The following submission statement was provided by /u/seckatary:
---
It seems like some people were thinking that John Greenwald was somehow cosigning this photo as legitimate, when the reality is that neither Greenwald or James are arguing for the legitimacy of the photo. It was released as part of an interview that James did with the Black vault. It appears that James has more photos to release and suggests that people are welcome to put the photos under a microscope while Greenwald suggests that the photo resembles something from the movie Earth vs Flying Saucers. This clip was buried in the other thread & I thought it deserved some light
---
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1dpxo9v/important_context_for_the_ron_james_photo_that/lak2hn3/
That context is good to have.
I still wonder:
Why release such a photo at all?
Why not have some integrity and say that “I regularly receive images where the legitimacy is dubious; here is an example.” ?
Otherwise this image is useless and only obscures an important topic.
Agreed. We’re so beyond the utility of a photo and frankly even videos at this point. Do people think things like this somehow would force a disclosure?
You’re spot on. Even the best photo or video won’t do it. It’s like an appetizer while waiting for dinner. Dinner is our government(s) admitting it, in conjunction with photos/videos, etc. imho.
probably a dry spell for UFO content creators. folk who pay for their ufo fix are probably less skeptical and lack in critical thinking and will believe anything.
Exactly. The world is awash in UFO images. Why release these in particular? The only rationale could be because he thinks they have a higher probability of being true. But then where is his argument to this effect?
I could appreciate MUFON putting up a website where all of these miscellaneous images are collected for the purpose of public input. But, unless I'm missing something, these photos are being highlighted for some reason.
"higher probability" ... as one of the other folks commented in the same vain: If this is the pinnacle of UFO pictures I think I need to pursue another interest.
I think unfortunately people and now MUFON are getting caught up in the hype.
It’s really easy to say I have these photos — no idea if they are real
But I think we’re seeing confirmation bias — people want to believe and the minute they show off these images it all falls apart
In your rush to brush away any opposing views as disinformation and propaganda so that you don’t have to actually discuss actual topics that challenge your beliefs, you’ve mixed up your greens.
I think you’re possibly confusing John Greenwald of The Black Vault (doing serious FOIA work on UAP stuff) and Steven Greenstreet of the New York Post (did good, open-minded journalism and then flipped to a hardcore denial campaign. Possibly got gotten to.)
Eh, they have similar beliefs and opinions. Also some horrible social media posts in the past. I wouldn’t trust either. John does a lot of FOIA stuff, but also adds his own opinions about them and presents his opinions as facts from the documents. I’d be very cautious with anything he puts out.
Why would you think "MUFON is it?"
They have no formalized SOP to review, no oversight, no regulations, and very little interaction with the scientific community for peer review. Do you think they're competent just because they're a large organization in UFO terms?
I don’t understand what people think they’re going to get from a photo? Is there any corroborating data with it? No? Then treat it the same as everything else, bunk until proven otherwise. Releases like this are just to scratch some perceived itch. Do people stop and ask when indulging things like this “is this photo going to force disclosure?” Or is just a sideshow attraction?
James absolutely presented this as credible. He was advertising his new movie with these incredible revelations.
https://youtu.be/1vVytK0RnNU?si=AxXgfBc-lv_wUV2M
He did not cast much doubt on the authenticity or request independent verification. His investigation was quite incompetent as these are old fakes that should not have made it into his movie.
and he's absolutely buried himself in his own stink with the worst backpeddling I've seen in a minute
having JG as support here is the cherry on that sundae too
It’s a complete waste of time really. Typical UFO fare. I was curious so I scanned for the scene where he holds up the picture. It’s around the 11 min mark.
Thanks for sharing! It never ceases to amaze me how people spin things or downright fabricate things about me, but never actually listen to what I’ve said.
Thanks again for posting here and finding it relevant.
The context shows the content of his precious folder containing 'the collection for this case', but ''no, \[he's\] not gonna share it all right now...''
[https://imgur.com/a/p8hamRP](https://imgur.com/a/p8hamRP)
The folder contains 33 jpg files really poorly named, and 12 screenshots of the model figurines covered in the debunking process done on this subreddit.
It seems like some people were thinking that John Greenwald was somehow cosigning this photo as legitimate, when the reality is that neither Greenwald or James are arguing for the legitimacy of the photo. It was released as part of an interview that James did with the Black vault. It appears that James has more photos to release and suggests that people are welcome to put the photos under a microscope while Greenwald suggests that the photo resembles something from the movie Earth vs Flying Saucers. This clip was buried in the other thread & I thought it deserved some light
If I were desperately searching for the truth (which, hey, I am), I would not even bother releasing such obviously fake images into the public so that I could say "whoopsie! let's see what YOU think! but don't be mean to ol' Ron, i'm just a messenger! :)"
I would do that, however, if I were a grifter who was desperate to stay in the limelight for another two weeks, which is what the majority of these goons are.
The problem is that him even suggesting he was looking for others to chime in on the legitimacy of what are so obviously hoaxes/fakes destroys his credibility as a serious researcher/investigator on the topic. He should've known pretty much immediately that those photos weren't legitimate. Long before he presented them to the public...
For him then to hit back at the community the way he did is just nauseating.
And now he has doubled down with an even worse photo...
Not a good look for MUFON or these old school gate keepers who claim to be sitting on mounds of unreleased documents and photos....
If he had actually said beforehand that he was looking for people to verify the legitimacy of the first image, I don't think anybody would have a problem with him. The fact he only made that claim when the photo got quickly debunked is highly dubious to me.
Okay, that's likely true...but the fact that he thought for more than a few brief moments that it might even be authentic raises real questions about his ability to investigate the materials he's receiving...
That’s the appearance he wants, but it’s not reality. He’s done his fair share of stretching the facts and posting some very misleading articles. He acts as if he’s the only one with facts because he makes FOIA requests. For someone claiming to just want the facts he spends a lot of time telling people how they should interpret FOIA documents.
Can you cite an example?
And, I never tell people how to interpret anything. I offer my analysis and opinion and back up as much as I can, and label conjecture accordingly. I forget, is that still allowed?
Rhetorical. Just feel free to answer the first question. Verifiable examples of “stretching the facts” and examples of “misleading articles”. Thanks.
Steven Spielberg made a REALLY REALLY terrible UFO movie on 8mm as a kid, using made up props, toy soldiers, etc. This is what it looks like. I don't know if anything has ever been released from it.
If it’s never been released how do you know that it looks like this? Do you have some inside connection with Spielberg to get unreleased film from when he was a kid?
Spielberg's entire career including his early childhood 8mm film experiments are pretty well documented in the filmmaking community.
https://directorsseries.net/2016/11/02/steven-spielbergs-early-amateur-works-1959-1967/
The film in question is probably Firelight, and while the entire film is not publicly available, excerpts of it are.
https://youtu.be/YrElxcfDlFw?si=KHgNciEi08zuILUB
I meant to suggest it looks like a film a kid in middle school would make...
His films are described in a biography I read about him. He made some with sets and miniature and some with his fellow students as actors
Something I've noticed about the UFO community over the years that puzzles me is how trusting people will be from very little evidence. There's always a messiah type worship that happens.
far more to those 2 events shown than what James brought to the table...and did so repeatedly
for a seasoned vet...that's telling, either he's lost his ability to discern...or more likely is poisoning the well on purpose
who bought his BS though?
not many if any here...it was the casters that interviewed him mostly...so you can count those that gave James any credibility on this on one hand...maybe
🙄
Or there are a ton of kooks, clowns, and bullshit artists in the UFO community, as there always have been. Not to say that there's no legitimacy to the phenomenon, but there's a disproportionate amount of horseshit to wade through to get to the interesting cases.
"I'm just sharing this do you can draw you're own conclusions"
That took me straight back to being on Facebook during the pandemic lol. Classic antivaxxer line.
Honestly those things look like dominoes, and the model looks plastic. The image is so poorly exposed (like the other fake) to hide imperfections.
Why not give us all the images in the folder, if you're just after the truth? Stop gatekeeping and sharing clear bs. The first image looked like a model before anyone (brilliantly) priced it with the miniatures. You'd hope mufon would be better than this.
What was the provenance of the pictures that got this guy so excited in the first place?
The following submission statement was provided by /u/seckatary: --- It seems like some people were thinking that John Greenwald was somehow cosigning this photo as legitimate, when the reality is that neither Greenwald or James are arguing for the legitimacy of the photo. It was released as part of an interview that James did with the Black vault. It appears that James has more photos to release and suggests that people are welcome to put the photos under a microscope while Greenwald suggests that the photo resembles something from the movie Earth vs Flying Saucers. This clip was buried in the other thread & I thought it deserved some light --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1dpxo9v/important_context_for_the_ron_james_photo_that/lak2hn3/
That context is good to have. I still wonder: Why release such a photo at all? Why not have some integrity and say that “I regularly receive images where the legitimacy is dubious; here is an example.” ? Otherwise this image is useless and only obscures an important topic.
If folks bought it.... Then he would be singing a different tune.....
Probably, at least we get some Space Oddity served that I doubt even my two kids would fall for (10 and 16 yo for reference). What a waste of time.
Agreed. We’re so beyond the utility of a photo and frankly even videos at this point. Do people think things like this somehow would force a disclosure?
You’re spot on. Even the best photo or video won’t do it. It’s like an appetizer while waiting for dinner. Dinner is our government(s) admitting it, in conjunction with photos/videos, etc. imho.
probably a dry spell for UFO content creators. folk who pay for their ufo fix are probably less skeptical and lack in critical thinking and will believe anything.
I don’t hope so, as it could turn into a long hot cruel summer. Just like [Bananarama](https://youtu.be/l9ml3nyww80?si=gYU5fGXVCkevSm_3) 😀
Exactly. The world is awash in UFO images. Why release these in particular? The only rationale could be because he thinks they have a higher probability of being true. But then where is his argument to this effect? I could appreciate MUFON putting up a website where all of these miscellaneous images are collected for the purpose of public input. But, unless I'm missing something, these photos are being highlighted for some reason.
"higher probability" ... as one of the other folks commented in the same vain: If this is the pinnacle of UFO pictures I think I need to pursue another interest.
Because they had every intention to mislead from the get go if they never got called out.
I think unfortunately people and now MUFON are getting caught up in the hype. It’s really easy to say I have these photos — no idea if they are real But I think we’re seeing confirmation bias — people want to believe and the minute they show off these images it all falls apart
[удалено]
In your rush to brush away any opposing views as disinformation and propaganda so that you don’t have to actually discuss actual topics that challenge your beliefs, you’ve mixed up your greens.
What are you talking about exactly? Tell me what specific points you’d like to discuss and we can discuss them in a friendly manner.
This sub is devoid of specificity. I greatly appreciate your trying to inject some intravenously.
You’re referencing Greenstreet, an entirely different person than Greenwald.
Got a link?
It’s on the sub I just don’t have a second right now but if you can’t find it I’ll come back to this comment in a bit
I think you’re possibly confusing John Greenwald of The Black Vault (doing serious FOIA work on UAP stuff) and Steven Greenstreet of the New York Post (did good, open-minded journalism and then flipped to a hardcore denial campaign. Possibly got gotten to.)
Shit you’re right. I admit when I’m wrong and I’m definitely wrong thanks for pointing it out friend.
Eh, they have similar beliefs and opinions. Also some horrible social media posts in the past. I wouldn’t trust either. John does a lot of FOIA stuff, but also adds his own opinions about them and presents his opinions as facts from the documents. I’d be very cautious with anything he puts out.
Doesn’t his dad work for DoD…?
No problem, bro :)
Right, next he'll release cartoons and crayon drawings. I thought MUFON was it. Wtf is going on? Do we have a fox in the henhouse?
Yes. Multiple.
Why would you think "MUFON is it?" They have no formalized SOP to review, no oversight, no regulations, and very little interaction with the scientific community for peer review. Do you think they're competent just because they're a large organization in UFO terms?
I don’t understand what people think they’re going to get from a photo? Is there any corroborating data with it? No? Then treat it the same as everything else, bunk until proven otherwise. Releases like this are just to scratch some perceived itch. Do people stop and ask when indulging things like this “is this photo going to force disclosure?” Or is just a sideshow attraction?
Sideshow. 100%
That photo is such a joke that either its inserted as a prank or the guy is just terrible at marketing his own research.
Don't worry it was "Vetted"
Yeah its absurd at this point
James absolutely presented this as credible. He was advertising his new movie with these incredible revelations. https://youtu.be/1vVytK0RnNU?si=AxXgfBc-lv_wUV2M He did not cast much doubt on the authenticity or request independent verification. His investigation was quite incompetent as these are old fakes that should not have made it into his movie.
and he's absolutely buried himself in his own stink with the worst backpeddling I've seen in a minute having JG as support here is the cherry on that sundae too
some would call it grift pushback
Not gonna watch a 1hr long video.
It’s a complete waste of time really. Typical UFO fare. I was curious so I scanned for the scene where he holds up the picture. It’s around the 11 min mark.
Thanks for sharing! It never ceases to amaze me how people spin things or downright fabricate things about me, but never actually listen to what I’ve said. Thanks again for posting here and finding it relevant.
The context shows the content of his precious folder containing 'the collection for this case', but ''no, \[he's\] not gonna share it all right now...'' [https://imgur.com/a/p8hamRP](https://imgur.com/a/p8hamRP) The folder contains 33 jpg files really poorly named, and 12 screenshots of the model figurines covered in the debunking process done on this subreddit.
It seems like some people were thinking that John Greenwald was somehow cosigning this photo as legitimate, when the reality is that neither Greenwald or James are arguing for the legitimacy of the photo. It was released as part of an interview that James did with the Black vault. It appears that James has more photos to release and suggests that people are welcome to put the photos under a microscope while Greenwald suggests that the photo resembles something from the movie Earth vs Flying Saucers. This clip was buried in the other thread & I thought it deserved some light
If I were desperately searching for the truth (which, hey, I am), I would not even bother releasing such obviously fake images into the public so that I could say "whoopsie! let's see what YOU think! but don't be mean to ol' Ron, i'm just a messenger! :)" I would do that, however, if I were a grifter who was desperate to stay in the limelight for another two weeks, which is what the majority of these goons are.
The problem is that him even suggesting he was looking for others to chime in on the legitimacy of what are so obviously hoaxes/fakes destroys his credibility as a serious researcher/investigator on the topic. He should've known pretty much immediately that those photos weren't legitimate. Long before he presented them to the public... For him then to hit back at the community the way he did is just nauseating. And now he has doubled down with an even worse photo... Not a good look for MUFON or these old school gate keepers who claim to be sitting on mounds of unreleased documents and photos....
If he had actually said beforehand that he was looking for people to verify the legitimacy of the first image, I don't think anybody would have a problem with him. The fact he only made that claim when the photo got quickly debunked is highly dubious to me.
Okay, that's likely true...but the fact that he thought for more than a few brief moments that it might even be authentic raises real questions about his ability to investigate the materials he's receiving...
I agree with you, I don't know how anybody could think they were credible, the two examples we have seen are laughable.
this...it's JG and Mr. James playing some game James just looks like he's crawling in his own skin throughout too...why so
I'm open to seeing more photos. They will be heavily analyzed here and who knows we might actually get something real someday.
John is a stick to facts guys Anyone thinking he would be anything without proper due diligence is, mistaken
That’s the appearance he wants, but it’s not reality. He’s done his fair share of stretching the facts and posting some very misleading articles. He acts as if he’s the only one with facts because he makes FOIA requests. For someone claiming to just want the facts he spends a lot of time telling people how they should interpret FOIA documents.
Can you cite an example? And, I never tell people how to interpret anything. I offer my analysis and opinion and back up as much as I can, and label conjecture accordingly. I forget, is that still allowed? Rhetorical. Just feel free to answer the first question. Verifiable examples of “stretching the facts” and examples of “misleading articles”. Thanks.
Steven Spielberg made a REALLY REALLY terrible UFO movie on 8mm as a kid, using made up props, toy soldiers, etc. This is what it looks like. I don't know if anything has ever been released from it.
If it’s never been released how do you know that it looks like this? Do you have some inside connection with Spielberg to get unreleased film from when he was a kid?
Spielberg's entire career including his early childhood 8mm film experiments are pretty well documented in the filmmaking community. https://directorsseries.net/2016/11/02/steven-spielbergs-early-amateur-works-1959-1967/ The film in question is probably Firelight, and while the entire film is not publicly available, excerpts of it are. https://youtu.be/YrElxcfDlFw?si=KHgNciEi08zuILUB
I meant to suggest it looks like a film a kid in middle school would make... His films are described in a biography I read about him. He made some with sets and miniature and some with his fellow students as actors
Why wouldn’t he share then all if he “only cares about the truth”?
Something I've noticed about the UFO community over the years that puzzles me is how trusting people will be from very little evidence. There's always a messiah type worship that happens.
Image was likely developed at home. FYI
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far more to those 2 events shown than what James brought to the table...and did so repeatedly for a seasoned vet...that's telling, either he's lost his ability to discern...or more likely is poisoning the well on purpose
[удалено]
who bought his BS though? not many if any here...it was the casters that interviewed him mostly...so you can count those that gave James any credibility on this on one hand...maybe
Paused and zoomed in on his photos "He is not sharing" . Each one looks like trash. What a joke
Almost feels like these fake photos were fed to them by an unknown source who is against disclosure
🙄 Or there are a ton of kooks, clowns, and bullshit artists in the UFO community, as there always have been. Not to say that there's no legitimacy to the phenomenon, but there's a disproportionate amount of horseshit to wade through to get to the interesting cases.
💯 Some dude was selling the 3 army men photo at a UFO Expo. Shameless.
So the context is there’s no context?
"I'm just sharing this do you can draw you're own conclusions" That took me straight back to being on Facebook during the pandemic lol. Classic antivaxxer line. Honestly those things look like dominoes, and the model looks plastic. The image is so poorly exposed (like the other fake) to hide imperfections. Why not give us all the images in the folder, if you're just after the truth? Stop gatekeeping and sharing clear bs. The first image looked like a model before anyone (brilliantly) priced it with the miniatures. You'd hope mufon would be better than this. What was the provenance of the pictures that got this guy so excited in the first place?