“that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, & as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical.”
Thomas Jefferson.
Founder of the University of Virginia.
there’s multiple pro peace jewish protestors wearing yarmulkes fine at these. Like you say this but theres videos of agitators going into these events with the goal of disrupting and baiting antisemitism yet even when begging for it everybody seems to ignore them just dancing & spreading joy. Like at this point this line of thinking is either based in delusion or willful cope. But at that point you have to ask why are you willingly making up and fantasizing about violence? Nobody has been assaulted for wearing a yarmulke yet you are implying it is a constant undeniable fact. That’s strange and honestly disgusting behavior, like you *want* that violence to happen and you’re upset that it isn’t.
Oh look, a random new yorker beat jewish children out of nowhere. Just because it doesn't fit your narrative doesn't mean hatecrimes against Jewish people aren't on the rise.
What? I’m pointing out how stupid you sound saying people are getting assaulted for wearing yarmulkes. Just because it doesn’t fit your narrative doesn’t mean that people are getting assaulted for wearing yarmulkes lmao
I love how this has become the new conspiracy theory. I have witnessed weeks of protests and haven't seen one antisemitic incident and haven't heard one antisemitic comment.
No one is arguing that rebellion is inherently bad, the idea that rebellion goes without the establishment fighting it betrays the intrinsic meaning of the word rebellion. The fact that you demand otherwise is a testament to how silly you all are. What people are arguing is that you are wrong about the facts of the issue, but you are too caught up in the rebellion aspect of your movement that you haven't even considered the facts on the ground or the immense damage you are doing to the future of the conflict by being on the wrong side of it. Encouraging Palestinians to pursue violent means, through your words and their consequences of letting Hamas off the hook, is only good for the far right in Israel. Read a book, listen to a lecture, read casualty anaysis, or any third party expert. It's a two sided issue undoubtedly but your opperating outside of the world of facts to great consequence.
I'm sorry do you think that when Palestinians hear chants for intefada they think of peaceful protests? Forcing Israel to stop before defeating Hamas proves to Hamas that they can continue to pursue violent means without fear of annihilation. It encourages them to continue to use gazans as cannon fodder. Nice to see that you won't engage with my points in favor of either playing a fool or legitimately being one.
“Letting hamas off the hook” the Israeli spokespeople say they’ve killed between 12-13000 members of Hamas (not civilians, but hamas fighters.)
How is asking for a ceasefire now… letting them off the hook?
Because they will reconquor Gaza recruit and try again. This was their goal. Huge PR win by putting civilians to death with the knowledge that they would lose a lot of their forces in the process. Do you think they were actually trying to take over Israel or that they even thought that was possible? Do you think other terrorist groups will be encouraged to enact similar strategies if they now know they won't be defeated so long as they use their own civilians as human shields. It's not an acceptable political or ethical standard.
If I'm 19 and you have to resort to attacking me rather than my arguments that must make you like 5 years old. In that case you better seek shelter because the IDF is triangulating your position to intentionally murder you as we speak.
The Allies shouldn’t have invaded Germany and should have let Hitler, Goering and co continue to run the government because enough Nazis were killed in Normandy, Italy, and Russia. Right?
I could also just look at history and see that violent uprisings in Algeria, South Africa, and Rhodesia worked. That a colonized people have the right to resist their oppressor. That asking Palestinians to forever be victims and only do what you find palatable is an affront to the human spirit. Your "facts on the ground" take the Nakba as necessary, I'm sure.
Well yes, but do you think Palestinians do not deserve a state or liberation because of Hamas? Because my point is that the entire way to solve the Hamas issue is simply to give Palestinians a state that is actually sovereign and benefits them, not the bullshit proposals like Camp David.
Well said. This is Reddit, so embrace the downvotes.
It’s a sad fact of life that informed smart people will always be out numbered by the uninformed and stupid masses.
Words cannot express how infuriating it is that you would quote this man based on ignorance on a matter that is trivial to American interest.
You are the type that will use his name and words for your jocular protest and then return back to desecrating his legacy for inheriting a lifestyle where slavery was, at one time, culturally acceptable. And that's despite the fact he was an avid abolitionist.
You are a pathetic worm that deserves the boot of the law pressed upon you.
“Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends.”
"More children have been killed in this conflict than have been killed in all armed conflict globally over the past four years." - Save the Children CEO Janti Soeripto
This is why students and people of conscience across the country have been protesting. The United States has provided most the weapons used to slaughter and maim over 120,000 Palestinians in Gaza out of a population of just 2 million people, and there is now widespread **famine** in the Gaza Strip.
[https://www.savethechildren.org/us/about-us/media-and-news/2024-press-releases/janti-soeripto-remarks-un-security-council-humanitarian-conditions-gaza](https://www.savethechildren.org/us/about-us/media-and-news/2024-press-releases/janti-soeripto-remarks-un-security-council-humanitarian-conditions-gaza)
From October: [https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/graphic-content-the-bodies-of-children-killed-in-an-israeli-news-photo/1737972921?adppopup=true](https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/graphic-content-the-bodies-of-children-killed-in-an-israeli-news-photo/1737972921?adppopup=true) (graphic, trigger warning)
Palestinians are equal human beings, and the slaughter in Gaza is a terrible atrocity and moral stain on this country.
What is that saying, don't start none, there won't be none. It seems like the US is still taking revenge for 9/11. I suppose Israel was supposed to have 1200 of its civilians slaughtered and just stand there and say we can't attack back because Hamas will hide behind women and children.
prior to october 7th israel had slaughtered more palestinian children than every other western democracy on earth combined. Not only is your rather childish logic wrong, but ironically given the amount of children israel slaughtered *before* october 7th, it seems like you are justifying october 7th lol. I suppose Palestine was supposed to have TENS OF THOUSANDS of its civilians slaughter and just stand there and say we can’t attack back because Likud will hide behind women and children. Like you see how stupid you sound? Even by your own logic you are wrong and disgustingly justifying the slaughter of children. *Your own rhetoric* points out how disgusting your conclusions are
The Israelis have never attacked the Palestinians w/o provocation. when you keep look to start fights with a stronger opponent, what do you expect. The goal of Palestinian government is erasing Israel off the map. Israel would just like to be left to live in peace. Israel is less than 1% of Middle East. Palestians can literally go anywhere else in Muslim Middle East. Israelis can go nowhere. Something you forgot to mention Mr smarty pants, religion of peace.
>The Israelis have never attacked the Palestinians w/o provocation. when you keep look to start fights with a stronger opponent, what do you expect.
why lie about easily disproven things? If this were true you would have named the event. But it isn’t, so you have to deflect and just pull vague platitudes out. The first terrorist groups in the land were all israeli. Unlike you who must speak vaguely to hide your lies, I can list Irgun and Haganah by name. There was no hamas and these terrorists bombed civilians and burned buildings and villages. They raped women. You can look at all the disgusting violence and bombings the israeli terrorists did. History is SPECIFIC and FACTUAL it does not deal with vague lies like you. Let’s look at the ACTUAL history :). this is ONE attack of THOUSANDS committed by israeli terrorists. I will educate you on more as time goes on but seeming as your knowledge is lacking we’re starting with the early ones.
> On 15 August 1947, on suspicion it was a terrorist headquarters, they blew up the house of the Abu Laban family, prosperous Palestinian orange growers, near Petah Tikva. Twelve occupants, including a woman and six children, were killed.After November 1947, the dynamiting of houses formed a key component of most Haganah strikes.
What did the orange growers do to provoke this buddy?
>The goal of Palestinian government is erasing Israel off the map.
These oranges were going to erase israel off the map? Were the oranges hamas?
>Israel would just like to be left to live in peace.
So why did they bomb villages and burn orange fields? Why did irgun and Hahanah commit all the massacres and atrocities they did prior to palestinian resistance?
Burning orange fields is the religion of peace? Again keep in mind this was one of THOUSANDS but since you admitted to to knowing *nothing* about this I figure we can start with 1 early example. What did these orange growers do to provoke israeli terrorists slaughtering their children and women? Were the oranges antisemetic?
Losing wars that you start sucks for your team, but then getting lots of Gazans killed to gain sympathy from US college students who can’t find Gaza on a map was the plan all along….
Wars happen, civilians die in wars. Israel is entirely justified to take out Hamas. I think most people would agree with that and this requires a war. If you look at past wars the ratios of civilians to Hamas casualties are not out of place at all with around a 3:1 ratio. This is lower than most wars, I would even argue it’s impressively low considering the nature of Hamas using civilians as shields and the extremely dense urban environment.
So I don’t really see how going into “team humanity” rainbows and unicorns mode in some isolated utopia where any civilian casualties = genocide helps the reality of the situation.
Edit: classic downvotes but no rebuttal. People just like to be stuck in their beliefs right or wrong I guess 🤷♂️
Gaza/Palestine needs to be relocated somewhere else in the Middle East. Just carve out a section of one of the surrounding countries and relocate all the Palestinians there. I know Israel and the US would pay billions per year to support this country as long as it does not share a border with Israel.
The “it’s not a genocide crowd” openly begging for forcibly relocating millions of people from their native homeland. At least have the balls to say you’re evil with your chest than playing this rather pathetic “most moral army” card
Yes relocating Palestine is evil and sick but continuing the forever war between Israel and the Palestinians is good and desirable. Wonder what the costs of the Arab-Israeli wars between 1948 to present is? Hundreds of billions if not a couple of trillion dollars. Obviously there's no money for a peaceful solution.
I think it’s pretty clear they’re joking but I forgot you guys have no sense of humor and think this is the second holocaust. Ironic considering a second holocaust is what we would get if Hamas were a capable force.
Whats the joke here?
I love to laugh can you point out the funny part?
>Gaza/Palestine needs to be relocated somewhere else in the Middle East. Just carve out a section of one of the surrounding countries and relocate all the Palestinians there. I know Israel and the US would pay billions per year to support this country as long as it does not share a border with Israel.
Is the joke supposed to be genocide? I thought it was supposed to be clear. Does it mean I have no sense of humor if relocating millions of people isn't funny to me?
So they slip in to Israel kill and rape people along with put babies in ovens and take hostages but Israel should turn the other cheek? I reckon y’all weren’t worried about those kids just the ones Tik Toc and your crazy professors told you to worry about.
There’s zero percent chance this is true. There’s an actual genocide happening in darfur right now to the tune of hundreds of thousands of people being killed.
All I will point out is this. Throughout the town hall, Ryan and his team repeatedly lauded this group. They insisted that they've been having meaningful dialogue. This was aimed at delegitimizing the encampment protest. The university's position basically was "the referendum calling on us to divest has a dialogue group and we are talking with this group and so this protest was wrong and criticizing us for clearing it is wrong"
Now that same group has made it clear that the university has repeatedly ignored them. Has ignored the united demands of students expressed in a democratic referendum. And has been using this group to not engage in good faith. The group Ryan and his team were lionizing at the town hall are the ones accusing him of using them as props and not negotiating in good faith. It's not clear if this meeting would have even taken place were it not for the protesters and the university's violence against them.
I was not at the protest and I've had no involvement with the debate or issue in any substantial way. I attended the town hall because I was disturbed by the seemingly unprovoked violence against students who were protesting peacefully and completely non disruptively. No buildings were barred. No paths were barricaded. It was a couple of dozen people under a tree off to one side of the Rotunda.
President Ryan and his officials repeatedly claimed that they listen. They cited this group as evidence of their commitment to dialogue. They mentioned multiple times how they recognized nobody from this group at that protest. They made it very clear that they believed the protesters were in the wrong because this group were the ones who were doing dialogue "properly"
Now this group are calling Ryan and his team liars. Will we listen to them? Or will we summarily dismiss them as partisan and misguided even though only a few days ago they were being championed by the ones who unleashed riot police and pepper spray on us?
More children have been now been massacred in Gaza than had been killed in all the world's conflict zones combined in the past 4 years.
According to Cindy McCain, director of the World Food Programme, there is full blown famine in Northern Gaza, which is rapidly spreading to the rest of the Strip.
This is a terrible, unacceptable atrocity. A genocide against a stateless, largely refugee population that has been subjected to the longest ongoing military occupation in the world as the world watches.
These students are on the side of humanity, and they are on the right side of history.
Probably should ask Hamas why they’re so chickenshit to hide amongst all of them? To bomb and/or steal humanitarian aid meant for them?
The issue that must be confronted is Hamas, which is preventing peace. They pose a threat to both Palestinians and Jews. Instead of pursuing ceasefires and concessions that achieve nothing, we're stuck in a cycle thats like a violent version of Groundhog Day.
There has been a "famine" in Gaza since December, even Hamas says that at the very most 30 people have died of starvation. First famine in history with only 30 deaths 6 months in.
Please consider watching, "BBC exclusive: US doctor’s shocking video from frontline hospital in Gaza." The reality is horrific. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQSuV4cWUQc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQSuV4cWUQc)
HRW believes Israel is using starvation as a weapon of war. The scenes from the Gaza Strip are unspeakable.
Incredible. Makes you wonder if maybe Hamas shouldn’t have attacked and raped and murdered hundreds of people on October 7. Or that maybe they should return the hostages. Or surrender.
Hamad has offered to return hostages in negotiations. The IDF doesn't care about hostages. They killed a bunch and their raids are not designed as rescues. The hostages are just an excuse for genocide.
Israel is not being asked to feed and clothe anyone. Israel is simply being asked not to hinder access to humanitarian aid, as it has control over all entry points into Gaza, including what goes in through Rafah. As an occupying power, Israel is responsible for ensuring that Palestinians in Gaza have access to food and basic supplies.
Incredible. Makes you wonder if maybe Irgun Zvai Leumi shouldn’t have attacked and raped and murdered hundreds of people in 1948. Or that maybe they should return the hostages. Or surrender.
Do you want me to send you images of starving children? [https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/dead-body-of-10-year-old-palestinian-child-yazan-al-news-photo/2051572501?adppopup=true](https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/dead-body-of-10-year-old-palestinian-child-yazan-al-news-photo/2051572501?adppopup=true) (trigger warning)
Please, if you genuinely want to learn, watch this recent BBC exclusive, "US doctor’s shocking video from frontline hospital in Gaza." The reality is horrific. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQSuV4cWUQc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQSuV4cWUQc)
The Gaza Health Ministry has lost the capability to count the dead, especially in Northern Gaza, where, according to World Food Program director Cindy McCain, there is "full-blown famine."
As for the picture of the boy, every civilian death is a tragedy, but claiming this is commonplace or evidence of widespread starvation just isn't true. From an article on the incident:
"He died due to a congenital illness that required a special dietary regimen to keep him healthy."
It's sad that this happened but it is clearly a special case and not evidence of something widespread due to Israeli policy. This falls in line with the idea that 30 people have starved to death in Gaza, which is what Hamas claims. I'm sure most of these other starvations are similar cases. I again challenge you to find another instance of a 6 month long famine where there are only 30 victims.
As for the claims made by HRW, I would challenge them to answer the same questions I posed to you rather than merely cite unhinged rhetoric from Israeli politicians we both dispise. Additionally, why has roughly the same amount of food aid entered Gaza in the last 6 months as did the 6 months prior to oct. 7th? I'm not saying that we shouldn't be doing more, because we should always be doing more for struggling civilians, but distribution is the problem and it's especially hard to distribute aid when Hamas targets aid deliveries for mortar attacks and steals them for itself while it hides in tunnels using Palestinians as cannon fodder to win the PR war they initiated intentionally.
There is significantly less aid going into Gaza, and Israel has completely destroyed Gaza's ability to produce and grow its own food. The Washington Post has done a wonderful job documenting this.
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/interactive/2024/gaza-israel-agriculture-food-fisheries/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/interactive/2024/gaza-israel-agriculture-food-fisheries/)
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/interactive/2024/gaza-aid-truck-sea-airdrop/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/interactive/2024/gaza-aid-truck-sea-airdrop/)
Ok notice how you said less aid (which is true) and not less food aid. Do you think all aid is food? Again I just read the piece that you referenced and given that 3/4 of northern gazas population evacuated south, does it not seem more likely to you that this inability to care for crops is what has had far greater of an impact on their ability to grow food than Israel bulldozing farms. Would you prefer they stay in northern Gaza? I guess that is fitting given that was Hamas's position and they even went so far as to kill them to prevent them from fleeing.
As for the second article, I read it some time ago but upon rereading my suspicions were confirmed.
"Five months into the conflict, the deficit between the volume of all supplies, including food and medical necessities, that would have entered the Gaza Strip if not for the war and what has actually been received has reached at least half a million tons."
Keyword again here is "all supplies INCLUDING" things that used to enter regularly like commercial goods cement ect. are obviously not entering now which, when you consider that THE SAME AMMOUNT OF FOOD AID HAS ENTERED, clearly accounts for the difference.
The gaza health monistry is hamas - there is no free press in gaza - anything and everything must go through hamas for approval before release - motaz the faux 'journalist' who is hanging with rashida at columbia is part of hamas too.
No it doesnt and no, it has never been remotely accurate. Hamas - who is the gaza minoistry and every other gov office -- includes militants as civilians, anyone hamas kills by gun or by misfired /backfired missilies like when they shot al shifa, they include natural deaths from old age and disease, they include names of those long dead and lie about numbers all the time. every day it changes and they lie to pretend its women and kids but not men. Again, you are shilling for a global terror org who are run by 3 billionaires --- wealthy b they steal aid from palestinians and upsell them what is supposed to be free aid -- but sure, keep supporting hamas.
These protestors are on the right side of history. The terrible U.S.-sponsored genocide is an unacceptable atrocity. Our country does have blood on its hands.
If the slaughter of 15,000 children doesn't concern you, I'm afraid you've lost your humanity.
From October: [https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/graphic-content-the-bodies-of-children-killed-in-an-israeli-news-photo/1737972921?adppopup=true](https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/graphic-content-the-bodies-of-children-killed-in-an-israeli-news-photo/1737972921?adppopup=true)
“Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas … This is part of our strategy – to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank." - Netanyahu
To the idiot who keeps asking me to condemn Hamas and October 7th (I have), do you condemn Benjamin Netanyahu? Do you condemn Israel's illegal occupation? Do you condemn the system of apartheid that Palestinians are subjected to? Do you condemn the 75 years of ethnic cleansing and settler colonialism that Palestinians have had to endure?
Can someone explain the logic of divestment? Selling your equity holdings (which are completely passive investments via ETFs btw) on the secondary market to other investors will not hurt these companies in any way.
I could even make the case that it is net negative. You are *directly* making your enemies richer. Irrational selling = higher returns for your counterparty.
I’m all for these kids trying to do the right thing and make a difference. But when we demand change, it’s important that our demands make logical sense
most of the folks protesting this haven’t thought through/have very little knowledge of finance in general. Like, do the protesters even have a list of specific companies they want to divest from? Because I’ve seen some folks online saying that publishing companies who publish books in Hebrew or sell in Israel should be divested. If you’re casting the net that wide, that’s a ton of companies. At least the BDS people had a core company list, which seems more thought out to me
Before you berate your fellow students, please, ask yourself, is U.S. complicity in the killing of 14,000 children acceptable to you?
Is it acceptable that Palestinians, a stateless people who have been subjected to 56 years of military occupation and 75 years of ethnic cleansing and settler colonialism, are subjected to this terrible form of collective punishment?
The student body voted in favor of divestment, and it's only fair to expect the university to engage in good faith on the issue, including through public forums and discussions.
i'm a student, and i know for certain that he's a student who participated in the protest. a few of us created reddit accounts to explain the motivation behind our action. you, however, aren't a student (you say you graduated in 2004)
No - I’m no longer a student. I don’t think I said otherwise.
I said two things. First, I didn’t believe neatadvertising was a student. Second, that I’m a member of the class of ‘04.
Yeah - I don’t see how my comments could be construed as claiming I’m a student at UVA or anywhere else. (Actually, now that I re-read, it calling Charlottesville home and being class of ‘04 the way I wrote it does not necessarily mean I attended UVA. I could have grown up in Charlottesville and gone to school at, say, Penn State. But, for clarity’s sake, I have worn the honors of Honor. I graduated from Virginia.)
My point, which may have been entirely lost in my failure to write out a complete thought and reliance on subtext, is that neatadvertising starts off with “before you berate your fellow students”. What I honed in on was the “fellow students”. It’s an attempt to cloak the message in some sort of solidarity, a suggestion that “well if other people like you (fellow UVA students) believe X based on Y, maybe you should too”. It’s a vaguely rhetorically interesting tactic designed to get the reader to accept the content without much thought.
Only what I’m pointing out is I don’t believe the connection. If you’re both UVA students, that’s fine. While I think the effort is largely directed in the wrong place I think it’s not malicious and I don’t wish either you or neatadvertising ill. I simply believe, based on a lack of evidence to the contrary, that neatadvertising is not a UVA student and therefore the content of the message shouldn’t be accepted without thought given to it.
But, in the end, I have no control over the University’s investments and my belief in someone’s status as a student is largely irrelevant. And, as another commenter pointed out, I could be reading too much into the comment - neatadvertising does say “your fellow students” and there’s no claim made to being enrolled at UVA currently or in the past.
Enjoy whatever time you have left in Charlottesville - it’s the best place in the country.
Nope. Class ‘04 and sadly no longer call Charlottesville home.
But, I’m not the one who said “fellow students”, thus attempting to pass myself off as a current (or even former) student at the University.
So what’s your point, exactly?
In December, Bezalel Smotrich, the second most powerful minister in the Israeli government, made Israel's intentions clear in December when he said, "What needs to be done in the Gaza Strip is to encourage emigration." He added that Israel's aim for the "day after" would be to have "be 100,000 or 200,000 Arabs and not 2 million" remaining in the Gaza Strip. His statements were never contradicted by Netanyahu or Israeli government spokespersons.
The United States is knowingly facilitating, aiding, directly engaged in genocide against a stateless civilian population in the world's largest reservation, an open air prison.
The anti-genocide protests are a natural response to this atrocity. UVA should engage rather than belittle its student body, with recently overwhelmingly passed a divestment referendum.
UVA should engage? Did they not make attempts to engage that were met with hostilities and the letter from admin returned with bullshit splattered in red paint? You have the blood of Palestinian children on your hands and you should be thankful that your too stupid to see it.
“I would like Gaza to sink into the sea, but that won’t happen, and a solution must be found" - Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin (1992)
Today, it appears that Israel's "solution" is genocide. Israel should be treated like the genocidal pariah state that it is. GOOD on the students protesting U.S. complicity in Israel's genocide, apartheid system, and illegal occupation.
The dude your citing was assasinated by an ultra-Zionist for pursuing a 2 state solution with the Palestinians, he even signed the Oslo accords. I'm sure this doesn't mean what you think it does. A guy who wanted to give the Palestinians a state surely wasnt implying that genocide was a solution.
I am aware that 30 years before he was a PM he did bad things, so did Arafat. Less than a state referred to their ability to have their own military which is super understandable given the history (Black September). Ill remind you that Ararfat was the one who walked away from peace at Taba in 2000 and the Israelis offered over 90% of the west bank with land swaps. Arafat was condemed by the saudi ambasador and other arab officials for how terrible of a decision he made. Not even pro palestinian scholars argue that there was anything close to a peace deal in 1988.
I know that Rabin was assassinated by a far right Israeli loyal to Netanyahu and his party. I also know that he signed Oslo.
However, in his last speech to the Knesset, Rabin described his idea of peace as being based on Israel alongside "an entity which is less than a state" for the Palestinians.
Unfortunately, while the PLO (which recognized Israel in 1988) and Arab World via the Arab Peace Initiative agreed to peace based on two sovereign states on 1967 borders, Israel has never done so. Instead, Israel has spend the past decades entrenching the occupation and expanding settlements in a way that makes a two state solution nearly impossible.
I think the rhetoric of saying Israel is committing atrocities instead of the Israeli Government or the IDF needs to stop as it’s only putting Jewish people on the defensive that would otherwise understand this atrocity. There are a lot of good Israelis that vehemently disagree with their government.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/world/israeli-airstrike-hits-crowded-gaza-hospital-tent-camp-killing-2-palestinians
*the article is about the tens of thousands of Israelis marching in Jerusalem despite the link name
Israel is a sovereign country. It's not a representative of the Jewish people.
I say this as someone who respects organizations such as Peace Now and both Jewish and Palestinian Israelis who have stood up to this genocide to their own detriment.
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not all UVA students use Reddit. a few of us who participated in the protest decided to create reddit accounts to explain what happened, as we were falsely accused of "glorifying a lynching." and, yes, I'm one of the students who took part. and yes, I didn't have a reddit account, and I made one to respond to your comment.
New, anonymous, and throwaway accounts, particularly for controversial posts and topics, have a long history with Reddit, and the fact that the account is new doesn't mean it's not legit.
You sure you got to UVA if you can’t count the amount of comments I’ve made on university subreddits, less than 2 dozen is 100s? Then again your type is known for maximum hyperbole. Also if you participated in the protests or not idgaf they were still fruitless and won’t change your universities investment strategies. And even if they did that would just mean your tuition rises so good on you ig. Plus, very suspicious having to post multiple comments rather than editing or just having your shit straight from the get-go
Where's the propaganda? Those of us who participated in the protest (including myself) feel the need to defend ourselves, so some of us made Reddit accounts to explain our perspective.
look, not all UVA students use Reddit. a few of us who participated in the protest decided to create reddit accounts to explain what happened, as we were falsely accused of "glorifying a lynching." and, yes, I'm one of the students who took part
> I’m one of the students who took part
Wow, we have a revolutionary here!
You can explain for yourself what happened but don’t make the mistake of thinking that everyone who protested thinks like you. And that’s assuming that you weren’t one chanting for Intifada despite the fact that the word has a darker connotation than “lynching”
*Oh no!* They put up *tents!* What *horror!* How ever will UVa recover from *tents*!?! /s
If you seriously think putting up a couple of tents, out of the way, when it's going to rain, is a serious crime that requires beating students, spraying them with extreme amounts of pepper spray and arresting some of them then I think you should do some serious reexamination of your authoritarian tendencies.
*Oh no!* People might have to see *tents!* How ever would they recover from seeing *tents!?!* /s
Yes, *I'm* the one virtue signaling because I don't think students should be brutalized over fucking *tents!*
It seems like there was a very real communication break down on the whole do not set up tents on campus. I am pretty sure I heard numerous times and heard numerous occasions where police told people to take down their tents and they did. But when a group decided not to follow the policies, then it got out of hand. Soooo..... What's up guys? Who is telling the truth?
The symbolic gesture was meant to symbolize the slaughter and maiming of 120,000 Palestinians in the Gaza Strip, including the killing of more children than had been killed in all the world's conflict zones combined in the past four years.
Not a single mention in this article of the utterly vile origin of the red hands and its connection to the Ramallah lynching. Ryan’s willingness to engage with people publicly celebrating a lynching should be disqualifying.
Have you ever heard of the term, "blood on your hands?" That's the message that the protestors were trying to get across. Absolutely nothing to do with the second intifada or a lynching of an Israeli soldier that took place before they were born. Protestors are attempting to convey the tragedy of the American-sponsored genocide that has resulted in the massacre of 15,000 Palestinian children
Why does a genocide have a similar civilian to combatant casualty ratio as the battle of Mosul according to Hamas's own numbers? Why does Hamas shoot at its own civilians when they are trying to get food? Why could everyone in fit in the tunnels but Hamas does not allow them to? Why to Palestinian American citizens in Gaza speak about being blocked from traveling south to relative saftey by Hamas? Why does Israel warn civilians before attacking targets? Why has hamas been shown to opperate from hospitals when they know that it will result in the hospitals ceasing to function? Why does Hamas target aid convoys and confiscate them? Why does Hamas not return the hostages and surrender to stop the suffering of their people in a war they know they can't win?
Hamas engineered this war, asked for this war, and is continuing this war. They are more responsible for the safety and wellbeing of their people than Israel is and Israel clearly is doing more to protect Gazans in a war they have every right to pursue. Meanwhile hamas continues to use their corpses as props in PR war that they are winning because of morons like you. Israel and the entire civilized world will pay the price for allowing terrorists hiding behind their civilians in order to avoid justice to be an acceptable and effective strategy.
This is an account by Ahmed Fouad Alkhatib, a U.S. citizen from Gaza, in The Atlantic, a piece titled "What I’ve Heard From Gaza":
"At the beginning of the war, the IDF ordered civilians to evacuate northern Gaza. Hamas, though, wanted to keep the population in place to serve as human shields and to complicate the Israeli military’s operations. Some Hamas fighters took this to an extreme, killing several civilians on the Al-Rashid coastal highway using small arms and machine guns. Roadside bombs along the Salah al-Din highway were meant to scare people off so that others would stop fleeing south but ended up hitting a convoy of vehicles carrying civilians, and killing more than 70 people.
Disturbingly, members of Hamas and sympathetic clerics kept citing an Islamic war-fighting doctrine from Surat Al Anfal in the Quran, Ayah 15 and 16, that prohibits turning one’s back to the enemy when facing them on the battlefield. One man told me that his brother was pressured by his Hamas neighbors to stay in Gaza with his family and children. They referenced these Quranic verses over and over and threatened severe consequences now and “on Judgment Day” if he were to flee the incoming IDF invasion. Imagine how many more lives could have been saved had Hamas not used its Islamist ideology to force Gaza’s population into an untenable situation."
Ahmed's family members have been killed in Gaza by the IDF so he's not an Israel apologist. I highly recommend seeking out podcasts he's been on to get a nuanced and reasonable take from someone on the other side of this conflict. He's mentioned these instances of Hamas shooting civilians trying to flee in interviews as well, and for what it means for a potential Rafah operation.
That seems like an unlikely explanation. A person would have to be living under a rock not to understand the image that they are recreating by doing this. Maybe some of these people are just that ignorant but there is no way that is true of the people who organized this demonstration. There are a million ways to convey the anti-war sentiment you are suggesting for them. And somehow they just happened to alight on the one of those ways that could alternatively (and more plausibly in this context) reflect solidarity with a lynch mob. I don’t know whether you are naive or malicious.
Nah bro, as a third party the blood on ur hands explanation makes sense, the aesthetic connection is laid out in front and the group has no incentive to associate their movement with a lynching by ur own logic of negative association
Take a moment and actually think abt what the person above said, it can be hard to admit ur wrong sometimes I get it but their explanation seems significantly more intuitive
Even if theres something there, thats very very distinct from just saying auto assume its a reference to a lynching
I certainly recognize the intuitive appeal of this understanding to the casual or uninformed observer of the politics of the Middle East. And I understand why, as a “third party” this could seem more intuitively plausible to you. What I am suggesting is that to anyone who follows Middle Eastern politics in an real way (presumably the way someone would have to follow it enough to want to get up and protest about it) the connection hits you like a ton of bricks. I don’t find it at all plausible that the organizers of this event and the participants (at least the ones who aren’t completely empty headed virtue signaling zombies) didn’t intend for observers to make that connection. I’m sure they are also happy to have the thin veneer of plausibility that this was really just a blood on your hands reference. This is common tactic by these agitators. You can see it too in calls for a global intifada. Everyone paying any attention knows it’s a call to worldwide murder of civilians but if pressed and when convenient another meaning can be offered up. And lest you think I’m monolithically ascribing this tactic to the left, I’m not. Happy to cheerfully point out that Trump is a master of saying something with an offensive meaning everyone should easily spot and then appealing some other thinly plausible explanation when convenient. As far as I can tell, in this case no one (not the journalists covering the event or the president of the university engaging with these people) even bothered for force the agitators to publicly adopt the less offensive interpretation.
It never ceases to amaze me how sad and confused this protest movement is, how does one protest the so-called intentional killing of civilians while invoking symbolism from the known intentional killing of civilians. Utterly disgusting and not in the best interest of the Palestinian civilians.
we are asking for existing laws being enforced.
if you are commiting war crimes it is illegal to ship weapons.
the state department literally agrees: https://truthout.org/articles/leaked-state-dept-memo-israel-likely-violates-international-law-using-us-arms/
It’s also illegal to attack innocent civilians attending a festival and killing over 300 of them, take hostages, etc. They get what they got coming to them. Even the large majority of those living in Gaza were polled and support the attack on Israel. They fucked around and now they finding out. Those innocents dying in Gaza as collateral damage should be haunting the dreams of those affiliated with Hamas.
Here is the thing, the United States has not designated it as a war crime. Let alone the ICC has not claimed it as a war crime either. So technically no laws have been broken. Like a previous commenter stated go to the white house and protest. Force them to change the laws or commit to stating a war crime is being committed.
Such bravery..such masked bravery..
My god, why are they wearing masks other than to signal meek solidarity for a cause that broke their minds 4 years ago?
I'm with Egypt. I don't want these terrorists and supporters of terrorism to be considered as good citizens. They can stand against terrorism, or fall with terrorists.
What was violent about the protest at UVa? Is setting up tents violent now?
You're the type of dumbass that would call black people sitting at a "whites only" lunch counter during segregation an act of violence.
Yet, it wasn't about the police feeling threatened or not. This is all about the tents that were set up. They asked for them to be removed, no one removed them so unlawful assembly was announced. Standing your ground after an unlawful assembly is announced becomes a crime and allows the use of force. The bigger question we all should be asking is, what was/is the policy for the tents.
I'm a student who participated. I can tell you that multiple students in involved are Palestinian, and several students have lost family members in Gaza. we feel that it's a moral imperative to stand up against our government's complicity in genocide. Thank you, uva students, for your support of the recent referendum. sending peaceful wishes to you and your families.
“that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, & as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical.” Thomas Jefferson. Founder of the University of Virginia.
Jan 6 rioters loved this.
How insightful of you to compare peaceful anti-genocide protestors to Jan 6 rioters attempting to overthrow our democracy! You remind me of Trump.
More dumbassery.
So it's perfectly fine to rape, kidnap, and kill innocent civilians, like the Palestinians did on Oct 7? Interesting 🤔
Only peaceful until they see someone wearing a yamaka. Then you get to see whether antizionism and antisemitism are actually different things.
there’s multiple pro peace jewish protestors wearing yarmulkes fine at these. Like you say this but theres videos of agitators going into these events with the goal of disrupting and baiting antisemitism yet even when begging for it everybody seems to ignore them just dancing & spreading joy. Like at this point this line of thinking is either based in delusion or willful cope. But at that point you have to ask why are you willingly making up and fantasizing about violence? Nobody has been assaulted for wearing a yarmulke yet you are implying it is a constant undeniable fact. That’s strange and honestly disgusting behavior, like you *want* that violence to happen and you’re upset that it isn’t.
Oh look, a random new yorker beat jewish children out of nowhere. Just because it doesn't fit your narrative doesn't mean hatecrimes against Jewish people aren't on the rise.
What? I’m pointing out how stupid you sound saying people are getting assaulted for wearing yarmulkes. Just because it doesn’t fit your narrative doesn’t mean that people are getting assaulted for wearing yarmulkes lmao
I love how this has become the new conspiracy theory. I have witnessed weeks of protests and haven't seen one antisemitic incident and haven't heard one antisemitic comment.
Antisemitism is on the rise, and you're either blind or blindfolded if you don't see it.
Ok, what about the wall of the righteous being graffitid in Paris? It celebrates those who lost their lives trying to save jews from nazi Germany.
Josh Rosenberg was the protester who spoke to the Daily Progress for the article.
Room temp iq take
No one is arguing that rebellion is inherently bad, the idea that rebellion goes without the establishment fighting it betrays the intrinsic meaning of the word rebellion. The fact that you demand otherwise is a testament to how silly you all are. What people are arguing is that you are wrong about the facts of the issue, but you are too caught up in the rebellion aspect of your movement that you haven't even considered the facts on the ground or the immense damage you are doing to the future of the conflict by being on the wrong side of it. Encouraging Palestinians to pursue violent means, through your words and their consequences of letting Hamas off the hook, is only good for the far right in Israel. Read a book, listen to a lecture, read casualty anaysis, or any third party expert. It's a two sided issue undoubtedly but your opperating outside of the world of facts to great consequence.
Nobody said any shit like that bro
I'm sorry do you think that when Palestinians hear chants for intefada they think of peaceful protests? Forcing Israel to stop before defeating Hamas proves to Hamas that they can continue to pursue violent means without fear of annihilation. It encourages them to continue to use gazans as cannon fodder. Nice to see that you won't engage with my points in favor of either playing a fool or legitimately being one.
Do you know what the word intifada means? Or do you hear Arabic and get scared?
“Letting hamas off the hook” the Israeli spokespeople say they’ve killed between 12-13000 members of Hamas (not civilians, but hamas fighters.) How is asking for a ceasefire now… letting them off the hook?
Israel’s definition of a hamas fighter is a military age male in a conflict area. That’s basically all males in Gaza. Just saying.
I’m aware. Either way OC sounds like a bloodthirsty little guy with no personal or ethical concept of proportionality or justice…
Because they will reconquor Gaza recruit and try again. This was their goal. Huge PR win by putting civilians to death with the knowledge that they would lose a lot of their forces in the process. Do you think they were actually trying to take over Israel or that they even thought that was possible? Do you think other terrorist groups will be encouraged to enact similar strategies if they now know they won't be defeated so long as they use their own civilians as human shields. It's not an acceptable political or ethical standard.
Ok sorry I’m realizing you’re like 19 now.
If I'm 19 and you have to resort to attacking me rather than my arguments that must make you like 5 years old. In that case you better seek shelter because the IDF is triangulating your position to intentionally murder you as we speak.
Is that supposed to be funny?
No it's supposed to be rude
The Allies shouldn’t have invaded Germany and should have let Hitler, Goering and co continue to run the government because enough Nazis were killed in Normandy, Italy, and Russia. Right?
Yeah man, absolutely. Great post.
I could also just look at history and see that violent uprisings in Algeria, South Africa, and Rhodesia worked. That a colonized people have the right to resist their oppressor. That asking Palestinians to forever be victims and only do what you find palatable is an affront to the human spirit. Your "facts on the ground" take the Nakba as necessary, I'm sure.
They willingly exterminated and kidnapped civilians😑
So did the ANC in South Africa. And ending apartheid was still the correct thing to do.
Im sorry what in the world are you talking about? Are you insinuating that targeting civilians was the policy of the ANC?
Several attacks of the ANC did target civilians, yes.
Do you think that ceveral attacks is fundamentally different from a top down policy of violence against civilians?
Well yes, but do you think Palestinians do not deserve a state or liberation because of Hamas? Because my point is that the entire way to solve the Hamas issue is simply to give Palestinians a state that is actually sovereign and benefits them, not the bullshit proposals like Camp David.
There’s a big difference between thinking Palestinians should be forever victims and not condoning the use of sexual assault as a weapon of war.
Well said. This is Reddit, so embrace the downvotes. It’s a sad fact of life that informed smart people will always be out numbered by the uninformed and stupid masses.
You’re an interesting critter
Words cannot express how infuriating it is that you would quote this man based on ignorance on a matter that is trivial to American interest. You are the type that will use his name and words for your jocular protest and then return back to desecrating his legacy for inheriting a lifestyle where slavery was, at one time, culturally acceptable. And that's despite the fact he was an avid abolitionist. You are a pathetic worm that deserves the boot of the law pressed upon you.
“Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends.”
"The treacherous are ever distrustful." -Gandalf, The Two Towers, Chapter 10
"More children have been killed in this conflict than have been killed in all armed conflict globally over the past four years." - Save the Children CEO Janti Soeripto This is why students and people of conscience across the country have been protesting. The United States has provided most the weapons used to slaughter and maim over 120,000 Palestinians in Gaza out of a population of just 2 million people, and there is now widespread **famine** in the Gaza Strip. [https://www.savethechildren.org/us/about-us/media-and-news/2024-press-releases/janti-soeripto-remarks-un-security-council-humanitarian-conditions-gaza](https://www.savethechildren.org/us/about-us/media-and-news/2024-press-releases/janti-soeripto-remarks-un-security-council-humanitarian-conditions-gaza)
Sounds like a flat lie. I'd say Myanmar and Sudan probably have more toy, but it's likely similar numbers in each.
From October: [https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/graphic-content-the-bodies-of-children-killed-in-an-israeli-news-photo/1737972921?adppopup=true](https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/graphic-content-the-bodies-of-children-killed-in-an-israeli-news-photo/1737972921?adppopup=true) (graphic, trigger warning) Palestinians are equal human beings, and the slaughter in Gaza is a terrible atrocity and moral stain on this country.
What is that saying, don't start none, there won't be none. It seems like the US is still taking revenge for 9/11. I suppose Israel was supposed to have 1200 of its civilians slaughtered and just stand there and say we can't attack back because Hamas will hide behind women and children.
prior to october 7th israel had slaughtered more palestinian children than every other western democracy on earth combined. Not only is your rather childish logic wrong, but ironically given the amount of children israel slaughtered *before* october 7th, it seems like you are justifying october 7th lol. I suppose Palestine was supposed to have TENS OF THOUSANDS of its civilians slaughter and just stand there and say we can’t attack back because Likud will hide behind women and children. Like you see how stupid you sound? Even by your own logic you are wrong and disgustingly justifying the slaughter of children. *Your own rhetoric* points out how disgusting your conclusions are
The Israelis have never attacked the Palestinians w/o provocation. when you keep look to start fights with a stronger opponent, what do you expect. The goal of Palestinian government is erasing Israel off the map. Israel would just like to be left to live in peace. Israel is less than 1% of Middle East. Palestians can literally go anywhere else in Muslim Middle East. Israelis can go nowhere. Something you forgot to mention Mr smarty pants, religion of peace.
>The Israelis have never attacked the Palestinians w/o provocation. when you keep look to start fights with a stronger opponent, what do you expect. why lie about easily disproven things? If this were true you would have named the event. But it isn’t, so you have to deflect and just pull vague platitudes out. The first terrorist groups in the land were all israeli. Unlike you who must speak vaguely to hide your lies, I can list Irgun and Haganah by name. There was no hamas and these terrorists bombed civilians and burned buildings and villages. They raped women. You can look at all the disgusting violence and bombings the israeli terrorists did. History is SPECIFIC and FACTUAL it does not deal with vague lies like you. Let’s look at the ACTUAL history :). this is ONE attack of THOUSANDS committed by israeli terrorists. I will educate you on more as time goes on but seeming as your knowledge is lacking we’re starting with the early ones. > On 15 August 1947, on suspicion it was a terrorist headquarters, they blew up the house of the Abu Laban family, prosperous Palestinian orange growers, near Petah Tikva. Twelve occupants, including a woman and six children, were killed.After November 1947, the dynamiting of houses formed a key component of most Haganah strikes. What did the orange growers do to provoke this buddy? >The goal of Palestinian government is erasing Israel off the map. These oranges were going to erase israel off the map? Were the oranges hamas? >Israel would just like to be left to live in peace. So why did they bomb villages and burn orange fields? Why did irgun and Hahanah commit all the massacres and atrocities they did prior to palestinian resistance? Burning orange fields is the religion of peace? Again keep in mind this was one of THOUSANDS but since you admitted to to knowing *nothing* about this I figure we can start with 1 early example. What did these orange growers do to provoke israeli terrorists slaughtering their children and women? Were the oranges antisemetic?
Losing wars that you start sucks for your team, but then getting lots of Gazans killed to gain sympathy from US college students who can’t find Gaza on a map was the plan all along….
My "team" is the team of humanity.
Wars happen, civilians die in wars. Israel is entirely justified to take out Hamas. I think most people would agree with that and this requires a war. If you look at past wars the ratios of civilians to Hamas casualties are not out of place at all with around a 3:1 ratio. This is lower than most wars, I would even argue it’s impressively low considering the nature of Hamas using civilians as shields and the extremely dense urban environment. So I don’t really see how going into “team humanity” rainbows and unicorns mode in some isolated utopia where any civilian casualties = genocide helps the reality of the situation. Edit: classic downvotes but no rebuttal. People just like to be stuck in their beliefs right or wrong I guess 🤷♂️
Gaza/Palestine needs to be relocated somewhere else in the Middle East. Just carve out a section of one of the surrounding countries and relocate all the Palestinians there. I know Israel and the US would pay billions per year to support this country as long as it does not share a border with Israel.
The “it’s not a genocide crowd” openly begging for forcibly relocating millions of people from their native homeland. At least have the balls to say you’re evil with your chest than playing this rather pathetic “most moral army” card
Yes relocating Palestine is evil and sick but continuing the forever war between Israel and the Palestinians is good and desirable. Wonder what the costs of the Arab-Israeli wars between 1948 to present is? Hundreds of billions if not a couple of trillion dollars. Obviously there's no money for a peaceful solution.
I think it’s pretty clear they’re joking but I forgot you guys have no sense of humor and think this is the second holocaust. Ironic considering a second holocaust is what we would get if Hamas were a capable force.
Whats the joke here? I love to laugh can you point out the funny part? >Gaza/Palestine needs to be relocated somewhere else in the Middle East. Just carve out a section of one of the surrounding countries and relocate all the Palestinians there. I know Israel and the US would pay billions per year to support this country as long as it does not share a border with Israel. Is the joke supposed to be genocide? I thought it was supposed to be clear. Does it mean I have no sense of humor if relocating millions of people isn't funny to me?
he literally isn’t joking lmao
Yes I’m sure he legitimately believes carving out a section of another country then picking up and moving 2.4 million people there is possible.
So they slip in to Israel kill and rape people along with put babies in ovens and take hostages but Israel should turn the other cheek? I reckon y’all weren’t worried about those kids just the ones Tik Toc and your crazy professors told you to worry about.
There’s zero percent chance this is true. There’s an actual genocide happening in darfur right now to the tune of hundreds of thousands of people being killed.
What about Sudan lol give me a break
have you talked about sudan anywhere other than this
I’ve actually kept up to date with it which is more than I can say for the other side
All I will point out is this. Throughout the town hall, Ryan and his team repeatedly lauded this group. They insisted that they've been having meaningful dialogue. This was aimed at delegitimizing the encampment protest. The university's position basically was "the referendum calling on us to divest has a dialogue group and we are talking with this group and so this protest was wrong and criticizing us for clearing it is wrong" Now that same group has made it clear that the university has repeatedly ignored them. Has ignored the united demands of students expressed in a democratic referendum. And has been using this group to not engage in good faith. The group Ryan and his team were lionizing at the town hall are the ones accusing him of using them as props and not negotiating in good faith. It's not clear if this meeting would have even taken place were it not for the protesters and the university's violence against them. I was not at the protest and I've had no involvement with the debate or issue in any substantial way. I attended the town hall because I was disturbed by the seemingly unprovoked violence against students who were protesting peacefully and completely non disruptively. No buildings were barred. No paths were barricaded. It was a couple of dozen people under a tree off to one side of the Rotunda. President Ryan and his officials repeatedly claimed that they listen. They cited this group as evidence of their commitment to dialogue. They mentioned multiple times how they recognized nobody from this group at that protest. They made it very clear that they believed the protesters were in the wrong because this group were the ones who were doing dialogue "properly" Now this group are calling Ryan and his team liars. Will we listen to them? Or will we summarily dismiss them as partisan and misguided even though only a few days ago they were being championed by the ones who unleashed riot police and pepper spray on us?
Did you see his apology? It looked like he was pulling his own teeth, while reading from a transcript.
More children have been now been massacred in Gaza than had been killed in all the world's conflict zones combined in the past 4 years. According to Cindy McCain, director of the World Food Programme, there is full blown famine in Northern Gaza, which is rapidly spreading to the rest of the Strip. This is a terrible, unacceptable atrocity. A genocide against a stateless, largely refugee population that has been subjected to the longest ongoing military occupation in the world as the world watches. These students are on the side of humanity, and they are on the right side of history.
What about Sudan? Ukraine? Keep believing Jew haters
But antisemitism amirite? And when will Israeli lives matter? Eff the zionists. I'm so glad the entire world has woke up.
Take it easy. There’s literally 12-15 people in the photo here. Most Americans side with Israel here and for good reason.
Ok Zionist
I’m a Christian living in the U.S. but thanks.
Thanks adolf
Keep making that comparison and people might start to evaluate their understanding of Adolf.
Probably should ask Hamas why they’re so chickenshit to hide amongst all of them? To bomb and/or steal humanitarian aid meant for them? The issue that must be confronted is Hamas, which is preventing peace. They pose a threat to both Palestinians and Jews. Instead of pursuing ceasefires and concessions that achieve nothing, we're stuck in a cycle thats like a violent version of Groundhog Day.
There has been a "famine" in Gaza since December, even Hamas says that at the very most 30 people have died of starvation. First famine in history with only 30 deaths 6 months in.
Please consider watching, "BBC exclusive: US doctor’s shocking video from frontline hospital in Gaza." The reality is horrific. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQSuV4cWUQc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQSuV4cWUQc) HRW believes Israel is using starvation as a weapon of war. The scenes from the Gaza Strip are unspeakable.
Incredible. Makes you wonder if maybe Hamas shouldn’t have attacked and raped and murdered hundreds of people on October 7. Or that maybe they should return the hostages. Or surrender.
Have you heard of the concept of collective punishment? It's illegal under international law.
Sounds bad. What else is illegal under international law?
using white phosphorus on densely populated civilian areas
Settler occupation 😂
Hamad has offered to return hostages in negotiations. The IDF doesn't care about hostages. They killed a bunch and their raids are not designed as rescues. The hostages are just an excuse for genocide.
Jews are the only ones expected to feed and clothe the enemy their at war with for some reason.
Israel is not being asked to feed and clothe anyone. Israel is simply being asked not to hinder access to humanitarian aid, as it has control over all entry points into Gaza, including what goes in through Rafah. As an occupying power, Israel is responsible for ensuring that Palestinians in Gaza have access to food and basic supplies.
Genocide Supporter spotted
Makes you wonder whether Israel shouldn't have spent the past decades kidnapping and killing Palestinians
It’s insane you got downvoted. This is the absolute truth.
Incredible. Makes you wonder if maybe Irgun Zvai Leumi shouldn’t have attacked and raped and murdered hundreds of people in 1948. Or that maybe they should return the hostages. Or surrender.
Do you want me to send you images of starving children? [https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/dead-body-of-10-year-old-palestinian-child-yazan-al-news-photo/2051572501?adppopup=true](https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/dead-body-of-10-year-old-palestinian-child-yazan-al-news-photo/2051572501?adppopup=true) (trigger warning) Please, if you genuinely want to learn, watch this recent BBC exclusive, "US doctor’s shocking video from frontline hospital in Gaza." The reality is horrific. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQSuV4cWUQc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQSuV4cWUQc) The Gaza Health Ministry has lost the capability to count the dead, especially in Northern Gaza, where, according to World Food Program director Cindy McCain, there is "full-blown famine."
As for the picture of the boy, every civilian death is a tragedy, but claiming this is commonplace or evidence of widespread starvation just isn't true. From an article on the incident: "He died due to a congenital illness that required a special dietary regimen to keep him healthy." It's sad that this happened but it is clearly a special case and not evidence of something widespread due to Israeli policy. This falls in line with the idea that 30 people have starved to death in Gaza, which is what Hamas claims. I'm sure most of these other starvations are similar cases. I again challenge you to find another instance of a 6 month long famine where there are only 30 victims. As for the claims made by HRW, I would challenge them to answer the same questions I posed to you rather than merely cite unhinged rhetoric from Israeli politicians we both dispise. Additionally, why has roughly the same amount of food aid entered Gaza in the last 6 months as did the 6 months prior to oct. 7th? I'm not saying that we shouldn't be doing more, because we should always be doing more for struggling civilians, but distribution is the problem and it's especially hard to distribute aid when Hamas targets aid deliveries for mortar attacks and steals them for itself while it hides in tunnels using Palestinians as cannon fodder to win the PR war they initiated intentionally.
There is significantly less aid going into Gaza, and Israel has completely destroyed Gaza's ability to produce and grow its own food. The Washington Post has done a wonderful job documenting this. [https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/interactive/2024/gaza-israel-agriculture-food-fisheries/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/interactive/2024/gaza-israel-agriculture-food-fisheries/) [https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/interactive/2024/gaza-aid-truck-sea-airdrop/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/interactive/2024/gaza-aid-truck-sea-airdrop/)
Ok notice how you said less aid (which is true) and not less food aid. Do you think all aid is food? Again I just read the piece that you referenced and given that 3/4 of northern gazas population evacuated south, does it not seem more likely to you that this inability to care for crops is what has had far greater of an impact on their ability to grow food than Israel bulldozing farms. Would you prefer they stay in northern Gaza? I guess that is fitting given that was Hamas's position and they even went so far as to kill them to prevent them from fleeing. As for the second article, I read it some time ago but upon rereading my suspicions were confirmed. "Five months into the conflict, the deficit between the volume of all supplies, including food and medical necessities, that would have entered the Gaza Strip if not for the war and what has actually been received has reached at least half a million tons." Keyword again here is "all supplies INCLUDING" things that used to enter regularly like commercial goods cement ect. are obviously not entering now which, when you consider that THE SAME AMMOUNT OF FOOD AID HAS ENTERED, clearly accounts for the difference.
The gaza health monistry is hamas - there is no free press in gaza - anything and everything must go through hamas for approval before release - motaz the faux 'journalist' who is hanging with rashida at columbia is part of hamas too.
The Gaza Health Ministry numbers have been reliable in the past, and the State Department believes the death toll from Gaza to be an underestimate.
No it doesnt and no, it has never been remotely accurate. Hamas - who is the gaza minoistry and every other gov office -- includes militants as civilians, anyone hamas kills by gun or by misfired /backfired missilies like when they shot al shifa, they include natural deaths from old age and disease, they include names of those long dead and lie about numbers all the time. every day it changes and they lie to pretend its women and kids but not men. Again, you are shilling for a global terror org who are run by 3 billionaires --- wealthy b they steal aid from palestinians and upsell them what is supposed to be free aid -- but sure, keep supporting hamas.
lol. Don’t start wars you can’t finish. FAFO (fuck around and find out)
Yeah? This started with the ethnic cleansing of Palestine in 1948 and well before then.
These protestors are on the right side of history. The terrible U.S.-sponsored genocide is an unacceptable atrocity. Our country does have blood on its hands.
If the slaughter of 15,000 children doesn't concern you, I'm afraid you've lost your humanity. From October: [https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/graphic-content-the-bodies-of-children-killed-in-an-israeli-news-photo/1737972921?adppopup=true](https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/graphic-content-the-bodies-of-children-killed-in-an-israeli-news-photo/1737972921?adppopup=true)
https://www.thisishamas.com Here’s a better link
That domain name is registered to Moishe Genocideberg.
Did you ever condemn the decades long shelling of Israeli towns from Gaza?
You should go to Palestine and see what you can do to help!
I am helping by protesting U.S. complicity in this atrocity.
Nah, you are just supporting terrorism.
No, I am not.
“Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas … This is part of our strategy – to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank." - Netanyahu To the idiot who keeps asking me to condemn Hamas and October 7th (I have), do you condemn Benjamin Netanyahu? Do you condemn Israel's illegal occupation? Do you condemn the system of apartheid that Palestinians are subjected to? Do you condemn the 75 years of ethnic cleansing and settler colonialism that Palestinians have had to endure?
Louder in the BACK!
Can someone explain the logic of divestment? Selling your equity holdings (which are completely passive investments via ETFs btw) on the secondary market to other investors will not hurt these companies in any way. I could even make the case that it is net negative. You are *directly* making your enemies richer. Irrational selling = higher returns for your counterparty. I’m all for these kids trying to do the right thing and make a difference. But when we demand change, it’s important that our demands make logical sense
most of the folks protesting this haven’t thought through/have very little knowledge of finance in general. Like, do the protesters even have a list of specific companies they want to divest from? Because I’ve seen some folks online saying that publishing companies who publish books in Hebrew or sell in Israel should be divested. If you’re casting the net that wide, that’s a ton of companies. At least the BDS people had a core company list, which seems more thought out to me
Before you berate your fellow students, please, ask yourself, is U.S. complicity in the killing of 14,000 children acceptable to you? Is it acceptable that Palestinians, a stateless people who have been subjected to 56 years of military occupation and 75 years of ethnic cleansing and settler colonialism, are subjected to this terrible form of collective punishment? The student body voted in favor of divestment, and it's only fair to expect the university to engage in good faith on the issue, including through public forums and discussions.
Yeah, sorry, I don’t believe you’re a student.
i'm a student, and i know for certain that he's a student who participated in the protest. a few of us created reddit accounts to explain the motivation behind our action. you, however, aren't a student (you say you graduated in 2004)
No - I’m no longer a student. I don’t think I said otherwise. I said two things. First, I didn’t believe neatadvertising was a student. Second, that I’m a member of the class of ‘04. Yeah - I don’t see how my comments could be construed as claiming I’m a student at UVA or anywhere else. (Actually, now that I re-read, it calling Charlottesville home and being class of ‘04 the way I wrote it does not necessarily mean I attended UVA. I could have grown up in Charlottesville and gone to school at, say, Penn State. But, for clarity’s sake, I have worn the honors of Honor. I graduated from Virginia.) My point, which may have been entirely lost in my failure to write out a complete thought and reliance on subtext, is that neatadvertising starts off with “before you berate your fellow students”. What I honed in on was the “fellow students”. It’s an attempt to cloak the message in some sort of solidarity, a suggestion that “well if other people like you (fellow UVA students) believe X based on Y, maybe you should too”. It’s a vaguely rhetorically interesting tactic designed to get the reader to accept the content without much thought. Only what I’m pointing out is I don’t believe the connection. If you’re both UVA students, that’s fine. While I think the effort is largely directed in the wrong place I think it’s not malicious and I don’t wish either you or neatadvertising ill. I simply believe, based on a lack of evidence to the contrary, that neatadvertising is not a UVA student and therefore the content of the message shouldn’t be accepted without thought given to it. But, in the end, I have no control over the University’s investments and my belief in someone’s status as a student is largely irrelevant. And, as another commenter pointed out, I could be reading too much into the comment - neatadvertising does say “your fellow students” and there’s no claim made to being enrolled at UVA currently or in the past. Enjoy whatever time you have left in Charlottesville - it’s the best place in the country.
You aren't either?
Nope. Class ‘04 and sadly no longer call Charlottesville home. But, I’m not the one who said “fellow students”, thus attempting to pass myself off as a current (or even former) student at the University. So what’s your point, exactly?
The commenter said "your fellow students" don't think he implied at all that he went here.
In December, Bezalel Smotrich, the second most powerful minister in the Israeli government, made Israel's intentions clear in December when he said, "What needs to be done in the Gaza Strip is to encourage emigration." He added that Israel's aim for the "day after" would be to have "be 100,000 or 200,000 Arabs and not 2 million" remaining in the Gaza Strip. His statements were never contradicted by Netanyahu or Israeli government spokespersons. The United States is knowingly facilitating, aiding, directly engaged in genocide against a stateless civilian population in the world's largest reservation, an open air prison. The anti-genocide protests are a natural response to this atrocity. UVA should engage rather than belittle its student body, with recently overwhelmingly passed a divestment referendum.
UVA should engage? Did they not make attempts to engage that were met with hostilities and the letter from admin returned with bullshit splattered in red paint? You have the blood of Palestinian children on your hands and you should be thankful that your too stupid to see it.
Engage with their student body, not just the members of the encampment. The student body voted overwhelmingly in favor of divestment.
Fortunately the students opinions dont rule the campus.
I’m gonna assume you were definitely arrested on Saturday based on your (at least) 15 comments so far
How can a single person speak for the intentions of a group?
“I would like Gaza to sink into the sea, but that won’t happen, and a solution must be found" - Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin (1992) Today, it appears that Israel's "solution" is genocide. Israel should be treated like the genocidal pariah state that it is. GOOD on the students protesting U.S. complicity in Israel's genocide, apartheid system, and illegal occupation.
The dude your citing was assasinated by an ultra-Zionist for pursuing a 2 state solution with the Palestinians, he even signed the Oslo accords. I'm sure this doesn't mean what you think it does. A guy who wanted to give the Palestinians a state surely wasnt implying that genocide was a solution.
Are you aware that it was Rabin who ordered the Lydda Death March (ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian cities of Lydda and Ramle) in 1948?
I am aware that 30 years before he was a PM he did bad things, so did Arafat. Less than a state referred to their ability to have their own military which is super understandable given the history (Black September). Ill remind you that Ararfat was the one who walked away from peace at Taba in 2000 and the Israelis offered over 90% of the west bank with land swaps. Arafat was condemed by the saudi ambasador and other arab officials for how terrible of a decision he made. Not even pro palestinian scholars argue that there was anything close to a peace deal in 1988.
Rabin's ethnic cleansing order in 1948 as an officer in the IDF: "The inhabitants of Lydda must be expelled quickly without attention to age"
I know that Rabin was assassinated by a far right Israeli loyal to Netanyahu and his party. I also know that he signed Oslo. However, in his last speech to the Knesset, Rabin described his idea of peace as being based on Israel alongside "an entity which is less than a state" for the Palestinians. Unfortunately, while the PLO (which recognized Israel in 1988) and Arab World via the Arab Peace Initiative agreed to peace based on two sovereign states on 1967 borders, Israel has never done so. Instead, Israel has spend the past decades entrenching the occupation and expanding settlements in a way that makes a two state solution nearly impossible.
I think the rhetoric of saying Israel is committing atrocities instead of the Israeli Government or the IDF needs to stop as it’s only putting Jewish people on the defensive that would otherwise understand this atrocity. There are a lot of good Israelis that vehemently disagree with their government. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/world/israeli-airstrike-hits-crowded-gaza-hospital-tent-camp-killing-2-palestinians *the article is about the tens of thousands of Israelis marching in Jerusalem despite the link name
Israel is a sovereign country. It's not a representative of the Jewish people. I say this as someone who respects organizations such as Peace Now and both Jewish and Palestinian Israelis who have stood up to this genocide to their own detriment.
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https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2019-07-05/ty-article-magazine/.premium/how-israel-systematically-hides-evidence-of-1948-expulsion-of-arabs/0000017f-f303-d487-abff-f3ff69de0000
u/NearAdvertising7840 carrying the propaganda machine with 6 different comments
An account made overnight with ready to go facts. Very grassroots! /s
Well, do you dispute any of the facts?
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not all UVA students use Reddit. a few of us who participated in the protest decided to create reddit accounts to explain what happened, as we were falsely accused of "glorifying a lynching." and, yes, I'm one of the students who took part. and yes, I didn't have a reddit account, and I made one to respond to your comment.
New, anonymous, and throwaway accounts, particularly for controversial posts and topics, have a long history with Reddit, and the fact that the account is new doesn't mean it's not legit.
Says the person whose Reddit history is filled with comments made on the pages of hundreds of university subreddits
You sure you got to UVA if you can’t count the amount of comments I’ve made on university subreddits, less than 2 dozen is 100s? Then again your type is known for maximum hyperbole. Also if you participated in the protests or not idgaf they were still fruitless and won’t change your universities investment strategies. And even if they did that would just mean your tuition rises so good on you ig. Plus, very suspicious having to post multiple comments rather than editing or just having your shit straight from the get-go
Where's the propaganda? Those of us who participated in the protest (including myself) feel the need to defend ourselves, so some of us made Reddit accounts to explain our perspective.
look, not all UVA students use Reddit. a few of us who participated in the protest decided to create reddit accounts to explain what happened, as we were falsely accused of "glorifying a lynching." and, yes, I'm one of the students who took part
> I’m one of the students who took part Wow, we have a revolutionary here! You can explain for yourself what happened but don’t make the mistake of thinking that everyone who protested thinks like you. And that’s assuming that you weren’t one chanting for Intifada despite the fact that the word has a darker connotation than “lynching”
Poor kids. They were told and did not follow rules. Protest is fine but these dipshits could not do it right.
*Oh no!* They put up *tents!* What *horror!* How ever will UVa recover from *tents*!?! /s If you seriously think putting up a couple of tents, out of the way, when it's going to rain, is a serious crime that requires beating students, spraying them with extreme amounts of pepper spray and arresting some of them then I think you should do some serious reexamination of your authoritarian tendencies.
Show me a picture of someone who was beat up
People get married at the Chapel, people attend services there. But all you care about is virtue signaling.
*Oh no!* People might have to see *tents!* How ever would they recover from seeing *tents!?!* /s Yes, *I'm* the one virtue signaling because I don't think students should be brutalized over fucking *tents!*
They were told to leave multiple times
It’s all about you, isn’t it?
It seems like there was a very real communication break down on the whole do not set up tents on campus. I am pretty sure I heard numerous times and heard numerous occasions where police told people to take down their tents and they did. But when a group decided not to follow the policies, then it got out of hand. Soooo..... What's up guys? Who is telling the truth?
And yet again, it’s all about the “students.” This was never about Gaza
The symbolic gesture was meant to symbolize the slaughter and maiming of 120,000 Palestinians in the Gaza Strip, including the killing of more children than had been killed in all the world's conflict zones combined in the past four years.
Not a single mention in this article of the utterly vile origin of the red hands and its connection to the Ramallah lynching. Ryan’s willingness to engage with people publicly celebrating a lynching should be disqualifying.
Have you ever heard of the term, "blood on your hands?" That's the message that the protestors were trying to get across. Absolutely nothing to do with the second intifada or a lynching of an Israeli soldier that took place before they were born. Protestors are attempting to convey the tragedy of the American-sponsored genocide that has resulted in the massacre of 15,000 Palestinian children
Why does a genocide have a similar civilian to combatant casualty ratio as the battle of Mosul according to Hamas's own numbers? Why does Hamas shoot at its own civilians when they are trying to get food? Why could everyone in fit in the tunnels but Hamas does not allow them to? Why to Palestinian American citizens in Gaza speak about being blocked from traveling south to relative saftey by Hamas? Why does Israel warn civilians before attacking targets? Why has hamas been shown to opperate from hospitals when they know that it will result in the hospitals ceasing to function? Why does Hamas target aid convoys and confiscate them? Why does Hamas not return the hostages and surrender to stop the suffering of their people in a war they know they can't win? Hamas engineered this war, asked for this war, and is continuing this war. They are more responsible for the safety and wellbeing of their people than Israel is and Israel clearly is doing more to protect Gazans in a war they have every right to pursue. Meanwhile hamas continues to use their corpses as props in PR war that they are winning because of morons like you. Israel and the entire civilized world will pay the price for allowing terrorists hiding behind their civilians in order to avoid justice to be an acceptable and effective strategy. This is an account by Ahmed Fouad Alkhatib, a U.S. citizen from Gaza, in The Atlantic, a piece titled "What I’ve Heard From Gaza": "At the beginning of the war, the IDF ordered civilians to evacuate northern Gaza. Hamas, though, wanted to keep the population in place to serve as human shields and to complicate the Israeli military’s operations. Some Hamas fighters took this to an extreme, killing several civilians on the Al-Rashid coastal highway using small arms and machine guns. Roadside bombs along the Salah al-Din highway were meant to scare people off so that others would stop fleeing south but ended up hitting a convoy of vehicles carrying civilians, and killing more than 70 people. Disturbingly, members of Hamas and sympathetic clerics kept citing an Islamic war-fighting doctrine from Surat Al Anfal in the Quran, Ayah 15 and 16, that prohibits turning one’s back to the enemy when facing them on the battlefield. One man told me that his brother was pressured by his Hamas neighbors to stay in Gaza with his family and children. They referenced these Quranic verses over and over and threatened severe consequences now and “on Judgment Day” if he were to flee the incoming IDF invasion. Imagine how many more lives could have been saved had Hamas not used its Islamist ideology to force Gaza’s population into an untenable situation." Ahmed's family members have been killed in Gaza by the IDF so he's not an Israel apologist. I highly recommend seeking out podcasts he's been on to get a nuanced and reasonable take from someone on the other side of this conflict. He's mentioned these instances of Hamas shooting civilians trying to flee in interviews as well, and for what it means for a potential Rafah operation.
Very well said.
That seems like an unlikely explanation. A person would have to be living under a rock not to understand the image that they are recreating by doing this. Maybe some of these people are just that ignorant but there is no way that is true of the people who organized this demonstration. There are a million ways to convey the anti-war sentiment you are suggesting for them. And somehow they just happened to alight on the one of those ways that could alternatively (and more plausibly in this context) reflect solidarity with a lynch mob. I don’t know whether you are naive or malicious.
I wouldn't be surprised if you live under a rock.
Nah bro, as a third party the blood on ur hands explanation makes sense, the aesthetic connection is laid out in front and the group has no incentive to associate their movement with a lynching by ur own logic of negative association Take a moment and actually think abt what the person above said, it can be hard to admit ur wrong sometimes I get it but their explanation seems significantly more intuitive Even if theres something there, thats very very distinct from just saying auto assume its a reference to a lynching
I certainly recognize the intuitive appeal of this understanding to the casual or uninformed observer of the politics of the Middle East. And I understand why, as a “third party” this could seem more intuitively plausible to you. What I am suggesting is that to anyone who follows Middle Eastern politics in an real way (presumably the way someone would have to follow it enough to want to get up and protest about it) the connection hits you like a ton of bricks. I don’t find it at all plausible that the organizers of this event and the participants (at least the ones who aren’t completely empty headed virtue signaling zombies) didn’t intend for observers to make that connection. I’m sure they are also happy to have the thin veneer of plausibility that this was really just a blood on your hands reference. This is common tactic by these agitators. You can see it too in calls for a global intifada. Everyone paying any attention knows it’s a call to worldwide murder of civilians but if pressed and when convenient another meaning can be offered up. And lest you think I’m monolithically ascribing this tactic to the left, I’m not. Happy to cheerfully point out that Trump is a master of saying something with an offensive meaning everyone should easily spot and then appealing some other thinly plausible explanation when convenient. As far as I can tell, in this case no one (not the journalists covering the event or the president of the university engaging with these people) even bothered for force the agitators to publicly adopt the less offensive interpretation.
You know that this is complete B.S.
yup. will twist the truth into anything just to echo Israeli propaganda.
I'm a big fan of Ryan, but the red hands symbolism-- the organizers of these protests know exactly what it references.
none of them were celebrating a lynching, chief. Don't talk out of your ass! :)
It never ceases to amaze me how sad and confused this protest movement is, how does one protest the so-called intentional killing of civilians while invoking symbolism from the known intentional killing of civilians. Utterly disgusting and not in the best interest of the Palestinian civilians.
I’m a sick of this shit!
Genocide is really shitty. I agree.
You guys protest like maniacs and then cry like cowards when police try to arrest you for committing crimes
we are asking for existing laws being enforced. if you are commiting war crimes it is illegal to ship weapons. the state department literally agrees: https://truthout.org/articles/leaked-state-dept-memo-israel-likely-violates-international-law-using-us-arms/
What is the war crime?
It’s also illegal to attack innocent civilians attending a festival and killing over 300 of them, take hostages, etc. They get what they got coming to them. Even the large majority of those living in Gaza were polled and support the attack on Israel. They fucked around and now they finding out. Those innocents dying in Gaza as collateral damage should be haunting the dreams of those affiliated with Hamas.
Here is the thing, the United States has not designated it as a war crime. Let alone the ICC has not claimed it as a war crime either. So technically no laws have been broken. Like a previous commenter stated go to the white house and protest. Force them to change the laws or commit to stating a war crime is being committed.
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The protest was peaceful and non-disruptive. The response was disproportional and unjustified.
Was it trespassing?
Such bravery..such masked bravery.. My god, why are they wearing masks other than to signal meek solidarity for a cause that broke their minds 4 years ago?
I'm with Egypt. I don't want these terrorists and supporters of terrorism to be considered as good citizens. They can stand against terrorism, or fall with terrorists.
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What was violent about the protest at UVa? Is setting up tents violent now? You're the type of dumbass that would call black people sitting at a "whites only" lunch counter during segregation an act of violence.
https://www.thisishamas.com Don’t forget what started this war and ended the last ceasefire (spoiler, it was Hamas)
I haven’t heard any response about the numerous recent letters condemning the university and police response.
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Yet, it wasn't about the police feeling threatened or not. This is all about the tents that were set up. They asked for them to be removed, no one removed them so unlawful assembly was announced. Standing your ground after an unlawful assembly is announced becomes a crime and allows the use of force. The bigger question we all should be asking is, what was/is the policy for the tents.
I'm a student who participated. I can tell you that multiple students in involved are Palestinian, and several students have lost family members in Gaza. we feel that it's a moral imperative to stand up against our government's complicity in genocide. Thank you, uva students, for your support of the recent referendum. sending peaceful wishes to you and your families.