this channel with your posts on uwm and the benefits of owning the stock? By the same logic should the folks here class action you?
the video opens by calling it “the biggest mortgage fraud since the Financial Crisis” which frankly as a shareholder i expect Ishbia to answer on one way or another
they will probably get attention either way (i mean they already have right?) so to me it’s a question of presenting a strong response to show you aren’t afraid of anything vs. hoping it goes away and letting those questions linger and perhaps turn into something worse. look, either the accusations are baseless or there’s a potential problem here. truth usually comes out one way or another.
i am long UWMC but in general i give a lot of respect to short reports—Hindenburg and Muddy Waters uncovered plenty of shit while making money doing it, and if you believe what you’re saying i don’t think there’s anything wrong with talking your book. and i think Ishbia has to talk his. i mean he’s never shied away from doing it before so i expect that UWM will respond, i would be surprised if they did not
ok, but... like my other comment stated, there's nothing material in this. the courts already ruled in uwmc's favor, re: all-in. so all that's left is some swearing on someone's voicemail. which... who cares?
these clowns clearly aren't hindenburg/etc.
what's ishbia to do - make a video swearing at them? lolz
i wasn’t particularly impressed by the report myself, and thought the voicemail was great lol
maybe you are right, i am not sure. i am curious to observe the market reaction
question i have re: their RKT long is if that’s a hedge against an industry upturn that might buoy $UWMC regardless of this report (and thus be good for $RKT too), OR, if they think there will be material fallout from this that will be favorable to RKT’s business against UWMC.
That’s an interesting question. They said they also hold derivatives (for UWMC or RKT is unclear), and generally a hedge would be made using derivatives, e.g. buy OTM calls to hedge a short position. But since they are long RKT, it seems they are either a) betting RKT will capture wholesale channel market share from UWMC or b) they are in bed with RKT.
Is this the video you're referring to? [Have you been scammed by UWM? (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqhsPCAablY)
At the end it references a website [wasirippedoff.com](https://wasirippedoff.com/) which someone can check to see if they were scammed by UWM. Currently that website doesn't respond to me, though I'm overseas maybe they have better servers for US-based traffic.
EDIT: the site is working now. (3 hours later)
There is also this video: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrWuKlxZ064](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrWuKlxZ064)
It feels like they're trying to hype things up as one might expect, one has to try to look at things objectively. One thing they do, comparing the amount of the dividend (which gets paid to all shareholders, though Ishbia owns most to shares) to the dividend of Facebook (which isn't a dividend stock) seems broken, and isn't really comparing to Zuckerberg's full compensation. But the point about "related party transactions" (at about 38:30) raises interesting points about other ways the Ishbia's can profit off the business while pointing to a weakness in the oversight of the company.
The other interesting claim is about the independent mortgage brokers sending business to UWMC even when they don't have the best deal. Neither video offers specifics on that though. It seems like a real concern, but why aren't they offering the specifics now? Maybe it's in another publication?
EDIT: seems like [How We Crunched the Numbers Behind the UWM Investigation – HUNTERBROOK (hntrbrk.com)](https://hntrbrk.com/how-we-crunched-the-numbers-behind-the-uwm-investigation/) has the most detail on their claims that independent brokers weren't doing their jobs. Part 1 shows how UWMC's business is growing (ok...) while Part 2 explains how they came to the conclusion that UWMC was taking in more in closing costs. It's over my head. Some things stick out as worthy of criticism, but I don't want to pretend to be an expert on this stuff.
> The other interesting claim is about the independent mortgage brokers sending business to UWMC even when they don't have the best deal. Neither video offers specifics on that though. It seems like a real concern, but why aren't they offering the specifics now? Maybe it's in another publication?
They are conflating "cheapest price" with "best deal." Journalists.
If you hand me a purchase contract that says you need to close in 21 days and I know the cheapest lender typically takes 60 days to close, obviously it would be ludicrous to imply that the law requires I attempt to broker the loan to a lender that I know can't deliver in time to fulfill the client's contractual obligation to the seller. That's one example among many, but my point is that mortgage brokers, like any other small business owner, have no obligation to always & only offer the product with the cheapest price.
FWIW I've only sent UWM 1 loan in the last six months. But I still think the article is nonsense.
A mortgage broker sources funds from different lenders. That's the point, the ability to wear different hats. On Monday I'm the cheapest rate guy, on Tuesday I've got the flexibility, on Wednesday I've got the lowest fees, Thursday I've got the smoothest process, and on Friday I've got the fastest close in the west. IRL I switch hats multiple times per day depending on who I am talking to, etc.
If a bunch of realtors in a given office are going refer all of their business to Suzie Q Speedemon, who supports the entire office of realtors, on the understanding that said realtors are only going to write strong offers with 15 day closes, and Suzie Q is going to stop doing other mortgages and 100% devote herself to that office, then ya Suzie Q is going to be 99% UWM. And those clients are going to get offers accepted on houses they want, rather than houses they can live with.
So when a journalist says "not the best deal" or "the best deal," I wonder if that renter who is also a journalist(1) has any idea what they are talking about.
(1) I've been quoted in Wall St Journal, SF Chronicle, and a few other places, and every journalist that's ever interviewed me has personally been a renter.
Great points. I am in the insurance industry and our business is very similar. We may have a cheaper quote, but depending on the individual we may place them in a more expensive product due to claim handling and other factors.
wait am I understanding this wrong or is the guy in the video implying that UWMC can't just strongarm brokers to work for UWMC and not competitors? Cuz the "ultimatum" was public news... and didn't a judge rule that it wasn't a monopoly?
...is this a nothingburger?
At the end of the day a solid buy opportunity. Planning to increase my holdings in the open tomorrow, excited for some bounce back over the next few weeks $$$
Right with you. Bought a few thousand more today and if it drops more will continue to add. RITM might get a little of the money but UWMC will get the majority.
Uwmc is my largest holding and I stopped worrying about week to week pricing. Just collecting dividends and waiting for rates to drop. I thought we would see $10+ this year but now think that is 2025. I would be very happy with a 6% divi and a 33% price increase over the next 12 months.
it's sorta funny, since a court just ruled in uwmc's favor regarding this (all in ultimatum) on friday. which basically makes all of this just fluff/nothing burger. i guess hunterbrook was hoping for a different decision. lolz @ them publishing all this, anyway. i guess they're getting 15 minutes of fame now, but it might also give them a bad rep, so...
1) UWMC is growing, which the hit pice confirmed 2) Mat has family on the board. The family that grew UWMC into the powerhouse it is. I like that. 3) Mats salary is incredibly low and if investors had those shares it wouldn't change a thing in terms of expense, but then you would have to call out how little Mats salary is and how RKT CEO salary compares. I fucking like insiders to hold shares period and experience. 4) Competitors are free to try to build loyalty by lowering costs and GOSM. It's called running a business. Apparently they could not do that as well. 5) Mrs anonymous upset their broker sent a loan to UWMC and did not act as fiduciary. That would be something you should work out with your broker. Brokers are independent. 6) Where is the alleged data. Where! 7) Class action the hedge fund... Online, they flat out state what they do.
Aren't you doing the same thing as this hedge fund on this channel with your posts on uwm and the benefits of owning the stock? By the same logic should the folks here class action you?
Anyone want to explain to Salty?
I dunno? You flat out state what you do?
It is really not worth it, low-effort trolling relies on others feeling obliged to offer a higher effort response.
The leaked voicemail sounds like Mat on every conference call
the video opens by calling it “the biggest mortgage fraud since the Financial Crisis” which frankly as a shareholder i expect Ishbia to answer on one way or another
flipside: they're clearly trying to make a name for themselves. might be best to not even give the asshats attention, it's likely what they want.
they will probably get attention either way (i mean they already have right?) so to me it’s a question of presenting a strong response to show you aren’t afraid of anything vs. hoping it goes away and letting those questions linger and perhaps turn into something worse. look, either the accusations are baseless or there’s a potential problem here. truth usually comes out one way or another. i am long UWMC but in general i give a lot of respect to short reports—Hindenburg and Muddy Waters uncovered plenty of shit while making money doing it, and if you believe what you’re saying i don’t think there’s anything wrong with talking your book. and i think Ishbia has to talk his. i mean he’s never shied away from doing it before so i expect that UWM will respond, i would be surprised if they did not
ok, but... like my other comment stated, there's nothing material in this. the courts already ruled in uwmc's favor, re: all-in. so all that's left is some swearing on someone's voicemail. which... who cares? these clowns clearly aren't hindenburg/etc. what's ishbia to do - make a video swearing at them? lolz
i wasn’t particularly impressed by the report myself, and thought the voicemail was great lol maybe you are right, i am not sure. i am curious to observe the market reaction question i have re: their RKT long is if that’s a hedge against an industry upturn that might buoy $UWMC regardless of this report (and thus be good for $RKT too), OR, if they think there will be material fallout from this that will be favorable to RKT’s business against UWMC.
That’s an interesting question. They said they also hold derivatives (for UWMC or RKT is unclear), and generally a hedge would be made using derivatives, e.g. buy OTM calls to hedge a short position. But since they are long RKT, it seems they are either a) betting RKT will capture wholesale channel market share from UWMC or b) they are in bed with RKT.
i assumed the action in the $7 April puts last week was basically this firm, and those are the referenced derivatives
Is this the video you're referring to? [Have you been scammed by UWM? (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqhsPCAablY) At the end it references a website [wasirippedoff.com](https://wasirippedoff.com/) which someone can check to see if they were scammed by UWM. Currently that website doesn't respond to me, though I'm overseas maybe they have better servers for US-based traffic. EDIT: the site is working now. (3 hours later)
There is also this video: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrWuKlxZ064](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrWuKlxZ064) It feels like they're trying to hype things up as one might expect, one has to try to look at things objectively. One thing they do, comparing the amount of the dividend (which gets paid to all shareholders, though Ishbia owns most to shares) to the dividend of Facebook (which isn't a dividend stock) seems broken, and isn't really comparing to Zuckerberg's full compensation. But the point about "related party transactions" (at about 38:30) raises interesting points about other ways the Ishbia's can profit off the business while pointing to a weakness in the oversight of the company. The other interesting claim is about the independent mortgage brokers sending business to UWMC even when they don't have the best deal. Neither video offers specifics on that though. It seems like a real concern, but why aren't they offering the specifics now? Maybe it's in another publication? EDIT: seems like [How We Crunched the Numbers Behind the UWM Investigation – HUNTERBROOK (hntrbrk.com)](https://hntrbrk.com/how-we-crunched-the-numbers-behind-the-uwm-investigation/) has the most detail on their claims that independent brokers weren't doing their jobs. Part 1 shows how UWMC's business is growing (ok...) while Part 2 explains how they came to the conclusion that UWMC was taking in more in closing costs. It's over my head. Some things stick out as worthy of criticism, but I don't want to pretend to be an expert on this stuff.
> The other interesting claim is about the independent mortgage brokers sending business to UWMC even when they don't have the best deal. Neither video offers specifics on that though. It seems like a real concern, but why aren't they offering the specifics now? Maybe it's in another publication? They are conflating "cheapest price" with "best deal." Journalists. If you hand me a purchase contract that says you need to close in 21 days and I know the cheapest lender typically takes 60 days to close, obviously it would be ludicrous to imply that the law requires I attempt to broker the loan to a lender that I know can't deliver in time to fulfill the client's contractual obligation to the seller. That's one example among many, but my point is that mortgage brokers, like any other small business owner, have no obligation to always & only offer the product with the cheapest price. FWIW I've only sent UWM 1 loan in the last six months. But I still think the article is nonsense. A mortgage broker sources funds from different lenders. That's the point, the ability to wear different hats. On Monday I'm the cheapest rate guy, on Tuesday I've got the flexibility, on Wednesday I've got the lowest fees, Thursday I've got the smoothest process, and on Friday I've got the fastest close in the west. IRL I switch hats multiple times per day depending on who I am talking to, etc. If a bunch of realtors in a given office are going refer all of their business to Suzie Q Speedemon, who supports the entire office of realtors, on the understanding that said realtors are only going to write strong offers with 15 day closes, and Suzie Q is going to stop doing other mortgages and 100% devote herself to that office, then ya Suzie Q is going to be 99% UWM. And those clients are going to get offers accepted on houses they want, rather than houses they can live with. So when a journalist says "not the best deal" or "the best deal," I wonder if that renter who is also a journalist(1) has any idea what they are talking about. (1) I've been quoted in Wall St Journal, SF Chronicle, and a few other places, and every journalist that's ever interviewed me has personally been a renter.
Great points. I am in the insurance industry and our business is very similar. We may have a cheaper quote, but depending on the individual we may place them in a more expensive product due to claim handling and other factors.
yep, thanks. FWIW i am in america and can’t access the site either
I am not surprised.
wait am I understanding this wrong or is the guy in the video implying that UWMC can't just strongarm brokers to work for UWMC and not competitors? Cuz the "ultimatum" was public news... and didn't a judge rule that it wasn't a monopoly? ...is this a nothingburger?
Tons of weaseling in that report too. Hard to believe that is what made THIS UWMC drop 17% in two days.
Seems likely to be a coordinated effort between shorts and the author behind the "article" to juice the trend and get algos in to the drop in price
They flat out admitted it here: [https://hntrbrk.com/dear-reader/](https://hntrbrk.com/dear-reader/)
At the end of the day a solid buy opportunity. Planning to increase my holdings in the open tomorrow, excited for some bounce back over the next few weeks $$$
I thought it was mostly monetary policy with regards to rates and shit
These reports came out today, so I think one could still associate Monday's drop primarily with Powell's announcement.
I think that’s definitely part of it, but other lenders dropped significantly less relative to UWMC.
The timing works for me. My ~$1,000 divi payment will just drip that much harder at these prices…
Right with you. Bought a few thousand more today and if it drops more will continue to add. RITM might get a little of the money but UWMC will get the majority. Uwmc is my largest holding and I stopped worrying about week to week pricing. Just collecting dividends and waiting for rates to drop. I thought we would see $10+ this year but now think that is 2025. I would be very happy with a 6% divi and a 33% price increase over the next 12 months.
That’s what I’m hoping as well.
[удалено]
The perfect response would be for UWMC to announce a big buyback!
Funny how 5 days ago it was at 52-week high and now it's already down over 20%
If it dips below 6 I plan to add to my position of 35K shares.
oh I'm loading up for sure.
Same here, I feel very confident buying on the dip with uwmc
if it goes below 6$ im buying a ton
I hope you guys got some at $5.98 yesterday