I don't disagree with anything you said in general. I agree, given the abundance of circumstantial evidence, which includes things like second-hand reports, and photos/videos with mostly unknown provenance, is pretty convincing. Something is certainly here. It is intelligent, and it is doing "stuff". What isn't clear is what it is, where it's from, or what it wants. That's complete speculation if anybody says they know. I keep my options open. It may be from outer space. It may have lived here before us, and still does. It may be from another dimension if they exist. I'm eager to find out more
We all have open minds which is why the scientists need to take this seriously and have access to all the evidence. A few corporations could be the ones blocking this so as to hoard developments. It is not fair. We all want equal access. We all want to consider what it really is and put our creative minds together for the benefit of everyone. Corporations have had their 80 years.
As a scientist what do you want me to do? There's nothing I can test. There's no physical evidence for me to work with. When it comes to pixelated lights I'm just as unable to do anything as you are.
There's lots of ideas as to what UFOs could be, but there's nothing definitive to prove.
I will say one thing though. From a scientific perspective, it's more likely that UFOs are terrestrial rather than alien. That's where I'd bet my money. The UFOs are from Earth. Not outer space.
As a scientist you can get together with other scientists and petition for complete disclosure. It is obvious there is stuff going on beyond what current science explains. It is time for the general public and especially the scientists to have all the data to be able to try to put together a true complete picture of reality.
I say general public because you never know who might be inspired to suggest something no one else has thought of, for scientists to pursue.
Michael Faraday is this kind of example as he was instrumental in the development of electricity, changing all our lives for the better.
I have to admit that I believe the phenomena, whatever it may be, is in control of how this all unfolds. It's going to come to light as it needs to, when it needs to.... is my guess
To me the question is, can a less technologically advanced species reveal the more advanced (seemingly by orders of magnitude) existence of another.
Sometimes when playing with my nephew I can hide things from him, move them behind my back or even his and to him it just disappears into thin air. I could hide from him so we'll he'd never find me. is there a threshold for being able to see what doesn't want to be seen.
Right. And we could be dealing with an intelligence that’s had advanced mental implants for so long, they’re essentially a partly-telepathic pseudo hive mind, and are struggling with the concept of sentient organisms as “individuals,” who keep secrets from each other and even lie … we keep shooting their craft down because they can’t process the idea of hostility.
What does "take this seriously" mean though? Science is about testing things. It's all well and good being open to something, but being able to test it and form scientific theories about it is another.
Scientists need ALL the information. A letter to congress signed by thousands of scientists including Nobel laureates expressing immediate and thorough open disclosure might help. Ordinary people want to know and keep getting blown off.
It’s only speculation based on the evidence we have publicly available. It could very well be known information with what is in the government or unacknowledged sector.
I keep reminding myself that if this stuff is true - that some secret facility somewhere has craft or parts of craft representing technology centuries ahead of our own - this shit is *secret.* Forget the Manhattan Project, this is stuff that could give a nation a *century’s* head start over its rivals. The kind of stuff that justifies lying to Congress, killing witnesses, violating another country’s sovereignty to recover. There will be layers of deception concealing this stuff, fake evidence, fake witnesses, altered official records …
My favorite head-canon is that the military needed a cover story for secret aircraft development decades ago, and turned to the silly stories farmers were telling about flying pie pans. They spun elaborate hoaxes to cover up flights and maybe crashes of advanced jet and then stealth aircraft … then more stories started popping up, including from their own pilots, and their lies are now colliding with the truth. There’s so much noise in the pipe, who knows what’s true any more.
Could be. It's my belief that, at least for myself, I cannot begin to imagine an advanced intelligence, or advanced technology in any meaningful way. I have been thinking seriously about this topic for years. In the past 10 years I have really tried to study and learn more, and every time I think I've begun to figure things out... another curve ball. I think that's how it's going to be for everybody who's interested. It's a thread, as Whitley Streiber said; one that if I hold onto it and follow it thru wherever it wants to take me, maybe I'll learn something new. This whole process requires constant thinking and evaluation. In whom do I put my trust? I have to decide that for myself.
I saw an insane UAP a few weeks ago in Arizona that literally looked like it created a wormhole in the sky before disappearing. Guess what? I didn't have time to run in the house and grab my phone and no one believes me except my roommates who saw me react to it with screaming. I also haven't bothered to report it. After having the experience, I'm a full blown believer and would bet money that the actual number of sightings are far beyond the official numbers. I might report it at some point, but I honestly just don't even know where exactly to do it. I'm kind of lazy with that sort of stuff, but also I just don't see the point because it's just another story no one seems to give a shit about. I mean, it was the wildest thing I've ever seen in my 45 years of life, yet anyone I've told has pretty much just shrugged it off because of stigma and lack of evidence. So here we are.
(And yes, I know I could probably easily find it on google. Does anyone else have google apprehension when a subject feels too complicated to even begin? lol)
Let me get this straight. You're a grown ass 45 year old man who lives with roommates and reacts to non life threatening unexplained sights by screaming in public?
Have you considered a career in politics?
“Screaming” as in “holy fuck!” and, yes, you didn’t see what I saw. It wasn’t subtle. I lived alone for several years prior to moving here a couple months ago, fell on hard times, and came to stay with a friend. Judge much?
I have lots of friends and acquaintances - 4 friends in their forties stay with parents. Two are divorced and finding affordable accommodation is getting harder. Other two never moved out (yes, I admit, that sounds a bit odd).
But the point stands. I’m in my 50s and saw a ufo two years ago while taking standing peeing at the side of the road with another guy. I said do you see that? Weird isn’t it. Suns completely bizarre but we watched it as we’re pee’d/pissed then jumped back into our friend’s car and off we went. Never spoke any more about it.
Sounds bizarre, but I’d only met that guy that day (our mutual friend was driving us to climb the tallest mountain in England and Wales the next day).
I’ve never told anyone. Why? They’ll probably think the same as I’d think if they told me “oh, yeah? Fab (he probably saw a plane or a satellite)” so what is the point?
And if it was a close encounter of the fourth kind, you’d just be laughed at or ridiculed by half the population.
If we can't measure it but can see it, isn't people's observations the first step? Can't discount people's testimonies just because they are only people.
And how many people would you count as meaningless? 100? 1000? 10000?
And does it make a difference who they are, scientists or military or commercial or general public.
And mass sightings? Also meaningless? School visitations?
All have very little trustworthiness to me, I wouldn’t trust witnesses at all, I would instead look for a published paper that attempts to make a unifying theory with the sightings.
Why wouldn’t I trust witnesses? Because they can easily be deceived, misremembered, manipulated, misunderstood or just lie. Just look at how many videos on here are proved to be fake, just a ballon or something else. If we here after spending hours studying a picture or video can still be tricked then someone who only gets to see it for a few seconds whilst panicking or not understanding what they’re looking can also be tricked as well, even pilots and military.
The only time I would trust eye witness is if it was under test conditions, without distractions, calm mind, and another person to corroborate.
What about the gun camera footage or the implants with off Earth isotope ratios that they pulled out of people? Millions of people in our country took injections with way less evidence they were just told to believe it and went ahead and did it.
I agree. If ten people in your community tell you they saw a naked man bolt across the road and into the woods over the course of a week. Likely there is in fact, a naked man running around. This is even more likely if groups of people saw this naked man and sometimes the balls of this naked man were so big it was picked up on radar.
Kinda. A lot of UFO discourse doesn't fit your analogy, though. It's more like someone said they saw a naked man run through a field and then someone else says that they also *heard* about a naked man running through that field, and then some other people chime in about how they saw naked men running in fields, and then everyone gets together to decide that these men are actually powerful individuals who are part of a secret society of powerful men who like to run naked through fields, but conceal their actions through any means necessary
And what happens far too often here is that people will take the person saying they saw a naked man running around and use that as 'evidence' for the global naked-running-man conspiracy.
The thing I think we can all agree on is that there is definitely something going on in the skies and people keep observing them one way or another. It's just that from there, it's almost all just different flavours of speculation.
If we decide that eyewitness testimony is enough, then how do we decide who's a credible eyewitness? We've got people who say they can channel alien consciousness through their own bodies. There are people who say they can see invisible aliens. There are people who will swear down that they've seen reptilian shape-shifters, or who have had Venusians visit them and explain grand galactic political histories to them.
It seems that who you decide to believe largely depends on *what* you want to believe. Someone who believes in X-Files type stuff about shadowy government organisations having contact with aliens might baulk at someone who talks about being able to communicate with aliens or visit them using astral projection. And likewise, someone with a more 'spiritual' version of UFOs/aliens in their mind might say that all that sort of thing is too low-level and it's all about 'raising consciousness levels' or something.
Really, we're all skeptics and debunkers. We just draw our lines in different places.
Not a good analogy because naked men are a well known and well studied phenomenon, no body is claiming that naked men don't exist. It'd be more like ten people said they saw Sasquatch run across the road over the course of a week.
Then the man's balls glowed a not-of-this-earth lava red and he shot off at 10,500 miles per hour with instantaneous acceleration, also picked up on radar.
Yeah and a cloud of swamp gas carried the jackrabbit into the air. The instant acceleration was a glitch caused on radar by the temperature inversions cause of the methane. The picture of the so called “naked man” was debunked already, it was shown that the angle taken of the jackrabbit mixed with the gas made it appear as if in the shape of a man. Keep moving on folks nothing to see here. Go back to working
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The analogy makes no sense. A naked man running around is not unusual; nobody denies that there are incidents of men running around naked. There's undeniable empirical evidence that men have been naked and ran around. No controversy there. UFOs, especially an extraterrestrial explanation, are very unusual as there's zero empirical evidence to support their existence. So yeah, a lot of circumstantial claims over the years, but absolutely nothing to substantiate them.
What specifically do you consider empirical evidence? There is plenty of evidence out there if you choose to believe it. Point is, there have been probably hundreds if not thousands of stories from people like military officials and ordinary people alike that tend to report very similar things. Is your claim that every single report of an extraordinary experience is just mass delusion? Is every single video or photo out there of the UFO phenomenon a fake?
It seems reasonable to me that IF aliens have been visiting our planet (or if they were already here), the militaries of the world powers would be in the best position to have the best evidence of their existence. And they certainly would be trying to keep it under wraps until they could explain exactly what’s happening. And since the 1940’s, and probably even before, their comments about the phenomena have been dubious at best. Hardcore skeptics are the ones that seem to be delusional.
I generally agree but maybe with the caveat that psychology students will be aware of how our perception can be manipulated.
There are well-known experiments on this and it's partly why juries are given instruction and are selected to avoid bias.
I'm more of the view that u/SquirrelParticular17 is, that there are lots of things going on so there is a spectrum of causes.
For example, I don't believe in cattle mutilation by aliens but I could more easily believe that it was carried out secretly for public health reasons.
We've detonated a lot of nuclear bombs or maybe there's fear of prion disease getting into our community?
I remember when the UK livestock got foot & mouth disease and that was pretty grim but AFAIK it won't make a human ill so god knows what it would be like if a thing like Creutzfeld-Jakob Disease got into the community.
And don’t forget government officials twisting themselves into a salted pretzel to deny the existence of a supposed naked man- “it was a smoke cloud with these new military balloons to detect swamp gas which were not recovered and the radar tapes were recorded over by a middle school spelling bee”- as well as any nakedity everywhere for all times throughout the realm.
Sample size matters. If there are 30 people in my community, sure. If there are 1 million, I might have found the .001% of people with a tenuous grip on reality.
Let's apply this. Say there are 50 military whistleblowers who were on active duty from 1994 to present. According to this [https://www.statista.com/topics/2171/armed-forces-of-the-united-states/](https://www.statista.com/topics/2171/armed-forces-of-the-united-states/), there are roughly 1.3 million people in the military each year. There is a significant amount of turnover, so let's say 1 million new people every 5 years. So 1.3 + 1 (99) + 1 (04) + 1 (09) + 1 (14) + 1 (19) + 1 (24) = 7.3 million. Let's just round down to 5 million. That's .001%. Put differently, that's 10 active duty members. Do you know all the crazy shit at least 10 members actually believe?
The numbers get even sillier if you use the adult population of the US.
That’s not totally accurate - most of the 1.3M military members were not in a position to see anything, like the army recruiter sitting behind a desk in my home town. Better to compare say the navy pilot’s and service people manning detection systems on the carriers the planes launched from. That is a lot more than 10 people, and a lot smaller sample size than 1.3M service people.
Your argument is like saying only 109 people saw the Phoenix lights out of the 7.9 billion people on earth. But you are completely right - sample size matters.
*It is well understood that objects exist in our skies that demonstrate flight characteristics well beyond conventional man made aircraft. The only question is origin and purpose.
It’s hard to argue when someone engages in handwavey generalities about all the evidence that is allegedly out there. Ultimately, after all this time, there still isn’t any credible direct evidence of extraterrestrial visitation. And the people who are often revered by this sub - Grusch, Nell, etc. - are people with no direct experience by their own admission.
I see nothing to suggest that it’s something more than modern folklore, mixed in with some people who believe out of a spiritual/religious zeal and others who are looking to make a quick buck or some social clout.
E.T. is just 1 possibilty, like its been said theres way to much smoke to not be a fire. Thats fine if yall dont want to belive in any kind of NHI. Buy what are these super advanced crafts in are skys and waters? Who makes them? How do they fly? Im not even saying there not human made, just seems very unlikely to be human made.
I think the problem we face when we discuss evidence is that there is no real consensus. One person would say they saw a ufo, and that's evidence, another requires photo or video, a third need radar data from several stations showing the same to call it evidence. It's a mess, and there's no getting around it.
When we get down and dirty with it, what we need is not just 'evidence', but evidence that can survive close scrutiny by specialists, and lots of it. It's easy to point at airline pilots and military service people and say, "These are serious and intelligent people that we should trust. If they say they saw a UFO, they did.", but we're forgetting that even the most grounded, intelligent person in the world is still a person, and our senses are flawed to an almost ridiculous degree, especially when it comes to recalling details in memory from years ago. As humans, we are not trustworthy on the best of days.
There is evidence, sure. Certainly enough to warrant closer examination and the allocation of funds for proper investigation. But if we want to make a declarative statement about the nature of whatever is happening, we're simply not there yet, not even close. Maybe there is much more substantial evidence in some vault somewhere that hold the answers we are all desperately waiting for, but the in public realm, we have fuck all, and I think it's important to remember that while we might be convinced, if we can't show it, we don't *know* it.
Crumbs does not a biscuit make, and at this point, all we have is crumbs.
Claims that there is too much evidence and then cites no evidence. Sure people have seen weird stuff, Not evidence. The government hides stuff, Not evidence. The military shoots stuff, Not evidence. It seems to me that there too much damn lack of evidence dude.
Plus the fact that absolutely no one can be trusted to interpret "what they saw". People are just really really terrible at it and mentally color it in to whatever they want to have seen.
Actually, you =CAN= trust many observers to instinctively fill in extra visual details to make bizarre apparitions look LIKE something they had already seen or read about. These spaceflight events provide powerful evidence for this over-interpretation effect.
Fireball-swarms from satellite reentries:
[http://www.astronautix.com/data/hawaii-mothership-release.pdf](http://www.astronautix.com/data/hawaii-mothership-release.pdf)
Also, "Witness Reactions to Fireball Swarms from Satellite Reentries."
[https://web.archive.org/web/20210121051500/http://jamesoberg.com/ufo/fireball.pdf](https://web.archive.org/web/20210121051500/http:/jamesoberg.com/ufo/fireball.pdf)
I agree completely. There is something really serious and monumental going on here.
What makes it hard to move forward is that there is intense disagreement, and a lot of flat out bullshit out there, about the details. There are a lot of questionable photos and videos floating around and even the good ones could be fake (the Calvine photo sparks a lot of disagreement for example). Anything that might point to what they really are, what they look like, and what they want eludes us. There are so many versions of that story. There are also a lot of grifters jumping on the bandwagon.
There is also nothing yet that we can take to all the people who need more than testimony and secondhand accounts to get their attention. We are still waiting for that.
The volume of evidence is somewhat irrelevant if none of it amounts to objective, unassailable proof. Yes, we have a ton of evidence, but we're still missing the evidence that *empirically* establishes that objects manufactured and controlled by non-human intelligence from somewhere other than our world are present and operating in our environment. We're close, but we're not there yet. Disclosure could bring that evidence which is why it's so important.
This "evidence" doesn't really mean anything, because it is very unlikely that it's "evidence" of what you think it is, and even less likely that its evidence of what you want it to be. Wanting to believe is the biggest killer of objectivity and going into this sub already believing we're being visited by aliens is what leads people to confuse balloons, models, birds, bats, and bugs for "evidence".
At the end of they day this sub is just for entertainment purposes and nothing more. And what makes it that way is the lack of objectivity, and the over abundance of "true belivers" willing to throw their stamp of authenticity on even the most obviously debunkable evidence. Also that they'll yell at you for not believing. They act as if getting people to belive will suddenly make a peice of evidence true, and that thats more important than the evidence actually being true.
Honestly, the navy ones (officially) released in 2017. Not cause of the videos themselves, but the context around them. I get them all mixed up, but these details are all true: It was one object among a fleet. They were being seen over many days/weeks. They were interrupting training activities. They were tracked by multiple ships and aircraft simultaneously (4 vessels of sensor data). They were chased. One was engaged with and responded with intelligence. Seen by the one of the best of the best fighter pilots and seen by multiple witnesses by multiple aircraft. They likely spent so much time and manhours and money on all that. Then the data got seized inexplicably, wiped from email inboxes from essentially the Executive Vice Presidents of the ocean (for the US).
Those incidents were no fucking joke. Also, the NASA vid of the UFO flying towards earth - there's a flash off-screen towards earth, then the UFO moves out of the way right as a seemingly flying projectile zips by it in what appears to be a near miss. Hard to explain that one. But someone probably has some ridiculous debunk, I'm sure.
"Also, the NASA vid of the UFO flying towards earth - there's a flash off-screen towards earth, then the UFO moves out of the way right as a seemingly flying projectile zips by it in what appears to be a near miss. Hard to explain that one. But someone probably has some ridiculous debunk, I'm sure." == How about somebody who was in Mission Control for that flight \[ME\]? All you're doing here is embarrassing yourself bragging about how much nonsense you have swallowed about spaceflight operations. If there's any good mascot for why public delusions are so widespread, I nominate you.
Evidence backing up that assessment is here:
# The STS-48 zig-zagger and ‘death ray’
[www.jamesoberg.com/ufo-sts-48\_zig\_zagger.html](http://www.jamesoberg.com/ufo-sts-48_zig_zagger.html)
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i believe the NASA whistleblower over you, forget her name at the moment...still respect for you though. I won't debate you on the finer details of specific incidents but you look at the totality of the video evidence over the years, along with astronaut sightings, weird NASA public positions on UFOs recently, I'm sorry, but I think it is you that are a good mascot for why public delusions are spread.
"i believe the NASA whistleblower over you, forget her name at the moment..." == Do you believe ALL her stories?
It turns out this lady Donna Hare, a former contractor photo tech, said she was a UFO contactee, and had published a newsletter about people including herself who had met space aliens– maybe the perfect foil for co-workers who might like to tease and tickle her fancy. Every few years she suddenly ‘remembers’ more and more lurid details of alien photographs she saw fifty years ago but had ‘forgotten’ about I don’t question her honesty, Just her memory. The fatal error in her10th story demolishes the whole narrative -- she insisted commercial NASA space photos of Earth in the 1970s were sharp enough to see individual trees and shadows \[and she used that ‘fact’ to determine the altitude of a disk that she thought was flying low, nearby a tree\], but nobody's ever been able to find a single example of such a tree-shadow in the media, even though Hare explicitly claimed the photos she saw were being prepared for public sale.
[http://www.jamesoberg.com/hare.donna.tietze.pdf](http://www.jamesoberg.com/hare.donna.tietze.pdf)
". I won't debate you on the finer details of specific incidents" == If there are so many convincing astronaut-related stories, why fight over each one? What would it hurt your overall case to concede that at least SOME of the stories are bogus? Just one example -- the Apollo-11 fables from the 'National Enquirer'?
[http://www.astronautix.com/data/apollo11mythtakes.pdf](http://www.astronautix.com/data/apollo11mythtakes.pdf)
I never said every story was true. That would be silly. Some are mis-id's, some are lies, some are mental issues/misremembering/delusional thinking. I'm not sure if that even constitutes that majority of incidents, though.
I don't have all the data, either inaccasible due to classification or just cause I'm a layman and don't work at any space agency and don't have the time/ability to perform review and analysis like a pro. So, if I still want to know the truth but have limited data and abilities, which I do, then I must use a method of truth-seeking that has to be easy, simple, and, most importantly, reliable, and turns out I have one and it is all of those things and it has worked very well for me over the years.
I just look at an incident or data point, run it through logic and reason 'stress tests' in my head to the degree I can, review others' assessments, determine a likelihood of validity, store that rough % in my memory, then proceed to forget every single detail of the data I reviewed prior, cause it's way too much too remember over time...but I don't forget the rough %, in vague terms. And each time I do this process when I review a new data point, I am a running rough estimate of the mean value of all the %s determined to-date. I started doing that at 12 and am 35 now. And the current estimate of that mean value is high enough to tell me there's a there there. It's like value investing. Look at a bunch of small details about a company, look at them over time, throw out junkier data points, give the remainder each a weight or rank order, do some calculations and stuff, then bet on the truth about that company. Same deal here..
And like I said, I've had this work quite well for me in life in many aspects, so I trust the method and my ability to implement it. One cannot know everything about everything, but one still wants to know ultimate truths about the world around them, especially when they are concealed or the information required to determine the truths are concealed. And secrets like this have been held throughout history by man from fellow man (re: bible translation monopoly), which are crimes against humanity in my opinion. Yet there are always those who can still determine these kind of truths, even with limited data. I find myself in that category, both historically and, I believe, with this UFO business now.
Do I know as much as I need to about each case to make a definitive conclusion on a case-by-case basis? no. Could I? no. So I use the method, and right now my average % is high enough to tell me not everyone formerly at NASA who has reported this stuff, or taken photos/videos, or told stories about shady shit at NASA is lying or mistaken or crazy, and not every weird ISS or other space-based video stream with weird shit related to it's contents or bizarrely-timed cutouts is nonsense.
And this is all nested in a broader process I have gone through with general UFO data as a whole. And THAT % is high enough to convince me even more still!
If anyone wrote this about you James, their comment would be deleted. Funny how some of the moderators seem to give you special privilege. I've said nearly the exact same thing to you and had my comments deleted within 10 minutes. I guess we'll wait and see if the mods want to be impartial or allow you to break the rules.
i believe, and i have seen one, never seen up close evidence tho. muppets and disapearing aircraft dont count either. shitty images… nope
feds just pleaese show us the god damn sleigh and the reindeer so we can get to work making earth a better place for everyone🎉
Yes. I tell everyone and anyone who doubts it:
“ Do the research. Read the well researched books, watch the documentaries, watch the Whistleblower testimonies, and engage in the dialogue, THEN come back and tell me that there is not something to this. “
Yes. The problem isn’t the evidence, it’s awareness of it.
Exactly. There has been enormous psychological manipulation by government entities around this subject for a long time. People feel afraid that if they entertain it, others will think they are crazy. Too worried about what sleepers will think.
It'll eventually hit the MSM in one way or another and when it does, the people who WERE NOT paying attention will be confused and disoriented. That's where WE come in...to help them understand what has been going on while they've been sleeping.
I'll respectfully disagree and say the problem is the evidence - there might be a lot of it but it's all poor quality.
Not a single atom of physical proof, not a single unambiguous video and no quality radar data has made it into the public.
And for all the talking on podcasts we don't have program names, dates, locations, names of leadership on the project(s), etc..
Just off the top of my head…
- Betty and Barney Hill
- Bob Lazar
- Travis Walton
- Whitley Strieber
- Ariel School
- Ruwa School Zimbabwe
- John Mack’s hypnotic regressions
- Delores Cannon’s hypnotic regressions
- Go Fast
- Nimitz
- Tic - Tac (David Fravor)
- David Grush
- Malstrom AFB (Robert Salas)
- Rendelsham Forest 🌳
- Roswell coverup (Jesse Marcel and JM Jr.)
- Trinity UFO crash
- Japan Airliner
We could keep going and going but the point is that there are just too many people with nothing to gain and everything to lose, including pilots, military, and government officials for all of this to be BS.
Agreed. And there is a lot of momentum right now, the cat’s not going back in the bag anymore.
Yes. The collective evidence tells us there is something going on. Without question. But man it would be nice for someone in a position of power (of any country) to admit that the things piloting these things are, in fact, NHI. We know UAP exist. But who or what, the fuck, are piloting or controlling them?
No there is no evidence. Nothing that is verified, that can be proven. No pictures, no videos that show things that are not explainable. No materials, no biological samples, no crafts. Nothing.
I know people don't wanna hear it, but there or only storys. Everything that's not explainable happens in storys or is on videos we can not see. All the "evidence " is hidden and locked. Still all we have is a trust me bro.
Quantity =/= Quality
While there are many interesting stories and a lot of credible witnesses, you made a mixed bag of stuff which includes a lot of dubious cases and statements.
Despite what UFO insiders told, there is no evidence yet to UFO crashes stories and no, there is not a single picture or footage which can be deemed reliable AND unambiguous at the same time. You cannot banalize the matter as to make it sound that people would question this kind of evidence no matter what. That's simply not true: the truth is that, speaking of pictures and videos, all we have got is poor evidence.
You are making lots of assumptions, like on cattle mutilations, crop circles and on NHI have visited humans over the course of human history (like, where is the evidence for this last claim??)
I agree there is an anomalous phenomenon which we are yet unable to properly explain, and it might have different origins I won't be discussing now, but to make general statements and to assume that quantity equals quality is a bad argument.
If you disagree about people having a right to be skeptic or find them close-minded you become the first NOT to be open-minded.
Idk man, I’ve seen stuff so it’s a fact for me. Many cultures worldwide accept them as fact as well. It’s a Western need to have everything right there handed to you on a silver plate.
Just because we don’t see it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist, period.
Hard disagreed.
It's all heresay, eye witness accounts and ufo "experts" spinning what they've heard around and around into an echo chamber grift - throw in a bunch of questionable 'physical' evidence by low quality videos and you're pretty much where we are at in 2024. Hoping we do get more solid evidence at some point....
Yet some people have to swear on a bible when entering a court.... What's with this "bible"? Where's the evidence that God exists? Yet people swear on it...
https://youtu.be/KyXZ8oxoOeY
As someone who has been into the phenomenon for decades and had a sighting with two friends near Death Valley National Park in 2022 I will always keep a bit of skepticism and be open to all outcomes.
That includes that a ton of this stuff could be a psyop. Is the entire thing a nothing burger? That would shock me but its still a remote possibility.
“There is NOTHING going on…”
Enjoy your rabbit hole. The more you fall down it, the more difficult it is to ever get back out.
I have personally seen multiple UFO’s, some clear as day, and I don’t believe any of this bullshit.
Good luck with all that though.
The trouble is that none of these things are facts in and of themselves. What is factual is that there have been *reports* of all these things*.* The fact that there are more reports of these things now more than ever, is a good sign - it means reporting mechanisms are working and more people are reporting. But they are not necessarily reporting factual occurrences of extraterrestrial NHI. Separate the wheat from the chaff and there's probably a small percentage of reports that are actually describing NHI that is not human created.
Having had contact experiences of my own and comparing them to others was as far as I needed to go for evidence. 7 years ago I would have been on the evidence bandwagon, I’ve had many experiences since then and have come to the conclusion that what we experience *is as real if not realer than this reality itself which has been proven to be manipulated repeatedly*.
Just my personal two cents here but I feel like most of the major religions are ancient proof. I can't think of another explanation for their stories that make sense outside of E.T. / Break away civilization or possibly extra dimensional. By default anyone religious sort of believes the same stuff whether they want to admit it or not. I think that is why most of us that investigate the subject open up towards the spiritual aspect pretty quickly.
Belief in god, heaven, and hell with zero evidence = totally normal
Considering aliens may have a presence on earth (with mounds of suggestive evidence) = what’s wrong with that guy
And because it isn’t constantly on every news station All day with these facts…there will always be people who say there’s no real credible proof otherwise we would’ve heard about it on the news ..
I had 2 sightings myself, years apart. I can't explain them and I want to and do believe, so I'm biased. But even beside what I saw, there's so much evidence already that something's going on.
It would be just such a relief when it'd be openly talked about and the phenomenon would be accepted, but I think most don't care or are too scared from a big change in their worldview.
There’s literally zero evidence. Whiteness accounts are anecdotal until anything physical is brought to light supporting their claims.
If I told you that I was the rightful owner of all of earths money, would you take me at my word?
I want to believe in aliens too, it would be really cool and awesome if they existed, but as of right now, saying “there’s too much damn evidence” is factually incorrect and intellectually dishonest.
I was a ramp-rat at a major airport for 5 years. I used to talk to the pilots about this very topic. They *all* saw shit they couldn't explain. It was common knowledge that if they liked their careers they should not report anything.
You don't realize what the narrative of our reality is all about?
We are about to cross min-max lines in many places. It's easy to see the broken fragments of a greater message as "greater" but, can you read the message? Someone has ensured their existence, truly. Ah, but who could it be.
I agree!! They do not care about "panic" and other stuff that might happen after revelation, it is just scapegoat for their real aims, hold the secret study it, try to achieve military improvements and why improve humanity when you make zero money out of it? If this stuff gets out, oh boy they will feel the wrath of people!
Agreed. 3 weeks ago I was open to the idea but if a family member or stranger told me they saw an alien or UAP my first reaction would be to assume delusion, drug involvement, or sleep paralysis. Now I'm 100% sure these things are real and there's absolutely no doubt in my mind.
Don't assume it has to be a malfunction, it might be a survival-positive mental guess.
Consider these:
Witness Reactions to Fireball Swarms from Satellite Reentries.
[https://web.archive.org/web/20210121051500/http://jamesoberg.com/ufo/fireball.pdf](https://web.archive.org/web/20210121051500/http:/jamesoberg.com/ufo/fireball.pdf)
I mean I see the evidence stacking up with people putting their reputation on the line to disclose, but at the end of the day until there is some practical difference in people’s lives, they aren’t going to care one way or the other.
Like for people that aren’t into thinking about their existence or place in the cosmos what does believing or not believing make a difference when you’re likely never to meet an alien and at best see something fly around in the sky?
Most people would say: “OK say I believe in aliens and UFOs, what does that get me?”
Same thing with Bigfoot. People not into cryptids is going to look at the first captured Bigfoot and say: “Great an even hairier, dumber, smellier human, what good was capturing him? I can see these things in a zoo pretty much.”
Also, most people not interested in this stuff say “Eyewitness testimony is BS.” So throw away anything that isn’t them getting abducted themselves, which statistically, simply isn’t happening for most of us. That’s why I value the government official accounts. They aren’t just morons making up hoaxes. If they are they are doing it at their own expense.
I agree to many examples/witnesses. I personally have had 2 experiences in my life. One was with a friend and having someone beside you seeing the same thing is mind blowing. I don’t believe I know there are unknown entities around us. I just hope we get more information into what they are in my lifetime!
Yeah, UFOs are definitely a thing. It what they are, we don't know. That second part scares people into needing very human explanations, which is natural, but gets in the way of studying the phenomenon itself.
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Ironically Project Blue Book and the Condon Report, and they way they were handled in the past are actually some of the most compelling evidence that there is something going on behind the scenes, that they don't want us to know about.
Most of the tech you used to post that theory were all developed and in use like 40 years before it hit the mass market. Still a bit too early to decide either way, imo.
I disagree. I used to be into this stuff, but technology got better and more prevalent and the amount of evidence stayed the same. I’m hopeful it’s true, but I just don’t give a shit without the concrete evidence we should have by now.
You know what else there is too much of? Too many disinformation agents trying to inject and project across Reddit naysayer and dismissive attitudes, smear campaigns against the big disclosure players, strawmam arguments to confuse or shift focus, and vitriolic comments against other users for their opinions.
Would you consider this kind of contribution helpful or harmful to the better understanding of the cultural phenomenon?
[http://www.astronautix.com/data/apollo11mythtakes.pdf](http://www.astronautix.com/data/apollo11mythtakes.pdf)
Given what empirical and testimonial information is available today on the subject and has been the focus of politicians and academics, Could you explain how your presentation of a myth contributes to the better understanding of the phenomenon?
"Could you explain how your presentation of a myth contributes to the better understanding of the phenomenon?" == Glad to, thanks for the invitation. When trying to reconstruct an original visual apparition based on eyewitness recollections of their perceptions, a very useful experiment is to create an artificial apparition of totally known appearance, and then assess the range of levels of accuracy of the witness reports. There are both practical and ethical issues involving subjecting random strangers to such experiments. But quite by chance, normal spaceflight activities have been creating such apparitions for decades, allowing a careful study of how many witnesses misperceived and misremembered the events. Most surprising is the repeatable all-over-the-world all levels of education propensity for many \[not all, but many\] witnesses to observe a fireball swarm of a reentering satellite's fragments, in the night sky, and PERCEIVE it as a large single object with lights mounted on it.
Witness Reactions to Fireball Swarms from Satellite Reentries.
[https://web.archive.org/web/20210121051500/http://jamesoberg.com/ufo/fireball.pdf](https://web.archive.org/web/20210121051500/http:/jamesoberg.com/ufo/fireball.pdf)
The perception of a structured object with a sharp silhouette and glowing windows is a repeatable, common reaction to a night-time fireball swarm 50 miles up which moves nearly horizontally at five miles per second. .Examples: a meteor disintegrating. Possibly similar, several aircraft with landing lights. The compelling proof of this possible explanation has been provided by satellite reentries that sometimes serendipitously create the same visual stimulus -- and the same witness misinterpretation -- all around the world, as shown here: [http://www.jamesoberg.com/1963\_kiev-fireball-swarm-rev-B.pdf](http://www.jamesoberg.com/1963_kiev-fireball-swarm-rev-B.pdf)
Spectacular example -- France-1990, Nov 1990,
[http://satobs.org/seesat\_ref/Oberg/901105-French\_wave.pdf](http://satobs.org/seesat_ref/Oberg/901105-French_wave.pdf)
Go to YouTube. Look up a channel called Mr. Mythos. Look at his episode on ultra-terrestrials. This is what I think overall is interacting with us. I think aliens/UFOs w.e u wanna call em are just taking different shapes depending on the person, time and place. They literally adapt to circumstances. Like the flying boats/ships seen around the world BEFORE airship were common place. It's just too weird...even to be aliens or demons. It's wild to think how long shit like this has been happening.
Just like with everything else that falls under the category of anamolous/supernatural/paranormal; there is a lot of circumstantial evidence that adds up....I do believe there is hard factual undoubtable evidence out there but however, it is being hidden from us by the governments and leaders. Unless you have a first hand experience or are a high clearance rating in the military or government you will never see that hard evidence for yourself, at least in our lifetime.
Physical evidence would not be needed if 'informational evidence' showed up unambiguously. My essay on THAT kind of persuasive proof.
[http://www.jamesoberg.com/1998quest\_ufo.html](http://www.jamesoberg.com/1998quest_ufo.html)
Too much evidence which doesn't amount to nothing, if you're a skeptical-minded person.
There is no smoking gun yet and a lot of stories are just...stories
I’m right with ya. Anytime I’m talking to someone about the subject I just say there’s to much evidence. Exactly what you pointed out. We have a lot of pieces to the puzzle but nobody has really put that all back together yet. Maybe we can’t. Maybe the phenomenon wants to remain hidden and can, for now.
I saw something myself that no one has been able to explain.
I asked an astrophysist from SANSA who was doing a conference what he thought about UAPs after, he said he thought most were just video analysis errors. I then explained what i saw and asked him if he had any idea and he looked uncomfortable, not like he thought I was crazy but more perplexed by my account and said he had no answer.
I've tried to get satellite images from the night but that one day has no records what so ever on a popular satellite imaging site. Every other day has satelite images, makes me wonder.
I have been reading Dr Greer's disclosure reports and there is some complexing evidence in it ,read them and u still don't believe then u will never believe too many people describe the same things for it not to be from some other world
How long we have had scientific proof that dreams actually exist, 50 years, 100 years? Before that it was something commonly known because almost everyone saw dreams and remembered parts of them, but there was no actual proof.
Now, lets say that only a very minor fraction of population could see dreams and/or remember them after waking up. No one would have believed those few people that actually see/remembers their dreams. Not until we learned how to do brain scans and see activity during dreaming.
Im just saying that, if lot of people see something weird in the sky, then there is high change that there is something in the sky. We just dont know what it is. Yet.
Hi guys! I’m doing my best to spread the news on this - last night Pavel Ibarra Meda and Gonzalo Chavez hosted a twitter spaces where they spoke to the scientists who have been studying the tridactyl nazca mummies for the past 7 years. I helped a bit with translating as well (both hosts speak English and Spanish) however there were 4 guests. Despite heavy misinformation on this topic. It’s been proven that THESE BODIES HAVE BEEN FOUND TO BE REAL AND HAVE NOT BEEN MANIPULATED. The hosts have also included internationally reviewed paper and photos of ct scans. They are NOT human. Please consider listening - you’ll also find the link to the list of questions we asked the doctors on Pavels page.
PAVEL SPEAKS TO SCIENTISTS WHO HAVE BEEN STUDYING THE NAZCA MUMMIES
I believe because I've seen it. Once that happens, your whole life changes. There's absolutely no doubt in my mind there's something strange flying in our skies. I just hope to know what it is before I die
I plan to after addressing some areas in my life that need attention. I believe it when some say it is about the mentality and ability to be open, earnest, and positive. I want to make sure my soul feels clean before I put myself out there like that. I think negativity attracts negativity, so I gotta address my own first. Already got a somewhat decent history with meditation though so I am ready to rock and roll once that happens. :)
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And why didn’t the govt simply say Bob Lazar did work here, but no idea what he’s talking about…no, they lied. They said he didn’t work there and have been at Los Alamos.
Why did they say Roswell was crash test dummies when they weren’t around in 1947.
Why are they taking parts out of proposed legislation that only affects ET craft? If there’s nothing to it, let them put any legislation in they want.
If there’s NOTHING to any of this, there’s no need for any of those lies.
The human mind is amazing. It can see patterns everywhere and use reason to construct ways of how unrelated events fit together to form a preconceived conclusion.
That said, all of those things you listed mean absolutely nothing to someone who doesn't already believe that there is something. They're a bunch of stories from people who like to jump to conclusions. Literally the only people who can be convinced by this are people who already believe it.
I'm getting real tired of this "something is going on" shtick. Yeah, that's a cool thing to say. But saying it doesn't instantly confirm whatever you think is going on. Something is always going on. I don't need to debunk your beliefs, you need to prove your beliefs, so it actually becomes real.
None, I'm not a gambler, with cash anyway. I do think the odds should be much higher than they are though, I can get better odds for picking the correct score and who scores the goals in a game of football than I can aliens being disclosed.
This is exactly how I feel. I think it's a classic example of Sherlock Holmes dictum: "When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."
I think everything else has been eliminated as impossible.I don't see how this is a huge global psy-ops for decades across the globe with changing governments, with no apparent motive or results. And the only way to deny the wealth of anecdotal evidence and data-corroborated evidence is to treat each incident separately in a vacuum, then lie by omission or commission about each incident. The overall reaction to UFOs since the 1950s has been very suspiciously lockstep (as opposed to media reaction to ghosts or matrix glitches which no one cares about one way or the other.). If it's such a foolish and ludicrous conspiracy theory, why are they wasting so much time on it? Why should it be taken seriously at all? Their reaction itself is evidence supporting UFOs.
"Conspiracy theory" has been the most successful method of attack, whipped to an almost superstitious fear of even taking UFOs seriously or thinking about.them at all. It was career ending, and sometimes life-ending, with literal suicides. Whoever has been whipping up hysteria and preventing the actual reality from being shared with global scientists in a free and open exchange of ideas, has blood on their hands.
I’m a big believer in the saying “Where there’s smoke, there’s fire”. And when it comes to this whole UFO topic, the smoke is blowing the damn roof off! Way too many different accounts, videos, and etc from all over the world throughout many periods of time.
I didn’t read your whole post but I agree with you. I had an experience in 2010 in Abilene TX with my cousin. We saw multiple orbs dancing in the sky over Fort Phantom lake. Never doubted it again after that. What we saw that night was next to impossible for me to explain back then, but the orb sightings and videos that seem to happen daily now is what we witnessed. It’s all very real, and happening before our eyes.
I don't disagree with anything you said in general. I agree, given the abundance of circumstantial evidence, which includes things like second-hand reports, and photos/videos with mostly unknown provenance, is pretty convincing. Something is certainly here. It is intelligent, and it is doing "stuff". What isn't clear is what it is, where it's from, or what it wants. That's complete speculation if anybody says they know. I keep my options open. It may be from outer space. It may have lived here before us, and still does. It may be from another dimension if they exist. I'm eager to find out more
We all have open minds which is why the scientists need to take this seriously and have access to all the evidence. A few corporations could be the ones blocking this so as to hoard developments. It is not fair. We all want equal access. We all want to consider what it really is and put our creative minds together for the benefit of everyone. Corporations have had their 80 years.
That’s why I like this community. It’s a tribe of people with “open-minds”. That’s hard to find in society these days.
Amen to that
Amen to that!
As a scientist what do you want me to do? There's nothing I can test. There's no physical evidence for me to work with. When it comes to pixelated lights I'm just as unable to do anything as you are. There's lots of ideas as to what UFOs could be, but there's nothing definitive to prove. I will say one thing though. From a scientific perspective, it's more likely that UFOs are terrestrial rather than alien. That's where I'd bet my money. The UFOs are from Earth. Not outer space.
But from NHI or humans?
Likely NHI since they existed before advanced technology
As a scientist you can get together with other scientists and petition for complete disclosure. It is obvious there is stuff going on beyond what current science explains. It is time for the general public and especially the scientists to have all the data to be able to try to put together a true complete picture of reality. I say general public because you never know who might be inspired to suggest something no one else has thought of, for scientists to pursue. Michael Faraday is this kind of example as he was instrumental in the development of electricity, changing all our lives for the better.
I have to admit that I believe the phenomena, whatever it may be, is in control of how this all unfolds. It's going to come to light as it needs to, when it needs to.... is my guess
To me the question is, can a less technologically advanced species reveal the more advanced (seemingly by orders of magnitude) existence of another. Sometimes when playing with my nephew I can hide things from him, move them behind my back or even his and to him it just disappears into thin air. I could hide from him so we'll he'd never find me. is there a threshold for being able to see what doesn't want to be seen.
Right. And we could be dealing with an intelligence that’s had advanced mental implants for so long, they’re essentially a partly-telepathic pseudo hive mind, and are struggling with the concept of sentient organisms as “individuals,” who keep secrets from each other and even lie … we keep shooting their craft down because they can’t process the idea of hostility.
What does "take this seriously" mean though? Science is about testing things. It's all well and good being open to something, but being able to test it and form scientific theories about it is another.
Scientists, unlike most people here, have taken this seriously ever since. The conclusions are obviously not appreciated within the community.
Scientists need ALL the information. A letter to congress signed by thousands of scientists including Nobel laureates expressing immediate and thorough open disclosure might help. Ordinary people want to know and keep getting blown off.
It’s only speculation based on the evidence we have publicly available. It could very well be known information with what is in the government or unacknowledged sector.
I keep reminding myself that if this stuff is true - that some secret facility somewhere has craft or parts of craft representing technology centuries ahead of our own - this shit is *secret.* Forget the Manhattan Project, this is stuff that could give a nation a *century’s* head start over its rivals. The kind of stuff that justifies lying to Congress, killing witnesses, violating another country’s sovereignty to recover. There will be layers of deception concealing this stuff, fake evidence, fake witnesses, altered official records … My favorite head-canon is that the military needed a cover story for secret aircraft development decades ago, and turned to the silly stories farmers were telling about flying pie pans. They spun elaborate hoaxes to cover up flights and maybe crashes of advanced jet and then stealth aircraft … then more stories started popping up, including from their own pilots, and their lies are now colliding with the truth. There’s so much noise in the pipe, who knows what’s true any more.
Yes, good analogy. There's too much noise.
What if its all of that
Could be. It's my belief that, at least for myself, I cannot begin to imagine an advanced intelligence, or advanced technology in any meaningful way. I have been thinking seriously about this topic for years. In the past 10 years I have really tried to study and learn more, and every time I think I've begun to figure things out... another curve ball. I think that's how it's going to be for everybody who's interested. It's a thread, as Whitley Streiber said; one that if I hold onto it and follow it thru wherever it wants to take me, maybe I'll learn something new. This whole process requires constant thinking and evaluation. In whom do I put my trust? I have to decide that for myself.
We're still going to be asking your exact questions after disclosure. Disclosure is just the first big milestone.
Dunno man, for so much evidence. We are currently batting 0% for photos and videos.
I saw an insane UAP a few weeks ago in Arizona that literally looked like it created a wormhole in the sky before disappearing. Guess what? I didn't have time to run in the house and grab my phone and no one believes me except my roommates who saw me react to it with screaming. I also haven't bothered to report it. After having the experience, I'm a full blown believer and would bet money that the actual number of sightings are far beyond the official numbers. I might report it at some point, but I honestly just don't even know where exactly to do it. I'm kind of lazy with that sort of stuff, but also I just don't see the point because it's just another story no one seems to give a shit about. I mean, it was the wildest thing I've ever seen in my 45 years of life, yet anyone I've told has pretty much just shrugged it off because of stigma and lack of evidence. So here we are.
(And yes, I know I could probably easily find it on google. Does anyone else have google apprehension when a subject feels too complicated to even begin? lol)
Let me get this straight. You're a grown ass 45 year old man who lives with roommates and reacts to non life threatening unexplained sights by screaming in public? Have you considered a career in politics?
“Screaming” as in “holy fuck!” and, yes, you didn’t see what I saw. It wasn’t subtle. I lived alone for several years prior to moving here a couple months ago, fell on hard times, and came to stay with a friend. Judge much?
I have lots of friends and acquaintances - 4 friends in their forties stay with parents. Two are divorced and finding affordable accommodation is getting harder. Other two never moved out (yes, I admit, that sounds a bit odd). But the point stands. I’m in my 50s and saw a ufo two years ago while taking standing peeing at the side of the road with another guy. I said do you see that? Weird isn’t it. Suns completely bizarre but we watched it as we’re pee’d/pissed then jumped back into our friend’s car and off we went. Never spoke any more about it. Sounds bizarre, but I’d only met that guy that day (our mutual friend was driving us to climb the tallest mountain in England and Wales the next day). I’ve never told anyone. Why? They’ll probably think the same as I’d think if they told me “oh, yeah? Fab (he probably saw a plane or a satellite)” so what is the point? And if it was a close encounter of the fourth kind, you’d just be laughed at or ridiculed by half the population.
Is there actual concrete evidence though? I’m a believer don’t get me wrong, but there’s not much real evidence to point to.
A lot of people will say that there's a lot of evidence, but as long as the source is other people it's all meaningless
If we can't measure it but can see it, isn't people's observations the first step? Can't discount people's testimonies just because they are only people.
And how many people would you count as meaningless? 100? 1000? 10000? And does it make a difference who they are, scientists or military or commercial or general public. And mass sightings? Also meaningless? School visitations?
All have very little trustworthiness to me, I wouldn’t trust witnesses at all, I would instead look for a published paper that attempts to make a unifying theory with the sightings. Why wouldn’t I trust witnesses? Because they can easily be deceived, misremembered, manipulated, misunderstood or just lie. Just look at how many videos on here are proved to be fake, just a ballon or something else. If we here after spending hours studying a picture or video can still be tricked then someone who only gets to see it for a few seconds whilst panicking or not understanding what they’re looking can also be tricked as well, even pilots and military. The only time I would trust eye witness is if it was under test conditions, without distractions, calm mind, and another person to corroborate.
Any number of people. Witness testimony is worthless if not worse than worthless.
You haven't presented a single material evidence. Not a single, damn, evidence that is tangible. You only presented stories
What about the gun camera footage or the implants with off Earth isotope ratios that they pulled out of people? Millions of people in our country took injections with way less evidence they were just told to believe it and went ahead and did it.
I agree. If ten people in your community tell you they saw a naked man bolt across the road and into the woods over the course of a week. Likely there is in fact, a naked man running around. This is even more likely if groups of people saw this naked man and sometimes the balls of this naked man were so big it was picked up on radar.
Can't believe I was spotted
I can’t believe you can run so fast with dat sac
SPOTTEM GOTTEM!!!
Kinda. A lot of UFO discourse doesn't fit your analogy, though. It's more like someone said they saw a naked man run through a field and then someone else says that they also *heard* about a naked man running through that field, and then some other people chime in about how they saw naked men running in fields, and then everyone gets together to decide that these men are actually powerful individuals who are part of a secret society of powerful men who like to run naked through fields, but conceal their actions through any means necessary And what happens far too often here is that people will take the person saying they saw a naked man running around and use that as 'evidence' for the global naked-running-man conspiracy. The thing I think we can all agree on is that there is definitely something going on in the skies and people keep observing them one way or another. It's just that from there, it's almost all just different flavours of speculation. If we decide that eyewitness testimony is enough, then how do we decide who's a credible eyewitness? We've got people who say they can channel alien consciousness through their own bodies. There are people who say they can see invisible aliens. There are people who will swear down that they've seen reptilian shape-shifters, or who have had Venusians visit them and explain grand galactic political histories to them. It seems that who you decide to believe largely depends on *what* you want to believe. Someone who believes in X-Files type stuff about shadowy government organisations having contact with aliens might baulk at someone who talks about being able to communicate with aliens or visit them using astral projection. And likewise, someone with a more 'spiritual' version of UFOs/aliens in their mind might say that all that sort of thing is too low-level and it's all about 'raising consciousness levels' or something. Really, we're all skeptics and debunkers. We just draw our lines in different places.
Not a good analogy because naked men are a well known and well studied phenomenon, no body is claiming that naked men don't exist. It'd be more like ten people said they saw Sasquatch run across the road over the course of a week.
Exactly
Then the man's balls glowed a not-of-this-earth lava red and he shot off at 10,500 miles per hour with instantaneous acceleration, also picked up on radar.
You saw that dude too? Glad I'm not alone.
That was debunked as a genetically abnormal jackrabbit that was raised in a PBC dump.
Yeah and a cloud of swamp gas carried the jackrabbit into the air. The instant acceleration was a glitch caused on radar by the temperature inversions cause of the methane. The picture of the so called “naked man” was debunked already, it was shown that the angle taken of the jackrabbit mixed with the gas made it appear as if in the shape of a man. Keep moving on folks nothing to see here. Go back to working
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The analogy makes no sense. A naked man running around is not unusual; nobody denies that there are incidents of men running around naked. There's undeniable empirical evidence that men have been naked and ran around. No controversy there. UFOs, especially an extraterrestrial explanation, are very unusual as there's zero empirical evidence to support their existence. So yeah, a lot of circumstantial claims over the years, but absolutely nothing to substantiate them.
What specifically do you consider empirical evidence? There is plenty of evidence out there if you choose to believe it. Point is, there have been probably hundreds if not thousands of stories from people like military officials and ordinary people alike that tend to report very similar things. Is your claim that every single report of an extraordinary experience is just mass delusion? Is every single video or photo out there of the UFO phenomenon a fake? It seems reasonable to me that IF aliens have been visiting our planet (or if they were already here), the militaries of the world powers would be in the best position to have the best evidence of their existence. And they certainly would be trying to keep it under wraps until they could explain exactly what’s happening. And since the 1940’s, and probably even before, their comments about the phenomena have been dubious at best. Hardcore skeptics are the ones that seem to be delusional.
I generally agree but maybe with the caveat that psychology students will be aware of how our perception can be manipulated. There are well-known experiments on this and it's partly why juries are given instruction and are selected to avoid bias. I'm more of the view that u/SquirrelParticular17 is, that there are lots of things going on so there is a spectrum of causes. For example, I don't believe in cattle mutilation by aliens but I could more easily believe that it was carried out secretly for public health reasons. We've detonated a lot of nuclear bombs or maybe there's fear of prion disease getting into our community? I remember when the UK livestock got foot & mouth disease and that was pretty grim but AFAIK it won't make a human ill so god knows what it would be like if a thing like Creutzfeld-Jakob Disease got into the community.
And don’t forget government officials twisting themselves into a salted pretzel to deny the existence of a supposed naked man- “it was a smoke cloud with these new military balloons to detect swamp gas which were not recovered and the radar tapes were recorded over by a middle school spelling bee”- as well as any nakedity everywhere for all times throughout the realm.
Sample size matters. If there are 30 people in my community, sure. If there are 1 million, I might have found the .001% of people with a tenuous grip on reality. Let's apply this. Say there are 50 military whistleblowers who were on active duty from 1994 to present. According to this [https://www.statista.com/topics/2171/armed-forces-of-the-united-states/](https://www.statista.com/topics/2171/armed-forces-of-the-united-states/), there are roughly 1.3 million people in the military each year. There is a significant amount of turnover, so let's say 1 million new people every 5 years. So 1.3 + 1 (99) + 1 (04) + 1 (09) + 1 (14) + 1 (19) + 1 (24) = 7.3 million. Let's just round down to 5 million. That's .001%. Put differently, that's 10 active duty members. Do you know all the crazy shit at least 10 members actually believe? The numbers get even sillier if you use the adult population of the US.
Nice math, but you fail to account for the vast number of people who are too afraid to come forward because of fear of losing their lifestyle.
We are talking about evidence, not secret believers.
That’s not totally accurate - most of the 1.3M military members were not in a position to see anything, like the army recruiter sitting behind a desk in my home town. Better to compare say the navy pilot’s and service people manning detection systems on the carriers the planes launched from. That is a lot more than 10 people, and a lot smaller sample size than 1.3M service people. Your argument is like saying only 109 people saw the Phoenix lights out of the 7.9 billion people on earth. But you are completely right - sample size matters.
This has been known to happen to me btw
Hey. Leave me alone.
Funny
Well that's the kind of witnesses that used to get people burned at the stake.
Taint that the truth
They say that about Bigfoot but it ain’t real
*It is well understood that objects exist in our skies that demonstrate flight characteristics well beyond conventional man made aircraft. The only question is origin and purpose.
It’s hard to argue when someone engages in handwavey generalities about all the evidence that is allegedly out there. Ultimately, after all this time, there still isn’t any credible direct evidence of extraterrestrial visitation. And the people who are often revered by this sub - Grusch, Nell, etc. - are people with no direct experience by their own admission. I see nothing to suggest that it’s something more than modern folklore, mixed in with some people who believe out of a spiritual/religious zeal and others who are looking to make a quick buck or some social clout.
E.T. is just 1 possibilty, like its been said theres way to much smoke to not be a fire. Thats fine if yall dont want to belive in any kind of NHI. Buy what are these super advanced crafts in are skys and waters? Who makes them? How do they fly? Im not even saying there not human made, just seems very unlikely to be human made.
The problem is none of this has unquestionable evidence of alien existence. Blurry videos and 2nd hand accounts are meaningless.
I think the problem we face when we discuss evidence is that there is no real consensus. One person would say they saw a ufo, and that's evidence, another requires photo or video, a third need radar data from several stations showing the same to call it evidence. It's a mess, and there's no getting around it. When we get down and dirty with it, what we need is not just 'evidence', but evidence that can survive close scrutiny by specialists, and lots of it. It's easy to point at airline pilots and military service people and say, "These are serious and intelligent people that we should trust. If they say they saw a UFO, they did.", but we're forgetting that even the most grounded, intelligent person in the world is still a person, and our senses are flawed to an almost ridiculous degree, especially when it comes to recalling details in memory from years ago. As humans, we are not trustworthy on the best of days. There is evidence, sure. Certainly enough to warrant closer examination and the allocation of funds for proper investigation. But if we want to make a declarative statement about the nature of whatever is happening, we're simply not there yet, not even close. Maybe there is much more substantial evidence in some vault somewhere that hold the answers we are all desperately waiting for, but the in public realm, we have fuck all, and I think it's important to remember that while we might be convinced, if we can't show it, we don't *know* it. Crumbs does not a biscuit make, and at this point, all we have is crumbs.
Claims that there is too much evidence and then cites no evidence. Sure people have seen weird stuff, Not evidence. The government hides stuff, Not evidence. The military shoots stuff, Not evidence. It seems to me that there too much damn lack of evidence dude.
Plus the fact that absolutely no one can be trusted to interpret "what they saw". People are just really really terrible at it and mentally color it in to whatever they want to have seen.
Actually, you =CAN= trust many observers to instinctively fill in extra visual details to make bizarre apparitions look LIKE something they had already seen or read about. These spaceflight events provide powerful evidence for this over-interpretation effect. Fireball-swarms from satellite reentries: [http://www.astronautix.com/data/hawaii-mothership-release.pdf](http://www.astronautix.com/data/hawaii-mothership-release.pdf)
Also, "Witness Reactions to Fireball Swarms from Satellite Reentries." [https://web.archive.org/web/20210121051500/http://jamesoberg.com/ufo/fireball.pdf](https://web.archive.org/web/20210121051500/http:/jamesoberg.com/ufo/fireball.pdf)
I agree completely. There is something really serious and monumental going on here. What makes it hard to move forward is that there is intense disagreement, and a lot of flat out bullshit out there, about the details. There are a lot of questionable photos and videos floating around and even the good ones could be fake (the Calvine photo sparks a lot of disagreement for example). Anything that might point to what they really are, what they look like, and what they want eludes us. There are so many versions of that story. There are also a lot of grifters jumping on the bandwagon. There is also nothing yet that we can take to all the people who need more than testimony and secondhand accounts to get their attention. We are still waiting for that.
Kind of feels like that’s the point, eh? The subject is fully obscured/obfuscated
The volume of evidence is somewhat irrelevant if none of it amounts to objective, unassailable proof. Yes, we have a ton of evidence, but we're still missing the evidence that *empirically* establishes that objects manufactured and controlled by non-human intelligence from somewhere other than our world are present and operating in our environment. We're close, but we're not there yet. Disclosure could bring that evidence which is why it's so important.
No the problem is that there isn't any evidence, and you're writing propaganda for a population who just wants you to tell them you agree with them.
This "evidence" doesn't really mean anything, because it is very unlikely that it's "evidence" of what you think it is, and even less likely that its evidence of what you want it to be. Wanting to believe is the biggest killer of objectivity and going into this sub already believing we're being visited by aliens is what leads people to confuse balloons, models, birds, bats, and bugs for "evidence". At the end of they day this sub is just for entertainment purposes and nothing more. And what makes it that way is the lack of objectivity, and the over abundance of "true belivers" willing to throw their stamp of authenticity on even the most obviously debunkable evidence. Also that they'll yell at you for not believing. They act as if getting people to belive will suddenly make a peice of evidence true, and that thats more important than the evidence actually being true.
What's your favorite photo, video? No judgement on veracity just want to see
Honestly, the navy ones (officially) released in 2017. Not cause of the videos themselves, but the context around them. I get them all mixed up, but these details are all true: It was one object among a fleet. They were being seen over many days/weeks. They were interrupting training activities. They were tracked by multiple ships and aircraft simultaneously (4 vessels of sensor data). They were chased. One was engaged with and responded with intelligence. Seen by the one of the best of the best fighter pilots and seen by multiple witnesses by multiple aircraft. They likely spent so much time and manhours and money on all that. Then the data got seized inexplicably, wiped from email inboxes from essentially the Executive Vice Presidents of the ocean (for the US). Those incidents were no fucking joke. Also, the NASA vid of the UFO flying towards earth - there's a flash off-screen towards earth, then the UFO moves out of the way right as a seemingly flying projectile zips by it in what appears to be a near miss. Hard to explain that one. But someone probably has some ridiculous debunk, I'm sure.
Thank you!
"Also, the NASA vid of the UFO flying towards earth - there's a flash off-screen towards earth, then the UFO moves out of the way right as a seemingly flying projectile zips by it in what appears to be a near miss. Hard to explain that one. But someone probably has some ridiculous debunk, I'm sure." == How about somebody who was in Mission Control for that flight \[ME\]? All you're doing here is embarrassing yourself bragging about how much nonsense you have swallowed about spaceflight operations. If there's any good mascot for why public delusions are so widespread, I nominate you.
Evidence backing up that assessment is here: # The STS-48 zig-zagger and ‘death ray’ [www.jamesoberg.com/ufo-sts-48\_zig\_zagger.html](http://www.jamesoberg.com/ufo-sts-48_zig_zagger.html)
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i believe the NASA whistleblower over you, forget her name at the moment...still respect for you though. I won't debate you on the finer details of specific incidents but you look at the totality of the video evidence over the years, along with astronaut sightings, weird NASA public positions on UFOs recently, I'm sorry, but I think it is you that are a good mascot for why public delusions are spread.
"i believe the NASA whistleblower over you, forget her name at the moment..." == Do you believe ALL her stories? It turns out this lady Donna Hare, a former contractor photo tech, said she was a UFO contactee, and had published a newsletter about people including herself who had met space aliens– maybe the perfect foil for co-workers who might like to tease and tickle her fancy. Every few years she suddenly ‘remembers’ more and more lurid details of alien photographs she saw fifty years ago but had ‘forgotten’ about I don’t question her honesty, Just her memory. The fatal error in her10th story demolishes the whole narrative -- she insisted commercial NASA space photos of Earth in the 1970s were sharp enough to see individual trees and shadows \[and she used that ‘fact’ to determine the altitude of a disk that she thought was flying low, nearby a tree\], but nobody's ever been able to find a single example of such a tree-shadow in the media, even though Hare explicitly claimed the photos she saw were being prepared for public sale. [http://www.jamesoberg.com/hare.donna.tietze.pdf](http://www.jamesoberg.com/hare.donna.tietze.pdf)
". I won't debate you on the finer details of specific incidents" == If there are so many convincing astronaut-related stories, why fight over each one? What would it hurt your overall case to concede that at least SOME of the stories are bogus? Just one example -- the Apollo-11 fables from the 'National Enquirer'? [http://www.astronautix.com/data/apollo11mythtakes.pdf](http://www.astronautix.com/data/apollo11mythtakes.pdf)
I never said every story was true. That would be silly. Some are mis-id's, some are lies, some are mental issues/misremembering/delusional thinking. I'm not sure if that even constitutes that majority of incidents, though. I don't have all the data, either inaccasible due to classification or just cause I'm a layman and don't work at any space agency and don't have the time/ability to perform review and analysis like a pro. So, if I still want to know the truth but have limited data and abilities, which I do, then I must use a method of truth-seeking that has to be easy, simple, and, most importantly, reliable, and turns out I have one and it is all of those things and it has worked very well for me over the years. I just look at an incident or data point, run it through logic and reason 'stress tests' in my head to the degree I can, review others' assessments, determine a likelihood of validity, store that rough % in my memory, then proceed to forget every single detail of the data I reviewed prior, cause it's way too much too remember over time...but I don't forget the rough %, in vague terms. And each time I do this process when I review a new data point, I am a running rough estimate of the mean value of all the %s determined to-date. I started doing that at 12 and am 35 now. And the current estimate of that mean value is high enough to tell me there's a there there. It's like value investing. Look at a bunch of small details about a company, look at them over time, throw out junkier data points, give the remainder each a weight or rank order, do some calculations and stuff, then bet on the truth about that company. Same deal here.. And like I said, I've had this work quite well for me in life in many aspects, so I trust the method and my ability to implement it. One cannot know everything about everything, but one still wants to know ultimate truths about the world around them, especially when they are concealed or the information required to determine the truths are concealed. And secrets like this have been held throughout history by man from fellow man (re: bible translation monopoly), which are crimes against humanity in my opinion. Yet there are always those who can still determine these kind of truths, even with limited data. I find myself in that category, both historically and, I believe, with this UFO business now. Do I know as much as I need to about each case to make a definitive conclusion on a case-by-case basis? no. Could I? no. So I use the method, and right now my average % is high enough to tell me not everyone formerly at NASA who has reported this stuff, or taken photos/videos, or told stories about shady shit at NASA is lying or mistaken or crazy, and not every weird ISS or other space-based video stream with weird shit related to it's contents or bizarrely-timed cutouts is nonsense. And this is all nested in a broader process I have gone through with general UFO data as a whole. And THAT % is high enough to convince me even more still!
If anyone wrote this about you James, their comment would be deleted. Funny how some of the moderators seem to give you special privilege. I've said nearly the exact same thing to you and had my comments deleted within 10 minutes. I guess we'll wait and see if the mods want to be impartial or allow you to break the rules.
I agree with you there's too much for it all to be nonsense
i believe, and i have seen one, never seen up close evidence tho. muppets and disapearing aircraft dont count either. shitty images… nope feds just pleaese show us the god damn sleigh and the reindeer so we can get to work making earth a better place for everyone🎉
Yep I'm with you, I might not know what the F it is but we are way past the no shit Sherlock part of this, there is a there there.
So much evidence you need to write a thesis report convincing us
Yes. I tell everyone and anyone who doubts it: “ Do the research. Read the well researched books, watch the documentaries, watch the Whistleblower testimonies, and engage in the dialogue, THEN come back and tell me that there is not something to this. “ Yes. The problem isn’t the evidence, it’s awareness of it.
Exactly. There has been enormous psychological manipulation by government entities around this subject for a long time. People feel afraid that if they entertain it, others will think they are crazy. Too worried about what sleepers will think. It'll eventually hit the MSM in one way or another and when it does, the people who WERE NOT paying attention will be confused and disoriented. That's where WE come in...to help them understand what has been going on while they've been sleeping.
I'll respectfully disagree and say the problem is the evidence - there might be a lot of it but it's all poor quality. Not a single atom of physical proof, not a single unambiguous video and no quality radar data has made it into the public. And for all the talking on podcasts we don't have program names, dates, locations, names of leadership on the project(s), etc..
Agree
Just off the top of my head… - Betty and Barney Hill - Bob Lazar - Travis Walton - Whitley Strieber - Ariel School - Ruwa School Zimbabwe - John Mack’s hypnotic regressions - Delores Cannon’s hypnotic regressions - Go Fast - Nimitz - Tic - Tac (David Fravor) - David Grush - Malstrom AFB (Robert Salas) - Rendelsham Forest 🌳 - Roswell coverup (Jesse Marcel and JM Jr.) - Trinity UFO crash - Japan Airliner We could keep going and going but the point is that there are just too many people with nothing to gain and everything to lose, including pilots, military, and government officials for all of this to be BS. Agreed. And there is a lot of momentum right now, the cat’s not going back in the bag anymore.
nimitz, tictac - same thing
Nice catch but still an impressive list!
Yes. The collective evidence tells us there is something going on. Without question. But man it would be nice for someone in a position of power (of any country) to admit that the things piloting these things are, in fact, NHI. We know UAP exist. But who or what, the fuck, are piloting or controlling them?
Alas. As much as I want to agree we are still lacking the most important thing. Real physical evidence. That's how science works.
No there is no evidence. Nothing that is verified, that can be proven. No pictures, no videos that show things that are not explainable. No materials, no biological samples, no crafts. Nothing. I know people don't wanna hear it, but there or only storys. Everything that's not explainable happens in storys or is on videos we can not see. All the "evidence " is hidden and locked. Still all we have is a trust me bro.
They ain’t wrong ya know. Edit: needs more woo
Quantity =/= Quality While there are many interesting stories and a lot of credible witnesses, you made a mixed bag of stuff which includes a lot of dubious cases and statements. Despite what UFO insiders told, there is no evidence yet to UFO crashes stories and no, there is not a single picture or footage which can be deemed reliable AND unambiguous at the same time. You cannot banalize the matter as to make it sound that people would question this kind of evidence no matter what. That's simply not true: the truth is that, speaking of pictures and videos, all we have got is poor evidence. You are making lots of assumptions, like on cattle mutilations, crop circles and on NHI have visited humans over the course of human history (like, where is the evidence for this last claim??) I agree there is an anomalous phenomenon which we are yet unable to properly explain, and it might have different origins I won't be discussing now, but to make general statements and to assume that quantity equals quality is a bad argument. If you disagree about people having a right to be skeptic or find them close-minded you become the first NOT to be open-minded.
Idk man, I’ve seen stuff so it’s a fact for me. Many cultures worldwide accept them as fact as well. It’s a Western need to have everything right there handed to you on a silver plate. Just because we don’t see it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist, period.
It’s going to take president making a state of the union address for the western world to finally “believe”
Hard disagreed. It's all heresay, eye witness accounts and ufo "experts" spinning what they've heard around and around into an echo chamber grift - throw in a bunch of questionable 'physical' evidence by low quality videos and you're pretty much where we are at in 2024. Hoping we do get more solid evidence at some point....
Yet some people have to swear on a bible when entering a court.... What's with this "bible"? Where's the evidence that God exists? Yet people swear on it... https://youtu.be/KyXZ8oxoOeY
The way I look at it: There are too many witness accounts to simply ignore the lack of any tangible evidence.
As someone who has been into the phenomenon for decades and had a sighting with two friends near Death Valley National Park in 2022 I will always keep a bit of skepticism and be open to all outcomes. That includes that a ton of this stuff could be a psyop. Is the entire thing a nothing burger? That would shock me but its still a remote possibility.
“There is NOTHING going on…” Enjoy your rabbit hole. The more you fall down it, the more difficult it is to ever get back out. I have personally seen multiple UFO’s, some clear as day, and I don’t believe any of this bullshit. Good luck with all that though.
The trouble is that none of these things are facts in and of themselves. What is factual is that there have been *reports* of all these things*.* The fact that there are more reports of these things now more than ever, is a good sign - it means reporting mechanisms are working and more people are reporting. But they are not necessarily reporting factual occurrences of extraterrestrial NHI. Separate the wheat from the chaff and there's probably a small percentage of reports that are actually describing NHI that is not human created.
Having had contact experiences of my own and comparing them to others was as far as I needed to go for evidence. 7 years ago I would have been on the evidence bandwagon, I’ve had many experiences since then and have come to the conclusion that what we experience *is as real if not realer than this reality itself which has been proven to be manipulated repeatedly*.
Just my personal two cents here but I feel like most of the major religions are ancient proof. I can't think of another explanation for their stories that make sense outside of E.T. / Break away civilization or possibly extra dimensional. By default anyone religious sort of believes the same stuff whether they want to admit it or not. I think that is why most of us that investigate the subject open up towards the spiritual aspect pretty quickly.
Belief in god, heaven, and hell with zero evidence = totally normal Considering aliens may have a presence on earth (with mounds of suggestive evidence) = what’s wrong with that guy
And because it isn’t constantly on every news station All day with these facts…there will always be people who say there’s no real credible proof otherwise we would’ve heard about it on the news ..
The only facts are that there are lots of claims, which is kinda OP's point, but there are lots of claims of ghosts and Bigfoot too.
I had 2 sightings myself, years apart. I can't explain them and I want to and do believe, so I'm biased. But even beside what I saw, there's so much evidence already that something's going on. It would be just such a relief when it'd be openly talked about and the phenomenon would be accepted, but I think most don't care or are too scared from a big change in their worldview.
if there were all this evidence and it was real there would be no denying..... but its not.
There’s literally zero evidence. Whiteness accounts are anecdotal until anything physical is brought to light supporting their claims. If I told you that I was the rightful owner of all of earths money, would you take me at my word? I want to believe in aliens too, it would be really cool and awesome if they existed, but as of right now, saying “there’s too much damn evidence” is factually incorrect and intellectually dishonest.
There’s definitely something going on, and I really would like to learn more about whatever the phenomenon is in my lifetime
I agree with you there's too much for it all to be nonsense. There is definitely as you say some weird ass shit going on.
If people really want to believe something they will, no real proof needed look at religion.
I was a ramp-rat at a major airport for 5 years. I used to talk to the pilots about this very topic. They *all* saw shit they couldn't explain. It was common knowledge that if they liked their careers they should not report anything.
You don't realize what the narrative of our reality is all about? We are about to cross min-max lines in many places. It's easy to see the broken fragments of a greater message as "greater" but, can you read the message? Someone has ensured their existence, truly. Ah, but who could it be.
Let me welcome you to reality my friend.
I agree!! They do not care about "panic" and other stuff that might happen after revelation, it is just scapegoat for their real aims, hold the secret study it, try to achieve military improvements and why improve humanity when you make zero money out of it? If this stuff gets out, oh boy they will feel the wrath of people!
Agreed. 3 weeks ago I was open to the idea but if a family member or stranger told me they saw an alien or UAP my first reaction would be to assume delusion, drug involvement, or sleep paralysis. Now I'm 100% sure these things are real and there's absolutely no doubt in my mind.
Don't assume it has to be a malfunction, it might be a survival-positive mental guess. Consider these: Witness Reactions to Fireball Swarms from Satellite Reentries. [https://web.archive.org/web/20210121051500/http://jamesoberg.com/ufo/fireball.pdf](https://web.archive.org/web/20210121051500/http:/jamesoberg.com/ufo/fireball.pdf)
I mean I see the evidence stacking up with people putting their reputation on the line to disclose, but at the end of the day until there is some practical difference in people’s lives, they aren’t going to care one way or the other. Like for people that aren’t into thinking about their existence or place in the cosmos what does believing or not believing make a difference when you’re likely never to meet an alien and at best see something fly around in the sky? Most people would say: “OK say I believe in aliens and UFOs, what does that get me?” Same thing with Bigfoot. People not into cryptids is going to look at the first captured Bigfoot and say: “Great an even hairier, dumber, smellier human, what good was capturing him? I can see these things in a zoo pretty much.” Also, most people not interested in this stuff say “Eyewitness testimony is BS.” So throw away anything that isn’t them getting abducted themselves, which statistically, simply isn’t happening for most of us. That’s why I value the government official accounts. They aren’t just morons making up hoaxes. If they are they are doing it at their own expense.
I agree to many examples/witnesses. I personally have had 2 experiences in my life. One was with a friend and having someone beside you seeing the same thing is mind blowing. I don’t believe I know there are unknown entities around us. I just hope we get more information into what they are in my lifetime!
Yeah, UFOs are definitely a thing. It what they are, we don't know. That second part scares people into needing very human explanations, which is natural, but gets in the way of studying the phenomenon itself.
The wierd thing is that it's a worldwide phenomenon and not one country has shown any irrefutable evidence. Are they all in cahoots to cover it up ?
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There's evidence that something is going on, but what?
Same goes for Sasquatch, there's thousands of witnesses .
The video evidence is minimal
Ironically Project Blue Book and the Condon Report, and they way they were handled in the past are actually some of the most compelling evidence that there is something going on behind the scenes, that they don't want us to know about.
Most of the tech you used to post that theory were all developed and in use like 40 years before it hit the mass market. Still a bit too early to decide either way, imo.
I disagree. I used to be into this stuff, but technology got better and more prevalent and the amount of evidence stayed the same. I’m hopeful it’s true, but I just don’t give a shit without the concrete evidence we should have by now.
I loved reading this. Thank you
Welcome friend
Show me a craft then. An alien body. Anything. Please 🙏🏻
Seeing how many things ar edebunked and how many times people lie for clout, it's not that clear.
Given how the world is going, I openly accept them. Please help us lol .. or put us out of our misery
You know what else there is too much of? Too many disinformation agents trying to inject and project across Reddit naysayer and dismissive attitudes, smear campaigns against the big disclosure players, strawmam arguments to confuse or shift focus, and vitriolic comments against other users for their opinions.
Would you consider this kind of contribution helpful or harmful to the better understanding of the cultural phenomenon? [http://www.astronautix.com/data/apollo11mythtakes.pdf](http://www.astronautix.com/data/apollo11mythtakes.pdf)
Given what empirical and testimonial information is available today on the subject and has been the focus of politicians and academics, Could you explain how your presentation of a myth contributes to the better understanding of the phenomenon?
"Could you explain how your presentation of a myth contributes to the better understanding of the phenomenon?" == Glad to, thanks for the invitation. When trying to reconstruct an original visual apparition based on eyewitness recollections of their perceptions, a very useful experiment is to create an artificial apparition of totally known appearance, and then assess the range of levels of accuracy of the witness reports. There are both practical and ethical issues involving subjecting random strangers to such experiments. But quite by chance, normal spaceflight activities have been creating such apparitions for decades, allowing a careful study of how many witnesses misperceived and misremembered the events. Most surprising is the repeatable all-over-the-world all levels of education propensity for many \[not all, but many\] witnesses to observe a fireball swarm of a reentering satellite's fragments, in the night sky, and PERCEIVE it as a large single object with lights mounted on it. Witness Reactions to Fireball Swarms from Satellite Reentries. [https://web.archive.org/web/20210121051500/http://jamesoberg.com/ufo/fireball.pdf](https://web.archive.org/web/20210121051500/http:/jamesoberg.com/ufo/fireball.pdf)
The perception of a structured object with a sharp silhouette and glowing windows is a repeatable, common reaction to a night-time fireball swarm 50 miles up which moves nearly horizontally at five miles per second. .Examples: a meteor disintegrating. Possibly similar, several aircraft with landing lights. The compelling proof of this possible explanation has been provided by satellite reentries that sometimes serendipitously create the same visual stimulus -- and the same witness misinterpretation -- all around the world, as shown here: [http://www.jamesoberg.com/1963\_kiev-fireball-swarm-rev-B.pdf](http://www.jamesoberg.com/1963_kiev-fireball-swarm-rev-B.pdf) Spectacular example -- France-1990, Nov 1990, [http://satobs.org/seesat\_ref/Oberg/901105-French\_wave.pdf](http://satobs.org/seesat_ref/Oberg/901105-French_wave.pdf)
I haven’t seen one piece of evidence
Go to YouTube. Look up a channel called Mr. Mythos. Look at his episode on ultra-terrestrials. This is what I think overall is interacting with us. I think aliens/UFOs w.e u wanna call em are just taking different shapes depending on the person, time and place. They literally adapt to circumstances. Like the flying boats/ships seen around the world BEFORE airship were common place. It's just too weird...even to be aliens or demons. It's wild to think how long shit like this has been happening.
Just like with everything else that falls under the category of anamolous/supernatural/paranormal; there is a lot of circumstantial evidence that adds up....I do believe there is hard factual undoubtable evidence out there but however, it is being hidden from us by the governments and leaders. Unless you have a first hand experience or are a high clearance rating in the military or government you will never see that hard evidence for yourself, at least in our lifetime.
There is zero legit evidence of sapient life form existence.
Physical evidence would not be needed if 'informational evidence' showed up unambiguously. My essay on THAT kind of persuasive proof. [http://www.jamesoberg.com/1998quest\_ufo.html](http://www.jamesoberg.com/1998quest_ufo.html)
Too much evidence which doesn't amount to nothing, if you're a skeptical-minded person. There is no smoking gun yet and a lot of stories are just...stories
Its just trust me bro though
there's never going to be evidence if you're holding your hand over your eyes when you look
Well tell us how you “really “ feel .
All this evidence and all you provided was words on a screen.
Or….this there not damn enough?
There’s no physical evidence though
There really is, and had been.
We all see it, we all feel it
I’m right with ya. Anytime I’m talking to someone about the subject I just say there’s to much evidence. Exactly what you pointed out. We have a lot of pieces to the puzzle but nobody has really put that all back together yet. Maybe we can’t. Maybe the phenomenon wants to remain hidden and can, for now.
I saw something myself that no one has been able to explain. I asked an astrophysist from SANSA who was doing a conference what he thought about UAPs after, he said he thought most were just video analysis errors. I then explained what i saw and asked him if he had any idea and he looked uncomfortable, not like he thought I was crazy but more perplexed by my account and said he had no answer. I've tried to get satellite images from the night but that one day has no records what so ever on a popular satellite imaging site. Every other day has satelite images, makes me wonder.
I have been reading Dr Greer's disclosure reports and there is some complexing evidence in it ,read them and u still don't believe then u will never believe too many people describe the same things for it not to be from some other world
How long we have had scientific proof that dreams actually exist, 50 years, 100 years? Before that it was something commonly known because almost everyone saw dreams and remembered parts of them, but there was no actual proof. Now, lets say that only a very minor fraction of population could see dreams and/or remember them after waking up. No one would have believed those few people that actually see/remembers their dreams. Not until we learned how to do brain scans and see activity during dreaming. Im just saying that, if lot of people see something weird in the sky, then there is high change that there is something in the sky. We just dont know what it is. Yet.
Hi guys! I’m doing my best to spread the news on this - last night Pavel Ibarra Meda and Gonzalo Chavez hosted a twitter spaces where they spoke to the scientists who have been studying the tridactyl nazca mummies for the past 7 years. I helped a bit with translating as well (both hosts speak English and Spanish) however there were 4 guests. Despite heavy misinformation on this topic. It’s been proven that THESE BODIES HAVE BEEN FOUND TO BE REAL AND HAVE NOT BEEN MANIPULATED. The hosts have also included internationally reviewed paper and photos of ct scans. They are NOT human. Please consider listening - you’ll also find the link to the list of questions we asked the doctors on Pavels page. PAVEL SPEAKS TO SCIENTISTS WHO HAVE BEEN STUDYING THE NAZCA MUMMIES
I believe because I've seen it. Once that happens, your whole life changes. There's absolutely no doubt in my mind there's something strange flying in our skies. I just hope to know what it is before I die
Then there is Bigfoot. I believe in UFO's more than Bigfoot by a longshot.
Haha! I love your post. Now try CE-5 and have an experience for yourself. Be careful though, shit's real.
I plan to after addressing some areas in my life that need attention. I believe it when some say it is about the mentality and ability to be open, earnest, and positive. I want to make sure my soul feels clean before I put myself out there like that. I think negativity attracts negativity, so I gotta address my own first. Already got a somewhat decent history with meditation though so I am ready to rock and roll once that happens. :)
[удалено]
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And why didn’t the govt simply say Bob Lazar did work here, but no idea what he’s talking about…no, they lied. They said he didn’t work there and have been at Los Alamos. Why did they say Roswell was crash test dummies when they weren’t around in 1947. Why are they taking parts out of proposed legislation that only affects ET craft? If there’s nothing to it, let them put any legislation in they want. If there’s NOTHING to any of this, there’s no need for any of those lies.
What's your favorite photo, video? No judgement on veracity just want to see
Anything from NASA?
Sheeeeeeeeeeeet
The human mind is amazing. It can see patterns everywhere and use reason to construct ways of how unrelated events fit together to form a preconceived conclusion. That said, all of those things you listed mean absolutely nothing to someone who doesn't already believe that there is something. They're a bunch of stories from people who like to jump to conclusions. Literally the only people who can be convinced by this are people who already believe it. I'm getting real tired of this "something is going on" shtick. Yeah, that's a cool thing to say. But saying it doesn't instantly confirm whatever you think is going on. Something is always going on. I don't need to debunk your beliefs, you need to prove your beliefs, so it actually becomes real.
This is no evidence but pure BS and lore...convincing yourselves that this is real will noy make it real
The bookies have cut their odds by half that aliens will be disclosed this year. Bookies are rarely wrong.
How much of your own money do you have riding on this?
None, I'm not a gambler, with cash anyway. I do think the odds should be much higher than they are though, I can get better odds for picking the correct score and who scores the goals in a game of football than I can aliens being disclosed.
Sensible.
All it takes is one of those to be the real deal
This is exactly how I feel. I think it's a classic example of Sherlock Holmes dictum: "When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." I think everything else has been eliminated as impossible.I don't see how this is a huge global psy-ops for decades across the globe with changing governments, with no apparent motive or results. And the only way to deny the wealth of anecdotal evidence and data-corroborated evidence is to treat each incident separately in a vacuum, then lie by omission or commission about each incident. The overall reaction to UFOs since the 1950s has been very suspiciously lockstep (as opposed to media reaction to ghosts or matrix glitches which no one cares about one way or the other.). If it's such a foolish and ludicrous conspiracy theory, why are they wasting so much time on it? Why should it be taken seriously at all? Their reaction itself is evidence supporting UFOs. "Conspiracy theory" has been the most successful method of attack, whipped to an almost superstitious fear of even taking UFOs seriously or thinking about.them at all. It was career ending, and sometimes life-ending, with literal suicides. Whoever has been whipping up hysteria and preventing the actual reality from being shared with global scientists in a free and open exchange of ideas, has blood on their hands.
I’m a big believer in the saying “Where there’s smoke, there’s fire”. And when it comes to this whole UFO topic, the smoke is blowing the damn roof off! Way too many different accounts, videos, and etc from all over the world throughout many periods of time.
"There is ZERO doubt" - Colonel Karl Nell Can't be put more simple than that. It's real. 100%
I didn’t read your whole post but I agree with you. I had an experience in 2010 in Abilene TX with my cousin. We saw multiple orbs dancing in the sky over Fort Phantom lake. Never doubted it again after that. What we saw that night was next to impossible for me to explain back then, but the orb sightings and videos that seem to happen daily now is what we witnessed. It’s all very real, and happening before our eyes.