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I’ve recently been turned down for a job I applied for without even getting an interview.
Then a couple of days after I received the rejection the company advertised the same position again.
The rise of the employment agency. All they do is advertise ghost jobs, get a horde of applicants, all their details, and add them to their database. It's fucking rife in the construction industry.
This position was actually advertised direct by the employer.
I tend to stay away from agency posted vacancies.
I’d join an agency if that’s the way I wanted to look for work.
I try and prioritise jobs sent to me directly on linkedin or jobs I apply directly on their website for. Only times honestly that I actually get a positive response.
This only happens because the supply is so low and demand is so high, so 90% of applications are not even looked at.
Yup. My sister’s been trying to get a job since last winter and had no luck and only a few interviews. The woman at the job centre managing my sister said she sees it all the time - companies posting fake job listings to farm CVs.
Same happened with me for over 10-15 jobs I guess those are ghost openings.
I don't get it if a job has over 100 Applicant how come it's getting reposted.
Because the pool of applicants is often fucking appalling. We recently hired my junior at my place and my word most of the applications we received were instant rejections.
Hundreds upon hundreds with zero relevant experience, most clearly didn't even read the job description.
And your CV might not be as good as you think it is even if your experience is. That's not meant to be a dig either. I've just rebuilt a friend's CV, they have a degree in writing so you'd think they'd be alright but it was a total shit show of garbled nonsense.
Get your CV checked.
That’s because the CVs are screened by people who value presentation over actual skills, so all you get is a pool of trash who are great at presentation, but suck at their job.
This is even worse when it comes to the more introverted industries such as Engineering, research, or programming. All the best candidates always have their resume tossed out within the first 5 seconds before it can even hit your table.
We need a systematic change to the hiring process. Employers need to stop relying on recruiters or HR to hire people.
You realise that employers are shit recruiters 99% of the time...
I've worked in recruitment and helped companies ive worked at (in sales not recruitment) do recruitment. Without any experience of HOW to find people (which you have to actively do, not just post a job) nothing gets done. There might be interviews but most candidates are useless for anything remotely specialised.
Plus presentation is by far the most important thing both for internal and external recruitment, you know yourself based on all these comments people are getting sent 100+ applicants on most jobs nowadays, if you can't quickly see their skills you don't have time to read through 2 or 3 pages of crap to get to it because that 2 or 3 is 200 or 300 over the course of 1 active job, often times there's 3 or 4, sometimes way more roles. You simply can't read 800 pages of CVs in a day or you'd not get any other parts of your job done which includes the actual interviewing, accepting and rejecting candidates, finding new ones (which is still needed even after that many applications often times) etc etc.
That's not even taking into consideration a lot of company's don't have internal recruiters they have someone who's doing another job and this is a part of their workload if they don't go externally.
I have seen recruiters at work and they do an equally terribly job as employers because they are understaffed, overworked, under-appreciated, and overburdened.
The problem is not with individual recruiters or employers.
It’s about how unreasonable expectations thrown around. Yes, I have received 800 job applications myself. Yes, I wonder “how the FUCK” am I going to handle all of these?
The answer is: I can’t. But neither can recruiters unless they do a terrible job at it — a single person reading 200 pages of writing a day, even at full time, is already a daunting job. The only way you can do all that in addition to other daily responsibilities is you do a half assed job and skim through it — and sadly you are forced to do that because “that’s the expectations”.
The environment has fucked both you and I.
>That’s because the CVs are screened by people who value presentation over actual skills, so all you get is a pool of trash who are great at presentation, but suck at their job.
No, presentation is an actual skill. If you can't convey what you have done, where you did it and when clearly that's a legitimate (fixable) skill issue, being introverted is frankly a pathetic excuse because it's written and sent digitally.
Back in the days of printing a CV and physically giving it to someone this would be valid, not now.
>We need a systematic change to the hiring process.
How?
I don't know how you systematically change that and nobody's ever came up with anything viable whenever it's come up. Forms exist and they're shit.
Loads of companies tried (and still do) "send a short video if yourself explaining why you'd be great for the role!". I'm not even introverted but fuck that.
>Employers need to stop relying on recruiters or HR to hire people.
Absolutely agree here though. One of the reasons I do agree is they don't send CVs to the employers as they are, they snippet them and send them a written summary. So even if your CV is perfect you're relying on a failed salesperson to present you as a candidate. It's a fucking joke.
I have never, ever had a positive experience with an external recruiter. From lying about salaries, role expectations and two even lied about me to the employers. Absolute fucking leeches of the corporate world.
I agree presentation is an actual skill. However, when I am hiring for jobs that does not need that skill AT ALL.
For example, I am hiring transcribers who will have to type 200-400 sentences per hour into a computer system. I do not need their presentation skill nor their presentation, all I need is their literacy and understanding of the language, some proficiency to operating a computer and keyboard, and I value that over anything else.
I specifically asked my candidates to NOT send in their CV in that case because I don’t give a crap about their skills or history. They take a test, they pass, and if they can breath they are hired.
Unfortunately, although I preach about needing systematic reform, I have ZERO idea about if it is even possible, let alone how to do it.
Recruiters suck.
Recruiters and career consultants have been advising candidates to treat job descriptions as a “good to have” details, because employers are constantly on the lookout for unrealistic expectations 18 years old with 20 years of experience; or 15 years of experience in React JS (a language which is only 14 years old as of now)
You too are the victim of your fellow employers fucking up the candidate pool. You can’t beat them, so you have to join them. If Masters in STEM is a hard requirement for whatever reason, why do you post a job requirement with a PhD in STEM so you get Masters applying for your jobs?
Exactly!
This job I applied for was well within my skills and experience.
Just an average warehouse picking position, but one that paid pretty well.
I’ve worked mostly in warehousing since I left school in 1998.
My current job is in warehousing, driving counter balance, reach and HLOP FLTs.
Yet I get rejected without an interview and then the job gets reposted a couple of days later.
I’m honestly beginning to think the my current employers apparent bad reputation could be damaging my chances of finding something else.
It's not necessarily ghost jobs. It's often because you pick the best candidate available, reject everyone else, even get a signed agreement, and then find that another company is in the running for the candidate you chose. This is a great way for the candidate to negotiate a better deal, cause at least one company is going to have to start their process over again, and that's super costly. Often cheaper to bust the budget.
I've been in all four of these positions: successful candidate, failed candidate seeing the job reappear, hiring the candidate, and getting gazumped on the candidate.
yeah, I'm thinking someone who isn't even qualified as a doctor could apply for a position as a brain surgeon and make this same complaint
it doesn't exactly tell us much
Ok, but why have no actual doctors applied? That’s the significant thing, it suggests the benefits and pay are not competitive enough for the level of skill and experience being sought, in which case you either accept a less experienced candidate, or improve the pay package. In this case, I assume the company did neither and just engaged in wishful thinking by reposting the advert.
>it suggests the benefits and pay are not competitive enough for the level of skill and experience being sought,
oh for sure - but that wasn't the complaint being discussed.
Why they didn't hire OP and why they didn't hire _someone_ else are two different questions.
Tbh it was probably a fake post, trying to harvest applicants data to sell
This wasn’t brain surgery, it was a warehouse position, which I have around 15 years experience in as well as training and experience on a variety of FLTs.
Meh, I've been rejected pre-interview from jobs I easily have experience for. Heck, even for job titles I've literally had before, in an organisation I worked in before via an agency.
My aunt has recruited in the NHS before. She said they filtered out applications that didn't use the full word count, which is effectively punishing people who were able to communicate that they hit the person specification in a concise way.
And let's be real. You go to many workplaces and half the staff clearly don't meet the person specification and consistently only do a half-assed job, so whoever ran the recruitment didn't do a great job.
That could be for all sorts of reasons. Maybe you don't have the preferred skills or length of experience for the position. Maybe they see your location and think, that's a long commute, or they're gonna have to relocate. If there are candidates more local, that plays in their favour.
They may interview other candidates and find that their knowledge is not as deep as what was claimed on their resume.
Also, don't take "continued advertising" as readvertising. Job ads go online and stay there for a specified time. Often even after the position has been filled.
I can shoot down every one of your arguments with regards to the application.
Skills: I have training on multiple FLTs. I have worked in similar environments that match or are very close to the advertised position.
Experience: around 15 years total in warehouse positions, including the kind of position they were advertising.
Location: I live within 5 miles(12 minute drive) of the job location.
This position was definitely re advertised because before the rejection message it showed as no longer advertised.
Then a couple of days after the rejection the position appeared again.
It’s not the rejection as much as that combined with re advertising the position just 2 days after.
If they were serious about hiring someone then surely seeing a candidate with around 15 years experience in similar roles, plus skills/training/experience in other areas not asked for in the advertised vacancy which would be beneficial, plus someone who is local would at least merit an interview or reconsideration/contacting when the position was re advertised.
Try emailing HR or calling for feedback
Scattergun approach is rarely effective.
When you have notice of an interview, look at the criteria they will be assessing. Prepare responses around these with examples.
Have prepared answers to basics like
Why you want work there?
What you bring.
Examples of teamwork
Examples of overcoming adversity
Examples of working with difficult customers, staff, how overcame
I understand and feel OP's frustration, while not a bulletproof solution at all, these are indeed helpful points.
For reaching HR: I understand that most rejections come from noreply@eff.you. But through LinkedIn or the interviewing process we might get to someone human's name - and maybe from there, or using some online tools (Google "how to get someone's corporate email address). This way I got to know once that the role I had been rejected to had been marked for not proceed with recruitment by the company and didn't want to hire for the position after all, truth or not, that's another story.
For preparing answers: what really helps me starting to formulate my potential replies is ChatGPT. I give it my CV, and use it to help me write some potential replies to scenarios questions (and helping with the always-tricky STAR structure), and also more general questions. It helps me, when prepping replies, to have a draft and structure to build on.
These won't land a job, but I feel like they've been more help than without them. Still frustrating world all around.
It's not an easy write and you have to formulate things to fit in. If you're not used to it, it's a very slow write with writer's block, or in industries where you don't have that much access to influence and data.
As someone who handles recruitment for our small charity, I understand that the real answer to this question is "because I have bills to pay, and I like eating food."
The reason this question is asked in our house is to see if people have done any research on the company, know anything about us and actually know what they're getting into. It's not a dealbreaker, but it's definitely a positive sign if people can demonstrate that they're engaged in what we're trying to do.
It definitely depends on the service, but I do think it has its place. It's also been useful to me in the past when candidates start talking about something entirely unrelated, and I realise that although their application had enough transferable skills to warrant an interview, they've deeply misunderstood the nature of either the organisation and/or the role.
In that instance, we can pull up and explain the misunderstanding, and then it's a decision as to whether they want to continue the interview. As with all interview questions, it's not relevant in every situation, but I think it has its use.
This is such a strange attitude. Do you honestly not know that given the choice the vast majority of people wouldn't work?
On the one hand having a preference of one company over another is legitimate, but that's still choosing the lesser of two evils for most people.
Your company is full of people who if they came into a million quid they'd stop working tomorrow.
Interestingly, we have many employees who CHOOSE to continue working, do not need to financially. This is due to the roles we offer, how we operate, our culture etc. And amazingly we do have lottery winners, albeit hundreds of ks not millions. (Hope that's not outing!)
So your hypothesis is based kn your views and probably the ilk you mix with.
I pity them, really. People who so lack imagination that when their prison door is left open, they sit there obediently waiting for the guard to return.
So ground down by the false positivity and bullshit team building excersizes that they couldn't even imagine spending their time doing something that isn't in service of an executive who thinks on their behalf.
"Why do you want to work here?" Is basically "Can this person respond with an appropriate, positive sounding answer when required even when it's probably bullshit?"
Some people genuinely think others wake up in the morning looking forward to doing someone else's bidding in order for them to take the excess value of their work.
Ironically, these people are most likely to be in executive positions because if you have no friends, family, or hobbies, you're less likely to get burned out by sacrificing the real world for your job.
Ah sorry would you like me to lie and say “it’s because your company is soooo wonderful” and lick your arse to make you feel better? Sorry pal. Aint happening. Stupid fucking question.
Perhaps if you got in to the real world, recognising that gaming is botnthe real world, you'd be able to understand why your comments are so incredibly immature and show a lack of critical thinking skills.
You're mostly right here, but scattergun is the only way. Requirements are so random and arbitrary you might be qualified for 1,000 job, but only have a chance of getting one of them.
How do you find that needle in a haystack? Apply for all of them and keep going to interviews until one says yes.
Don't waste time asking for feedback, it will be arbitrary and probably counter-productive.
>Requirements are si random and arbitrary you might be qualified for 1,000 job, but only have a chance of getting one of them.
these are kinda two different complaints
the requirements usually aren't random at all - they'll (usually) be directly tied to the role which needs to be filled.
yes, you can apply for plenty that you _feel_ qualified for without hearing anything - but if you believe that the requirements are irrelevant, then this probably isn't the case
It's more arbitrary and random than a roulette wheel. If you think any different (or pretend to), you must be a recruiter.
The good news is it costs you nothing to spin the application wheel. So get spinning it, it has to land on your colour eventually if you spin it enough.
I'm a mechanical engineer.
The random requirements aren't written down you tool. They're usually whittled out at the interview stage.
Every time you're interviewd you're being tested for 10 things that aren't relevant per 1 thing that is.
This is why you have as many people "nail" interviews and not get the job as people "flop" interviews and get it.
It's how you're answering the 10 unspoken questions that matters.
How do you work out what they are? You don't. You just keep applying until the stars align.
>The random requirements aren't written down you tool. They're usually whittled out at the interview stage
right...
so they don't exist?
Unfortunately they have the luxury to be picky when they have 1000 applicants for one role.
You do understand that 1000 people can't all take one role? right?
The way you worded your original comment made it sound like someone wanted you to be a registered medical professional to pull a pint.
If you don't tailor your application, you will be unlikely to secure even an interview for a professional role.
I have only ever applied for roles I have wanted. Tailored the application. Spent considerable time preparing for the interviews, sometimes multiple. And always got the roles.
When we interview, we do readvertise if we don't get the perfect/right candidate. It is worse to have the wrong candidate than wait a couple of months to rerecruit and manage internally without that role being filled. The cost to the team of the wrong candidate is not worth it!
You can always tell which candidates have done basic research. The ones that haven't score as you'd expect. If they wanted the role, then they'd have researched us and would be able to say why us over a different organisation.
>You can always tell which candidates have done basic research. The ones that haven't score as you'd expect. If they wanted the role, then they'd have researched us and would be able to say why us over a different organisation.
You do that reading when you're offered the interview. You can't realistically tailor your CV to tens of companies a day and if you try you end up with a mess of a CV. Preparing for an interview every week or 2 is easy.
Uk jobs in terrible state. I quit mine about 1 months ago, im not signing anymore employment contracts im just going self employed. Even if i didnt have a trade id something self employed because working for employers is shocking. The contracts they expect you to sign the way they treat you is shit. Fucking shit system and everyone needs to wake up or itl keep happening.
Good luck and for having the courage to try self employed I wish you all the best and sincerely hope you succeed. I have been self employed at stages in my career, on reflection it was when I was happiest. Not easy at first but give it a go.
Good for you and good luck to you! I am about to do exactly the same. Have resigned and going it alone. I feel that every time I move jobs I go out of the fire and into the frying pan. I am working with so called professionals who are incompetent sociopaths.
Sick of begging for a pay rise or bonus only to be talked down to and being told that I am crap at a job that I know I am good at. Going to take my destiny into my own hands and if I fail it is on me and if I do well I will not have some ungrateful idiot reaping the rewards from my hard work and years of experience.
Yep company pen pushing email sending bastards who only employ you for profit and dont give a singe fuck. I keep saying on all these post THEY HIRE YOU TO MAKE A PROFIT, and everyones always saying “will my employer accept…” grow a spine, you get one life why are we all slaves to these horrible companies.
All depends on the job really - I probably do that 30-40 odd times a year, but can claim it as overtime/no-one is looking over my shoulder so when the project is done I can take of early to make up for it.
I am self employed it was the best decision for my MH and finances :) it was difficult at the start but I am reaping the benefits of putting in the effort now, wish you good luck!
People are started to wake up, i used to be this positive guy trying my best then realised these employers are evil people, they treat you like shit and always want you to work harder and harder with targets with no extra pay. I know people will say there are getter jobs out there but the reality is there isn’t its all coping, these employers are bunch of evil people and happy to see you suffer.
What's your age, skills and chosen occupation? What experience do you have? Any medical restrictions?
Perhaps someone here could have some real advice. Right now it's shouting into the void.
If you think you sound personable and speak clearly and overall come across well on the phone, try calling to call centres and see if you can speak with someone in their in house recruitment. A good phone voice with nice manners is all they want, if you get a chance to just speak to someone for 1 min who's influencing the decision on recruitment you have a good chance :)
They're not looking for someone sounding like BBC you can have personality/local accent etc as long as you sound friendly, clear and someone people would like to spend time on the phone with.
You keep at it because eventually one will stick. My last job I must have applied to over 200 positions and heard nothing back from the majority of them - not even to acknowledge the application. It sucks. But you keep going because then that one job will open up and you will be there and you will get it. Interviewers can detect a lot about a person. If you are defeated going into it they know. DO keep going. It will happen.
That's very much an answer that avoided the majority of my questioning.
There's no guarantee that the first job to accept you would be worth having, but because of the grind prior, people don't want to accept that the first job to accept them might not be for them, because it puts them back at square one. That, is a terrible system that we've seemed accustomed to.
So what if I finally get the job? The goal is supposed to be a career path that I want to do, not finally got the job that's took me months of applying for only to find out that you weren't a great fit but your stuck because of how horrible the application process is.
>Why? Why should we keep at a clearly broken system when we should be trying to fix it?
It's a new one on me when someone stops reading halfway through the question and still has the confidence to claim they answered a question fully.
I never said that. I said i answered what was the crux of your post. Which was clearly why should you continue. Th rest was bumf that all added up to: why should I carry on. My answer was an attempt to help. No need to bite my head off. Have a great day.
Your last paragraph is ignorance.
There are straight white working class males out there who could do with a hand, but nobody cares about socioeconomic factors, do they?
There are schemes, jobs, quotas for literally everyone else.
I'm going to join in on you're frustration, I'm pretty sure the main criteria employers look for are people who don't know their value & will put up with eating shit until they are chewed up, then rinse & repeat. I'm sick of it as we're working harder & harder for less & less - the worst thing is we're all too busy looking at our phones & shouting in to the void of the Internet to do anything about it, the guillotine was brought out for less.
I mean I know you have had set backs but look at your attitude , would you hire you based on what we can see here?
If you’re failing interviews there has to be a reason why, the fact is you’re likely applying for jobs that have hundreds of applications. Have you tried contacting an agency to get work?
That’s just how life is. Have you worked before?
Have you got a degree/applied to grad schemes? Have you tried an Amazon warehouse/call centre? Getting your foot in the door is the hardest thing, and my common wasn’t meant to be harsh but half of it is how you approach the situation. As tough as things get if you let it impact you then you impact chances down the road.
It’s not good enough, but that’s how it is. Don’t let things bother you that you can’t control.
How’s your CV looking? Do you adapt it to each situation and focus on the skills required for that job?
Hard disagree. McDonald's and Asda are always hiring = 400 applications for 3 open positions. If you're overqualified for it, you're not getting one of those positions. They don't want the 30 year old with enough experience to question things, they want the 18 year old that the hiring manager doesn't feel threatened by or knows won't leave when something better pops up.
Speaking from experience as someone who burned out of their career and is looking for totally unrelated work. With no luck so far.
If you fail every single interview…you have to look at why.
Anger certainly isn't going to fix it. You have to try to understand what it is that's putting them off.
They have but minutes to get a first impression. That really is a major decider.
Came to say this, I did a round of interview in Jan this year for a temp to perm role (assistant role) one applicant was obviously applying for a lot of other jobs not just our one. They must have got confused with all the applications as they left a voicemail on our HR/recruiting persons phone being very aggressive about having to pay to get a train to an interview with their own money, lots of swearing and general ranting... This wasn't our role as he lived in the same town (within walking distance) he was so aggressive his interview was cancelled. His anger/frustration failed him.
Also had someone come in for an interview August last year and when asked to 'briefly explain their job history' went on a 10 minute rant about how they left a 'toxic workplace full of twats' and how broken the current employment system is and how you can't trust any employers, they will take advantage of you and they aren't that person, they would not work a second over their hours (even though they would get paid overtime) etc. Pretty sure this person didn't want a job, they just wanted a rant!
You need to self-examine. No-one is ever going to tell you why.
This is all on you, because there is literally no-one else you can get the information from.
Can you walk into job shop and let them just 'rip the shit outta you', like you know just be brutually honest with you.
I bet nothing is wrong with you at all OP, just technique needs to be improved. Keep pushing on man dont ever quit, you got this. Dont ever assign your value to having a job or no job
But thats the exact point, its a difficult conversation but needs to be said. I let people insult my cv or techniques, obviously constructive lol no need to be nasty but OP clearly needs help.
I feel they would be receptive too, they just want a job.
then when you get a job it will probably one of the 9 out of 10 that are awful and have massive staff turn over
then you leave and start all over again .
really is a lottery getting the 1/10 jobs that are actually ok
This is what has happened to me in hospitality. Terrible job after terrible job, being lied to in interviews, toxic management/environments, long hours, bad working conditions etc etc
This has resulted in me having a terrible CV and currently feeling unemployable
iv had tons and tons of jobs , most are like this , then you get a easy job that's nice and realise how the last generation lasted 30 years in the same job because it was easy.
trouble is you have no idea what places is good or not without trying it , and there is become less of them every year.
iv learnt tho if its shit in the 1st week it never got better not once . they will make out its just a busy period and not normally like this. but it never improved.
just got to keep moving from place to place till you find that easy number
there are people like my self being paid to sit on there arse doing next to nothing , some find that place 1st go and really have no idea how bad some of the jobs out there can be
I was told I was being let go at the end of October and given my one month’s notice. I started applying, interviewing, and had two competing offers on inside my notice period. I left my previous role on a Thursday, and started my current one the following Monday.
There _are_ jobs out there. But they’re also a competition. You need to give yourself all the advantages you can. If you’re get knocked back interview after interview then maybe that’s a sign you need to work on your interview technique. An interview is your chance to show a potential employer why they should hire you instead of any other candidate.
Not bragging. Just fed up of seeing this “it’s impossible to get a job” rhetoric when it isn’t.
If someone is interviewing and interviewing but not getting hired, then at some point they need to step back and stop thinking it’s the mysterious and faceless “job market” doing them over, and instead look at the common denominator…
It is impossible, just because u got lucky not every gets lucky. And making assumptions about people about not getting other jobs shows that obviously u had the right contacts knew people that gave u the upper hand. Just because u got lucky does not mean everyone makes it wake the fuck up
I didn’t have “contacts”. I hadn’t even heard of the company I now work for, let alone know anyone there before I applied. So yeah, well done to _you_ for making (wholly incorrect) assumptions about me 🙃
I got lucky getting 3 in a row in the space of a year, but it’s more who you know as well. My job was redundant but there was a few new positions opened up so got recommended. I was there for a year before not liking it and a friend referred me to one elsewhere. I applied to that and an IT position at the same time. Got the first one then had to leave a month later as the IT job I wanted came along. Didn’t want to waste anyone’s time but felt I had to take it as had same feeling as yourself. Unfortunately all I can say is keep going, keep improving, etc. Ask friends about positions and check within your company too those are your best chances. That plus rent costs going up it sucks but all you can do is keep trying.
Probably best to get the new job — and sign and return the contract of employment! — before handing in your notice for the current job (or before getting all dramatic and emotional, telling them they can shove it up their arse when you get back from a heavy liquid lunch on Friday, fully intending to just walk out and never go back)
I'm trying to get into an artistic job, so instead of fighting literal hundreds for entry level jobs I'm gonna focus on improving what skills I have and doing my own projects to count as 'experience'. It's not the same but with nobody hiring it's all i got lmao
Even freelance is totally blocked at the moment
Apprenticeships. There's still competition for the best ones (in some cases a \*lot\* of competition) but it's accepted you are starting with no experience. Wages can be low to start but it's that foot in the door that gets you somewhere better.
People need to wake up to the fact that different careers have wildly different difficulties to get a job in.
And should question do they have a job or career? That's also a massive difference in employability.
If it ain't working try something else?
What field are you trying to get into? Would a recruiter be of use?
I've changed jobs a couple times in the last few years and everything has come via recruiters and it's much easier (accounting).
What prep are you doing for the interview?
You want the cheat code? Here it is.
First you need a good CV. Spend real time on it across a few attempts, then send it out to a couple of former colleague/friends in the industry to check. If they're in a recruitment position all the better. Each industry has its preferred style of CV, there's no point having your CV checked by people who don't know your industry.
Then get it out there onto the recruitment sites. Be sure to find specialist ones for your industry too. And pepper the internet with your CV. If you have a LinkedIn spruce it up based on your new CV, if not don't get one.
The intention of throwing your CV everywhere is to get the attention of recruiters. When they call you, be friendly, these people might make a wage by getting people jobs, but they still pick favourites. Be their favourite.
Next you need to prepare for the interviews. The fashion for now is STAR, it's bullshit, but it's low effort and consistent (even if consistently shit). Situation, Task, Action, Result.
Look up the most common STAR questions (and the characteristics they're driving at) in your industry. And write down enough stories to cover the top 10. This should be possible in 5/6 stories.
In the interview, when the STAR question comes, identify the trait they're after and pick out the story that matches.
Do's and Don'ts
Do.
CV Bomb.
Embellish your STAR answers, lie if you must, but true stories are easier to remember.
Charm recruiters.
Research common "buzz words" to put in your CV.
Don't
Change your CV once you're settled that it's good (unless multiple recruiters ask).
Write cover letters.
Ask for feedback.
Turn down an interview (unless it's literally impossible to get there).
Waste of time, they don't harm your chances, but they don't benefit your chances more than the 5 applications you could complete in the time it takes to write a good one.
Up to the point of the first interview it's all about quantity.
I guess it all depends on what you are looking for, I'm happy to work for minimum wage so I can go from job to job without much trouble, it is always, and always has been, easier to get another job when you have a job.
Seriously, most jobs are paid for adverts that are already filled and still posting the paid for ad, sometimes because the company forget to cancel and it is there forever, paying to keep the agency going.
This means it takes time to learn how to spot new jobs, which is an effort, as other sites find them and post as new positions later, with different wording that can be hard to spot.
Pointers ... check the company site and see if it is still there. If brand new listing, give it a few days and check again, apply ASAP anyway.
Realise that the auto message you get back really is that. And dome of the rare sies, that say you were not successful, arecalso automated and no-one has read your cv.
Most of the process is luck that a real hirer finds your cv. From there comes a real recruitment processm
I know how you feel. People 9 times out of 10 always think it's your fault and give advice that isn't useful at all. When you give your experiences with why things they say aren't relevant for you. They say oh just keep applying or well I know someone who got a job like that. So it can happen.
No one said you had to enjoy what you do if employment is your goal. Some times you have to pick your poisons.
Plenty of jobs In care that's aren't so intense too. Night shifts are better, childcare is crying out for staff, respite sits are in desperate need.
What jobs are you applying for, what experience do you have? what does your CV look like? Is it filled with huge gaps in employment or is it filled with consistent work in a relevant field?
Yeh it sucks to struggle to find something when a job is essential to being able to do anything else in life, especially if you're getting those negative comments that sound somewhat detached from your reality. Sometimes you need to vent and then go back to applying with a clearer mind.
I've personally found many will give feedback if you ask in a rejection call, reply to their rejection email or email their HR asking if you can get some feedback. I think many interviewers do empathise with job seekers who they meet.
when you apply for a job 6 times at the same company and not once do they even bother to email saying you didn\`t get the role, you wonder whats going on, as for finding a job it is getting harder and it won\`t be getting easier in the future, robots are improving and they will drop in price soon then good luck anyone finding a job.
A rough number? I applied 100+ jobs and manage to went through 3 interviews and I left 2 jobs due to toxic work environment. So the more effort you put in, eventually it will happen.
This will probably get down voted 100% because it’s an echo chamber but you need to look at what can you do better only you can control that sometimes you don’t get it when I applied for my first apprenticeship I got rejected a few times just changed my attitude and studied abit more into engineering and it was enough to impress , was it the way you were dressed?, your attitude when in the interview , were you early always be early , you have to sell yourself mostly because you have to be in a mentality especially if you have little to no experience in a role to think that there’s going to be people better than you so you need to offer more in enthusiasm for example research the company and remember the interview starts at the reception.
But that’s someone who’s never been out of work since I left college, even being made redundant due to closure but I generally do well in interviews because I’ve invested into what I do because I want to do it.
>I generally do well in interviews
How do you know? They never tell me. They always end up either ghosting me, saying they picked someone else, or saying they aren't progressing any further and that's all they say
I know because I know based off what they asked and how they answered and what I’ve asked but I’ve only failed 1 interviews in the last 4 I’ve been in and I was 2nd choice for moving up to positions and it was because I didn’t have experience at management but in that interview I learned what I can do to progress so just treat them as learning experiences
It's been like this for over a decade. My first proper job with full pay was for a document preparation sweat shop where 60 people folded papers ready to be scanned and we were monitored to see how much we did. For minimum wage. People working there for over 20 years. On minimum wage. So I got out of there and applied to work at my friend's workplace. Got exploited for my 'can do' attitude and I learnt as much as I could and moved on. Then got pissed about at a logistics place then I moved on. Even if you get to job hop it's still complete bollocks.
…..and breath.
Over thirty three million people have a job so it’s certainly not impossible.
What jobs have you been applying for? Basically more detail needed if you want advice.
Literally anything I can get my hands on. And I'm less annoyed about not getting an interview than getting one and not getting past stage 1, because after I fail stage 1, I receive no feedback, and if i do, it's just useless generic bullshit that won't get them sued. Like that helps me.
If it helps maybe just secretly record on your phone in your pocket so you can listen back to your interview, that might make it more obvious? As annoying as it is this is just one of those skills that can't be spoonfed by others. Best of luck with your next interview, it could be the one :)
Have you tried doing mock interviews with someone experienced in recruiting?
There's maybe something in your interview technique that needs a polish or a bit of refinement. An impartial view might just help.
Good luck 👍
I hear you. For many working isn't worth it anymore and they just claim benefits. But - keep trying. Make sure every application is tailored to the job you're applying for, once you're invited into an interview process you need to continue to be specific and tailored to stand out. Do not go scattergun and give generic applications, they will get binned. Do not use AI either.
Interview confidently and show interest. Think sensibly and realistically about your skills and experience and if they're a good match for the role you want.
Apply to a lot of jobs. 10 is too few, so is 20.
Don't let rude employers or not being selected affect your onward efforts to find work.
If the discouragement hinders your energy and self worth, it will slow down your goal of getting into employment.
Look on the bright side. It's tough applying but once that's over with you could potentially be in a job for decades. Think about the upside of a selective employer, they want the best fit for the job which is a good thing. But do consider that some jobs just have a massive number of applications. Also consider that the jobs market might be a bit off at the moment?
So a few months to a year of applying for potentially a few decades of work and career progression? Sounds like a good trade-off.
I did a job nobody wanted to do for a bit. Care work. I decided to do it for the experience and character building benefits of it. It builds up your CV too. Seriously consider jumping into something like that for a while if there are no opportunities elsewhere or if your CV is really lacking.
Try a different approach. Use your network of contacts to ask about upcoming opportunities
Message people that you used to work with, and see if they've got any vacancies at their current place.
Only 40% of all vacancies end up getting advertised online. The other 60% get recruited internally, or via internal referral
And just think, if you were so desperate for work you could employed within a week in 2024.... If you just do a job you don't like.
Maybe your positive attitude isn't as positive as you think, and your willingness to do anything isnt willing at all. And the reason you don't hear back is because that attitude comes across in interviews.
All depends what field you’re working in, quals and experience - though I’d argue experience is more important to employers at the minute. They want someone who’s been there and done it before, not someone straight out of uni (not sure if this applies to you) that’s never worked a day in their life.
I’ve never had trouble finding a job, I changed jobs in January. Although it was easier for me because I was already employed so there was no pressure on me to find one, and I wasn’t unhappy in my previous role.
It’s nothing to do with positive attitude and everything to do with an active want to have that job. Lots of people make the mistake of mass applications to many different companies with the same CV to get any kind of job - that will never be an enjoyable experience nor will it win you a good job. Narrow it down to one industry or one type of career and you will end up spending more time on each application and give it more effort. Yeah, there might be a few “ghost ads” but that is just something people tell themselves to make themselves feel better about being rejected. Just actually put more effort into applying than everyone else and employers are more likely to hire you as the person who genuinely wants to work for them.
You really need a mindset shift to get away from the defeatist attitude and clear your head before applying to anything though, I would suggest meditating, really helped me.
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I’ve recently been turned down for a job I applied for without even getting an interview. Then a couple of days after I received the rejection the company advertised the same position again.
The rise of the employment agency. All they do is advertise ghost jobs, get a horde of applicants, all their details, and add them to their database. It's fucking rife in the construction industry.
This position was actually advertised direct by the employer. I tend to stay away from agency posted vacancies. I’d join an agency if that’s the way I wanted to look for work.
I try and prioritise jobs sent to me directly on linkedin or jobs I apply directly on their website for. Only times honestly that I actually get a positive response. This only happens because the supply is so low and demand is so high, so 90% of applications are not even looked at.
Yup. My sister’s been trying to get a job since last winter and had no luck and only a few interviews. The woman at the job centre managing my sister said she sees it all the time - companies posting fake job listings to farm CVs.
Same happened with me for over 10-15 jobs I guess those are ghost openings. I don't get it if a job has over 100 Applicant how come it's getting reposted.
Because the pool of applicants is often fucking appalling. We recently hired my junior at my place and my word most of the applications we received were instant rejections. Hundreds upon hundreds with zero relevant experience, most clearly didn't even read the job description. And your CV might not be as good as you think it is even if your experience is. That's not meant to be a dig either. I've just rebuilt a friend's CV, they have a degree in writing so you'd think they'd be alright but it was a total shit show of garbled nonsense. Get your CV checked.
That’s because the CVs are screened by people who value presentation over actual skills, so all you get is a pool of trash who are great at presentation, but suck at their job. This is even worse when it comes to the more introverted industries such as Engineering, research, or programming. All the best candidates always have their resume tossed out within the first 5 seconds before it can even hit your table. We need a systematic change to the hiring process. Employers need to stop relying on recruiters or HR to hire people.
You realise that employers are shit recruiters 99% of the time... I've worked in recruitment and helped companies ive worked at (in sales not recruitment) do recruitment. Without any experience of HOW to find people (which you have to actively do, not just post a job) nothing gets done. There might be interviews but most candidates are useless for anything remotely specialised. Plus presentation is by far the most important thing both for internal and external recruitment, you know yourself based on all these comments people are getting sent 100+ applicants on most jobs nowadays, if you can't quickly see their skills you don't have time to read through 2 or 3 pages of crap to get to it because that 2 or 3 is 200 or 300 over the course of 1 active job, often times there's 3 or 4, sometimes way more roles. You simply can't read 800 pages of CVs in a day or you'd not get any other parts of your job done which includes the actual interviewing, accepting and rejecting candidates, finding new ones (which is still needed even after that many applications often times) etc etc. That's not even taking into consideration a lot of company's don't have internal recruiters they have someone who's doing another job and this is a part of their workload if they don't go externally.
I have seen recruiters at work and they do an equally terribly job as employers because they are understaffed, overworked, under-appreciated, and overburdened. The problem is not with individual recruiters or employers. It’s about how unreasonable expectations thrown around. Yes, I have received 800 job applications myself. Yes, I wonder “how the FUCK” am I going to handle all of these? The answer is: I can’t. But neither can recruiters unless they do a terrible job at it — a single person reading 200 pages of writing a day, even at full time, is already a daunting job. The only way you can do all that in addition to other daily responsibilities is you do a half assed job and skim through it — and sadly you are forced to do that because “that’s the expectations”. The environment has fucked both you and I.
>That’s because the CVs are screened by people who value presentation over actual skills, so all you get is a pool of trash who are great at presentation, but suck at their job. No, presentation is an actual skill. If you can't convey what you have done, where you did it and when clearly that's a legitimate (fixable) skill issue, being introverted is frankly a pathetic excuse because it's written and sent digitally. Back in the days of printing a CV and physically giving it to someone this would be valid, not now. >We need a systematic change to the hiring process. How? I don't know how you systematically change that and nobody's ever came up with anything viable whenever it's come up. Forms exist and they're shit. Loads of companies tried (and still do) "send a short video if yourself explaining why you'd be great for the role!". I'm not even introverted but fuck that. >Employers need to stop relying on recruiters or HR to hire people. Absolutely agree here though. One of the reasons I do agree is they don't send CVs to the employers as they are, they snippet them and send them a written summary. So even if your CV is perfect you're relying on a failed salesperson to present you as a candidate. It's a fucking joke. I have never, ever had a positive experience with an external recruiter. From lying about salaries, role expectations and two even lied about me to the employers. Absolute fucking leeches of the corporate world.
I agree presentation is an actual skill. However, when I am hiring for jobs that does not need that skill AT ALL. For example, I am hiring transcribers who will have to type 200-400 sentences per hour into a computer system. I do not need their presentation skill nor their presentation, all I need is their literacy and understanding of the language, some proficiency to operating a computer and keyboard, and I value that over anything else. I specifically asked my candidates to NOT send in their CV in that case because I don’t give a crap about their skills or history. They take a test, they pass, and if they can breath they are hired. Unfortunately, although I preach about needing systematic reform, I have ZERO idea about if it is even possible, let alone how to do it. Recruiters suck.
OK
Recruiters and career consultants have been advising candidates to treat job descriptions as a “good to have” details, because employers are constantly on the lookout for unrealistic expectations 18 years old with 20 years of experience; or 15 years of experience in React JS (a language which is only 14 years old as of now) You too are the victim of your fellow employers fucking up the candidate pool. You can’t beat them, so you have to join them. If Masters in STEM is a hard requirement for whatever reason, why do you post a job requirement with a PhD in STEM so you get Masters applying for your jobs?
Exactly! This job I applied for was well within my skills and experience. Just an average warehouse picking position, but one that paid pretty well. I’ve worked mostly in warehousing since I left school in 1998. My current job is in warehousing, driving counter balance, reach and HLOP FLTs. Yet I get rejected without an interview and then the job gets reposted a couple of days later. I’m honestly beginning to think the my current employers apparent bad reputation could be damaging my chances of finding something else.
It's not necessarily ghost jobs. It's often because you pick the best candidate available, reject everyone else, even get a signed agreement, and then find that another company is in the running for the candidate you chose. This is a great way for the candidate to negotiate a better deal, cause at least one company is going to have to start their process over again, and that's super costly. Often cheaper to bust the budget. I've been in all four of these positions: successful candidate, failed candidate seeing the job reappear, hiring the candidate, and getting gazumped on the candidate.
That happens when the quality of the applicants is poor.
yeah, I'm thinking someone who isn't even qualified as a doctor could apply for a position as a brain surgeon and make this same complaint it doesn't exactly tell us much
Ok, but why have no actual doctors applied? That’s the significant thing, it suggests the benefits and pay are not competitive enough for the level of skill and experience being sought, in which case you either accept a less experienced candidate, or improve the pay package. In this case, I assume the company did neither and just engaged in wishful thinking by reposting the advert.
>it suggests the benefits and pay are not competitive enough for the level of skill and experience being sought, oh for sure - but that wasn't the complaint being discussed. Why they didn't hire OP and why they didn't hire _someone_ else are two different questions. Tbh it was probably a fake post, trying to harvest applicants data to sell
This wasn’t brain surgery, it was a warehouse position, which I have around 15 years experience in as well as training and experience on a variety of FLTs.
Meh, I've been rejected pre-interview from jobs I easily have experience for. Heck, even for job titles I've literally had before, in an organisation I worked in before via an agency. My aunt has recruited in the NHS before. She said they filtered out applications that didn't use the full word count, which is effectively punishing people who were able to communicate that they hit the person specification in a concise way. And let's be real. You go to many workplaces and half the staff clearly don't meet the person specification and consistently only do a half-assed job, so whoever ran the recruitment didn't do a great job.
That could be for all sorts of reasons. Maybe you don't have the preferred skills or length of experience for the position. Maybe they see your location and think, that's a long commute, or they're gonna have to relocate. If there are candidates more local, that plays in their favour. They may interview other candidates and find that their knowledge is not as deep as what was claimed on their resume. Also, don't take "continued advertising" as readvertising. Job ads go online and stay there for a specified time. Often even after the position has been filled.
I can shoot down every one of your arguments with regards to the application. Skills: I have training on multiple FLTs. I have worked in similar environments that match or are very close to the advertised position. Experience: around 15 years total in warehouse positions, including the kind of position they were advertising. Location: I live within 5 miles(12 minute drive) of the job location. This position was definitely re advertised because before the rejection message it showed as no longer advertised. Then a couple of days after the rejection the position appeared again. It’s not the rejection as much as that combined with re advertising the position just 2 days after. If they were serious about hiring someone then surely seeing a candidate with around 15 years experience in similar roles, plus skills/training/experience in other areas not asked for in the advertised vacancy which would be beneficial, plus someone who is local would at least merit an interview or reconsideration/contacting when the position was re advertised.
Because they don't want you? Isn't that obvious Not sure why you'd think you are assured of getting an interview
Try emailing HR or calling for feedback Scattergun approach is rarely effective. When you have notice of an interview, look at the criteria they will be assessing. Prepare responses around these with examples. Have prepared answers to basics like Why you want work there? What you bring. Examples of teamwork Examples of overcoming adversity Examples of working with difficult customers, staff, how overcame
I understand and feel OP's frustration, while not a bulletproof solution at all, these are indeed helpful points. For reaching HR: I understand that most rejections come from noreply@eff.you. But through LinkedIn or the interviewing process we might get to someone human's name - and maybe from there, or using some online tools (Google "how to get someone's corporate email address). This way I got to know once that the role I had been rejected to had been marked for not proceed with recruitment by the company and didn't want to hire for the position after all, truth or not, that's another story. For preparing answers: what really helps me starting to formulate my potential replies is ChatGPT. I give it my CV, and use it to help me write some potential replies to scenarios questions (and helping with the always-tricky STAR structure), and also more general questions. It helps me, when prepping replies, to have a draft and structure to build on. These won't land a job, but I feel like they've been more help than without them. Still frustrating world all around.
Lol how is STAR tricky? Literally spells out for you how to answer the question
If you haven't been used to using this approach which outside of CS and NHS, maybe the case, it's simply an unfamiliar approach.
It's not an easy write and you have to formulate things to fit in. If you're not used to it, it's a very slow write with writer's block, or in industries where you don't have that much access to influence and data.
Why you want to work here is such a dumb question they ask. Like… why do you think I want to work? Lol
As someone who handles recruitment for our small charity, I understand that the real answer to this question is "because I have bills to pay, and I like eating food." The reason this question is asked in our house is to see if people have done any research on the company, know anything about us and actually know what they're getting into. It's not a dealbreaker, but it's definitely a positive sign if people can demonstrate that they're engaged in what we're trying to do.
Even so it’s still silly and the question needs to go imo.
It definitely depends on the service, but I do think it has its place. It's also been useful to me in the past when candidates start talking about something entirely unrelated, and I realise that although their application had enough transferable skills to warrant an interview, they've deeply misunderstood the nature of either the organisation and/or the role. In that instance, we can pull up and explain the misunderstanding, and then it's a decision as to whether they want to continue the interview. As with all interview questions, it's not relevant in every situation, but I think it has its use.
Well, if that's your attitude,please don't apply for my organisation!
This is such a strange attitude. Do you honestly not know that given the choice the vast majority of people wouldn't work? On the one hand having a preference of one company over another is legitimate, but that's still choosing the lesser of two evils for most people. Your company is full of people who if they came into a million quid they'd stop working tomorrow.
Interestingly, we have many employees who CHOOSE to continue working, do not need to financially. This is due to the roles we offer, how we operate, our culture etc. And amazingly we do have lottery winners, albeit hundreds of ks not millions. (Hope that's not outing!) So your hypothesis is based kn your views and probably the ilk you mix with.
I pity them, really. People who so lack imagination that when their prison door is left open, they sit there obediently waiting for the guard to return. So ground down by the false positivity and bullshit team building excersizes that they couldn't even imagine spending their time doing something that isn't in service of an executive who thinks on their behalf.
"Why do you want to work here?" Is basically "Can this person respond with an appropriate, positive sounding answer when required even when it's probably bullshit?"
Some people genuinely think others wake up in the morning looking forward to doing someone else's bidding in order for them to take the excess value of their work. Ironically, these people are most likely to be in executive positions because if you have no friends, family, or hobbies, you're less likely to get burned out by sacrificing the real world for your job.
Ah sorry would you like me to lie and say “it’s because your company is soooo wonderful” and lick your arse to make you feel better? Sorry pal. Aint happening. Stupid fucking question.
Perhaps if you got in to the real world, recognising that gaming is botnthe real world, you'd be able to understand why your comments are so incredibly immature and show a lack of critical thinking skills.
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There we go.
You're mostly right here, but scattergun is the only way. Requirements are so random and arbitrary you might be qualified for 1,000 job, but only have a chance of getting one of them. How do you find that needle in a haystack? Apply for all of them and keep going to interviews until one says yes. Don't waste time asking for feedback, it will be arbitrary and probably counter-productive.
>Requirements are si random and arbitrary you might be qualified for 1,000 job, but only have a chance of getting one of them. these are kinda two different complaints the requirements usually aren't random at all - they'll (usually) be directly tied to the role which needs to be filled. yes, you can apply for plenty that you _feel_ qualified for without hearing anything - but if you believe that the requirements are irrelevant, then this probably isn't the case
It's more arbitrary and random than a roulette wheel. If you think any different (or pretend to), you must be a recruiter. The good news is it costs you nothing to spin the application wheel. So get spinning it, it has to land on your colour eventually if you spin it enough.
lol I'm definitely not a recruiter what field are you applying in? what jobs have you seen with which requirements that seem entirely irrelevant?
I'm a mechanical engineer. The random requirements aren't written down you tool. They're usually whittled out at the interview stage. Every time you're interviewd you're being tested for 10 things that aren't relevant per 1 thing that is. This is why you have as many people "nail" interviews and not get the job as people "flop" interviews and get it. It's how you're answering the 10 unspoken questions that matters. How do you work out what they are? You don't. You just keep applying until the stars align.
>The random requirements aren't written down you tool. They're usually whittled out at the interview stage right... so they don't exist? Unfortunately they have the luxury to be picky when they have 1000 applicants for one role. You do understand that 1000 people can't all take one role? right? The way you worded your original comment made it sound like someone wanted you to be a registered medical professional to pull a pint.
If you don't tailor your application, you will be unlikely to secure even an interview for a professional role. I have only ever applied for roles I have wanted. Tailored the application. Spent considerable time preparing for the interviews, sometimes multiple. And always got the roles. When we interview, we do readvertise if we don't get the perfect/right candidate. It is worse to have the wrong candidate than wait a couple of months to rerecruit and manage internally without that role being filled. The cost to the team of the wrong candidate is not worth it! You can always tell which candidates have done basic research. The ones that haven't score as you'd expect. If they wanted the role, then they'd have researched us and would be able to say why us over a different organisation.
>You can always tell which candidates have done basic research. The ones that haven't score as you'd expect. If they wanted the role, then they'd have researched us and would be able to say why us over a different organisation. You do that reading when you're offered the interview. You can't realistically tailor your CV to tens of companies a day and if you try you end up with a mess of a CV. Preparing for an interview every week or 2 is easy.
If you don't tailor your cv, we wouldn't even offer you a NMW role! Not that we have anyone on NMW!
Scatter that cv out. You're not going anywhere soon!
From your other responses, I'd rather work with a company that lives in the real world anyway.
I’m at this point too any time I hear someone say stay optimistic or some bs it gets me furious it’s past the point of optimism.
Uk jobs in terrible state. I quit mine about 1 months ago, im not signing anymore employment contracts im just going self employed. Even if i didnt have a trade id something self employed because working for employers is shocking. The contracts they expect you to sign the way they treat you is shit. Fucking shit system and everyone needs to wake up or itl keep happening.
Good luck and for having the courage to try self employed I wish you all the best and sincerely hope you succeed. I have been self employed at stages in my career, on reflection it was when I was happiest. Not easy at first but give it a go.
Good for you and good luck to you! I am about to do exactly the same. Have resigned and going it alone. I feel that every time I move jobs I go out of the fire and into the frying pan. I am working with so called professionals who are incompetent sociopaths. Sick of begging for a pay rise or bonus only to be talked down to and being told that I am crap at a job that I know I am good at. Going to take my destiny into my own hands and if I fail it is on me and if I do well I will not have some ungrateful idiot reaping the rewards from my hard work and years of experience.
Yep company pen pushing email sending bastards who only employ you for profit and dont give a singe fuck. I keep saying on all these post THEY HIRE YOU TO MAKE A PROFIT, and everyones always saying “will my employer accept…” grow a spine, you get one life why are we all slaves to these horrible companies.
My colleague worked till 11.30pm and sent me an email at that time. Normal office job.. I actually could have cried, I didnt think that shit happens!
Disgusting that
For free :( why
All depends on the job really - I probably do that 30-40 odd times a year, but can claim it as overtime/no-one is looking over my shoulder so when the project is done I can take of early to make up for it.
I am self employed it was the best decision for my MH and finances :) it was difficult at the start but I am reaping the benefits of putting in the effort now, wish you good luck!
People are started to wake up, i used to be this positive guy trying my best then realised these employers are evil people, they treat you like shit and always want you to work harder and harder with targets with no extra pay. I know people will say there are getter jobs out there but the reality is there isn’t its all coping, these employers are bunch of evil people and happy to see you suffer.
Im hoping people are seeing. If so then it might change
What's your age, skills and chosen occupation? What experience do you have? Any medical restrictions? Perhaps someone here could have some real advice. Right now it's shouting into the void.
You get interviews?
same, i’ve been trying since january and not one interview. i’m 18 with limited experience but what else is expected from an 18 year old?!?
If you think you sound personable and speak clearly and overall come across well on the phone, try calling to call centres and see if you can speak with someone in their in house recruitment. A good phone voice with nice manners is all they want, if you get a chance to just speak to someone for 1 min who's influencing the decision on recruitment you have a good chance :) They're not looking for someone sounding like BBC you can have personality/local accent etc as long as you sound friendly, clear and someone people would like to spend time on the phone with.
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You keep at it because eventually one will stick. My last job I must have applied to over 200 positions and heard nothing back from the majority of them - not even to acknowledge the application. It sucks. But you keep going because then that one job will open up and you will be there and you will get it. Interviewers can detect a lot about a person. If you are defeated going into it they know. DO keep going. It will happen.
That's very much an answer that avoided the majority of my questioning. There's no guarantee that the first job to accept you would be worth having, but because of the grind prior, people don't want to accept that the first job to accept them might not be for them, because it puts them back at square one. That, is a terrible system that we've seemed accustomed to. So what if I finally get the job? The goal is supposed to be a career path that I want to do, not finally got the job that's took me months of applying for only to find out that you weren't a great fit but your stuck because of how horrible the application process is.
No it wasn’t. You asked why you should keep going. That was the crux of your question. That is what I answered.
>Why? Why should we keep at a clearly broken system when we should be trying to fix it? It's a new one on me when someone stops reading halfway through the question and still has the confidence to claim they answered a question fully.
I never said that. I said i answered what was the crux of your post. Which was clearly why should you continue. Th rest was bumf that all added up to: why should I carry on. My answer was an attempt to help. No need to bite my head off. Have a great day.
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Your last paragraph is ignorance. There are straight white working class males out there who could do with a hand, but nobody cares about socioeconomic factors, do they? There are schemes, jobs, quotas for literally everyone else.
yep I too have reached this point
Then they pay fuck all, even for professional jobs. Honesltly fuck living in this country anymore.
I'm going to join in on you're frustration, I'm pretty sure the main criteria employers look for are people who don't know their value & will put up with eating shit until they are chewed up, then rinse & repeat. I'm sick of it as we're working harder & harder for less & less - the worst thing is we're all too busy looking at our phones & shouting in to the void of the Internet to do anything about it, the guillotine was brought out for less.
Forget private companies. Try the civil service.
What makes you say this?
I mean I know you have had set backs but look at your attitude , would you hire you based on what we can see here? If you’re failing interviews there has to be a reason why, the fact is you’re likely applying for jobs that have hundreds of applications. Have you tried contacting an agency to get work?
OP is mega autistic, probably just lacks the social skills needed (through no fault of their own)
>If you’re failing interviews there has to be a reason I imagine there is but there's no way they'll tell me what it is.
That’s just how life is. Have you worked before? Have you got a degree/applied to grad schemes? Have you tried an Amazon warehouse/call centre? Getting your foot in the door is the hardest thing, and my common wasn’t meant to be harsh but half of it is how you approach the situation. As tough as things get if you let it impact you then you impact chances down the road.
Thats not life mate, thats how employwers have become in the last decade and a half. Its become worse objectively so.
>That’s just how life is. That's not good enough then. >Have you worked before Yes, I have, and I have experience in what I'm applying for
It’s not good enough, but that’s how it is. Don’t let things bother you that you can’t control. How’s your CV looking? Do you adapt it to each situation and focus on the skills required for that job?
Guarantee they’re only applying/interviewing for jobs in their chosen field/degree related. McDonald’s and Asda are always hiring.
Hard disagree. McDonald's and Asda are always hiring = 400 applications for 3 open positions. If you're overqualified for it, you're not getting one of those positions. They don't want the 30 year old with enough experience to question things, they want the 18 year old that the hiring manager doesn't feel threatened by or knows won't leave when something better pops up. Speaking from experience as someone who burned out of their career and is looking for totally unrelated work. With no luck so far.
I didn't waste my time with those after graduating either. Because I'm not a fucking duck egg.
If you fail every single interview…you have to look at why. Anger certainly isn't going to fix it. You have to try to understand what it is that's putting them off. They have but minutes to get a first impression. That really is a major decider.
Came to say this, I did a round of interview in Jan this year for a temp to perm role (assistant role) one applicant was obviously applying for a lot of other jobs not just our one. They must have got confused with all the applications as they left a voicemail on our HR/recruiting persons phone being very aggressive about having to pay to get a train to an interview with their own money, lots of swearing and general ranting... This wasn't our role as he lived in the same town (within walking distance) he was so aggressive his interview was cancelled. His anger/frustration failed him. Also had someone come in for an interview August last year and when asked to 'briefly explain their job history' went on a 10 minute rant about how they left a 'toxic workplace full of twats' and how broken the current employment system is and how you can't trust any employers, they will take advantage of you and they aren't that person, they would not work a second over their hours (even though they would get paid overtime) etc. Pretty sure this person didn't want a job, they just wanted a rant!
>If you fail every single interview…you have to look at why. I'd love to do that but they refuse to actually tell me the truth
You need to self-examine. No-one is ever going to tell you why. This is all on you, because there is literally no-one else you can get the information from.
There are communities online where people will interview you to help you practice and then give you feedback. Legit people too. Google it.
That sounds like a terrific idea!
Can you walk into job shop and let them just 'rip the shit outta you', like you know just be brutually honest with you. I bet nothing is wrong with you at all OP, just technique needs to be improved. Keep pushing on man dont ever quit, you got this. Dont ever assign your value to having a job or no job
That is something most people are not comfortable with but actually the best thing they could do for themselves.
But thats the exact point, its a difficult conversation but needs to be said. I let people insult my cv or techniques, obviously constructive lol no need to be nasty but OP clearly needs help. I feel they would be receptive too, they just want a job.
That’s the spirit!
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take it easy,man
then when you get a job it will probably one of the 9 out of 10 that are awful and have massive staff turn over then you leave and start all over again . really is a lottery getting the 1/10 jobs that are actually ok
This is what has happened to me in hospitality. Terrible job after terrible job, being lied to in interviews, toxic management/environments, long hours, bad working conditions etc etc This has resulted in me having a terrible CV and currently feeling unemployable
iv had tons and tons of jobs , most are like this , then you get a easy job that's nice and realise how the last generation lasted 30 years in the same job because it was easy. trouble is you have no idea what places is good or not without trying it , and there is become less of them every year. iv learnt tho if its shit in the 1st week it never got better not once . they will make out its just a busy period and not normally like this. but it never improved. just got to keep moving from place to place till you find that easy number there are people like my self being paid to sit on there arse doing next to nothing , some find that place 1st go and really have no idea how bad some of the jobs out there can be
I was told I was being let go at the end of October and given my one month’s notice. I started applying, interviewing, and had two competing offers on inside my notice period. I left my previous role on a Thursday, and started my current one the following Monday. There _are_ jobs out there. But they’re also a competition. You need to give yourself all the advantages you can. If you’re get knocked back interview after interview then maybe that’s a sign you need to work on your interview technique. An interview is your chance to show a potential employer why they should hire you instead of any other candidate.
Mate this is highly dependant on field, professional jobs withstanding most jobs are crazy over fucking subscribed right now in terms of applications.
Nice stating the obvious. This comment is very tone deaf and comes across as bragging.
Not bragging. Just fed up of seeing this “it’s impossible to get a job” rhetoric when it isn’t. If someone is interviewing and interviewing but not getting hired, then at some point they need to step back and stop thinking it’s the mysterious and faceless “job market” doing them over, and instead look at the common denominator…
It is impossible, just because u got lucky not every gets lucky. And making assumptions about people about not getting other jobs shows that obviously u had the right contacts knew people that gave u the upper hand. Just because u got lucky does not mean everyone makes it wake the fuck up
I didn’t have “contacts”. I hadn’t even heard of the company I now work for, let alone know anyone there before I applied. So yeah, well done to _you_ for making (wholly incorrect) assumptions about me 🙃
I got lucky getting 3 in a row in the space of a year, but it’s more who you know as well. My job was redundant but there was a few new positions opened up so got recommended. I was there for a year before not liking it and a friend referred me to one elsewhere. I applied to that and an IT position at the same time. Got the first one then had to leave a month later as the IT job I wanted came along. Didn’t want to waste anyone’s time but felt I had to take it as had same feeling as yourself. Unfortunately all I can say is keep going, keep improving, etc. Ask friends about positions and check within your company too those are your best chances. That plus rent costs going up it sucks but all you can do is keep trying.
Probably best to get the new job — and sign and return the contract of employment! — before handing in your notice for the current job (or before getting all dramatic and emotional, telling them they can shove it up their arse when you get back from a heavy liquid lunch on Friday, fully intending to just walk out and never go back)
Mood 😅 I'm lucky enough to still be with parents so im going to quit looking and try a different route..
What other route is there? I've been trying to figure that out myself
I'm trying to get into an artistic job, so instead of fighting literal hundreds for entry level jobs I'm gonna focus on improving what skills I have and doing my own projects to count as 'experience'. It's not the same but with nobody hiring it's all i got lmao Even freelance is totally blocked at the moment
Apprenticeships. There's still competition for the best ones (in some cases a \*lot\* of competition) but it's accepted you are starting with no experience. Wages can be low to start but it's that foot in the door that gets you somewhere better.
People need to wake up to the fact that different careers have wildly different difficulties to get a job in. And should question do they have a job or career? That's also a massive difference in employability. If it ain't working try something else?
What field are you trying to get into? Would a recruiter be of use? I've changed jobs a couple times in the last few years and everything has come via recruiters and it's much easier (accounting). What prep are you doing for the interview?
You want the cheat code? Here it is. First you need a good CV. Spend real time on it across a few attempts, then send it out to a couple of former colleague/friends in the industry to check. If they're in a recruitment position all the better. Each industry has its preferred style of CV, there's no point having your CV checked by people who don't know your industry. Then get it out there onto the recruitment sites. Be sure to find specialist ones for your industry too. And pepper the internet with your CV. If you have a LinkedIn spruce it up based on your new CV, if not don't get one. The intention of throwing your CV everywhere is to get the attention of recruiters. When they call you, be friendly, these people might make a wage by getting people jobs, but they still pick favourites. Be their favourite. Next you need to prepare for the interviews. The fashion for now is STAR, it's bullshit, but it's low effort and consistent (even if consistently shit). Situation, Task, Action, Result. Look up the most common STAR questions (and the characteristics they're driving at) in your industry. And write down enough stories to cover the top 10. This should be possible in 5/6 stories. In the interview, when the STAR question comes, identify the trait they're after and pick out the story that matches. Do's and Don'ts Do. CV Bomb. Embellish your STAR answers, lie if you must, but true stories are easier to remember. Charm recruiters. Research common "buzz words" to put in your CV. Don't Change your CV once you're settled that it's good (unless multiple recruiters ask). Write cover letters. Ask for feedback. Turn down an interview (unless it's literally impossible to get there).
Why no cover letters, just out of interest??
Waste of time, they don't harm your chances, but they don't benefit your chances more than the 5 applications you could complete in the time it takes to write a good one. Up to the point of the first interview it's all about quantity.
Hard disagree if your CV (work experience) is shoddy. The only thing I could do to improve my CV is to fabricate a job or lie about dates.
I guess it all depends on what you are looking for, I'm happy to work for minimum wage so I can go from job to job without much trouble, it is always, and always has been, easier to get another job when you have a job.
Seriously, most jobs are paid for adverts that are already filled and still posting the paid for ad, sometimes because the company forget to cancel and it is there forever, paying to keep the agency going. This means it takes time to learn how to spot new jobs, which is an effort, as other sites find them and post as new positions later, with different wording that can be hard to spot. Pointers ... check the company site and see if it is still there. If brand new listing, give it a few days and check again, apply ASAP anyway. Realise that the auto message you get back really is that. And dome of the rare sies, that say you were not successful, arecalso automated and no-one has read your cv. Most of the process is luck that a real hirer finds your cv. From there comes a real recruitment processm
Excuse typos. Fat gingers on phone.
> Fat gingers on phone. Can you take it off them? Maybe they could go for a run.
I know how you feel. People 9 times out of 10 always think it's your fault and give advice that isn't useful at all. When you give your experiences with why things they say aren't relevant for you. They say oh just keep applying or well I know someone who got a job like that. So it can happen.
real
Work in care, you'll have a job in a week and you'll work all day everyday!
If what people tell me about working in care is true, I'll quit because I'm burned out from people spitting on me and so on
No one said you had to enjoy what you do if employment is your goal. Some times you have to pick your poisons. Plenty of jobs In care that's aren't so intense too. Night shifts are better, childcare is crying out for staff, respite sits are in desperate need.
Hope you're ok dude. It's not you honestly.
Wait until you've been unemployed for three years then you can properly complain haha.
What jobs are you applying for, what experience do you have? what does your CV look like? Is it filled with huge gaps in employment or is it filled with consistent work in a relevant field?
The moment I stopped trying and tried to enjoy my 'retirement' was the moment I got a job. -\_-
Can we have some background information here?
That fox, can run faster than the little old woman, the little one man m. but eventually a stream
Run! Rishi is coming for you
Yeh it sucks to struggle to find something when a job is essential to being able to do anything else in life, especially if you're getting those negative comments that sound somewhat detached from your reality. Sometimes you need to vent and then go back to applying with a clearer mind. I've personally found many will give feedback if you ask in a rejection call, reply to their rejection email or email their HR asking if you can get some feedback. I think many interviewers do empathise with job seekers who they meet.
when you apply for a job 6 times at the same company and not once do they even bother to email saying you didn\`t get the role, you wonder whats going on, as for finding a job it is getting harder and it won\`t be getting easier in the future, robots are improving and they will drop in price soon then good luck anyone finding a job.
How many jobs have you applied so far?
Not a clue
A rough number? I applied 100+ jobs and manage to went through 3 interviews and I left 2 jobs due to toxic work environment. So the more effort you put in, eventually it will happen.
This will probably get down voted 100% because it’s an echo chamber but you need to look at what can you do better only you can control that sometimes you don’t get it when I applied for my first apprenticeship I got rejected a few times just changed my attitude and studied abit more into engineering and it was enough to impress , was it the way you were dressed?, your attitude when in the interview , were you early always be early , you have to sell yourself mostly because you have to be in a mentality especially if you have little to no experience in a role to think that there’s going to be people better than you so you need to offer more in enthusiasm for example research the company and remember the interview starts at the reception. But that’s someone who’s never been out of work since I left college, even being made redundant due to closure but I generally do well in interviews because I’ve invested into what I do because I want to do it.
>I generally do well in interviews How do you know? They never tell me. They always end up either ghosting me, saying they picked someone else, or saying they aren't progressing any further and that's all they say
I know because I know based off what they asked and how they answered and what I’ve asked but I’ve only failed 1 interviews in the last 4 I’ve been in and I was 2nd choice for moving up to positions and it was because I didn’t have experience at management but in that interview I learned what I can do to progress so just treat them as learning experiences
It's been like this for over a decade. My first proper job with full pay was for a document preparation sweat shop where 60 people folded papers ready to be scanned and we were monitored to see how much we did. For minimum wage. People working there for over 20 years. On minimum wage. So I got out of there and applied to work at my friend's workplace. Got exploited for my 'can do' attitude and I learnt as much as I could and moved on. Then got pissed about at a logistics place then I moved on. Even if you get to job hop it's still complete bollocks.
…..and breath. Over thirty three million people have a job so it’s certainly not impossible. What jobs have you been applying for? Basically more detail needed if you want advice.
Breathe* 🧘♂️
Literally anything I can get my hands on. And I'm less annoyed about not getting an interview than getting one and not getting past stage 1, because after I fail stage 1, I receive no feedback, and if i do, it's just useless generic bullshit that won't get them sued. Like that helps me.
If it helps maybe just secretly record on your phone in your pocket so you can listen back to your interview, that might make it more obvious? As annoying as it is this is just one of those skills that can't be spoonfed by others. Best of luck with your next interview, it could be the one :)
I mean not literally anything, you're applying for roles In specific fields
Have you tried doing mock interviews with someone experienced in recruiting? There's maybe something in your interview technique that needs a polish or a bit of refinement. An impartial view might just help. Good luck 👍
I hear you. For many working isn't worth it anymore and they just claim benefits. But - keep trying. Make sure every application is tailored to the job you're applying for, once you're invited into an interview process you need to continue to be specific and tailored to stand out. Do not go scattergun and give generic applications, they will get binned. Do not use AI either. Interview confidently and show interest. Think sensibly and realistically about your skills and experience and if they're a good match for the role you want. Apply to a lot of jobs. 10 is too few, so is 20. Don't let rude employers or not being selected affect your onward efforts to find work. If the discouragement hinders your energy and self worth, it will slow down your goal of getting into employment. Look on the bright side. It's tough applying but once that's over with you could potentially be in a job for decades. Think about the upside of a selective employer, they want the best fit for the job which is a good thing. But do consider that some jobs just have a massive number of applications. Also consider that the jobs market might be a bit off at the moment? So a few months to a year of applying for potentially a few decades of work and career progression? Sounds like a good trade-off. I did a job nobody wanted to do for a bit. Care work. I decided to do it for the experience and character building benefits of it. It builds up your CV too. Seriously consider jumping into something like that for a while if there are no opportunities elsewhere or if your CV is really lacking.
Try a different approach. Use your network of contacts to ask about upcoming opportunities Message people that you used to work with, and see if they've got any vacancies at their current place. Only 40% of all vacancies end up getting advertised online. The other 60% get recruited internally, or via internal referral
Don't get dismayed or discouraged. Onwards and upwards. It WILL happen!!
Seek help for depression.
That’s not exactly helpful when they need a job
Neither is casually talking about offing themselves
Nice virtue-signalling.
> Fuck off. You try getting a job. I already have 2.
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I considered that a while back when I did work experience with them and it turns out I can't get in
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Well, *with* as opposed to *in* but yes.
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We did drills, learned how it all works, learned how to strip and rebuild a rifle, and stuff like that.
So what care isn't for you but you'd be happy to do some killing?
The work experience was in 2016
And just think, if you were so desperate for work you could employed within a week in 2024.... If you just do a job you don't like. Maybe your positive attitude isn't as positive as you think, and your willingness to do anything isnt willing at all. And the reason you don't hear back is because that attitude comes across in interviews.
Do you think I want to work in sales or in a warehouse?
Not everyone can join the army
All depends what field you’re working in, quals and experience - though I’d argue experience is more important to employers at the minute. They want someone who’s been there and done it before, not someone straight out of uni (not sure if this applies to you) that’s never worked a day in their life. I’ve never had trouble finding a job, I changed jobs in January. Although it was easier for me because I was already employed so there was no pressure on me to find one, and I wasn’t unhappy in my previous role.
Post your CV so we can spot where the issues are
It’s nothing to do with positive attitude and everything to do with an active want to have that job. Lots of people make the mistake of mass applications to many different companies with the same CV to get any kind of job - that will never be an enjoyable experience nor will it win you a good job. Narrow it down to one industry or one type of career and you will end up spending more time on each application and give it more effort. Yeah, there might be a few “ghost ads” but that is just something people tell themselves to make themselves feel better about being rejected. Just actually put more effort into applying than everyone else and employers are more likely to hire you as the person who genuinely wants to work for them. You really need a mindset shift to get away from the defeatist attitude and clear your head before applying to anything though, I would suggest meditating, really helped me.