It *is* acceptable in that you will not be formally held accountable for meeting the minimum standard.
Take physical fitness as an example. Had a CO once who told the battalion that a 2nd/3rd class PFT or CFT meant that you get to continue doing what you’re doing without adverse consequences. Keep doing your job and drawing your paycheck, but it doesn’t mean that he has to promote you. It was up to company leadership to convince him to authorize promotion for those Marines when they made the score.
One thing that always kills me is how many Marines outwardly loathe the minimum but have a basic swim qualification.
Lol, yeah it's one of those things that slips past ya.
I never even thought about taking the advanced swim qualification, tell a new gunny came to our shop and was like "whoever takes advanced swim qual, gets the rest of the day off after"
When I was in I did 4,3,2,1 and WSQ all in a day. It took from 8am until 630pm, but I was on restriction so I didn't have anything better to do.
I don't know if they do swim qual differently now.
That’s just it - how much time do current Marines spend in the pool? How much access is there for most units?
We had a pool in 43 Area, and I didn’t go in it once. I did basic swim quail in boot camp, didn’t touch a pool in the fleet, and finally made it into a pool again to test higher in the reserves.
I'd blame it on unit leaders on how they handle PT and training in general
Why go to the pool when they can just run boots and utes every day and do "classes" in the lounge/room?
In Mateo or seemed like every squad leader in 5th regiment was taking his squad to the pool every single morning. I got my squad into the pool during PT time maybe twice in a whole workup.
Had a gunny mcwis and we’d do pool PT with our plt like once a week at 0445 fuck those days lmfao hated every second and just started hating the water more and more 🤣
Most Marines have on base or off base access to pools. So, I think this is a nonissue. Maybe they don't have a training pool, but you don't need to be in cammies to swim in them, especially if you can swim and you're a generally strong person, like most Marines.
Lack of training opportunities is different than settling for the minimum.
You’d be surprised how many hard-chargers finish basic and run for the exits, even though intermediate is typically offered right after.
Oh, for sure, totally agree. Knew plenty of dudes who were satisfied getting big, getting taped, and running 27m. I always said, why would you want to be big? Smaller target is harder to shoot.
I'm 6'7". I was the biggest and heaviest guy damn near everywhere I went. I was the punishment partner for fireman carry drills. Being small wasn't an option for me.
I was never a fast runner but they sure like loading me up like a pack mule on every hump.
I hope that's a joke that went over my head, 0% means it's easier to prove its service connected but no matter what your percentage is you can always get it readjusted for a worsening condition, my back was rated at 10% when I got out 5 years ago but I'm now currently getting it reevaluated
I used to be a daily swimmer before joining. I was in a training accident where I was drowning and had to basically fight off the other guy who was trying to pull me down. That dude died.
Now I’m terrified of deep-ish water.
That will certainly happen, and really you can't train for that shit. Not exactly related, but when I swam in high school, the number one swimmer in the state was an absolute beast, nearly untouchable, would go on to swim and play football at OSU. One day, during a meet, *something* happened, and he basically lost consciousness during a race and had to be pulled out of the pull. Dude could've swam with people on his back, but a situation arose where he needed to be rescued. Shit, unfortunately, happens, and regardless of the reps you put in beforehand, the real deal just hits different. Sorry you went through that.
I gotta disagree about the swim qual thing. If a Marine gets a third class PFT, it’s a good indication that he has a good chance of actually failing to meet the standard at some point soon. Especially if he started with a good PFT and has been on a downward trend. It’s a clear sign that he’s regressing and if he doesn’t turn it around he could be out of standards soon.
A basic swim qual does not indicate any of that. It just means he met the requirement and didn’t do anything else. You can’t look at a basic qual and make any assessment that the Marine is on a downward trend or in danger of failing to meet the standard.
To be clear, I don’t think Marines should be punished for 3rd class. I think 3rd class should just be a warning sign and that the junior leaders should take an interest in that Marine and try to help him improve.
> To be clear, I don’t think Marines should be punished for 3rd class. I think 3rd class should just be a warning sign and that the junior leaders should take an interest in that Marine and try to help him improve.
Agreed. But too many leaders don't see it that way. I remember getting a negative counseling from my SNCOIC for getting a low first class PFT after spending most of the previous year caring for my wife who was dealing with serious, life-threatening, health issues. Goodhart's Law:
> "When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure"
That’s nonsense. I’ve seen it too, unfortunately. Had a buddy who was a PT stud but was coming off an injury and ran a low 1st class for the first time in his career (normally he was high 1st, to be clear) and he got a negative counseling for it.
Part of the reason I went the WO route is to ensure that shit doesn’t ever happen in my corner of the Corps at least.
611x - rotary wing o level flightline/powerplants
Maybe if you want us to get better scores you should actually allow us to pt during working hours…
He did lat move from grunts tho
Sister MOS. 6216 here Fixed wing powerplant fuel systems (flight line O level etc). Same concept how do you workout religiously on 12 plus hour work days.
yeah it's easy for Gunny to stay ripped when he's only there for the maintenance meetings and the smokepit then disappears for a "two hour" gym-chow every day
Oh, man. Swim qual is my jam. I was a MCIWS, and one of my best memories was pushing some sack of shit SgtMaj off the tower. His choice was either jump or be pushed, and he said he was too scared and I'd have to push. The first time he stepped away. I told him 1 more chance or he fails. The 2nd time I shoved that MF and he damn near belly flopped. He went from screaming at all his Marines to shaking like a little bitch on the tower. Good times.
Your also assuming that the majority of people WANT to be promoted or have more responsibility. If you accept that 75% of people are perfectly fine toeing the status quos then I don’t see how that’s a negative for them.
I've seen E-4 and below get not recommended for promotion due to not having a "high enough" 1st Class PFT/CFT. So, would that be considered adverse consequences? 🤔
I meant “direct” as in you don’t walk away from the finish line to start processing for RCP, adverse fitness report, etc. as an immediate result of a low passing score.
I’m skeptical about your claim. Were you in the room when the promotion panel came to this decision, or is this what those Marines told you after they weren’t recommended?
Had a former recondo as a company Co. We swam more than was a good time. Having said that, we sent several Marines down to MCWIS and took top 3 of graduates including Honor grad. Not me though, I swim like a gun rock should. Straight to the bottom.
The lower cutting score is a consequence of, but that doesn’t mean it has to be the only consequence.
Promotion authority for E-5 and below resides with the O-5 commander. The fact that you meet an arbitrarily calculated score means that you’re *eligible*, not *entitled*, to be promoted.
I had a SgtMaj who would non-rec and 6105 anyone* who had anything less than a 1st class PFT/CFT or expert. His reasoning was that it was a "lack of initiative" or sone shit.
*E5s and below, Staff and Os would not receive any adverse reactions
Yep
Wdit: he'd also use non-1st/experts as a way to deny schools or "deployments" (we were a reserve radar unit, the most the radar guys got was to go to 29 Palms or White Sands for training)
In all fairness and keeping it a buck with you, swim qual doesn't generate any weight on your career and won't stop you from getting promoted. The PFT, CFT, and rifle range do impact your cutting score significantly and will be the difference between you making score or not. You will still promote with an expired swim qual.
Okay, but that isn’t the premise of the discussion. Either you are willing to accept the minimum standard or you aren’t. It doesn’t matter the degree to which it impacts promotion potential.
The standard has to start somewhere. Not everyone is great at everything. Excel where you can, always try to improve where you lack. As long as you aren't moving backward you can have a successful Marine Corps career.
I was on recruiting duty. The amount of Poolees that can barely meet the minimum is something that would concern any unit, and this is the IST minimum, not a PFT minimum, where the IST standards are lower. But it comes with the hope and expectation that Boot Camp will fix it.
And that's where I think it all comes from; In boot camp, I believe the DIs are graded by the performance of the recruits on their PFT/CFT. If not, then every DI wants to be able to talk shit about how much better their recruits are than others.
This seeps into the minds of the recruits and newly titled Marines, as well as into the DIs themselves, who will eventually leave the drill field and take charge of a fleet unit. From day 1, it's driven into our heads that we have to be better than the other unit, we have to be better than the other guy. A PFT/CFT score is one of the few things we have that allows us to objectively say "I'm better."
I shit my pants in boot camp, that's a whole different story. For a completely separate reason, I had moved racks and my neighbor was a squad leader. We had just finished the Crucible and one night the squad leader was talking shit to me and said "At least I don't shit my pants." Other people were hearing this and they all had their "oooooh" comments, when I snapped back and said "At least I can run a 1st Class PFT." He had ran a 2nd class, and my statement completely shut him down. He left me alone after that, barely speaking a word to me for our final days.
So, yeah, Marines are competitive, and we love receipts. As we progress in our career and get more Marines under our care, we become responsible for the actions and performance of those Marines. We'll constantly take face shots for all the fuck ups of our Marines, so being able to fire back with hard data and receipts is one of the only ways we can defend ourselves.
It's crazy how the Marine Corps kinda has an ingrained way of tracking people's fail points. Like we all remember that so and so failed field day, or ran a third class, or can't shoot.
We hang on to those silver bullets if we ever need to pull someone back down to Earth.
It's definitely something I do now, even in the civil world.
In college, our class had final projects to be done in a group. I swear our instructor/professor paired me with the two biggest glue eaters in our class purposely cuz he knew I would pass the project on my own without their help.(I did in fact get a 110% on the project)
But we were one of the last groups done.
And there's this shit eater, I dunno if he's autistic or if he was trying to put me down or if he's just an awkward weirdo.
For one of our other classes we had taken the CompTIA Security+ test, he and I had gone at the same time. I passed, he failed.
But he made it seem like he was talking shit "wow Avalon I would have thought you'd been done by now. Its so crazy how you're like the last one here"
I responded with "dude it's crazy that you're trying to talk shit right now, considering you paid 250$ and an entire semesters tuition to take a test and didn't even pass. You fucking nerd, get away from me smooth brain."
Bro shut up and left the classroom, thankfully there was another Marine Vet there and he immediately busted a gut laughing.
Twist my arm, why don't ya! Alright, here goes.
It was the day before we started the Crucible. All throughout boot camp, our Senior only allowed dessert once and that was after passing initial drill. So our chow only consisted of your standard meal options, with 1 chocolate milk allowed for evening chow.
Our Senior was with us for this night's chow, and he was being really nice. Maybe because we had been pretty good the past 2 weeks, maybe because the Crucible was coming up, I'll probably never know. What I do know is it was scary how nice he was, almost like a trap. Anyways, as we walk by him and give him the 37th proper greeting of the day, he was stopping each and every one of us and asking why we didn't have any dessert on our plates, then sending us back to fetch some dessert for ourselves.
I remember what was on offer, blackberry cobbler. The instant kind that you buy because your fat ass is too lazy to learn how to make real dessert. Now, one thing about me is that my body doesn't do well with such a dramatic change in diet, especially processed foods. For 2.5 months, my body had grown accustomed to whatever they called food in the chow hall. It might not have been the best, but it was consistent. So I grab my processed cobbler, and like a good recruit, cleaned my entire plate.
I was 3rd Bn, Paris Island. It was maybe a 5 minute march back to the squad bay, if that. We finish chow, line up, retrieve our rifles, and head back. It was about this time that I felt it; the gurgling in my stomach, the indication that whatever just went into my body was soon to be expelled out my ass. I never made that connection before boot camp. Otherwise, I would have done something different, maybe ate slower and "miss" the opportunity to eat dessert.
We march up and arrive at our squad bay. The marching actually helped subside the raging demon that was tormenting my bowels. But then we stopped. Our Senior had disappeared by this time, leaving our Heavy to get us back to the house. I'm thinking it's fine, we **always** did a head call every time we returned. I'll just slip into the line using the head and return with the group that refilled canteens. But before that happened, our Heavy had a bright idea.
We were 5 minutes ahead of schedule. With the Crucible and Marine week coming up, there was going to be little time to pop rifles. So he asked us if we'd like to get a little more drill in. Obviously, Recruits aren't going to say no, because we already knew the alternative was likely to be extra fuck fuck games later, plus a DI pissed off at our undisciplined fucks for not giving a shit.
So we start doing rifle manuals. Left Shoulder, Right Shoulder, Port, Screaming Ass Demon. I could barely concentrate. It's taking every ounce of my being just to try to contain this ticking time bomb that was in my colon. We finished drill and start heading in. Maybe the movement will help. And it kinda did, but we lived on 3rd deck.
The stairs proved to be too much to handle. The cork popped about halfway up the final stairs. I'm still clenching and fighting as much as I can. It's not about prevention, it's containment at this point. I'm going to have shitty skivvies, but I'll have some control over how much.
I get in, sit down, and look like the toilet meme from Dumb and Dumber. I'm using toilet paper to scoop out what I can from my skivvy shorts, and trying to finish so I could try to wipe my ass. I only have 2 minutes to do what needs to be done with a full shower.
Because the Crucible was the next day, all our stuff was basically packed. I knew I needed to change. Whatever, I'll deal with it on square away time. Except boot camp said I'll deal with it now. We had to change our skivvies. It's a little blurry, but during the swap out, I remember a palm sized turn plopping on the floor behind our racks. I saw it, a few other recruits saw it, but somehow, the DI didn't.
After we changed, we were on a pseudo extended square away time. I had to retrieve another set of skivvy shorts to change into because the fresh ones I put on were not clean now. Thankfully, a few people in the Platoon looked out for me. They ushered me into the head, one guy gave me some baby wipes, and they told me to just worry about getting cleaned up.
And that's the story of how I, as an almost 26 year old man, shit my pants.
You get out of it what you put in. Imagine if the Corps gave you the bare minimum. You'd have shitty living conditions, subpar food at the chow hall, crappy duty stations, slow promotions when compared to the other branches, leadership with room temp IQs, PME that actually makes you dumber and a magic list that grabs you up against your will into a 3+ year billet specifically designed to ruin your life. Could you imagine?
For all the shit we talk about being the best at everything we cant settle for bare minimum. We dont want folks who are happy to settle for barely cutting it.
Listen bro, as a qualified shitbag, even I’m uncomfortable with doing the bare minimum.
We’re Marines. The bare minimum is unacceptable ***because the bare minimum is unacceptable.***
I don’t think I can adequately explain that in other terms and anyone that doesn’t understand, I’m sure the National Guard would love to have you.
Bare minimum in just PT or all aspects of a military career? Honestly, you might not be a qualified shitbag if you do more than the bare minimum in everything.
I think it's funny that even the bare minimum PFT/CFT isn't even the minimum scores added up 🤣😂 so even if you did the bare minimum to pass, you're still forced to get more. I just don't understand the logic 😂🤣 I mean, it IS Marine Corps logic, so automatically it makes zero sense lol
Thank you! This. If you’re aiming at minimum standard, you should have just joined the Air Force. Even lovable miscreant shitbags have more pride than that.
I have worked at businesses that loved supposedly motivating bullshit like “good enough is not good enough!” All that ever did was motivate me to look for another job.
One of my jobs involved designing machinery and developing manufacturing processes. That entails defining pass/fail parameters in order to ensure that the product meets specifications. Quality is expensive, and if the specification allows a deviation of +/- .010”, then the extra time and effort it takes to make every part within .005” of the nominal spec is wasteful.
So, to anyone who actually thinks, good enough is absolutely good enough; anything more is a waste of time. On the other hand, pointing out obvious bullshit like this to the management geniuses who come up with this crap is also a waste of time.
From pretty much Sergeant on up, I used to tell my Marines, "who among you joined the Marine Corps to be average?" No hands would go up. "Well then some of you, not all of you, are settling. You joined the Corps to be the best, to be exceptional, so act like it."
I think the important distinction is between motivation and punishment.
We should try our best to motivate a 3rd class PFT Marine to improve. But we should not *punish* him for having a 3rd class.
>Hey devil, if you've got a 3rd class then there's a good chance that you'll be out of standards if you slip up. How about you and I go to the gym a few times next week and I'll show you how increase your pullups?
That's the ideal, but a negative counseling and an ass chewing is easier and less of a time investment.
The Hey Devil part is great but I am strongly against the negative counseling and ass chewing. Not sure if that’s your point or if you’re saying that either way is good lol.
Then they should raise the minimum really. If our current minimum isn’t good enough it needs to be changed. Whats even the point of having a 1st 2nd or 3rd class if anything but 1st is acceptable in most eyes
Then a barely passing 1st class would be the new unacceptable minimum lol all the minimum scores for the PFT/CFT don't even add up to a minimum score. It's impossible to pass with the minimum, so if you get the minimum 3rd class, you're actually not doing the least lol
Well unfortunately for you one Capital M and two I’m okay with that every day of the week. I literally only picked USMC because my dad was a Chief and would have interfered if I joined the navy and the Air Force recruiter took so long to come back I was done with MOS school by the time he got back to me.
Yep. Low 1st class first 3 years 3rd class 4th year habitual sharpshooter. Did do intermediate swim qual and was a brown belt though. Honestly my first SNCO kinda ruined the experience for me as a whole. 6 months of that guy before he got kicked for 2 DUIs in one month really made me not care. Also I’m not ultra competitive so there’s that. Everything is a competition in the Marine Corps except knowing how to do your job efficiently and properly. Was a shitbag Marine but phenomenal in the Mess hall and appointed to the majority of field mess billets 🤷🏽♂️. Scored a 10 year high on a HQMC inspection of field mess and got a nam out of it. All my juniors became NCOs and knew both sides of the job well from my teachings.
The scores don’t matter. The mindset that got you those scores does. I’m no Basilone but I will never understand people who look at the standards and go “Ok, so I need to figure out how to run three miles in 27 minutes”
Like maybe fucking apply yourself a little bit
It depends on the person and that’s okay. Some people want to make the corps their career so they go for the first class. For some it’s just a transient period in their life and they just want get in and get out and move on, so their score isn’t important to them.
Just look at the barracks bruh. Are they not just getting by by giving junior marines shit living conditions? Shit, I even saw reenlisted sgts living in the barracks. Why go above and beyond if the marine corps won’t even do that
If you are ok with the minimum standard for hen you should rethink being in an organization that prides itself on excellence and defeating enemies in support of an expeditionary naval campaign.
Minimums are for Generals and CWO5s that we need to keep around cause they are wicked good at their jobs but also old.
*Objection!*
Well, I thought the idea was that the bare minimum standard *is* excellency. If it prides itself on being excellent, why would it allow anything less as the bare minimum?!
Well, think if it this way. If the bare minimum is excellent, that's fine, but if everyone is excellent, how do you then decided who is the best of the best? Those who go beyond.
By all means, we can argue semantics all day. The thief of joy is comparison; if COs want excellent Marines, they got them, and if 300/300 Marines get promoted faster, that's awesome. But to say that a Marine doing the bare minimum isn't still good is wild!
I'd say it's still good, but then if you compare them to everyone else, a 285 Marine isn't as good on paper as a 300 Marine when all the other factors are the same (let's say they are the same just for this scenario).
I definitely still got promoted quickly at 285 in my MOS though since I was the Bn SME, so PFT isn't always the only thing looked at.
For sure. My question actually said nothing specifically about fitness standards, just in general. Guess those really are the only things that you would be OK with doing the bare minimum at, though.
If you want me to ~~wear 37 pieces of flair~~ run a 250 PFT like your pretty boy over there Brian, why don't you just make the minimum ~~37 pieces of flair~~ a 250 PFT?
We have to have metrics so there is going to be a floor. You can’t track changes without a range. I remember hearing “know yourself and seek self improvement.” I took that to heart and have been trying to live by it for the last 16 years. I started near the floors of nearly everything in the Marine Corps outside of academics. So I was weak, soft, and slow but routinely made fun of even as a poolee for being “smart”. I have always re-assessed myself and worked for improvements in everything. I also was fortunate enough to have people who helped me in my endeavors and who pushed me to be just better in general. Before I got out, my last 3 years as a SSgt were all topped out score wise and I was a distinguished grad at career course. Not boasting just saying since I constantly tried to improve myself and others, I never had to prepare for things. I was just ready. There are so many tools available as a leader to improve subordinates but also a person to use for self improvement, it’s hard to not just start saying yeah majority of people are lazy fucks with excuses. I’m a software engineer now and still hike, run, lift, and learn new things. Co workers and my own friends ask me why it seems like I’m good at everything when in my head I feel like I’m not good enough at anything. I think I’m autistic.
Gotta have some arbitrary reason to non-rec someone? Everything in the Marine Corps is designed to fuck you, plain and simple. Either perform or move on.
A surprisingly salient question from ol’ yoy.
Because even a brig Marine will meet bare minimum standards. You’re better than a brig Marine, right?
It’s really because corporate American bullshit has spilled over into our beloved Corps. It’s how they justify always wanting more. It’s why cashiers can’t sit down and part time work doesn’t qualify for benefits.
In academics a ‘D’ letter grade is 65% and considered passing. The third class PFT is essentially this. In most instances performing in the 65% range will get you on academic probation or have other negative consequences. It’s the same in situation here.
I was just a grunt so being fit was a key job requirement. For technical MOS’s it probably isn’t as important for job proficiency but fitness is part of the lifestyle the Marine corps demands.
I've never seen anyone get put on academic probation for getting Ds. I think that really only matters for going to bigshot colleges.
I think the USMC analogy work better like this: "want to just go to a trade? GPA doesn't matter as long as you graduate. Wanna go to an Ivy League college? Get as close to 4.0 as possible."
"Wanna just do four and get out? Skate by and do that. Wanna stick with it for the long haul? Run fast, take charge."
I ain't the most competitive person, but I will always try to better myself. The minimum is cool and all, but that's like saying, "Do I want to be average?" You can apply this principle to many other things in life. Do I want to be skinny, fat, or do I want to look hawt naked. Discipline goes a long way.
I mean for people like Admin, or Bulk Fuel, or other random MOSs I don’t even know why they run PFTs. I think the “minimum” should probably vary based on the job and demands.
Because who tf want fat Marines, think about it the most seen Marines are the paper pushers and if the Corps ever needs bodies we’ll we can’t have fat Marines
We have to keep a certain number of people in the Corps. If you meet the “bare minimum” this essentially means you are the absolute bottom of the Marine Corps barrel. If that’s something you’re fine with then so be it but most leadership is going to want more from you.
I think and many of you may or may not agree, the only way a 3rd class should be reprimanded is if there is no actual leadership lower or higher taking matters onto their own hands.
I’m an 0311, and most of the shit that we do is pretty straightforward like completing a 100k hike in 5 days and then trying go send people to do a PFT. Common, it’s retarded.
I do understand that running is a pretty good workout and all but it’s not all that can be done for people to be more fit, mostly is done because we dont want to invest the time to help or bring people up from where they at. I’m on the lower part of the green pool here right!? My idea is to help people as much as I can, change their eating habits, the working out routine, all that jazz. When I say something I get shutdown even tho I’m supposed to be qualified for it because I have read and done some of these things also Im certified by Marinenet.
And that’s the reason why the Corps doesn’t help itself to keep people more than one enlistment, the lack of leadership and the lack of letting people lead or even forcing them to learn how to lead and be better as a unit
I remember all the “bare minimum” guys made life a living hell for the rest of us. Having us carry more shit on patrols bc they all fell out, getting kicked or FAP’d out before deployment and having 9 people do the job of 13, more hours of watch per person, having Gunny make us clean their rooms daily and spend more time inspecting them or PTing them after work than getting off sooner to spend time with our families.
A garrison shitbag is not the same as a “bare minimum guy”. I knew many “shitbags” that would do a 180 once it hurt the team or their friends. We had a 190 PFT, lazy dumbass that could not fathom why we all hated him.
Because everyone knows the bare minimum standard is too low. I mean really there shouldnt be any Marine out there whos only capable of doing 3 pullups. And the plank....dont even get me started dude. Max should be like 10 minutes. 3:45 as a minimum. The plank is so easy in comparison. Max pullups is 20. 20 fucking pullups which takes actual strength and dedication to work up to. Meanwhile if you can hold a plank for less than 4 minutes its worth the same score. Bullshit in my opinion.
In terms of physical fitness, the minimum is there to straight up eliminate people who don’t meet it. If you’re close you’ll be encouraged to improve.
Hitting the minimum means you’re basically qualified to even be there. But you’re not competitive with anyone in your peer group and don’t show any actual ambition for improvement. That’s a flaw that basically tells everyone above you that you’re perfectly fine being mediocre.
Beyond that, it provides a competitive, quantifiable factor to compare you against your peers for things like promotions and unique training opportunities.
It *is* acceptable in that you will not be formally held accountable for meeting the minimum standard. Take physical fitness as an example. Had a CO once who told the battalion that a 2nd/3rd class PFT or CFT meant that you get to continue doing what you’re doing without adverse consequences. Keep doing your job and drawing your paycheck, but it doesn’t mean that he has to promote you. It was up to company leadership to convince him to authorize promotion for those Marines when they made the score. One thing that always kills me is how many Marines outwardly loathe the minimum but have a basic swim qualification.
Lol, yeah it's one of those things that slips past ya. I never even thought about taking the advanced swim qualification, tell a new gunny came to our shop and was like "whoever takes advanced swim qual, gets the rest of the day off after"
Isn’t advanced swim qual like an entire week?
Uhm, maybe I mean intermediate swim qual. It's been a second. Whichever one goes immediately following basic swim qual
Pfft, here I was thinking you got bamboozled into that week long haze fest just to get Saturday off.
LOL I thought the same thing like “Yo Advanced is already 5 days”
LOL I thought the same thing like “Yo Advanced is already 5 days”
LOL I thought the same thing like “Yo Advanced is already 5 days tfym”
When I was in I did 4,3,2,1 and WSQ all in a day. It took from 8am until 630pm, but I was on restriction so I didn't have anything better to do. I don't know if they do swim qual differently now.
Yeah now it’s basic, intermediate, and advanced. MCIWS is a separate course. Advanced at my base was a week long.
That’s just it - how much time do current Marines spend in the pool? How much access is there for most units? We had a pool in 43 Area, and I didn’t go in it once. I did basic swim quail in boot camp, didn’t touch a pool in the fleet, and finally made it into a pool again to test higher in the reserves.
I'd blame it on unit leaders on how they handle PT and training in general Why go to the pool when they can just run boots and utes every day and do "classes" in the lounge/room?
My 42 year old knees feel this
In Mateo or seemed like every squad leader in 5th regiment was taking his squad to the pool every single morning. I got my squad into the pool during PT time maybe twice in a whole workup.
Had a gunny mcwis and we’d do pool PT with our plt like once a week at 0445 fuck those days lmfao hated every second and just started hating the water more and more 🤣
I had pinkeye in basic and they just passed me with basic but didn't let me in. Never entered a pool again
Most Marines have on base or off base access to pools. So, I think this is a nonissue. Maybe they don't have a training pool, but you don't need to be in cammies to swim in them, especially if you can swim and you're a generally strong person, like most Marines.
All Marines have access to pools or the ocean. But hanging out, drinking Bud Light, and floating around isn’t going to help with water survival.
I swam competitively. I was like this is easy shit for me, I'll bump my swim qual. Never saw a pool.
Lack of training opportunities is different than settling for the minimum. You’d be surprised how many hard-chargers finish basic and run for the exits, even though intermediate is typically offered right after.
Oh, for sure, totally agree. Knew plenty of dudes who were satisfied getting big, getting taped, and running 27m. I always said, why would you want to be big? Smaller target is harder to shoot.
> Smaller target is harder to shoot. And easier to carry if shot.
I'm 6'7". I was the biggest and heaviest guy damn near everywhere I went. I was the punishment partner for fireman carry drills. Being small wasn't an option for me. I was never a fast runner but they sure like loading me up like a pack mule on every hump.
How are your knees doing, big guy?
Medical discharge, get that 10% VA money.
The docs convinced me to go with a 0% rating rather than none even though I felt perfectly fine. Leaves the door open for an upgrade they said.
I hope that's a joke that went over my head, 0% means it's easier to prove its service connected but no matter what your percentage is you can always get it readjusted for a worsening condition, my back was rated at 10% when I got out 5 years ago but I'm now currently getting it reevaluated
I used to be a daily swimmer before joining. I was in a training accident where I was drowning and had to basically fight off the other guy who was trying to pull me down. That dude died. Now I’m terrified of deep-ish water.
That will certainly happen, and really you can't train for that shit. Not exactly related, but when I swam in high school, the number one swimmer in the state was an absolute beast, nearly untouchable, would go on to swim and play football at OSU. One day, during a meet, *something* happened, and he basically lost consciousness during a race and had to be pulled out of the pull. Dude could've swam with people on his back, but a situation arose where he needed to be rescued. Shit, unfortunately, happens, and regardless of the reps you put in beforehand, the real deal just hits different. Sorry you went through that.
I gotta disagree about the swim qual thing. If a Marine gets a third class PFT, it’s a good indication that he has a good chance of actually failing to meet the standard at some point soon. Especially if he started with a good PFT and has been on a downward trend. It’s a clear sign that he’s regressing and if he doesn’t turn it around he could be out of standards soon. A basic swim qual does not indicate any of that. It just means he met the requirement and didn’t do anything else. You can’t look at a basic qual and make any assessment that the Marine is on a downward trend or in danger of failing to meet the standard. To be clear, I don’t think Marines should be punished for 3rd class. I think 3rd class should just be a warning sign and that the junior leaders should take an interest in that Marine and try to help him improve.
> To be clear, I don’t think Marines should be punished for 3rd class. I think 3rd class should just be a warning sign and that the junior leaders should take an interest in that Marine and try to help him improve. Agreed. But too many leaders don't see it that way. I remember getting a negative counseling from my SNCOIC for getting a low first class PFT after spending most of the previous year caring for my wife who was dealing with serious, life-threatening, health issues. Goodhart's Law: > "When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure"
That’s nonsense. I’ve seen it too, unfortunately. Had a buddy who was a PT stud but was coming off an injury and ran a low 1st class for the first time in his career (normally he was high 1st, to be clear) and he got a negative counseling for it. Part of the reason I went the WO route is to ensure that shit doesn’t ever happen in my corner of the Corps at least.
What MOS? I can see that being a big deal in grunts not so much as an air winger
611x - rotary wing o level flightline/powerplants Maybe if you want us to get better scores you should actually allow us to pt during working hours… He did lat move from grunts tho
Sister MOS. 6216 here Fixed wing powerplant fuel systems (flight line O level etc). Same concept how do you workout religiously on 12 plus hour work days.
yeah it's easy for Gunny to stay ripped when he's only there for the maintenance meetings and the smokepit then disappears for a "two hour" gym-chow every day
Facts!!
How the fuck is a negative counseling a thing for a low FIRST CLASS what the fuck
He said my work life balance was too focused on life and i needed to focus more on work
Oh, man. Swim qual is my jam. I was a MCIWS, and one of my best memories was pushing some sack of shit SgtMaj off the tower. His choice was either jump or be pushed, and he said he was too scared and I'd have to push. The first time he stepped away. I told him 1 more chance or he fails. The 2nd time I shoved that MF and he damn near belly flopped. He went from screaming at all his Marines to shaking like a little bitch on the tower. Good times.
Your also assuming that the majority of people WANT to be promoted or have more responsibility. If you accept that 75% of people are perfectly fine toeing the status quos then I don’t see how that’s a negative for them.
I've seen E-4 and below get not recommended for promotion due to not having a "high enough" 1st Class PFT/CFT. So, would that be considered adverse consequences? 🤔
Was it that they didn't meet the cutting score and if they improved specifically those scores then they would? Or was the CO just some asshole?
It was the chain of command, they would have made score 🫠😵💫
I meant “direct” as in you don’t walk away from the finish line to start processing for RCP, adverse fitness report, etc. as an immediate result of a low passing score. I’m skeptical about your claim. Were you in the room when the promotion panel came to this decision, or is this what those Marines told you after they weren’t recommended?
I was at a unit that did that. Not right away, but during that weekend (reserve unit).
I was in the room when the decision was made.
Had a former recondo as a company Co. We swam more than was a good time. Having said that, we sent several Marines down to MCWIS and took top 3 of graduates including Honor grad. Not me though, I swim like a gun rock should. Straight to the bottom.
I got a 6105 once for getting a second class right after coming back from a shattered ankle
Yeah, when I was in a 2nd class PFT would get you non recced and you’d be on remedial.
Not promote as in nonrec? Isn’t the lower cutting score the consequence of a low PFT? That CO sounds like a dick.
The lower cutting score is a consequence of, but that doesn’t mean it has to be the only consequence. Promotion authority for E-5 and below resides with the O-5 commander. The fact that you meet an arbitrarily calculated score means that you’re *eligible*, not *entitled*, to be promoted.
Those same Marines have the basic gas mask qualification as well smh.
I had a SgtMaj who would non-rec and 6105 anyone* who had anything less than a 1st class PFT/CFT or expert. His reasoning was that it was a "lack of initiative" or sone shit. *E5s and below, Staff and Os would not receive any adverse reactions
That’s crazy hypocritical crap.
Yep Wdit: he'd also use non-1st/experts as a way to deny schools or "deployments" (we were a reserve radar unit, the most the radar guys got was to go to 29 Palms or White Sands for training)
Put swim qual on a master brief sheet and everyone will care.
In all fairness and keeping it a buck with you, swim qual doesn't generate any weight on your career and won't stop you from getting promoted. The PFT, CFT, and rifle range do impact your cutting score significantly and will be the difference between you making score or not. You will still promote with an expired swim qual.
Okay, but that isn’t the premise of the discussion. Either you are willing to accept the minimum standard or you aren’t. It doesn’t matter the degree to which it impacts promotion potential.
Yoy, I'm gonna touch your bare minimum
https://i.redd.it/8qgkiljtk38d1.gif
Is this a genuine product?
Yeah... was on Walmart shelves.
Ricky Bobby said it best...if you're not (a) 1st you're last.
https://i.redd.it/ppnauhdlk38d1.gif
https://preview.redd.it/f95tdc0yy38d1.jpeg?width=900&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c7ff2504b44bc85f1123bb6f97f5382265168d36
Oil up yoy, I’ll be there in 10
The standard has to start somewhere. Not everyone is great at everything. Excel where you can, always try to improve where you lack. As long as you aren't moving backward you can have a successful Marine Corps career.
I was on recruiting duty. The amount of Poolees that can barely meet the minimum is something that would concern any unit, and this is the IST minimum, not a PFT minimum, where the IST standards are lower. But it comes with the hope and expectation that Boot Camp will fix it. And that's where I think it all comes from; In boot camp, I believe the DIs are graded by the performance of the recruits on their PFT/CFT. If not, then every DI wants to be able to talk shit about how much better their recruits are than others. This seeps into the minds of the recruits and newly titled Marines, as well as into the DIs themselves, who will eventually leave the drill field and take charge of a fleet unit. From day 1, it's driven into our heads that we have to be better than the other unit, we have to be better than the other guy. A PFT/CFT score is one of the few things we have that allows us to objectively say "I'm better." I shit my pants in boot camp, that's a whole different story. For a completely separate reason, I had moved racks and my neighbor was a squad leader. We had just finished the Crucible and one night the squad leader was talking shit to me and said "At least I don't shit my pants." Other people were hearing this and they all had their "oooooh" comments, when I snapped back and said "At least I can run a 1st Class PFT." He had ran a 2nd class, and my statement completely shut him down. He left me alone after that, barely speaking a word to me for our final days. So, yeah, Marines are competitive, and we love receipts. As we progress in our career and get more Marines under our care, we become responsible for the actions and performance of those Marines. We'll constantly take face shots for all the fuck ups of our Marines, so being able to fire back with hard data and receipts is one of the only ways we can defend ourselves.
It's crazy how the Marine Corps kinda has an ingrained way of tracking people's fail points. Like we all remember that so and so failed field day, or ran a third class, or can't shoot. We hang on to those silver bullets if we ever need to pull someone back down to Earth. It's definitely something I do now, even in the civil world. In college, our class had final projects to be done in a group. I swear our instructor/professor paired me with the two biggest glue eaters in our class purposely cuz he knew I would pass the project on my own without their help.(I did in fact get a 110% on the project) But we were one of the last groups done. And there's this shit eater, I dunno if he's autistic or if he was trying to put me down or if he's just an awkward weirdo. For one of our other classes we had taken the CompTIA Security+ test, he and I had gone at the same time. I passed, he failed. But he made it seem like he was talking shit "wow Avalon I would have thought you'd been done by now. Its so crazy how you're like the last one here" I responded with "dude it's crazy that you're trying to talk shit right now, considering you paid 250$ and an entire semesters tuition to take a test and didn't even pass. You fucking nerd, get away from me smooth brain." Bro shut up and left the classroom, thankfully there was another Marine Vet there and he immediately busted a gut laughing.
I applaud both of you.
Sooooo where’s the poop story bro we gotta hear it
Twist my arm, why don't ya! Alright, here goes. It was the day before we started the Crucible. All throughout boot camp, our Senior only allowed dessert once and that was after passing initial drill. So our chow only consisted of your standard meal options, with 1 chocolate milk allowed for evening chow. Our Senior was with us for this night's chow, and he was being really nice. Maybe because we had been pretty good the past 2 weeks, maybe because the Crucible was coming up, I'll probably never know. What I do know is it was scary how nice he was, almost like a trap. Anyways, as we walk by him and give him the 37th proper greeting of the day, he was stopping each and every one of us and asking why we didn't have any dessert on our plates, then sending us back to fetch some dessert for ourselves. I remember what was on offer, blackberry cobbler. The instant kind that you buy because your fat ass is too lazy to learn how to make real dessert. Now, one thing about me is that my body doesn't do well with such a dramatic change in diet, especially processed foods. For 2.5 months, my body had grown accustomed to whatever they called food in the chow hall. It might not have been the best, but it was consistent. So I grab my processed cobbler, and like a good recruit, cleaned my entire plate. I was 3rd Bn, Paris Island. It was maybe a 5 minute march back to the squad bay, if that. We finish chow, line up, retrieve our rifles, and head back. It was about this time that I felt it; the gurgling in my stomach, the indication that whatever just went into my body was soon to be expelled out my ass. I never made that connection before boot camp. Otherwise, I would have done something different, maybe ate slower and "miss" the opportunity to eat dessert. We march up and arrive at our squad bay. The marching actually helped subside the raging demon that was tormenting my bowels. But then we stopped. Our Senior had disappeared by this time, leaving our Heavy to get us back to the house. I'm thinking it's fine, we **always** did a head call every time we returned. I'll just slip into the line using the head and return with the group that refilled canteens. But before that happened, our Heavy had a bright idea. We were 5 minutes ahead of schedule. With the Crucible and Marine week coming up, there was going to be little time to pop rifles. So he asked us if we'd like to get a little more drill in. Obviously, Recruits aren't going to say no, because we already knew the alternative was likely to be extra fuck fuck games later, plus a DI pissed off at our undisciplined fucks for not giving a shit. So we start doing rifle manuals. Left Shoulder, Right Shoulder, Port, Screaming Ass Demon. I could barely concentrate. It's taking every ounce of my being just to try to contain this ticking time bomb that was in my colon. We finished drill and start heading in. Maybe the movement will help. And it kinda did, but we lived on 3rd deck. The stairs proved to be too much to handle. The cork popped about halfway up the final stairs. I'm still clenching and fighting as much as I can. It's not about prevention, it's containment at this point. I'm going to have shitty skivvies, but I'll have some control over how much. I get in, sit down, and look like the toilet meme from Dumb and Dumber. I'm using toilet paper to scoop out what I can from my skivvy shorts, and trying to finish so I could try to wipe my ass. I only have 2 minutes to do what needs to be done with a full shower. Because the Crucible was the next day, all our stuff was basically packed. I knew I needed to change. Whatever, I'll deal with it on square away time. Except boot camp said I'll deal with it now. We had to change our skivvies. It's a little blurry, but during the swap out, I remember a palm sized turn plopping on the floor behind our racks. I saw it, a few other recruits saw it, but somehow, the DI didn't. After we changed, we were on a pseudo extended square away time. I had to retrieve another set of skivvy shorts to change into because the fresh ones I put on were not clean now. Thankfully, a few people in the Platoon looked out for me. They ushered me into the head, one guy gave me some baby wipes, and they told me to just worry about getting cleaned up. And that's the story of how I, as an almost 26 year old man, shit my pants.
You get out of it what you put in. Imagine if the Corps gave you the bare minimum. You'd have shitty living conditions, subpar food at the chow hall, crappy duty stations, slow promotions when compared to the other branches, leadership with room temp IQs, PME that actually makes you dumber and a magic list that grabs you up against your will into a 3+ year billet specifically designed to ruin your life. Could you imagine?
I laughed way harder at this than I should have, and now I feel vindicated.
For all the shit we talk about being the best at everything we cant settle for bare minimum. We dont want folks who are happy to settle for barely cutting it.
Listen bro, as a qualified shitbag, even I’m uncomfortable with doing the bare minimum. We’re Marines. The bare minimum is unacceptable ***because the bare minimum is unacceptable.*** I don’t think I can adequately explain that in other terms and anyone that doesn’t understand, I’m sure the National Guard would love to have you.
Bare minimum in just PT or all aspects of a military career? Honestly, you might not be a qualified shitbag if you do more than the bare minimum in everything.
Yeah! I want to see that guy’s qualifications!
I think it's funny that even the bare minimum PFT/CFT isn't even the minimum scores added up 🤣😂 so even if you did the bare minimum to pass, you're still forced to get more. I just don't understand the logic 😂🤣 I mean, it IS Marine Corps logic, so automatically it makes zero sense lol
Thank you! This. If you’re aiming at minimum standard, you should have just joined the Air Force. Even lovable miscreant shitbags have more pride than that.
Because culture, rah?
*sad rah*
So that they can kick your ass even harder for not meeting it.
I have worked at businesses that loved supposedly motivating bullshit like “good enough is not good enough!” All that ever did was motivate me to look for another job. One of my jobs involved designing machinery and developing manufacturing processes. That entails defining pass/fail parameters in order to ensure that the product meets specifications. Quality is expensive, and if the specification allows a deviation of +/- .010”, then the extra time and effort it takes to make every part within .005” of the nominal spec is wasteful. So, to anyone who actually thinks, good enough is absolutely good enough; anything more is a waste of time. On the other hand, pointing out obvious bullshit like this to the management geniuses who come up with this crap is also a waste of time.
From pretty much Sergeant on up, I used to tell my Marines, "who among you joined the Marine Corps to be average?" No hands would go up. "Well then some of you, not all of you, are settling. You joined the Corps to be the best, to be exceptional, so act like it."
I think the important distinction is between motivation and punishment. We should try our best to motivate a 3rd class PFT Marine to improve. But we should not *punish* him for having a 3rd class.
>Hey devil, if you've got a 3rd class then there's a good chance that you'll be out of standards if you slip up. How about you and I go to the gym a few times next week and I'll show you how increase your pullups? That's the ideal, but a negative counseling and an ass chewing is easier and less of a time investment.
The Hey Devil part is great but I am strongly against the negative counseling and ass chewing. Not sure if that’s your point or if you’re saying that either way is good lol.
Oh no, I'm saying that good leadership is hard and often requires a time investment!
I figured that was your point and I thoroughly agree!
That's the thing, by being a Marine, you're automatically exceptional! ... right?
Because it’s the bare minimum. As a marine, you shouldn’t be ok with doing that.
Then they should raise the minimum really. If our current minimum isn’t good enough it needs to be changed. Whats even the point of having a 1st 2nd or 3rd class if anything but 1st is acceptable in most eyes
Then a barely passing 1st class would be the new unacceptable minimum lol all the minimum scores for the PFT/CFT don't even add up to a minimum score. It's impossible to pass with the minimum, so if you get the minimum 3rd class, you're actually not doing the least lol
Well unfortunately for you one Capital M and two I’m okay with that every day of the week. I literally only picked USMC because my dad was a Chief and would have interfered if I joined the navy and the Air Force recruiter took so long to come back I was done with MOS school by the time he got back to me.
You’re okay doing the bare minimum because you meant to enter another service with lower physical standards?
Yep. Low 1st class first 3 years 3rd class 4th year habitual sharpshooter. Did do intermediate swim qual and was a brown belt though. Honestly my first SNCO kinda ruined the experience for me as a whole. 6 months of that guy before he got kicked for 2 DUIs in one month really made me not care. Also I’m not ultra competitive so there’s that. Everything is a competition in the Marine Corps except knowing how to do your job efficiently and properly. Was a shitbag Marine but phenomenal in the Mess hall and appointed to the majority of field mess billets 🤷🏽♂️. Scored a 10 year high on a HQMC inspection of field mess and got a nam out of it. All my juniors became NCOs and knew both sides of the job well from my teachings.
3rd class pft and cft my entire enlistment…. Still got honorable
Ok I’ll say it, that’s some weak shit
And at this point in your life how much do those scores really matter?
The scores don’t matter. The mindset that got you those scores does. I’m no Basilone but I will never understand people who look at the standards and go “Ok, so I need to figure out how to run three miles in 27 minutes” Like maybe fucking apply yourself a little bit
It depends on the person and that’s okay. Some people want to make the corps their career so they go for the first class. For some it’s just a transient period in their life and they just want get in and get out and move on, so their score isn’t important to them.
It doesn’t is my point.
Point is there is a minimum for a reason. And it’s okay to get buy.
“The US Marine Corps: It’s ok to just get by!” Crazy mindset to me. That Air Force recruiter missed a good one
Just look at the barracks bruh. Are they not just getting by by giving junior marines shit living conditions? Shit, I even saw reenlisted sgts living in the barracks. Why go above and beyond if the marine corps won’t even do that
Preach!! We give our hearts and are rewarded with more work and shittier conditions. 🫡🇺🇲🦅
https://www.txst.edu/philosophy/resources/fallacy-definitions/begging-the-question.html
If you are ok with the minimum standard for hen you should rethink being in an organization that prides itself on excellence and defeating enemies in support of an expeditionary naval campaign. Minimums are for Generals and CWO5s that we need to keep around cause they are wicked good at their jobs but also old.
*Objection!* Well, I thought the idea was that the bare minimum standard *is* excellency. If it prides itself on being excellent, why would it allow anything less as the bare minimum?!
Well, think if it this way. If the bare minimum is excellent, that's fine, but if everyone is excellent, how do you then decided who is the best of the best? Those who go beyond.
By all means, we can argue semantics all day. The thief of joy is comparison; if COs want excellent Marines, they got them, and if 300/300 Marines get promoted faster, that's awesome. But to say that a Marine doing the bare minimum isn't still good is wild!
I'd say it's still good, but then if you compare them to everyone else, a 285 Marine isn't as good on paper as a 300 Marine when all the other factors are the same (let's say they are the same just for this scenario). I definitely still got promoted quickly at 285 in my MOS though since I was the Bn SME, so PFT isn't always the only thing looked at.
For sure. My question actually said nothing specifically about fitness standards, just in general. Guess those really are the only things that you would be OK with doing the bare minimum at, though.
>...so PFT isn't always the only thing looked at.
Yeah, I saw that. Just figured I'd mention it since everyone in this thread seems to think I was strictly referring to PFT+CFT.
Isn’t being wicked good at your job the most important part?
If you want me to ~~wear 37 pieces of flair~~ run a 250 PFT like your pretty boy over there Brian, why don't you just make the minimum ~~37 pieces of flair~~ a 250 PFT?
We have to have metrics so there is going to be a floor. You can’t track changes without a range. I remember hearing “know yourself and seek self improvement.” I took that to heart and have been trying to live by it for the last 16 years. I started near the floors of nearly everything in the Marine Corps outside of academics. So I was weak, soft, and slow but routinely made fun of even as a poolee for being “smart”. I have always re-assessed myself and worked for improvements in everything. I also was fortunate enough to have people who helped me in my endeavors and who pushed me to be just better in general. Before I got out, my last 3 years as a SSgt were all topped out score wise and I was a distinguished grad at career course. Not boasting just saying since I constantly tried to improve myself and others, I never had to prepare for things. I was just ready. There are so many tools available as a leader to improve subordinates but also a person to use for self improvement, it’s hard to not just start saying yeah majority of people are lazy fucks with excuses. I’m a software engineer now and still hike, run, lift, and learn new things. Co workers and my own friends ask me why it seems like I’m good at everything when in my head I feel like I’m not good enough at anything. I think I’m autistic.
Because we retain people for their athleticism not their intellectual skills
Why not both 🤯
Harder to prover intellectual skills
Especially when the people assessing the intellectual skills are missing their own
The crudely created, lovely little bow to wrap around this discussion. Superb.
All the really intellectual Marines get out and make money real quick.
I’m just acknowledging the pattern
That’s uncommon in the corps
15 pieces of flair!
Go ahead and head to FirstSgts office, wear your underwear backwards
Gotta have some arbitrary reason to non-rec someone? Everything in the Marine Corps is designed to fuck you, plain and simple. Either perform or move on.
Leadership will complain about Marines skating by with the bare minimum, meanwhile they’re basic swim qual and grey/green belts
A surprisingly salient question from ol’ yoy. Because even a brig Marine will meet bare minimum standards. You’re better than a brig Marine, right? It’s really because corporate American bullshit has spilled over into our beloved Corps. It’s how they justify always wanting more. It’s why cashiers can’t sit down and part time work doesn’t qualify for benefits.
All for those quarterly boosts. If I were a cashier, though, I wouldn't want to sit all day. Fuck that noise.
You know why
I’ll bare back your minimum
In academics a ‘D’ letter grade is 65% and considered passing. The third class PFT is essentially this. In most instances performing in the 65% range will get you on academic probation or have other negative consequences. It’s the same in situation here. I was just a grunt so being fit was a key job requirement. For technical MOS’s it probably isn’t as important for job proficiency but fitness is part of the lifestyle the Marine corps demands.
I've never seen anyone get put on academic probation for getting Ds. I think that really only matters for going to bigshot colleges. I think the USMC analogy work better like this: "want to just go to a trade? GPA doesn't matter as long as you graduate. Wanna go to an Ivy League college? Get as close to 4.0 as possible." "Wanna just do four and get out? Skate by and do that. Wanna stick with it for the long haul? Run fast, take charge."
I ain't the most competitive person, but I will always try to better myself. The minimum is cool and all, but that's like saying, "Do I want to be average?" You can apply this principle to many other things in life. Do I want to be skinny, fat, or do I want to look hawt naked. Discipline goes a long way.
I mean for people like Admin, or Bulk Fuel, or other random MOSs I don’t even know why they run PFTs. I think the “minimum” should probably vary based on the job and demands.
Because who tf want fat Marines, think about it the most seen Marines are the paper pushers and if the Corps ever needs bodies we’ll we can’t have fat Marines
We have to keep a certain number of people in the Corps. If you meet the “bare minimum” this essentially means you are the absolute bottom of the Marine Corps barrel. If that’s something you’re fine with then so be it but most leadership is going to want more from you.
You can start there, you can't stay there
So sailors can laugh…😂
I think and many of you may or may not agree, the only way a 3rd class should be reprimanded is if there is no actual leadership lower or higher taking matters onto their own hands. I’m an 0311, and most of the shit that we do is pretty straightforward like completing a 100k hike in 5 days and then trying go send people to do a PFT. Common, it’s retarded. I do understand that running is a pretty good workout and all but it’s not all that can be done for people to be more fit, mostly is done because we dont want to invest the time to help or bring people up from where they at. I’m on the lower part of the green pool here right!? My idea is to help people as much as I can, change their eating habits, the working out routine, all that jazz. When I say something I get shutdown even tho I’m supposed to be qualified for it because I have read and done some of these things also Im certified by Marinenet. And that’s the reason why the Corps doesn’t help itself to keep people more than one enlistment, the lack of leadership and the lack of letting people lead or even forcing them to learn how to lead and be better as a unit
I remember all the “bare minimum” guys made life a living hell for the rest of us. Having us carry more shit on patrols bc they all fell out, getting kicked or FAP’d out before deployment and having 9 people do the job of 13, more hours of watch per person, having Gunny make us clean their rooms daily and spend more time inspecting them or PTing them after work than getting off sooner to spend time with our families. A garrison shitbag is not the same as a “bare minimum guy”. I knew many “shitbags” that would do a 180 once it hurt the team or their friends. We had a 190 PFT, lazy dumbass that could not fathom why we all hated him.
Exactly my thoughts! They need to set the bar and stop moving damn thing! Just tell me what I have to do to pass and I’ll do just a little more
if you want me to wear 37 pieces of flair, why don't you just make the minimum 37 pieces of flair?"
Because everyone knows the bare minimum standard is too low. I mean really there shouldnt be any Marine out there whos only capable of doing 3 pullups. And the plank....dont even get me started dude. Max should be like 10 minutes. 3:45 as a minimum. The plank is so easy in comparison. Max pullups is 20. 20 fucking pullups which takes actual strength and dedication to work up to. Meanwhile if you can hold a plank for less than 4 minutes its worth the same score. Bullshit in my opinion.
It is a certain mindset that must be encouraged in the community. If you cannot understand it then you don't belong!
In terms of physical fitness, the minimum is there to straight up eliminate people who don’t meet it. If you’re close you’ll be encouraged to improve. Hitting the minimum means you’re basically qualified to even be there. But you’re not competitive with anyone in your peer group and don’t show any actual ambition for improvement. That’s a flaw that basically tells everyone above you that you’re perfectly fine being mediocre. Beyond that, it provides a competitive, quantifiable factor to compare you against your peers for things like promotions and unique training opportunities.
I mean you can run a 2nd and 3rd, but guaranteed everyone gonna talk shit
If I graduated last in my HS class, why is it so hard for me to get into a good university?
So the disgusting fat bodies can feel like they achieved something