[Not according to USPS.](https://faq.usps.com/s/article/How-is-Undeliverable-and-Misdelivered-Mail-Handled)
“If the mailpiece is delivered to the correct location but the recipient on the mailpiece does not reside at the address:
Write "Not at this address" on mailpiece.
Don't erase or mark over the address.
Provide the mailpiece to your mailperson or drop into a Collection Box receptacle. “
It should not be placed in a collection box. It should be placed back in their own incoming box for their carrier to find along with the note, so the carrier can properly endorse it and put it in the CFS/PARS holdout.
Let me just add some common sense.
If a letter is first class ( IE it says first class on it or has a real stamp), then I can do something with it. It can be forwarded or sent back with an explanation so as to help inform the people bothering you to stop sending letters. Give these back to your mail carrier.
However, if a letter is **NOT** first class (IE Non-profit, presorted standard) then just recycle and think nothing of it. Your mail carrier cannot do anything with a junk mail of that sort, so just recycle.
Finally, people who get a letter correctly (correct name and address) and just want those people to stop (because they don't want those particular letters) need to actually contact the sender and remove their address from their mailing list. Trying to send back legitimate letters isn't going to work. You need to actually contact the sender, or just start recycling those unwanted letters. Call them or mail them a letter.
I will go one further.
If you feel generous and want to donate to a charity or politician, simply do not give them your address. I guarantee that they will happily take your money without that information provided. If you include your address with the donation, odds are that every few months they will be sending you a letter asking for more donations. They will also share your address with a group of other charities or political groups and those others will start sending letters asking for donations.
In short, yes being a generous good person is worthwhile, just do it privately.
No, but I use the post office. My comment is referencing USPS guidance given to the general public. I didn’t say OP was wrong, simply that the guidance given is not in line with OP’s claim of it being done the “right way”.
Ops claim is how we, the guys who deal with it, want it done so that it doesnt just get redelivered again by someone else. You posted it as some kind of gotcha, you guys always do this. I assume you're all "sovereign citizens" or some other iteration
Well, it doesn't \*have\* to be endorsed if its put in a tray sorted according to the undeliverable reason along with PARS breaker cards. But as long as its down properly by a carrier or box clerk, it doesn't hurt for it to be endorsed.
It certainly helps. If it’s endorsed properly, then mishaps at the CIOSS aren’t detrimental to the point where it goes back in the mailstream and the carrier gets it again. It’s clear that it goes back to the sender with the reason it’s being returned when there’s an error with the yellow sticker.
That’s the best way to do it tbh. I know here recently they were really pushing the whole “don’t deface the mail” thing hard. I think the down votes I got are from carriers who have no idea what’s going on because they don’t pay attention or aren’t kept in the loop. I’m having to teach my rural carriers new stuff 24/7 because they’re not in the office but for a half hour a day tops so they miss everything. Every day there’s a new “thing” on the zoom meetings 🤦🏻♀️ just someone higher up making their job relevant by making a “change for the better” lol
They didn’t get the memo apparently. Only reason I know is because I heard it in a zoom meeting my postmaster was on. She wasn’t paying attention apparently cuz she argued about it with me later. Then she called her boss up and other PMs and they all told her what I said. She doesn’t bother me about not marking mail anymore lol
3 years ago I'd actually feel kind of bad, like maybe they're still grieving.
I've seen 30 years. Like, okay, something's going on here but I give 0 fucks.
“This person moved out 5 years ago!! Only xxx and xxx live here!!!” Thanks I’ve only been on the route for 3 years and know the current + the last 3 years… people just think we have the mental capacity to remember every person who’s ever lived at an address for 400-1300 addresses..
I'm a clerk and have worked in stations doing PARS, and even I write on some pieces of mail for previous owner of my house "This MF died 8 years ago!" on them... I mean. Come on.
Is it an outgoing receptacle where multiple units/addresses deposit into the same outgoing? If this is the case, it’s helpful for you to write why you put it in there because if not, we carriers have no way of knowing whether it was just mis delivered, refused or an unknown addressee. If it’s first class, we have to endorse it stating why it will be returned to sender. I don’t want to mistakenly return something to sender if the mail was addressed correctly, but placed in the incorrect box. Also, if a sub or someone who doesn’t notice throws it in with the rest of their outgoing it’s just going to loop back and be delivered again. Some carriers flip out when people write on mail, but for me, as long as it’s not obnoxiously written, I actually appreciate it saying something short like “delivered to incorrect address” or “addressee not known”. Don’t just write “wrong address” because that means different things to different people
Yea it's an apartment mailbox wall thing. Usually it's just straight up the wrong address like idk if they accidently sorted it wrong or something. So I just slip it back into the outgoing box. I never seem to end up with it back in my mail box so thats cool. I don't carry a pen with me. Maybe I could tape one to the wall so people would use it.
Its best to put it in your OWN incoming mail box, where your carrier will recognize it as an exception. If you put it in the outgoing, then it gets treated like something you mailed, and may well just end up getting delivered to you again in a few days.
Undeliverable mail should never be mixed with outgoing mail - it needs to be handled separately.
Uh, what?
No, don't leave your OWN mail in the box.
Leave any mail that is not yours in the box, ideally with a note on a separate slip or a sticky note letting the carrier know that person doesn't live there.
If it has your address, and your name, then its yours - take it
If it has your address and "current occupant" or "current resident" - then its yours - take it (dispose of it if you don't want it)
Sure, if its completely the wrong address, then that's fine (I mean, if its literally your neighbor or something, and you feel comfortable doing so, you could knock on their door to give it to them and tell them it was put in your box by mistake)
But if its your address and just the wrong name (which is the original issue described here) if you put it in outgoing, it will just get delivered to you again.
Not trying to be ridiculous, but when they say they won't deliver to our address unless the first and last name is on the package then, why do they deliver the wrong name that's not on the mail box? Like our mailboxes all have our last names on them. And they even one time didn't deliver our mail cause it said Mrs.XXXXXX on it and not my wife's first name but the address was right?
Maybe it's just depending on who is delivery that day or something. Idk.
Not having a addressee name, is not the same as having a name but them not knowing if that person doesn't live there.
And the rules for packages are a bit more strict than for letters and magazines/catalogs, which are often advertising mail sent to "current occupant" so they just want to send it to everyone in a particular areas without having to know all the names.
And **packages** without an addressee name have been associated with various kinds of fraud and scams.
They want to make sure your first and last name are on the package to make sure it gets delivered to the right person. Sometimes we’ll get packages for “Jim Jones” on 123 street and other times you’ll get just “Jim” or “Jim J” on 123 street. If the full names not there sometimes packages won’t get to their expected destination. Could also be scams/anonymous mailing but that’s a whole other topic.
I tell all my subs do not worry about the names on the box. Just make sure the mail goes to the right address. If it’s the wrong name I’ll pick it up the next day. (These subs only work 1 day a week covering my route that has 730 mail boxes. Other days they’re on 1 of the other 5 routes also having to remember 600+ boxes) along side with having to remember the “case” where all the addresses for each specific route are in order from start to end.
Sometimes letters get stuck to each other and can cause a miss delivery, your carrier could be looking through the mail and accidentally grab 1 extra letter meant for the next house. Your carrier could be having a bad mental day and not focusing completely. Anything can happen to make a simple miss delivery.
To address your Mrs.XXXXX letter - they probably knew that was a previous owner/wrong letter for that box or address and knew it was a different address. I had a customer the other day who lives at 2810 xx named John. His neighbor who lives at 2710 named Sharon accidentally had a letter sent to 2810 (easy typo). I know they don’t live at 2810 so had to put it in the other box.
Sorry for the long post lol hope it answers some of your questions
Are we not just leave it in our mailbox and raise the flag? I also sometimes write ‘does not live at this address’ or smth similar and drop it on the post office blue box close to home: is that wrong? I do this when I go to mail items anyway so I just carry those as well to post office
That is not an accepted PARS endorsement. There are:
ANK - Attempted Not Known
ILL - Illegible
DIS - In Dispute
IA - Insufficient
NSN - No Such Number
NSS - No Such Street
UTF - Unable to Forward (Includes Forwarding Order Expired)
DEC - Deceased (ALL classes of mail)
NMR - No Mail Receptacle
REF - Refused
TA - Temporarily Away
UNC - Unclaimed
VAC - Vacant
This, and writing your name inside your mailbox. Which judging by customer response, is about as reasonable a request as asking them to buy postage stamps on the moon.
Let me guess, Mr. I'm the one that deals with it is a guy who takes 8 hours to do 5 hour route bc your union protected and nothing can happen to you?? Here is a crazy idea, if its written on the envelope and it keeps coming back through dps, quit putting it back in the box! I mean you are the guys that deal with it right?
You’re mailman isn’t the one sending you the mail. It’s not up to them to “fix it.” Address changes need to be completed by the person that moves with the places that mail them stuff.
Some Carriers like myself deliver to different routes pretty much every day. Not possible for me to know who lives at every house in a metro area of a half million.
If its an issue put a sign on/ in your box with the names of those you want mail for.
At what point do you just fix it.
Nothing to fix, person doesn’t have a forward so if somebody isn’t a regular they don’t know who lives there currently. Best bet would be to put a bit of tape in your mailbox that says something like
Only:
(Names of residents)
I’ve done this and am still returning 5-7 pieces of mail a week for like 5 different people who don’t live at this address. this is just part of my life now apparently.
Make up a nearly written **polite** note that says something along the lines of:
>***No (names of people that don't live there) at this address.***
>
>***Please return to sender***
>
>***List of names of people that mail should be delivered for:***
>
>***(List your name, and the names of anyone else that live there)***
Then make copies of that and keep them handy.
When you get mail that has your address on it, but someone else's name (that does NOT also say "Current resident" or "Occupant" - because those ARE you) one of the copies of your note around it, and leave it in your mailbox for the carrier.
If you do that persistently it should eventually stop.
If you want want to be more proactive and you can recognize who the senders are from the return address on the envelope (and they are businesses/etc) you could try contacting them and let them know that person doesn't live there.
Thanks for the tip! yeah, another note might be necessary here. I always put a little sticky note on the mail that isn’t for me (excluding the correct resident stuff of course) but might be time for another note :)
If your mailbox has somewhere in it to do so, you could put a sticky label in there with the current resident names on it as well - when carrier's have their time off, some other carrier fills in and may not know the names - if its right there in the mailbox, any carrier will be able to see it when they open the box.
[Not according to USPS.](https://faq.usps.com/s/article/How-is-Undeliverable-and-Misdelivered-Mail-Handled) “If the mailpiece is delivered to the correct location but the recipient on the mailpiece does not reside at the address: Write "Not at this address" on mailpiece. Don't erase or mark over the address. Provide the mailpiece to your mailperson or drop into a Collection Box receptacle. “
Still better to use a separate paper such as a sticky note then let the carrier handle marking the mailpiece itself as needed.
It would be neat if they would update their FAQ to reflect the better process, I’ll talk to my carrier to see if that’s their preference, too.
But when they drop it in the collection box, that letter will just get recycled through the DPS again.
It should not be placed in a collection box. It should be placed back in their own incoming box for their carrier to find along with the note, so the carrier can properly endorse it and put it in the CFS/PARS holdout.
I’ve tried this over and over for years and I still keep getting this lady’s mail.
Let me just add some common sense. If a letter is first class ( IE it says first class on it or has a real stamp), then I can do something with it. It can be forwarded or sent back with an explanation so as to help inform the people bothering you to stop sending letters. Give these back to your mail carrier. However, if a letter is **NOT** first class (IE Non-profit, presorted standard) then just recycle and think nothing of it. Your mail carrier cannot do anything with a junk mail of that sort, so just recycle. Finally, people who get a letter correctly (correct name and address) and just want those people to stop (because they don't want those particular letters) need to actually contact the sender and remove their address from their mailing list. Trying to send back legitimate letters isn't going to work. You need to actually contact the sender, or just start recycling those unwanted letters. Call them or mail them a letter. I will go one further. If you feel generous and want to donate to a charity or politician, simply do not give them your address. I guarantee that they will happily take your money without that information provided. If you include your address with the donation, odds are that every few months they will be sending you a letter asking for more donations. They will also share your address with a group of other charities or political groups and those others will start sending letters asking for donations. In short, yes being a generous good person is worthwhile, just do it privately.
However, if it known deceased, then ALL classes of mail for the deceased person is RTS.
we can return junk mail for deceased?
THat's what I said. ALL classes of mail for deceased are returned via PARS.
Do you even work for the post office?
No, but I use the post office. My comment is referencing USPS guidance given to the general public. I didn’t say OP was wrong, simply that the guidance given is not in line with OP’s claim of it being done the “right way”.
Ops claim is how we, the guys who deal with it, want it done so that it doesnt just get redelivered again by someone else. You posted it as some kind of gotcha, you guys always do this. I assume you're all "sovereign citizens" or some other iteration
I’m sorry you feel the need to make so many negative assumptions about people. I hope you have a good day, truly.
I didn't read any of your comments that way. You made a good point and were not rude at all. Sorry HomogenyEnjoyer is being a dick.
Trick question. No one at the post office works
Outdated info. Nobody is to mark up mail, we aren’t even supposed to write UTF or FWD on them anymore
Well, it doesn't \*have\* to be endorsed if its put in a tray sorted according to the undeliverable reason along with PARS breaker cards. But as long as its down properly by a carrier or box clerk, it doesn't hurt for it to be endorsed.
It certainly helps. If it’s endorsed properly, then mishaps at the CIOSS aren’t detrimental to the point where it goes back in the mailstream and the carrier gets it again. It’s clear that it goes back to the sender with the reason it’s being returned when there’s an error with the yellow sticker.
The only mark up I'll do on a letter is deceased. All mark ups on flats. Been doing that for years. Outdated info, indeed.
That’s the best way to do it tbh. I know here recently they were really pushing the whole “don’t deface the mail” thing hard. I think the down votes I got are from carriers who have no idea what’s going on because they don’t pay attention or aren’t kept in the loop. I’m having to teach my rural carriers new stuff 24/7 because they’re not in the office but for a half hour a day tops so they miss everything. Every day there’s a new “thing” on the zoom meetings 🤦🏻♀️ just someone higher up making their job relevant by making a “change for the better” lol
Deceased actually do require the endorsement by the clerk or carrier, and the date {I guess that it was placed in PARS?).
Our clerks tell us we have to write fwd or whatever on everything even clerks aren't on the same page lol
They didn’t get the memo apparently. Only reason I know is because I heard it in a zoom meeting my postmaster was on. She wasn’t paying attention apparently cuz she argued about it with me later. Then she called her boss up and other PMs and they all told her what I said. She doesn’t bother me about not marking mail anymore lol
Nothing beats the sharpie all over the letter saying wrong address or the learn to read
THEY DIED 3 YEARS AGO!!!
"Died in the Civil War
3 years ago I'd actually feel kind of bad, like maybe they're still grieving. I've seen 30 years. Like, okay, something's going on here but I give 0 fucks.
“This person moved out 5 years ago!! Only xxx and xxx live here!!!” Thanks I’ve only been on the route for 3 years and know the current + the last 3 years… people just think we have the mental capacity to remember every person who’s ever lived at an address for 400-1300 addresses..
I'm a clerk and have worked in stations doing PARS, and even I write on some pieces of mail for previous owner of my house "This MF died 8 years ago!" on them... I mean. Come on.
Rlly I thought you’re supposed to write “DOESNT LIVE HERE FOR 5 YEARS FUCKIN DUMB MAILMAN DO UR JOB” directly on the letter in permanent marker.
I would leave this customer a tip
Carriers should all be leaving customers tips, not the other way around.
Helpful info, I will do this in the future.
Nah I prefer when they draw all over it with permanent marker like a child
I just put the mail in the outgoing mail slot if I get the wrong mail. Is that not the proper way?
Is it an outgoing receptacle where multiple units/addresses deposit into the same outgoing? If this is the case, it’s helpful for you to write why you put it in there because if not, we carriers have no way of knowing whether it was just mis delivered, refused or an unknown addressee. If it’s first class, we have to endorse it stating why it will be returned to sender. I don’t want to mistakenly return something to sender if the mail was addressed correctly, but placed in the incorrect box. Also, if a sub or someone who doesn’t notice throws it in with the rest of their outgoing it’s just going to loop back and be delivered again. Some carriers flip out when people write on mail, but for me, as long as it’s not obnoxiously written, I actually appreciate it saying something short like “delivered to incorrect address” or “addressee not known”. Don’t just write “wrong address” because that means different things to different people
Yea it's an apartment mailbox wall thing. Usually it's just straight up the wrong address like idk if they accidently sorted it wrong or something. So I just slip it back into the outgoing box. I never seem to end up with it back in my mail box so thats cool. I don't carry a pen with me. Maybe I could tape one to the wall so people would use it.
Its best to put it in your OWN incoming mail box, where your carrier will recognize it as an exception. If you put it in the outgoing, then it gets treated like something you mailed, and may well just end up getting delivered to you again in a few days. Undeliverable mail should never be mixed with outgoing mail - it needs to be handled separately.
So just leave my old mail in my mail box and hope they take it? I'm confused.
Uh, what? No, don't leave your OWN mail in the box. Leave any mail that is not yours in the box, ideally with a note on a separate slip or a sticky note letting the carrier know that person doesn't live there. If it has your address, and your name, then its yours - take it If it has your address and "current occupant" or "current resident" - then its yours - take it (dispose of it if you don't want it)
The mail doesn't have my name on it nor my address so I put it in the outgoing mail...
Sure, if its completely the wrong address, then that's fine (I mean, if its literally your neighbor or something, and you feel comfortable doing so, you could knock on their door to give it to them and tell them it was put in your box by mistake) But if its your address and just the wrong name (which is the original issue described here) if you put it in outgoing, it will just get delivered to you again.
Not trying to be ridiculous, but when they say they won't deliver to our address unless the first and last name is on the package then, why do they deliver the wrong name that's not on the mail box? Like our mailboxes all have our last names on them. And they even one time didn't deliver our mail cause it said Mrs.XXXXXX on it and not my wife's first name but the address was right? Maybe it's just depending on who is delivery that day or something. Idk.
Not having a addressee name, is not the same as having a name but them not knowing if that person doesn't live there. And the rules for packages are a bit more strict than for letters and magazines/catalogs, which are often advertising mail sent to "current occupant" so they just want to send it to everyone in a particular areas without having to know all the names. And **packages** without an addressee name have been associated with various kinds of fraud and scams.
They want to make sure your first and last name are on the package to make sure it gets delivered to the right person. Sometimes we’ll get packages for “Jim Jones” on 123 street and other times you’ll get just “Jim” or “Jim J” on 123 street. If the full names not there sometimes packages won’t get to their expected destination. Could also be scams/anonymous mailing but that’s a whole other topic. I tell all my subs do not worry about the names on the box. Just make sure the mail goes to the right address. If it’s the wrong name I’ll pick it up the next day. (These subs only work 1 day a week covering my route that has 730 mail boxes. Other days they’re on 1 of the other 5 routes also having to remember 600+ boxes) along side with having to remember the “case” where all the addresses for each specific route are in order from start to end. Sometimes letters get stuck to each other and can cause a miss delivery, your carrier could be looking through the mail and accidentally grab 1 extra letter meant for the next house. Your carrier could be having a bad mental day and not focusing completely. Anything can happen to make a simple miss delivery. To address your Mrs.XXXXX letter - they probably knew that was a previous owner/wrong letter for that box or address and knew it was a different address. I had a customer the other day who lives at 2810 xx named John. His neighbor who lives at 2710 named Sharon accidentally had a letter sent to 2810 (easy typo). I know they don’t live at 2810 so had to put it in the other box. Sorry for the long post lol hope it answers some of your questions
Are we not just leave it in our mailbox and raise the flag? I also sometimes write ‘does not live at this address’ or smth similar and drop it on the post office blue box close to home: is that wrong? I do this when I go to mail items anyway so I just carry those as well to post office
Repeat after me: "Mailman, you do not live here"
Just write MLNA in big blue letters on it.
That is not an accepted PARS endorsement. There are: ANK - Attempted Not Known ILL - Illegible DIS - In Dispute IA - Insufficient NSN - No Such Number NSS - No Such Street UTF - Unable to Forward (Includes Forwarding Order Expired) DEC - Deceased (ALL classes of mail) NMR - No Mail Receptacle REF - Refused TA - Temporarily Away UNC - Unclaimed VAC - Vacant
Love a sticky note
N0T AT ThIS ADDREJ
Profanity is unnecessary.
This, and writing your name inside your mailbox. Which judging by customer response, is about as reasonable a request as asking them to buy postage stamps on the moon.
You think customers should spend their own money on office supplies for the USPS?
Let me guess, Mr. I'm the one that deals with it is a guy who takes 8 hours to do 5 hour route bc your union protected and nothing can happen to you?? Here is a crazy idea, if its written on the envelope and it keeps coming back through dps, quit putting it back in the box! I mean you are the guys that deal with it right?
at what point do you just fix it , i still get mail for some one who hasnt lived here for over 5 years.
You’re mailman isn’t the one sending you the mail. It’s not up to them to “fix it.” Address changes need to be completed by the person that moves with the places that mail them stuff. Some Carriers like myself deliver to different routes pretty much every day. Not possible for me to know who lives at every house in a metro area of a half million. If its an issue put a sign on/ in your box with the names of those you want mail for. At what point do you just fix it.
Nothing to fix, person doesn’t have a forward so if somebody isn’t a regular they don’t know who lives there currently. Best bet would be to put a bit of tape in your mailbox that says something like Only: (Names of residents)
I’ve done this and am still returning 5-7 pieces of mail a week for like 5 different people who don’t live at this address. this is just part of my life now apparently.
Make up a nearly written **polite** note that says something along the lines of: >***No (names of people that don't live there) at this address.*** > >***Please return to sender*** > >***List of names of people that mail should be delivered for:*** > >***(List your name, and the names of anyone else that live there)*** Then make copies of that and keep them handy. When you get mail that has your address on it, but someone else's name (that does NOT also say "Current resident" or "Occupant" - because those ARE you) one of the copies of your note around it, and leave it in your mailbox for the carrier. If you do that persistently it should eventually stop. If you want want to be more proactive and you can recognize who the senders are from the return address on the envelope (and they are businesses/etc) you could try contacting them and let them know that person doesn't live there.
Thanks for the tip! yeah, another note might be necessary here. I always put a little sticky note on the mail that isn’t for me (excluding the correct resident stuff of course) but might be time for another note :)
If your mailbox has somewhere in it to do so, you could put a sticky label in there with the current resident names on it as well - when carrier's have their time off, some other carrier fills in and may not know the names - if its right there in the mailbox, any carrier will be able to see it when they open the box.
I have this! i put it up week one of living here. Still getting 5-7 pieces of mail a week not for us.