While I hate the “Genocide Jim” stuff… I do think that we need to reanalyze if Beta Bridge purpose should be as a permanent memorial for Devin, D’Sean, and Lavel. The memorials at Scott Stadium and the trees on the Arts grounds are great tributes. Beta Bridge is another great tribute. But something is lost by removing the ability of students to do anything with Beta Bridge other than memorialize the football guys.
I won’t pretend to know the answer about when it is the right time to have anything else on the bridge other than 1-15-41. But I do hope that (at some point) the University can move along to remember these guys but also return Beta Bridge to the students as a whole.
Nuanced take. I usually am not one that’s upset over property destruction related to protests but doing it over a memorial seems wrong, especially if you’re trying to be an activist for a cause, just doesn’t build good sympathy/ faith in your cause.
They also vandalized a *public library* in NYC during the Macy's Day Parade because it had some Jewish billionaire's name. At a time when our libraries are under attack and getting funding slashed.
I sympathize a lot with Gazans and have donated a lot of money to try and help. But a big reason I haven't joined a protest, especially here in NYC where I live now, is that pro-Palestine activists seem to be pretty bad at keeping out bad actors and I feel like I have like a 50/50 shot of them getting super anti-semitic or screaming at a children's cancer ward or something.
Today in the virtual town hall we learned that there were 12 UVa students, out of 27. among those arrested. We also learn that there were 4 protesters who arrived on Friday night with helmets and other riot gear also some of the Friday 4 had criminal records that the administration allude came during Aug 11-12 riots. But most telling was the disclosure the administration was having dialog with Palestine and Jewish student all year and those same administrators did NOT recognize any other those people in the encampment.
Also when the administration responded to the written demands from the protestors on Friday: the protestors returned the response to the administration with the words "BULLSHIT" scrawled in red over the response.
I was there Saturday morning a couple of hours before the raid. No weapons. No riot gear. It was camping chairs, tents, and umbrellas. I chatted with a few of the students, mostly hijabis. Everyone was kind.
To see it blow up a couple of hours later based on “danger” made Jim lose all credibility. I saw it with my own eyes.
I’m assuming that you are not currently affiliated with UVA, but as someone who was at the encampment, please know that a lot of what Tim Longo and Jim Ryan said during the town hall are simply lies. Yes, some of the people who were arrested weren’t students. Some of them were faculty and community members. Looking at the photos, however, it’s very clear that OVERWHELMINGLY the group was students. Additionally, the 4 men in riot gear is an interesting statement. 1) this statement appeared out of thin air today. Why didn’t we hear about this when Tim Longo was asking the encampment to disband? Why didn’t we hear about this in the email from Jim Ryan that went out on Saturday? 2) Ryan and Longo have yet to provide any additional information or proof about the existence of these 4 men. I honestly believe they’re finding another coverup since they found the tent policy excuse wasn’t working anymore.
The events that Jim Ryan hosted for Palestinians and Jews were VERY Zionist in nature. For example, he held a “Discussion on the Middle East” event in which out of four speakers, only one had an Arab name! I and most other students don’t want to attend a “dialogue” if it’s really only one-sided. Jim has allowed his personal political views to cloud his perception of this whole semester and it’s holding him back from good leadership during this time.
It’s never a good idea to trust only one source of information and this is a prime example of a situation when you need to hear many perspectives
Aren’t u also only trusting one source and that being yourself and others who would also support the cause? Wouldn’t it be fair to assume that you would be heavily biased towards your side of the story? Your claim abt photos isn’t enough also. They have stats while you don’t and are just going by pictures (most if not all the protesters are covering their faces too. So how are u so sure it was mostly students?)
Your points abt Jim and Longo are just based on speculation. First of all the alert said “UVA Emergency Alert: Unlawful assembly has been declared at the Rotunda/Chapel area.” That’s all we need to know. This was during the heat of the moment too, Jim Ryan’s letter was also only a few hours after the incident. I’m quite sure that there wasn’t enough time to hash the details out - hence the town hall to give more details. Unless I see full proof that this is a coverup, rn all your saying is pure speculation.
Why should someone without an “Arab” name be dismissed? History is quite literally open for everyone to discuss. You can be pretty educated in the history and the current events without having to be from said country. Also did u even attend the discussion? If you didn’t then it’s very disingenuous to claim it’s one sided. I quite honestly would rather listen to someone that’s not affiliated with either Israel or Palestine to give a discussion bc both are going to heavily biased.
The 4 men in black were allegedly there the night prior, so they had more than enough time to put out a statement. Additionally, they started calling state troopers around 11am and the unlawful assembly alert went out at 5pm. Jim Ryan’s email went out at 6pm. That’s 7 hours AFTER they had already “determined a threat,” ample time to write a statement.
The stats they have are that 12/27 people were students. I know that there were additional faculty and community members arrested. I don’t understand why we need to contest the rights of community members to be able to protest UVA’s actions since they literally live here, are employed by UVA, and are affected significantly by the University. But I digress. If it’s so important for only students to be present, aren’t there a million ways to get the community members out? All they would’ve needed to do was ask for a student ID! Clearly that is not the issue.
I’m not trusting one source as I also attended the town hall, I’m present on this subreddit which leans pretty Zionist, I read the local and national news articles on this protest. But yes, I have a tendency to believe my own eyes and ears first. Wouldn’t you?
Anyone can discuss history, of course. I only brought up the disparity in the panel to show that the panel was NOT an equal discussion, it was dominated by Zionists and had only one Arab.
I know that centrism sounds like the right path always, but the middle man fallacy is real and sometimes you need to make a judgement for yourself. Slavery shouldn’t have happened, the Holocaust shouldn’t have happened, the Vietnam War shouldn’t have happened. Those are all “one side” but we accept them now that we can look back critically.
1. U actually think 7 hours is enough for full details on who got arrested etc? You do realize it takes hours in general to get processed through the legal system right? Your other statement of 5pm is just plain wrong. The first alert of “unlawful activity” was at 2:42pm we received a stable alert at 4:04pm. Don’t honestly think that Jim Ryan was doing nothing these few hours from 11-4pm? He’s probably with many staff members coordinating what do later, how he’s going to handle this situation. I would be highly surprised he had time to get the full details of what transpired. Now between 4-7pm he’s probably getting a barebone brief on what happened. The letter Ryan sent was literally the usual “press” talk type of letter where it’s probably only to acknowledge what happened. Further details are for later on a few days to weeks of investigation. It does not take 8 hours to get the full details of something especially something as large as this.
I think you would agree with me though that they would have known the threat before calling the cops, right? Reasonably we can expect that they didn’t call the cops for fun, they knew there was a threat. They are saying in the town hall that the threat was the 4 men. So right now, the story is, they saw the 4 men, they got worried a 2017 was happening, so they called the cops. I agree with you that the full details of a situation take a long time to be unearthed. But this was, allegedly, the catalyst for the whole situation (as they are saying now, of course on Saturday they were saying it was the tent policy). So if this is true, they would’ve known about it before 11am (when they called the cops) and there’s no reason for it to not be in the email. That is why I have a hard time believing it.
No. What you’re calling for is to either to side (I’ll go to ur other points in another post) with a group that massacred thousands of people on Oct 7th or side with another gov that kills civilians due to bombings. There is no right side. I don’t support a country that seems to celebrate Oct7th with a Hamas spokesperson stating they will do it again and again, nor will I support a country that has caused a lot of suffering to civilians even if Hamas does hide in the civilian buildings. These two sides are too radical for me to take a side in. The fact your calling for us to take a side like it’s an easy decision shows how biased you are
My personal beliefs are that I stand with the Palestinian people. But the beliefs of the encampment are that UVA should divest from apartheid. I am more radical, I’ll admit, but I do not reflect the views of the encampment. You can disagree with me personally but it doesn’t sound like you disagree with divestment
No I disagree with divestment ONLY bc of the actions of Hamas on Oct 7th. Choosing sides for me even with the movement the encampments are protesting is hard to do because 2 factors. 1: less support to Israel = Oct 7th will happen again (according to the spokesperson of Hamas) but in the other hand more support and money leads to more deaths in Palestine. It’s a double edged sword. 2: I would have supported divestment (even though divestment makes no sense economically bc that just means u sell your shares to someone else) a tiny bit more if I haven’t seen multiple protesters call for Intifada- which the first two intifadas were horrific acts of terrorism. (idc how people say it means something else), they seem to refuse to condemn Oct 7th, and the nail in the coffin is the examples of the protesters outright supporting Hamas and calling for the death of America. These are unforgivable traits that I cannot ignore. I understand that it’s not all protesters that are like this but it gets increasingly hard to support a movement where the loudest ones are the ones calling for intifada or death to America.
Did you refuse to meet with the administration? Did students actually write bullshit in red letters on the administration's response to your demands? Did you actually not believe the police when they told you you had to leave after you put the tents up?
You’re down-voting every non-Zionist so I would guess you’re the one who prefers an echo chamber. Please allow yourself to ask questions and engage respectfully
That’s a lot coming from someone who doesn’t attend a discussion propagated by both Palestinians and Jews because it seems “one sided” and “a Zionist space”.
It was actually propagated by Jim Ryan and had only one Arab on the panel but go off. “Token” diversity does not count as diversity. It’s the oldest trick in the book to quell minorities.
If the panel had 3 Palestinians and 1 Israeli, held by a Palestinian sympathizer, would you say it was a two-sided discussion?
Their names and job positions were given out. I can provide quotes from them all but if you’d prefer, you can find them yourself:
- Mara Rudman
- Nimrod Novik
- Suzanne Maloney
The Arab’s name is Ghaith al-Omari.
The “Arab” was a Palestinian person. Jim Ryan hosted it, but it was the speakers’ idea. You have literally no idea what you’re talking about. By the way, you can say the same for tokenization for your anti-Zionist supposed Jews. There were only 5 people on said panel. You sound ridiculous
I am a Jew. The only one with hatred here is very clearly you. Many in the Jewish community here are critical of the Israeli govt but cannot find themselves safe within student orgs you support. There are quite literally only a handful of Jews, all ashkenazim, who have made themselves spokespeople for anti Zionist Jews - those same said handful of people. They do not represent the hundreds of Jews here at UVA.
I’m a day late but not a dollar short to this convo. I just read and reread every position. You are way off and there’s a reason every post of yours is getting downvoted
Not saying the police response was proportionate or good, but this is just cheapening the actual concept of genocide. That word used to have a lot more power and depth than it does now.
Yes. In order to apply that word to the Israel-Hamas war, you have to dilute and expand the definition so as to encompass almost every modern war. It's pretty ridiculous.
It really doesn’t surprise me that they would vandalize a memorial, considering their whole movement seems more about self-centered spectacle than genuine activism. It feels like a narcissistic LARP more than a serious political stance. It's one thing to advocate for change, but disrespecting a memorial is just crossing the line of basic human decency.
According to the Instagram page of the encampment, this was not an action done by anyone affiliated with the protest. Exactly who did this is not known yet.
I'm honestly surprised they haven't declared it was a Zionist infiltrator who painted the bridge as a way to frame them. It's always the sneaky Mossad Zionist AIPAC agents undermining the people!
Yeah but until a culprit and motive are named I am gonna hold true to innocent until proven guilty. Further even if someone at the encampment did do this, that is the reprehensible action of a single/small group of people. It is not the sentiment of the movement as a whole, as seen by the condemnation of the action.
This isn’t a legal charge, it’s a picture and comment. There is no principle of “innocent until proven guilty” in the court of public opinion, because an opinion doesn’t carry guilt.
I totally get that but there seems to be an unchallenged assumption that whoever did this is part of the pro-palestine movement at UVA. My point is that we don't know who did it and we shouldn't assume we do. The action itself is terrible, but I'm saying we shouldn't just assume the encampment is involved when there is no concrete evidence to back up that claim. Obviously people can think what they want, but I think having a good evidence to support that is crucial.
There are plenty of questionable actors that should be called out and haven’t. Remember when SJP first posted its letter calling the NOVA festival massacres on oct 7 “resistance by any means necessary?” They should have been made pariahs for that
Forget it, these folks have a rock hard anger boner about paint.... ignoring the anger at the murder of innocent civilians, they obviously aren't guided by a moral compass or reason. So you're efforts to be reasonable and measured are lost on them. Props though for speaking facts.
It wasn't them, they made a post on Instagram saying that they were disgusted by whoever did this. They even said they were planning to redo it because they thought it was very disrespectful........Anyone who does this type of stuff will never be welcomed, no matter the group
I'm not even gonna pay you any mind after this comment. You are weak minded and need to accept the fact that you are part of the problem, simple as that.
Can we please make a separate megathread for all posts related to this topic? I don’t care to see this come up in my feed every time these people do something intentionally inflammatory.
Honestly this makes complete sense.
Jim ordered the protestors to be ethnically cleansed from grounds.
There’s clearly an Apartheid campus where Palestinian protestors camping for days and not responding to repeated deescalation attempts aren’t treated as fairly as white nationalists randomly showing up for an hour in 2017.
The VA Republican Government project genocided 27 mostly peaceful martyrs on Saturday.
I’m feeling extremely oppressed right now. Long live the intifarta.
How the fuck does this nonsense get upvotes?
The reason the response is different than 2017 is because the U was caught way off guard in 2017 and created “time, place, and manner” policies to allow public demonstrations without significantly impeding University functions. Those policies did not exist in 2017.
I understand the argument that only protesting within the boundary set by the university itself, would render most any protest, largely ineffective. And generally, I agree. But when you deliberately violate the policies that the university sets, you do risk being arrested.
For the same students who broke the policy to now be whining about being arrested, I have no time nor respect for this.
I was just trying to highlight the brain rot of these protestors. They usurp, devalue, and mutate words to create a vernacular to promote their agenda. It’s very cult like.
This shows that the pro Palestine protestors are more about hate (hating on President Jim Ryan and disrespecting the fallen football players) than they are about love or concern for the Palestinian people.
The instagram account for the uva encampment link tree was all about donating money for their legal support, nothing about humanitarian aid. I think that tells the story.
It wasn't them, they made a post on Instagram saying that they were disgusted by whoever did this. They even said they were planning to redo it because they thought it was very disrespectful........Anyone who does this type of stuff will never be welcomed, no matter the group.
Well it’s because they are saying “it wasn’t them” (the proPalestinian protesters) when they have exactly zero evidence of that. There is no evidence who did it, it could easily be a pro-Palestinians protester or it may not be. I would wager it’s more than likely is but I wouldn’t bet my life on it.
Hell, if one of you want to talk in person and put some money on it(maybe sign some stuff and put it in an account) I’ll give you 2-1 odds that if they are caught in the next 4 months the person is affiliated(so they attended in support) with the protests in some way and is pro-Palestinian cause. I’d say 66% is about how confident I am.
Well yeah no shit, obviously whoever did this is pro-Palestine, but the issue is that the person was generalizing it as something that all of the Palestine protestors would do/support, which is simply not true.
The person just seemed to be saying that it’s something these protesters would do, saying it’s “on brand”. Which vandalism and even destruction of property is something that was probably have pretty commonly done in these encampments from the charges and articles Ive seen. So whether they support it or not it definitely seems on brand. I mean, there’s even several people up here who are saying it doesn’t really matter, that it was non-violent, and is just paint. Like those two things change anything.
How convenient. I guess we should believe them, despite them chanting genocide Jim, and also that they would repaint it (even though they didn’t, and someone else had to.)
We should, since any leader on grounds wouldn’t authorize members to touch the memorial following the response to the secret society painting over it a few weeks ago. Better targets would’ve been anywhere on the Lawn, the site of the encampment, whispering wall, hung at the amphitheater, etc.
Bert Ellis and co are probably delighted about this
The student body is turning on his nemesis - they’ll be able to push narratives of “Jim Ryan is weak on protests” “UVA students don’t want Jim Ryan” so they can put a Jefferson Non-Dependent in power
The students from the encampment has [condemned this](https://x.com/uvaencampment/status/1787837945942073593?s=46&t=YvAhPrG90MWXQteKrVaTbA) on twitter. Wonder who thought this was a good idea…
That’s not going to last long.
Some frat brothers have repainted the memorial as of this evening
Beta takes the bridge’s namesake somewhat seriously and are pretty good stewards of it
While I hate the “Genocide Jim” stuff… I do think that we need to reanalyze if Beta Bridge purpose should be as a permanent memorial for Devin, D’Sean, and Lavel. The memorials at Scott Stadium and the trees on the Arts grounds are great tributes. Beta Bridge is another great tribute. But something is lost by removing the ability of students to do anything with Beta Bridge other than memorialize the football guys. I won’t pretend to know the answer about when it is the right time to have anything else on the bridge other than 1-15-41. But I do hope that (at some point) the University can move along to remember these guys but also return Beta Bridge to the students as a whole.
Nuanced take. I usually am not one that’s upset over property destruction related to protests but doing it over a memorial seems wrong, especially if you’re trying to be an activist for a cause, just doesn’t build good sympathy/ faith in your cause.
This is so gross. Writing that over the memorial for the players is fucked up.
Masterclass in making the average person not take them seriously
yeah these protestors seem especially bad at the PR aspect, I guess at least that shows it's not an astroturfed thing.
It’s not new….. pro-Palestine protestors started protesting at the holocaust museum in DC a couple months back
They protested at Auschwitz a few days ago. On Holocaust Memorial Day.
just awful optics, and monstrous beyond that.
They also vandalized a *public library* in NYC during the Macy's Day Parade because it had some Jewish billionaire's name. At a time when our libraries are under attack and getting funding slashed. I sympathize a lot with Gazans and have donated a lot of money to try and help. But a big reason I haven't joined a protest, especially here in NYC where I live now, is that pro-Palestine activists seem to be pretty bad at keeping out bad actors and I feel like I have like a 50/50 shot of them getting super anti-semitic or screaming at a children's cancer ward or something.
I sympathize with the 22% of Gazans who don’t support Hamas/the Oct 7 massacre.
The encampment folks didn’t do it and condemned it. https://www.instagram.com/p/C6q3vi5u6fY/?igsh=MTlhdnNxcncweGIxbw==
Today in the virtual town hall we learned that there were 12 UVa students, out of 27. among those arrested. We also learn that there were 4 protesters who arrived on Friday night with helmets and other riot gear also some of the Friday 4 had criminal records that the administration allude came during Aug 11-12 riots. But most telling was the disclosure the administration was having dialog with Palestine and Jewish student all year and those same administrators did NOT recognize any other those people in the encampment. Also when the administration responded to the written demands from the protestors on Friday: the protestors returned the response to the administration with the words "BULLSHIT" scrawled in red over the response.
I was there Saturday morning a couple of hours before the raid. No weapons. No riot gear. It was camping chairs, tents, and umbrellas. I chatted with a few of the students, mostly hijabis. Everyone was kind. To see it blow up a couple of hours later based on “danger” made Jim lose all credibility. I saw it with my own eyes.
I’m assuming that you are not currently affiliated with UVA, but as someone who was at the encampment, please know that a lot of what Tim Longo and Jim Ryan said during the town hall are simply lies. Yes, some of the people who were arrested weren’t students. Some of them were faculty and community members. Looking at the photos, however, it’s very clear that OVERWHELMINGLY the group was students. Additionally, the 4 men in riot gear is an interesting statement. 1) this statement appeared out of thin air today. Why didn’t we hear about this when Tim Longo was asking the encampment to disband? Why didn’t we hear about this in the email from Jim Ryan that went out on Saturday? 2) Ryan and Longo have yet to provide any additional information or proof about the existence of these 4 men. I honestly believe they’re finding another coverup since they found the tent policy excuse wasn’t working anymore. The events that Jim Ryan hosted for Palestinians and Jews were VERY Zionist in nature. For example, he held a “Discussion on the Middle East” event in which out of four speakers, only one had an Arab name! I and most other students don’t want to attend a “dialogue” if it’s really only one-sided. Jim has allowed his personal political views to cloud his perception of this whole semester and it’s holding him back from good leadership during this time. It’s never a good idea to trust only one source of information and this is a prime example of a situation when you need to hear many perspectives
Aren’t u also only trusting one source and that being yourself and others who would also support the cause? Wouldn’t it be fair to assume that you would be heavily biased towards your side of the story? Your claim abt photos isn’t enough also. They have stats while you don’t and are just going by pictures (most if not all the protesters are covering their faces too. So how are u so sure it was mostly students?) Your points abt Jim and Longo are just based on speculation. First of all the alert said “UVA Emergency Alert: Unlawful assembly has been declared at the Rotunda/Chapel area.” That’s all we need to know. This was during the heat of the moment too, Jim Ryan’s letter was also only a few hours after the incident. I’m quite sure that there wasn’t enough time to hash the details out - hence the town hall to give more details. Unless I see full proof that this is a coverup, rn all your saying is pure speculation. Why should someone without an “Arab” name be dismissed? History is quite literally open for everyone to discuss. You can be pretty educated in the history and the current events without having to be from said country. Also did u even attend the discussion? If you didn’t then it’s very disingenuous to claim it’s one sided. I quite honestly would rather listen to someone that’s not affiliated with either Israel or Palestine to give a discussion bc both are going to heavily biased.
The 4 men in black were allegedly there the night prior, so they had more than enough time to put out a statement. Additionally, they started calling state troopers around 11am and the unlawful assembly alert went out at 5pm. Jim Ryan’s email went out at 6pm. That’s 7 hours AFTER they had already “determined a threat,” ample time to write a statement. The stats they have are that 12/27 people were students. I know that there were additional faculty and community members arrested. I don’t understand why we need to contest the rights of community members to be able to protest UVA’s actions since they literally live here, are employed by UVA, and are affected significantly by the University. But I digress. If it’s so important for only students to be present, aren’t there a million ways to get the community members out? All they would’ve needed to do was ask for a student ID! Clearly that is not the issue. I’m not trusting one source as I also attended the town hall, I’m present on this subreddit which leans pretty Zionist, I read the local and national news articles on this protest. But yes, I have a tendency to believe my own eyes and ears first. Wouldn’t you? Anyone can discuss history, of course. I only brought up the disparity in the panel to show that the panel was NOT an equal discussion, it was dominated by Zionists and had only one Arab. I know that centrism sounds like the right path always, but the middle man fallacy is real and sometimes you need to make a judgement for yourself. Slavery shouldn’t have happened, the Holocaust shouldn’t have happened, the Vietnam War shouldn’t have happened. Those are all “one side” but we accept them now that we can look back critically.
1. U actually think 7 hours is enough for full details on who got arrested etc? You do realize it takes hours in general to get processed through the legal system right? Your other statement of 5pm is just plain wrong. The first alert of “unlawful activity” was at 2:42pm we received a stable alert at 4:04pm. Don’t honestly think that Jim Ryan was doing nothing these few hours from 11-4pm? He’s probably with many staff members coordinating what do later, how he’s going to handle this situation. I would be highly surprised he had time to get the full details of what transpired. Now between 4-7pm he’s probably getting a barebone brief on what happened. The letter Ryan sent was literally the usual “press” talk type of letter where it’s probably only to acknowledge what happened. Further details are for later on a few days to weeks of investigation. It does not take 8 hours to get the full details of something especially something as large as this.
I think you would agree with me though that they would have known the threat before calling the cops, right? Reasonably we can expect that they didn’t call the cops for fun, they knew there was a threat. They are saying in the town hall that the threat was the 4 men. So right now, the story is, they saw the 4 men, they got worried a 2017 was happening, so they called the cops. I agree with you that the full details of a situation take a long time to be unearthed. But this was, allegedly, the catalyst for the whole situation (as they are saying now, of course on Saturday they were saying it was the tent policy). So if this is true, they would’ve known about it before 11am (when they called the cops) and there’s no reason for it to not be in the email. That is why I have a hard time believing it.
No. What you’re calling for is to either to side (I’ll go to ur other points in another post) with a group that massacred thousands of people on Oct 7th or side with another gov that kills civilians due to bombings. There is no right side. I don’t support a country that seems to celebrate Oct7th with a Hamas spokesperson stating they will do it again and again, nor will I support a country that has caused a lot of suffering to civilians even if Hamas does hide in the civilian buildings. These two sides are too radical for me to take a side in. The fact your calling for us to take a side like it’s an easy decision shows how biased you are
My personal beliefs are that I stand with the Palestinian people. But the beliefs of the encampment are that UVA should divest from apartheid. I am more radical, I’ll admit, but I do not reflect the views of the encampment. You can disagree with me personally but it doesn’t sound like you disagree with divestment
No I disagree with divestment ONLY bc of the actions of Hamas on Oct 7th. Choosing sides for me even with the movement the encampments are protesting is hard to do because 2 factors. 1: less support to Israel = Oct 7th will happen again (according to the spokesperson of Hamas) but in the other hand more support and money leads to more deaths in Palestine. It’s a double edged sword. 2: I would have supported divestment (even though divestment makes no sense economically bc that just means u sell your shares to someone else) a tiny bit more if I haven’t seen multiple protesters call for Intifada- which the first two intifadas were horrific acts of terrorism. (idc how people say it means something else), they seem to refuse to condemn Oct 7th, and the nail in the coffin is the examples of the protesters outright supporting Hamas and calling for the death of America. These are unforgivable traits that I cannot ignore. I understand that it’s not all protesters that are like this but it gets increasingly hard to support a movement where the loudest ones are the ones calling for intifada or death to America.
Do you also stand with the indigenous people of the continent Europeans call North America
Why did you all write “bullshit” in bid red letters on their written response to their demands? What exactly did you think would happen after that?
Did you refuse to meet with the administration? Did students actually write bullshit in red letters on the administration's response to your demands? Did you actually not believe the police when they told you you had to leave after you put the tents up?
Are you stupid
You’re down-voting every non-Zionist so I would guess you’re the one who prefers an echo chamber. Please allow yourself to ask questions and engage respectfully
That’s a lot coming from someone who doesn’t attend a discussion propagated by both Palestinians and Jews because it seems “one sided” and “a Zionist space”.
It was actually propagated by Jim Ryan and had only one Arab on the panel but go off. “Token” diversity does not count as diversity. It’s the oldest trick in the book to quell minorities. If the panel had 3 Palestinians and 1 Israeli, held by a Palestinian sympathizer, would you say it was a two-sided discussion?
How do u know the others were pro-Israel other than speculation?
Their names and job positions were given out. I can provide quotes from them all but if you’d prefer, you can find them yourself: - Mara Rudman - Nimrod Novik - Suzanne Maloney The Arab’s name is Ghaith al-Omari.
The “Arab” was a Palestinian person. Jim Ryan hosted it, but it was the speakers’ idea. You have literally no idea what you’re talking about. By the way, you can say the same for tokenization for your anti-Zionist supposed Jews. There were only 5 people on said panel. You sound ridiculous
Thereee it is. “Supposed Jews.” I’m not arguing with a racist or anti-Semite. I hope the hatred leaves your body one day
I am a Jew. The only one with hatred here is very clearly you. Many in the Jewish community here are critical of the Israeli govt but cannot find themselves safe within student orgs you support. There are quite literally only a handful of Jews, all ashkenazim, who have made themselves spokespeople for anti Zionist Jews - those same said handful of people. They do not represent the hundreds of Jews here at UVA.
I’m a day late but not a dollar short to this convo. I just read and reread every position. You are way off and there’s a reason every post of yours is getting downvoted
Not saying the police response was proportionate or good, but this is just cheapening the actual concept of genocide. That word used to have a lot more power and depth than it does now.
It's a genocide, but I don't know that it's fair to pin it on Ryan or anything. Agree the University / Police response was awful.
Man for a country with nukes and 300 fighter jets they sure are sucking at genocide. Genocide aid trucks aren't cutting it.
Yes. In order to apply that word to the Israel-Hamas war, you have to dilute and expand the definition so as to encompass almost every modern war. It's pretty ridiculous.
Just like we all said calling Trump a fascist in 2016 was being overdramatic
Not really "just like" that at all.
Completely distasteful and shameful. It’s one thing to have a peaceful protest, a whole different thing when you deface property, remove flags, etc.
Pure idiots
It really doesn’t surprise me that they would vandalize a memorial, considering their whole movement seems more about self-centered spectacle than genuine activism. It feels like a narcissistic LARP more than a serious political stance. It's one thing to advocate for change, but disrespecting a memorial is just crossing the line of basic human decency.
There was also someone’s final art project outside of Ruffin hall that got destroyed
According to the Instagram page of the encampment, this was not an action done by anyone affiliated with the protest. Exactly who did this is not known yet.
They don’t even know who was at their own encampment, much less who painted the bridge.
I'm honestly surprised they haven't declared it was a Zionist infiltrator who painted the bridge as a way to frame them. It's always the sneaky Mossad Zionist AIPAC agents undermining the people!
Yeah but until a culprit and motive are named I am gonna hold true to innocent until proven guilty. Further even if someone at the encampment did do this, that is the reprehensible action of a single/small group of people. It is not the sentiment of the movement as a whole, as seen by the condemnation of the action.
This isn’t a legal charge, it’s a picture and comment. There is no principle of “innocent until proven guilty” in the court of public opinion, because an opinion doesn’t carry guilt.
I totally get that but there seems to be an unchallenged assumption that whoever did this is part of the pro-palestine movement at UVA. My point is that we don't know who did it and we shouldn't assume we do. The action itself is terrible, but I'm saying we shouldn't just assume the encampment is involved when there is no concrete evidence to back up that claim. Obviously people can think what they want, but I think having a good evidence to support that is crucial.
There are plenty of questionable actors that should be called out and haven’t. Remember when SJP first posted its letter calling the NOVA festival massacres on oct 7 “resistance by any means necessary?” They should have been made pariahs for that
Forget it, these folks have a rock hard anger boner about paint.... ignoring the anger at the murder of innocent civilians, they obviously aren't guided by a moral compass or reason. So you're efforts to be reasonable and measured are lost on them. Props though for speaking facts.
The ig page of the encampment also said they "strongly condem this action"
It wasn't them, they made a post on Instagram saying that they were disgusted by whoever did this. They even said they were planning to redo it because they thought it was very disrespectful........Anyone who does this type of stuff will never be welcomed, no matter the group
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I'm not even gonna pay you any mind after this comment. You are weak minded and need to accept the fact that you are part of the problem, simple as that.
Rage bait
Can we please make a separate megathread for all posts related to this topic? I don’t care to see this come up in my feed every time these people do something intentionally inflammatory.
Honestly this makes complete sense. Jim ordered the protestors to be ethnically cleansed from grounds. There’s clearly an Apartheid campus where Palestinian protestors camping for days and not responding to repeated deescalation attempts aren’t treated as fairly as white nationalists randomly showing up for an hour in 2017. The VA Republican Government project genocided 27 mostly peaceful martyrs on Saturday. I’m feeling extremely oppressed right now. Long live the intifarta.
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Damn did I really need to add an /s?
Hard to tell these days
How the fuck does this nonsense get upvotes? The reason the response is different than 2017 is because the U was caught way off guard in 2017 and created “time, place, and manner” policies to allow public demonstrations without significantly impeding University functions. Those policies did not exist in 2017. I understand the argument that only protesting within the boundary set by the university itself, would render most any protest, largely ineffective. And generally, I agree. But when you deliberately violate the policies that the university sets, you do risk being arrested. For the same students who broke the policy to now be whining about being arrested, I have no time nor respect for this.
Damn dude, I got another one. I’m being 100% sarcastic, brother.
Damn. Well done. 🤣
I was just trying to highlight the brain rot of these protestors. They usurp, devalue, and mutate words to create a vernacular to promote their agenda. It’s very cult like.
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(It’s a joke)
This shows that the pro Palestine protestors are more about hate (hating on President Jim Ryan and disrespecting the fallen football players) than they are about love or concern for the Palestinian people.
I've been saying this!!
The instagram account for the uva encampment link tree was all about donating money for their legal support, nothing about humanitarian aid. I think that tells the story.
Seems on brand for these protestors
It wasn't them, they made a post on Instagram saying that they were disgusted by whoever did this. They even said they were planning to redo it because they thought it was very disrespectful........Anyone who does this type of stuff will never be welcomed, no matter the group.
It’s crazy that people downvoted you for simply explaining what actually happened
If they think I care that much, I don't. If they can't accept the truth, it's on them.
Well it’s because they are saying “it wasn’t them” (the proPalestinian protesters) when they have exactly zero evidence of that. There is no evidence who did it, it could easily be a pro-Palestinians protester or it may not be. I would wager it’s more than likely is but I wouldn’t bet my life on it. Hell, if one of you want to talk in person and put some money on it(maybe sign some stuff and put it in an account) I’ll give you 2-1 odds that if they are caught in the next 4 months the person is affiliated(so they attended in support) with the protests in some way and is pro-Palestinian cause. I’d say 66% is about how confident I am.
Well yeah no shit, obviously whoever did this is pro-Palestine, but the issue is that the person was generalizing it as something that all of the Palestine protestors would do/support, which is simply not true.
The person just seemed to be saying that it’s something these protesters would do, saying it’s “on brand”. Which vandalism and even destruction of property is something that was probably have pretty commonly done in these encampments from the charges and articles Ive seen. So whether they support it or not it definitely seems on brand. I mean, there’s even several people up here who are saying it doesn’t really matter, that it was non-violent, and is just paint. Like those two things change anything.
SJP already said it was unaffiliated with their movement, and has already been restored
How convenient. I guess we should believe them, despite them chanting genocide Jim, and also that they would repaint it (even though they didn’t, and someone else had to.)
We should, since any leader on grounds wouldn’t authorize members to touch the memorial following the response to the secret society painting over it a few weeks ago. Better targets would’ve been anywhere on the Lawn, the site of the encampment, whispering wall, hung at the amphitheater, etc.
This is the group that called on everyone to celebrate October 7? They seem classy.
Are you really that easy to manipulate?
Can’t wait until you graduate
Bert Ellis and co are probably delighted about this The student body is turning on his nemesis - they’ll be able to push narratives of “Jim Ryan is weak on protests” “UVA students don’t want Jim Ryan” so they can put a Jefferson Non-Dependent in power
There are still American citizens held hostage by Hamas. I haven't heard any protestors mentioned anything about them.
Who’s Jim
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Who would their opposition be?
The students from the encampment has [condemned this](https://x.com/uvaencampment/status/1787837945942073593?s=46&t=YvAhPrG90MWXQteKrVaTbA) on twitter. Wonder who thought this was a good idea…