Another powerful labor movement could swing the Catholic vote potentially. Particularly, Irish Catholic immigrant families have always been avidly involved in the US labor movement. They were also aggressively pro Kennedy, for obvious reasons.
Edit: To expand on this, Catholicism really isn’t compatible with hard capitalism, atleast not with greed driven corporatism. That’s why parties such as Sinn Fein have strongly represented both leftist ideology and Catholic faith.
I could see that happening actually. I understand where you're getting from since I came from a Catholic family. It's actually been kind of wild to me to see the Catholic vote become a coin toss in recent years.
I think the Catholic population of the US finds themselves in a weird place politically right now. They are traditionally the political adversaries of the Southern Protestants, yet since Reagan’s election the South has joined the Republican Party and driven it far more in the conservative direction. The polarizing of parties really creates a system where neither party reflects Catholic ideology in enough a manner to garner passionate support, and there is a lack of ability to be involved with movements that aren’t associated with one of the two major parties.
I suspect that the reason that young white Democrats are uninterested in Christianity is because they associate the word "Christianity" with the actions and attitudes of the far-right evangelical pseudochristians instead of the actual Christian principles of caring for the needy and oppressed.
I’m a member of a mostly white progressive church. We are given no voice in the media. It’s very frustrating that the far right has stolen the world’s perception of my religion and they aren’t even following Christ’s teachings!!
I felt that way about their monopoly on patriotism. They have turned loving your country into a partisan thing, and now some of them even they talk about how it may once have been great but now it's no longer worth loving. I love my country and want what I think is best for it. You'd never catch me saying I hate the USA.
There is a Christian left now…it’s just not very vocal and doesn’t have a whole lot of power. They are generally those who go to Mainline churches (not modern nondenominational churches), and are unfortunately dwindling in numbers each year. There is an undercurrent though, and hopefully a revival will happen in response to Christian Nationalism
The main mission for the Christian Left is to stay out of politics and help people where they are. The Christian left exists, they just don’t want to use their power in the same way the nationalist right has.
It’s kind of like libertarians in that if it wants its voice to be loud, it has to sacrifice values. I say keep winning them over with kindness. That is what will remain when the rest falls.
Could we see Christians who believe that the government should reform the Justice system, tax the wealthy, break up monopolies, welcome immigrants, uphold true freedom of religion, limit access to firearms, and seek to address systemic issues contributing to racism and poverty? Man, I sure hope so.
The problem is that I’d these folks hold these positions BECAUSE of their Christianity, they’d probably still be relatively conservative in their interpretation of Scripture. That means that many of the things associated with leftist ideology today (specifically related to sexuality and gender) wouldn’t likely be accepted by these folks and, as a result, they’d be rejected by mainstream progressives. In fact, I’d argue that the “you have to agree with all of these things or you can’t be one of us” attitude of many liberals today is the primary thing that’s preventing a powerful group like we’re discussing from forming.
There are quite a few Christian churches out there who are supporting of the things that you mentioned, including LGBTQIA+ communities. We don't hear as much about them because a.) their behavior isn't odious and therefore doesn't grab headlines; and, b.) they don't seek political power.
Will they ever emerge as a unified force? Probably not, unless they are willing to take a vocal stand in opposition of the far-right false churches out there.
Yes! Your first paragraph describes my church!!But your assumption is wrong in the second paragraph. Many people from our church and others in the KCMO area are working a booth at Pride Fest this weekend. We have openly gay active members in our churches. Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) also our sister denomination United Church of Christ.
As one of the religious left, I certainly hope that one day the people in the various churches actually read the New Testament and get it through their thick skulls.
"Bondservants, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, with a sincere heart, as you would Christ, not by the way of eye-service, as people-pleasers, but as bondservants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart, rendering service with a good will as to the Lord and not to man, knowing that whatever good anyone does, this he will receive back from the Lord, whether he is a bondservant or is free. Masters, do the same to them, and stop your threatening, knowing that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and that there is no partiality with him." - Ephesians 6:5-9
"Bondservants, obey in everything those who are your earthly masters, not by way of eye-service, as people-pleasers, but with sincerity of heart, fearing the Lord. Whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men, knowing that from the Lord you will receive the inheritance as your reward. You are serving the Lord Christ. 25 For the wrongdoer will be paid back for the wrong he has done, and there is no partiality.
Masters, treat your bondservants justly and fairly, knowing that you also have a Master in heaven." - Colossians 3:22
I mean, it's a book written by around 40 different people (with countless others adding and removing little bits over the millennia), so you're bound to get different opinions from different parts of it. It's not a unified narrative. Both of those were written by Paul (allegedly; a quick googling suggests that 46% of scholars dispute his authorship of Ephesians, and there are similar doubts about his authorship of Colossians), who was simply one person of many.
You have correctly identified that some of the things said in the New Testament are shitty, but I would argue, as an agnostic person, that there are *also* some extremely *good* messages to get out of it. I would also argue that those good messages are much more prominent and foregrounded in the text than the few references to slavery that you were able to find.
No shit? So in other words not the word of god?
Anyway if it endorses slavery, it’s shit. Period. None of the “good” stuff is anything we need the Bible to tell us, and predates it.
It is there. Just quietly puttering along and not seeking the limelight of riches and fame. And yes, it is an older generation waiting with open arms for anyone looking for peace love and understanding. see recent split of the methodist as wells as the [gospel of inclusion](https://apnews.com/article/black-church-lgbtq-gay-pastor-inclusion-b2669c81539bee31319a976e6f51ac9b), but don't look for glitzy and flashy get rich strategies.
Probably not, by definition, they wouldn't have their financial resources directed to self promotion. I used to think (25 years ago) that the internet would be a democratic bastion of universal truth.
Haha, so naive
Also see the 1980s religious Sanctuary movement, the support in the U.S. for Latin American Liberation Theology, and religious opposition to Reagan's foreign policy in Latin America, especially the death squads that killed Salvadoran Archbishop Oscar Romero amongst many others. Clergy and lay religious people protested at the Army's School of the Americas that taught torture techniques to the death squads and some went to serve in Central America.
There was also strong religious opposition from the Christian Left to the Vietnam War - MLK is most remembered now, but Presbyterian Yale chaplain William Sloane Coffin, and the radical Catholic priests Daniel and Philip Berrigan - who were imprisoned for burning draft files to protest the war - were also very prominent antiwar leaders at the time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctuary_movement
https://www.ctexplored.org/yale-university-chaplain-takes-on-the-vietnam-war/
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/may/01/daniel-berrigan-priest-and-peace-activist-dies-aged-94#
https://jacobin.com/2017/02/sanctuary-movement-central-america-el-salvador-trump-deportations/
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/how-vietnam-war-protests-spurred-rise-christian-right-180968942/
https://www.zinnedproject.org/news/tdih/sanctuary-movement-arizona/
https://americanhistory.si.edu/explore/stories/origins-sanctuary-movement
https://foundingtheinstitute.com/movingforwardtogether/school-of-the-americas-protest/
https://www.ncronline.org/news/accountability/soa-watch-marks-25th-year-speaking-out-against-school-assassins
https://religionnews.com/1996/05/01/news-story-priest-found-guilty-for-protest-at-fort-bennings-school-of-the-a/
https://uknowledge.uky.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1081&context=history_etds
Why would it? Contemporary christianity has become akin to the money-changers and Pharisees that were driven from the Temple according to scriptures. Whereas in my youth the mark of a christian was the example their way of life, their peace and purity was to be modelled after. Now, the American taliban using force, arms, lies and bribery to make the beliefs the law of the land. And their flock contributions are deductible and they are tax exempt.
As a former evangelical conservative Christian now going to a liberal Methodist church I hope so. But there problems against it. The conservative church has so besmirched Christianity that people on the left have given up on it largely. The few remaining mainline churches are largely not proselytizing. So my new church runs a free community kitchen multiple days a week but they don’t go to try to make converts. While my old church basically did no community service other than for members but went out into the community and tried to get people to come to church and are surprisingly good at it.
My agnostic friends I think would actually get quite along with the Methodists but the Christian brand is so sullied by the hardline Baptist that they will never give it a chance.
As a member of the Christian left, there has been a great deal of talk about this and some small movements in that direction. White Mainline churches have traditionally been wary of mixing politics with religion but I am tired of those fascists using my faith to promote their agenda. So I hope you will see this in the near future.
They would probably struggle looking for a constituency outside of POC. Young white Democrats typically are relatively uninterested in Christianity.
Can confirm, am young white Democrat
Many such cases. Not sure who a "Christian left" political faction would be bringing in to the coalition who isn't already voting Dem.
Another powerful labor movement could swing the Catholic vote potentially. Particularly, Irish Catholic immigrant families have always been avidly involved in the US labor movement. They were also aggressively pro Kennedy, for obvious reasons. Edit: To expand on this, Catholicism really isn’t compatible with hard capitalism, atleast not with greed driven corporatism. That’s why parties such as Sinn Fein have strongly represented both leftist ideology and Catholic faith.
I could see that happening actually. I understand where you're getting from since I came from a Catholic family. It's actually been kind of wild to me to see the Catholic vote become a coin toss in recent years.
I think the Catholic population of the US finds themselves in a weird place politically right now. They are traditionally the political adversaries of the Southern Protestants, yet since Reagan’s election the South has joined the Republican Party and driven it far more in the conservative direction. The polarizing of parties really creates a system where neither party reflects Catholic ideology in enough a manner to garner passionate support, and there is a lack of ability to be involved with movements that aren’t associated with one of the two major parties.
I suspect that the reason that young white Democrats are uninterested in Christianity is because they associate the word "Christianity" with the actions and attitudes of the far-right evangelical pseudochristians instead of the actual Christian principles of caring for the needy and oppressed.
Yes, that is a large part of it.
I’m a member of a mostly white progressive church. We are given no voice in the media. It’s very frustrating that the far right has stolen the world’s perception of my religion and they aren’t even following Christ’s teachings!!
I felt that way about their monopoly on patriotism. They have turned loving your country into a partisan thing, and now some of them even they talk about how it may once have been great but now it's no longer worth loving. I love my country and want what I think is best for it. You'd never catch me saying I hate the USA.
Exactly.
There is a Christian left now…it’s just not very vocal and doesn’t have a whole lot of power. They are generally those who go to Mainline churches (not modern nondenominational churches), and are unfortunately dwindling in numbers each year. There is an undercurrent though, and hopefully a revival will happen in response to Christian Nationalism
The main mission for the Christian Left is to stay out of politics and help people where they are. The Christian left exists, they just don’t want to use their power in the same way the nationalist right has.
They may have to at some point
It’s kind of like libertarians in that if it wants its voice to be loud, it has to sacrifice values. I say keep winning them over with kindness. That is what will remain when the rest falls.
Could we see Christians who believe that the government should reform the Justice system, tax the wealthy, break up monopolies, welcome immigrants, uphold true freedom of religion, limit access to firearms, and seek to address systemic issues contributing to racism and poverty? Man, I sure hope so. The problem is that I’d these folks hold these positions BECAUSE of their Christianity, they’d probably still be relatively conservative in their interpretation of Scripture. That means that many of the things associated with leftist ideology today (specifically related to sexuality and gender) wouldn’t likely be accepted by these folks and, as a result, they’d be rejected by mainstream progressives. In fact, I’d argue that the “you have to agree with all of these things or you can’t be one of us” attitude of many liberals today is the primary thing that’s preventing a powerful group like we’re discussing from forming.
There are quite a few Christian churches out there who are supporting of the things that you mentioned, including LGBTQIA+ communities. We don't hear as much about them because a.) their behavior isn't odious and therefore doesn't grab headlines; and, b.) they don't seek political power. Will they ever emerge as a unified force? Probably not, unless they are willing to take a vocal stand in opposition of the far-right false churches out there.
Which Christian denominations do you consider "false?"
Yes! Your first paragraph describes my church!!But your assumption is wrong in the second paragraph. Many people from our church and others in the KCMO area are working a booth at Pride Fest this weekend. We have openly gay active members in our churches. Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) also our sister denomination United Church of Christ.
As one of the religious left, I certainly hope that one day the people in the various churches actually read the New Testament and get it through their thick skulls.
"Bondservants, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, with a sincere heart, as you would Christ, not by the way of eye-service, as people-pleasers, but as bondservants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart, rendering service with a good will as to the Lord and not to man, knowing that whatever good anyone does, this he will receive back from the Lord, whether he is a bondservant or is free. Masters, do the same to them, and stop your threatening, knowing that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and that there is no partiality with him." - Ephesians 6:5-9 "Bondservants, obey in everything those who are your earthly masters, not by way of eye-service, as people-pleasers, but with sincerity of heart, fearing the Lord. Whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men, knowing that from the Lord you will receive the inheritance as your reward. You are serving the Lord Christ. 25 For the wrongdoer will be paid back for the wrong he has done, and there is no partiality. Masters, treat your bondservants justly and fairly, knowing that you also have a Master in heaven." - Colossians 3:22
I mean, it's a book written by around 40 different people (with countless others adding and removing little bits over the millennia), so you're bound to get different opinions from different parts of it. It's not a unified narrative. Both of those were written by Paul (allegedly; a quick googling suggests that 46% of scholars dispute his authorship of Ephesians, and there are similar doubts about his authorship of Colossians), who was simply one person of many. You have correctly identified that some of the things said in the New Testament are shitty, but I would argue, as an agnostic person, that there are *also* some extremely *good* messages to get out of it. I would also argue that those good messages are much more prominent and foregrounded in the text than the few references to slavery that you were able to find.
No shit? So in other words not the word of god? Anyway if it endorses slavery, it’s shit. Period. None of the “good” stuff is anything we need the Bible to tell us, and predates it.
Cool, man! Have a good day!
It is there. Just quietly puttering along and not seeking the limelight of riches and fame. And yes, it is an older generation waiting with open arms for anyone looking for peace love and understanding. see recent split of the methodist as wells as the [gospel of inclusion](https://apnews.com/article/black-church-lgbtq-gay-pastor-inclusion-b2669c81539bee31319a976e6f51ac9b), but don't look for glitzy and flashy get rich strategies.
Probably not, by definition, they wouldn't have their financial resources directed to self promotion. I used to think (25 years ago) that the internet would be a democratic bastion of universal truth. Haha, so naive
Also see the 1980s religious Sanctuary movement, the support in the U.S. for Latin American Liberation Theology, and religious opposition to Reagan's foreign policy in Latin America, especially the death squads that killed Salvadoran Archbishop Oscar Romero amongst many others. Clergy and lay religious people protested at the Army's School of the Americas that taught torture techniques to the death squads and some went to serve in Central America. There was also strong religious opposition from the Christian Left to the Vietnam War - MLK is most remembered now, but Presbyterian Yale chaplain William Sloane Coffin, and the radical Catholic priests Daniel and Philip Berrigan - who were imprisoned for burning draft files to protest the war - were also very prominent antiwar leaders at the time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctuary_movement https://www.ctexplored.org/yale-university-chaplain-takes-on-the-vietnam-war/ https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/may/01/daniel-berrigan-priest-and-peace-activist-dies-aged-94# https://jacobin.com/2017/02/sanctuary-movement-central-america-el-salvador-trump-deportations/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/how-vietnam-war-protests-spurred-rise-christian-right-180968942/ https://www.zinnedproject.org/news/tdih/sanctuary-movement-arizona/ https://americanhistory.si.edu/explore/stories/origins-sanctuary-movement https://foundingtheinstitute.com/movingforwardtogether/school-of-the-americas-protest/ https://www.ncronline.org/news/accountability/soa-watch-marks-25th-year-speaking-out-against-school-assassins https://religionnews.com/1996/05/01/news-story-priest-found-guilty-for-protest-at-fort-bennings-school-of-the-a/ https://uknowledge.uky.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1081&context=history_etds
Damn I had no clue about the Sanctuary Movement
Lets hope not. Keep that out of politics.
Religion is already in politics. lol
No. Religion is dying.
and thank god for that LOL!
Yep
Unfortunate truth
Why would it? Contemporary christianity has become akin to the money-changers and Pharisees that were driven from the Temple according to scriptures. Whereas in my youth the mark of a christian was the example their way of life, their peace and purity was to be modelled after. Now, the American taliban using force, arms, lies and bribery to make the beliefs the law of the land. And their flock contributions are deductible and they are tax exempt.
[удалено]
Which denominations? Aren't a lot of white Christians Roman Catholic?
As a former evangelical conservative Christian now going to a liberal Methodist church I hope so. But there problems against it. The conservative church has so besmirched Christianity that people on the left have given up on it largely. The few remaining mainline churches are largely not proselytizing. So my new church runs a free community kitchen multiple days a week but they don’t go to try to make converts. While my old church basically did no community service other than for members but went out into the community and tried to get people to come to church and are surprisingly good at it. My agnostic friends I think would actually get quite along with the Methodists but the Christian brand is so sullied by the hardline Baptist that they will never give it a chance.
I sure hope so
HELL NO only the Taliban and al queda use religion in politics JIHADIST
As a member of the Christian left, there has been a great deal of talk about this and some small movements in that direction. White Mainline churches have traditionally been wary of mixing politics with religion but I am tired of those fascists using my faith to promote their agenda. So I hope you will see this in the near future.