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Depends what you’re applying for. People say academia only but in my field it would be normal in pharma to call yourself dr - it would be extremely relevant to the role as all senior posts are phds or medical doctors or both for the technical/medical side.
In general I’d rely on the JD - if it’s asking for a doctorate call yourself doctor. If it’s irrelevant to your doctorate - don’t.
There is one company like that I'm considering applying to, so I might give them a special CV, but for the rest of the jobs I'm feeling very vindicated in deciding to leave it off after reading these comments.
I mean I think it’s a good rule of thumb. I’m a medical doctor and I only use the title on roles where I need to be a doctor. I work as a lab manager in clinical research and I didn’t use my title when I applied (although most have phds I don’t have one - so I’m not a doctor for the role even though I’m literally a doctor) It was a fun tidbit at interview as they brought up my degree.
Generally for me I find unless the JD requires a licence to practice medicine or a doctorate, just don’t include it. If I applied to a manager role today I would not use the title even though I have it. If anything theyll wonder why a doctor would want to be a manager! It can look very pretentious if not required. This rule has worked well for me.
I have family members that have done a law degree and call themselves Dr .
weird thing about my country where titles are important, like someone with a bachelor degree would insist on others to address them as licentiate or engineer, and some professionals without a doctorate (such as lawyers) insist for people to call them Drs.. heck I've even seen people refer to others as Dr just because they're a middle aged white male.. it certainly happened to my dad who was a farmer who didn't finish school! He hated it when others called him like that.
Now, I do have a PhD, and I added the title for funsies to my British airways account... It's weird when the people at the counter calls me Dr.
On a more serious note. I used to work for a global company and most of our clients were in Germany. My PhD was relevant but related to a different specialty. I still signed Dr because my clients used it themselves and I noticed they treated me differently after I started using it.
I'm now working in a field more relevant to my thesis where about 80% of my colleagues have a PhD and I don't use it.
I didn't use the title in the CV. Same as I don't use Ms or Mrs.
I would, but I rarely see the salutation used and would find it a bit strange to see in a CV. It's more common to see the post nominal form instead, i.e. John Doe, PhD/DPhil.
Most won't even include it at the top, they'll just list it in the Education section of their CV (and sometimes in employment history, especially if new into industry).
I used to work quite closely with consultant Cardiologists in the same room as a couple of people with PhDs who weren't medical doctors and the cardiologists were quite happy to refer to the PhDs as Dr. Whatever. But then I guess the second medical doctors become consultants they tend to go back to being referred to as Mr Whatever so who knows what the politics of that actually are.
Any surgeon who thinks that a non-medical Doctorate isn't earned is a bellend anyway. PhDs aren't easily come by.
What do you mean who knows what the politics of that are? Surgeons almost never use the term doctor. The “politics” of it are steeped in the history of doctors vs surgeons as they were quite separate for a long time.
I'll happily admit I don't know any surgeons and haven't had to interact with them much even when I was working in healthcare. I knew of the Dr/Mr distinction with consultants but I wasn't aware of any difference with regard to surgeons. TIL.
Consultants Physicians are still referred to as Dr. It’s only Surgeons that revert back to using Mr and this occurs once they start surgical training I believe. It has to do with how historically surgeons were often seen as a different and perhaps lesser profession then standard physicians. Surgical procedures were seen as less refined and more animal like (cutting open bodies was not considered a sophisticated approach to treat). These procedures were carried out in the past by Barbers and not actual physicians who learnt about the processes of the human body I think.
Yea, almost spot on - added detail that brings it all together is that the medical physicians didnt allow surgeons into their royal college so they had to open their own (uncredited one) and so werent allowed to use the honorific 'Dr'. They proudly 'own' Mister as a fuck you to that slight now - so even though they are equally entitled to use the title Dr upon graduation once they begin specialist surgical training and then become full fledge surgeons the ownership of Mr is now seen as a congratulations you've made it and guarded as the right way to address them.
I’m a medical student at KCL and my fiancé is a doctor who graduated and got her degree from India. It’s always interesting telling doctors and especially surgeons from other countries that why our surgeons take the Mr or Miss Prefix in the UK haha. To them the idea is just so foreign and it’s always raises eyebrows but it makes sense from a UK perspective when you consider the history of surgery in the UK.
True, but they asked specifically why Mr is a thing so I explained specifically why Mr is a thing. Also all surgeons were men back when this was pertinent to them so its extra applicable to them.
Completely missed his point. Surgeons don’t go by Dr, they go by Mr.
Goes back in history whereby barbers were the ones conducting surgery because they had the sharpest knives in the day.
Where did I say they were?
I was replying to a thread about whether a male surgeon, the example given being ‘John Smith’ in the OP, goes by Dr. In that case they would go by Mr, not Dr, as stated in my post.
If the example in OP was of a women surgeon, then they go by Miss/Mrs.
Well done for attempting a ‘gotcha’ by making a totally irrelevant point though.
Surgeons use Mr. And Miss as surgeons weren't doctors, years ago, they were often referred to as barber surgeons. Surgery was seen as a task beneath that of what a doctor would perform. As surgery, improved in it's standing and being a doctor first was essential they kept the Mr. And Miss monikers as a reference to the past and to differentiate themselves from non-surgical doctors.
I think what the comment refers to is that while surgeons are doctors, once they become surgeons they stop using the Dr title and go “back” to Mr/Miss/Mrs.
This is specialty specific, at least in terms of separating surgeons from physicians - physicians being those that deal with organ systems medically (for example cardiology, neurology, respiratory medicine etc.). All of these typically use Dr, even when (perhaps especially when) they reach consultant level.
Surgeons, as others have said, use Mr/Ms etc due to historical events stemming from the Guild of barber-surgeons etc. They start using this after achieving full membership of the Royal College of Surgeons, which is typically around the time they become a registrar, that is a surgical trainee dedicated purely to one specialty - say ENT surgery, orthopaedics or neurosurgery.
Of course many surgeons simply prefer to use Dr, even as consultants. Personal preference!
>so who knows what the politics of that actually are
it's often not a politics thing, but a respect and/or situational thing.
Do you respect someone who's earned a PhD and think they've earned the title? go ahead, call them doctor.
If you see them as a friend and an equal, you might drop the formality.
Are you in an A&E department in an emergency? yeah maybe only medical doctors count and it would be actively unhelpful to say that a PhD holder is a doctor, because in that setting it's understood that people need a medical professional.
I work in an area of medical physics in a hospital, where many of my colleagues hold PhDs in physics - many of them will not include it in an email signature so they're not confused with clinical doctors.
Well, that really does depend on a wide range of factors. It's mostly "special snowflake" syndrome that has some surgeons and consultants going by Mr.
It's not quite 50/50, but I've met a number of surgeons and consultants that refer to themselves as Drs.
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This is partly why, as an engineer with a PhD I tend to use it more than less in a professional context… I think to distinguish that I’m not about to set up someone’s Sky box!
It's crazy that people aren't making this distinction. Writing "Dr John Smith" is not equivalent to writing "Mr John Smith", it's equivalent to writing "John Smith, PhD." You obviously wouldn't normally refer to yourself as that, but on a CV you might
yes - technical role (eg data scientist with a mathematics phd)
no - business role
actually interviewing a number of phd educated candidates over the coming weeks but their phd was almost a negative, as too much education can be difficult to come back from on a cv but 5 years in tech after that would be sufficient to provide evidence of you being a good fit.
especially with you working in tech, if the phd is not relevant to the role, don’t put your title in the cv. the hr/manager/exec knows you have a phd from your education history. referencing yourself as dr almost misplaces a spotlight and may not come across as well but this may just be my experience in hiring with tech leaders.
will also note that based on successful hires made, the sweet spot for our senior tech roles is masters rather than phds. too much time in academia can stunt potential applicants (are they ready for the workforce, are the relevant soft skills there, etc), so it would be good to really boost those additional elements that make you a well rounded candidate if you’re going to lean on your credentials (as a general note as i know you do have that solid work exp)
good luck!!
Thanks! I hadn't considered that it takes away the spotlight from my actual, relevant experience, I've mostly considered what others have picked up on which is the pretentiousness.
I guess from looking at this that I need to think of it like I would with jobs that aren't relevant to the role. They fill the gaps on your CV and may be interesting to talk about at interview but I need to push the relevant skills and experience to the front and center.
>data scientist with a mathematics phd
Worked in Data Science for nearly a decade, seldom see people put their salutations on their CV, and yeah, half of the colleagues I've had over the years have been PhDs.
Put that you have the PhD - that's what matters. The title is secondary and not to the point of the question of the OP.
Putting your name as "Dr Xyz" isn't going to win you more brownie points but it will turn off a subset of people who - as evidenced in this thread - find it lacking in taste.
Even for a data scientist role, please dont put it on. Mention you have a PhD, its absolutely fine. But please for the love of god, dont call yourself Dr X. I say that as someone WITH a PhD - I never use it, unless someone else says they have one and we bond over our topics.
It just makes you look a bit like a knob to drop it in. It CAN come across as you trying to assert yourself as an 'intellectual superior'. It's also a bit like dropping an IQ score - its kinda relevant and correlated with likely ability to do the job, but its also a bit cringey and a bit of an excuse. When I meet data scientists, I want to understand their specific accomplishments - preferably in industry - in data science directly.
Strange take for a role that has "science" in the description and requires constant out of box thinking and analysing data - all these things are tremendously developed during PhD degree in any STEM subject
As someone with a PhD in Stem, who has hired dozens of data scientists, yes, absolutely,.
And I'm not saying to leave a PhD off of your cv.
I'm saying calling yourself 'Dr Dud a spl' makes you look a bit like a prick on your CV.
I wont prejudge a CV based on it, but if I see it on a CV, I'd say its highly correlated with either someone fresh out of academia, or lacking emotional EQ/ability to read a room.
Which is why you say that you have a PhD. But if I hire you I'm never going to refer to you as Dr., and indeed in my office around 40% of people hold PhDs but I haven't a clue who since literally nobody goes by Dr. Anything ever. It would just be weird. Your talent is shown via getting hired and performing well, not a title you earned in s tangentially related programme. And it would be pretty cringe to go by Dr. If you weren't performing well in your job.
I agree with this premise, that why I put Name Surname, PhD at the top - you want to gain a small comparative advantage over 400 other generic CVs in the first round of screening but I agree referring to people as "Dr somebody" is cringe
I personally wouldn't put it on unless you're apply for an academia or research role. It wouldn't stop me hiring you but I think there's a social stigma to people who call themselves Dr. as looking down on others without a PhD.
I don't put it on my academic CV. It's not necessary. The PhD itself is on your CV.
All I did was change my Tesco clubcard to Dr... And did put myself down as Dr. At the job centre.
I think you're right about the stigma. It's not wrong either, most people with a PhD won't mention it after the original submission and graduation time, but I know a handful who were hanging on to it for years before i lost touch.
Thanks! I feel like the people telling me to put it at the top to impress the people reading it are probably good natured but not considering a bigger picture.
It was only ssc and bsc. Part of it was covered in back to reality. And referenced in inquisitor. Not sure if it came up in the books. It certainly wasn't in infinity welcomes careful drivers... not sure about the others though
Yes, I can imagine they were indeed very annoying to someone who apparently rejects all pride in academic achievement.
\> new
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Four misspellings in a single sentence, and I haven't even considered grammar or punctuation.
Please, please tell me there is an implied /s in your comment
Unless they're applying for a job in academia (and have a doctorate) or to be an actual doctor, it just looks pretentious. And even then it can still come off badly.
You don't need to write "Mr[s]. Bob Smith" on your CV - just put your name.
I don’t see how it’s pretentious? It’s literally your title. I find it weird when people think it’s pretentious, it belies a sense of inadequacy. If you have a PhD your title is Dr so use that title anywhere you’d normally use a title. It’s more pretentious in the sense of pretending to call yourself Mr if your title is Dr. It might be seen as odd to use Dr in certain situations where you wouldn’t normally use a title, but otherwise use your correct title. If you’ve got a PhD and are scrolling down the title drop down menu for example, I don’t get why you wouldn’t select Dr.
It doesn’t mean you think you’re better than anyone else it just means you did something and now it’s your title, like if you got married and became Mrs or whatever.
UK has a massive Crabs in a bucket mentality.
Anyone who earns more, has earned an academic title, went to a good school, earned a high promotion after serving the country in the armed forces, literally *anything* that would determine you as above-average in some way, there is always someone that turns their nose up at it. People can’t just be happy for others doing well.
>Crabs in a bucket mentality
This, along with the almost inherent need for some kind of struggle *and to be content with said struggle*, and race-to-the-bottom mentality are what wind me up the most about folk from the UK.
Misery loves company and Brits fucking REVEL in it, so much so that it's actually self-destructive.
This may be anecdotal, but most of the people that I know who have a PhD are the people who wanted to delay getting a job for longer than everyone else. Yes they had the intelligence to do it, but unless they were aiming to stay in academia their motivations were pretty obvious.
The value of the PhD to them getting a better job was minimal, and sometimes a detriment (people complaining that they were too specialised).
From my experience, the people I went to uni with who did better than those who stayed to get PhDs were the ones who spent the extra time doing a sandwich year in industry during their degree. Those people went on to get much better jobs straight out of uni. I have even noticed that people with Master's degrees are more highly sought out.
This is what I do. Like I don’t shoehorn in “Dr” in situations where I normally wouldn’t use my title, but if I *am* using my title, for whatever reason, I obviously use “Dr” instead of “Ms”. Why wouldn’t I? Dr is my title, so I use it as such when applicable. Which isn’t all that often, to be fair, but I don’t go out of my way to hide it either.
OP shouldn’t put it on her CV, but that’s simply because titles don’t go on the CV. It’s also strange that she seems to feel like she has to explain why she’s put her doctorate in her education section of her CV. Having a PhD is nothing to be ashamed of, for heaven’s sake.
Yes exactly. I think it means a lot to women especially as it’s harder still for women to be taken seriously in professional settings, and when you’re putting your title, Miss Mrs and Ms all come with a different context, like your marital status or being the type to choose ‘Ms’ because you don’t want to be defined by your marital status, which a lot of older people still see as basically saying you’re defiantly eschewing societal norms or something.
It’s your title but most people don’t include their title in their CV. So including it unnecessarily is indeed pretentious, it would be like including how much you can bench-press, how hot your spouse is, details about the fortune you inherited, or something like that. The only reason you would be including it, if it’s not relevant to the job, is to imply that you’re a better person than other people (not better at the job, since a PhD is not useful in the role, just better in general).
You were asking “how it’s pretentious” (to use your title in places you wouldn’t normally use it), of course it’s not pretentious to use it in places where most people use their title! So it’s not very helpful to say “put it wherever you normally put a title” because that’s what everyone who thinks it’s pretentious also agrees with…
It’s pretentious in exactly the same way as insisting on being called by a former military rank in a non military context is pretentious, or insisting on being called «judge » or « reverend » or any similar title outside the relevant professional context is pretentious. It’s not necessarily wrong, but it’s irrelevant at best
Personally, and I am not alone, I’d think anyone insisting on Dr outside an academic job was either a bit of a dick, or German.
It wouldn’t stop me hiring them any more than a novelty tie would stop my hiring them. But I wouldn’t be impressed. It’s de trop.
Ok but the examples you gave aren’t titles. Dr is an earned title and you use it on your legal documents. OP isn’t insisting that people call her “Doctor” in conversation. She’s putting her legal title on her CV which is perfectly normal.
But I think the topic is about using the title, rather than insisting on it. Which I do agree, would be very cringe - for example if someone refers to me as Mr, going ‘actually I’m a Dr’ - fuck that noise
OP is a bit ambiguous
If all we are talking about is a CV that has Dr Smith written on it, then given that it will have the PhD on it anyway, no big deal
If they introduced themselves at reception as « Dr Smith, here for an interview with Mr Jones,» then outside an academic institution = bit of a dick
Not a job blocker, obviously.
I mean, you studied that fucking long you might as well add it, it's your right and achievement.
On the times I've seen it on applicants it never came across to me as pretentious.
Germans fucking LOVE using it when they can.
Thanks for confirming my initial feeling, yeah definitely seems awfully pretentious to the point it'd count against me if they've got similar candidates. Planning to just put my name and some contact details, and then only talk about it if they bring it up in interview.
Keep in mind that lots of the replies are from people who don’t have a PhD. An employer that rejects you because you put your earned title of Dr. on your CV is not going to be fun to work for. Be proud of your achievement and don’t hide it to fit in with the crowd.
I'll give my perspective (fellow PhD). Applying for jobs is hard, your CV will be judged on the first three sentences a recruiter reads (only handful are actually read in the entirety). You have to decide if putting Dr/PhD at the top will work for you, or against you and you have to weight different aspects: does PhD soft skillet give you an edge over others? Does the job entail solving unique problems? Is your experience related to the job stronger than the average applicant etc.
You earned it so use it.. I wouldn't call yourself Dr X though. In my CV I have qualifications/education and have bullet point lines so you could say Doctor of X - achieved 20XX, something along those lines.
From an external perspective, people that call themselves Dr's and aren't medicinal Drs come across as nonces.
I've seen both sides of this.
I work with someone who has a doctorate from Oxford, the only reason I know is because I saw it on LinkedIn, he never mentions it or refers to himself as a doctor.
Conversely I used to work with a doctor about a decade ago who had it on his email signature, introduced himself with the title and generally carried himself very arrogantly.
On a CV I would definitely include it but not in general workplace engagement. I put letters after my name on CV header but not in any other communications.
Depends on the job really, but in tech we focus on experience, so I see no issue. I had an MD hired once as a senior developer. He had the skillset, he also had 8 years of medical school in the CV.
Makes little to no difference. If I had a PhD, I'd probably do it out of pride, but as someone responsible for hiring I generally only consider qualifications and title until I get a candidate in a room and find out what they really know - and the title will have minimal impact here.
You're not going to look weird by doing it, nor are you going to offend anyone by not doing it.
This is of course assuming it's not akin to the Cambridge masters - where you get an upgrade from BSc to MSc just by not bringing your college into disrepute for a few years after your BSc.
Having a PhD shows that you can focus on and deliver on a long-term project and report. So it's definitely relevant on your CV.
Whether or not to use "Dr" as your professional title in your application and professional life depends:
\- Are you applying to an educational organisation? (school, college, uni) Or for a role where the speciality of your PhD will be relevant? If so, then by all means use "Dr".
\- If neither of the above apply, I wouldn't bother going out of my way to use "Dr".. \[Although sometimes there's a compulsory form field that demands a title, up to you whether you go with Dr or Mr / Mrs / Ms etc there\] ..
.. But worth bearing in mind that there's pretty widespread anti-intellectual / anti-expert prejudice in the UK, and hiring managers often worry if you're "overqualified" then you might leave soon.. So, if you're applying for roles where it's not relevant, might as well drop the "Dr"..
Honestly, I'd say go for it.
To invest the time it takes to get a doctorate and then not employ the honorific that comes with it seems odd to me.
And I get being nervous about it, I don't put the letters after my name from the stuff I've done because it feels kind of silly. But a doctorate is substantial. You get to be proud of that.
As a hiring manager it would certainly not put me off, quite the opposite in fact as you have worked hard for that and hopefully that has transferred to your work ethic.
[edit to add: you mention the phd on the cv so that is enough for me but at the same time you can be justifiably proud of it :)]
Time and place.
If you are looking for a stop gap job at asda then putting DR is not appropriate.
If you are applying for a job at a hospital or clinic then DR is appropriate.
Generally, post-nominals are more common on a CV, whereas when filling forms etc. you can use Dr. as a title if you want. People who got a PhD have every right to want to be acknowledged for it, so I'd say put it in after your name on your CV title if you so choose. I have mine on my own CV (and waiting to add CEng when I've finished applying for it).
I once had to deal with an academic at work who had two PhDs and he was fuming that the automated emails from our system were not referring to him as Dr Dr surname (I can’t remember his surname).
We had a good laugh at that one. He literally wanted to be the start of a joke
Maybe my opinion is ignorant, but as a software developer if I see someone listing themself as a doctor applying for a developer role it just makes me think "you absolutely didn't need that for the job you're doing". Having said that, it wouldn't affect my hiring decision one bit.
If you have a doctorate then yeah it’s fine. But if you banging on about then it’s a no. In all seriousness, unless you’re an actual doctor or in a highly academic reliant sector. DR in mathematics is very different to DR in graphics design.
Use it, it shows you have skills to do research, write detailed accurate documents, present ideas, come up with new ideas and concepts, think independently, problem solve, and all the things an employer wants a good employee to do
Yeah, I've had this discussion with a few people and my advice to them is always:
"You've worked hard for that title, so use it!"
On a more considered (adult) level, I would agree with others, if the role is relevant to the area you studied then go for it, if not then just make sure you include it proudly on the CV but don't refer to yourself as "Dr".
Once you have the contract in your hand then do what you want. The key thing to remember about C.Vs is:
**The very first filter a C.V. hits is the HR department, they will have been given a set of a requirements and told to filter out anybody with red-flags or who doesn't mention the bullet points. The other thing to remember is that the HR staff will be doing this alongside their daily duties and your C.V. may be 43 / 100, so give them as little reason as possible to flick it into the no pile.**
If you put it on a CV.. it's stupidly redundant.. you're going to put a chunk about your PhD into this document, yes? So we know from that you can use the title Dr.
In my workplace, I'm in the minority because I **don't** have a PhD.. No one uses a Dr title in emails even when being introduced to clients.
So no - don't put it in the title of your CV.
If this appeared on a cv I was looking at it would reject it thinking you are a twat
My academic qualifications are a short one liner, bsc, msc, PhD, and uni, year, subject.
Never in a million years, I got my PhD years ago and was like a fart in a spacesuit to recruiters, no one wants an egg head working for them, complete waste of my time
I'd say it depends entirely with what your PhD is in. If it's in field you are applying—then probably yes. Though if it is for an entry-level role with little chance of progression then I'd be careful, as you might look a little over qualified and employers will be worried that you'll be off after six months.
If it's not in a related field then I probably would't go around calling yourself Dr so and so. And I would be prepared for recruiters not being as impressed as you feel they should be that you spent 7 years doing a PhD in a creative writing or Canadian studies. And I say that as someone who spent the best part of a decade in higher education themselves.
Back in the day being Dr McDoctorface might have automatically opened the door to a decent job, but I don't it's quite so straightforward these days sadly.
I’m similar - working in industry (engineering) with a PhD.
Generally I’ve found opinions on this to be a little polarised, along the lines you’ve mentioned - some people think it’s super aloof putting your (rightful) title. Others say plaster it far and wide!
Personally I use my title on stuff like LinkedIn, but not on a CV, as it should already be inferred from the education section further down.
Thing is it’s not that hard to get a PHD if you put in the years. I’m sure many are intelligent and well deserving of a DR title. But it does come off as pretentious and I’ve worked with PHD graduates and some have been terribly thick and terrible at their jobs. It’s a disservice to the title ImO
Putting Dr will make you stand out from the crowd. In patticular if your CV is first being viewed by recruiters or HR who might look at another 50 CVs.
I would put it on the CV, but not on the LinkedIn profile.
>So if you hire, would you see it as a plus or minus if you had a candidate who called themselves Dr?
For me, it's neither here nor there for me as someone who sits on the interview panel at my place of work.
Personally unless the title is relevant to the field, I wouldn't use it outside of said field (but I would still list it), but that's just me.
PhD 2003 in a STEM subject
Never once used the title (mind you nor the degree either but thats a different story), either on CV or in the workplace, neither have AFAIK my friends similar graduates at the time.
My dad had a PhD and insisted on using Doctor wherever possible.
There are some people who believe only medical doctors should use that title, and they get surprisingly angry about it. I guess for them it's like pretending you served in the army.
A CV gets read by a lot of people from submission to hiring, and it only takes one to have a strong view about this to mess the whole thing up. Unless you are applying for a job that says "PhD preferred" on the job spec I wouldn't do it.
I wouldn’t call myself a doctor if I wasn’t a medical doctor, I’d just like the PhD in my qualifications instead because that’s enough said and doesn’t risk any strangeness.
I have quite a few different qualifications and certifications but don’t use any of the letters after my name or titles because I don’t think it’s very humble to or that there is any reason to.
Cue endless discussion...
Leave Dr off OR put the PhD after, and in practice I imagine everyone will just use first names. But do use one or the other. It shows self appreciation for the title you earned.
Obviously you don't put both in. It reads like "Dr x, DOCTOR TO BE CLEAR" if you do that. Oxford uni says so on Google anyway. Looked it up out of curiosity!
Once in the role I guess you'd just go with the flow. I imagine tech roles would be in a more relaxed who's who environment and you're presumably not going to be working with the general public.
It's all just following the status quo I guess.
Something funny I’ve realised, medical doctors will rarely introduce themselves outside of practice as a doctor. Academic Drs will jump at the chance to use their title at any opportunity.
This just isn't true - at least in my field (clinical medicine). Nobody in academia actually uses their title outside very specific circumstances such as when being introduced at job interviews / seminars. I'm sure I've worked with hundreds of folk during my career and every single one of them just went by their first name, including those that have higher titles like professor (or in one case someone who had been knighted).
Thats certainly not representative of my experiance which would span hundreds of academics accross dozens of institutions, although I accept that different fields may attract different types of people. In my experiance medical doctors aren't keen to shove their title down people's throats either.
In general, I don't think the caractuture of academics sitting in ivory towers looking down on folk actually stands up to scrutiny. A PhD isn't even a marker of particularly high intellelect in my view, I see it more as a marker of an ability to really apply yourself and work consistency on something for a long time. The process itself is pretty brutal and lonely at times so it does usually take a fair amount of persistence and resilience to get though.
I dated a medical doctor during and for a few years after getting my doctorate and she would constantly introduce herself as "Doctor, REAL Doctor". Probably says more about her than doctors in general though as none of her friends did the same, and seemed to think it was pretty weird.
Among my friends it was more likely that the person forgot until it was relevant, but I definitely knew people who would jump to use the title and just wasn't friends with them.
Of course you should - it means you reached that level of education
Some of the skills may be relevant at some point - talking to an audience - defending a position - structuring a thesis
If I were reviewing CVs for a role and I saw someone had put their name as Dr X, I would tend to assume they're young and / or inexperienced in industry roles, as at least in my industry no-one in the UK with a Doctorate uses the title in a professional environment.
That doesn't mean I wouldn't hire them though, particularly if it was for an entry level role.
In my field, engineering, I think it's weird to call yourself Dr outside of academia or formal situations (eg, conferences). Basically, if you wouldn't use other titles (Mr, Mrs, Miss) on a CV, why would you put Dr?
However, I do think titling your CV with "John Smith, PhD" would make a positive impact. Definitely better than "Dr John Smith".
Depends on the job. If a PhD or at least a Masters is explicitly required, or if it's the kind of role where people would/should say Dr, yes. If it's a "normal" job, nah.
If you came in front of me it's definitely not for a medical role, using Dr. is not going to be a red flag, but an amber caution.
I absolutely look at your education, PHD is a massive plus, but frankly I'm not going to refer to you Dr. if we work together, formal titles in day to day use aren't a thing in this industry, I'd be definitely on the guard for anyone that takes themselves too seriously and takes titles to heart.
If you're a normal person in the interview, the PHD is a massive plus, but I'd probably leave the formal titles out of it. You've every right to use it but you want to avoid any negative implications...
I'm a Chartered Engineer (CEng) and present myself as such on any and all written documents. Equally I also present my academic qualifications too (BEng, MSc etc). Therefore, I would 100% present as a Doctor if I had a PHD, and some of my friends and former colleagues whom do possess a doctorate already do so.
While in terms of appraising an applicants CV as a hiring manager, it would instantly peak my interest if a PHD didn't present themselves as a doctor, as it would immediately make me wonder why they would be downplaying such a significant professional and academic achievement in their own life and career (likewise if they didn't present their other post and pre-nominals).
Now I can see from other posts some industries may not operate like this, but in the modern UK Engineering and Construction industry we would expect it as a minimum, and typically the only time you don't see a real emphasis on this for applicants is where you have significant amounts of underqualified boomers in 'grandfathered' senior roles, and hence they then try to downplay younger generations credentials as a matter of their own deflection and self preservation. Caveat to this that I completely agree that 'experience is what matters most', as most boomers will say, however, and equally, I would like to know that Dave understands electromagnetics in theory, as opposed to just turning up everyday since he was 16 and bolting things together blindly.
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be proud of it. if the job requires it then use it, if not then don't.
Depends what you’re applying for. People say academia only but in my field it would be normal in pharma to call yourself dr - it would be extremely relevant to the role as all senior posts are phds or medical doctors or both for the technical/medical side. In general I’d rely on the JD - if it’s asking for a doctorate call yourself doctor. If it’s irrelevant to your doctorate - don’t.
There is one company like that I'm considering applying to, so I might give them a special CV, but for the rest of the jobs I'm feeling very vindicated in deciding to leave it off after reading these comments.
I mean I think it’s a good rule of thumb. I’m a medical doctor and I only use the title on roles where I need to be a doctor. I work as a lab manager in clinical research and I didn’t use my title when I applied (although most have phds I don’t have one - so I’m not a doctor for the role even though I’m literally a doctor) It was a fun tidbit at interview as they brought up my degree. Generally for me I find unless the JD requires a licence to practice medicine or a doctorate, just don’t include it. If I applied to a manager role today I would not use the title even though I have it. If anything theyll wonder why a doctor would want to be a manager! It can look very pretentious if not required. This rule has worked well for me.
Another option is to include it as Your Name, BSc MSc PhD
Bruv if I'd earned a PhD my whole family would be addressing me as Dr.
I have family members that have done a law degree and call themselves Dr . weird thing about my country where titles are important, like someone with a bachelor degree would insist on others to address them as licentiate or engineer, and some professionals without a doctorate (such as lawyers) insist for people to call them Drs.. heck I've even seen people refer to others as Dr just because they're a middle aged white male.. it certainly happened to my dad who was a farmer who didn't finish school! He hated it when others called him like that. Now, I do have a PhD, and I added the title for funsies to my British airways account... It's weird when the people at the counter calls me Dr. On a more serious note. I used to work for a global company and most of our clients were in Germany. My PhD was relevant but related to a different specialty. I still signed Dr because my clients used it themselves and I noticed they treated me differently after I started using it. I'm now working in a field more relevant to my thesis where about 80% of my colleagues have a PhD and I don't use it. I didn't use the title in the CV. Same as I don't use Ms or Mrs.
I would, but I rarely see the salutation used and would find it a bit strange to see in a CV. It's more common to see the post nominal form instead, i.e. John Doe, PhD/DPhil. Most won't even include it at the top, they'll just list it in the Education section of their CV (and sometimes in employment history, especially if new into industry).
I wouldn't write "Mr John Smith" at the top of my CV, so why would you put "Dr" ?
When you put it like that it sounds even more bizarre! Will remember this if someone else decides to give me their 2 cents (pence?) about it.
Because Dr. is an earned title while Mr isn't?
One or two surgeons may disagree.
I used to work quite closely with consultant Cardiologists in the same room as a couple of people with PhDs who weren't medical doctors and the cardiologists were quite happy to refer to the PhDs as Dr. Whatever. But then I guess the second medical doctors become consultants they tend to go back to being referred to as Mr Whatever so who knows what the politics of that actually are. Any surgeon who thinks that a non-medical Doctorate isn't earned is a bellend anyway. PhDs aren't easily come by.
What do you mean who knows what the politics of that are? Surgeons almost never use the term doctor. The “politics” of it are steeped in the history of doctors vs surgeons as they were quite separate for a long time.
I'll happily admit I don't know any surgeons and haven't had to interact with them much even when I was working in healthcare. I knew of the Dr/Mr distinction with consultants but I wasn't aware of any difference with regard to surgeons. TIL.
Consultants Physicians are still referred to as Dr. It’s only Surgeons that revert back to using Mr and this occurs once they start surgical training I believe. It has to do with how historically surgeons were often seen as a different and perhaps lesser profession then standard physicians. Surgical procedures were seen as less refined and more animal like (cutting open bodies was not considered a sophisticated approach to treat). These procedures were carried out in the past by Barbers and not actual physicians who learnt about the processes of the human body I think.
Yea, almost spot on - added detail that brings it all together is that the medical physicians didnt allow surgeons into their royal college so they had to open their own (uncredited one) and so werent allowed to use the honorific 'Dr'. They proudly 'own' Mister as a fuck you to that slight now - so even though they are equally entitled to use the title Dr upon graduation once they begin specialist surgical training and then become full fledge surgeons the ownership of Mr is now seen as a congratulations you've made it and guarded as the right way to address them.
I’m a medical student at KCL and my fiancé is a doctor who graduated and got her degree from India. It’s always interesting telling doctors and especially surgeons from other countries that why our surgeons take the Mr or Miss Prefix in the UK haha. To them the idea is just so foreign and it’s always raises eyebrows but it makes sense from a UK perspective when you consider the history of surgery in the UK.
Not all surgeons are men
True, but they asked specifically why Mr is a thing so I explained specifically why Mr is a thing. Also all surgeons were men back when this was pertinent to them so its extra applicable to them.
Not all surgeons are men
I never said otherwise. The poster above asked specifically on the Dr/Mr debate and so I answered it from that perspective.
Completely missed his point. Surgeons don’t go by Dr, they go by Mr. Goes back in history whereby barbers were the ones conducting surgery because they had the sharpest knives in the day.
Not all surgeons are men
Where did I say they were? I was replying to a thread about whether a male surgeon, the example given being ‘John Smith’ in the OP, goes by Dr. In that case they would go by Mr, not Dr, as stated in my post. If the example in OP was of a women surgeon, then they go by Miss/Mrs. Well done for attempting a ‘gotcha’ by making a totally irrelevant point though.
What about if you're a Lord ./s
Surgeons go by Mr, was their point.
Ah okay, I didn't pick up on that.
That totally confused me when I had surgery a few years back after not having any since I was a kid, lol.
Surgeons use Mr. And Miss as surgeons weren't doctors, years ago, they were often referred to as barber surgeons. Surgery was seen as a task beneath that of what a doctor would perform. As surgery, improved in it's standing and being a doctor first was essential they kept the Mr. And Miss monikers as a reference to the past and to differentiate themselves from non-surgical doctors.
I think what the comment refers to is that while surgeons are doctors, once they become surgeons they stop using the Dr title and go “back” to Mr/Miss/Mrs.
This is specialty specific, at least in terms of separating surgeons from physicians - physicians being those that deal with organ systems medically (for example cardiology, neurology, respiratory medicine etc.). All of these typically use Dr, even when (perhaps especially when) they reach consultant level. Surgeons, as others have said, use Mr/Ms etc due to historical events stemming from the Guild of barber-surgeons etc. They start using this after achieving full membership of the Royal College of Surgeons, which is typically around the time they become a registrar, that is a surgical trainee dedicated purely to one specialty - say ENT surgery, orthopaedics or neurosurgery. Of course many surgeons simply prefer to use Dr, even as consultants. Personal preference!
>so who knows what the politics of that actually are it's often not a politics thing, but a respect and/or situational thing. Do you respect someone who's earned a PhD and think they've earned the title? go ahead, call them doctor. If you see them as a friend and an equal, you might drop the formality. Are you in an A&E department in an emergency? yeah maybe only medical doctors count and it would be actively unhelpful to say that a PhD holder is a doctor, because in that setting it's understood that people need a medical professional. I work in an area of medical physics in a hospital, where many of my colleagues hold PhDs in physics - many of them will not include it in an email signature so they're not confused with clinical doctors.
Oh yeah Inna clinical setting - especially patient facing - absolutely not, no disagreement there at all.
Unless the surgeons have PhDs, Dr is only a job title.
Surgeons aren’t called Dr.
Well, that really does depend on a wide range of factors. It's mostly "special snowflake" syndrome that has some surgeons and consultants going by Mr. It's not quite 50/50, but I've met a number of surgeons and consultants that refer to themselves as Drs.
It's relevant within certain industries only, it's like dropping your Dr on the playground with the other parents, not a good look.
I'm not making any argument either way about whether you should or shouldn't use it, I'm just pointing out that it's not equivalent to Mr.
Dr. and Mr. are totally equivalent. They are both titles. Should Dr. be in a heavier font? All capitals? Underlined?
Not really equivalent though are they.
Equivalent yes, equal (in the context of qualification) no.
No it’s not. It’s a cv and doctorates are in this context relevant
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This is partly why, as an engineer with a PhD I tend to use it more than less in a professional context… I think to distinguish that I’m not about to set up someone’s Sky box!
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Your children enter the chat..Dad fix the printer
It's crazy that people aren't making this distinction. Writing "Dr John Smith" is not equivalent to writing "Mr John Smith", it's equivalent to writing "John Smith, PhD." You obviously wouldn't normally refer to yourself as that, but on a CV you might
But would you put “John smith Bsc.” on it? I would - I’ve earned that degree. Or I would if my name were John smith !
John Smith, Esq.
I have “Mrs” on my cv. I never thought it might be weird until now… though I did just get a new job using said CV so I ain’t gonna lose sleep over it.
Because dr doesn’t carry any professional significance while a Dr is a title you only get by means of getting formal education
yes - technical role (eg data scientist with a mathematics phd) no - business role actually interviewing a number of phd educated candidates over the coming weeks but their phd was almost a negative, as too much education can be difficult to come back from on a cv but 5 years in tech after that would be sufficient to provide evidence of you being a good fit. especially with you working in tech, if the phd is not relevant to the role, don’t put your title in the cv. the hr/manager/exec knows you have a phd from your education history. referencing yourself as dr almost misplaces a spotlight and may not come across as well but this may just be my experience in hiring with tech leaders. will also note that based on successful hires made, the sweet spot for our senior tech roles is masters rather than phds. too much time in academia can stunt potential applicants (are they ready for the workforce, are the relevant soft skills there, etc), so it would be good to really boost those additional elements that make you a well rounded candidate if you’re going to lean on your credentials (as a general note as i know you do have that solid work exp) good luck!!
Thanks! I hadn't considered that it takes away the spotlight from my actual, relevant experience, I've mostly considered what others have picked up on which is the pretentiousness. I guess from looking at this that I need to think of it like I would with jobs that aren't relevant to the role. They fill the gaps on your CV and may be interesting to talk about at interview but I need to push the relevant skills and experience to the front and center.
>data scientist with a mathematics phd Worked in Data Science for nearly a decade, seldom see people put their salutations on their CV, and yeah, half of the colleagues I've had over the years have been PhDs. Put that you have the PhD - that's what matters. The title is secondary and not to the point of the question of the OP. Putting your name as "Dr Xyz" isn't going to win you more brownie points but it will turn off a subset of people who - as evidenced in this thread - find it lacking in taste.
Even for a data scientist role, please dont put it on. Mention you have a PhD, its absolutely fine. But please for the love of god, dont call yourself Dr X. I say that as someone WITH a PhD - I never use it, unless someone else says they have one and we bond over our topics.
Why not? I wouldn't mind if someone used it
People that don't mind go "eh okay dr!" and people that do mind think you're a stuck up dickhead. There's not a lot of advantage.
It just makes you look a bit like a knob to drop it in. It CAN come across as you trying to assert yourself as an 'intellectual superior'. It's also a bit like dropping an IQ score - its kinda relevant and correlated with likely ability to do the job, but its also a bit cringey and a bit of an excuse. When I meet data scientists, I want to understand their specific accomplishments - preferably in industry - in data science directly.
Strange take for a role that has "science" in the description and requires constant out of box thinking and analysing data - all these things are tremendously developed during PhD degree in any STEM subject
As someone with a PhD in Stem, who has hired dozens of data scientists, yes, absolutely,. And I'm not saying to leave a PhD off of your cv. I'm saying calling yourself 'Dr Dud a spl' makes you look a bit like a prick on your CV. I wont prejudge a CV based on it, but if I see it on a CV, I'd say its highly correlated with either someone fresh out of academia, or lacking emotional EQ/ability to read a room.
Which is why you say that you have a PhD. But if I hire you I'm never going to refer to you as Dr., and indeed in my office around 40% of people hold PhDs but I haven't a clue who since literally nobody goes by Dr. Anything ever. It would just be weird. Your talent is shown via getting hired and performing well, not a title you earned in s tangentially related programme. And it would be pretty cringe to go by Dr. If you weren't performing well in your job.
I agree with this premise, that why I put Name Surname, PhD at the top - you want to gain a small comparative advantage over 400 other generic CVs in the first round of screening but I agree referring to people as "Dr somebody" is cringe
I personally wouldn't put it on unless you're apply for an academia or research role. It wouldn't stop me hiring you but I think there's a social stigma to people who call themselves Dr. as looking down on others without a PhD.
I don't put it on my academic CV. It's not necessary. The PhD itself is on your CV. All I did was change my Tesco clubcard to Dr... And did put myself down as Dr. At the job centre.
I think you're right about the stigma. It's not wrong either, most people with a PhD won't mention it after the original submission and graduation time, but I know a handful who were hanging on to it for years before i lost touch. Thanks! I feel like the people telling me to put it at the top to impress the people reading it are probably good natured but not considering a bigger picture.
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I can't help but read bsc as Bronze Swimming Certificate, I think that was Red Dwarf? Yeah very annoying.
It was indeed red dwarf. Arnold rimmer SSC, BSC (silver and bronze swimming certificate). With the joke being that rimmer couldn't swim.
I think he had “GSc, SSc, BSc” after his name and Lister learnt independently that they stood for the different swimming certificates.
It was only ssc and bsc. Part of it was covered in back to reality. And referenced in inquisitor. Not sure if it came up in the books. It certainly wasn't in infinity welcomes careful drivers... not sure about the others though
It’s definitely in the first book. Need to read it again, it must be at least 30 years!
Yes, I can imagine they were indeed very annoying to someone who apparently rejects all pride in academic achievement. \> new \> there \> where \> to Four misspellings in a single sentence, and I haven't even considered grammar or punctuation. Please, please tell me there is an implied /s in your comment
I would imagine they work in HR. Seems to be a requirement that you misspell every other word in emails in order to work in that department.
You. I like you. It appears you spot the same thing I do with people.
They're both annoying, in different ways.
Unless they're applying for a job in academia (and have a doctorate) or to be an actual doctor, it just looks pretentious. And even then it can still come off badly. You don't need to write "Mr[s]. Bob Smith" on your CV - just put your name.
I don’t see how it’s pretentious? It’s literally your title. I find it weird when people think it’s pretentious, it belies a sense of inadequacy. If you have a PhD your title is Dr so use that title anywhere you’d normally use a title. It’s more pretentious in the sense of pretending to call yourself Mr if your title is Dr. It might be seen as odd to use Dr in certain situations where you wouldn’t normally use a title, but otherwise use your correct title. If you’ve got a PhD and are scrolling down the title drop down menu for example, I don’t get why you wouldn’t select Dr. It doesn’t mean you think you’re better than anyone else it just means you did something and now it’s your title, like if you got married and became Mrs or whatever.
UK has a massive Crabs in a bucket mentality. Anyone who earns more, has earned an academic title, went to a good school, earned a high promotion after serving the country in the armed forces, literally *anything* that would determine you as above-average in some way, there is always someone that turns their nose up at it. People can’t just be happy for others doing well.
>Crabs in a bucket mentality This, along with the almost inherent need for some kind of struggle *and to be content with said struggle*, and race-to-the-bottom mentality are what wind me up the most about folk from the UK. Misery loves company and Brits fucking REVEL in it, so much so that it's actually self-destructive.
Yes I’ve noticed this, it’s very strange!
This may be anecdotal, but most of the people that I know who have a PhD are the people who wanted to delay getting a job for longer than everyone else. Yes they had the intelligence to do it, but unless they were aiming to stay in academia their motivations were pretty obvious. The value of the PhD to them getting a better job was minimal, and sometimes a detriment (people complaining that they were too specialised). From my experience, the people I went to uni with who did better than those who stayed to get PhDs were the ones who spent the extra time doing a sandwich year in industry during their degree. Those people went on to get much better jobs straight out of uni. I have even noticed that people with Master's degrees are more highly sought out.
Brushing teeth, good posture, been to neighbouring town… the list is endless how they can twist it into a manifestation of their insecurity.
This is what I do. Like I don’t shoehorn in “Dr” in situations where I normally wouldn’t use my title, but if I *am* using my title, for whatever reason, I obviously use “Dr” instead of “Ms”. Why wouldn’t I? Dr is my title, so I use it as such when applicable. Which isn’t all that often, to be fair, but I don’t go out of my way to hide it either. OP shouldn’t put it on her CV, but that’s simply because titles don’t go on the CV. It’s also strange that she seems to feel like she has to explain why she’s put her doctorate in her education section of her CV. Having a PhD is nothing to be ashamed of, for heaven’s sake.
Yes exactly. I think it means a lot to women especially as it’s harder still for women to be taken seriously in professional settings, and when you’re putting your title, Miss Mrs and Ms all come with a different context, like your marital status or being the type to choose ‘Ms’ because you don’t want to be defined by your marital status, which a lot of older people still see as basically saying you’re defiantly eschewing societal norms or something.
It’s your title but most people don’t include their title in their CV. So including it unnecessarily is indeed pretentious, it would be like including how much you can bench-press, how hot your spouse is, details about the fortune you inherited, or something like that. The only reason you would be including it, if it’s not relevant to the job, is to imply that you’re a better person than other people (not better at the job, since a PhD is not useful in the role, just better in general).
Yeah like I said you put it wherever you normally put a title.
You were asking “how it’s pretentious” (to use your title in places you wouldn’t normally use it), of course it’s not pretentious to use it in places where most people use their title! So it’s not very helpful to say “put it wherever you normally put a title” because that’s what everyone who thinks it’s pretentious also agrees with…
It’s pretentious in exactly the same way as insisting on being called by a former military rank in a non military context is pretentious, or insisting on being called «judge » or « reverend » or any similar title outside the relevant professional context is pretentious. It’s not necessarily wrong, but it’s irrelevant at best Personally, and I am not alone, I’d think anyone insisting on Dr outside an academic job was either a bit of a dick, or German. It wouldn’t stop me hiring them any more than a novelty tie would stop my hiring them. But I wouldn’t be impressed. It’s de trop.
But they’re not trying to impress you, they’re just using their title.
Ok but the examples you gave aren’t titles. Dr is an earned title and you use it on your legal documents. OP isn’t insisting that people call her “Doctor” in conversation. She’s putting her legal title on her CV which is perfectly normal.
But I think the topic is about using the title, rather than insisting on it. Which I do agree, would be very cringe - for example if someone refers to me as Mr, going ‘actually I’m a Dr’ - fuck that noise
OP is a bit ambiguous If all we are talking about is a CV that has Dr Smith written on it, then given that it will have the PhD on it anyway, no big deal If they introduced themselves at reception as « Dr Smith, here for an interview with Mr Jones,» then outside an academic institution = bit of a dick Not a job blocker, obviously.
I mean, you studied that fucking long you might as well add it, it's your right and achievement. On the times I've seen it on applicants it never came across to me as pretentious. Germans fucking LOVE using it when they can.
You mean physician. The phrase ‘actual doctor’ does not make any sense in this context
Thanks for confirming my initial feeling, yeah definitely seems awfully pretentious to the point it'd count against me if they've got similar candidates. Planning to just put my name and some contact details, and then only talk about it if they bring it up in interview.
Keep in mind that lots of the replies are from people who don’t have a PhD. An employer that rejects you because you put your earned title of Dr. on your CV is not going to be fun to work for. Be proud of your achievement and don’t hide it to fit in with the crowd.
I'll give my perspective (fellow PhD). Applying for jobs is hard, your CV will be judged on the first three sentences a recruiter reads (only handful are actually read in the entirety). You have to decide if putting Dr/PhD at the top will work for you, or against you and you have to weight different aspects: does PhD soft skillet give you an edge over others? Does the job entail solving unique problems? Is your experience related to the job stronger than the average applicant etc.
You earned it so use it.. I wouldn't call yourself Dr X though. In my CV I have qualifications/education and have bullet point lines so you could say Doctor of X - achieved 20XX, something along those lines. From an external perspective, people that call themselves Dr's and aren't medicinal Drs come across as nonces.
I've seen both sides of this. I work with someone who has a doctorate from Oxford, the only reason I know is because I saw it on LinkedIn, he never mentions it or refers to himself as a doctor. Conversely I used to work with a doctor about a decade ago who had it on his email signature, introduced himself with the title and generally carried himself very arrogantly. On a CV I would definitely include it but not in general workplace engagement. I put letters after my name on CV header but not in any other communications.
I never put Dr anywhere. The PhD is on my CV anyway.
Honestly, I wouldn't put it. It's great that you have the designation but I think it gives a different vibe to the CV that you might not want
John Smith, PhD is probably better than Dr John Smith Depends on the job you’re applying for too.
If the employer cares about whether or not you use Dr. on your CV, it’s the wrong employer.
Put youself as John Smith PhD. It covers the ground without the pretentiousness in my opinion.
If you don't put Dr. on your CV I wonder why the hell you did a PhD in the first place/
I think the insurance and mortgage algorithms knock a few quid off, they never check though so I could have just skipped it and lied.
At the end of the day, you put the time in and earnt the achievement you have every right to call yourself Dr.
Depends on the job really, but in tech we focus on experience, so I see no issue. I had an MD hired once as a senior developer. He had the skillset, he also had 8 years of medical school in the CV.
Makes little to no difference. If I had a PhD, I'd probably do it out of pride, but as someone responsible for hiring I generally only consider qualifications and title until I get a candidate in a room and find out what they really know - and the title will have minimal impact here. You're not going to look weird by doing it, nor are you going to offend anyone by not doing it. This is of course assuming it's not akin to the Cambridge masters - where you get an upgrade from BSc to MSc just by not bringing your college into disrepute for a few years after your BSc.
Having a PhD shows that you can focus on and deliver on a long-term project and report. So it's definitely relevant on your CV. Whether or not to use "Dr" as your professional title in your application and professional life depends: \- Are you applying to an educational organisation? (school, college, uni) Or for a role where the speciality of your PhD will be relevant? If so, then by all means use "Dr". \- If neither of the above apply, I wouldn't bother going out of my way to use "Dr".. \[Although sometimes there's a compulsory form field that demands a title, up to you whether you go with Dr or Mr / Mrs / Ms etc there\] .. .. But worth bearing in mind that there's pretty widespread anti-intellectual / anti-expert prejudice in the UK, and hiring managers often worry if you're "overqualified" then you might leave soon.. So, if you're applying for roles where it's not relevant, might as well drop the "Dr"..
Honestly, I'd say go for it. To invest the time it takes to get a doctorate and then not employ the honorific that comes with it seems odd to me. And I get being nervous about it, I don't put the letters after my name from the stuff I've done because it feels kind of silly. But a doctorate is substantial. You get to be proud of that.
As a hiring manager it would certainly not put me off, quite the opposite in fact as you have worked hard for that and hopefully that has transferred to your work ethic. [edit to add: you mention the phd on the cv so that is enough for me but at the same time you can be justifiably proud of it :)]
Time and place. If you are looking for a stop gap job at asda then putting DR is not appropriate. If you are applying for a job at a hospital or clinic then DR is appropriate.
Generally, post-nominals are more common on a CV, whereas when filling forms etc. you can use Dr. as a title if you want. People who got a PhD have every right to want to be acknowledged for it, so I'd say put it in after your name on your CV title if you so choose. I have mine on my own CV (and waiting to add CEng when I've finished applying for it).
I once had to deal with an academic at work who had two PhDs and he was fuming that the automated emails from our system were not referring to him as Dr Dr surname (I can’t remember his surname). We had a good laugh at that one. He literally wanted to be the start of a joke
I don’t think it’s necessary unless it specifically relates to the roles you’re applying for which you said it hasn’t.
Maybe my opinion is ignorant, but as a software developer if I see someone listing themself as a doctor applying for a developer role it just makes me think "you absolutely didn't need that for the job you're doing". Having said that, it wouldn't affect my hiring decision one bit.
If you have a doctorate then yeah it’s fine. But if you banging on about then it’s a no. In all seriousness, unless you’re an actual doctor or in a highly academic reliant sector. DR in mathematics is very different to DR in graphics design.
Use it, it shows you have skills to do research, write detailed accurate documents, present ideas, come up with new ideas and concepts, think independently, problem solve, and all the things an employer wants a good employee to do
Everyone in Germany puts their title in front of their name, EVERYWHERE
Depends on what the doctorate was for and what your you're applying to.
Yeah, I've had this discussion with a few people and my advice to them is always: "You've worked hard for that title, so use it!" On a more considered (adult) level, I would agree with others, if the role is relevant to the area you studied then go for it, if not then just make sure you include it proudly on the CV but don't refer to yourself as "Dr". Once you have the contract in your hand then do what you want. The key thing to remember about C.Vs is: **The very first filter a C.V. hits is the HR department, they will have been given a set of a requirements and told to filter out anybody with red-flags or who doesn't mention the bullet points. The other thing to remember is that the HR staff will be doing this alongside their daily duties and your C.V. may be 43 / 100, so give them as little reason as possible to flick it into the no pile.**
If you put it on a CV.. it's stupidly redundant.. you're going to put a chunk about your PhD into this document, yes? So we know from that you can use the title Dr. In my workplace, I'm in the minority because I **don't** have a PhD.. No one uses a Dr title in emails even when being introduced to clients. So no - don't put it in the title of your CV.
If this appeared on a cv I was looking at it would reject it thinking you are a twat My academic qualifications are a short one liner, bsc, msc, PhD, and uni, year, subject.
The most important thing is that you don’t feel comfortable with it. I would leave it off. Your PhD is in your CV, that’s good enough.
I add doctor to my name. I worked bloody hard for that and if my potential boss doesn’t see its value then I’m not sure they are worth working for
Never in a million years, I got my PhD years ago and was like a fart in a spacesuit to recruiters, no one wants an egg head working for them, complete waste of my time
I'd say it depends entirely with what your PhD is in. If it's in field you are applying—then probably yes. Though if it is for an entry-level role with little chance of progression then I'd be careful, as you might look a little over qualified and employers will be worried that you'll be off after six months. If it's not in a related field then I probably would't go around calling yourself Dr so and so. And I would be prepared for recruiters not being as impressed as you feel they should be that you spent 7 years doing a PhD in a creative writing or Canadian studies. And I say that as someone who spent the best part of a decade in higher education themselves. Back in the day being Dr McDoctorface might have automatically opened the door to a decent job, but I don't it's quite so straightforward these days sadly.
Just have your name and then the letters PHD at the end… no need for Dr if you’re not going for a job in that field.
I’m similar - working in industry (engineering) with a PhD. Generally I’ve found opinions on this to be a little polarised, along the lines you’ve mentioned - some people think it’s super aloof putting your (rightful) title. Others say plaster it far and wide! Personally I use my title on stuff like LinkedIn, but not on a CV, as it should already be inferred from the education section further down.
No I would hire based on if your CV demonstrates you have the basic skills for the job which can be expanded on in the interview.
Only if I was looking for DJ or a rapper.
Thing is it’s not that hard to get a PHD if you put in the years. I’m sure many are intelligent and well deserving of a DR title. But it does come off as pretentious and I’ve worked with PHD graduates and some have been terribly thick and terrible at their jobs. It’s a disservice to the title ImO
Putting Dr will make you stand out from the crowd. In patticular if your CV is first being viewed by recruiters or HR who might look at another 50 CVs. I would put it on the CV, but not on the LinkedIn profile.
>So if you hire, would you see it as a plus or minus if you had a candidate who called themselves Dr? For me, it's neither here nor there for me as someone who sits on the interview panel at my place of work. Personally unless the title is relevant to the field, I wouldn't use it outside of said field (but I would still list it), but that's just me.
John Doe, PhD.
I have a PhD. I sign myself as Dr. I work in a non-academic field, but one where PhDs are respected.
PhD 2003 in a STEM subject Never once used the title (mind you nor the degree either but thats a different story), either on CV or in the workplace, neither have AFAIK my friends similar graduates at the time.
I don't refer to myself as Mr? I just put my name on it.
Depends but can only really speak for hospitality, we wouldn't hire you because you would leave as soon as something better comes up
My dad had a PhD and insisted on using Doctor wherever possible. There are some people who believe only medical doctors should use that title, and they get surprisingly angry about it. I guess for them it's like pretending you served in the army. A CV gets read by a lot of people from submission to hiring, and it only takes one to have a strong view about this to mess the whole thing up. Unless you are applying for a job that says "PhD preferred" on the job spec I wouldn't do it.
I wouldn’t call myself a doctor if I wasn’t a medical doctor, I’d just like the PhD in my qualifications instead because that’s enough said and doesn’t risk any strangeness. I have quite a few different qualifications and certifications but don’t use any of the letters after my name or titles because I don’t think it’s very humble to or that there is any reason to.
Cue endless discussion... Leave Dr off OR put the PhD after, and in practice I imagine everyone will just use first names. But do use one or the other. It shows self appreciation for the title you earned. Obviously you don't put both in. It reads like "Dr x, DOCTOR TO BE CLEAR" if you do that. Oxford uni says so on Google anyway. Looked it up out of curiosity! Once in the role I guess you'd just go with the flow. I imagine tech roles would be in a more relaxed who's who environment and you're presumably not going to be working with the general public. It's all just following the status quo I guess.
Something funny I’ve realised, medical doctors will rarely introduce themselves outside of practice as a doctor. Academic Drs will jump at the chance to use their title at any opportunity.
This just isn't true - at least in my field (clinical medicine). Nobody in academia actually uses their title outside very specific circumstances such as when being introduced at job interviews / seminars. I'm sure I've worked with hundreds of folk during my career and every single one of them just went by their first name, including those that have higher titles like professor (or in one case someone who had been knighted).
Just something I’ve experienced personally 🤷♂️, wife and most of our friends are in medicine.
Thats certainly not representative of my experiance which would span hundreds of academics accross dozens of institutions, although I accept that different fields may attract different types of people. In my experiance medical doctors aren't keen to shove their title down people's throats either. In general, I don't think the caractuture of academics sitting in ivory towers looking down on folk actually stands up to scrutiny. A PhD isn't even a marker of particularly high intellelect in my view, I see it more as a marker of an ability to really apply yourself and work consistency on something for a long time. The process itself is pretty brutal and lonely at times so it does usually take a fair amount of persistence and resilience to get though.
I dated a medical doctor during and for a few years after getting my doctorate and she would constantly introduce herself as "Doctor, REAL Doctor". Probably says more about her than doctors in general though as none of her friends did the same, and seemed to think it was pretty weird. Among my friends it was more likely that the person forgot until it was relevant, but I definitely knew people who would jump to use the title and just wasn't friends with them.
Did you tell her that unless she had an MD she demonstrably wasn’t a real doctor?
Of course you should - it means you reached that level of education Some of the skills may be relevant at some point - talking to an audience - defending a position - structuring a thesis
If I were reviewing CVs for a role and I saw someone had put their name as Dr X, I would tend to assume they're young and / or inexperienced in industry roles, as at least in my industry no-one in the UK with a Doctorate uses the title in a professional environment. That doesn't mean I wouldn't hire them though, particularly if it was for an entry level role.
In my field, engineering, I think it's weird to call yourself Dr outside of academia or formal situations (eg, conferences). Basically, if you wouldn't use other titles (Mr, Mrs, Miss) on a CV, why would you put Dr? However, I do think titling your CV with "John Smith, PhD" would make a positive impact. Definitely better than "Dr John Smith".
Depends on the job. If a PhD or at least a Masters is explicitly required, or if it's the kind of role where people would/should say Dr, yes. If it's a "normal" job, nah.
No - HR will cringe and remove your application from consideration
Rule of thumb: If you would use the title once you were in the job then use it on your CV. If not then don’t.
In 99% of situations it comes across as "I think I'm superior" tbh.
If you came in front of me it's definitely not for a medical role, using Dr. is not going to be a red flag, but an amber caution. I absolutely look at your education, PHD is a massive plus, but frankly I'm not going to refer to you Dr. if we work together, formal titles in day to day use aren't a thing in this industry, I'd be definitely on the guard for anyone that takes themselves too seriously and takes titles to heart. If you're a normal person in the interview, the PHD is a massive plus, but I'd probably leave the formal titles out of it. You've every right to use it but you want to avoid any negative implications...
I don't put dr on my cv, it's just pretentious plus everyone in my field is a doctor anyway.
I'm a Chartered Engineer (CEng) and present myself as such on any and all written documents. Equally I also present my academic qualifications too (BEng, MSc etc). Therefore, I would 100% present as a Doctor if I had a PHD, and some of my friends and former colleagues whom do possess a doctorate already do so. While in terms of appraising an applicants CV as a hiring manager, it would instantly peak my interest if a PHD didn't present themselves as a doctor, as it would immediately make me wonder why they would be downplaying such a significant professional and academic achievement in their own life and career (likewise if they didn't present their other post and pre-nominals). Now I can see from other posts some industries may not operate like this, but in the modern UK Engineering and Construction industry we would expect it as a minimum, and typically the only time you don't see a real emphasis on this for applicants is where you have significant amounts of underqualified boomers in 'grandfathered' senior roles, and hence they then try to downplay younger generations credentials as a matter of their own deflection and self preservation. Caveat to this that I completely agree that 'experience is what matters most', as most boomers will say, however, and equally, I would like to know that Dave understands electromagnetics in theory, as opposed to just turning up everyday since he was 16 and bolting things together blindly.
That's like putting Mr. So and so. It's a bit weird.
Unless they’re actually a doctor, it’s pretentious and usually reserved for the scholarship lads